A wrap-up of MAGA responses to the FBI raid

Zerohedge is a good place to go if you want to see everything the MAGA crowd might say without having to scour the internet for them.

This is stupid. Trump had already been asked for the documents. If the FBI found documents then Trump was the one who was in the wrong. Period.

This is also stupid. No president, not even Trump, can declassify a document by verbal command and the waving of a magic wand.

So the point is that the FBI was pro-Unabomber?

The guy retired in April.

I like it when the right-wing paints themselves as victims. Unlike the left-wing, which sticks strictly to the three identities (race, gender, sexual orientation), the right-wing will go totally off-road.

Garland didn't invent that definition.

However, the right-wing does have one point that I can't deny - there's been way too much leaking happening.

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If you've forgotten about or not really looked into it, the Deep State thanks you.
The host of characters and entities involved are so extensive and the illegal and unethical
activities involved are so extensive that a systematic accounting and reforms to prevent
a reoccurrence would be profoundly uncomfortable for some very powerful people.

For a *really* deep dive and explication, the work by Jeff Carlson covers all the essential bases in depth, but gives the basic outline of what went on at the outset:

Spygate: The True Story of Collusion
How America’s most powerful agencies were weaponized against President Donald Trump

By Jeff Carlson October 12, 2018 Updated: May 20, 2022
News analysis

...Although the details remain complex, the structure underlying Spygate—the creation of the false narrative that candidate Donald Trump colluded with Russia, and the spying on his presidential campaign—remains surprisingly simple:

1. CIA Director John Brennan, with some assistance from Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, gathered foreign intelligence and fed it throughout our domestic Intelligence Community.

2. The FBI became the handler of Brennan’s intelligence and engaged in the more practical elements of surveillance.

3. The Department of Justice facilitated investigations by the FBI and legal maneuverings while providing a crucial shield of nondisclosure.

4. The Department of State became a mechanism of information dissemination and leaks.

5. Hillary Clinton’s presidential campaign and the Democratic National Committee provided funding, support, and media collusion.

6. Obama administration officials were complicit, and engaged in unmasking and intelligence gathering and dissemination.

7. The media was the most corrosive element in many respects. None of these events could have transpired without their willing participation. Stories were pushed, facts were ignored, and narratives were promoted.

But isn't this, as a certain ex-girlfriend might have put it, 'water under the dam'? Well, not necessarily, *very* few of the perpetrators have suffered any repercussions and many occupy prominent positions, including high level positions in the 3rd Obama (aka 'Biden') administration. Trump pushed for release of more information, including that related to the involvement of foreign intelligence agencies but this was strongly resisted by the CIA and other alphabet agencies.

No president, not even Trump, can declassify a document by verbal command and the waving of a magic wand.

Well, yeah. But why would Trump be holding onto classified ordered documents that he *could* have ordered declassified?

Regarding the Spygate-related declassifications something altogether different may be going on.

It seems that Trump *did* order extensive declassifications (and a supporting memo from his Chief of Staff to that effect exists). The DOJ was requesting further redactions, though. They requested and received copies of the documents in question, but never released them.

So, did Trump keep copies of those? And, if so, are they truly classified if he, in fact, ordered them *declassified*?

From Human Events - reporting by Roberto Wakerell-Cruz

...
“So, if it was the Spygate documents that indeed is what they’re after, it could be a fight over whether or not the president actually declassified them. Because in this article, that John Solomon wrote a few months back, it says that the documents were then sent to the Department of Justice for further redactions,” Posobiec explained. “But then the Department of Justice never released the documents. The DOJ—I’m sure you’re sitting there thinking, ‘what Spygate documents—they were never released. The DOJ never put them out, even though the president signed them off to be declassified, and there’s a memo from Meadows, memorializing the fact that the president had done this.

“Do you see where I’m going with that? It then stands to reason; did the DOJ think or were they ‘tipped off’ by this so-called informer or a mole at Mar-a-Lago that perhaps President Trump did keep a copy of the Spygate documents? Could this whole thing be the DOJ trying to clean up their tracks to find the receipts? Because I’m going to say it right now, I’d totally believe that President Trump would not trust the same DOJ that had been spying on him, wouldn’t trust the FBI, and would say, ‘sure, I’ll send you guys a copy of the documents,’ but did he keep a copy for himself,” he added.

“Maybe it was photographed, maybe it was electronic copies. Whatever it is, do you think he would’ve kept a copy for himself? I’d say that wouldn’t surprise me. Let’s just say, look, you know, I’m not going betray any confidences or anything, but I will say this, of all the people “I’ve been talking to this week since that raid took place, a lot of people have been pointing to the idea that the Spygate documents may be involved in this, in some way.”

