Do I Really Need to Worry About Hillary’s Emails? Yes. She Should Be Indicted.
This article is extensive and it thoroughly details the legal issues and outlines the entire subject matter in a comprehensive straightforward manner. It is way too long to quote sections in any meaningful manner to do it justice, therefore I implore you to click on the link and read it for yourself.
IT IS A MUST READ.
And, yes, I think it is clear from this article that Hillary Rodham Clinton will be indicted.
Do I Really Need to Worry About Hillary’s Emails? Yes. She Should Be Indicted.
Hillary Clinton’s email scandal is one of the most important, yet undiscussed issues of the 2016 election. Despite how long the media has been covering it, I don’t think most people really understand what’s going on. Almost everyone I know is genuinely unsure of what exactly she did wrong and as a result are more willing to accept the scandal as nothing more than a partisan, or sexist, effort to bring her down (me 3 days ago). The disinterest in the scandal seems to be cemented on the left as a result of Bernie Sanders refusing to attack her on the issue thus far in the campaign; something the Republican nominee will certainly do. So why are so many Republicans convinced this is a scandal that should topple the presumptive Democratic nominee for President? Do I really need to be worried?
Yes, you need to be worried.
Despite being a mostly liberal Democrat and a Hillary admirer, I’ve come to the conclusion that Hillary Clinton and her aides not only violated numerous federal criminal statutes, but may have conducted a cover up to hide incriminating evidence – the likes of which forced Richard Nixon to resign as President. This article was intended to be a quick, digestible piece to help everyone get caught up on the scandal, but I really had no idea how complex this issue was. Here is the takeaway – I believe the FBI will refer Hillary Clinton for indictment for a violation of Section 1924 and Section 793 of Title 18 US Criminal Code dealing with deletion, retention and transmission of classified documents. If prosecuted and convicted, the punishment would be some combination of a fine, a year in prison or 10 years in prison. The implications for the Presidential race will be discussed.
Comments
...yAWn...
Wake me when the rapture is over and we'll get this party started.
zzzzzzzzzz...
In other words
tl;dr
" In the beginning, the universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry, and is generally considered to have been a bad move. -- Douglas Adams, The Hitch Hiker's Guide to the Galaxy "
Well, as I said, I do believe it is a *must* read.
This is a major liability for the Democratic Party.
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
It is rather telling that...
It is rather telling that the first 2 comments — FreakFlagFly & boriscleto:
...which are saying this subject is a "yawn" & "too long;didn't read" are both basically screaming the same meme of "nothing-burger" (as you noted) ... as if any subject that critically concerns the election of the next president could possibly be a "yawn" or not important enough to take the time to read merely because it is "too long" ... as if ... yeah, looks to me like you've hit a nerve, sensetolisten, and it also looks to me like certain folks are officially concerned with attempting to discourage the discussion of Hillary's Email Server on caucus99 using the same-old-same-old insidious memes... yes, my friends, caucus99 is now officially on their radar...
good
time to play hard ball
Please do keep posting information on this email topic, sensetolisten, it is well appreciated!
(((../\..)))
Let's not get carried away in paranoia here now
No one is screaming 'nothing burger'.
Please don't confuse criticism of the presentation for criticism of the evidence presented.
Some of us found the article so poorly written that it was too difficult to get all the way through it.
There isn't criticism of the evidence, only criticism of the writing and some of the conclusions.
And besides, many of us are fully aware of the evidence presented in the article. This 'Email Scandal' has been going on for over a year now. I saw nothing new in the article.
As noted below, a good edit of the piece could make all the difference.
With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU
I'm not big on the email scandal
or haven't been, but I did read the entire article and it makes valid points about Clinton being in serious trouble over this. If this were anyone but Hillary Clinton, based on what I read, she would be indicted.
One example shows her intent:
As a former attorney, I know that can be used as evidence to show that Clinton acted knowingly , an element of one of the crtimes she is under investigation for violating. This kid actually did a pretty decent job researching this and laying out all the legal issues involved.
