Welcome to Saturday's Potluck

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 5:00am

“Learn the rules like a pro, so you can break them like an artist.”
Pablo Picasso

The right or ability of an individual to obtain or refuse a medical treatment is being severely threatened. For most of my life the arguments have been based around reproduction rights, use of illegal drugs, informed consent of medical experiments, alternative medicine choices, medical privacy and universal availability of quality treatments. The current trend of two tiered system of the COVID vaccinated and vaccinated is formalizing medical discrimination and enforcement by third parties.

It appears business owners and employees in Oregon will once again have the risk of confrontation confirming vaccination status of individuals. As we head into a two tiered system of privileges based on compliance to a medical treatment.

Oregon’s state health officer said Friday businesses will be asked to either enforce mask policies or check whether customers have been vaccinated against COVID-19.
The comments by Dr. Dean Sidelinger came as he said the state was still working on releasing more detailed guidance for businesses.

________

DailyBeast in December was participating in the selling of the discrimination phase of the COVID vaccine rollout. We appear to be on schedule it is almost June.

Let’s imagine a world in June 2021, where everyone who wants a vaccination has gotten one, but where the virus is still spreading because of the large number of vaccine refusers. If I own a business, I may find it in my own interests to exclude those refusers. Maybe I want to protect my workers. Maybe I want to have a store, restaurant, bank, laundromat or school where people don’t have to wear masks, and where they can feel safe. And maybe I think that by doing that, I’ll get more customers.

So, just as today, I might put a “masks required” sign on the door, I might put a “vaccine required” sign on my door next June.

The trouble is that, unlike a mask, a vaccine is invisible. And that is why we must take action now.

We need written proof of vaccination that is as difficult to counterfeit or falsify as a hundred-dollar bill. We need it to be standardized and easy to show to others. And we need to start rolling it out in this phase of the pandemic, not the next one. Call them “vaccine passports”; simple, standardized documents, digital or printed, that enable society and the economy to get back to semi-normal without waiting for every anti-vaxxer to see the light.

________

Regarding masks. My suggestion for the vaccinated and unvaccinated to carry a N95 mask with you and wear it when in a poorly ventilated space.

This authors analysis is not too different from my thoughts.

As readers know, I have long urged, following the science, that Covid is airborne, and that its main mode of transmission is via aerosols. (I was initially persuaded by an epidemiological study, now consigned to link rot, that showed a seat diagram on a Chinese bus with the index case and how many were infected. It seemed clear that neither fomites nor hacked up droplets could be the cause, since the seats were widely separated. Many more such studies followed. No such studies followed for fomites or droplets.) On April 30 — after enormous efforts from aerosol scientists — WHO changed its guidance to reflect that Covid is airborne. On May 7, CDC followed. So, after more than a year, we have finally agreed Covid’s mode of transmission. It is to be hoped that science-based mitigation measures — especially ventilation — follow.
...
Madness, because as aerosol theory predicts, and fomite and droplet theories do not, indoors spaces are the most dangerous spaces (see Greenhalgh’s helpful chart above). We don’t know, for any given space, how many people within in will be vaccinated. We also do not know how many have been vaccinated and are still capable of asymptomatic spread — and hence, in a closed space, of becoming superspreaders. Fauci should be focusing on ventilation, which actually makes people safer, instead of playing Philosopher King and using some people’s desire to unmask to manipulate them into getting vaccinated.
Conclusion

Concluding, the intellectual victory needs to be fought out on the ground of mitigation (which, above, both Biden and Fauci butchered). From the Toronto Globe and Mail:

A transition to an airborne approach revolves around a simple and powerful concept: COVID spreads by breathing shared air, and infectious air accumulates indoors. (my bold italics)

Primary mitigation strategies shift from two metres distancing and handwashing to ventilation and high-quality masks. Monitor ventilation using portable carbon dioxide monitors, open windows and emphasize improvements in ventilation or air filtration when ventilation systems are poor. Distancing remains important but high-quality respirators should always be worn while indoors. All breaks and meals where masks will be removed must be moved outdoors or, when outdoors is not possible, in large well-ventilated rooms with maximal distancing and small numbers of people.

While airborne transmission is now acknowledged, changes to infection prevention strategies and efforts to increase public awareness are lacking. These changes will reduce onward transmission in high-risk settings and provide opportunities for a return to normalcy in some spheres: outdoor activities (where aerosols are rapidly dispersed) and even some indoor spaces with guidance on how to eliminate aerosol combined with proper masking.

Shifting to an airborne prevention approach will be life-saving for people working in high-risk essential jobs, and for the families to whom they bring home the infection. It will also impact overall epidemic control and help guide a safer more sustainable economic reopening.

________

What is on your mind today?

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Submitted by QMS on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 6:17am

Morning all

Do you trust the Pharma solution?

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Thanks for the potluck!

—

question everything

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:33am

Pharma Solutions do not stay constant over time

@QMS Solutions change for various reasons: new research becomes public, influence of politics and lobbying on Government agencies guidelines and recommendations, when Pharma solutions are applied to the general public unexpected or rare occur in subpopulations, or real world conditions change.

There is still many unknowns about effectiveness of COVID vaccinations as the sole preventative measure in the general population. COVID-19 itself has mutated into several variations and more can be expected. We are still in the learning phase of handling this pandemic and sorting out conflicting information.

Thanks for the political cartoons.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:54am

More reasons to not stop

@studentofearth protecting ourselves and others by using masks, distancing, and good hygiene. Nobody wants to be the last one to die in a war.

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by ovals49 on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 10:18am

The Pharma solution?

@QMS
Do you mean maximizing profits by selling pricy vaccines that work for a few months and then need regular updating to deal with clever variants, all the while completely ignoring the possibility of mitigation of the deadly effects of acute respiratory distress or effective prophylactic protection from COVID with low cost, safe and readily available generic drugs? I’d call that a grand solution. For Big Pharma, but not so much for their customers.

—

“The story around the world gives a silent testimony:
— The Beresovka mammoth, frozen in mud, with buttercups in his mouth…..”

The Adam and Eve Story, Chan Thomas 1963

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 10:21am

Good morning soe, thanks for the potluck and OT.

This line is bothersome:

We also do not know how many have been vaccinated and are still capable of asymptomatic spread

It and various less "scientific" variations of it have been floating around since vaccines became available and is mostly, imo, FUD spreading. Just a few relevant points.

1) If the vaccines were 100% perfectly effective, a vaccinated person, upon getting "infected", will clear the virus quite quickly because their immune system will kill all or nearly all viral particles in their system.

Under the above condition, a vaccinated individual could, at worst, inhale some virii exhaled by an unvaccinated person, and then , in the next breath, exhale *some* of them creating a low velocity cloud of exhaled air in their vicinity containing a fairly small viral load. This doesn't create a meaningful threat of a superspreader type of effect, or even material cascase or chain reaction effect because the initial viral load will be continually diluted. (If they are coughing or sneezing, they arguably shouldn't be in the company of others).

