A wrap-up of MAGA responses to the FBI raid
Zerohedge is a good place to go if you want to see everything the MAGA crowd might say without having to scour the internet for them.
B. Wouldn't the FBI had known there was "classified" information at that time -- either before they arrived at the home or during their search? The most sensitive national security documents are supposed to be tracked by the relevant agency or department.
— Mark R. Levin (@marklevinshow) August 12, 2022
This is stupid. Trump had already been asked for the documents. If the FBI found documents then Trump was the one who was in the wrong. Period.
it says that President has right to declassify whatever he wants and that, under separation of powers, Congess cannot limit his authority.
So the claim that Trump lacked authority to declassify documents on "sources and methods" (because of statute) looks totally bogus. pic.twitter.com/PiMwMkuFZ3
— Stephen McIntyre (@ClimateAudit) August 12, 2022
This is also stupid. No president, not even Trump, can declassify a document by verbal command and the waving of a magic wand.
Former FBI Deputy Assistant Director Terry Turchie says Merrick Garland would not sign off on a warrant to raid the Unabomber, but signed off on a warrant to raid Trump. pic.twitter.com/FbPfHhRWQf
— The Post Millennial (@TPostMillennial) August 11, 2022
So the point is that the FBI was pro-Unabomber?
So the same guy who “blew the whistle” on Trump for “stealing boxes” leading to the Mar-a-Lago raid (David Ferriero) was sued in 2015 for failing to preserve Hillary Clinton’s emails.https://t.co/vUZZRyGfRs
— Merissa Hansen (@MerissaHansen17) August 11, 2022
The guy retired in April.
Beschloss is one of the half dozen historians Biden has been meeting with on a regular basis. Here he is casually floating the idea that Trump be executed for treason https://t.co/wYovpB22Vk
— Chuck Ross (@ChuckRossDC) August 12, 2022
I like it when the right-wing paints themselves as victims. Unlike the left-wing, which sticks strictly to the three identities (race, gender, sexual orientation), the right-wing will go totally off-road.
By Monday, the New York Times will be running a story about how Trump had the Ark of the Covenant
— Dan Gainor (@dangainor) August 12, 2022
The agency that ran the Russia collusion hoax, the Whitmer kidnap hoax, went to war against the parents of school-age children, and did nothing during the violent summer of 2020, the attacks on Supreme Court Justices, churches, and pregnancy centers, has thoughts. https://t.co/rQsIztYYBA
— Mollie (@MZHemingway) August 11, 2022
Garland didn't invent that definition.
This fishing expedition is so insane that under the federal legal definition of "Presidential Records," a McDonald's menu that Trump scrawled his lunch order on during a meeting in the Oval would be included (44 U.S.C. 2201).
The FBI raided Trump's house for that. INSANE. https://t.co/WP4ULjXS8f pic.twitter.com/A2zMLws370
— Sean Davis (@seanmdav) August 12, 2022
However, the right-wing does have one point that I can't deny - there's been way too much leaking happening.
Comments
CYA related to Spygate?
If you've forgotten about or not really looked into it, the Deep State thanks you.
The host of characters and entities involved are so extensive and the illegal and unethical
activities involved are so extensive that a systematic accounting and reforms to prevent
a reoccurrence would be profoundly uncomfortable for some very powerful people.
For a *really* deep dive and explication, the work by Jeff Carlson covers all the essential bases in depth, but gives the basic outline of what went on at the outset:
Spygate: The True Story of Collusion
How America’s most powerful agencies were weaponized against President Donald Trump
By Jeff Carlson October 12, 2018 Updated: May 20, 2022
News analysis
But isn't this, as a certain ex-girlfriend might have put it, 'water under the dam'? Well, not necessarily, *very* few of the perpetrators have suffered any repercussions and many occupy prominent positions, including high level positions in the 3rd Obama (aka 'Biden') administration. Trump pushed for release of more information, including that related to the involvement of foreign intelligence agencies but this was strongly resisted by the CIA and other alphabet agencies.
Well, yeah. But why would Trump be holding onto classified ordered documents that he *could* have ordered declassified?
Regarding the Spygate-related declassifications something altogether different may be going on.
It seems that Trump *did* order extensive declassifications (and a supporting memo from his Chief of Staff to that effect exists). The DOJ was requesting further redactions, though. They requested and received copies of the documents in question, but never released them.
