On DKos, the Dem Party and Bernie
By ArkansasJoseph, Daily Kos, via Daily Kos
Saturday Apr 23, 2016
…where is fancy bred. In the heart or in the head? ….
It is engendered in the eyes, with gazing fed, and fancy dies in the cradle where it lies. Shakespeare, The Merchant of Venice, Act 3. Also Willie Wonka with Gene Wilder.
How is cynicism bred? When the heart loses to the head. Me, Joseph.
Or Democratic Party bosses. Me, Joseph.
“Without a vision, the people perish.” Etched in the rotunda of the Missouri capital (also Proverbs, 29:18)
When Kos issued his recent decree regarding all debate and candidate discussion on DK should focus on Hillary and all good Democrats had to get behind her (the presumptive Democratic nominee months before the election), I sighed deeply and resigned myself to another disappointment. It was just one in a long, long, long history of expectations that were left unrealized.
It almost rang a bell on DK history, where decrees were issued and people exiled into the Siberian forest of other non-DK blogs. But when your history is long and the times past, remembering an event can become difficult. Of course, his intentions were right. We all need to focus on the actual race and we all need to get along. There is a lot at stake once the nominee is selected. But before that selection and election process is over, with Bernie still breathing strong, it was a way premature proclamation.
But to me he tipped his hand. For me, it revealed he was part of that “official” Clinton/Democratic Party bullshit to pressure Bernie and his supporters to “give it up.” Once Markos was on the outside. Back in the day he was an outsider fostering debate, discussion and support for Progressives and Democratic voters...
I am not saying he sold out to the Democratic Party bosses (e.g., Wasserman-Schultz who sold out to …, but it looks that he didn’t trust the very process of which he is a part. It was just another attempted murder in the cradle.
I would be posting this as a comment on DK5, but my "time out" from there prevents that. Too bad, becuz this post by ArkansasJoseph pretty much expresses my sentiments re. the 2016 race and Markos' treatment of same. I couldn't agree more, and couldn't have said it better myself. Not that I post this to slam Markos. It's his site, he can do what he damn pleases there, and I expect to be there a long time. It still is one of the better progressive news sites on the tubes, and is where I get much of mine.
Why do #Berners slam HRC, wonder #HillarySettlers? Becuz, #Settlers, HRC represents all the stink coming from the DWS-DNC wing of the party. Pretty much as simple as that. Why do #Settlers slam #Berners? Becuz we don't support the stink coming from there, won't get in line to suck it up. Syracuse #Berners, myself included, showed up to support #Bernie's campaign the 2-3 weeks prior to the NY vote. Despite that effort #Bernie lost Syracuse 56-44. Something like that. And, despite that, Syracuse #Berners are right back at it, making calls to PA, other upcoming primary states. I know Syracuse ain't alone. Many #Berners in cities from sea to shining sea doing the same thing. There may be zero chance of beating HRC, but the campaign to shake up and wake up America, #Bernie's campaign, still moving it on down the road. Sorry, #Settlers, we won't pack it in, won't suck it up, won't get in line. The stench on your side too strong. America deserves better. Deserves #Bernie.
Comments
Money is a four letter word
No, wait, that is cash.
Hard to disagree with you. The site that used to be the Grate Orange Satan has self-destructed. Deliberately. With malice aforethought.
Well....
I am!
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First Nations News
Amen, Martha!
I'll add he's a shill, and the timing of the rollout of DK5, along with its anonymous flagging and auto banning of dissent, following up with his Ides Edict to nail that coffin lid down were all planned.
It's disgusting, and I see him in a whole new light now. He went well beyond selling out.
I've said it already but, we were played, and Markos gets paid.
He's part of the big manufactured lie that is the system Bernie, and we, are fighting against. Hell, he's the poster boy!
The owner
of TOP has played the con and milked it for all it's worth. And he's done a damn good job. He had a lot of folks fooled, myself included. I can see now how he saw a void and filled it with the sole intention of making money. He created a place with a rigid set of rules that suppresses any dissent one may have with the establishment dem party. For this he's rewarded handsomely I'm sure. To me he's no more of a progressive than any run of the mill republican. He's a little egomaniac running a business and will follow the money trail no matter where it leads...
So desu!
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
He was always a Republican.
An Eisenhauer Republican: centre-right, but nor crazy right.
When the Republicans turned crazy-right, Markos joined the DLC, blue-dog wing of the democratic Party as being closest to his political Aussicht.
He set up Kos as a way to pull centre-left Democrats to his centrist point of view by capitalising on the universal hatred of W.
"More and better" was always about "More".
And now we know. Once a Republican, always a Republican.
