"Democrats are throwing in the towel on collusion"

The fact that this article was posted in the WashPost. the mouthpiece of the Democratic Party establishment, makes this significant.

Once the dust settles, the Democrats and their media allies will realize that there is nothing more to this story than what Flynn has admitted to. Commentators are saying Flynn has agreed to cooperate, as if that is something new. The fact is, there was never a time when Flynn wasn’t cooperating. He has been a cooperating witness since special counsel Robert S. Mueller III’s investigation began.

The Democrats won’t admit it, but they are throwing in the towel on collusion. Their only choice now is to prop up the convoluted claim of obstruction of justice, and that could go on forever. The ordeal may be bothersome for the White House, but it won’t be fatal.

Oh and by the way, let’s reflect on what has happened in this investigation so far. Paul Manafort and Rick Gates were indicted on matters associated with foreign-agent registration and money laundering that predated any engagement they had with Trump. Flynn has pleaded guilty to a crime that occurred after the campaign was over. To be precise, none of this involves the president or his campaign. It’s all ugly and ragged, but this White House has a lot of ugly and ragged.

To quote a friend of mine, the Democrats have been spiking the football on the 40 yard line.
What will they do at TOP without their wet dream of impeaching Trump for treason?

In a related note, this poll from the bluest of blue states is revealing.

Sixty-two percent of Republicans in the poll said it’s time for a third party to rival the powers that be, compared with 59% of Democrats. Not surprisingly, the sentiment is even stronger among “independent” California voters who don’t register with a party — 72% said the two big political parties aren’t making the grade.
In all other subsets of voters — by age, ethnicity, high school or college graduates and more — just 36% or fewer think the two-party system is working. The message seems loud and clear.

[Update]
OK. This is bizarre.

House Republicans Prepare Contempt Action Against FBI, DOJ

U.S. House Republicans are drafting a contempt of Congress resolution against Deputy Attorney General Rod Rosenstein and FBI Director Christopher Wray, claiming stonewalling in producing material related to the Russia-Trump probes and other matters.

Isn't the DOJ controlled by the Trump Administration? Didn't Trump appoint the FBI director?

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53 users have voted.

Comments

dervish's picture

everyone runs for the exits. You're right, the collusion issue is dead.

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26 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

The Aspie Corner's picture

That's one thing that will never stop.

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28 users have voted.
SnappleBC's picture

I personally said all along that if they didn't make good on the claims of RussiaGate then I would forever brand them as the party of insanity -- the party willing to go to global thermonuclear war in order to cover for their corruption.

If they don't make some sort of "Russia threw the election" charge stick then that's how I will remember them for quite some time.

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23 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@SnappleBC
Parties of Insanity.
The GOP there first, but they won't be lonely.

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22 users have voted.
Steven D's picture

@SnappleBC Birtherism. Probably why Obama won in 2012. Well that and Romney was a dick.

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6 users have voted.

"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Steven D He was not only a dick. He was a terrible campaign politician.

He had the campaign charisma of a John Kerry without the integrity.

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6 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Selection_003_11.png

I believe three of them.

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29 users have voted.
Azazello's picture

@gjohnsit
Bush misled on WMD, New World Order and Lizard People ? I'm with you on the first two.

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18 users have voted.

@Azazello
It's a mathematical probability.
They just haven't visited Earth. They have better places to be.

New World Order? That depends on what that means. Same with Lizard People.

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20 users have voted.
Pricknick's picture

@gjohnsit
have irrefutable proof they haven't been here?

They just haven't visited Earth.

I think humans make a great joke. It's more than likely that we're a tourist trap on the map to the stars for more intelligent beings.

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19 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Wink's picture

@Pricknick
place with or without humans. Even better without. I can't imagine being in the neighborhood and not stopping here if for no other reason than Poland Spring water.

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9 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

riverlover's picture

@Wink def a meetup to be arranged. Three potatoes/day diet is good. Russet. Next Yukon Gold. My ulcer diet. With Pharma. Cortland? A&W or Chinese Buffet or Doug's Fish Fry.

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6 users have voted.

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Wink's picture

@riverlover
if you want to be closer to Ithaca that's fine, too. Either, or. I love Doug's, but any food will do. I'll see if StevenD wishes to come along. Anybody else in CNY? Smile

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4 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

riverlover's picture

@Pricknick or functions yet unknown. Leading with gene acquisitions? From no known agent? FMR part-time virologist here, retros are a battle. Trained in Cell biology.

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8 users have voted.

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dervish's picture

@Pricknick Heck, my wife is an alien.

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8 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

GreyWolf's picture

@gjohnsit lol, yeah, don't we all

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19 users have voted.

@gjohnsit
this is specifically about conspiracies -- presumably, in this case, a conspiracy covering up the direct evidence that aliens have, in fact, been on earth. which is something i consider slightly more likely than that an omniscient, omnipotent being created the universe out of nothing, put us on this tiny speck of dust in some random point therein, and continues to obsess over who fucks who and whether he's getting the attention he should.

i'm also a bit confused about the "medical industry invents diseases" one. i'm not sure if this refers to the idea that diseases like "restless legs syndrome" exist primarily as marketing ploys, or whether the idea is that the medical industry actually develops organic diseases -- e.g., novel viruses.

i'm conflicted about the "Bush intentionally misled," item. I've no doubt that somebody misled, but I think it's possible that Bush himself fell for whatever BS Cheney et al fed him in order to satisfy his need to invade Iraq.

as noted above by Deja, fluoride does have some negative health effects, but then, pretty much everything does. the question at hand is, is there some sort of conspiracy in play so as to facilitate the continuous poisoning of the American public? people who believe in a fluoride conspiracy aren't usually talking about spotted teeth, or even osteoporosis, they're talking about brain damage -- making Americans stupid and compliant. before the fall of the Soviet Union, it was a communist plot; after the fall of the Soviet Union, it was some sort of corporatist plot. the believers had no trouble switching gears between the two narratives. it was rather bizarre to witness.

similarly, i don't quite know what they mean by the NWO conspiracy. no, i don't think the UN has black helicopters that they will one day be deploying against the American population. yes, i do believe that the high and the mighty of finance and industry have an agenda for controlling international politics -- but is it a conspiracy when most of it is in plain sight (IMF and World Bank, for example)?

counting Iraq/WMD as a 1.0, i'd say i'm probably 1.5. i don't necessarily "believe" there was a conspiracy to assassinate JFK, but i think it's a pretty strong possibility.

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8 users have voted.

Sigh

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@UntimelyRippd I'm pretty damned sure everybody in the Bush administration with a high security clearance knew that they were creating a pretext to loot Iraq for its oil.

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4 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Bisbonian's picture

@Azazello Come on, it's obvious.

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3 users have voted.

"I see a time of seven generations, when all the colors of mankind will gather under the sacred tree of life and the whole earth will become one circle again." Crazy Horse.

Deja's picture

@gjohnsit
Too much fluoride causes dental fluorosis. While the teeth are generally more resistant to cavities/decay, they are sometimes stained all the way through the enamel - some stains are extremely white, while others are redish brown. Also, those with moderate to severe cases have pits in their enamel.

And, some scientist believe there is a link to osteoporosis, especially in those who have dental fluorosis.

Water can contain fluoride naturally, like the well water near Lubbock, Tx. (Oglala Aquifer, I believe.) That's where I got my fluorosis as a kid - and every single family member and neighbor I can remember eventually developed osteoporosis, as well.