So, did Trump keep copies of those? And, if so, are they truly classified if he, in fact, ordered them *declassified*?
From Human Events - reporting by Roberto Wakerell-Cruz
An answer
Why would Trump be claiming that the FBI planted the documents if they had been declassified?
You're welcome. And the ruling class thanks you for coming to the defense of a privileged billionaire.
@Blue Republic 3rd Obama? If we don't
Yep
On a side note…
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Part of the larger plan...
to enrage Trump supporters and to engender fear and loathing of Trump supporters among everyone else.
Calculated messaging like this:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AKelHoKXBFA]
To convince the gullible that anyone supporting a patriotic populist agenda is a mortal existential threat (appears to be working in some cases):
So, piss off Trump supporters and hope that at least a few will go off in violent and ill-considered ways. Have backup in the form of well-prepared false flag events to blame on them just in case not enough of them don't.
Some have waxed optimistic for MAGA R's as the raid has only enhanced Trump's support and counted it as a mistake or overreach on the part of the Biden DOJ. If the issue is the midterm electoral prospects they could be right.
But, is it intended that those elections actually take place? I'm guessing something like the following is what is intended:
Having engineered the 'problem' (crazed, violent MAGA types posing an existential threat), the PTB will then come to the rescue with a well-prepared 'solution': the assumption of emergency powers that will, among other features, include the cancellation and/or implementation of direct federal control of the upcoming elections which are otherwise going to be a blow-out loss for the Dems...
"A republic, if you can keep it..."
- B. Franklin
Yep pretty much…
ETA
This too also
But I’m sure that the walls are closing in on Trump.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Frankly, I believe the entire thing
is Kabuki theatre - designed to divide the populace and detract the plebs from the real issues affecting America. Distraction is the main attraction in today's news. Politics is just proof of the human capacity for hypocrisy.
Yup
Democrats just passed the climate change bill that opens up more areas for drilling including in the Gulf of Mexico and their highly vaunted drug price control isn’t worth the paper it’s written on. It’s Bush’s clean skies bill all over again, but shitlibs think it’s monumental.
Plus I think it’s an attempt to rile up Trump supporters into doing something violent. Biden’s got to find a way to implement his patriot act #2 somehow. People aren’t scared enough about the lengthy sentences the 1/6 people are getting. Stroll past cops and do a peaceful tour of the capital? Go to prison whilst the real crooks loot the economy. The tree that needs watering is going to shrivel up and die because the time for watering it has long sailed. Probably put to sea when Bush and Obama started militarizing cops.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
I probably need
to begin following RW media more, as I hear elsewhere that many of the counter talking points on the FBI search I've seen lately seem to have been copied and pasted from the Trump/GOP PR machines. TPs being tossed out constantly everyday in order to keep the public from concentrating too much on what DJT has done -- that's the real distraction happening now. A partial list below, probably forgetting some:
1) It's a purely Political prosecution.
2) They never prosecuted Hillary, Hunter, Obama for the same/worse etc
3) Ds are engaging in a preemptive coup
4) It's all just much ado about nothing and a hoax, just like Russiagate
5) Prez can declassify what he wants
6) T lawyers weren't allowed to observe the search
7) The required affidavit wasn't attached to the warrant a/o affidavit wasn't made public
8) There will be a fierce R backlash so the Ds had better back off
9) Those mean Ds are convicting poor Donald Trump without even a trial.
10) This is all just a D distraction from Biden's inflation and low-poll #s
When the law is against you, pound on the facts. When the facts are against you, pound on the law. And when both the law and the facts are against you, pound on the table!
Hillary:
Ds have been convicting Trump in the media for 7 years since he declared that he was running. And yes there are 2 justice systems in America. It looks like Hunter was working as foreign lobbyist without registering as one which is one reason Manafort went to prison and he might be charged for tax evasion. These things have been known by the FBI for 3 years and yet there has been no charges against him. Plus Hillary’s BFF Podesta worked with Manafort and yet he walked.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
You help me
And yes there are 2 systems of justice. One for the rich and powerful, exemplified by billionaire Trump who can ignore and violate the laws with impunity (until now) as he's always been able to quickly lawyer up and avoid accountability. The other for the rest of us. Some of you would apparently like to continue that 2 separate but unequal systems tradition.
