Open Thread - Thurs 25 May 2023: When Johnny...

When Johnny:

I believe Memorial Day is a good thing, honoring those who have fallen in our endless and often stupid wars. It's not their fault they fought, they died and they should be honored for doing so. Of course, there should be a day for honoring protesters too, those who fought, got hurt, died. Heh, I'm dreaming.

A few weeks ago, I was listening to some songs off old cds and vinyl I'd moved to my computer. I came across Steve Earle and the Pogues singing 'Johnny Come Lately' back in the late 80's.

Here's a good video featuring the song. And here's a link to a video about how Earle and the Pogues recorded the song.

I'd forgotten how much I love that song. I love the Pogues' contribution, I love Earle's talk of the US airman who marries his British girl and brings her home. The parades, the quick step, the march… and then the ending where he, himself, coming home from fighting in 'Nam, gets no parade, no love, no welcoming crowds. Makes me cry.

Earle's song is obviously a take on the traditional song 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home'. That song dates to the American Civil War, lyrics written in 1863 to a traditional tune. I've known that song since I was a kid, heard it played many a time by many a high school or military band and often sung along to it.

Here's a version by Mitch Miller. Note the lyrics are from the Civil War era. Gay had a different meaning then!

But the song *I* remember the most, is not the military, proud, 'When Johnny Comes March Home'. The one I remember, eventually set to the same traditional tune (it wasn't when it was first written), is 'Johnny I hardly Knew Ya'. This one is not from America but from Britain, lyrics written about 1867. Wikipedia said it was at first meant to be funny, but, I dunno, it's hard to imagine a society that would find it funny. It's one of the most powerful antiwar songs out there, I think.

'You haven't an arm, and you haven't a leg, you're an eyeless, boneless, chickenless egg, You'll have to be put with a bowl to beg, Johnny, I hardly knew ya…' Gods, the lyrics are just heart wrenching. Especially if you know anything at all about what happened to disabled veterans in the past, and what can still happen to them now.

I've heard this song from the time I was a little girl, the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem sung it, and my parents were avid fans of that group. So, I know the words by heart, at least, their version of the words. In fact, it's those words, not the ones from 'When Johnny Comes Marching Home' that I would sing as the marching bands played. I always wondered why the military bands played such an anti-war song.

Recently, as mentioned above, I have been listening to various versions of the song, or songs inspired by this song. I found out that one of the speed-folk, punk-celtic, whatever, bands that I so adore, but lost for a while when I seemed to have turned off all music about 15 years ago (but turned it back on about 5 years ago!!), sings a version of the song. Dropkick Murphys! Their version is awesome, fast, hard, full of feeling.

I found another youtube video using the Dropkick Murphy's version of 'Johnny I hardly knew ye'. I don't know the maker, he/she did this around 10-15 years ago, so it's missed a few wars (no, that's not really sarcasm, is it?), and it's the only video the video creator seems to have done. It's one of the best anti-war videos I think I've ever seen, and it's an excellent memorial to the soldiers, civilians, everyone who suffers and dies during war. I was sobbing when the video finished. The images fit the lyrics perfectly. And when the man is looking, horrified, at the place where his leg used to be... When the young woman is putting the flower in the soldier's gun, past his bayonet... Like I said, I was sobbing. I've linked the video here and below, youtube has decided it's age restricted now (wasn't a couple years or so ago!). It's well worth watching, even though it really can pull the heart strings.

So I sobbed for a while, and then I thought, look, maybe the song has some fun attributes and sure enough! Not the lyrics, but the tune, is used for a rugby fan song called, 'I Met a Whore in a Park'. What the heck? Really? Ummm… so, ok, youtube. And I found a version! And I was laughing all the time! Now, this is definitely NOT a song to listen to if you are 1. bothered by swear words 2. bothered by naughty lyrics and lyrics about sex 3. bothered by the concept of whoring 4. bothered by thinking of young athletes/fans drunk and having a blast 5. bothered by that guy who spits out his beer, what a waste of a pint! The song can be offensive; it's a rugby song, so it's not a big thing if you don't want to listen to it. But, perhaps the two or three of you left who can stomach all that might like to see the video. Note there's no nasty images in the video, it's just a bunch of young sports fans singing with LOTS of swear words.

This video needs the age restriction warning, not the one using the song by the Dropkick Murphys!