2) Some small fraction of vaccinated persons will actually catch the virus despite the vaccination, which varies with the vaccine taken.

3) Some fraction of that fraction will be asymptomatic

The number of asymptomatic vaccinated persons should be pretty small, probably less than the number of infected unvaccinated persons, from one or more of which they presumably caught the virus, and accordingly pose only a relatively small threat and, realistically, only to the unvaccinated. Again, anything vaguely resemblin a superspreader event is straight out of the question.

Just a superficial analysis, but consider the law of diminishing returns. Just as something with a high transmittivity quotient in a fully susceptible population can be expected to have exponential growth, something with a reduced transmittivity in a largely non-susceptible population can be expected to have exponential decline.

Generally, if you have 100 people in a room, 75 vaccinated, two of whom are capable of being infected anyway and one of whom is, and 25 unvaccinated whose infection status is unknown, the risk to the assemblace from the susceptible though vaccinated pair is negligible compared to the threat from the other 25.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Granma on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 10:48am

Your quote in the above box seems to be wrong

@enhydra lutris Recent research says vaccinated people do not transmit the virus. That is said to be one of the reasons the CDC changed its mask guidance.

This line is bothersome: We also do not know how many have been vaccinated and are still capable of asymptomatic spread It and various less "scientific" variations of it have been floating around since vaccines became available and is mostly, imo, FUD spreading. Just a few relevant points. 1) If the vaccines were 100% perfectly effective, a vaccinated person, upon getting "infected", will clear the virus quite quickly because their immune system will kill all or nearly all viral particles in their system. Under the above condition, a vaccinated individual could, at worst, inhale some virii exhaled by an unvaccinated person, and then , in the next breath, exhale *some* of them creating a low velocity cloud of exhaled air in their vicinity containing a fairly small viral load. This doesn't create a meaningful threat of a superspreader type of effect, or even material cascase or chain reaction effect because the initial viral load will be continually diluted. (If they are coughing or sneezing, they arguably shouldn't be in the company of others). 2) Some small fraction of vaccinated persons will actually catch the virus despite the vaccination, which varies with the vaccine taken. 3) Some fraction of that fraction will be asymptomatic The number of asymptomatic vaccinated persons should be pretty small, probably less than the number of infected unvaccinated persons, from one or more of which they presumably caught the virus, and accordingly pose only a relatively small threat and, realistically, only to the unvaccinated. Again, anything vaguely resemblin a superspreader event is straight out of the question. Just a superficial analysis, but consider the law of diminishing returns. Just as something with a high transmittivity quotient in a fully susceptible population can be expected to have exponential growth, something with a reduced transmittivity in a largely non-susceptible population can be expected to have exponential decline. Generally, if you have 100 people in a room, 75 vaccinated, two of whom are capable of being infected anyway and one of whom is, and 25 unvaccinated whose infection status is unknown, the risk to the assemblace from the susceptible though vaccinated pair is negligible compared to the threat from the other 25. be well and have a good one

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:12am

I know, which is why I objected to it. I chose to present

@Granma @Granma

some reasons to question/challenge it rather than simply citing CDC, since they didn't explain their reasoning or data.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Granma on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:26am

Oops. Guess I misunderstood you. I'm sorry.

@enhydra lutris

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 1:09pm

No problem, hurriedly and poorly written.

@Granma

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:38am

I may be wrong

@Granma but I find their guidance change odd. There is no way for the vaccinated to "shed" the virus from the vaccine, no live virus contained in it. I've not seen confirmed studies that a vaccinated person can't pass virus from an active infection. The risk may be very low but is it low enough to warrant the confusion and problems caused by changing their recommendation? Their guidance doesn't seem right absent a better explanation. Do you have a better understanding?

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 2:00pm

Their guidance is purely political

@vtcc73
and worth nothing. Fauci is an admitted liar and should be fired.

He admitted that he told lies on Trump's direct order. any doctor with integrity would have resigned instead.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 5:11pm

This idea is not as black and white as you might think.

@The Voice In the Wilderness

(A)"ny doctor with integrity would have resigned instead."

Faced with the choice of sacrificing personal integrity versus the incredible damage his replacement could have, in trump's case certainly would have, caused is not a medical decision but one for the person wearing the bureaucrat's or political appointee's hat. Consider which carries the greater moral courage to make. Imagine Herman Caine or a clone in Fauci's position. How many hundreds of thousands more deaths and millions of cases is a lie not out of convenience but arguably necessity, later openly and freely admitted in public, worth? Like/trust the guy or not, it was the right choice. What's more the number of our so called public servants willing to make such a personal sacrifice has become miniscule. Tendering his resignation following the departure of trump would have made the point better but we can't know if Fauci has that level of integrity or not.

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 2:34pm

CDC information for health professional decision making

@Granma is more nuanced than public talking points. This text is from today on the CDC website for Interim Clinical Considerations. Updates are made regular with no easily read documentation of previous guidelines except personally taking occasional screen shots.

Considerations for vaccination of people with certain underlying medical conditions
...
Immunocompromised people
People should be counseled about the unknown vaccine safety profile and effectiveness in immunocompromised populations, the potential for reduced immune responses, and the need to continue to follow current guidance to protect themselves against COVID-19

Compromised immune systems may be the result of an acute or chronic medical condition, toxin exposure or regular medical treatment. Medical treatment includes doctor prescribed and the use of over-the-counter medications within the normal recommended dose. A person may not even be aware their immune system is compromised and the COVID vaccine with the booster shot may not be providing them adequate protection. The individual may have less protection than an unvaccinated person using reasonable infectious disease precautions.

The full scope of vaccinations potential to reduce COVID spread will not be know until retrospective studies are done in 5, 10 and 20 years. Until then any expert is speculating based on their experiences and bias. Total removal of bias is a continual problem within research. Not always nefarious reasons. It is just hard. Any expert whom acknowledges opinion is not 100% fact, or mentions what the assumptions are being utilized will not be asked again for their opinion in a public forum or as a news expert.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 3:27pm

Good luck keeping a mask mandate for five years

@studentofearth
let alone twenty

Three of my favorite restaurants are allowing unmasked people to order, eat, and sit where they want if they make a big enough stink.
At one, the two unmasked old men sat right next to us and ignored the employee telling them they couldn't sit there. I threw our food away and we left. never to return. They should have called the local police.
We used to live there. my wife used to work there.

This is Illinois. Chicago suburbs. not Texas or Mississippi.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 4:28pm

Not a mandate, rather an understanding of when to

@The Voice In the Wilderness use a mask, what type and personal risk factors. A mask may be used to limit spread of an infection to others or reduce the exposure of a substance to the mask wearer. Using masks to limit respiratory infections has become part of regular practice in Asia since 2002. There is some speculation the reduction in flu this past year was partially the result of mask mandates. If someone is at high risk for flu complications, including death, wearing mask seasonally might be an additional tool to protect ones health. Using an external oxygen source is another method to reduce exposure.

