About caucus99percent and issues
Good morning folks.
This is a response to a comment by TomP that was made in another essay last night. I tried to post it as a reply several times but would not post in the proper nesting so I gave up, but I think it is important so I'll post it now.
Here's Tom's comment (he's speaking about c99p):
I hope it will grow also.
There is a diversity of left opinions here, from Dems to Greenish (or create a third party) and some support Trump (which I think is error because he is a fascist).
A hundred flowers blooming.
It will be interesting to see if it stays fixated on electoral politics or moves to issues also.
Of special import to me is the last sentence that I bolded. I'd like to expound on that statement.
Caucus99percent was set up as an issues oriented site and it mostly was just that for the first year and a quarter of it's existence, up until the time of what I call The Great Migration. We did not or will not ever have an official party affiliation. Surely electoral politics was discussed but the vast majority of time and pixels was spent on issue related subjects. Most of the original 200 or so members that were here before March of this year were/are Bernie Sanders supporters, but even with that he was very rarely the topic of discussion. We tried to stick to the pressing issues that are facing all of us, especially as it pertains to the 99percent, and very rarely was Daily Kos even mentioned.
Surely I understand that electing the right politician will help with the issues before us, but my point is that this site was never fixated on electoral politics up until very recently, and hopefully someday and someday soon we can get back to the issues.
Comments
This is not an edict...
just an observation and explanation.
Good.
For a minute there I thought we only had til the 15th or something.
Seriously though, this is good to see. Electoral politics are part of the equation, not the equation. At this point it's hard to care how many Democrats are elected, when it's so hard to tell Democrats from Republicans.
All I know is that I'm through with the Democratic Party. No more free votes for anyone with a D next to their name. I don't care what a candidate calls him/herself. Where they stand on certain issues is all that matters.
Defining those issues is a worthy goal in itself.
"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"
lol - that was funny....
As long as I have been here, I still struggle with c99. Many of us cut our blog teeth on dailykos, and it is hard to transition.
I love the freedom at c99 to speak my mind and explore solutions that involve third party, not voting, and voting for what we all see as the enemy - the GOP. I also love the civility c99 offers and fosters. All any of us can ever know is what we think is right for us. I don't want to be told what to say or think, and in return, I am more than happy to give the same latitude and respect back.
Last but not least, I am glad to have lost my dependence on dailykos. There was a time when it was different than it is today. It has been like watching a good friend slip away. I don't want to hate dk or the people there. I don't want to feel sorry for them, mock them, beat them, or be like them in any way. I don't want to return there and get caught up in the wars; and as newbies come into c99 and feel a need to discover and denounce their self-imposed captivity, I understand the need and wish for all parties concerned that the purge would end. It has a way of bringing us all back there in one way or another.
c99 is about issues. I am so glad the Anti-Capitalist Meetup joined us, the photography tutorials and Resilience group took the initiative to form here, and others joined Jay Raye and Robyn in sharing their passions with us. GG series on neoliberalism was a gem and nobody can complete with Hecate's writing skills and creativity. Joe and gjohnsits news essays aggregate and bring us information that we probably wouldn't ever see in our travels in the tubz. I am grateful to all of them, and new groups and new topics are welcome. We've often commented about the lack of coverage given to the environment, evening greens excepted, and how we would like to see someone or a group of someone's take it on. The one thing c99 isn't is prescriptive. No matter one's interest, c99 is usually a good place to share it.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
The Reason Why the c99% Overlords Didn't Issue an Edict
Charlie BrownJohnny the Conqueroo knows that even if he wanted to kick the ball,Lucywe (the loyal readers of this blog) would make it exceedingly difficult for him to do so!A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
I seem to recall threats of a palace revolution in
days of yore being met with counter-threats of massive dosesof Disco music. Just a word to the wise, ya know.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Great comment, dk!
Your comment does a terrific job of summarizing my own feelings about caucus99percent.
I am particularly happy that you have highlighted something that I would like to see more of here at c99 and that is one or more people writing on environmental issues. Those of us who were here from the beginning wanted to develop a site where we could have in depth writing and discussion about the big issues facing us as living beings. Certainly the biggest among those issues is the environment, particularly with climate change upon us.
The Resilience group has done a wonderful job of creating a library documenting various ways that we individuals can make ourselves more resilient in the face of climate change. And the Anti-Capitalist group shows us why we can no longer afford to continue to live under this economic system. It would be wonderful if we had a Climate/Environmental group here to write regularly about environmental issues.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
If life ever settles down a bit
I'd like to do more writing on public transit issues -- I think it was Bruce McF over at TOP that did a great job on highlighting what was going on with transit in this country, and also his Sunday Train series. I can't really live up to his standard, but I'd like to do my best.