Trump
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
That is correct
They believe
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
T's backers
The issue of presumed innocence goes to fairness and due process, which the DOJ have given Donald throughout this process, including ample time to give back the pilfered docs. T's supporters have already pronounced him innocent, before not only a trial but before any charges have been filed. There is a clear attempt by his backers to try to thwart and put a stop to a legitimate attempt by the govt to enforce the law.
HIs backers and defenders are in effect announcing that to them Donald is above the law.
And shoe on the other foot, would we also see a fierce defense and strong expressions of outrage here if it were Hillary or Hunter or Obama under similar investigation? Of course not. We would see many posts applauding it, and wondering why it took so long, and there would be no talk of presumed innocence, FBI "Gestapo" tactics, or allegations of an unfair, purely political prosecution.
Pure speculation
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I don't believe he is innocent
In fact it's pretty fucking obvious that he isn't innocent.
If you or I were caught holding those very same documents under similar circumstances everyone in America would have already decided that we were guilty.
And they would be correct.
Buuuttt, he's Trump. So people will twist themselves into knots trying to come up with stupid scenarios to explain away his guilt.
7 years of Trump is a criminal
Charged with collusion with Russia which is a pretty serious charge and yet it never happened because it was totally made up by his political opponent and investigated by the same agency now charging him with other crimes. Check the tweet above that talks about this.
But maybe this time there will really be a wolf.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
He wasn't
In the meantime, his legal/constitutional rights seem to be very well protected as the investigative process moves along. He has plenty of $$$ to hire a legal team or teams which can ensure that. And he has the Fox/OANN/Breitbart/GOP PR machines helping him in the COPO battle, which so far he seems to be losing.
I see Trump Derangement Syndrome
...is still alive and well, here. I am aware that many folks lack any awareness of how their bias twists their judgement and makes a joke of human rights.
If this is the common mindset of the pseudo-left — Julian Assange will continue to serve out his extra-judicial death sentence for revealing the truth about how the US behaves when it invades foreign nations. The deteriorating mental health, across the US population, and the general public swooning over the manly force of gestapo authority will make fair trials impossible. Not that most Americans can even afford a trial. The majority of those ovr-charged with crimes, whether or not they are innocent, will accept lifelong reputation-destroying punishments and prison — because the majority cannot afford to hire competent attorneys to take them to trial. Moreover, the punishment for defending one's innocence in a courtroom, and losing at a trial, is far more cruel and terrible that accepting punishment without a trial. That's how justice works in the US.
Look out with intellectual honesty over the tragic and blighted dystopia of this Mecca of incarceration. The persecution of Trump is not leveling the playing field for anyone.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
Perhaps you would prefer
that the FBI and the rest of the state security forces were still partnered with their traditional ideological allies on the right-wing.
I don't. I'd prefer they were at eat other's throat.
Because when they are united they go after the Left.
Of course if you are reading this and you identify on the right then I can see why you would not be happy about all of this, and why you might accuse me of siding with the "Deep State" or TDS. As opposed to actually listening to what I'm saying.
Oh, stop.
I thought you made important contributions to this essay. Your links definitely didn't come from the Left. But that doesn't matter. They point to a credible pattern that finally adds some logic and context to this unprecedented event. If the last seven years have been about anything, they're about revising the reality of the past.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
I don't mean to offend
but it finally occurred to me that what I thought was a left-wing blog might be a lot more diverse than I assumed.
No offense taken.
I've been having the same thoughts, myself.
The language is so manipulated now, and the meanings of words are being altered. We are struggling to communicate and influence others, particularly on the Left — an ideology that was never allowed to fully develop and establish a political presence in the US.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
Light dawns over Marblehead
(a Boston/Eastern Massachusetts saying).
Anybody can come here and speak their piece, as long as they maintain civility. They may be ignored, they may be (politely) disagreed with, they may have their points rebutted, but as long as everyone remains civil, all is well.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Bingo
Not that anyone charged under the espionage act can get a fair trial in the first place. It’s kabuki theater where the accused doesn’t get to put up a defense and the verdict has already been decided.
But just like the 1/6 scam I’m keeping my mind open to Trump being a patsy again for whatever nefarious reasons are behind the raid which the left media has been told to stop calling it a raid because it looks bad. Everyone saw the information about the Trump speech happening on that day and the media was all talking about the players who might be at it and how much violence there might be and yet we’re supposed to believe that all security agencies were caught off guard? Please. Biden’s patriot act #2 was already written and just needed a Pearl Harbor to go into effect.