That said, I don't for one minute believe that the Obama administration's DOJ will file an indictment against her. She's is TPTI (Too powerful to indict).
Nonetheless it will give the Republicans plenty of shit (and this is a legitimate issue) to use against her in the general campaign.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Obama
Interesting comments. I have followed the issue for awhile mainly from a national security perspective. It had raised the ire of many involved in this field because of the standard they are held to protect classified information.
It creates a dilemma for the Obama Administration, whether to protect his former SOS and risk casting a shadow over his legacy or letting the justice system decide. For Obama's sake I hope he does not intervene.
The Obama dilemma could become acute.
Once the FBI issues its report, the Obama administration will have to decide how long to stonewall before making a decision. If Obama wants to maintain a hands-off relationship to any further inquiry, I don't see how he can avoid naming an independent prosecutor to avoid the appearance of political involvement. If he does that, Clinton's campaign is under a much deeper shadow throughout the campaign season, and things get a lot more problematic for her.
If Obama doesn't put the report in the hands of an independent prosecutor, Congress will be all over it and will have their Hillarypalooza throughout the campaign season anyway.
The only escape for Clinton is a squeaky-clean FBI report, and even then Congress will be braying for hearings. So maybe that's not an escape either. Clintonites are living in a fool's paradise if they think this is just going to go away.
Please help support caucus99percent!
Excellent summary
Even if Hillary herself escapes but one or more of her staff ends up taking a fall, IMO it is curtains for her campaign. The Democratic party is foolish to allow her to continue this charade unless they are very sure that Biden can step in for her. I still believe Biden is Plan B, but the longer this goes on, the more likely the Democratic party will implode. I have always thought that the Clintons would be the final nail in the Democratic party coffin, regardless of what happens in this investigation. And sadly, there is no way that the party establishment is going to rally around Sanders. I hope Bernie stays until the very last state has held its primary to defy the establishment and Hillary and Bill Clinton (loathsome people).
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
The obvious dilemma: Do you allow the indictment to go forward
or do you shield her?
If the former, should it come after she gets the requisite number of delegates, that loses the race in November. If it doesn't go forward, then the conspiracy/cover-up charge from the R nominee (Trump or Cruz at this point) will win them the race.
If the Hilbots are so damned concerned about the Supreme Court and women's rights as the pretend to be online, then they should worry about this; instead, they close their eyes, plug their ears, and yell, "Lalalalalalalalalalala I can't hear you!"
Whistling past the grave yard is not a good thing.
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
There is no dilemma. HRC is going to jail.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
No doubt she violated laws
Only doubt is, is America a nation of laws.
And, with all due respect to John Adams, we all know in our guts it is not.
Might makes right
That was easy. Next!
Was Spiro Agnew the last big fish to suffer the consequences?
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Well, Nixon *did* have to resign
under direct threat of impeachment.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I was just thinking of Nixon while reading this
rather long piece. Nixon's crime was the coverup - I'm not even convinced that he knew about the break in before hand. Nixon resigned, people were angry. Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon, people became even angrier.
The Clinton's have weathered one impeachment for Bill, do they think they could weather a second for Hillary? Maybe Hillary believes she could become president before this cat is out of the bag and somehow contain it. Who knows what they think. My biggest problem with both Clinton's is that they show an amazing lack of common sense. They have spent years denying situations that most people, particularly attorneys, would avoid. Yet, the Clinton's rush in, convinced that they can manage all.
The fact that she went to the trouble of setting up her private system in light of becoming Secretary of State, alone is a huge red flag, no matter how she protests. The fact that classified information was passed around on Hillary's private email account makes me wonder if it was made available to the benefactors of the Clinton Global Initiative. The whole thing stinks, and is standard operating procedure for a woman who would be president. A woman who grudgingly admits that she has "made mistakes". Unfortunately, the mistakes she has made have been whoppers, not easily dismissed. I think she disqualifies herself.