If you see Bruce, invite him here.
He's a good guy, very smart and good politics.
Bruce is
already a member here. Hasn't had anything to say yet, but he's here.
Glad about that.
Thanks for the clarification, JtC! Also,
from Joe's excellent (Admin) Meta Essay #2,
Well put, IMHO.
Hey, Everyone have a nice Memorial Day!
Mollie
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
SOSD Rescues Available For Adoption Or Sponsorship
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
The blending of issues and politicians discussions
...... are an occupational hazard of this trade, and in no means the fault of anyone here.
It also doesn't help matters that this boy Moulitsas keeps muddying these very waters, calling fascist positions progressive ones and vice-versa; this impacts everything we're trying to accomplish here, but is not under the control of anyone here. Likewise, Hillary and Donald Ducker. All of this, including the Great Migration, occurred because Bernie Sanders dared take up the cause of the 99% and issue-advocate for our interests (how dare he! /s).
What we have here works, JtC. No need a'tall to fix it. It's working for the 99% and will continue doing so. Once we get the 2016 Erection, er, Election (no matter who wins the 99% get fucked) past us, we'll see more "pure" issues discussions. But during an election cycle, it becomes impossible to separate the issues from what's going on, as an election is (or at least should be) an issues-driven event.
By the way, please accept my most effusive thanks for NOT making this an edict!
Sean
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
i don't care if kos stands on his head and spits wooden nickels
... it's just not that important.
when was the last time you were out in real life public and people were abuzz at markos' latest pronouncement? most of your fellow americans have no idea who this moulitsas guy is and could care less about what he has to say. if you run around in public vehemently denouncing some truly minor figure in the scheme of things, that nobody has heard of, they will mostly find you irrelevant, too.
markos is a legend on his own site. it's ok. as they say, it's his site and he gets to be the omnipotent kos as long as the people there will put up with it.
on this site, markos' latest pronouncement makes no more nevermind than it does in any other place in the real world - unless you make it important.
some people here seem to accord what markos thinks and says a great deal of deference. it's a waste of time.
Please cut me some Slack, Joe.
I live in Colorado Springs, Colorado, which fact may well stain my observations with unusual colors. Do please remember that a typical local around here still refuses to support The Chump because he's too much of a leftist. We've actually got folks sporting Scott Walker bumperstickers, for Cat's sake! And the Conspiracy Theory is strong indeed with these ones, so strong that they go a'shopping for conspiracy fodder -- something Markos supplies at a rate best expressed in hectare-meters (or acre-feet) per hour. Oh, that reminds me: I need to see how much conspiracy fodder is present in Rufus and Chocolate's litter pan.
I, too, must remember how such things color my perceptions.
Nonetheless, I still feel that c99p is "Working Quite Well Thank You" in serving the needs of the 99%, of whom I am very much part. Once the election is behind us, especially, issues will take their rightful precedence again.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
heh...
i didn't mean to be harsh, i just think that kos and his website get far more attention than their place in the scheme of things warrants.
as jtc said, we are not issuing edicts, but we are trying to encourage folks to leave the blog wars behind.
Come on joe, be reasonable. As long as folks do the macarena
when they mention top and post the video, they should be able to mention top as often as they wish :=)
Enjoy your weekend, mate,
Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.
Shall I do a YouTube study of the macarena?
I never learned the dance. Is that the ticket/cost of entry? or exit?
Mid-long weekend Summer dance, but it's hot, never below 25 last night (non-c people, that's currently 71 out, 77 in my bedroom. AC was never in the plan for me. Ventilation for radon and outside air every 20/60 min, 24/7/366 (leap year!).
Big dead oak off driveway, at least a slot cut big enough to pass through by automobile. Big Trucks would be a negatory. More cleanup required. There is a particular soil type down there, can't recall the name, may still have to book w/pix written in the 1960's. Poor soil, squibby is best description. Side slope, driveway crossing. Poor drainage (squibby) we placed culverts under driveway to keep water cross-flowing downhill. Then the two poverty-style trailers above were removed, probably without whatever septic systems were there. New house construction uncovered an artesian well, and inadvertently uncapped it, increasing downhill constant water trickle through the woods. My trees started sliding downhill, not an act that makes any sense to a tree. So they fall, entire surface root mass coming up and over. A large white pine last month, finally tipped and fell into the road, between my and neighbor's mailboxes. Some samaritan cut off the top, removing it from the road. That entire area, over 2 acres of moving trees, has some impressive widowmakers (the big leaners, hung up in other tall trees). Very dangerous cutting conditions. Unpredictable falls. At least now with cell communication, I could stand within seeing with phone ready to hit 911. Husband cleared the drive pre-cell. Emerald ash borer is probably here locally. There are many ash, might as well take them all down. I may conceive (with no funds) clear-cutting that entire area, not done since probably around 1800, to give an area full sun exposure for crops. Surface water---right?