And look just as the CDC retired all requirements for Covid a squirrel comes along and distracts us from how bogus they were in the first place. Or the parasite class just wants more people to die. Gawd only knows the true agenda of the elite.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Hi snoopy
I can’t help but filter Trump through his original public tv show, and I never even saw one. I think the best we can expect of any political move from any people of political power is a magically super- charged change of consciousness. It’s improbable, but we still have our immediate personal choice, and mental health to care for.
The US became a virtual reality 20 years ago.
Americans are effectively isolated from the world, and they are immersed in a virtual reality, delivered by the current giants of technology and media. All, in service to the Ruling Elite.
The Ukrainians are similarly contained as puppets, in their own fake democracy, blindly making the final sacrifice in service to the Ruing strategists, who believe that Ukraine is the doorway to capturing the entire Global Empire.
Such is the gravity that pulls us along, as we shuffle into the future.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
They are out there, Pluto
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
You see TDS
Meanwhile with the investigation of T possibly leading to charges, a trial, and possibly conviction (slender though the chances be), we might be taking the first steps to achieving not a perfect sense of justice but a better system of justice where even the high and mighty, including former presidents and billionaires, are finally brought to book, in a refreshing turning of the tables. And the success will be seen in the sincere effort to hold him to account, not the end result. Though I am hopeful such end results in the Don never again being able to blight and embarrass our country with his presence in the WH.
TSDS was partly caused by Russiagate
IMHO, Trump Supporter Derangement Syndrome has been mainly caused by right-wing media and by the Democrat's strategic and willful betrayal of the Left.
But all of this was enabled by the idiotic Russiagate konspiracy that Hillary invented.
Because of Russiagate, people with TSDS could always find a reason to deny Trump's real and actual crimes.
Trump really did incite a riot on January 6.
Trump really is guilty of trying to overturn an election in Georgia.
Trump really is guilty of tax crimes in NY.
Trump really is guilty of mishandling confidential documents at Mar-A-Lago
It's so f*cking obvious that all of those things are true that you almost have to shut down your brain to believe otherwise.
Sounds like you could be describing
the situation of the J-6 arrestees. Like that of Andrew Taake - confined pre-trial for more than a year, so far 'represented' by an AWOL public defender and facing a potentially 80+ year sentence...
https://americangulag.org/j6-prisoner-punished-diesel-therapy-public-def...
(scroll down for Taake's own account of his life prior to J-6, the events of that day and his subsequent arrest (just one of 800 or so) and incarceration).
Not that under or non-prosecution can't have negative - to the point of fatal - consequences, also:
story here
The deceased victim:
Donald A. Pierce, 82
The accused perp:
Yes, the playing field should be leveled - but the credibility of people demanding accountability for those at high levels is seriously undermined when they tend to dismiss or excuse violent, anti-social acts occurring a retail level.
And, yes, by all means...
The treatment of the people who were at the capital
is beyond abhorrent and no one regardless of which side you are on should be okay with it. Solitary confinement for trespassing? Dr. Gold was sentenced to 6 months in prison for walking into the capital through doors that were open? Trespassing is usually a misdemeanor, but she and many others have been found guilty by brainwashed jurors or took a plea deal because of a possibly longer sentence if they risked a trial. And let’s not forget the possibility that there were FBI infiltrators in the crowd that the whole fcking world knew was going to be there that day.
They had been protesting peacefully until cops started shooting tear gas and rubber bullets into them. Hey where is Ray Ebbs?
And for gawd’s sake was it necessary to send 30 armed agents who were only looking for documents? Doesn’t anyone else think that might have been overkill? Did they think that they’d be met with armed Trump supporters? Anyone who doesn’t see a problem with that I don’t know what to say to them.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Overkill is what cops DO
They are bullies and cowards, and they only feel safe in swarms. This goes for all the cop-type agencies, most if not all of which have "benefited" from Israeli paramilitary training.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
True
They are trained by Israel to see us as their enemy. More people should be aware of that.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
My greatest concern
...has been that this unexpected over-reach of emergency justice, it could explode the nation's political equilibrium — and inspire a populist rebellion to smack down the Democrats, who are so goddamn annoying, anyway. They were already on thin ice for pushing a mentally defective candidate into the Presidency.
