Open Thread - Thurs 09 Feb 2023: Social Isolation

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 5:00am

Social Isolation:

I know I'm getting old, I know that I don't know how everything works all the time anymore; not that I ever did. I know that I don't watch TV so I'm not right onto things, I get it. But still... This article on the Plague of Social Isolation by Chris Hedges really hit me in the gut (listen to it here).

In the article, he writes lovingly about his old gym, and about the people there. And he writes about the disorientation and despair which has arisen after Covid. One thing which hit hard, his description of his gym is a lot like my old gym, which I loved. My old gym wasn't dirty, and wasn't run by a mafia type outfit. It was part of a physical therapy business. It was tiny. It had about 25 regulars who were pretty close, including my husband and myself. There was the former gym trainer, a gay man, very alone now after his husband passed away, who was about 70 and went to about three different gyms every day in order to be with people. He was always willing to help me with my routine. There was a younger man, mentally disturbed (some kind of retardation), who became super close to me because I actually like him (as did the gym owners/workers), instead of just tolerating him. He works at the local supermarket now, and we talk all the time. And there was the 95 year old man who went to the gym for many years, he passed away about two years ago. Most of us regulars were really sad when he passed. My little gym shut down during/because of Covid and will never reopen, just like Hedges' gym.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEQ8e5zUQzQ]
Cherry Poppin' Daddies, Gym Rat! Now, none of the people at my gym looked like this, most of us were way too old, and/or, we don't care about looks, we care about strength. Only the old gym trainer was sculpted buff. But, who cares?, we sure had/have fun!

Hedges talks a bit about the closure of so many small businesses. I have seen this too. It's like everything 'local' is disappearing or reducing. And I've experienced other troubles I never really had, or at least rarely had, before in relation to customer services, payments, orders, and more. It seems like all this trouble is due to a 'don't care', very isolated, mentality. I think that 'don't care' attitude is apparent at high levels of management, and exacerbates the isolation, disaffection, and ennui of workers lower down the scale.

I have had six weird and/or failing interactions in commerce in just the last two or three weeks, such as being charged three times for the same items, missing items in a package from overseas which had been opened (not by customs or by the USPS) at some point, not being sent bills from my internet/phone company - but I was expected to pay anyway, a debit card being made out to the wrong person even though the paperwork said make it out to me, and more. Has this kind of thing been happening to you? Let us know. And if it hasn't, let us know too. I'd like to see something happy about commerce too!

I don't know if all this is happening because of the despair and isolation Hedges discusses; perhaps people just don't care that much anymore. I do know that face to face interactions recently have been very pleasant, and the people I've interacted with have been smart and super helpful. Maybe it's just the distance of most commercial (e.g. online or over the phone) interactions, the final stages of moving EVERYTHING, including help services, to another country. Or maybe it's something different, or a combination, or... I dunno. But I, too, like Hedges, fear this breakdown. He writes at the end of his article:

Social isolation is the lifeblood of totalitarian movements. There are many things I fear about the future, but this unmooring is one of the most ominous.

Anyway, have fun bopping around to the 'Gym Rat' song, and this is an open thread, so tell us what's happening, what you are thinking, and whatever else!

Ohh and here's a cute goat pic, just 'cause.

kelly1.jpg
This is Kelly, one of the first goats ever born here, at my farm. She lived well and long and gave us many kids. I miss her a lot!

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Open Thread
#hedges
#isolation
#gym
#commerce
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Submitted by Sima on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 5:15am
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I'm off doing financial stuff, yes, AGAIN. Ohh, the fun of learning how to be a trustee. At least it's not hard, just time consuming.

I wanted to note that I've found another gym, so I'm still trying to stay strong. The new gym is brand new and owned by a local couple. It's really, really nice. I'm still trying to find the community in the new gym, I hope that'll happen, I've only been going there a couple of months so far. I fear it might not because of all the ear buds and cellphones, but who knows? My younger friend from the former gym, the mentally ill man, goes there. When we see each other we have a great time working out side by side!

Ok, that's my good news. Anyone got any other good news? Bad news? Surprising news? News news? Post it below!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by exindy on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 7:02am

The thousand cut breakdown of the digital functioning in our society and the rising problem of isolation.