F*** Kos.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Now I can
see why he won't let users delete their accounts. It looks good to his advertisers to see 1M+ people signed up. Of course this includes all the spam accounts, rock crushers, etc. I'd bet he only has a few hundred that actually click there on a weekly basis. And the game he plays by not letting you delete a comment or even change it. It enables his trolls to go back on someone and say "but look at what she said in 06!!"
What a waste of internet space... WIS...
Blue Dogs Dime a Dozen
And we know who was helping provide the dimes.
More and better, meant more Blue Dogs which my some perverted definition could be called "better".
You're timed out, wink? What happened? I think Markos has
been paid, actually. Can't prove it. But he no sooner completed an upgrade to attract many more youthful readers, then he put his giant thumb on the scale for Hillary and alienated the majority of his readers, especially the youth. I can't explain the logic of that unless he was paid more to be pro-Hillary than the expected increase in traffic from being pro-Bernie.
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I rec'd a diary
I rec'd a diary that got the author BoJo'd. Not that big a deal. t's getting more difficult to stay there.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Ah. I've rec'd a few questionable diaries myself. That could end
up being my undoing over there, but I'm determined to support my peeps.
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I've been wondering if this wasn't, at root, worry
about what site demographics were telling them: DKOS was too white, too male, too OLD. The last is particularly odious - means that (paying) advertisers aren't as interested in your site.
Remember, they did a lot of email outreach to get new authors started? Retaining a lot of the old guard... not so important.
I wonder if the party was counting on DKOS to sway "the youth vote" toward HRC, and that site driving away Berners was just a miscalculation?
BF Skinner's last diary at TOP
had a poll, whose results showed that fewer than 25% of visitors to his diary were under 50 yo.
Truth is painful.
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Kos is an over 50 site. I
Kos is an over 50 site. I would say easily 75% there are easily over 40. But, youth (under 30) attending the Syracuse For #Bernie Parade made up 60% (or more) that were there. I said to another geezer there, "check out all the under 30s here! This #Bernie thing may actually turn out to Be something!"
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Hey!, I resemble that remark:
As I am well into the next decade, but have a brain that is better matched to my avatar photo, I self-identity as being among the majority (as you have estimated) of Bernie's supporters.
The sad truth is that many (of whatever demographic) do not agree that Bernie really represents what is best for this nation. If on Daily Kos you express such, you get barraged with demands for documentation proving beyond a shadow of a doubt that your opinion represents an absolute truth.
As well, PriceRip
With airtight documentation of the truth, you will be damned as a Republican. QED.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Cover for the influx
Of paid Hillarybots that flooded the site. They are overeducated, old white men with money and no kids. Ck Kos's own stats. They were all rowing in one of Kos' diaries about their Teslas, retro fitted overpriced homes in/near SanFrancisco.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I have to give you credit for prescience...
Tuesday the great and mighty KOS went on record as saying, essentially, that paid Hillary trolls just "fighting fire with fire."
Carnac lives!
Of course, his intentions
No, they weren't. He is bought and sold.
No, we don't. I want nothing to do with Hillary or her bots. I'm picky about who I associate with.
Too GD bad. Maybe next time they'll run a clean candidate. #NeverHillary #BernieOrBust I hope Hillary, her bots, and the Democratic Party are destroyed. If that makes Trumps President, too bad. My vote is earned. I don't owe it to anyone.
I am. He's been sold out for years. Do you honestly think all of Hillary's paid trolls on dailykos are there without his knowledge?
This is to slam Markos for the sellout he is. It maybe his site, but nobody has to put up with his shit. If your adult is ok with being put into a corner by the KosKops, knock yourself out.
Tipped his hand??? ROLMAO. I don't mean to be bitchy, but markos and his DNC owned and operated blog have a way of doing that to me.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Oh, I am looking for more than....
"Maybe next time they'll run a clean candidate."
I want a clean, honest and PROGRESSIVE campaign TOO!
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First Nations News
I Certainly Enjoy Your Comments
This time you came through with "I'm picky about who I associate with." Ouch!
But the topper is "My vote is earned. I don't owe it to anyone."
Why don't more of us understand this? Our vote is precious because it is the only political power "little people" have. But now we have discovered with Bernie that we also have the power of the purse. This discovery has surprised everyone including me. I know it's surprised the Clintons and their corrupt party apparatus.
So off we go in a new direction full of adventure, danger, and surprises. With luck we will surprise ourselves and the status quo with our effectiveness and seriousness.
Truth in Advertising Statement: I have nothing invested with DKos. I was only there a little while before the edict came down and the diaspora ensued. It has been painless for me to join all of you here on c99, but I certainly am aware of the hurt, anger, and disgust that is so prevalent. It appears that the reaction is a healthy one of "fool me once shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me."