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Morning riverlover. wow, that stand does sound dangerous. Trust
a scientist to grasp the entire process that is the 2-acre slide. It makes sense to clear-cut it, except for one thought that crossed my mind as I visualized your description. Would the slope's degeneration be accelerated? It might make sense to get a forester's opinion. Unless you already have researched it and know what to plant that would stabilize the slope given the water issue. Those widowmakers may mean you'd want to go into a partnership with a contractor to cut it all down.
Stabilizing a slope: now there's an issue I can get behind :=)
Here's an instructional clip on how to do the macarena :=)
When one of us got busted talking with food in our mouth at the supper table, we'd hop off the chair and do the macarena in penance :=) And get critiqued by the family! A lot of laughs - and kids with table manners. Over the years, the macarena got :abbreviated:" Now that the kids are grown, we do a little chair dance and wriggle our arms around a bit :=) And we still laugh.
Enjoy your day, my friend,
Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.
that's true, but for those who happened to have read
that site for years, it's seems to make a difference. I take your advice. I will make myself a 12 step program to get offline. I'll see how it goes. I must work.
https://www.euronews.com/
Mimi
Don't go offline! I think you're taking this way more personally than other people are. Please don't do that.
I get that you posted an essay about that little bastard. So have others. A lot of others! Don't beat yourself up! I've commented about him and his farce of a site, and I'll be damned if I'm going to apologize for it.
That said, you and I can both agree that this little corner of calm was created for a specific purpose. It's purpose is laid out here in JtC's essay, and the new user essays. I'm cool with that, and can understand why it was posted.
Imagine if you opened your house to a refugee, and they kept shitting on the floor. Sure, they've been traumatized, and you understood that for a while, but becoming a toilet is not what you had in mind for your house, so you ask that they please stop.
C99 creators aren't trying to make you, or me, or anyone else feel chastised or "wrong." They understand we're in withdrawal and have some weird PTSD. (I swear I never imagined it could possibly be a thing, but it is for some, and not for others.) But, they'd just appreciate if we (me included) quit shitting on the floor. And, if Kos is anything, it's certainly shit - a steaming pile of it, flies and all.
So, rather than leaving or going offline, can you send me a private message if you need to vent about the little turd? I'll even give you my cell number and you can call or text, but during work I'm not allowed to use my phone - only the special pets at work are allowed to do that.
Don't you dare leave, because we love you here!
you are so kind, but the kos diary was an "accident"
I have seldom made more than some little snarky comments about Markos here and really not that often.
That I posted this piece yesterday happened off the cuff, because I went through stuff just hours before and it was so fitting and playing into what I read in that diary of Markos. I just blew up. And if it had not so much comments and reactions I would delete it. The whole thing is not worth it. Joe said it and it's true.
I don't need to vent over dailykos or kos any longer. Really the site is pretty much dead til the elections are over. And who knows by then who is still writing over there.
I have a lot of reasons to have something similar to PTSD myself and it's private. Same is true for my son. We both don't like "PTSD" talk and want to forget about it. It's related to racial issues. Unfortunately they are online a lot. So that's why I want to leave often.
I just made a remark somewhere else, if at all, I needed a therapist, who is capable to understand me. I don't write or talk about it online and I will not talk via messages either. Thanks for your kind offer though. You are a sweetheart ♥
Thank You.
https://www.euronews.com/
It was a righteous rant
And I understand, but sometimes I see self deprecating comments, and it breaks my heart. I think, 'if only she saw herself as we do'
I'm sorry you faced shit, and you and your son are facing it as well.
Love ya, lady!
I don't want to pull an "obama" on you, but you know what
he would say to your last line...
https://www.euronews.com/
Um, nooo, what would Obama say?
Let me be clear? He says that like some people say 'like' or 'know wut I'm sayin'?'
Amiright?
You nailed it, Joe! Having said that,
Sean, hopefully you know that anybody who lives in the same town as 'Lily Strader's People,' is a friend of mine!
Speaking of Lily . . .
[Warning: This is a lovely and touching video slideshow; however, the little Italian Greyhound, Lily, had some facial disfigurement due to facial cancer--to which she later succumbed.]