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15 users have voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

@gjohnsit

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7 users have voted.
Wink's picture

@gjohnsit
JFK obvious conspiracy when supposed killer killed
Bush WMD duh. amazing over 50% still buy the Dubya horse$h!t
Aliens. the circumstantial evidence is everywhere
New World Order Bush 41 as much as admitted it
Roswell ufo crash when has The Gov't EVER told the truth
Gov't allowed 9/11 If not, at least ignored intel, turned a blind eye

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10 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

detroitmechworks's picture

@gjohnsit And they didn't even put down any of the Clinton ones. Put me down for believing nearly all of those, even the ones involving basements that don't exist. Smile

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16 users have voted.

You can't expect to wield Supreme Military power, just cause some corporate tosser lobbed a contract at you!

riverlover's picture

@gjohnsit I want to see who voted 6+. I could be losing the ability to synthesize. Losingbrainvolumeis strangely liberating.

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6 users have voted.

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Daenerys's picture

@gjohnsit and iffy on a couple others.

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6 users have voted.

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

SnappleBC's picture

@gjohnsit

Did WMD's exist? That is historically proven fact not subject to "belief". No, they did not. The way Bush manufactured his intelligence is also a matter of historical fact.

Aliens exist: Sure. I'm less convinced they exist here. But I'm pretty sure they exist somewhere and I wouldn't be utterly surprised if we've been paid a visit or two somewhere along the way. Call me "undecided waiting evidence" on the question of local aliens.

New World Order: If that means what I Think it means then how, exactly could you NOT believe in it? That'd be like not believing in the sun. I mean... isn't that Davos and the like happening right there in front of us?

The government controls minds with TV: Sure, and print media. That's what all those think tanks and pundits are all about, no? Oh... you meant DIRECT mind control. Nope, sorry.

The government allowed 9/11: I don't believe in that yet but I find the notion entirely plausible. I'd need more facts to come to my attention before I believed in that one though. For me, at least, it's plenty enough that I even find it plausible.

Personally I find it fascinating that the WMD one is on that list. How can anyone even begin to call that a "theory" at this point? It's akin to saying, "Do you believe in the theory that Obama was president?" Whoever put that list together is an accomplished propagandist.

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12 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

mimi's picture

@gjohnsit
Alien exists and have visited planet earth. Proof: I am here.

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6 users have voted.

"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

@gjohnsit a vaccine is a tiny dose of a fatal disease causing organism which is intended to provoke the body to develop immunity to the disease. What is implicated in autism is the aluminum, an element poisonous to humans, contained in the dose. Why aluminum, you ask? Quien sabe. Vaccines were once manufactured in the USA under strict regulation and supervision. Now, they are manufactured God only knows where, under quite possibly no regulation or supervision.

It is my opinion that JFK was indeed killed by a conspiracy lead by Allen Dulles, surely one of the most wicked men who ever lived, enabled by VP Johnson, with the Israelis as very interested onlookers. Kennedy was demanding that AIPAC, or perhaps it was the predecessor to that organization, register as the agent of a foreign govt. He also didn't appreciate the theft of nuclear materials from the USA.

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5 users have voted.

Nastarana

Daenerys's picture

@Nastarana which is supposed to not be used in them anymore. Also the flu, chickenpox and measles for example usually aren't fatal. Usually. People who can't get the vaccine for whatever reason depend on herd immunity. And it's not a live strain of the disease put into the vaccine.

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3 users have voted.

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

@Daenerys
CT-rooted analysis. the anti-vax community has for 20 years been chasing after a probable cause of vax-induced autism. should any particular such cause be shot down by research, they simply leap for another. the essential difficulty, however, is that nobody has even shown a statistical correlation to demonstrate that there is any link, causal or otherwise, between vaccination and autism. the anti-vax community simply believes such a link exists, based primarily on anecdotal inference of the most statistically naive sort.

this is similar to what I elsewhere observed about the "fluoride conspiracy". it was universally understood, by those subscribing to the theory, to be a Commie Plot. when the commies went away, but fluoridation did not, a new conspiracy needed to be found, and quite promptly and effortlessly was.

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1 user has voted.

Sigh

@UntimelyRippd you offer no explanation as to why substances known to be both poisonous to humans and known to accumulate in the body, mercury and aluminium, need to be added to vaccines at all.

I love the way you talk all around my point which is not that vaccines are or are not harmful, but that we simply do not know anymore where in the world they are being manufactured, by whom, and under what, if any, supervision and quality control. Might you care to enlighten us on those points?

I doubt I am the only person around who simply no longer believes in the integrity and benevolence of Big Pharma. And, no, that statement is not "demonizing" it merely expresses my considered opinion.

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2 users have voted.

Nastarana

@Daenerys it is likely both, as well as God only knows what else.

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1 user has voted.

Nastarana

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Nastarana The Dulles brothers. Grandfathers of the police state we currently enjoy.

Hats off as well to Lee Atwater.

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5 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

zoebear's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

Financial literacy, especially as it relates to what credit card companies are legally able to do to consumers, is not taught in schools, is probably why the history of the CIA isn't either. We can't have the public at large informed about these things, can we?

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5 users have voted.

@gjohnsit
Of course Bush lied, that's established fact.
It is impossible that alien life does not exist.
There is a new world order, but it is not a conspiracy, it is a natural outgrowth of capitalism and nation states.
The government uses television to influence us, but it is called propaganda.
Bush was told about the threat of 9/11 and intentionally ignored it. I think he wanted an excuse for the Patriot Act, but he didn't think it would be as bad as it happened, hence the "My Pet Goat" stare.
I have skeletal fluorosis.

I'd say 3 or 6, depending on your definition.

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6 users have voted.

A PROUD Hillary hater since 1993

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1 user has voted.

A PROUD Hillary hater since 1993

Cassiodorus's picture

find that the deadly peace and quiet of the Sacred Two-Party System is totally preferable than a "third party" concocted in the interests of eventual survival. And here's a song about them...

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23 users have voted.

"Earth/Gaia is maker and destroyer, not resource to be exploited or ward to be protected or nursing mother promising nourishment." - Donna Haraway

snoopydawg's picture

once the republicans got their tax cuts done, the Russian interference propaganda would go away. Poof... no need for this distraction from what the republicans had been doing while everyone was playing Russian roulette. This was created by Hillary for sure and possibly Obama after the DNC computers were hacked which was the story that they went with.
But we know that they weren't hacked, the information was leaked. And if anyone pointed out that the FBI never looked into it because the DNC wouldn't let them, we were told that we were Putin lovers and Russian bots. The other reason I've heard for this was to neuter Trump so he couldn't play nice with Putin

How is ToP going to handle this? Whoo Boy! I can't wait to see how it is. ROFL

The bigger question is that how will Rachel explain this to her followers? Another ROTFLMAO!
This is why her ratings skyrocketed after the election.

This made my day.

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30 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

snoopydawg's picture

many people were given immunity and then they weren't asked any questions.
And as the article states, Flynn was being investigated for his lobbying business and so was John Podesta. What happened to those charges? Hmm
Did anyone read the comments on this? This seems to be how ToP and others are going to handle it. Sigh.

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21 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

riverlover's picture

@snoopydawg The web is a cruel mistress.

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4 users have voted.

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SnappleBC's picture

@riverlover

Surely you remember various people posting over and over contrasts between DKOS posts of the past and ones in the 2016 primaries... oftentimes by the same people about the same candidate. Markos, for instance, had an astonishing turnaround in his opinion of Hillary Clinton.