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
Fortunately or unfortunately,
I tend to be impassioned, dispassionate, direct and sometimes blunt. If the dog died, the dog died. We all need to face the truth whether we like it or not.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Don't hold back, dkmich. Tell us how you really feel.
Wow! Righteous rant and right on!!!!
I disassociated from there because I couldn't speak.
Here I can. If Kos doesn't like the shoe, he shouldn't be wearing it. With Kos, we the left had something pretty damn good going from 04 - 08. We had a movement. We took out Lieberman. Obama and everybody else posted at our "LIBERAL" blog and attended our events. Now, pfft. Kos sold me/us out, and I'm pissed at him. Did Bill Clinton buy or threaten him and the rest of the bloggers? Either way, I hope it was worth all that it cost us, our kids, and our grandkids.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Thanks for bringing that to our attention.
Went over and Rec'd it and added a comment.
I'm spending a good part of the day here now ruminating on the loss in NY for a diary, which frankly I don't believe the accurate results have been had. Too much evidence of funkiness, from AZ to Iowa, and now this.
My district in Astoria, Queens went for Bernie. While I'm very proud of that, we couldn't have been just one of a handful that did in NYC!? There is enormous enthusiasm for him all over the State, and in the two places in NYC I canvassed for him. On top of which the rallies were historic and the voter registration was big. Over 120K voters purged in Bklyn alone? I heard of two people personally who couldn't vote, though both were registered Dem, including the 80 yr old mother of a friend who went in vain to two different place to try to vote for Bernie, hunched over and hobbled by disease. He might not have had enough to win outright, but a 16 pt loss? When the exit polls showed a 4 point difference?
Three high profile elected officials, from the Mayor to Comptroller to AG, have spoken publicly that they have deep concerns.
Something smells fishy.
So now Neoliberalism has more than just economic policy they share with Repugs.
Add voter suppression to the list.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Exactly. 16 pts. my ass.
I believe the margin closer to 4 pts. than 16. #Bernie had crowds upstate I never expected to see. I attended a March for #Bernie in the 'cuse (Syracuse) on a Very chilly Sat. morning ten days before the election. I expected 100, maybe 150 people. There was twice that when I met everyone at the parade start. 250 - 300. #Bernie Event Organizers were pleasantly stunned, expecting 100 or so themselves. I keep hearing on Kos that "crowds don't mean votes," but these people were and are fired up to kick some ass. They weren't there just to "see and be seen." 16pts. my ass.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I lurk but have no enthusiasm
I started an account at Daily Kos about a year ago. I actually thought it was a good place for me. I was taught different.
The T.O. was of the same sort for me. How dare I recommend an "offensive diary"‽ I really have a problem with ricochet discipline. Disciplining an offender is one thing but it is disingenuous to discipline someone that finds some merit in the "offending" material.
The rules of debate virtually require opponents to consider an opposition argument as potentially valid, how else are you to learn from the process.
I know, right? I remember when I first discovered them, loving
the back and forth in the comments, learning so much from reading all sides of the issues.
They made me more progressive!
Now it's an echo chamber. No enthusiasm indeed.
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It has gotten really bad over there.
I went to take a reading of the radiation levels, and was shocked that the top diary on the rec list was basically mocking and dismissing US poverty. Why do they dismiss the reality of US poverty? According to them, because they were successful.
What happened to that place?
srsly? mocking poverty. Revolting! eom
Don't believe everything you think.
That would be the story
by BBB, I think. Mr 1%er pretender. See, I can be blunt, too. No emoticon.
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I went over (I need a shower now) and read it.
If I read it correctly, BBB suggested he grew up in poverty. He doesn't sound like someone that grew up in poverty, or if he did he does not seem to have been aware if his situation at the time.
I am not some kind of intellectual giant, but when I was a pre-teen I was very aware of my socioeconomic status. His OP and the few of his comments near the beginning of the comment thread do not suggest the sort of sensitivities I would expect from a person coming from that background. But maybe the problem is that I am just "whitesplaining" because, et cetera . . .
I suppose I should use the manta "your mileage may vary" to apply to the effects of poverty, as it applies to everything else.
I check out the BNR, Tom P,
OPOL, Integritty, and a few others, but mostly I try to find the latest paid shill talking points.
If Clinton wins the nom, I will not return.
The place is infested with paid shills, and if you mention it, you are banned. Of all fucking things.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
No, his intentions were not right
I deny that any anti-reality stance can ever be correct. It is one thing to say that you shouldn't level baseless accusations against a Democrat. But then again, you really shouldn't do that against anyone including Republicans. But to censor a significant swath of reality itself is not and can not ever be the right thing to do.
