End of the Road

So, I was reading John Perr’s diary entitled “Let's Not Party like it’s 1984,” and it provoked me into writing something—things regarding the behavior of lapsed progressives. I’m sure you’ll be able to name a few others off the top of your head.

In the diary, Perr describes the 1984 Democratic Primary, how he was angry that his preferred candidate (Gary Hart) didn't get the nomination, and his regret for sitting out the election just because his guy didn't win. He has determined to make sure to always support the Democratic nominee.

Sen. Sanders can make his pitch for why he can still win the nomination and, failing to do so, should press the case for his platform and the future of a movement his campaign believes is bigger than him.

Well, of course. Bernie’s movement isn't just going to disappear after this election, regardless of the results. And don’t expect this movement to be used to elect more centrists. God, wouldn't that be a travesty if it was used to help the Third Way.

Whoever becomes the nominee of the Democratic Party (which, if hasn’t been clear by now, I believe will and should be Hillary Clinton), the Democratic Party must articulate a New American Bargain” that offers a positive vision for the future and not just payback for the past and present (Emphasis mine).

Hey, great idea! Although this sounds like something that should be done by people who have vision rather than New Democrats.

The stakes are too great to risk losing what we’ve gained over the past seven-plus years. And no matter what our differences, we have a much better chance together to break the stranglehold of money in politics and public policy.

Only the Hero of Time may wield the Master Sword and defeat the evil Ganondorf… I mean, yes, everything is at stake, unless we ban together and vote for, her Ladyship, die Große Hillary von Clinton des Hauses Mauer Straße!

The venom and the vitriol, the quest for purity, and the misplaced pride has to stop.

No, it does not. Let the show go on! I think the Dems could do with a fine dose of purity. There's no misplaced pride here. I don't feel particularly proud. Do you?

This diary reminds me of this article from by Mike Conrad from Salon.com:

… New Dems they’re trying to tap into longstanding progressive self-doubt, warning Democrats who basically agree with the progressives that acting on their conviction would ultimately do harm to causes they care about.

This, at it’s most basic, is what folks on TOS want liberals to do. They do this by bandying about terms like “pragmatist,” “incrementalism,” and “she can get things done;” to lower the expectations of progressives and get them to carry water for the Third Way.

Whoever accepts the nomination in Philadelphia will have my enthusiastic support.

But only if they have a D before their name, right? You would vote for the most hawkish, authoritarian asshole as long as they were a Democrat, amirite?

I don’t understand the enthusiasm of supporting your least favorite candidate, much less the one you didn't support in the first place? I mean, if Bernie is the nominee, then your support is appreciated, but don't expect me to look upon you without any amount of suspicion from here on out, o fair-weathered friend o’ mine.

I can understand Perr’s position. He feels that this is the best that liberals and progressives can muster. He and his ilk have reached the end of their road. He is free to vote for whomever he wants, even if the only candidates he votes fore are Third Way adherents. That's his prerogative. However, it would be nice if John Perr—and others like him—would stop sending out invitations to his pity party.

The same Salon article states:

[New Democrats are] on a mission to lock Democrats into serving high finance, even at the expense of winning elections. The New Dems are not acting out of concern that progressive populist Democrats will lose. They don’t want liberals to win.

They’ve certainly stretched their insidious plans forward enough to trick liberals into supporting Third Way candidates. And they don't care if they win elections or not. That would mean that, to the elite and professional class, elections don't mean a damn thing to them. It would seem that New Dems would rather have a Republican in the White House than Bernie Sanders.

What would happen if a centrist, Wall Street bootlicker loses the GE? Will the powers that be within the Democratic Party be like, “Hmm, you know what? Maybe we should stop running the usual, pandering, neoliberal candidates, and start running populists who represent real change in and stand for racial and economic justice.” Not on your fucking life! They’ll blame it on Bernie supporters, and by extension, millennials. You can be sure that this group will be the establishment Democratic Party’s new punching bag, much like Nader is.