A Tribute: 'Lily, Keeping The Promise Alive,' National Mill Dog Rescue
[Lily a Hero for Mill Dogs.mov, National Mill Dog Rescue, YouTube]
Mollie
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Too funny, JtC, "This is not an edict" :=) Man, we like that
about you. Indeed, more on the issues, less on the horse race, and zero on past sites. w00t!
"Lead on, MacDuff!"
Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.
I think
in an election year, electoral politics will dominate regardless, and this is the most unique election year of my lifetime. I have never seen anything quite like what is happening this year. That said, I prefer to focus on issues, and will be happy when the election is over. In the short run, though, the biggest issue we face is finding a way to reclaim our so-called democracy from the wealthy and multinational business interests that control it, for until we do, no progress can be made on many critical issues such as climate change, income inequality, civil rights, etc. etc. etc.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Not only issues
but a whole platform for discussing the way power, society, and personal choice work.
Perhaps one possibility is to have some aspect of the site organized around these key issues.
That being said, I would like much better for the debate about those issues in a discussion of the ideology that grounds the way we view issues and make decisions.
Peace and love be with you, reader.
Some aspect or the dominant aspect?
Hi, all. I'm back from RL duties, though I'd poked my head in over the past few weeks to see what was happening here.
Aardvark, you suggest "some aspect of the site" be organized around key issues. Why not most -- say, 99% -- of the site?
JtC is right that this site a year ago had managed to get past its members' initial TOP-withdrawal (we all had it to some degree) and largely avoided the specific political campaigns before the Great Migration. We have many more individuals and voices here now, withdrawing gradually from TOP. That gradual separation's to be expected, but it's been 2.5 months since the Ides of March, and it's time to get back to the basics, the essentials.
Yeah, this is a major election season, and we would do well to devote some bit of attention to examine how (or more appropriately, whether) we can effect change through the existing political channels. But we'd only want to effect change on issues, not personalities, anyway, right? What are those issues? What do we think of them? How would we propose to remedy the problems that exist in those areas? What alternative(s) would we want to see? When we have come to conclusions about those things, the political dimension of how we get it done will become clearer all by itself. So will the practical dimensions we'll need to look into in our Resilience series. And TOP, a place now that has all but abandoned such questions, will not figure in that at all and could be ignored. Wouldn't that be a breath of fresh air?
I profoundly hope we can start conceiving the ways our new numbers of participants could make headway on the issues whose importance drew us here, in focused analyses and programs debated in dedicated corners of the site or in general discussions, and that the horse-race would be but a small corner, and the TOP deathwatch would be the teensiest: on the significance scale perhaps somewhere near where we'd place the woodenness of conservative humor.
We have work to do, and this site could be the channel to achieve that if we do not falter with distractions.
Sorry to be so harsh, and I'm not really picking on you, Aardvark, but I hate to see us strive to a low level of meaningfulness when we could meet a high one. Just my $0.02.
Exactly...
very well said dance.
Hear, Hear, Dance! ;-) EOM
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
as the kids say, w00t!
well said!
Excellent Comment
... and it's great to see you - among so many others - who really know how to persuasively express themselves.
A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma
It is election time :)
I'm already getting a feel for the various corners and dimly lit pub tables of this fine establishment.
I'm looking forward to reading and hearing more about Election Reform. Okay, I'm a bit selfish about that topic having recently been introduced to registration fraud on a very close and personal level.
I like that there's a wealth of information here. People with all sorts of experiences and knowledge. I will use this place not only as a community but as a tool to better improve and empower the next step of this journey. Because lawwwwd almighty we're all going to need some advice, guidance and help to get through this.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
thanks, JtC
I agree that the issues are the core of this site...
Many of the new folks are reveling in the freedom of the format, IMHO. It's really NICE to be able to say what you think about the election without being shamed to oblivion.
Trying to to my best to get back to it with my OT's... but occasionally it is fun to laugh at the election. It will be hard as more and more folks drift in and want to just say what they weren't ALLOWED to say.
Observation is spot on, and will try to get back to writing about other topics again. Thanks for the reality check.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
This post was not only about electoral politics...
there's one more subtle inference there, if you catch my drift.
Point taken.
And suddenly I want to organize another meetup to help build our community.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Thanks, Johnny.
I've been enjoying the variety of topics and haven't felt like it's electoral politics too much. Of course Bernie and Hillary come up now and then.
I would rather see essays on Bernie and Hillary than on Kos and TOP, that's for sure.
The Great Migration - I like it!
PS. IMHO, hecate's Open Thread is front page material.
hecate's OTs are always front page worthy...
and so are many others, but we have a long standing and unwritten rule that OTs don't go the front page, mainly because the comments stray from the subject.
Thank you for the answer, JtC. nt
may be we could change and not stray from the subject
because they are some of the best writings that this site has to offer and gives the site a very own character that's worth to be front paged.