Here's the thing about reality. It's really stubborn and really persistent. Saying we shouldn't talk about it does not change it.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I looked OT, now I am nauseous
BBB is a fake. A pretentious fake, with bad taste. Teacherken, did he have a head injury? I swear, I cannot understand non-Clintonistas' ability to keep slogging along over there. Screw them of the Other side. I am done.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
I don't get TK either. I
I don't get TK either. I read his stuff often. How can somebody so smart be so dumb? HRC? Really? Where is her Dem cred? When TK falls for this #ReadyForHillary crap you just know the Dem party as it currently exists is hosed, unsustainable,
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Sorry but TK was always about TK, narcissistic to a fault
No original content, used to plead w users to click to his diaries, which were always someone else's (often P. Krugman) content.
Don't believe everything you think.
I didn't used to think that, used to love his stuff. But now
he's totally sHilling. Maybe you saw something real that escaped me!
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Pompous as hell. n/t
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Since we are doing a tk review...
I always found his inverted writing style, offering nuggets of op-eds from NYT and WaPo, and some slight expounding from those to begin to sound like a smart HS kid writing a crappy book report. Somehow always returning to derivative agreement, probably using a thesaurus. Cliff Notes. HS teacher, yup.
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It appears to be a classic Abusive Relationship
Stockholm Syndrome / Battered Wife Syndrome for many of the die-hards that refuse to see that they are playing into the hands of their abusers by continuing the conversation.
He didn't fall for it. He was always in the establishment circle
He was rubbing elbows on educational committees and iirc he was even feted as one of their own. He is part of the insiders group and likes the attention.
SOOOOO happy to hear all this.
I couldn't stand to read TK's stuff, it was SO self-important and egotistical. And yet it seemed he was idolised. I wondered what was wrong with me.
No snowflake in an avalanche feels responsible. -- Voltaire
Here's a nice example of drinking the koolaid
Found in the comments of a diary with a hidden tip jar. A third party diary. The person he responded to wanted to debate it rather than flag it.
Reminds me of the movie Invasion of the Body Snatchers when a normal person was found. You know, how they would all point and give that shrill scream?
OMG, you nailed it!
That point-and-shriek!!!!! And we thought that movie was nightmarish, now it's real.
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Fuck DKos, Fuck the Dem Party
and if I was a woman, I'd give Linda a run for her money.
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Vote Smart - Just the Facts - 40,000 politicians by name or zipcode
Linda?
Lovelace?
Tripp? (First one to come to mind, actually.)
Did I have a brainfart? I meant Mrs. Bernie
Wouldn't be the first time.
I meant Mrs. Bernie
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Well, you were fucking a lot so I guessed Lovelace
You meant Jane. The woman my mom chastises because, "She needs to cut that scraggly hair. A woman her age should not have long hair." I adore her, though. She must have nerves of steel, though, because I'm thinking Bernie's so intense that he's probably exhausting.
2nd try with this comment. Something ate the last one, but posted a blank reply.
Thanks, deja.
So many heroines, so little time. I'll leave if anyway, or else none of the rest of the ridiculous mini-thread makes any sense.
[note to self: make sure brain is engaged before putting fingers to keyboard.]
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gave it a thumbs-up, but this:
"[Daily Kos] is still is one of the better progressive news sites on the tubes..." --seriously??
besides msnbc, which also claims to be progressive, i can't think of any that are worse.
speaking of the right column,
speaking of the right column, of course. Aside from MB, Egberto and maybe one or two others the FP is worthless. Hasn't been the same since MSNBC leaned forward.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Community diaries are still often good.
But my eyes drift down the right side. If I wanted to stay, I would have to collapse beyond Community. And I wish more of the interesting folk there posted here.
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TOP
Alice In Wonderland or Nineteen Eighty Four? Up is Down; Black is White. You decide.
Here is a very good explanation by the diarist
in a later comment:
ArkansasJoseph ksh01
Apr 23 · 08:24:21 PM
I call it disenfranchisement because I see two types of disenfranchisement.
One type is purging the voter rolls, making it difficult to vote because of closing or moving polling locations, or establishing barriers to voting via new identification. The second is when you are asked to vote for a person when a large percentage wants a different one than the one selected outside of common voters. This type is like the old (maybe even now) Soviet system where people are given the “party” chose and have that choice or none.
The US of A has this type of system, for both Democrats and Republicans. It is this that has caused the split in the Republican party. The establishment of Super-delgates that are not representative of the will of that segment of the party, to me, is a disfranchisement.
Europe countries generally have a wider array of parties and from that comes the leader, the prime minister. But all parties have a representative of that specific group. That is lacking in the US.
----I think it is genius to compare our electoral system to the equivalent of two Soviet-style systems, in competition. It is correct.
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