I get that progressives eventually give up with change; they grow weary. They've reached the end of the road. They have no desire to travel further on the next stretch of rough terrain. They embrace the system as it is, not as they would like it to be. In fairness, if you live in a red state, I can see how you would see the Democratic Party as a man dying of thirst in the desert sees water. I guess it helps to be a blue-state citizen to remain stalwart throughout the fracas that is our political system and not succumb to despair.

Anyways, lapsed progressives shouldn't shouldn't tell actual progressives how incremental change is the only way to get things done. Don’t try to sell out progressive values in order to “get things done” and call it pragmatism. That's not pragmatism; that's pessimism.

And who the hell wants to party like it's 1984? I’d rather party like it’s 1999, biotch!

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RuralLiberal's picture

They can go straight to hell if they think I'll support, or vote for, H.R. Clinton. Not gonna happen!

Embracing reality is sometimes painful and depressing, but it's better than living in self-imposed blissful ignorance.

I'd rather work for the change that we all know is necessary, even if it's sometimes difficult.

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"Stand Up! Keep Fighting!" - Paul Wellstone

It takes a Democrat to screw a Democrat. I'm in Michigan. Home of the red GOP everything including House, Senate, courts, Gov, SOS and dog catcher. It sucks, really bad. They are fucking up and destroying everything. Against that backdrop, I am still determined to not put another Clinton in the White House. In fact, some people are so pissed off at the tone of the Democratic Party, the big fuck you to the left again that they have turned from Bernie or Bust to a declared war on Hillary designed to make her lose by pledging to vote for Trump. A double tap with their vote if you will. I am this close to buying in. It takes a Democrat to screw a Democrat.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

featheredsprite's picture

is on the ballot in Michigan, it might be a good idea to vote for Jill Stein. Besides, the Greens could use the numbers to get up to the coveted 5% of the popular vote status.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

ngant17's picture

so that's where I'm going if Bernie isn't left on the ballot.

Monolithic politics require you to vote the party not the person. I'm not drinking this Koolaid.

Hillary is anti-democratic. The Honduras coup was just another example of her propensity to use force and violence for solutions. She will be like another Raygun who ran amok in Nicaragua in the 1980s, mining Corinto, arming contras, cocaine smuggling. The world will be her military playground.

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stage with Jill Stein, during Ghandi's next stage, "then they mock you", they would obviously start comparing Hillary's long experience in government with Stein's very real lack of experience. But as we learned in this primary, what the hell does experience matter if a lot of that experience includes pushing horrific, poorly thought out policies.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

edg's picture

I grew up in the era of George Romney and Bill Milliken, two Republican governors that were to the left of Hillary Clinton on many issues.

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Daenerys's picture

a flaming liberal.

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This shit is bananas.

Ken in MN's picture

...Marx was a wimp...

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I want my two dollars!

compared to Hillary.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Amanda Matthews's picture

to that statement.

"It takes a Democrat to screw a Democrat. And to enact a mean-spirited elitist Republican war on minorities, the poor, the aged, the sick, and the hungry."

Just look at Slick Willie's first two terms. Lord knows what she's planning to push through. Soylent Green anyone?

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

featheredsprite's picture

But I'm beginning to suspect that the Democratic Party cannot be reformed.

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Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.

pswaterspirit's picture

Lemmings. They will gladly follow the heard over the cliff.

It is a tremendous cultural divide between regions. Some places it appears party is everything. Here thinking for ones self and voting thoughtfully after careful consideration of available information regardless of party is considered the proper way.

You will note when I expressed this on GOS I was flagged and accused of spouting a right wing talking point.

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Ravensword's picture

It is problematic.

On the one hand, I can understand red-state citizens' concerns for electing a Democrstic president, regardless of whether said president would be good. The only thing matters is that they're not as crappy as Republicans. They've been fucked very badly by Republicans. Some states it's damn near impossible for a woman to get an abortion.