We live in a confrontational society. The choices for businesses owners and their employees should not be limited to assume the risk to enforce mandates or experience a violent episode by police.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:29am

Thanks eh.

@enhydra lutris You have provided an excellent analysis of the issues we face from a medical and public health perspective. I think of what you wrote as a reality check on the capabilities of the virus, the vaccine, and the population. Everything we need to evaluate how each of us proceeds is in those few short paragraphs.

I tend to think in terms of capabilities. It's a habit formed many years ago. Beliefs, fears, intentions, and the like are all guess work. Knowing the threat and my capability to counter it is how I evaluate how I should respond.

I was fortunate, well just old really or I wouldn't have been eligible, to receive the first dose of the Pfizer vaccine on Monday. Getting the Pfizer vaccine was as lucky though it really didn't matter. Taking what was offered was my intention. I registered almost two months ago but heard nothing until three days before my appointment. Phase 1, essential personnel, most vulnerable, and over 65, ends on the 20th. It looks like the country is receiving enough vaccine to actually begin Phase 2. Though I didn't, still don't, think much of the new president, I do like that his first priority is getting control of COVID in Ecuador. Like Biden, it looks like he may be on the right track to addressing COVID though with far fewer resources to ensure success.

I've had a few interesting conversations about the vaccination this week. The process was efficient and professional. I suppose it helps when people are culturally more inclined to not be assholes. It was more like I remember the Polio oral vaccine campaign as a kid. It was a huge coliseum on the sports training facility of a major city rather high school gym in a small town in Ohio but very similar in how the process worked. Everyone wanted to know about that as well as about my reaction to the vaccine. All of them have friends and families affected by the virus and are anxious to have their turn. The one disagreement I have with the phase system is that people like me, who are old but in excellent heath with no comorbidities and the ability to avoid people outside my circle of family, a few close friends, and some neighbors, should be behind people who have to work in close proximity to others. I don't know how to make that work but I'm think it more equitable.

Except one that is. He is a good friend, an expat, who I'm not really surprised revealed they don't take vaccines. At 75, I'm not sure he and his wife, Cuencana, are choosing according to their best interests, both with comorbidities, or those of their family, friends, and neighbors. They took extreme measures at the beginning of the pandemic and are still rigorous in the appropriate personal precautions. I will continue to take similar precautions around them like I will until Ecuador, or at least Cuenca, gets COVID under control. My point is that this will not affect our relationship despite them now being considered a potential threat. I won't actively avoid them but we also won't seek contact more than necessary.

They are less of a threat to me but my wife and some have some unknown amount of time before they can be vaccinated. The problem with the population in general making the choices my friend does is that we just don't know. For now nothing changes. Everyone is a potential threat which must be honored with appropriate personal protective measures. Always honor a threat is a cardinal rule just like assessing capabilities is when assessing risk or threats.

For us that means masks, social distancing, more vigilant hand washing, and possibly more lockdowns like the one winding down. It will end when it ends. Or like so many I'll get fed up with it all and proclaim that what I want, believe, or choose is my right and my family, friends, neighbors, and the people can just fuck off. It's all about me and me only.

Not bloody likely.

This line is bothersome: We also do not know how many have been vaccinated and are still capable of asymptomatic spread It and various less "scientific" variations of it have been floating around since vaccines became available and is mostly, imo, FUD spreading. Just a few relevant points. 1) If the vaccines were 100% perfectly effective, a vaccinated person, upon getting "infected", will clear the virus quite quickly because their immune system will kill all or nearly all viral particles in their system. Under the above condition, a vaccinated individual could, at worst, inhale some virii exhaled by an unvaccinated person, and then , in the next breath, exhale *some* of them creating a low velocity cloud of exhaled air in their vicinity containing a fairly small viral load. This doesn't create a meaningful threat of a superspreader type of effect, or even material cascase or chain reaction effect because the initial viral load will be continually diluted. (If they are coughing or sneezing, they arguably shouldn't be in the company of others). 2) Some small fraction of vaccinated persons will actually catch the virus despite the vaccination, which varies with the vaccine taken. 3) Some fraction of that fraction will be asymptomatic The number of asymptomatic vaccinated persons should be pretty small, probably less than the number of infected unvaccinated persons, from one or more of which they presumably caught the virus, and accordingly pose only a relatively small threat and, realistically, only to the unvaccinated. Again, anything vaguely resemblin a superspreader event is straight out of the question. Just a superficial analysis, but consider the law of diminishing returns. Just as something with a high transmittivity quotient in a fully susceptible population can be expected to have exponential growth, something with a reduced transmittivity in a largely non-susceptible population can be expected to have exponential decline. Generally, if you have 100 people in a room, 75 vaccinated, two of whom are capable of being infected anyway and one of whom is, and 25 unvaccinated whose infection status is unknown, the risk to the assemblace from the susceptible though vaccinated pair is negligible compared to the threat from the other 25. be well and have a good one

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 10:19am

A useful work-around, for anybody interested, for the

vaccination documentation issue.

If one is willing to play along with such requests, as opposed to resisting them and one is also not prone to lose one's cell phone, assuming that one has one, it can provide the answer.

Having spent years doing road trips in various vehicles with and without various trailers and providing all kinds of information at check-in time at all kinds of places here and abroad, I created an "ID" directory within the "gallery" directory of my phone. Into it I loaded photos of the license plates of all of our vehicles, my DL, my health insurance card (which my provider was willing to accept on one occasion when I forgot my wallet), my medicare card, my passport, my voter registration card (from the registrar's office when I registered Peoples Party) and, upon receipt thereof, my vaccination card. Generally, all those numbers and dates in one place.

FWIW, I have a similar directory with photos of all of my meds.

I don't personally object to providing such info because I previously engaged in activities requiring me to periodically verify the currency of my rabies inoculation, and have traveled to places where they require certain vaccinations and others where one's vaccination status for various things might need to be ascertained should one become ill.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Granma on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 10:51am

I like that idea a lot

@enhydra lutris not just for vaccination card, but for all the other things you have in your gallery. It would be an immense help if one of those items were lost.

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:09am

I learned it from my sister, and then adapted it for my

@Granma

purposes. She has very specific needs for a goodly number of medical supplies, and travels a moderate amount. She quickly learned that it is useful to be able to show the kid at the pharmacy counter photos of specific products and say, "no, I need this/these".

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:49am

Taking photos of important docs,

@enhydra lutris receipts, meds, just about everything is a standard practice I learned here. It's not just because I'm still learning the spoken language. The locals do it for themselves personally and in their work.