It's no secret how Americans are leaning. When you look at a map of the counties, the US gives off a dull red glow. As ever more intense propaganda narratives are pushed onto the people — in order to manipulate them politically — the people increasingly lose their critical faculties, and cannot discern truth from lies. They become selfish and resentful and republican. A good example of this is the Uighur genocide in Xinjiang, China. Most Americans have no idea if this is the truth or a lie, and they don't know how to verify it. Nor can they discern when the government has a motive for lying about it. Instead, they are forced to blindly believe whatever the Government-Media Complex tells them. Or to doubt the government and become a social outcast.
I've been sampling non political public boards like Reddit and Craigslist. At the moment, I think that Democrats may be on shaky ground.
Here's the bottom line: The correct questions for the discerning onlooker to ask, are the ones you posed:
What was so pressing that the DOJ had to launch a Roger-Stone-style guns-drawn raid on Donald Trump (was the press invited, too?)? Was this not based on information and sworn statements that the DOJ has had for a very long time. Why the impressive cop-show drama now? If there is an FBI cover-up and stall tactic involved, as there was with with the two-and-a-half year Mueller investigation — that could backfire. They better have a big reason and a logical motive for this dramatic stunt — or things could get very unpredictable.
Populations don’t like wars. They have to be lied into it.
That means we can be “truthed” into peace. — Julian Assange
Exactly
One person on orange state has made up a scenario in her head that Trump was working on behalf of Putin or Kim or the Saudis and the echo chamber took that as facts that have been proven and they all went further down the rabbit hole. Trump isn’t smart enough to come up with the plan on his own so someone had to be telling him what to do. Another person posted a tweet from Julia Davis, propagandist galore about how a Russian TV station said that Russia has already seen the documents.
As for the armed raid being overkill it’s been known for some time that Trump had some documents and he was working with the FBI on them and that in June they had a lock put on them. So 2 months later they decided that they couldn’t wait another minute to take them back? You’re right that there should be a good explanation for the armed response. But like lookout said democrats have been going after Trump people and some like Stone also got the armed response treatment. At least the presstitues weren’t forewarned about it.
Remember that democrats started embracing FBI, other intelligence agencies and ex military for congress in 2016. I wrote an essay about it back then. That seems to be when shitlibs became lovers of everything that they used to be against. And as you say Americans have lost their critical thinking skills because they are exposed to so much propaganda. Also remember that democrats and the media treated Bush like they did Trump, but Bush had Cheney making sure that empire continued. Trump said that he wanted to stop it.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Comment from someone I’ve long admired
who has drunk the propaganda koolaid and has gone down the anti Trump rabbit hole. She and others think that Trump should be in prison for the information they have read. Shitlibs have gone from wanting to see justice to locking people up before they have a trial. And they think it’s the republicans who are the fascists?
As have many of the writers on WSWS
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
The nation's "political
equilibrium" has been under attack and at risk for years, well before the feds were required to pay a visit to Donald's large luxury suite at MAL. It's been underway at least since the overwhelmingly white Tea Party far-right rebellion emerged, Koch Bros-backed, as Obama took office. And the seeds of our current disequilibrium, democracy teetering on the brink, probably were planted ca 1980 as that election saw many lib Ds defeated and a purging of those from the ranks of what used to be called the liberal wing of the GOP, as that party became more and more extremist to the far right where it reached about its nadir of extremism in conman Trump.
As to popularity, Rs were already on thin ice for pushing a mentally defective candidate into the Presidency, and now we must hope for a strong DP campaign in the fall to rescue us from more Trumpism with a R-majority congress.
And thank goodness we don't decide on party or individual candidate popularity by tallying up and determining favorites by who won a county. Good grief. What a pinched and distorted way of evaluating popularity, twisted in ways that of course favor the GOP perspective. Tiny population red states like KS and IA, both about 3m people, have 105 and 99 counties respectively. That's almost twice the number of counties in CA, population 40m.
As to better indicia of popularity, the polls I've seen lately show Ds nudging up overall in the midterm races, certainly in a better position than they were just 3 months ago. But we'll see. Prices coming down at the gas pump, the recent IRA bill passed, and the Roe reversal all work in Ds favor, as the overwhelming vote in KS showed. And the news, which needs further verification, that T may have been keeping govt docs containing nuke secrets certainly won't play well with the public.