“If that’s true, you’re going to see a fight—we’re talking tons of documents that memorialize the lies of the FBI, the lies of the CIA, the lies of Christopher Steele, the lies of Jake Tapper, the lies of all these people going into this false dossier, the Steele dossier and Fusion GPS, the Clinton campaign, and the lies that led to the spying on Trump, and could it be that this is what it’s about,” Posobiec concluded.

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@Blue Republic

But why would Trump be holding onto classified ordered documents that he *could* have ordered declassified?

Why would Trump be claiming that the FBI planted the documents if they had been declassified?

If you've never forgotten about or not really looked into it, the Deep State thanks you.

You're welcome. And the ruling class thanks you for coming to the defense of a privileged billionaire.

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@Blue Republic 3rd Obama? If we don't count Trump, this is the 10th Reagan administration.

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snoopydawg's picture

@Battle of Blair Mountain

E60CB561-1B2C-46E2-AB88-112C86104504.jpeg

On a side note…

FFF434BA-5EE6-47A0-9F4F-E13137C69779.jpeg
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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

to enrage Trump supporters and to engender fear and loathing of Trump supporters among everyone else.

Calculated messaging like this:

To convince the gullible that anyone supporting a patriotic populist agenda is a mortal existential threat (appears to be working in some cases):

I go to zerohedge and see what the right-wing think every day. Do you know what they think?
They want me dead. Literally dead. They want to murder me and every other leftist in this country. Or if not murder, then imprison and kick us out of the country.

So, piss off Trump supporters and hope that at least a few will go off in violent and ill-considered ways. Have backup in the form of well-prepared false flag events to blame on them just in case not enough of them don't.

Some have waxed optimistic for MAGA R's as the raid has only enhanced Trump's support and counted it as a mistake or overreach on the part of the Biden DOJ. If the issue is the midterm electoral prospects they could be right.

But, is it intended that those elections actually take place? I'm guessing something like the following is what is intended:

Having engineered the 'problem' (crazed, violent MAGA types posing an existential threat), the PTB will then come to the rescue with a well-prepared 'solution': the assumption of emergency powers that will, among other features, include the cancellation and/or implementation of direct federal control of the upcoming elections which are otherwise going to be a blow-out loss for the Dems...

"A republic, if you can keep it..."

- B. Franklin

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snoopydawg's picture

ETA

This too also

But I’m sure that the walls are closing in on Trump.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

CB's picture

is Kabuki theatre - designed to divide the populace and detract the plebs from the real issues affecting America. Distraction is the main attraction in today's news. Politics is just proof of the human capacity for hypocrisy.

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snoopydawg's picture

@CB

Democrats just passed the climate change bill that opens up more areas for drilling including in the Gulf of Mexico and their highly vaunted drug price control isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. It’s Bush’s clean skies bill all over again, but shitlibs think it’s monumental.

Plus I think it’s an attempt to rile up Trump supporters into doing something violent. Biden’s got to find a way to implement his patriot act #2 somehow. People aren’t scared enough about the lengthy sentences the 1/6 people are getting. Stroll past cops and do a peaceful tour of the capital? Go to prison whilst the real crooks loot the economy. The tree that needs watering is going to shrivel up and die because the time for watering it has long sailed. Probably put to sea when Bush and Obama started militarizing cops.

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9 users have voted.

It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

to begin following RW media more, as I hear elsewhere that many of the counter talking points on the FBI search I've seen lately seem to have been copied and pasted from the Trump/GOP PR machines. TPs being tossed out constantly everyday in order to keep the public from concentrating too much on what DJT has done -- that's the real distraction happening now. A partial list below, probably forgetting some:

1) It's a purely Political prosecution.
2) They never prosecuted Hillary, Hunter, Obama for the same/worse etc
3) Ds are engaging in a preemptive coup
4) It's all just much ado about nothing and a hoax, just like Russiagate
5) Prez can declassify what he wants
6) T lawyers weren't allowed to observe the search
7) The required affidavit wasn't attached to the warrant a/o affidavit wasn't made public
8) There will be a fierce R backlash so the Ds had better back off
9) Those mean Ds are convicting poor Donald Trump without even a trial.
10) This is all just a D distraction from Biden's inflation and low-poll #s

When the law is against you, pound on the facts. When the facts are against you, pound on the law. And when both the law and the facts are against you, pound on the table!