Rules are there to be broken... I heard somewhere.
https://www.euronews.com/
That would be a contradiction in terms since Open
Threads specifically to provide room to roam.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
Oh and O...
I don't mean that there is too much electoral politics discussed here, I was trying to expound on a possible assumption about what c99p was about in the past.
Yes! That's why I am here.
One of the first comments directed to my first "Diary" at TOP, was of the tone: WTF are you going on about?
As a scientist, one of the most pressing issues for our very existence is Global Climate Change. During the next few decades the stress (social as well as physical) on us will build at an astonishing rate. I think I have some insight to provide. But to do so, I need to lay a proper foundation (into my mind as well as into an accessible bit of cyberspace) to understand how to create solutions.
That foundation needs to be stated in accessible terms and cannot be accomplished "in 25 words or less." So, when challenged at TOP I tried to explain, but you can guess the result. JtC has been kind enough to not send me packing.
So, challenge any assertion I state (if it is of interest to you), participate if you've a mind to, otherwise I will continue doing what I do, and we shall see if anything comes of the effort.
I think I remember that diary, Rip.
It was a bit esoteric for the moderately mentally enabled (raises hand).
It had something to do with scalar vectors in non-euclidian reference frame, right? (I did mention I was moderately mental, right?)
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Yep, sometimes
I get a bit esoteric, well maybe more than sometimes. This works better IRL, at least my students did well, mostly because I am never afraid to scrap my notes and pick up the thread where they felt comfortable. I think this medium makes it difficult because some of us communicate better with tone of voice and social cues than with words alone.
Relativity is esoteric primarily because it is unfamiliar to most people. I sometimes forget that most people didn't start reading hard science fiction in the 1950s, and contemplating home built models of n-dimensional structures soon after. So with a half century of this it is kind of "part of me" in a fundamental way. The only other person I have known to have a similar childhood was the son of a colleague. Almost all of our chance encounters would be initiated by him asking me a question. He was autistic and his father could never keep up with his interests. We lost a great mind the day he was run down by a drunk driver.
I see playing physics the way some see playing a musical instrument. One person can watch and grok the process while another needs to practice, practice, practice to get it.
McClosky didn't know the half of it.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
In any event,
The elections (primary and GE) will end in 6 months so we'll need to have lots more to talk about. We do discuss issues, some, now, so I think it'll evolve.
I can't take six more months man.
Heh...
a couple of months after the next one will start up.
I wonder if I should be happy about it or totally frustrated
may be it will be the last election that at least pretends to be a democratic election, you never know.
https://www.euronews.com/
As I said above.....
.....occupational hazard. We c99ers take it in our stride.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Neither can I.
All the talk on this site about
politics and a blog war with /
gossip about dailykos is why I've
been spending more and more
of my time exploring that big
internet out there.
Just not interested in most of
what participants at this site are
posting and commenting about.
Only connect. - E.M. Forster
What are you interested in?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm with you, Big Al!!!
Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.
The mother of all issues, in my opinion
Is the need for fair, publicly financed, transparent elections and a way to adequately inform the electorate. This primary is giving us a big insight into this issue that could be very useful after it's all done.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Actually that is an important issue to discuss however
I'd extend that to discussing whether focusing on elections is the right way to go or not and whether this representative system can be reformed to provide a satisfactory level of democracy.
So ya, that's a good issue to discuss that we have before on here.
I think you're right
And this particular election with its obvious fraud, corruption and voter suppression is forcing a lot of people to ask that question.
I really don't see malice so much as selfishness
All the problems seem to come back to the influence of money. There was a great post by Bernie on facebook today to the effect we have a catch22. If you don't have money the PTB don't listen to you. If the PTB don't listen to you you don't vote. If you don't vote the PTB are free to pander to those who do - the people with money. his has gone on for decades and delivered us Trump as a leading candidate to hold the codes for the nuclear bombs.
It has been a slow shift that many of us saw as inevitable since I first got to this country in 1980. My fear is that we can't fix this the easy way as the PTB are so willing to shoot an put folks in prison. It has always been this way, so that only leaves the hard way which means a lot of death, pain and bloodshed. And no one wants that so we vote for warhawks like HRC. It is all so human and inevitable.
But the poison at rock bottom is money and the power necessary to get it and keep it. Not for any nefarious mad fanatic reason - the left will also need money and to wield the power necessary to get it and keep it. It is just how the world is.