No, when confronted with the hard evidence they will simply ignore it. Probably they'll chastise you for relitigating the primaries or somesuch.

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12 users have voted.

A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

snoopydawg's picture

OBAMA TRIED TO STALL GIS’ IRAQ WITHDRAWAL

WHILE campaigning in public for a speedy withdrawal of US troops from Iraq, Sen. Barack Obama has tried in private to persuade Iraqi leaders to delay an agreement on a draw-down of the American military presence.

While in Iraq, Obama also tried to persuade the US commanders, including Gen. David Petraeus, to suggest a “realistic withdrawal date.” They declined.

Thus, the 2010 deadline fixed by Obama is a meaningless concept, thrown in as a sop to his anti-war base.

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24 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

gulfgal98's picture

@snoopydawg tell the truth? And does Obama even know what truth means?

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26 users have voted.

"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStoptheMacedonianSignal

snoopydawg's picture

@gulfgal98

is that he thought that Reagan was a great president and then he governed like him. The economy got much worse during his tenure and of course he continued PNAC's goals in the Middle East.
How people can't see him for who he is unbelievable. It's so obvious.

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32 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

Bollox Ref's picture

@snoopydawg

Changes his suit to suit the situation. How many times has he 'changed' his name? Once, twice, I can't remember.

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13 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!

Amanda Matthews's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg
under the old Hopey-Changey Transformational guise.

And now he’s out-Clintoning the Clintons on the’speech and influence peddling’ circuit.

EDIT: aringer/a ringer

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20 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg Well, he also told the truth at the presidential debates in 2012, when he said that he and Mitt Romney shared the same views on Social Security.

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2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

thanatokephaloides's picture

@gulfgal98

Did Obama ever tell the truth? And does Obama even know what truth means?

Pilate saith unto him, What is truth?

-- Christian Scriptures, John 18:38 (KJV) source

Wink

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9 users have voted.

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

riverlover's picture

@thanatokephaloides O put the nail in Dems by not engaging.

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7 users have voted.

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mimi's picture

@gulfgal98
As much as we know what truth means ... we are all equal, you know that ...

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3 users have voted.

"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

movie buff's picture

I'm reminded of the case of the UFO cult that believed flying saucers would arrive at a certain time and place to save them from a doomed planet. But when the spacemen didn't arrive, did the cult lose faith in their leader? Did they abandon their beliefs?

No, they doubled down on their beliefs. They said the UFOs would still come, just at a later date, inadvertently making themselves one of the earliest case studies in cognitive dissonance.

Cognitive dissonance, of course, is defined as the anxiety caused by holding two conflicting ideas simultaneously. Recall that these are the same people who always insisted that all the smoke that followed the Clintons around amounted to nothing more than unhinged conspiracy theories. And yet here they are, doing the same thing. They must be chugging the Pepto Bismol right now.

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25 users have voted.

"The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum." --Noam Chomsky

riverlover's picture

@movie buff up to a bone shatter. I need a DEXA scan. Casts and I are not copacetic. Thunk. Oak stairs.

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5 users have voted.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@movie buff
They believed the world would end in 1843-44, and when both years passed without incident, the hard core doubled down om their beliefs (but gave up on dates) and eventually formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination.

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15 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

thanatokephaloides's picture

@TheOtherMaven

Sounds exactly like the Millerites They believed the world would end in 1843-44, and when both years passed without incident, the hard core doubled down om their beliefs (but gave up on dates) and eventually formed the Seventh-Day Adventist denomination.

This was just the latest iteration of a problem Christianity has faced since the days of Ignatius of Antioch (c. 35 - c. 107 CE). By the time Ignatius died, the entire generation to which Jesus belonged was clearly gone, dead, passed away; yet the world was still here, the Romans still ruled the Jews almost everywhere they existed; nothing had changed for the better and much, in fact, had changed for the worse. (The parallels to our own times are frightening!) The promise ascribed to Jesus in Matthew's Gospel (24:34) had failed to be fulfilled, at least literally. What the mainstream Christian Community generally did about this was to state that the promise had in fact been fulfilled when Titus Flavius and the Roman forces under him destroyed the Second Temple and the Pharisee-Sadducee State in 70 CE. But there were always those, like the Millerites, who insisted that only the utter end of our world, globally, could fulfill these prophecies.

This is where Adventism, in all its various shades of wild wackyness, comes from. This was the first major crisis within Christianity, and the Christians of the time never healed it properly, with predictably disastrous results.

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3 users have voted.

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

divineorder's picture

In response to my sharing this:

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18 users have voted.

A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

snoopydawg's picture

@divineorder

Excellent piece with so many links in it I'll be reading them for days. Or weeks.
I especially like these two snippets from it.

The simple truth is that it doesn’t matter who hacked the DNC or if there was even a hack at all because the recovered Clinton campaign emails and the damning revelations found inside them were all 100% real and unaltered in any meaningful way. You cannot “rig” an election by telling people the truth and exposing the uncomfortable facts about powerful people is called journalism, not “spreading propaganda.”

it simply doesn’t matter if Russia hacked the DNC; an informed public has literally no reason to care if the Podesta emails were delivered by Ivan the Terrible himself, as long as they’re real

This is the point that nobody ever talked about. Were the emails that Wikileaks released true or not? Not one person from her campaign has ever denied that Podesta wrote what he did.

I followed one link to the Hillary interview on ABC. I could imagine her tone when she said this.

"I have come to terms with the fact that a lot of people — millions and millions of people — decided they just didn't like me. Imagine what that feels like. It hurts. And it's a hard thing to accept. But there's no getting around it," she said.

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26 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

@snoopydawg
They Don’t Want To KNOW!
An actual response I’ve gotten several times from different people(including my SO) i figure they’re telling me the truth- they don’t wanna know.
People are weird.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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15 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Daenerys's picture

@Tall Bald and Ugly Keep telling them, whether or not they want to hear it.

up
1 user has voted.

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

@snoopydawg
most people, if they knew me well, wouldn't like me very much. i don't worry about it. why should they like me, when i disagree with them on so many subjects?

there's a woman i'm rather mad about. she's not interested in me. that doesn't hurt my feelings, and it doesn't make me feel anything negative towards her. she doesn't have some sort of obligation to like me just because i like her. the universe is indifferent to our sorrow, right down to and including the fact that, as Willie Nelson once observed to a journalist, gesturing out at the crowd, "90% of them aren't here with their first choice."

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14 users have voted.

Sigh

Deja's picture

@UntimelyRippd
Nothin' I Can Do about it Now

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9 users have voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

lotlizard's picture

@snoopydawg  
There is at least one member on TOP — quite casually, as a throwaway remark while apparently focusing on some quite different controversy, in this case the discussion of why a certain well-beloved TOP member might have been banned — trying to catapult the propaganda that the DNC e-mails were “doctored.”

https://www.dailykos.com/comments/1715807/68414423#comment_68414423

i’m thinking of how it’s now coming out that the so-called dnc emails leaked by wikileaks were actually doctored. how long has it taken for that to be revealed?

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10 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@divineorder Good ol' Nina--good to see she's still in business.

A very scrupulous and meticulous blogger.

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3 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Daenerys's picture

If this doesn't convince people of how useless the Dems are I don't know what will.

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19 users have voted.