I'll admit. The video of 'Johnny I Hardly Knew Ye', with the Dropkick Murphys song, was WAY harder to take for me than the song about the whore in the park. And that's my current deep dive into music!

So, have a good Memorial Day weekend! Enjoy the parades and the celebrations! And, of course, think a bit about the point of the day, about the people that have died during our endless wars, our soldiers, our sailors, our marines, our civilians... and the 'enemy's' people too. Thanks for reading and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Sima's picture

Welcome to Thursday! The weekend coming up should be long, and hopefully fun for everyone. We will be working in the yard and farm and playing with the goats and the dog and having a good time, hopefully! Got some pruning and lots of weeding to do. Some weeds in the garden are about 3 feet tall. How the heck did that happen?

So, let us know how you are doing and what's up with you. And how do you think of Memorial Day? I think of my great Uncle, who died in Korea, my great great Uncle, who died in WWI, my Uncle, who fought in Vietnam, my Grandfathers, one who fought in WWII, one who was in the reserves then, my husband, in the Army for many years and stationed in Korea, my father, active in the Air Force for a few years (stationed in Libya), then in the reserves for about 20 years... I bet you have a few relatives (or yourself!) with such creds too.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

QMS's picture

Had another version of Johnny comes home, but couldn't find it. Pretty sure I posted it
here many years ago. So will play this instead.

bonus track

Thanks for the OT!
enjoy the goats

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Sima's picture

@QMS
Thanks for posting them, and thanks for dropping by! Have a great weekend Smile

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

usefewersyllables's picture

antiwar song is this one, originally written by a Scotsman named Eric Bogle: it is also hard to take.

"did you really believe that this war would end wars?"

I personally plan to spend this weekend mostly beating the drum slowly and playing the pipes lowly...

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

Sima's picture

@usefewersyllables
I got familiar with his music, his writing, from this song that you've featured, The Green Fields of France. I hadn't listened to the Dropkick's version before. Wow, that video really hits it, I'm wiping my eyes.

A few years ago I went into a deep dive learning about Bogle and his music and found this song:

As If He Knows

Bogle's written a lot of other really moving and sad songs. But that song, 'As If He Knows', about the over 100,000 Australian horses shipped to Europe for WWI, about how the soldiers had to kill their own horses because the cheap a$$ed politicians and generals wouldn't ship the horses back home... Damn... The song is filed in my 'only for crying' folder.

Beating the drum slowly and playing the pipes lowly sounds like a good way to honor Memorial Day to me!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

snoopydawg's picture

.

How doctors buy their way out of trouble

When federal enforcers alleged in 2015 that New York surgeon Feng Qin had performed scores of medically unnecessary cardiac procedures on elderly patients, they decided not to pursue a time-consuming criminal case.

Instead, prosecutors chose an easier, swifter legal strategy: a civil suit. Qin agreed to pay $150,000 in a negotiated settlement and walked free to perform more cardiac surgeries at his new solo practice in lower Manhattan.

Qin faced no judge or jury. He did not admit to wrongdoing. He maintained his license to practice. What’s more, neither Qin nor government officials were required to notify patients who purportedly were subjected to vascular surgical procedures they didn’t need. Those included fistulagrams to spot issues like narrowed blood vessels or clots, and angioplasties to open clogged coronary arteries.

Within months of the settlement, a registered nurse working for Qin at his Manhattan practice alerted authorities that something seemed amiss. The nurse, who ultimately turned whistleblower, alleged to federal prosecutors that the surgeon was performing unnecessary procedures on patients, mostly elderly Asian and Black immigrants whose care was covered by the public programs Medicare or Medicaid.

Prosecutors indicted Qin in 2018 on a felony count of fraud, which carried a maximum sentence of 10 years in prison. But in 2021, in a deal brokered behind closed doors, prosecutors dropped that charge in favor of yet another civil settlement, court records detailing that agreement show.

Read further and see how often this happens! Remember that 100,000 people die every year from medical ‘mistakes'!

I turned the doctor I worked for into the medical board and gave them lots of evidence of his doing unnecessary cataract surgery and even changing my medical test results from normal to something seriously bad. The board sent him a letter and 30 days to respond. He covered up the information I had turned in and so nothing was done to him. But he also did unnecessary testing when there was no pathology to warrant it and treatment when there was no benefit for the patient. This is where lots of doctors who specialize make their millions.