Interesting comparison.
Comey is our secret weapon
" If this were anyone but Hillary Clinton, based on what I read, she would be indicted."
And if it were anyone but Comey heading the FBI investigation I would have been more worried that a recommendation to indict would never be passed down. It appears he's been frustrated before by the Clintons willful interference in investigations and ability to skirt the legal edges of what's allowable (the Marc Rich pardon, among others, foiled one of his investigations into pay to play).
This doesn't mean Lynch, or a Grand Jury, will actually get an indictment, but it will be one more political liability and cudgel for the GOP to use against them.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
A grand Jury WILL indict. This is a slam dunk.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
my background research on
my background research on this event shows that her meeting was likely during her visit to the Middle East, at the time that she was working with Saudi Arabia to organize the overthrow of Assad.
The talking points were for some meeting that occurred while she was out of country and she published an OP ed the very next day in the Saudi Arabian owned middle eastern press out of London for a call to Assad not to oppose foreign intervention.
If you do not understand that being part of the "establishment" is a slur in the minds of 99% of the U.S. population then you are completely out of touch and probably are one.
When you respond with "yawn" to this topic...
are you suggesting that this is a "nothing-burger?"
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
well, i read the beginning
but i'm not sure she's clarifying and, quite frankly, i'm not sure if she's versed enough.
btw, will not vote for hillary so that is not my motive for this response.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Really? I found it extremely clarifying.
In fact, I found it to be the most clarifying piece I have read to-date.
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
Me too. Having just finished reading the link
this morning, I completely agree...
It makes me wonder if pfiore8 is reading the same link as we are.
(((../\..)))
Might be something big or nothing at all.
For me, it's not worth discussing until some official charge or accusation is formally made by some agency or authority with the gravitas to make it an issue with consequences.
I have no interest in speculating. It's exhausting and a waste of energy for me.
But knock yourself out. Maybe you'll find the smoking gun. I honestly hope so.
Meanwhile, I'll be napping and waiting for the rapture.
Good luck.
And in contrast, I find it inordinately important to discuss.
Because, if this is a serious liability, and I do believe that it is, then Democrats voting in the Democratic Primary need to know about it so that they do not vote in the primary for a candidate who is going to be indicted. The fact that Democrats at TOP have ignored this issue is one of the biggest travesties of this primary.
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
Yeah, and I hope it destroys them.
I hope they continue to ignore it until someone cracks it wide open. Like I said, it's something or nothing. I can't be bothered until charges are leveled by someone with authority. I'm glad you are the one worried about the Democrats because I'm not. Sink or swim, I could care less.
#NMFTG
Unfortunately
"Like I said, it's something or nothing."
The problem being the GOP is expert at making something from nothing, and however this turns out it's more than nothing, which is plenty enough for the GOP to make a mountain out of it.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
The rapture is over rated...you know
that when they came for the tares they took the weeds and left the grain...just sayin'.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
I'd love to see it
but I'll believe it when I see it.
IANAL, so I can't dispute or protest your selection of statute there. And I can't imagine them ever actually putting her in jail for it--but if her actions truly warrant it in the end, then stick it to her bank account with some serious fines and disqualify her for ANY office going forward. Period. There's a whole bunch of Americans who happen to be of a mind that the whole investigation is just phony baloney and will never happen, and they're watching closely. So if the FBI can indict her, then they need to quit dicking around and get it done before even more people start calling bullshit.
In the meantime, it's the one reason I'm damned glad that people all over the US have seen fit to donate to Sanders enough cash to go all the way to the convention. But what happens after the convention if Sanders walks away with, say, 45% of the delegates and Clinton gets 55, and they get through the nominating process and nominates her? Does he get to be some kind of alternate if she gets indicted and drops out?
Well, for what it's worth,
I am virtually certain she WILL be indicted.
I have zero doubt.