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 1:33pm

BTW, nice sig line

@vtcc73

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 10:36pm

I, of course, always love The Byrds' original

@enhydra lutris but my favorite is this video from the early '90s:

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_Df39PjkwA&list=RDMM&index=5]

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:46am

I know that anything a government does is suspect

@enhydra lutris but the vaccines are administered by the Ministry of Health. We receive a document of the vaccination that should be confirmable in a data base cross indexed to our Cedulas, national ID card. Every part of the process was computerized which for Ecuador is a BFD but improving every day. Even our permanent residency visas were cancelled in our passports and we were issued an electronic ID number for the visas. Good Ecuador doesn't have any black helicopters to be afraid of, huh?

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 1:17pm

vtcc73 "sort of"

@vtcc73

Good Ecuador doesn't have any black helicopters to be afraid of, huh?

You forget about ours, the CIA and or it's proxies could show up any day, their presence has already been felt there before.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by vtcc73 on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 4:49pm

Meh

@enhydra lutris One of the distressing actions of Moreno was his becoming cozier with the US. It is a mistake from the perspective of the people but we all know (as do some of the older Ecuadorians) that getting close to the US was the cause of many problems in the '90s. The political leaders all see $$$$ for themselves from the relationship even though it will lead to plundering the natural resources that belong to the people.

I've seen some cooperative military interactions with the US. What isn't seen and that which is deep underground with US intelligence are a potential concern. There doesn't, however, seem to be much desire of the people to be pulled into US geopolitical entanglements. Presidents and the legislature has a healthy respect for the power of the people. The relative quiet of the past almost 20 years isn't common. They have no problems completely shutting down parts of the economy when it's obvious they're being screwed. On top of that, the legislature just ended had a final 2% approval rate. The president has lots of opposition. Although the recently announced agreement between Correistas and Lasso's party may form a majority in the legislature, there is no expectation they will be able to do much. Both sides of that marriage of convenience has been vocal in their opposition to dancing with the devils they're being asked to support. That may change without any notice with an appropriate amount of political lube being applied but I doubt it. I sure don't see the people accepting the US military in Ecuador beyond a distant relationship. As always, I could be wrong but black helicopters? Nope.

Edit: That didn't take long. The deal wasn't even 24 hours old. The government is less able to come together in the public's interest than in the US. Oh, wait. What does public interest have to do with politics these days?

—

"Ah, but I was so much older then, I'm younger than that now..."

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 3:01pm

convenient workaround to especially when traveling

@enhydra lutris Growing advice for not posting vaccine card on social media as concern for fakes increases. Always surprised the type personal information posted on a public site.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:10am

Amazing that they can coordinate in such fine detail

-- but we're always going to have capitalism, y'know, because...

BECAUSE WHY?

Is there something sacred about the government's creation and maintenance of billionaires? Corporations? Fossil-fuel infrastructures?

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 3:14pm

Answer to the question is Yes

@Cassiodorus They are very effective methods to control populations and geographic land masses.

Is there something sacred about the government's creation and maintenance of billionaires? Corporations? Fossil-fuel infrastructures?

It is just the modern twist to land-grant gifts to loyal nobles for services rendered or anticipated, control of watering holes and trade routes. It can be called capitalism, feudalism or any form of power consolidation to a select few for multiple generations.

We used to have a saying in Oregon. "He earned his money the old fashioned way. He inherited it." The opportunity to improve economic status keeps diminishes and the phrase is ringing true again.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by Granma on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:11am

Regarding mask or vaccination situation

In Oregon. I'm now fully vaccinated. But having thought about the issue a lot, I decided I would continue to wear a mask in stores and similar places or a while longer. The employees have had less chance to be vaccinated because of their work hours and because they may not be able to take time from work if they react for a couple of days. I'm not in stores that much. It will give peace of mind to unvaccinated employees. It might also be in my own best interests since a small % of people can get a break through illness. Whether that is more likely with the variants now circulating, I don't know.

I don't think it is reasonable to put business owners and employees in the position of policing for vaccination status. At least in Oregon, we are getting close to having enough people vaccinated to fully open. That will take away the need to check vaccination status and make life simpler for everyone.

I have many Latino neighbors. I have asked if they want to be vaccinated and if they do, but have not yet been, I share how and where and when they can be. Also make sure to tell them it is free and for everyone. The information is public, but in English. One has to ask for it in Spanish. I urge others to do the same with people they come in contact with. Many Latino people want to get vaccine, but don't know how to get it, or think doing so is more complicated than it actually is. It is a kindness to help if you can.

Submitted by eyo on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 11:46am

Brain Smog from the poetry of science

Yeah, I trust pHarma a little bit, not much. Fire Fauci, then let's talk. That anal rectum has been up inside my head ever since the HIV/AIDS epidemic, Reagan times. Anyone else remember "Silence = Death!"? Forty years later... "Kabuki = Death!" same same ASSHOLE

What was the question again? Oh yeah, trust in pHarma? My proximity community (not the virtual one) is fine and understands my personal hesitations, and over half de adults in the county are vaccinated now a lot of kids are getting poked. Fully open by July whether we like it or not. "That's the system."
...
Music goes here: The Who - 5:15 (glance at calendar).
"Why should I care? Why should I care?" French horn, trumpet and flugelhorn.
...

This poem is inspired by recent research, which has found that rising carbon dioxide levels may directly harm our ability to think.

Brain Smog
April 24, 2020 by Sam Illingworth

As chimney stacks spew

forth our tainted offerings of

industrial excrement,

dilapidated ventilators strain

to suck poison from the

saturated veins of concrete obelisks;

their glass facades opaque

to the inevitability

of our subsidence.

Inside these effigies of excess

numbered commodities

sift spreadsheets like Sisyphus,

smiles met with nodding heads

as monotonous formalities

fall from lolling tongues;

their mute palates indifferent

to the consciousness

of our asphyxiation.

Listless bodies litter the cubicles;

their rasping breaths attuned

to the irony

of our ignorance.

Peace and Love

Submitted by eyo on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 12:23pm

diatomaceous ooze

Shit here comes Ammon Bundy again, PU!

Water crisis ‘couldn’t be worse’ on Oregon-California border

Click the hyperbolic headline and read on, 'cause these here are just the quotes I picked out among the ruins, continuing on:

... About 30 protesters showed up Thursday at the head gates of the main dam to protest the shut-off and ask the irrigation district to defy federal orders and divert the water. The Herald and News reported that they were with a group called People’s Rights, a far-right organization founded by anti-government activist Ammon Bundy.
...
The situation in the Klamath Basin was set in motion more than a century ago, when the U.S. government began draining a network of shallow lakes and marshlands, redirecting the natural flow of water and constructing hundreds of miles of canals and drainage channels to create farmland. Homesteads were offered by lottery to World War II veterans.