On the other hand, it's time for the Dem establishment to start shittin' kittens.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

we're just blowing smoke up our own asses.

Not counting election fraud mechanisms firmly put if place by BOTH parties,

40 fucking 3% don't have any say whatsoever in who gets to even play the lottery. That's way beyond a disgrace, it resembles Cold War Soviet Bloc charades.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

What I can never figure out when I read posts like those you've excerpted (c'mon--the idea of incrementalism--as if it hasn't failed us for decades, now), is if these Guys are truly that dense and/or disconnected; or, if they just think that the rest of us are.

Acute

I'm not really certain what the emoticon above is supposed to indicate--I just think it's hilarious, so here you go! [Please, don't take it badly.]

Mollie


"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

snoopydawg's picture

The stakes are too great to risk losing what we’ve gained over the past seven-plus years. And no matter what our differences, we have a much better chance together to break the stranglehold of money in politics and public policy.

Exactly what have we actually gained over the last seven-plus years besides some very nice social issues that haven't affected the elite's or the corporations bottom lines? Yes many more people are being helped because of the ACA, but many more are paying higher premiums and have such a hard time paying for them that when they have such high deductibles as $6-10,000 dollars that they can't afford to see a doctor. Or didn't get to 'keep their insurance policies or their doctors'.
We have seen even more innocent civilians being killed by the illegal use of drones in countries that congress hasn't given Obama permission to use them nor where they a threat to the US.
We've seen the war in Afghanistan continue and will continue until after Obama leaves office.
We've seen troops going back to Iraq over the objections of the Iraqi government.
We have seen Libya destroyed because of trumped up charges that Gaddafi was killing his own people when he wasn't doing that.
We've seen Syria destroyed again by trumped up charges that Assad was gassing his people.
We've seen the increase of violence in Honduras because neither Obama or Hillary would call the overthrow of the government a coup. (And by the way both Hillary's friends and the Clintons have made a lot of money because of it).
We've seen the coup in Ukraine which has let the neo Nazis rise to power and many innocent civilians killed. And Hillary's brother and her friends have gotten lucrative contracts because of her state department handing them out.
We've seen the US and NATO threatening Russia because Obama has said that they are being aggressive. We have troops in countries surrounding Russia but I don't see Russia's bases being built in Mexico or Canada, nor have I read that Russia's been invading countries like the US has been doing.
I could keep going on, but I think I have made my point.

Remember when Obama told us to hold his feet to the fire and to let him know when we thought he needed to be pushed left? How did that work out for us?
During the health care debate, how many emails, phone calls and petitions did we do trying to get single payer or a public option?
Hillary's supporters and Kos say that we need to make sure that she keeps her promises and push her left.
I don't want to vote for someone who needs to be pushed left when I had the option to vote for a candidate that was already thereimage_32.jpeg

image_33.jpeg

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“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt

The rulers have always thought the people stupid, and at the very least, partly because they've worked to make it so.
Heil Caesar.

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With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU

mjsmeme's picture

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And what a great idea it was to pick completely unnecessary fights with another nuclear power - NOT. It's been a really disastrous last eight years. I thought I was working and voting in '08 against that sort of stupidity.

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Ravensword's picture

I don't care much for Russia, so I find it hard to feel sorry for Russia, a country that elected a Bond villain twice, if Obama says some nasty things about them. Russia is also a good example of neoliberalism run rampant, as well as big time crony capitalism. It's also a socially conservative wasteland. I'm all for Russia sending its swinging cock into the Middle East, and with similar results.

Didn't weapons inspectors actually find stockpiles of chemical weapons, and chemical weapons were used during the civil war.

Also, ActBlue helps raise money for for Bernie's campaign, if I'm not mistaken.