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
We're all hoping she gets indicted, arrested, hand-cuffed.
And... it's important to understand the issues well enough to judge if the authorities are acting properly.
There's about 12,000 light years of bullshit on this very subject on the internet at the moment.
We just don't know yet. We know immunity has been given to one person and we know there is an FBI investigation somehow related to emails. The head of the FBI will be publicly explaining this all to us at some point in time, hopefully sooner.
I believe the motives of the author were genuine, and not psyops or propaganda BECAUSE, it's an impossible read.
I tried, I had to skip stuff to find stuff, and the more I found the more I skipped.
It was just too hard to read the whole thing, sorry.
With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU
Is a glorious perp walk out her mansion in the
Hamptons to much to ask for?
"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020
Damning information
"I tried, I had to skip stuff to find stuff, and the more I found the more I skipped."
I had the same issue. I ended up doing a search on "Blumenthal" and oh, shit. That alone was extremely damning, and has to piss off Obama.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
Communications from an *AOL* account!?!?!?!?
The most INSECURE email system on the planet - and Blumenthal was Jerkass enough to use it to send the Secretary of State highly sensitive information?!?!?!?!?!
Not nearly enough has been made of that, possibly because people just don't realize the significance.
Teh Stupid, it burns! On all sides!
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Ah, yes AOL...
Remember the days when you might receive an AOL startup disc in just about every other US mail postal drop (well it seemed that way at least).
I didn't realize that it was still a 'thing'. And Blumenthal was partaking??
The Clintons and their courtiers are seriously out to lunch on these things.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I used to work for those creeps
(AOL, not the Clintons), so I have a pretty good idea of just how awful they are.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Hey! I still have an AOL account! I resemble that remark!
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
(blinks)
The AOL?
That can't possibly be right....
If Hillary is the nominee and she gets indicted during the
the General Election, I am sure she will not withdraw, and she WILL loose the election.
Say hello to PRESIDENT TRUMP.
This is THE major issue of this primary, I believe, and any Democrat who ignores it is being irresponsible, in my opinion.
Hillary Clinton has NOT been vetted. The FBI's criminal investigation of Hillary is a liability which should preclude her from being the Democratic nominee. FULL STOP.
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
An indicted presidential candidate??
Wouldn't that be a first?
I'm sure The Party would baulk at that.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I'm not so sure about that.
It appears the president had knowledge of the private server and communicated with her through the unsecured emails.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
This raises an interesting issue
First, let me say that the article (almost book length) was superb. It was very time-consuming to read but I read it all. A huge number of citations were included, to many of which I read, and all of which were on point. Ad hominem arguments, like "He's only 22 years old. What does he know?" are just plain stupid. Einstein developed both his general and special relativity theories in his twenties.
Anybody that can excuse themselves with TLDR (too long, didn't read) has abrogated any justification for having her/his views looked at. If you want to be a dumb-ass, join the Republicans--they need more people like that.
This article is worthy of very wide dissemination. There are two practical issues with this article, despite it's thoroughness and overall excellence:
1. It is far too long for the general public to digest,
2. Unless one has legal training, one cannot know whether the arguments are legally persuasive (although to my lay knowledge, the points raised about Federal Violations seemed convincing to me).
Now, to the interesting question: if President Obama personally communicated with HRC by non-secure email, would he not then, be culpable of the same charges leveled at HRC? Would this be grounds for his impeachment if the issue was determined that Hillary did violate the law(s) AND President Obama was therefore knowingly complicit in sending or receiving emails from his secretary of state? This latter issue will be a profound stain on his legacy, if adjudication of email felony reveals criminal activity on the part of Hillary. Who knows where this may all lead.