The project turned the region into an agricultural powerhouse — some of its potato farmers supply In ’N Out burger — but permanently altered an intricate water system that spans hundreds of miles and from southern Oregon to Northern California.

Want fries with that?
...
the animal is tired ... (Robin Hobb)
...
Killing the Klamath 21:53
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEfZOkg5ksw width:500]

Ultimately, the Klamath Tribes want to heal the lands and waters of their ancestral home and restore sustainable C’waam and Koptu fisheries as a cornerstone of their plan for economic self-sufficiency.

Peace and Love

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 1:27pm

Good morning eyo. Thanks for making note of the

@eyo
struggle and goals of the Klamath people. They have won a few minor victories over the years, but they're still getting the shaft.

be well and have a good one

—

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Cassiodorus on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 1:33pm

It appears that Klamath County

@eyo was affected by the drought a lot worse than the counties to the west. Seems the clouds this year emptied out in NW California and SW Oregon and had no rain or snow for that area.

—

The ruling classes need an extra party to make the rest of us feel as if we participate in democracy. That's what the Democrats are for. They make the US more durable than the Soviet Union was.

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 3:38pm

At least this time a Cheney is not in a leadership position in

@eyo the Republican party this time. Might expose other power players in the conflict.

Vice President Dick Cheney made sure non-Indian farmers and ranchers in northern California and southern Oregon received water, The Washington Post reports.

Cheney personally called Sue Ellen Wooldridge in early 2001 to talk about the water situation in the Klamath Basin, where tribal interests clashed with non-Indians. At the time, Wooldridge was Interior Secretary Gale Norton's legal counselor.

The call mortified Wooldridge, she told The Post, and it was clear that Cheney supported the non-Indians. "The fact that the vice president was interested meant that everyone paid attention," she said.

Cheney requested, and received, weekly briefings on the issue and followed up with calls to Norton. "His hands-on involvement, it's safe to say, elevated the issue," one of his former aides said.

I had been hoping the alliances and working relationships built over the the last 20 years provide some calming effect as the drought increased. This article from last year did not offer much hope.

But the spirit of cooperation that fueled a sense of optimism in the basin is gone. Many of the signatories in the original agreements have moved on to other things, and new conflicts have arisen, including a series of water-rights calls by the Klamath Tribes that further diminished supplies.

“It’s just unfortunate that we’re kind of back to the way things were,” said Greg Addington, a former director of the Klamath Water Users Association who worked on the water-sharing agreements

Thanks for providing the background information on the Klamath.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 1:48pm

Business interests?

If I own a business, I may find it in my own interests to exclude those refusers.

And if you find it in your interest to not make wedding cakes with same sex couples on them because republicans are boycotting your bakery? Is that OK too because it's in your business interest?

On the larger question. Let the unvaccinated get sick, the vaccinated are protected by the vaccine, aren't they? or was it all a massive government giveaway?

Is a restaurant going to want to see my measles vaccination certificate or pneumonia vaccination certificate next?

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 2:08pm

Welcome to Saturday's war crimes committed by ...

Israeli Airstrike Flattens Building Housing AP And Other Media In Gaza City

A ball of fire erupts from a building housing various international media, including The Associated Press, after an Israeli airstrike on Saturday in Gaza City. AP staffers and other tenants safely evacuated the building after the Israeli military telephoned a warning that the strike was imminent.
Mahmud Hams/AP

I can't even vomit. Civilian palestinians lives don't matter, white people's lives do. Nothing new, I just wait til Netanyahu asks his followers, if they want 'einen totalen Krieg'.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 3:30pm

Uh. Arabs are white.

@mimi

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 4:05pm

ymmv, I have only 30 perdent eyesight on my left eye

@The Voice In the Wilderness
may be that's the reason why I don't understand why Arabs are always called Arabs but never categorized as whites. This is not a good conversation and sounds ugly. So, let's drop it. May be one should not categorize people of different ethnicity by color.

Be well, the violence and wars tear on our nerves. Not good.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 6:39pm

OK

@mimi
Nut don't say things like " Civilian palestinians lives don't matter, white people's lives do. "
I'm about to go full right wing on this "hate Whitey" crap.
If we are going to have a race war then I stamnd with my people.
Bu5t one last plea for Racial equality. No white Supremacy, no Black supremacy.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by mimi on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 12:01am

I am sorry, I think I don't understand anything anymore.

@The Voice In the Wilderness
or I never understood anything to begin with. I have no idea about what is going on. I guess I am falling apart.

NO supremacy for anybody.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 9:58am

Yes!

@mimi

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 12:28am

Well,I am not into race supremacy

@The Voice In the Wilderness whatsoever, so nothing would prompt me to stand with "my people" against "the other".
I personally stand with whomever is oppressed, regardless of their color matching mine.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by The Voice In th... on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 10:00am

Even an armed attack?

@on the cusp
Even widespread looting and arson?
Yes, it happened in Chicago because of a shooting in Minneapolis, two states away.
Or rather, that was the excuse.

—

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 10:36am

Yes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness I can't imagine any scenario where skin color bears on my decisions, or loyalties. I not consider white people my brethren. All people are.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by eyo on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 4:46am

Uh, some Arabs are white

@The Voice In the Wilderness @The Voice In the Wilderness Uh, I guess you are white but I could be wrong. Did you ever notice how most oppressed people around the world have skin shades darker than white? Uh, I wonder why? No I don't I'm just being a sarcastic ass back at ya. giddyup means I'm triggered too, which is no excuse.

Mimi is about 1200 miles from where the bombs are falling, where is everyone else? I looked at a map (gasp!) and figured for me it would be like Santa Fe launching thousands of bombs at Albuquerque every night, and vice versa. Killing their children and destroying their infrastructure. WTF California does it by denying wages and housing to poor people. hi-ho silver

Does everyone here know the size of a modern "nuclear blast radius"? I used to know, but things got quiet and I went back to sleep. away!

"check it out" In the '70s you could still record a song with lyrics like "it's time we learned this world was made for all men" and not get your life ruined by social media robot screamers. In fact it was a popular thing to say back in the day, and sing along on the radio. la la la me too

edited: with correct video link, hopefully

Stevie Wonder - Black Man
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEoE2UQXduA width:420]
Get funky! right on

Peace and Love

Submitted by studentofearth on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 4:01pm

Reporters and news organization might start questioning

@mimi official narratives and excuses made by Israeli officials for military attacks on civilians justified by bad guys in building. Conflicts need actual reporting not stenography from press events.

Mostefa Souag, acting director-general of Al Jazeera Media Network, called the strike a “war crime” and a “clear act” to stop journalists from reporting on the conflict. Kuwait state television also had office space in the now-collapsed Gaza City building.

“The targeting of news organizations is completely unacceptable, even during an armed conflict. It represents a gross violation of human rights and internationally agreed norms,” Barbara Trionfi, the executive director of the International Press Institute, said.