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

Pricknick's picture

@Daenerys
Some will fall head over heels for him again regardless of if he plays for the demonrats.
Others like myself, have demexited for a reason.

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14 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Daenerys's picture

@Pricknick n/t

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9 users have voted.

Well-behaved women rarely make history.

riverlover's picture

@Pricknick I grew weary of the lies.Gaslighting was the afterburn (no pun intended)

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10 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

@Pricknick

no thx.

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7 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@Daenerys and since the system is completely rigged against third parties, We the sheeple have a problem with our political system.
Sure would be nice to have THAT national discussion wouldn't it.

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19 users have voted.

@Big Al
What problem?
This shit works Just Fine for Them only. Feature, no bug.

Stop These Fucking Wars

peace

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15 users have voted.

Ya got to be a Spirit, cain't be no Ghost. . .

Bollox Ref's picture

Flynn lied to the FBI, just like Martha Stewart.

The Dems are on to something,... you can just smell the cookies in the tastefully decorated kitchen.

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19 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!

Deja's picture

@Bollox Ref

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12 users have voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

riverlover's picture

@Deja or other GPS device.

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9 users have voted.

Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

lotlizard's picture

@riverlover  
from Germany.

http://www.dw.com/en/germany-bans-syrian-who-flew-to-greece-with-ankle-m...

A refugee who was fitted with an electronic ankle tag monitor following violent behavior has been barred from Germany after leaving the country. Police had dropped an investigation into whether the man posed a threat.

A man who had been fitted with an electronic ankle tag as a surveillance measure was allowed to leave Germany unhindered on a commercial flight, according to press reports.

Boarding a plane and leaving the country unhindered? This is probably not the image most people have of what an electronic ankle tag is supposed to accomplish.

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8 users have voted.
Wink's picture

@Bollox Ref
Flynn won't be doing any time in a six by nine.

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12 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Wink Unlike that black kid down the road who got caught with a nickle bag.

Or that white kid who posted a link to material the government doesn't want you knowing about.

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3 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Mueller, the good honest fair prosecutor, is still lining up his proverbial ducks. This is a common tactic of the prosecutors on Law and Order. Mueller is in the process of getting more flippers before lowering the proverbial boon on Trump. Brilliant use of lowering charges to get cooperation. So what if none of the charges against anybody has anything to do with "collusion", asking that question just means you are naive in the ways of how prosecutors work.

But I think the WaPo article is correct--the collusion angle is dead, so now Russia-gate will turn into obstruction of justice, Logan Act, jaywalking or anything to keep the faithful in line.

I would bet in less than a year, establishment democrats will claim that Putin go to Mueller.

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19 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@MrWebster

as well as Brennan, Clapper and others in the intelligence agencies because they lied about WMDs, they were part of the torture cliques and a bunch of other bad things that this country has done.
But I suppose that if Bush can be a new hero to them because he said something bad about Trump and if McCain can also be a hero to them because he voted against the ACA repeal.
This makes it okay for them to be friends with Mueller because he's going after Trump, the popular vote loser.
SMDH

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18 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

@snoopydawg One of the favorite descriptions of Maddow is that she connects the dots. Apparently when it comes to Bush, Mueller, etc., no dots are connected. Heck, in the case of Bush, democrats seemed to have forgot about his invasion of Iraq and what that wrought.

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9 users have voted.
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@MrWebster Or how he committed racist election fraud both times to get into the White House.

One would think, given their concern with racism and election rigging, that they'd remember that. No?

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3 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@snoopydawg Oh, you noticed that:

But I suppose that if Bush can be a new hero to them because he said something bad about Trump

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2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Wink's picture

@MrWebster
on Twitter say "it wasn't about collusion." Lol. "It's about obstruction of justice, blah blah blah." What will Rachel talk about now?

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7 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

@MrWebster
Mueller might really be after Hillary. Then what will the Hillbots say?

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1 user has voted.

A PROUD Hillary hater since 1993

@doh1304

with Robert Mueller is NOT identifying or prosecuting the anthrax perpetrator, thought the scientific community tried to show him where to look. What he's good at is NOT solving a crime against the American people and making it look unsolvable. So I wouldn't get my hopes up about him going after Hillary Clinton or anyone else. I wish you were right. But I doubt it.

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1 user has voted.
ggersh's picture

6 + Seth Rich was murdered for leaking the DNC info.

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15 users have voted.

“Those who don’t study history are doomed to repeat it. Yet those who DO study history are doomed to stand by helplessly while everyone else repeats it.” Unknown.

Wink's picture

@ggersh
have vanished, story long disappeared. I suspect when we find out more of the story it won't favor Her Heinous or the DNC.

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10 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. All about building progressive media. (-1.9) On Twitter @winkradio.

And McCartney is still with us.

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9 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@on the cusp

unless someone else admitted it first Smile
I know which one you and I agree on.

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9 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

orlbucfan's picture

@on the cusp Rec'd!!

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5 users have voted.

Some yahoos make me want to change species!

thanatokephaloides's picture

@orlbucfan

Yeah, and John Lennon is still dead.

As is Generalissimo Francisco Franco:

Wink

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4 users have voted.

"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

snoopydawg's picture

Some Bernie supporters sang holiday cheers to the people in line for Hillary's book signing. Smile

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17 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

zoebear's picture

@snoopydawg

I'm only sorry I missed it. I live a mile away from Vromens in Pasadena. Had I seen them, I would've joined them.

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7 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@zoebear

I'm sure it pissed a few people off. Do most people who go on a book signing tour usually charge money to the people who want their book signed? Just how much money does she need to live on? Sheesh.
Her's book tours are all sold out. She's even going to Canada in case people there can't get enough of her.

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9 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

zoebear's picture

@snoopydawg

To these gullible souls. I guess Her really needs to make a point with this. The question is, what is it?

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8 users have voted.

@zoebear When the tour was announced I checked for ticket prices and none were given. In some cases prices came out like in Toronto, prices could range up to $2,000. Her UC Davis appearance tickets ranged $25 for students and then upwards to $250. Every ticket I believe got a book also.

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7 users have voted.

@snoopydawg .

I guess Her really needs to make a point with this. The question is, what is it?

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6 users have voted.
Pariah Dog's picture

I wasn't around here at the beginning of, or during, this whole Russian thing, so I'm unclear about the consensus. I'm picking up on confusing signals and just want to clarify.

Is it the feeling here that Russia didn't interfere at all in the last election? Or that they did, but nothing will ever be done about it because meh (like Fitzmas all over again)? Or that it's a given they did because our oligarchs and their oligarchs have been screwing the entire world for ages... and stopping them is a non-starter?

Personally I believe they did and this probably wasn't the first time. I have my reasons, but I'll wait for an answer before revealing them.

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3 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

@Pariah Dog I try to read every essay and comment about Russiagate written here.
Yours is the first and only comment I have read that asserts Russia, and I assume you mean the government of Russia, attempted to influence the election.
Whatcha got?

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14 users have voted.

@on the cusp

the world is waiting.

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9 users have voted.

@irishking

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5 users have voted.
Pariah Dog's picture

@on the cusp

Well, when I first got online in '97 - yeah, I was a late bloomer - one of the first things that captured my interests was that you could talk to people pretty much anywhere in the world. This was before other countries started closing that door. And one of the first things I found was a site that was for pen pal listings. Nothing to do with SWM wants to meet.... These were just people who wanted to correspond with others.