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Don't believe the neocon propaganda. The reason Russia succumbed to a vicious cabal of some of the most corrupt neoliberals and neocons was because we sent them to undermine and destroy that country (check out the fucking criminals Larry Summers and his Hahvahd cabal were). That cartoon propaganda about Putin? He turned that ship around and the people of Russia who suffered so immensely under that corruption are everlastingly grateful that their lifespans stopped plummeting, suicides and alcoholism declined and they actually had something to eat. That "swinging cock"? Is what kept us out of another disastrous bombing response in Syria because the fucking "rebels" were the ones who were using the chemicals. I really have a hard time trying to overcome day in and day out, the slime and BS that we are fed so as to create this monster for the MIC to feed off.

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Ravensword's picture

If you think Russia under Putin is a better place than it was when it was a communist country, then woe to you, good sir. Just trading one autheoitarian government for another, and this time it's a right-wing kleptocracy.

As for Syria, Russia can do what they damn well like. In fact, Russia can have the entire Middle East. Let them try to be the new suzerain of that region. It's all theirs, along with the consequences therein.

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gendjinn's picture

created by the US from 1991 until Putin. The communist period was also better than the Yeltsin period.

From your comments I can draw no other conclusion that you've never read a single book about any period of Russian history. Especially the period since 1989. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's obvious from JuliaW's recitation of details that she has. So, you know, perhaps investigate why someone who is informed holds such an opinion, read up on it, before belittling it.

Yes Putin is a bad guy. So why are people choosing him? The Taliban weren't the greatest, but Afghanis rallied to them because they took the guns off the street, brought law and order, stopped the raping of women going to the store.

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There is a reason people pine for the old Communist USSR, and it's because they had a safety net, so yeah, Putin's time is worse than Communism-but it's because the country was stripped of its assets and destroyed by neoliberalism, a situation that will take decades to repair. "As for Syria" Russia held off until the situation we fucking created got so dam bad that ISIS was threatening to overtake more than one country, and intervened legally (the only country to do so, so far) to actually bomb the shit out of them more accurately and tactically (for example, hitting their loong trucklines of oil being sent to our pals in Turkey) in their few months than the US and its allies did in years. Wonder why? And if you want to see an imperialist, war-mongering nation in action, stop creating these cartoon enemies and look to the US. You certainly won't see Russia meddling militarily in Yemen, Iraq, Libya, and all the other countries we've effectively destroyed either directly or indirectly by supporting some of the worst fucking authoritarian regimes on the planet like Saudi Arabia and Turkey. So please read about what's really happening, and not in our famous MSM which is all too happy to regurgitate the fucking neocon BS (which, BTW, Killary is moar than happy to sell).

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Raggedy Ann's picture

Ain't happening. Ain't voting for HRC under any circumstances.

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

"...the quest for purity, and the misplaced pride has to stop." = favorite clinton campaign tp about "coming together" & letting bygones be bygones. (gag)

so, let's review...after smearing bernie for months on end, & lying about him & his record--& trashing his supporters non-stop, even resorting to the obscene tactic of planting child porn images on pro-bernie sites & reporting it to mods in order to shut the sites down (yes, pro-hillary groups actually did that this past weekend)...now, hillary's campaign wants everyone to just forget about the past & come together for one, giant group hug--oh, & don't forget your wallet.

fuck that. not happening.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

Petitioning FEDERAL BUREAU of INVESTIGATION
Indict Casey "Champagne" Charbonneau for distribution of Child Pornography

As we all know, Facebook has suspended multiple Pro-Bernie Sanders groups due to Casey "Champagne" Charbonneau spamming the groups with child pornography. Seeing as publishing child pornography is a federal felony, Casey should be indicted for sharing lewd images of minors on a social media platform. No longer will we allow Hillarys goons to bring us down and stifle our candidate. INDICT CASEY CHAMPAGNE ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY CHARGES!

INDICT CASEY CHAMPAGNE ON CHILD PORNOGRAPHY CHARGES!

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Lookout's picture

and steep, but I'm not throwing in the towel until the end. There's still the hope of indictment.

still vote for us.jpg

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

this should go viral.