In a standard Israeli response, the military said that Hamas was operating inside the building, and it accused the militant group of using journalists as human shields. But it provided no evidence to back up the claims.

Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus claimed that Hamas used the building for a military intelligence office and weapons development. He said “a highly advanced technological tool” that the militant group used in the fighting was “within or on the building.”

But Conricus said he could not provide evidence to back up the claims without “compromising” intelligence efforts. He added, however: “I think it’s a legitimate request to see more information, and I will try to provide it.”
...
The strike on a building known to have the offices of international media outlets came as a shock to reporters who had felt relatively protected there.

“Now, one can understand the feeling of the people whose homes have been destroyed by such kind of air attacks,” Al-Jazeera producer Safwat al-Kahlout, who was at the bureau in Gaza when the evacuation warning came, told the broadcaster Saturday. “It’s really difficult to wake up one day and then you realize that your office is not there with all the career experiences, memories that you’ve had.”

For 15 years, AP’s top floor offices and roof terrace on the now-destroyed building had provided a prime location for covering fighting in Gaza. The news agency’s camera offered 24-hour live shots this week as Hamas rockets arched toward Israel and Israeli airstrikes hammered the city.

Just a day before the bombing, AP correspondent Fares Akram wrote in a personal story that the AP office was the only place in Gaza were he felt “somewhat safe.”

“The Israeli military has the coordinates of the high-rise, so it’s less likely a bomb will bring it crashing down,” Akram wrote.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by mimi on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 4:34pm

thanks, I concur with the article's content

@studentofearth I saw life streaming videos with sound. Sirenes, bombing, people being scared and running for shelters, those images and sounds are the ones of war. I saw so much and didn't remember if it were streaming videos from Al Jazeera or not. I am pretty sure though it was Al Jazeera.

#9 official narratives and excuses made by Israeli officials for military attacks on civilians justified by bad guys in building. Conflicts need actual reporting not stenography from press events. Mostefa Souag, acting director-general of Al Jazeera Media Network, called the strike a “war crime” and a “clear act” to stop journalists from reporting on the conflict. Kuwait state television also had office space in the now-collapsed Gaza City building. “The targeting of news organizations is completely unacceptable, even during an armed conflict. It represents a gross violation of human rights and internationally agreed norms,” Barbara Trionfi, the executive director of the International Press Institute, said. In a standard Israeli response, the military said that Hamas was operating inside the building, and it accused the militant group of using journalists as human shields. But it provided no evidence to back up the claims. Israeli military spokesman Lt. Col. Jonathan Conricus claimed that Hamas used the building for a military intelligence office and weapons development. He said “a highly advanced technological tool” that the militant group used in the fighting was “within or on the building.” But Conricus said he could not provide evidence to back up the claims without “compromising” intelligence efforts. He added, however: “I think it’s a legitimate request to see more information, and I will try to provide it.” ... The strike on a building known to have the offices of international media outlets came as a shock to reporters who had felt relatively protected there. “Now, one can understand the feeling of the people whose homes have been destroyed by such kind of air attacks,” Al-Jazeera producer Safwat al-Kahlout, who was at the bureau in Gaza when the evacuation warning came, told the broadcaster Saturday. “It’s really difficult to wake up one day and then you realize that your office is not there with all the career experiences, memories that you’ve had.” For 15 years, AP’s top floor offices and roof terrace on the now-destroyed building had provided a prime location for covering fighting in Gaza. The news agency’s camera offered 24-hour live shots this week as Hamas rockets arched toward Israel and Israeli airstrikes hammered the city. Just a day before the bombing, AP correspondent Fares Akram wrote in a personal story that the AP office was the only place in Gaza were he felt “somewhat safe.” “The Israeli military has the coordinates of the high-rise, so it’s less likely a bomb will bring it crashing down,” Akram wrote.

—

https://www.euronews.com/live

Submitted by Pluto's Republic on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 3:32pm

So far, every effort the medical world has made

....to deal with this virus can be described as partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive. This holds true for every approach to Covid-19, including prevention of the disease, prophylaxis to block infection, first aid for exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, real-time tracking of virus variants, pharmaceutical treatments, vaccine development, and secondary disease mitigation.

At the very beginning of the pandemic, a decision was made by the Overlords of the Medical Industry to funnel research primarily toward vaccines. The MIC owns the Medical journals and they oversee much of the research funding that goes out to private labs and universities. It was a simple matter for them to quietly launch an extreme-vaccine l research agenda via the endowments and grants they hand out. The funding would go to vaccine projects, and everything else would be 'shadow banned' — in the space but not speaking.

This one decision changed the course of Covid-19, and probably put the future of US health care in a state of uncertainty due to long term effects. It placed a profound drag on many plausible approaches and interventions that might have limited Covid-19's damage. For example, after more than a year of intense global research, the FDAA approved only one (!) treatment, the drug Remdesivir — which, it turns out, does not work well. And even it it did work — at $5000 per injection, few people could afford the treatment. Several repurposed (or 'off-label') drugs, which appeared to be effective treatments for the infection, were shunned. In some cases, these drugs were smeared by medical authorities, or they were attacked by flocks of me-too clinical trials that had terrible outcomes. As for Prevention, the methods pushed by the CDC were identical in every way to the prevention methods used for the Spanish Flu in 1918. Yet there were astonishing advancements relevant to SARS-CoV-2 in newly completed trials that were suppressed.

I won't describe how the Medical Industry agenda squeezed all the different approaches. Although there is one area of neglect that has bothered me from the beginning. The American People still don't have access to medically effective face masks — after all this time! Nor are there PSAs that continuously teach people how to use masks properly to protect themselves. In fact, there has been little progress in competently re-supplying the emergency stockpiles, which failed us so badly in 2020. The US is not ready for the next pandemic, even after lavishing trillions of dollars on our corporations and our wealthiest individuals.

The reason the vaccines also fall under the heading of "partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive" is because they are not really the kind of vaccines people expected. These vaccines do not eradicate Covid-19 the way that diseases like Smallpox or Polio were eradicated. Vaccinated people may still get the disease, and spread it. Some scientists say our failure to stop the virus and its ongoing mutations early on, could mean that Covid-19 will be with us for quite a while. I noticed this headline today:

Eight from Yankees test positive for Covid in post-vaccine breakthrough cases

How did that happen? When the Yankees reached the 85% vaccination level on April 30, it allowed MLB protocols to be loosened. Among the changes, the requirement for masks in dugouts and bullpens was dropped. But it was too much too soon for the vaccine.

—

Carry a burning candle and share the light.

Submitted by Lookout on Sat, 05/15/2021 - 7:04pm

Pierre Kory blows my mind...