Alligator, there are some problems with the piece imo
first, it is way too long and since this isn't a mystery novel, the main premise should be upfront and clear. it isn't.
some of the issues I have with this piece: the author talks about Clinton deleting her e-mails and, according to Clinton in an interview with Andrea Mitchell, she said her attorneys deleted the e-mails.
there is also some discussion of marked or unmarked classifications and intent. Intentional or unintentional, mishandling of marked or UNMARKED classified material is a crime. It should have also been made clearer in the piece that Clinton is one the few people who gets to determine the classification of material. So, in this case, it isn't really a matter of retro classification (meaning a non classified doc gets classified or an unclassified doc is once again retro classified)... this is a matter of retroactively marking docs that were classified (but unmarked) at inception.
Why is this distinction important? Because Clinton was responsible to know the difference, marked or unmarked.
the last point: from what I've read and heard in interviews, the original sin is the server. Hillary maintains this was permissible but how is that possible? It isn't. and what is or is not the gov'ts case is simply speculation unless we know for sure there is a sitting grand jury on this case (we might be able to assume there is, but there is no PUBLIC declaration of such). And about some of the writer's references to "grand jury":
"If this case is prosecuted and heard by a grand jury..." and "what I think a grand jury could also find her guilty of is a felony." Grand juries can indict someone but members do not judge guilt or innocence, they simply agree there is enough evidence to send the case forward to a trial.
having said all that, I think the writer undertook a daunting task and I don't mean to diminish her effort. but as with everything around Hillary Clinton, we must be as brief and complete and clear as possible. She is a genius at one thing: NOISE. you can't counter her noise by making the same noise.
just sayin.
what is critical is that she is put on trial for this and held accountable. and then maybe we can go after Wall Street and Gov. Snyder et al. the breakdown of our society and the biggest threat to this world is our lack of will to hold the powerful accountable. it is the only way to stop them. consequence. hard time. losing everything. no entitlement.
i mean think about the Gov. of Michigan knowingly poisoning people . . . he obviously didn't think he'd have to pay for it. And that we as a country haven't gone completely berserk over it still amazes me. i can't get people on my FB feed to share it or even comment on it... can you imagine?
now i'm rambling again.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
It's definitely worth noting
about "too long"---I have done actual "editing" professionally, and can see where it could be made snappier in places, to grab the reader's attention. If the OP is willing, I can look into this further--this is far too important, and the superb facts here far too well-researched to have it fall by the wayside un-heard/un-read. Thing is, I've never been all that great at "grabbing the reader" initially, when there's so much dry, factual stuff to be imparted.
Because, yeah, "noise". It makes me nuts, how much Rovian noise this woman's campaign deliberately goes out of its way to produce. If you're going to get peoples' attention, you do have to cut through it pretty cleanly and get to the point, or their eyes will glaze over and they'll move on...
I think that would be a very good idea, luna
this absolutely needs some editing, a far better intro, and to clean up some errors that can sink an effort like this; ie, the grand jury finding someone guilty is just plain wrong.
anything attributed to Clinton must be double checked because some of it we just repeat; ie, she deleted her private e-mails. but, she claims, she didn't. and then what about the lawyers?
I should have said what I liked about the piece as well... but again, this needed stronger more concise language: Clinton trying to get out in front of this story by making it about "is" "is" . . . the material wasn't marked, i didn't know, blah blah blah . . . and then the right wing conspiracy bullshit. Believe you me, nobody has worn out more tin foil hats than I have, but you do begin to get a feel for what is worthy of your CT attention and what is not . . . Clinton is sloppy when she thinks she can't be touched and there is no right wing conspiracy . . . it's power after power.
noise. we just can't seem to get out from under it.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
"the original sin is the server."
For me, it was enough-way back long time ago-that a person with the unabashed and stark naked ambition of a Hillary Clinton would jeopardize her greatest ambition by doing something that is so obviously wrong (and, therefore, terrible optics) if not illegal AND that had zero chance of not being discovered. She of the "right wing conspiracies", of "the glass ceiling", of the "everyone blames me for everything because I am a woman" KNOWING that they were out to get her decides to ignore required protocol in an area where she can be accused of compromising national security ALL for the sake of "convenience". That is all I have to know. Either she is too stupid, too arrogant, or too delusional to be considered for ANY elected office. Any rational person is forced to ask him/herself: "what might such a person do next?" If any one has another possible "why she did it" I would like to add it to the list.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Like husband, like wife
Bill knew they were out to get him, would use anything they could against him, and he still couldn't keep it in his pants.