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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

Ds have been convicting Trump in the media for 7 years since he declared that he was running. And yes there are 2 justice systems in America. It looks like Hunter was working as foreign lobbyist without registering as one which is one reason Manafort went to prison and he might be charged for tax evasion. These things have been known by the FBI for 3 years and yet there has been no charges against him. Plus Hillary’s BFF Podesta worked with Manafort and yet he walked.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg underscore my point. Don't look at why T's home had to be searched, might be too embarrassing in a legal/nat'l security way. Instead look over here! No, look over there! Let's go back and do some more flogging on a dead horse from a decade ago!

And yes there are 2 systems of justice. One for the rich and powerful, exemplified by billionaire Trump who can ignore and violate the laws with impunity (until now) as he's always been able to quickly lawyer up and avoid accountability. The other for the rest of us. Some of you would apparently like to continue that 2 separate but unequal systems tradition.

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@wokkamile is innocent until proven guilty.

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@on the cusp and he's also not above the law. But his fervent cultish backers believe he is above the law.

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@wokkamile he is innocent. Nothing wrong with that, since is the way in our criminal justice system is structured. It is never stupid or cultish to wait for a verdict before claiming guilt. The opposite is.

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@on the cusp believe he is innocent across the board, for everything. As Donald once put it himself, I can shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and still not lose my followers, and he was right. That is as clear a tell as possible of a cult following.

The issue of presumed innocence goes to fairness and due process, which the DOJ have given Donald throughout this process, including ample time to give back the pilfered docs. T's supporters have already pronounced him innocent, before not only a trial but before any charges have been filed. There is a clear attempt by his backers to try to thwart and put a stop to a legitimate attempt by the govt to enforce the law.

HIs backers and defenders are in effect announcing that to them Donald is above the law.

And shoe on the other foot, would we also see a fierce defense and strong expressions of outrage here if it were Hillary or Hunter or Obama under similar investigation? Of course not. We would see many posts applauding it, and wondering why it took so long, and there would be no talk of presumed innocence, FBI "Gestapo" tactics, or allegations of an unfair, purely political prosecution.

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@wokkamile n/t

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@on the cusp
In fact it's pretty fucking obvious that he isn't innocent.
If you or I were caught holding those very same documents under similar circumstances everyone in America would have already decided that we were guilty.
And they would be correct.

Buuuttt, he's Trump. So people will twist themselves into knots trying to come up with stupid scenarios to explain away his guilt.

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snoopydawg's picture

@wokkamile

Charged with collusion with Russia which is a pretty serious charge and yet it never happened because it was totally made up by his political opponent and investigated by the same agency now charging him with other crimes. Check the tweet above that talks about this.

But maybe this time there will really be a wolf.

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

@snoopydawg "charged" by legal authorities for that or anything else, yet. He was investigated on R-gate, and they came up empty, as I always suspected. Barking up the wrong tree, a nontroversy. We can hold that thought in mind and also believe he should be investigated and charged, if the evidence is there or can be found, in the areas of illegal possession of govt docs, election tampering, fraud and tax evasion, and probably one or two other things. Long list.

In the meantime, his legal/constitutional rights seem to be very well protected as the investigative process moves along. He has plenty of $$$ to hire a legal team or teams which can ensure that. And he has the Fox/OANN/Breitbart/GOP PR machines helping him in the COPO battle, which so far he seems to be losing.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

...is still alive and well, here. I am aware that many folks lack any awareness of how their bias twists their judgement and makes a joke of human rights.

If this is the common mindset of the pseudo-left — Julian Assange will continue to serve out his extra-judicial death sentence for revealing the truth about how the US behaves when it invades foreign nations. The deteriorating mental health, across the US population, and the general public swooning over the manly force of gestapo authority will make fair trials impossible. Not that most Americans can even afford a trial. The majority of those ovr-charged with crimes, whether or not they are innocent, will accept lifelong reputation-destroying punishments and prison — because the majority cannot afford to hire competent attorneys to take them to trial. Moreover, the punishment for defending one's innocence in a courtroom, and losing at a trial, is far more cruel and terrible that accepting punishment without a trial. That's how justice works in the US.

Look out with intellectual honesty over the tragic and blighted dystopia of this Mecca of incarceration. The persecution of Trump is not leveling the playing field for anyone.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

@Pluto's Republic
that the FBI and the rest of the state security forces were still partnered with their traditional ideological allies on the right-wing.

I don't. I'd prefer they were at eat other's throat.
Because when they are united they go after the Left.

Of course if you are reading this and you identify on the right then I can see why you would not be happy about all of this, and why you might accuse me of siding with the "