Just yesterday I was reading a piece about Hikikomori. As usual I downloaded the piece into a pdf for reading later. Good luck to me trying to find the link to the article, what path I followed to get there, hel, even a way to read it on my portable. The article is from one of the off brand science zines and I have no idea of its creds. https://www.zmescience.com/science/hikikomori-loneliness/

Anyway what grabbed me is how the situation comes so close to my family. My grandson is a freshman away at college and is having a very hard time coping with the new environment. When he was an early teen any time he bumped into a conflict, actual or perceived, he'd retreat into his room and join his online gaming family.

Hikikomori, the Japanese phenomenon of extreme social isolation is going global
by Mihai Andrei — January 20, 2023 in Feature Post, Science

https://www.zmescience.com/science/hikikomori-loneliness/

It’s important to note that this is not the run-of-the-mill “I don’t want to see people
today” introvert — the condition is characterized by extreme social isolation.

This condition also rarely changes for the better, and being a hikikomori is almost
always chronic. Interviews and surveys with hikikomori have revealed that hikikomori
feel strong levels of psychological distress and angst and, oftentimes, the mere thought
of renouncing this lifestyle can produce distress.

As usual in our disfunctional society the person is found to be lacking and the situation cannot possibly be at fault. Clockwork Orange springs to mind. (added on edit: Wait!, wait!... One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest. Sorry.) Too bad I have to buy a subscription to resee it. I have seen quite a few articles discussing this situation, eg, some pieces from Ian Welsh (https://www.ianwelsh.net/week-end-wrap-political-economy-february-5-2023/)

I think Caitln has touched on it also: https://caitlinjohnstone.substack.com/p/were-ruled-by-assholes-because-we

“People have a fairly easy time accepting that things are fucked because we are ruled by corrupt assholes. They have a much harder time accepting that we are ruled by corrupt assholes because our corrupt asshole systems will always necessarily elevate corrupt assholes to the top. It’s easier to blame our problems on oligarchs or the Deep State or a cabal of satanic pedophiles than it is to blame them on systems that we ourselves participate in and have lived our entire lives intertwined with and which have been continuously normalized within our culture. If the problem is just a few corrupt assholes then it’s not a very daunting problem, because all you have to do is remove those corrupt assholes and everything’s golden. If the problem is the systems around which our entire civilization is structured, it’s far more daunting. It’s easy to imagine a future without corrupt assholes. It’s almost impossible to imagine a future where human behavior is not driven by profit for its own sake, where we have moved from competition-based systems to collaboration-based ones where we all work together for the common good.” • Hence, the destruction of public health and, in fact, the very notion of a “public” (but maybe it was time for that?)

Oh darn, enough of that... we're living in the situation.

As far as the breakdown it is so frustrating. As part if the IT world I have a pretty good idea of the underlying cause. Systems cut corners. Hire some contractor to do the development and not care enough about doing a performance requirement, hel, don't even do a functional requirement analysis. Ignore the 10% that is hard to program. Voila... contractor gets paid, moves on and exindy is stuck with an email ID he can't remove beacuse it is linked to an account he had when he was with Comcast 5 years ago in Indy and became a zombie when he moved to Tucson. He managed to log into the AZ account (also a zombie cause he's in non-comcast WA) but his wife's email is in Indy and inaccessible.

Oh, guess what? A couple of my online accounts (like my landlord) use my AZ email and my wife's IN email. I can't find a human to help me even change my online account login IDs.

Apparently xfinity uses different parts of their "cloud" based on regions for some stuff and they don't have a provision for moving accounts between those parts. That's how I ended up with a dismembered online presence.

And no, I am definitely not a fan of using email ID as a login.

Thanks for the thoughts. Helps fight the age brain fog creeping in around the edges.

(added on edit) Found out I had missed some Gregg Olsen books and so I'm currently revisiting Kitsap in my reading. It's wonderful having the images.

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 3:07am
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@exindy
I never knew about Hikikomori before you posted this comment but, this really hit home. I think my mother 'suffers' from it. She is forced to interact with people, now that my father is in late stage dementia. and she has always interacted with her children, but... not anyone else, for years and years and years. My parents live in extreme isolation, about 3 miles from the nearest neighbor, surrounded by state and national park and forest. Sounds great, but... there are no encounters with neighbors or anyone really, out there.