And as for Weiner and his cyber-flashing, there's yet another member of this quadrille who REALLY should have known better....
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner, Ed.
What have I done to be called a dumb ass?
I jumped into this immediately after reading your post. Spent the entire day on it. (nothing better to do).
I almost cried when I saw your reply. It's the first time anyone here has called me a bad name.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Holy cow! that comment I made was not about you or
your comment. I don't know how my comment ever showed up underneath yours as a reply to you. This was entirely unintended. The reply was to a different commentator. Please forgive me if I have given you offense as none was intended.
Shrill indicted?
I doubt it. Yeah, Shrill is arrogant and has no common sense, BUT......
Florida has an indicted, white collar criminal governor named Rick Scott. He was re-elected. End of comment.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Aw, now, Voldemort was found "not guilty"
IIRC. Which would have helped his idiot voters square their conscience away--you know, with the old "Rick Scott didn't do nothin' wrong or he would have gone to jail for it..." Jedi mind trick.
Beyond that, I don't think they'd indict Clinton unless they knew they could nail her dead to rights. The idea that they're actually talking about it is quite fascinating, though--if there was no there there at all, there wouldn't even be speculation of this nature in MSM.
And I keep trying to remember that--supposedly--she's no friend of FBI chief Comey, but we all know he's a sleaze, too, so he might have a price she is willing to pay, to keep her ass out of court and out of jail.
Yeah, governor Skeletor
took the Fifth 75 freaking times and I had family who voted for him and bragged that they voted for the "crook."
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
No ones ignoring it, we're all praying for indictment.
Even the folks that don't pray!
From my looking into it online, I conclude the FBI should arrest her for not protecting National Secrets well enough and for Record Retention violations.
But no one ever listens to me. (Lotta bad crap woulda not happened if ya all woulda been listening to me world). There's nothing we can do now but wait sensetolisten. Unless some leak of some kind presents itself, we just have to wait for the FBI and hope that guy in charge is honorable.
If Hillary is the Dem nom, then the Dems will lose I figure, too many people hate her. But if she does win the GE she'll be impeached on day one, probably as she's being sworn in. So we'll go through all that again.
We're paying attention. We're with you. I wanna see her in handcuffs.
With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU
Worse than that
It's not going to be Trump, they're going to weasel that nomination away from him. I remain convinced the GOP is going to make that happen somehow so John Kasich can sleaze in there. And Hillary would lose to him in a New York minute...
Been saying we need to watch out for Kasich for months. He looks
and acts reasonable but he's a real viper behind that nice guy come on.
Cunning plan
"Say hello to PRESIDENT TRUMP. "
I think Bill talked Trump into running knowing the Right would eat it up and that it would be an insurance policy to help Hillary in case she was indicted.
"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me
I think the plan was...
Run tRump, get the Republicans all fired up and crazy...
Then talk ridiculous crap and lose popularity and drop out...
After taking out the biggest guns...
Get it down to the "Unelectable Crazy Teabaggers,"
The only problem was after talking smack the Republicans loved him...
So the "Exit Strategy" backfired and they didn't/don't know what to do...
They didn't count on the hatred of the establishment on either side...
Now on our side we have Bernie and on their side there is tRump, Cruz, and Kasich, all of whom are threats to the anointed one winning...
Only one is a good choice for the people...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
I've wondered about this myself...
I suspect not, though. The powers that be will most likely stick someone more to their liking in the spot, and to stop the riots will try to recruit Sanders for VP.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
That sounds like a likely scenario
but...well, like so much else here, the situation is rather unprecedented. Isn't it?