Last time I went to California I drove by his free standing outpatient surgical center. Seems like there is plenty of money for Medicare and Medicaid for those who abuse the system, but our government constantly cuts both programs because they say it’s too expensive and besides their Wall Street donors want the money for themselves!

Oh yeah and the thing that makes this so maddening is that during the last 3 years doctors who found ways to treat their patients who had the Rona and kept them alive and out of hospital were persecuted for not following FDA regulations for treatment. You know like giving them remdisiver and putting them on ventilators even if they didn’t need either or just not giving them anything at all until they were in full distress and then giving them remdisiver and put on ventilators! How fck’d up is this country?

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
Is really important, and full of how crazy our medical system is/has been. Kudos to you for turning in the doctor you worked for, I'm sorry, and unfortunately not surprised, that nothing happened to them.

About 4-5 years ago I fell down the stairs and broke my ankle. I was carrying laundry... heh. Managed it over night but went to the ankle/leg doctor the next day. This was my first time at a medical facility in about, ohh, 20 years. The specialist there wanted to do surgery right away. I said, 'But what did you do in the past?' Put it in a cast, apparently, but 'surgery was better, faster, would have a better outcome.' And it cost over 10 times as much, included putting me under sedation, staying in the hospital for a few days... I didn't have insurance, so they put me in touch with someone who helps people navigate the system (here in WA state) to get state sponsored insurance. That was great, but I didn't want to have an operation. DID NOT WANT ONE. A few years before, the operation would not have been recommended. It was just this new surgery, that everyone was pushing, that the doctors were sure was great. So I did some research online that night, came back to the clinic and told her no operation. I got a toe to thigh cast for 3 months. It sucked for those 3 months and a couple after but... it healed great, the break fixed itself, I can walk great, there were no side effects, the only drug I took was ibuprofen. Yea, it hurt, but the doctor wouldn't prescribe a better pain killer.

Funny thing was, as a result of the xrays and things I had to have for the doc to figure things out, we found out my ankle had been broken years before. And I never knew. Yea, it hurt for months, but I was overseas studying and just decided to 'keep on keeping on'.

Our medical system is nuts. I don't really trust it, it is was too expensive to use, but what else do we have? Can we change it? Sure doesn't seem like the powers that be will let us.

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6 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

snoopydawg's picture

@Sima

Any surgery causes cutting muscle and nerves and often times neither of them heal properly. The same thing happened to me. I broke my ankle during my walk and then I went to the store because I had no food in the house. The cemetery said they would cover the cost, but I wasn’t sure if they would when I saw the doctor who wanted to do surgery and put pins in it. I told them it wasn’t settled yet and he sent me home in a boot. 2 weeks later it was healing well enough it didn’t need surgery.

Like the nurse in the story I tried warning people in our practice to get a 2nd opinion before having surgery. It was so awful seeing how crooked he was and not being able to do anything about it. The look on his face when I told him I was quitting was priceless. I don’t remember what he said to me, but I told him that he hired me on false pretenses because of the amount of fraud he was committing. I used up my savings to go work for him and I was ready to pump gas to stop. Fortunately I got another job before I quit. The worst thing he did was doing surgery on a retina that had been detached for 5 years. You have 1-3 days to reattach it or all the cells die so there was no chance that the patient would get any vision back and of course he didn’t. That’s fraud!

Orthopedics is another specialty that does unnecessary surgery but the biggest culprits are heart surgeons who do unnecessary testing.

I hope people will be aware of what doctors do and will get a 2nd opinion if their doctor suggests certain treatments. Or do your own research…

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There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?

Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.

Sima's picture

@snoopydawg
I just wanted to say how much I admire you for reporting that doctor. Such a brave thing to do!

As for breaking ankles, I wonder if wearing boots, like hiking boots (which I wear and wore all the time) can help with the healing. The boots support the ankle or something like that? I wore hiking boots after I broke my ankle the first time, and didn't even know I'd broken it. I bet their support helped!

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1 user has voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

My parents were WWII refugees from Eastern Europe. They found themselves in the American zone at the end. Refugees from all over wanted to get into the US zone because the treatment of them was pretty good compared to English and French. So thanks to American and especially Soviet soldiers who died fighting the fascists.

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@MrWebster we are glad you and your family are here.
USSR, with some late end invasion assist, gave your family and you the life you have, and my hope is that you enjoy it.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Sima's picture

@MrWebster
relaxing, gardening and late spring cleaning. I am so very grateful your parents were able to make it over here after WWII. Glad you are here!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Granma's picture

Is on my mind. I think Biden should have stuck to the demand for a clean bill raising the limit.
In my opinion, the House Republicans have been playing chicken with the debt ceiling, bluffing. Their donors do not want a default.