One of the people I saw listed was a 24 yr. old guy from Russia. He was a university student studying journalism, and he wanted to correspond with native English speakers so he could practice his English and write better. Despite the vast difference in our ages I dropped him a line.

One of the reasons I contacted him in particular was that I was working on a historical novel at the time and the protagonist was from the area bordering the Black Sea. I had dug up some history of the region, but not enough to do much with. This Russian kid was actually from that very area and his family had lived there for ages.

The other reason, and it's too a long story for now, I had worked with a large number of Russian Jews in 1989 and '90, but most of them didn't speak English. One guy did and he was a bit of a strange duck, but at least he was a good translator. Some of the things they talked about intrigued me. I thought maybe this college kid could explain some of it.

Okay, all of that doesn't have much to do with the story, but that's how I met this very intelligent young man who lived in Moscow. We're friends to this day.

Somehow, owing to my description of working with these Russians, we got on the subject of Russian government. Putin was an up and comer at the time, having been named Director of the FSB, and had just announced he was running for President. My friend expressed severe reservations about him because he was "too in bed with the Mafia."

Ah! The Mafia. I explained that I'd heard whispers about a Mafia-like organization in Russia years before and has wondered about it. So this kid starts in about how Russia was being run - quite blatantly - by "the Mafia," and Putin was their man. It was "a parody" of the Democratic reforms they thought they were going to get. Meet the new boss kind of thing.

This quickly started to make me nervous and worried about this kid because, in the way of young people, he just babbled all sorts of things - including full names of these people, who was sleeping with who, and who had whom in their pocket. I mean I was getting a crash course in Russian organized crime, and he wasn't making it up. He knew several woman who were sleeping with some of the high up enforcers. I heard some details about these people that... well, they probably wouldn't want people to know.

I advised him that maybe it wasn't such a good idea to be telling me all of this because it was possible our "private" email conversations weren't as private as he thought. I grew up in the fifties and sixties and Cold War mentality was still in force. I was worried he might well just up and disappear.

Well, not that this has much to do with the story either, but my (then) husband and I actually got to meet this guy in person. He came here to study journalism at an American university for a year, attended a seminar within a hundred miles of where I live, and we drove down to have lunch with him. He is indeed a real person and exactly who and what he said he was.

Then, he did in fact disappear. I stopped hearing from him abruptly and for like ten years I couldn't find a trace of him. I wondered if, a) he used his being in an American college town to quietly slip into our society, or b) if his youthful exuberance had landed him in trouble with the sort of people you really don't want to be in trouble with. All through those years I wondered and worried about what had happened to him.

Skip ahead to a couple years ago. I found him! I found him on FB. He's now in his forties, he was still in Moscow, and employed in the media, although not journalism per se. He posted photo-journals about all these nifty celebrations that resurrect old Russian legends and festivals, and about new and fantastic business developments in Russia.

We haven't yet talked about the current state of affairs in his country, but he did send me a long and rambling message on his philosophy of life now - which amounted to "don't worry, be happy."

Then he announced that he might be incommunicado for a while because he was packing his stuff, selling his apartment and doing some traveling after which he was going back to his home town.

I don't think I'll ever get the chance to talk to him about his revelations of almost twenty years ago and what he thinks now. Mainly because there's no way I'd have such a conversation on FB or in email these days. But when this whole story about election tampering came up I sat and re-read some of that stuff and it gave me the feeling that it was plausible.

In fact, with all the news reports and whatnot, it seemed to be pretty much a given. I'm not saying that's why Herself lost, I'm saying it seemed plausible that's why anyone would have lost.

This is the first place I've seen where people seemed to think it didn't happened.

So, now it's your turn. What do you think all this is about? Smoke Screen? Does anybody trust Putin? I'm not arguing either way. I'm just trying to gather info to help me figure out exactly why this POS is in the WH and how he got there.

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3 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

snoopydawg's picture

@Pariah Dog

if Obama had only.............................

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4 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

Pariah Dog's picture

@snoopydawg

up
1 user has voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

snoopydawg's picture

up
2 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

Pariah Dog's picture

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

You said "If Obama had only..."

So I said been white.

I know, even though I don't ask, the reason I get around here from Rump voters is they had to take murrika back after all the evil that ***** Muslim did.

Maybe I missed something.

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2 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

snoopydawg's picture

@Pariah Dog

no, his race doesn't have anything to do with how I feel about his presidency. It's the things he did and didn't do that I have a big problem with.
He took people's hopes and dashed them. This is why I feel Hillary should be blaming him too for her loss. After his first term, people walked away from politics. They are probably the ones that stayed home and didn't vote. This is why I didn't.

I think that most of us don't believe that Russia had anything to do with the election because there hasn't been any proof of this. By blaming Russia and Wikileaks for hacking the DNC computers is ridiculous because some of us believe that Seth Rich gave them to Wikileaks and the further proof of that is by William Birney's (sp) showed that the information from DNC computers were leaked, not hacked. The FBI never had access to the computers and the only ones that are saying that Russia hacked them is Crowd (dang, my mind just went blank) and they are the ones saying that it was Russia. This company is a Ukraine company and anti Putin.
The idiotic Facebook ads excuse is beyond dumb. Who looks at a few ads and decides not to vote for the person they like? Besides, Zuck told congress that he didn't find any ads from Russia, but 3 months later after Obama told him what to look for, he then found them.
These are just a few reasons why I don't believe this.
This whole thing was started after Trump said "if Russia finds Hillary's emails..." That was supposed to be a joke.
One more thing, people make a big deal about Trump Jr. meeting with a Russian because she told him that she had dirt on Hillary. So what? This is how elections work.
Then we find out that the Steele dossier was funded by the DNC and Hillary's lawyers. This was the "golden showers" stuff about Trump.
It's okay for Hillary to try to find stuff on Trump, but he couldn't do the same thing?
my $.02.
You are free to believe anything you want here. We welcome opposing opinions, just do it respectfully. Notice that there is no FLAG option here? Smile

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5 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

Pariah Dog's picture

@snoopydawg

that you didn't like him because he was black. That was just my sardonic Irish humor gene poking out of its hidey hole... again.

I had high hopes for Obama too. And I heard that he was a real tough customer. I know he came into office against a congress devoted to opposing his every move, but that excuse can only go so far. IMHO he could have fought a lot harder for the people who were counting on him. And I'll never forgive him - or the Dims - for the way they folded on health care.

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3 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

TheOtherMaven's picture

@Pariah Dog

but he turned out to be the new Shoeless Joe Jackson.

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4 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@TheOtherMaven Wish I could give this a million thumbs up.

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2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pariah Dog Well, actually he didn't come into a Congress hell-bent on opposing him.

He came into a Congress with a large Democratic majority in the House and a large Democratic majority in the Senate--for 4 1/2 months, a Democratic supermajority.

The years 2009-2010 seem to be disappearing from everyone's minds, as if the Tea Party took over the House the same year Obama entered office. This is not only not the case, it's plain ridiculous to think that the American people could put a Black Democrat into the Presidency with a 65% approval rating the same year they gave landslide victories to the (sadly, largely racist) Tea Party. And it's not just about race--electing Obama was a gesture of faith in government. The idea was that he would enter the Oval Office and bring the influences ravaging the country at least partially to heel, like FDR did, and use the power of government to bind up at least some of the wounds they had inflicted on the country, like FDR did. Even Republican voters--some of them--thought Obama would do this.