What is new this time around is the role of corporations. They did not exist before 1600 or so. Now they are so big their gross sales rival nations GDP, they currently have more lawyers writing legislation than any nation state, they do not have term limits which only boosts the dependence of politicians on cash flashing lobbyists as once termed out said politician will need a job and the new politician will be green to the wiles of the legislative process, and these corporations now move cash across international borders and take it out of circulation.
Money has to flow. That is the initial reason we have the stuff, so we can make exchanges with more options. Does Apple still have more cash sitting idle than the feds? They don't want to pay tax on it, so it sits offshore.
The fix is simple. Take back control of the cash - I don't much care how. In times of war the government can do unimaginable things. A lot of those things are unimaginably bad, but they don't have to be. Corporations hate taxes and regulation and government for a reason.
And yes - make voting mandatory.
I think party politics is pretty irrelevant beside these issues. Unless of course you don't want to do it the hard way. Bernie is the smart way, Trump is the hard way on steroids and Hillary is the hard way like a slow moving train wreck.
"If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back" - Regina Brett
The other thing that is new is the internet
It remains the wild-card in determining whether the next New Deal favors the oligarchs, or the 99%.
I'm trying to decide whether it's worth spending a few hundred dollars to set up a website called votersremorse.com, where people who already voted for HRC in this primary can check off the reasons why they wish they hadn't.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
It is just a toy
Sure - you could ask everyone with wifi wtf, but in the end it is just a tool of communication, same as blowing air through your meat a million years ago. This time it is different because we are running out of planet. The stakes are higher this time.
It won't be long and the internet will get controlled. It already is by the same old influence of selfishness. Wherever we go, there we are, filtering and burying what is possible with our own assumptions. C99P is a brave and worthy venture.
"If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back" - Regina Brett
Voters' remorse
I like your idea a lot. If there is any chance that Bernie can change the minds of the superdelegates, this could be another argument he can use, especially if there is some hard data.
Hi there, Muddy Boots! It's real nice to see you again :=)
Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.
Dead Presidents
Are a pain in the neck. Really nothing more than a time saving convenience for trading what we have for what we need.
If you look at Washington, Oregon and California these states have slowly been taking charge of their own destiny. Not sure when the fed became semi persona non grata. But I find the average democrat hates the federal government only slightly less than the average rightwinger.
Citizens United is the problem.
The funny thing is that CU is THE PROBLEM!
To overturn it we need a 60 or greater vote in Congress. The other option is to find a problem (unconstitutional) with CU and send it back to the SCOTUS and they can then deem it unconstitutional and throw it out.
Unfortunately, we need a Democratic Senate or left-leaning SCOTUS majority to do it. SO down-ticket candidates are REALLY IMPORTANT going into 2018 and 2020!
"YOU must be the change you wish to see in the world." ~ Mahatma Gandhi
It would be unfair to make it mandatory without
removing all of the obstacles.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
You are right
we really need the obstacles.
Nah. Mandatory eliminates obstacles as you are listed automatically. Affiliation is optional.
"If we all threw our problems in a pile and saw everyone else's, we'd grab ours back" - Regina Brett
Unless you're planning to spill tanker carloads of human blood,
most of it gushing from the broken corpses of civilian bystanders, you're not going to have any reform without electoral reform.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
If voting changed anything,
they'd make it illegal. I'm not with ya on that.
Clever little aphorisms do not an argument make.
If you have an alternative to either:
A. Electoral reform
or
B. Blood-fountained uprising,
you are welcome to elucidate. In anticipation of such elucidation, I will preemptively label your approach BigAlinating, and I will preemptively aphorise:
"If BigAlinating changed anything, they wouldn't allow it."
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I have a few alternatives, or, at least,
I have a few ideas that could serve as the beginnings of discussions that could produce alternatives.
I know, I know--that sounds so incredibly lame when compared to "I've got the answer, right here, in my left hand!"
But I see a couple of directions we could go if we wanted to build something that could challenge the establishment, or grow something new inside its old, decaying systems.
However--here's some caveats, and this is why I haven't started these discussions:
I can see already that these alternatives would require trust, persistent communities, & a brave willingness to experiment. This means they would also require a pretty large and persistent commitment of time, a moderate-to-large and persistent commitment of labor, and probably some money. At least some of this work and some of this community-building would have to happen IRL--probably a lot of it. And once we succeeded--if we did--we'd be met with resistance. I can't tell if that resistance would come in the form of infiltration, outright harassment, or worse, but you don't take the Big Money's candy away without it getting pissed--assuming it notices you.
In other words, such alternatives would require a larger commitment and a different kind of organizing than a purely online community can provide--which is NOT TO SAY that the work of caucus would not remain incredibly important. We've all seen what happens when the lines of communication (media) are corrupted. We will always need alternative channels of communication.