@Pluto's Republic

This is well worth your time. What a great explanation of the mess we made of the pandemic.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=byFEU1A5MRY]

....to deal with this virus can be described as partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive. This holds true for every approach to Covid-19, including prevention of the disease, prophylaxis to block infection, first aid for exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, real-time tracking of virus variants, pharmaceutical treatments, vaccine development, and secondary disease mitigation.

At the very beginning of the pandemic, a decision was made by the Overlords of the Medical Industry to funnel research primarily toward vaccines. The MIC owns the Medical journals and they oversee much of the research funding that goes out to private labs and universities. It was a simple matter for them to quietly launch an extreme-vaccine l research agenda via the endowments and grants they hand out. The funding would go to vaccine projects, and everything else would be 'shadow banned' — in the space but not speaking.

This one decision changed the course of Covid-19, and probably put the future of US health care in a state of uncertainty due to long term effects. It placed a profound drag on many plausible approaches and interventions that might have limited Covid-19's damage. For example, after more than a year of intense global research, the FDAA approved only one (!) treatment, the drug Remdesivir — which, it turns out, does not work well. And even it it did work — at $5000 per injection, few people could afford the treatment. Several repurposed (or 'off-label') drugs, which appeared to be effective treatments for the infection, were shunned. In some cases, these drugs were smeared by medical authorities, or they were attacked by flocks of me-too clinical trials that had terrible outcomes. As for Prevention, the methods pushed by the CDC were identical in every way to the prevention methods used for the Spanish Flu in 1918. Yet there were astonishing advancements relevant to SARS-CoV-2 in newly completed trials that were suppressed.

I won't describe how the Medical Industry agenda squeezed all the different approaches. Although there is one area of neglect that has bothered me from the beginning. The American People still don't have access to medically effective face masks — after all this time! Nor are there PSAs that continuously teach people how to use masks properly to protect themselves. In fact, there has been little progress in competently re-supplying the emergency stockpiles, which failed us so badly in 2020. The US is not ready for the next pandemic, even after lavishing trillions of dollars on our corporations and our wealthiest individuals.

The reason the vaccines also fall under the heading of "partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive" is because they are not really the kind of vaccines people expected. These vaccines do not eradicate Covid-19 the way that diseases like Smallpox or Polio were eradicated. Vaccinated people may still get the disease, and spread it. Some scientists say our failure to stop the virus and its ongoing mutations early on, could mean that Covid-19 will be with us for quite a while. I noticed this headline today:

Eight from Yankees test positive for Covid in post-vaccine breakthrough cases

.

How did that happen? When the Yankees reached the 85% vaccination level on April 30, it allowed MLB protocols to be loosened. Among the changes, the requirement for masks in dugouts and bullpens was dropped. But it was too much too soon for the vaccine.

—

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 1:13am

great comment.

@Lookout @Lookout Very informative.
Do you have any info about people with allergies, a category I fit into all too well?
edit: meant as a reply to Pluto's Republic. So sorry.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by studentofearth on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 1:11am

His eyes have been opened - thanks for the video n/t

@Lookout

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by studentofearth on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 1:09am

Your discussion points are very valid. COVID-19 has touched

@Pluto's Republic the life of nearly every person worldwide so the problems are harder to dismiss complaints of a poor response as a person not understanding the issue. The poor response for individual health, destruction of careers and corrupting organizations to optimize profit has been repeated many times for various health issues during my healthcare career.

It has been a long day and your comment deserves a more robust discussion. If I have more time in the next couple of days will try and provide some other examples.

....to deal with this virus can be described as partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive. This holds true for every approach to Covid-19, including prevention of the disease, prophylaxis to block infection, first aid for exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, real-time tracking of virus variants, pharmaceutical treatments, vaccine development, and secondary disease mitigation.

At the very beginning of the pandemic, a decision was made by the Overlords of the Medical Industry to funnel research primarily toward vaccines. The MIC owns the Medical journals and they oversee much of the research funding that goes out to private labs and universities. It was a simple matter for them to quietly launch an extreme-vaccine l research agenda via the endowments and grants they hand out. The funding would go to vaccine projects, and everything else would be 'shadow banned' — in the space but not speaking.

This one decision changed the course of Covid-19, and probably put the future of US health care in a state of uncertainty due to long term effects. It placed a profound drag on many plausible approaches and interventions that might have limited Covid-19's damage. For example, after more than a year of intense global research, the FDAA approved only one (!) treatment, the drug Remdesivir — which, it turns out, does not work well. And even it it did work — at $5000 per injection, few people could afford the treatment. Several repurposed (or 'off-label') drugs, which appeared to be effective treatments for the infection, were shunned. In some cases, these drugs were smeared by medical authorities, or they were attacked by flocks of me-too clinical trials that had terrible outcomes. As for Prevention, the methods pushed by the CDC were identical in every way to the prevention methods used for the Spanish Flu in 1918. Yet there were astonishing advancements relevant to SARS-CoV-2 in newly completed trials that were suppressed.

I won't describe how the Medical Industry agenda squeezed all the different approaches. Although there is one area of neglect that has bothered me from the beginning. The American People still don't have access to medically effective face masks — after all this time! Nor are there PSAs that continuously teach people how to use masks properly to protect themselves. In fact, there has been little progress in competently re-supplying the emergency stockpiles, which failed us so badly in 2020. The US is not ready for the next pandemic, even after lavishing trillions of dollars on our corporations and our wealthiest individuals.

The reason the vaccines also fall under the heading of "partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive" is because they are not really the kind of vaccines people expected. These vaccines do not eradicate Covid-19 the way that diseases like Smallpox or Polio were eradicated. Vaccinated people may still get the disease, and spread it. Some scientists say our failure to stop the virus and its ongoing mutations early on, could mean that Covid-19 will be with us for quite a while. I noticed this headline today:

Eight from Yankees test positive for Covid in post-vaccine breakthrough cases

.

How did that happen? When the Yankees reached the 85% vaccination level on April 30, it allowed MLB protocols to be loosened. Among the changes, the requirement for masks in dugouts and bullpens was dropped. But it was too much too soon for the vaccine.

—

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

Submitted by on the cusp on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 1:21am

Please see my comment below.

@Pluto's Republic I have wondered, questioned, voiced about any treatment protocol while a vaccination was being developed, and still wonder why treatment until then wasn't an imperative.
A friend with a relative who is a dr. prescribe him the HQ whatever, told him to skip on the approved prescription drug, and my friend felt like a new man in 24 hours. So, the dr. who prescribed the approved drug could get sued for prescribing something else. The relative, who is a dr., could prescribe it without worry he would get sued by a cousin.
And that's where we are.

....to deal with this virus can be described as partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive. This holds true for every approach to Covid-19, including prevention of the disease, prophylaxis to block infection, first aid for exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, real-time tracking of virus variants, pharmaceutical treatments, vaccine development, and secondary disease mitigation.