The Tea Party is a constructed movement with an anti-government ideology built by people like Dick Armey and other DC politicians, but it is also a movement which ordinary people joined with sincerity, because the Tea Party represented--to them--something they actually believed. So what is the origin of the populist support for the Tea Party? A profound lack of faith in government. A sense of profound betrayal.

These two things cannot dominate the public mind at the same time. They can both exist at the same time, because America is a large and diverse place. But they cannot be the dominant political force at the same time. And they weren't. Americans didn't put the Tea Party in power at the same time they put Obama in power; they finished giving control of Congress back to the Democrats, so Obama would be able to implement his policies--an understanding not out of the reach of even the least-informed voter.

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2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal It's really scary to me how we have successfully rewritten history that isn't even a decade old.

up
2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

snoopydawg's picture

@Pariah Dog

this article breaks down the Russia-gate theory pretty well. This is what I and the others are thinking about this crap.

How Russia-gate Rationalizes Censorship

The piece showed that the Democrats’ two paid-for sources that have engendered belief in Russia-gate are at best shaky. First was former British spy Christopher Steele’s largely unverified dossier of second- and third-hand opposition research portraying Donald Trump as something of a Russian Manchurian candidate.

And the second was CrowdStrike, an anti-Putin private company, examining the DNC’s computer server to dubiously claim discovery of a Russian “hack.” In a similar examination of an alleged hack of a Ukrainian artillery app, CrowdStrike also blamed Russia but used faulty data for its report that it was later forced to rewrite. CrowdStrike was hired after the DNC refused to allow the FBI to look at the server.

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4 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

@Pariah Dog I have no reason to conjecture why Russiagate is even in the news. What I will do is this: If anybody can show specific evidence that Russia specifically influenced the election and got specific results, I will finally have reason to believe it.
Your turn.

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8 users have voted.
Pariah Dog's picture

@on the cusp

That's what I was hoping the Mueller investigation would do - reveal the truth about all of this.

I know Americans of this age aren't the sharpest pencils in the box, but it just didn't seem logical that THAT many of them would fall for the crap that came from this horse's ass. I knew he was a self-absorbed jerk decades ago. Even the thug party got pale and sweaty over the prospect of him winning. And then..... Remember I said it just seemed plausible based on what this guy told me years ago.

Now though, it looks like this too will end up being just another BIG HORNKING NEWS CYCLE that will never be resolved to anyone's satisfaction. And we're stuck with another puppet of the 1%.

I like and admire the Russian people. I grew up schooled to live in fear and suspicion of them. The more I got to know, and know about, them the more I hoped they would throw off the oppression and achieve the sort of life they've so long struggled for. In '89 it looked like they were set to do it. I was disappointed when this guy told me what he did.

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5 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

@Pariah Dog has not turned up anything prosecutable in re Russiagate. Either Mueller is a tool, a puppet of Putin's, or there just isn't anything to the whole Russiagate theory.
You are leaning towards a cover up of some sort, I am leaning towards the proposition there is nothing to cover up.
So far, there is more on my side than yours. Ironic that "there is no 'there' there" is the best evidence thus far, isn't it?
Putin is highly regarded in some countries, reviled in others. You can say that about any leader of any country.

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4 users have voted.
Pariah Dog's picture

@on the cusp

toward anything. You asked whatcha got, so I told you.

I believe I also said...

Oh yes, here it is - I'm not arguing either way. I'm just trying to gather info to help me figure out exactly why this POS is in the WH and how he got there.

thanatokephaloides just offered an answer that sounds reasonable. That's all I'm looking for.

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5 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

snoopydawg's picture

@Pariah Dog

is that he was first being investigated for his contact with Russian officials, then we heard it was about his not registering as a foreign lobbyist which comes with heavy penalties, but now he pleads guilty for lying to the FBI? Shifting goal posts here. This is why John Podesta had to step down from his company too. He also didn't register as a foreign lobbyist. And from what I've read, his contact with Russian officials was after Trump won, so what's the problem?

Both Reagan and Obama had contact with foreign governments before they were elected. I wrote about Obama up thread.
There are too many inconsistencies with this year long investigation. The FBI also funded the Steele dossier along with Hillary. This was the reason for Obama getting a warrant to wiretap Trump. On false information.

up
4 users have voted.

a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

Pariah Dog's picture

@snoopydawg

I've seen the endless MSM stories about Trump for years now. I've always thought the guy was a scumbag, crooked as a dog's hing leg, and the most unabashed case of narcissistic personality disorder I've ever seen.

He simply has no business being in the oval office. After the two Bush "elections," believing that the thugs cheated was a no-brainer for me. Maybe that's why I so easily accepted the Russian story (plus what I'd been told back when).

I'd still love to see him get nailed for something. I have no doubt he's been involved in money-laundering for various unsavory characters for a long time. Did you ever see the piece the Financial Times did on his long history of curious cash infusions and questionable real estate deals?

All of what's been said here are things I kind of heard about but didn't focus on enough. As I said, life has been a maelstrom until recently, and I just didn't have the peace of mind to follow up on things like I used to.

Thanks to all for the additional info. Now, let's figure a way to rid ourselves of this moron and his party.

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2 users have voted.

Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pariah Dog Well, for one thing--

Imagine the American people as a bunch of people stranded on a desert island. They've been stranded there for quite a while. It's not that there's no food and water there, but supplies are running low, and nobody really wants to live on the desert island anyway--they want to get back to their old lives.

Somebody comes by in a boat and promises to take them off the island and get them back to civilization. How will they react?

Now, there are mitigating factors, obviously; first, the last guy to come by in a boat and promise rescue instead picked them up, took them on a 3-hour tour, and landed them right back at the island. Then, after having robbed them of their remaining valuables, he sailed off into the sunset, saying "You really shouldn't have expected so much of me."

Second, the last guy at least looked rational and smart. His speech to the islanders was inspiring and seemed designed to draw everybody together in a common purpose. Of course, that ended up all being bullshit, but at least he was using humanitarian language to bullshit the castaways. This guy is trying to pit some of the castaways against the others. He's quite upfront about wanting to leave some people behind.

Finally, the guy's mannerisms don't exactly inspire trust.

These three factors are likely to make a portion--perhaps a sizable portion--of the castaways refuse his offer. But is it really so surprising that 25-30% of them agreed?

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1 user has voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

thanatokephaloides's picture

@Pariah Dog

This is the first place I've seen where people seemed to think it didn't happen

It (Russian meddling in the 2016 Presidential election) didn't happen, at least not at the prime cause level that Hillary Clinton and Co. would have us beLIEve it to be. "Russiagate" is a nothingburger.

As you said in an earlier Comment: "it's a given they did because our oligarchs and their oligarchs have been screwing the entire world for ages...". This level of interference is assumable, but it isn't "why this POS is in the White House".

So why is this POS in the White House?

Largely because Hillary Clinton's campaign team, acutely aware of how odious she was to large swathes of the Democratic Base, wanted to set up a walk-away election which would end in Her Coronation. So they set Donald Trump up to be the Republican candidate via the now notorious "pied piper strategy". What nobody figured on was Trump getting a significant number of votes anywhere; in reality, he won the Electoral College vote and therefore, the Presidency.

No Russian collusion required. Minor levels of collusion may have existed, but they had no impact on the final result.

And yes, Hillary Clinton still polled 3 million more votes than Donald Trump. But the way in which those votes appeared -- in large States where they made little difference in the election outcomes -- still meant the original "pied piper" plan failed. And that it's largely the fault of the Clinton campaign that Donald Trump is now President.