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i don't know how to do it, but it would be much enjoyed--& appreciated Smile

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Lookout's picture

One time someone told Woody Guthrie - Hey Woody that guy is stealing all your material. That's ok he said, he just steals from me, I steal from everybody.

So to steal an image, right click, I usually select the "save images as.." and send it where you want. I normally put it on the desktop to rename and pick the best folder to save it. So feel free to grab images from me...cause I steal from everybody.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

is basic to all culture." He was quoting his dad, who was a famous musicologist. So it is not meant as criticism, it is meant to describe how things happen. Every creative person is standing on the shoulders of others.

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Ravensword's picture

We have to remain clear-eyed about this issue. I don't know how forthcoming an indictment is, if at all.

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riverlover's picture

At TOP there is a boiling argument with the Hillarians ball-spiking and threatening the Sanders supporters with "either you vote Dem or you are furthering the Republican cause and voting for Trump". lalalala, she's a most-wonderful candidate. The option is binary to them, and anyone who resists is just a stupid lazy person. Like all 60% who never vote.

After reading that for a while, the Democratic Party needs to be demolished, in my opinion. Democracy is winner-take-all.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

About their establishment party. It really is 2 sides of the same coin. If we can find some common ground with these disgruntled Republicans / Americans we would be unstoppable.

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Beware the bullshit factories.

Ravensword's picture

Like both of them. First it was the formerly presumptive nominee Jeb! And then it was Robo Rubio.

I can't say that I don't envy them, and not just because they're stuck w/ Trump, especially since they wanted him. I just wish we could've replicated that success here on the left. Regardless how you feel about Trump, really did manage to achieve a breakthrough. He was the candidate the right (especially the alt-right) was waiting for. What excuse do we have for our failure, if not for the multitude of useless liberals and progressives who have settled for Hillary?

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Because Trump is bloviating and Bernie is telling us the truth we need to hear and Trump is part of the establishment and is pretending not to be. Bernie has never been part of the establishment. The refusal to vote for the candidates that the establishment rams down our throats is the same with both Trump and Bernie supporters. That's where we need to combine forces.

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Ravensword's picture

This is still not good news. I would say that he is the so-called "man." Obviously, a Trump presidency would be terrible (barring any sort of fluke and blind luck).

Trump has tapped into the frustration of white, working class folks. The GOP has used race to divide the people and get them to vote for them. Unfortunately, I see that the Dem establishment is little better. With Hillary getting her supporters to reject important economic reforms (e.g., breaking up the big banks shouldn't be done, because it won't end racism—seriously, that's a fucked up conclusion).

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

in making the Democratic Party a top-down organization/Party.

Look no further than the super delegate scheme, which progressives (apparently) have accepted for years. Plus, I think that it's obvious that the Dem Party/Dem Establishment is simply better at propagandizing its Base. Think TOP!

If we can't break through their 'BS,' we will continue to have this problem (I fear). Social media is wonderful, but it clearly does not reach all segments of the Dem Party.

We've simply got to continue to innovate and strategize, coming up with new ways to get our message out.

Wink

(Music City) Mollie


"Vision without action is a daydream. Action without vision is a nightmare."--Japanese Proverb
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

With the voters at the bottom. The complete opposite of what a progressive party should be. Change does come from the bottom up.

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Haikukitty's picture

It's not the fault of the voters. Give us a decent candidate - or rather - stop cheating the good candidate out of votes, media coverage and support. It's not MY fault that we're stuck with Hillary and thus probably a President Trump - its the DNC's fault, and the loss will be entirely on their shoulders, not mine.

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People voted for Gore and Kerry, once they won their nominations, largely because they had "D"'s next to their names. It won't work today. The stakes are too high and there is too much of a demand for change. People are too tired of being played. Our democracy was created as a non-violent tool for change when there is revolution in the air. Taking that tool away from us is ignoring history.

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Beware the bullshit factories.