So what say you? You think Sanders should settle for that? I have to ponder that notion, myself
No way.
In case anyone were asking my opinion. I don't think he would consider it, and I sure as hell wouldn't want him to. Can't you imagine having to play 2nd fiddle to some of the gangsters and morons and zealots currently running?
The smaller the mind the greater the conceit. --Aesop
See my comment below
What do you think?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
If Sanders starts compromising all over the place,
he'll lose his supporters. People don't back Bernie because he is Bernie. They back him because of his issues and because it is someone they trust making them. After Obama let torturers and bankers escape, he became lower than dirt to me. He doesn't give two shits about a legacy. He only cares what's in it for him.
Anybody who takes on Trump, MoveOn just voted to do it too, is doing Hillary's work. Trump and the GOP are not the problem. The problem is there is no opposing party. I could care less if the GOP lives or dies. I sincerely hope the Democratic Party goes out in flames. Our enemy is the Third Way. When we can beat them, we win.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
don't get too smug about the torturers
they had to make some tough choices and they have families who might read criticism and they'd be hurt by such.
Maybe not VP
There is so little he could do in that position. Preside over a corrupt Senate? I think not. I gave it a second thought and now think a cabinet position might be a lot better for him (if it comes to that). Think of Sanders as an SOS. Wouldn't that be wonderful?
Best idea: He could be the head of a massive progressive movement outside of the establishment. He knows where the skeletons are buried. = ) I do not think he will be welcomed back to the Senate with open arms, but the rest of us could use his help.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
He's never left the Senate...
He's still doing his job there. And he was never welcomed in with open arms. He could go back to what he has been doing...but get a whole lot more notice, and support. He could rock the boat, especially with Elizabeth Warren there too.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
That's what I finally came back to
If, God forbid, Sanders does not win, he ought to stay right where he is, and run for re-election when his Senate seat is up again. For starters, if I'm not mistaken, that would allow him to keep any unused Act Blue money he raised for his POTUS campaign. Near as I can tell, unlike DNC money, he won't have to give whatever he's got from campaigning to that crooked candidate to his far right.
And then, of course, as you note, there's the whole Sanders/Warren Senate dynamic....
I realize he is still a senator.
I disagree though that he will gain effectiveness through this presidential run. People are vindictive, and he has exposed many of them for just what they are. Do you really think that after he has been saying for a year the politicians have been bought and paid for that many of those people (who endorsed HRC) are going to make an honest effort to work with him or for the policies he advocates? Sure he plays well with others, but others don't play well with him.
Previous people who have run for president and returned to the Senate/House have been able to do so because they did not rock the boat during the election cycle. Sanders not only rocked the boat, he overturned it so we can see what has been growing underneath it.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I highly, highly doubt Sanders would get
anywhere near a Cabinet position. Can you see HRC even deigning to listen to him? Maybe she'd try, along with her condescending smirk. No, I don't think the man can sell himself out that way, I don't see it, EVAH.... Just my opinion.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
The answers in this section
are not based on HRC gaining the WH, but on her being indicted after the primaries and someone else (Biden, whomever) being put in her place over Sanders. I do not think anyone can see Sanders with a position in her administration unless she can get her hands on a guillotine. Then his position would be kneeling in front of it...for a few minutes anyway.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Nope! Bern it Down!
Run as an Independent!
They had their chance at reform...
Sometimes you have to get worse before you get better...
"Find Your Bottom" so to speak...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
I think the filing
period for 3rd party runs has passed already, and Sanders did say that he would not do that. However, he can not stop us from writing him in.
The bottom, by the way, would be a Republican. So while there is not one of them I like, and it is still to be seen who will come out of a R brokered convention, it may be the only way to burn it down. Four years of fighting tooth and nail to stop everything they try to pass might be tough but may be necessary. I think if we get HRC we will have to do the same thing.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
thanks sensetolisten
I hope these possibilities are discussed on a National Level,
Sooner, as opposed to Later.