At the very beginning of the pandemic, a decision was made by the Overlords of the Medical Industry to funnel research primarily toward vaccines. The MIC owns the Medical journals and they oversee much of the research funding that goes out to private labs and universities. It was a simple matter for them to quietly launch an extreme-vaccine l research agenda via the endowments and grants they hand out. The funding would go to vaccine projects, and everything else would be 'shadow banned' — in the space but not speaking.

This one decision changed the course of Covid-19, and probably put the future of US health care in a state of uncertainty due to long term effects. It placed a profound drag on many plausible approaches and interventions that might have limited Covid-19's damage. For example, after more than a year of intense global research, the FDAA approved only one (!) treatment, the drug Remdesivir — which, it turns out, does not work well. And even it it did work — at $5000 per injection, few people could afford the treatment. Several repurposed (or 'off-label') drugs, which appeared to be effective treatments for the infection, were shunned. In some cases, these drugs were smeared by medical authorities, or they were attacked by flocks of me-too clinical trials that had terrible outcomes. As for Prevention, the methods pushed by the CDC were identical in every way to the prevention methods used for the Spanish Flu in 1918. Yet there were astonishing advancements relevant to SARS-CoV-2 in newly completed trials that were suppressed.

I won't describe how the Medical Industry agenda squeezed all the different approaches. Although there is one area of neglect that has bothered me from the beginning. The American People still don't have access to medically effective face masks — after all this time! Nor are there PSAs that continuously teach people how to use masks properly to protect themselves. In fact, there has been little progress in competently re-supplying the emergency stockpiles, which failed us so badly in 2020. The US is not ready for the next pandemic, even after lavishing trillions of dollars on our corporations and our wealthiest individuals.

The reason the vaccines also fall under the heading of "partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive" is because they are not really the kind of vaccines people expected. These vaccines do not eradicate Covid-19 the way that diseases like Smallpox or Polio were eradicated. Vaccinated people may still get the disease, and spread it. Some scientists say our failure to stop the virus and its ongoing mutations early on, could mean that Covid-19 will be with us for quite a while. I noticed this headline today:

Eight from Yankees test positive for Covid in post-vaccine breakthrough cases

.

How did that happen? When the Yankees reached the 85% vaccination level on April 30, it allowed MLB protocols to be loosened. Among the changes, the requirement for masks in dugouts and bullpens was dropped. But it was too much too soon for the vaccine.

—

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Submitted by Dawn's Meta on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 6:56am

Thank you SOE for this important and concise thread.

@Pluto's Republic Pluto, thank you for

The reason the vaccines also fall under the heading of "partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive" is because they are not really the kind of vaccines people expected. These vaccines do not eradicate Covid-19 the way that diseases like Smallpox or Polio were eradicated. Vaccinated people may still get the disease, and spread it.

This has been my understanding but could not find a nutshell version.

OTC: I too have allergies from a hypervigilant immune system. Lots of exposure to pesticides and herbicides living in Pear orchards; in the last few years when we were improving, big set backs because of heavy mold exposure followed by unventilated gas furnace exhaust exposure. Now we are hypersensitive to petrochemicals, antibiotics and many medications; small amounts of mold and other things like pollen.

In the US although previously we were yearly flu and pneumonia vaccine recipients, we were warned by our doctors not to vaccinate as the inoculation would stimulate our immune systems even more. So we haven't.

But we are now in a pickle looking at our options. Trying to get our hands on Ivermectin. Meanwhile using D, Zinc, Aloe, C, B12, L-lysine, raw Turmeric (Curcuma) and Ginger tea daily; after contact with others gargling with salt water mixed with a few drops of Provodine, also eyes and nose flushes of same. This is to hopefully kill any virus we may have picked up.

We don't know what else to do except hide and watch.

Thank you all again for a cogent discussion.

....to deal with this virus can be described as partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive. This holds true for every approach to Covid-19, including prevention of the disease, prophylaxis to block infection, first aid for exposure to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, real-time tracking of virus variants, pharmaceutical treatments, vaccine development, and secondary disease mitigation.

At the very beginning of the pandemic, a decision was made by the Overlords of the Medical Industry to funnel research primarily toward vaccines. The MIC owns the Medical journals and they oversee much of the research funding that goes out to private labs and universities. It was a simple matter for them to quietly launch an extreme-vaccine l research agenda via the endowments and grants they hand out. The funding would go to vaccine projects, and everything else would be 'shadow banned' — in the space but not speaking.

This one decision changed the course of Covid-19, and probably put the future of US health care in a state of uncertainty due to long term effects. It placed a profound drag on many plausible approaches and interventions that might have limited Covid-19's damage. For example, after more than a year of intense global research, the FDAA approved only one (!) treatment, the drug Remdesivir — which, it turns out, does not work well. And even it it did work — at $5000 per injection, few people could afford the treatment. Several repurposed (or 'off-label') drugs, which appeared to be effective treatments for the infection, were shunned. In some cases, these drugs were smeared by medical authorities, or they were attacked by flocks of me-too clinical trials that had terrible outcomes. As for Prevention, the methods pushed by the CDC were identical in every way to the prevention methods used for the Spanish Flu in 1918. Yet there were astonishing advancements relevant to SARS-CoV-2 in newly completed trials that were suppressed.

I won't describe how the Medical Industry agenda squeezed all the different approaches. Although there is one area of neglect that has bothered me from the beginning. The American People still don't have access to medically effective face masks — after all this time! Nor are there PSAs that continuously teach people how to use masks properly to protect themselves. In fact, there has been little progress in competently re-supplying the emergency stockpiles, which failed us so badly in 2020. The US is not ready for the next pandemic, even after lavishing trillions of dollars on our corporations and our wealthiest individuals.

The reason the vaccines also fall under the heading of "partial, temporary, incomplete, controversial, and inconclusive" is because they are not really the kind of vaccines people expected. These vaccines do not eradicate Covid-19 the way that diseases like Smallpox or Polio were eradicated. Vaccinated people may still get the disease, and spread it. Some scientists say our failure to stop the virus and its ongoing mutations early on, could mean that Covid-19 will be with us for quite a while. I noticed this headline today:

Eight from Yankees test positive for Covid in post-vaccine breakthrough cases

.

How did that happen? When the Yankees reached the 85% vaccination level on April 30, it allowed MLB protocols to be loosened. Among the changes, the requirement for masks in dugouts and bullpens was dropped. But it was too much too soon for the vaccine.

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A society grows great when old men plant trees in whose shade they know they shall never sit. Allegedly Greek, but more possibly fairly modern quote.

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Submitted by The Liberal Moonbat on Sun, 05/16/2021 - 2:33am

reality-based laws at least TRY to accommodate outliers

The TSA-like absolutism of all this is a red flag that who/whatever's making the calls is NOT rational. That's reason enough to stand against them, ESPECIALLY BECAUSE this is a real public health emergency.

The political binary being painted is also INFURIATING.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

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