As for your comment on IT and the poor quality thereof, I completely agree. Great description of what has and is happening!

Now, I gotta look up Greg Olsen!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Enchantress on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 9:07am

My good news is that I will probably, finally get real internet at my house. My small rural county got some grants to put in the service. They had to start with the area with the least amount of people with service. So that means the poor rural area gets it before the rich beachfront. It was supposed to be put in no later than December 2021. But because of Covid and supply chain issues, it has taken much longer. They came out to my house to see about putting up a 30 foot antenna. Said I needed a 50 antenna, and another team would have to do the site survey.

I live in the middle of the woods. Most of the people out here are the same. It’s just another example of a company trying to get away with using the least amount of equipment when common sense would tell you that before you even started. I figure it will be 4-6 more weeks before it happens.

Thanks for the weekly goat pic.

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Submitted by exindy on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 10:51am

@Enchantress

You expect things to happen overnight... /s

Remarks by the President on Securing Our Nation's Cyber Infrastructure
THE WHITE HOUSE
Office of the Press Secretary
______________________________________________________
For Immediate Release May 29, 2009

REMARKS BY THE PRESIDENT
ON SECURING OUR NATION'S
CYBER INFRASTRUCTURE
East Room
11:08 A.M. EDT
THE PRESIDENT: Everybody, please be seated. We meet today at a transformational moment -- a moment in history when our interconnected world presents us, at once, with great promise but also great peril.

Now, over the past four months my administration has taken decisive steps to seize the promise and confront these perils. We're working to recover from a global recession while laying a new foundation for lasting prosperity. We're strengthening our armed forces as they fight two wars, at the same time we're renewing American leadership to confront unconventional challenges, from nuclear proliferation to terrorism, from climate change to pandemic disease. And we're bringing to government -- and to this White House -- unprecedented transparency and accountability and new ways for Americans to participate in their democracy.

But none of this progress would be possible, and none of these 21st century challenges can be fully met, without America's digital infrastructure -- the backbone that underpins a prosperous economy and a strong military and an open and efficient government. Without that foundation we can't get the job done.
...
Let me also be clear about what we will not do. Our pursuit of cybersecurity will not -- I repeat, will not include -- monitoring private sector networks or Internet traffic. We will preserve and protect the personal privacy and civil liberties that we cherish as Americans. Indeed, I remain firmly committed to net neutrality so we can keep the Internet as it should be -- open and free.

The task I have described will not be easy. Some 1.5 billion people around the world are already online, and more are logging on every day. Groups and governments are sharpening their cyber capabilities. Protecting our prosperity and security in this globalized world is going to be a long, difficult struggle demanding patience and persistence over many years.

But we need to remember: We're only at the beginning. The epochs of history are long -- the Agricultural Revolution; the Industrial Revolution. By comparison, our Information Age is still in its infancy. We're only at Web 2.0. Now our virtual world is going viral. And we've only just begun to explore the next generation of technologies that will transform our lives in ways we can't even begin to imagine.

So a new world awaits -- a world of greater security and greater potential prosperity -- if we reach for it, if we lead. So long as I'm President of the United States, we will do just that. And the United States -- the nation that invented the Internet, that launched an information revolution, that transformed the world -- will do what we did in the 20th century and lead once more in the 21st.

Thank you very much, everybody. Thank you. (Applause.)
END
11:25 A.M. EDT

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Remarks-by-the-President-on-S...

When I tried that link:

404 / Page Not Found

I seem to remember a project long before I was born, Rural Electrification Act, 1936.

I don't like the idea of using radio waves for comms. Too easy to eavesdrop, too easy to fail. I like hard wired stuff. I even like the idea of using those facilities to do what is currently done with cell if the facilities are available. Hmm, maybe even marry the cell functions with PC functions. Unfortunately we have a couple of corporate systems competing instead of forcing cooperation using the power of charters.

Sure would be nice if we had some confidence in the capablities of a functional society.

Meh, this too shall pass. Good luck.