Bad

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"Some members of the government are now investigating opioid pain killers but they are investigating the wrong thing. Despair-masking drugs are not the problem. Despair is."
-- featheredsprite

Pluto's Republic's picture

@thanatokephaloides

…with the idea of running in that nightmarish group of Republican candidates, they could not know Trump would win. They could expect him to push the other candidates into horrible statements — and he really delivered. omg. But the Clintons did not expect Trump to win the primarys with his crude, outsider ways. They expected a much bloodied Republican politician to run against Hillary.

Hillary's campaign strategists had determined that the only way she could win the Primaries was to get rid of Sanders, who was the Democrat's designated Outsider. Her campaign calculated that once Sanders was gone, she would win the Primary and the Democrats would have no choice but to vote for Her in the General.

I think when the DNC got rid of Bernie, they still believed she would be running against a relatively sane Republican in the General. And then Trump won the GOP Primary.
The People had wanted an Outsider with new ideas. And that's what the Republican voters got. But the Democrats had failed and their Outsider lost.

It was at this point that Hillary's campaign made their fatal error. This was the decision that lost the election, and it debuted at the DNC Convention. Hillary's campaign decided to downplay all of the Issues and campaign on One Thing only: Hillary was not Donald Trump! As I've remarked many times, it was my first issue-free Presidential election.

Whenever Hillary was asked about an issue, she delivered a word salad. Whenever Trump was asked a question, he positioned himself slightly to the Left of Hillary. (And there was plenty of wide open space on Hillary's left.) The fans on both sides heard whatever they wanted to hear. The non fans who bothered to vote, voted third party or they cast a LOTE vote, or they voted to take a chance on the Outsider to bring some change to the status quo. The Outsider phenomenon was known before the general election, in part due to the Brexit vote earlier in the year. There were many people expecting this outcome. It was not hindsight; it was merely unreported.

As for the Russian Hoax (for lack of a better word), that decision was made in haste in early June. It began as a backfire against the stolen emails that would be fully released before the convention in late July. The smoke and fear from a "Russian hack" would confuse the issue and obscure the news. CrowdStrike (a Ukranian-owned, anti-Russian IT group) could see on the logs that they were downloaded in full on one occasion. They are smart enough to know the letters were downloaded at a speed that indicated a thumbdrive was used, inside DNC headquarters. But CrowdSource never discussed the forensics of the download. They buried it. It was discovered much later during independent third-party forensics.

So, unless Russian hackers flew over to the US and broke into the DNC with a thumb drive to capture the letters, they were not in possession of them at that time. Julian Assange was, however. The thumb drive was flown from DC to London by a British envoy, and delivered to the Ecuadorian embassy.

This is the evidence that can be verified.

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mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic

The thumb drive was flown from DC to London by a British envoy, and delivered to the Ecuadorian embassy. This is the evidence that can be verified.

Scary comments here.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

Pluto's Republic's picture

@mimi

Testimony of Assange.

It was reported in the press, most often in connection with the Seth Rich investigation, which is a forbidden news topic in the US.

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mimi's picture

@Pluto's Republic
to follow and to understand and to remember the news I hear or read about. It's too much for me.

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"“What difference does it make to the dead, the orphans and the homeless, whether the mad destruction is wrought under the name of totalitarianism or the holy name of liberty or democracy?” - Ghandi

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@mimi This is particularly tangled. I've gotten it wrong myself, on here, and had to be corrected.

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The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

snoopydawg's picture

@Pluto's Republic

Is this what you are referring to, Pluto?

Craig Murray says source of Hillary Clinton campaign WikiLeaks emails a 'disgusted' Democrat - Washington Times

Craig Murray, a former British ambassador to Uzbekistan and a close associate of WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange, said in the report by the Daily Mail that he flew to Washington for a clandestine handoff with one of the email sources in September.

He said he received a package in a wooded area near American University.
“Neither of [the leaks] came from the Russians,” Mr. Murray told the British newspaper. “The source had legal access to the information. The documents came from inside leaks, not hacks.”

You wrote:

It began as a backfire against the stolen emails that would be fully released before the convention in late July

I've read this too. Hillary was concerned that the general election would focus on her use of her private email server and the Comey investigation. She thought that she shouldn't have to answer any question her about this. The bots on ToP are upset with Lauer and Charlie Rose because they asked her questions about them. This is further proof of misogyny in their minds. So the biggest story during the primaries was about how she was under FBI investigation because of her private email server and they think that she shouldn't have to answer questions about it? I'm sure if it had been Trump that had done this, they would want him to be questioned about it, right? sigh

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a longtime oligarch eugenics plan is already well underway

earth is the insane asylum for the universe

Pluto's Republic's picture

@snoopydawg

….because the first leaks came from Guccifer 2 while CrowdStrike was working in DNC headquarters. Now there is some speculation that CrowdStrike invented Guccifer 2 because part of what Guccifer published was the opposition research on Donald Trump that the Clinton campaign had acquired. There is a period of time from April 15 to June 15 when everything happened. CrowdStrike was at the DNC, the hack was announced, the Russian connection was announced, Guccifer 2 took credit, all the emails written by the DNC staff during those two months was also stolen, Wikileaks claimed to be receiving them, and so much more.

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5 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@Pluto's Republic

…be sure to bookmark Adam Carter's forensic timeline. The RussiaGate nonsense was thoroughly debunked over nine months ago by the cybersecurity elite.

But then, this isn't about Russian election meddling.

This is about a dying Empire thrashing about on the world stage.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic Seth Rich was murdered--why? Seth Rich was murdered--why? Seth Rich was murdered--why?

Maybe I should post a full page of that on Facebook every day.

It's a bit like when people passed a law saying that doctors couldn't bring up the subject of abortion with their patients. I went around saying loudly ABORTION ABORTION ABORTION for some time. (I was young, but I didn't like gag orders, then or now.)

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4 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

…for my own purposes, not for publication. It made me very uncomfortable. for me, it was a dead end. like many others, I dropped it.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic I bet. I spent a fair amount of time hoping what someone here, I think Alligator Ed, uncovered was wrong.

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3 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

To the timeline?

All the answers are there.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic Are you sure they didn't expect him to win the primary? I thought that was the Pied Piper strategy, in a nutshell--make sure a crazy extremist like Trump or Cruz won the Republican primary, so Hillary would have an easy ride into the WH.

It's the general election they didn't expect him to win, or that's what I thought.

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2 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

It was my impression, but it has meaning only against the backdrop of the Clintons encouraging him to run. They seemed so unprepared. How could they be so wrong about so many things at the same time?

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pluto's Republic The fix was in...they thought. Having Trump the extremist running against Hillary wasn't for the purposes of getting Hillary the votes necessary to win the election--she already knew she could win the election by cheating. That's why they were so confident in the face of even the worst statistics, most pessimistic data (pessimistic if you wanted Hillary to win). Trump and his extremism were supposed to create a plausible narrative which would make it impossible to question the fix.

They didn't consider that there were people who were prepared to engage in countermeasures on Election Night.

That's how I see it. That's how I think it must have been, unless someone can plausibly explain to me how, after Hillary 2016 demonstrated how many different kinds of fraud they were capable of doing without legal penalty (NY was the real tell on that one), they were forced in November to accept the results of an actual vote count. So far, I've found all explanations of why Hillary could and would cheat her way to the nomination, but had no power to cheat in the general, extremely unconvincing--for one thing, she's hand in glove with the Bushes, who had no problem cheating in the general, twice. Jeb Bush bailed her campaign out financially in April 2016. Did the Bushes' loyalty to her stick at lending her access to the technology and networks of people necessary to ensuring a win--which we damned well know they have?