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Sima's picture

@Granma
that the owners don't want a default. But everyone is making it kabuki, aren't they? And it's a good excuse to lower all that money they give to the poor and up some donations to Ukraine.

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4 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

enhydra lutris's picture

with the Indy 500. My dad listened to every moment of it on the radio and documented all available data, starting the night before in a huge data table of his own creation. It wasn't anti-war or anything, just something he really liked doing. He was a decorated vet who had fought in North Africa and Italy. His entire unit was wiped out at Anzio, and the few survivors were parceled out to other units for the duration. Possibly he got so involved with Indy to take his mind off of it, dunno.

Don't wanna go through my entire mental and intellectual evolution, but I've got a couple of tunes to add to the feast:

I usually play the Pogues' version of the first one but it is now "restricted age" and only available on YouTube.

Hell, probably 3 or 4 more by Phil Ochs as well.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Sima's picture

@enhydra lutris @enhydra lutris
Another great Eric Bogle song. I learned it from the Pogues too. Clancy sang it as well, of course. The Phil Ochs song is great too. I've been weepinig so much reading the answers to this thread (and not because of the answers, but because of the emotional and moving music) I can't read too well. Heh.

I don't remember the Indy 500 so much for Memorial Day as a child, although I think that was part of it. I can understand why your Dad obsessed on. His experiences and memories were powerful and maybe sometimes to be avoided. My parents took us to parades most of the time, that's what I remember about Memorial Day. Parades. Ohh and picnics.

Edited to change the second instance of 'parents' in the third to last sentence to 'parades'. Boy, I can be goofy at times!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

usefewersyllables's picture

@Sima

It wasn't Memorial Day in my childhood home without hearing "And Andretti is slowing on the backstretch!" over the radio... (;-)

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

for the Memorial Day edition. I think listening to certain songs might be a good way to commemorate the occasion. I can think of no better way to show respect than to sound a warning about the current trajectory of our drumbeat towards war. There are so many good examples of musical arguments in opposition to war. Here are just a few to add to the list you have going.

Talking Heads/Life During Wartime

Bob Dylan/Masters of War

Eric Burdon/ Sky Pilot

The Clash/This Is Radio Clash

Thanks for your selection of music above. You're right about Steve Earl and the Pogues. It's a good one. Funny about your parents listening to the Clancy Brothers...mine did as well.

I have jack-in-the-beanstalk sized weeds too! It seems like they sprung up overnight. I will be weed-whacking them this weekend, hopefully, before the giants descend and wreak havoc.

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Sima's picture

@randtntx
All of them have been and are favorites of mine from over the years, and listening to them, thinking about their meaning and pointing that out to others is a good way to help stop our stupid, current, march to war. The Clash song? I still sing it to myself a lot, especially when the Navy jets fly over every day. And the Talking Heads? Bob Dylan? Eric Burdon? Such great artists and great songs. So again, thanks for the additions.

Jack-in-the-beanstalk weeds? That's a great description and yea, they seem to have sprung up over night. Some are putting flowers on. Now I have to leave them until the flowers are done, so the bees have something to eat! So some select weeds will get left, for a bit. The rest gotta go!

Hope you get a lot of weeding, etc, done this weekend. I'll be doing my best on my local weeds too!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

Is embracing censorship somehow like contracting syphilis??? It starts off subtle, then enters its blazing, frenzied 'halcyon' stage, then finishes off as enfeebling, pitiful dementia?

Just a few hours ago, in fact, I tried listening to this on its home website:

https://ocremix.org/remix/OCR02666

The link above is to a strictly instrumental "remix" of music from 1988 all-ages video-game Mega Man II, and the only thing remotely impure about it is its title, "Acid Flashback"; the above site, which is dedicated to original remixes of video- and computer-game music, does have some pieces which might merit age-restriction - like this one, which bizarrely does not get one!:

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

Sima's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat

It's too much, really, and it seems almost every platform is censoring, in one way or another. I suspect the anti-war video of 'Johnny I Hardly Knew Ya' is age-restricted because our military or one of their affiliates complained. I bet the military is worried because of low recruitment numbers and some kid might watch that video and decide not to enlist!

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3 users have voted.

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so