People in general have been exhausted and demoralized for a long time. This is why a number of people are concerned with trying to steer the Sanders movement so that it outlives its current focus--it's the first thing that has countered that demoralization and breathed some life into resistance movements since Occupy, and it's currently reaching and involving more people than Occupy did. The trick is to keep it from dying, imploding, or exploding at the Convention, no matter what Sanders does or doesn't do.
How this relates to my alternatives: nobody who is exhausted and demoralized has the energy to do the kind of work I'm thinking about.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm not sure why its trying to clean up a corrupt and
inadequate political system or a bloody revolution. Seems to me there's plenty in between. I agree, it was a throw out saying but it was meant to convey my pov on the representative system. To me you're saying our only choice is to reform this rigged system and I disagree, all I'm saying. No need for insults, didn't mean to make my comment sound like one.
Yeah, I regret putting the "little" in the subject of
that comment, it made it snarkier and more dismissive than I intended.
I first heard that line at a Utah Phillips concert -- the same time I first heard, "I don't know why we bother with laws -- good people don't need them and bad people don't obey them." They're amusing and even thought-provoking, but they aren't fundamental truths.
The reason I don't see an alternative to electoral reform (or bloody revolution), is that 99% of all the effective power in this society is vested in:
A. The financial sector
B. The corporate sector
C. The political sector
The political sector is the only one that can exercise actual physical violence on the populace. Any imminently successful attempt to significantly challenge or resist the power of the financial and/or corporate sectors will be met with physical violence, exercised on their behalf by the political sector -- unless we can control the political sector.
The labor movement in this country didn't win a goddamned thing until it won the Democratic party.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
There are some other things we can try
But frankly, none of them is going to work without some serious IRL face-to-face community building. They also require a level of work, commitment, and imagination greater than an electoral race. And trust, and willingness to experiment, and a lack of cynicism (though not a lack of skepticism.)
Most of the alternatives that aren't carloads of human blood or elections require real, strong communities. And not to diss our connections here, the kinds of communities we need in a struggle like this one require more than *just* pixels. Which is not to diminish the importance, the very real importance, of a good-faith communications network.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Corruption is the issue
that impacts our ability to take action on all other issues. It plays out in electoral ways and non-electoral ways (usually things like police abuse, mass warrantless surveillance, the economic assault on time and community, etc.)
If we're going to discuss issues and dispense with the electoral, that begs the question of whether we're also going to dispense with organizing around legislation (for or against). We can:
1)Pay attention to legislation/laws/Supreme Court decisions, and mobilize for/against them
or
2)Throw such things after elections down the "this is a load of bullshit" political toilet of history
If we do the first, that begs the question of "how do we expect to influence laws/legislation/Supreme Court decisions without influencing politicians and how do we expect to influence them without influencing elections?"
If we do the second, that begs two questions: 1)"What are we going to do instead?" and 2)"What do we do when the laws we're ignoring come down on our heads?"
Ultimately, if we want to have any impact on anything, we have to deal with the question of power. As far as I can see, the dichotomy we're working with here (electoral vs non-electoral, elections vs issues, working within the system vs working outside it) doesn't produce many interesting answers to that question.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Hi CSTS
I am not sure I understand what you meant in your last paragraph. So instead, I will post my opinion on effecting change and that opinion has not changed for me in the last four to five years. I am of the firm belief that lasting change comes as a result of social movements. And then the politicians follow the social movement. This is particularly true the higher up in government we go. Politicians, by their very nature, are conservative guardians of the status quo. This is partly due to the need to raise money for a politician to be elected and to be re-elected. It is also due to lobbying and the revolving door that rewards people in the political arena after they have left.
What we are seeing right now is a developing social movement that started with Occupy and has been given a national voice by Bernie Sanders. We must be very close to that critical mass of turning things around in this country because the establishment is fighting back with every dirty trick in the book. But until we get there, the idea of better elected representatives en mass is not possible. What we do see is simply a case of a few good people who were able to overcome the establishment, but most people who get elected have been groomed upward through the system. I wish I could believe that every good person who ran would be elected, but the sad fact is the system is stacked against them.
I wrote this as I am trying to get dinner going, so I hope this makes sense.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Well, let me try to explain what I mean via example--
Right now, for instance, we have a bonafide people's movement that has coalesced around Bernie Sanders. It has many issues that concern it: climate change, war, predatory capitalism, political corruption, and others. Sanders' willingness to say some things that are verboten by the current political paradigm essentially popped the cork out of the bottle and the genie--temporarily--escaped. Or, to put it another way, there was a lot of pressure building up and Sanders has banged a hole in the dam--and water's pouring through.