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 3:13am
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@exindy
I think of that often. A few years back Britain did something similar with internet. Even extremely isolated homes in northern England and Scotland, up on the mountains, have high speed internet. And it's not radio waves. I so want that happen here! Everyone needs access high speed access to the internet, no matter where they are!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 3:10am
Sima's picture

@Enchantress
Good grief. But, I hope they get it installed and working soon. Waiting 2 years for it sucks. I am extremely lucky in that I am just within the limit of closeness to the main internet cables that go down a major road near me. So, the provider HAD to give me access to that public (and publicly paid for), county, internet cable.

Glad you liked the goat pic!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 9:34am
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to be honest, I have rarely suffered complete isolation. Some, I know, opt for it, for various reasons, and some possibly proactively consciously adopt it as a good thing after finding it thrust upon them. I do not really grok the human psyche. At any rate, the first thing that came to my mind, as usual, was a song, and when I went to find the lyrics, I also found a critique that spoke of something of which I had been blithely unaware at the time:

“Splendid Isolation” is a first-person narrative story song that presents a view of the narcissism that pervaded the social attitudes at the close of the 80s decade. It’s told with all the wit and sarcasm for which Zevon was famous.

OTOH, it is very difficult to meditate or even think on a crowded bus, but then again, few monks are also hermits, so there's that. I would note that the need to interact with others relies on a need to get along with others. At what size does a cluster or people become a polity, and need that even happen? Clearly too early for any of this yet. time for more java.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 3:40am
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@enhydra lutris
I too don't suffer it much, but then, I am the person who sits in the corner reading a book at a party. I like the party, I like being with people, but it gets both boring and, at times, overwhelming, so I retreat to my book!

The Covid lockdown and isolation was pretty bad, even for book-reading me. Worse has been the destruction of so many small businesses. Hopefully we'll be allowed out of it, but now that we are supposed to be terrified of bird flu, who knows?

I don't know when people become a polity? I do know, that if there are three people on a desert island, politics will develop and two will be against one (often times different twos and ones for different things) almost immediately. Human nature!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by snoopydawg on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 10:21am
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SOTU and how they think Biden is doing so far and wondering just what happened to minds. They once thought Obama the best president since FDR even though he was nowhere close nor did he even try to be. But now they think this mind challenged geriatric Biden who has done even less for us than Obama did is now the best president since FDR. I’m wondering if their minds aged as poorly as Biden’s did and if that’s not the answer what is? Life right now for the working class and the poor is very dire and getting worse every year since the current crop of congress entered the halls some 30-50 years ago. How can they not see that? We have 2 democrats that are non functioning mentally as well as the president and many others who are questionable.

After writing the above I found this essay. Here’s the real reality that for some reason the shitlibs are blind to:

A staple trait of Biden’s presidency is that he repeatedly claims that he is making things better for ordinary Americans. In his own words, he is creating jobs, bringing down inflation and “delivering for families”. He frames himself as an FDR style titan who is reinvigorating the US following troubled times, and, in his words, making it “more competitive” than ever.

In reality, his statements could not be further from the truth.The United States is in chaos and the Biden administration faces painfully low approval ratings, crippling levels of inflation, weak 2022 GDP and a looming recession. Whatever the expectations of Joe Biden were, he has proved himself to be the most dangerous and hawkish Democrat leading the US since Harry Truman. As America tears itself apart at home, it is also doing so abroad.

More cars were reposed last month than any time since 2009 under the Obama FDR, more and more people are being evicted and Biden won’t lift a finger to rein in the private equity vultures. Most jobs created under Biden are part time and gig jobs just like the Obama FDR created. And of course Biden’s long career of screwing the working class is one of the biggest reasons we’re in this mess.

Oh well this is what I get from thinking in the morning.

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Putin isn’t going to make you homeless or kill you or deny you health care.
Your government will allow it to happen though.

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:09am
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@snoopydawg
And in the afternoon and evening and... I agree with everything you noted here. Also thinking is good even if depressing at times. I cannot understand why anyone tolerates, or tolerated, Biden. I never did. And it's obvious the power class knows or cares nothing about the other classes. And Biden has always been power class, whatever stories he tells.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by ggersh on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 10:53am
ggersh's picture

of amerikka

The "network" I use for everything medical decided unilaterally
to stop sending bills out in the mail. But then we get that same bill
from the "debt collection agency" in a matter of weeks after never
getting a bill....