Thanks for the link.
Hey there, jamess. Nice to see you here!
Please do keep posting your diaries to this site, as I was obviously banned from TOP many months ago.
(((../\..)))
Hi ArthurPoet
That seems to be happening to a lot of good people, over there.
You have my condolences.
Thank you, Jamess.
I suspect it will be... very soon. My prediction is that this is about to explode. The $HillBot bullies over at TOP have been censoring this topic, and liberal MSM has also been avoiding it like the plague, but RW MSM is all over this issue.
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
As a Hillary Supporter
As a Hillary supporter, I would say that the emails are just not that important. Just as the most important thing in 2008 was that Obama is black, the most important thing in 2016 is that Hillary is a woman. That trumps everything else. She has earned the right to be President starting with the eight years of frustration she had to endure while she was in the White House and couldn't get done what needed to be done simply because she was a woman. She has earned it during the four years she served as Secretary of State who had to decide on who should live or die in the Middle East, how to handle the crisis in Benghazi, and whether or not there would be fracking in Bulgaria. She handled it like a man.
As Democrats, we all believe that all citizens are equal. As well informed political observers, we have learned that some Democrats have earned the right to be treated as special. Hillary is such a Democrat. Hillary has carried the weight of world upon her shoulders so that we don't have to worry about the big problems: why should she have to be concerned about our niggling quibbles and small time annoyances? Why should she be burdened with all the posing and posturing about transparency and funding sources being required of her by right wing nutcases and the liberal media? With Hillary Clinton we finally have the chance to marry the not quite criminal with tasteful autocracy. Better Hillary than Trump. Or Cruz. We should help her bring America into the postmoral era where political decisions can finally be made without being held back by vague notions about societal consequences.
Don't ever forget that she is doing it for our children. She will be an authority figure that our children can bow down to. She is doing it for her child, too: by 2024, they will be ready to bow down to Chelsea as it will, finally, be her turn! After that we can have an Hispanic male and then a lesbian if we want. Those choices will be up to us, but for now we must not listen to what the terrible main stream media is saying about her and ignore those horribly unspecial Democrats that just want to slow her down.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Glad you got the Bulgarian fracking in....
That's key to her candidacy.
And you've been lurking for 10 years, but felt compelled to join and post now....
Or something.
Well done.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
(No subject)
It's a big club...and you ain't in it!
It's a big club...and it is being swung at us.
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Everything you wrote was brilliant
But the most brilliant part was definitely this last line I'm responding to. I'll be laughing about that line for the rest of the night.
Send your Snarkmeter...
Out for the software update...
It failed to detect an absolutely brilliant Trojan Snark...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
Took me until the Bulgarian Fracking
to realize this was satire. Nicely played.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
I just couldn't help it after reading those mind numbing
comments to that link up there. Had to get it out. Bet the dedicated $hillaries will make it all the way through the second paragraph?
I tried to qualify it enough with the first two phrases...
“Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities.” Voltaire
Yeah, I was with Fry at first, a little unsure. But then
"We should help her bring America into the postmoral era where political decisions can finally be made without being held back by vague notions about societal consequences." ;->
'She handled it like a man' snark alarm! snark alarm! proceed ..
with caution. lol
nicely done.
With their hearts they turned to each others heart for refuge
In troubled years that came before the deluge
*Jackson Browne, 1974, Before the Deluge https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7SX-HFcSIoU
Thank you for saying what I did not want to have to...
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
...
“I never did give them hell. I just told the truth, and they thought it was hell.”
― Harry Truman
I was thinking when I started reading your post, "Is this
satire?" But the Bulgarian fracking and "like a man" said, "HEY! SATIRE HERE!"
But I was still left with a little unsteadiness as this could easily pass for any of the Shillary diaries or comments at the GOS.
Well done!
"Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it."
-- John Lennon
Boy are you lucky that somebody identified it as snark. eom
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
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