I can tell this is a real movement that could persist by the way people are acting. They're eating together. They're creating art and music (without being told to). They're organizing events (without being told to). They're talking across boundaries that have been solid walls for a long time (this has to do with the fact that it's not only a real people's movement, but a symptom of political realignment). They have their own stories, and are even developing their own legends and mythology associated with the movement that aren't derived from the mainstream press. They are creating their own symbolism for the movement. All of these things are good signs. The best sign of all is the number of people who say "I don't care what Bernie Sanders does, I'm not going to vote for Hillary Clinton." The reason that's the best sign of all has little to do with #BernieOrBust per se, and a lot more to do with the fact that many people do not perceive Bernie as their reason for being in the movement--even though he was the focus that brought them out and brought them together. They see him instead as a much-loved or well-liked spokesperson.
However, the fact that Bernie Sanders is the focal point brings danger and difficulty to the movement, because despite the many people who don't perceive Bernie as their reason for being there, there are also many who almost certainly do. So if Bernie disappears into the woodwork, or tries to make the case for Hillary Clinton, some people will be lost. Either they will drift away as soon as he disappears, or leave because he tried to lead them to Hillary, or some of them may follow him to Hillary while others go off in a huff because he endorses her--all of these things would diminish the movement's numbers and focus. In a worst case scenario, it could end the movement.
Under these conditions, the electoral vs non-electoral binary opposition is singularly unhelpful, because we have a larger-than-electoral movement struggling to be born from an electoral campaign. It's already spawned some persistent electoral spin-offs, like the New Congress movement, or whatever it's called. But it's clear that there's far more energy in this movement than can be taken up with elections. This is a movement that wants to create entirely new forms, beginning, I think, with the media. Cenk Uygur, for instance (whom I pray nightly is a sincere man and not a second Markos Moulitsas or Rachel Maddow) has correctly assessed that this wave is building, and is trying to ride it to success for himself and TYT.
So what I'm trying to say is that AT THIS MOMENT, the quarrel over whether to focus electorally or non-electorally has never been more unhelpful. You might as well say "Do we want to focus on the mother's health or the health of the fetus?" two months into a pregnancy.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
This, my friend...
needs to be an essay, for real.
Oh! Well, all right--
I'll get it up tomorrow!
Thanks for giving me the nudge.
I also have to give my "Hillary Clinton Is A Vortex Down Which People Pour Their Moral and Political Capital" a whirl.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-UZ2uE18ws]
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thank you!
I believe you and I are swimming in the same stream politically and I am glad that you clarified it for me. And yes, I think you should write an essay about it. So thank you for explaining your position to me.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
You're welcome, GG!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
excellent points, csts...
the movement has a few potential single points of failure. (for example, a distributed community connected solely by the internet will fail if the internet fails.) it's important to identify those points of failure and develop backup systems.
i hope you will, as jtc suggests, turn this into an essay so that we can get folks thinking about it.
Sure thing, I'll work on it tomorrow
It will be more useful, perhaps, than the "Hillary is a Vortex" essay.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think you and I are on the same page.
This totally makes sense.
In fact, some of it dovetails with what I said in my other comment.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
First economic power, then political. I don't mean massive
wealth, but moderate self-sufficiency. "An army fights/marches on its stomach." Part of that can be obtained by being satisfied with getting by, but communities are key. Cadres, in all meanings of the word help too. That is all face-to-face & neighborhoods.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
I think behind the intense fixation on the current elections
are the issues at stake we fear we could lose in the future. I admit that my diary yesterday has unleashed a lot of shouting and in hindsight I wouldn't post it again.
I feel that we might be crushed one day to the point we even can't talk about issues close to our heart, after the elections. The amount of ranting going on here is a sign of deep frustration over lots of electoral procedures and other political and socio-economic issues. I expect all of it will be tuned down in pitch after the elections. I can't wait for the day that I don't care any more about elections and don't care anymore about "politics" and "news" and can have a normal ignorant life and tend to my own business.
So, better times will be coming, JtC.
https://www.euronews.com/
Folks...
I think some are misinterpreting the cause of this essay. I'm not critiquing the amount of discussion of electoral politics here, I understand what's at stake in this election. This is an observation and an explanation of why c99p was created and what was discussed here before the Great Migration. It is meant to enlighten those that may be wondering. Plus there is one other little subtle pointer there if you wish to know.
sniff... guilty as charged ...
won't mention
dailykos never ever again. Officially a deadsubjectitem in my books now.https://www.euronews.com/
Double sniff. No mention of:
A. Humor
B. Music
C. Snark
D. Curmudgeonly commentary
E. Art
Ohhhh, I am so alone!
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