Most every institution, industry has gone into the shitter and that's
putting it mildly.

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I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:11am
Sima's picture

@ggersh

Yep, they don't send out paper bills, but never let you know they aren't sending them. And then the collection agency, which sends out paper bills, gets involved. It's insane! I hope it resolves well, and in your favor, and the medical peeps owe YOU some money for erroneously sending the bills to the collection agency.

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5 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 1:10pm

A red carpet no less. I wonder f they will get the opportunity to kneel and kiss his ring?

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:14am
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@humphrey
Have no idea of reality, do they? It's all hollywood type photo ops with Zelensky. I wish they'd do a few photo ops with him as he was in the past. Seems more realistic. I wonder where he'll run to when it all falls apart? With a good chunk of the money the USA and the EU have given his country, of course.

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5 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 1:29pm

Seymour Hersh's bombshell report on US involvement in the Nord Stream destruction.

https://www.google.com/search?q=sy+hersh+nord+stream&biw=1242&bih=568&tb...

Just as many entries of US denial as the report itself.

No evidence of it on major newspapers or television networks.

I would expect MSNBC and CNN are scrambling to get interviews with Hersh as I type. /S

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Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 3:37pm

disappear. So far it seems to be working.

@humphrey

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:17am
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@humphrey
The bombshell or mainstream media ignoring it. It was pretty obvious, to anyone who can think without mainstream media talking in their ear, that Russia would NOT destroy its own pipeline. After that, it was just narrow down those who benefit. The US benefits the most, I think. I love Hersch's reporting on it all, with the evidence, though. And am thankful for it.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by fire with fire on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 1:39pm

The enemy of the current power structure is community. All the middlemen between the consumer and the producer are "rationalized" by corporate ownership. The rationality of course is employed for the comfort and convenience of the corporate executives who squeeze profit maximization out of every relationship, as the doctrines of neoliberalism dictate. Customer loyalty based on firsthand interaction is an inefficiency that is no longer tolerated.

The political question we should be asking our fellow citizens is, "do we really want to live this way?

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Submitted by QMS on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 4:06pm
QMS's picture

@fire with fire

who squeeze profit maximization out of every relationship

the piece missing out of their totally un-controlled attempt at global domination
is that little known fact that we still speak amongst each other. Some relationships
are beyond control.

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question everything

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:21am
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@QMS
'Some relationships are beyond control.' And will stay that way!

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:19am
Sima's picture

@fire with fire
Great question. Do all of us want to live this way? With the CEOs controlling everything? I don't!

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 1:57pm

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Submitted by mimi on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 2:04pm
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people can die of hunger and get sick by living in their beds, without having anyone to come by and help them to be dry and warm and fed with food or help to get access to their money so that they have enough left to eat or being checked out, if they are still living.

I have no love left for Selensky. I have no love for Putin.

Life is falling apart. I hope that those, who know everything, will fall as hard, as life is falling apart.

Not my day today.

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https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:23am
Sima's picture

@mimi
I'm scared of the same thing happening to my family, I'm sorry that you are having the same fears and worries!

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by on the cusp on Thu, 02/09/2023 - 8:32pm

since COVID hit, me and mine view demolished mom and pop stores, the small businesses,
down towns, square block after square block, businesses over and done. Houses falling down, as well. Nobody walking the sidewalks. Nobody going in and out of stores and businesses. The one store along a 30 mile stretch between towns is shuttered.
Seems it dwindles down to schools, churches, and hospitals.
I believe this was planned. After all, the Federal Reserve say unemployment is essential to lower inflation. At least we have each other from far and wide on a web site.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 4:26am
Sima's picture

@on the cusp
I hope we are wrong, but, bleh. If not planned, it has certainly been taken advantage of. Well, there is some hope. As you said, we have each other here, and there is a little bakery in my town which stayed open during the pandemic and is doing well, and my new gym is doing well. So there is some hope! Of course, the stores on either side of the bakery and near the gym have closed... damn.

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by mimi on Fri, 02/10/2023 - 5:03pm
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