I just don't see how, after 2000 and 2004, and after the Democratic primary of 2016, we can believe that actual vote counts are the primary driver of who gets into office. I think the vote counts are there to make the results look plausible--and they can fiddle around with the vote counts by various means, though clearly it's not as simple as just deciding on a number and rearranging the votes to match. I don't think things are quite centralized and controlled enough for them to do that, yet.

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3 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Pluto's Republic's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

I can see how the primaries were rigged. It's not all about vote counting. I was in a rigged state and saw it up close and personal.

In national elections, I am only interested in international observers and exit polls. Hillary was in my focus only because she was the Deep State candidate. She was the candidate of the Intelligence community, So, the overlap of the fake hack into the DNC, and the investigation into that is my key interest. The leaker (independent of the fake hack) was at the DNC with CrowdStrike in April, May and June. In the end, he copied all the emails sent out by key staffers during the time CrowdStrike fixed the "hack." Those emails were the most damning. The leaker was someone everyone knew and trusted.

But I don't even care who it was. I only care that all nations in the world receive the scientific evidence and understand that Russian Election Meddling is an ongoing false flag attack against Russia by the United States. It is my obligation to humanity to stop a nuclear war on the Planet of the Apes.

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Pariah Dog's picture

@thanatokephaloides

Thank you.

Although I heard about those emails, I never took the time to read them, or any articles about what was in them. My only excuse is, 2008 - 2016 were not the best years of my life and I was distracted enough to only hit the high points.

For someone who had entered the year believing Bernie actually stood a good chance, I was dumbfounded at how things turned out. I started hearing about this Russian thing, I'd actually seen some of this stuff on FB, and remembered what my friend had said all those years ago. All that and the constant drumbeat just made it sound like a possible answer.

As I said originally, this is actually the first time I'd seen anyone saying it didn't happen.

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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pariah Dog BTW, people's vehemence on this subject is not personal, or about you; we're all just really irritated at the topic.

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5 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Pariah Dog's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal

And considering the whole debacle, it's understandable.

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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@thanatokephaloides The original Pied Piper plan was one of the doofiest things to ever be invented in campaign politics.

I point that out, rather than its venomous levels of irresponsibility, because we've often talked here about the immorality of the strategy. I'm here to tell you, as someone who has worked in campaign politics, it's the doofiest goddamned strategy anybody has ever come up with, and the fact that it wasn't laughed out of the room of extremely highly-paid political consultants is pathetic, and slightly scary.

If you gave me 2 billion dollars in earned media, there's a good chance I could convince 20-25% of the American population that the moon was actually made of cheese.

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3 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pariah Dog It has nothing to do with trusting Putin.

It has to do with no evidence being supplied to support the claims. What has been published as evidence has either been a simple reassertion of claims without basis, or data so ridiculous that it practically argues for the other side--such as claims that "the hacker" used Cyrillic characters and called himself Felix Edmundovitch (the first Soviet security chief). That would be like a CIA agent who, while involved in hacking another country's election, called himself "J Edgar Hoover" and posted some additional material in which he ruminated on the Mariners' chances this year.

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8 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Great point:

... or data so ridiculous that it practically argues for the other side--such as claims that "the hacker" used Cyrillic characters and called himself Felix Edmundovitch (the first Soviet security chief)

Or that the Russians knew that the Rust Belt states were in play and dispatched over a 1000 trolls/operators there--while every American pundit and Hillary's campaign missed it. Or that Steele could waltz into Moscow and discover state secrets about Trump literally within days (from intelligence agencies known to execute snitches). Or that generic FB issue ads not mentioning Trump or Hillary would cause instant vote changes for Trump. Or that the Russians could change votes of machines not tied into the Internet while only being on the Internet.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@MrWebster Oh God. It's worse than I thought.

I checked out fairly early, a few weeks after "Reality Winner" revealed an insider document which consisted of the NSA telling itself what it believed, again with no evidence. I wasn't really sure why the NSA objected to having the document leaked, since it contained no data--I don't just mean no raw data; I mean no data-- but I was pretty sure, after several months of receiving the same kind of nothingness, or at best hogwash, that nothing better was on the way.

I didn't know the FB scandal was about issue ads with no mention of Hillary or Trump. Agh.

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4 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal Link to FB blog on it:

https://newsroom.fb.com/news/2017/09/information-operations-update/

  1. The vast majority of ads run by these accounts didn’t specifically reference the US presidential election, voting or a particular candidate.
  2. Rather, the ads and accounts appeared to focus on amplifying divisive social and political messages across the ideological spectrum — touching on topics from LGBT matters to race issues to immigration to gun rights.
  3. About one-quarter of these ads were geographically targeted, and of those, more ran in 2015 than 2016.
  4. The behavior displayed by these accounts to amplify divisive messages was consistent with the techniques mentioned in the white paper we released in April about information operations.
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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@MrWebster Uh...in other words they're talking about FB ads on, uh, issues people disagree on? Or, at most, trollish FB ads?

WTFF, man. This is almost as bad as PropOrNot.

Or listening to Feinstein and, was it Grassley? revitalizing the glorious legacy of Joe McCarthy.

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6 users have voted.

The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Big Al's picture

@Pariah Dog governed under a political system that presents us with such choices as Clinton vs Trump, as well as a political system that mandates one person to be president of the United States.
It goes beyond what Clinton did or Trump did or who did what to the larger problem of this political system.
People have got to start accepting that this system has to be changed.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Big Al Bingo.

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The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

Pariah Dog's picture

@Big Al

I'm so tired of being forced to choose between the lesser of two pre-chosen evils. Yet my upbringing prevents me from staying home.

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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

@Pariah Dog Glenn Greenwald's position has been for awhile that the evidence presented by the government is not conclusive. But yes, it could have happened, but no proof just yet. I think enough time has passed with attempts at providing evidence by government leakers to conclude that there is not one shred of credible evidence. When "evidence" is presented, we are expected to leave even the smallest of incredulity and doubt. We are expected to blindly believe the anonymous leakers without one shred of presented evidence even after each anon revelation has been debunked such as the lie that Russians invaded Vermont's poower grid, or see following:

Yet Another Major Russia Story Falls Apart. Is Skepticism Permissible Yet?
https://theintercept.com/2017/09/28/yet-another-major-russia-story-falls...

Unless many pieces of real evidence appear from credible sources, I don't think the Russians interfered. Having worked many elections inside polling places (and outside), the reality is that the only people who can flip an election are inside the system. Democrats thoroughly believe that Russians flipped votes and did other nefarious shit.

At the time of the invasion of Iraq, the majority of Americans believed Saddam had WNDs. Two days after the invasion of Iraq, Gallup found that 70% of the American people thought the invasion was justified. Russia = Saddam's WNDs.

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Pariah Dog's picture

@MrWebster

I was not among them.

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Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons - For thou art crunchy and good with ketchup

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Pariah Dog I totally believe that. You probably wouldn't be here if you were.

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The part of John Edwards could easily be played by a burnt out light bulb.
--strollingone

The issue is patriotism. You've got to get back to your planet and stop the Commies. All it takes is a few good men.
--Q

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