My problem with Jimmy Dore
I voted for Ralph Nader in 2000 and I don't regret it. I clearly remember defending Ralph Nader on DKos from blue-check partisans that blamed him for the Democrats defeat.
They like to point out that Nader got 24,000 votes in Florida. Most of those votes were not from Democrats.
I would reply "what gives you the right to expect votes from other parties? And why do you not blame the 240,000 Democrats who voted for Bush?"
They would reply "they were DINO's and what do you expect from them?"
This is essentially what Jimmy Dore is doing today. Blaming the minority of left-wingers and giving a pass to the majority of conservatives.
I understand the need to hold progressives feet to the fire, and that's what Jimmy Dore is doing. Too often progressives get a free pass just for saying the right things and not backing them up with action.
But Dore goes to the next level. The progressives lack of putting up a good fight becomes Jimmy Dore's sole focus. Sort of like if you are being beaten by 30 thugs and your two friends didn't speak up or defend you, Dore would blame the beating on your two friends, not on the thugs.
Dore does literally this with every bad piece of legislation that Congress passes. It's never the fault of the people that wrote the bad laws. It's not the fault of the people that push the laws through.
With Dore the entire blame lies at the feet of badly outnumbered progressives for not blocking it.
You have to keep perspective especially in politics. Jimmy Dore does not have perspective anymore.
I still occasionally watch him. But I think he is on the shaky edge of confusing who his friends are and who his enemies are.
Comments
He speaks to me...
but I understand how mileage can vary. He is harsh. He said today, "people say my anger is a problem, what I want to know is why aren't you angry?"
I think he wants people to understand the democrats are not on the side of the people...cause they are not. So he may go a bit overboard but who else is speaking truth to power like Jimmy? May be Chris Hedges, the grayzone crowd, caity johnstone, George Galloway, but few others.
Just sayin' My partner finds him over the top, but I like him.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
You know what is HARSH?
The government prohibiting you from working/ making your humble living, and then doing nothing for you to replace that meager income that keeps you and your dependents off the streets.
I saw this movie before with mostly the same cast in 2008 (2009-2016). Obama sold us "Hope and Change", disguised as more of the same. His first act was to make the banks whole, and tell the rest of Americans to pound sand. That recession put my life in a tailspin, cut what is supposed to be the most important decade right out the middle. Shuttered my business, and I've been relatively poor, hanging by a thread and scratching for crumbs ever since, despite my best efforts otherwise.
Biden will be more of the same, the so called progressividiots are going to provide cover.
It's funny how pandemic relief is deadlocked, but the near entirety of congress has "bipartisan" passage of a bloated TRILLION dollar war budget.
Fuck the Republicons.
Fuck the Demoncrats.
Fuck the Fake Fucking Progressives.
None of those parties will ever tend to our best interests.
Hopefully no offense to you Lookout, I'm mostly replying to gjohnsit (and no offense to you either g).
Believe me you guys are the good guys and I think highly of all your writings here.
And a Trillion dollar corporate bailout
Grants for mega-corporations. Loans for smaller businesses.
NOTHING for laid off workers or workers at businesses ordered to close by Dem Governors like waitpersons, clerks, bartenders, cocktail waitresses, hotel staff, musicians ...
Watched an episode of THe Roosevelts on PBS yesterday. narrator said that Roosevelt turned to the Right to provide business to corporations like Ford and US Steel. Not the take that I would say. I mused that what really ended the Depression was:
a. removing millions of younger men from the workforce by drafting them into the Army and Navy
b. Providing plenty of work and even overtime for the rest of the workers. In the late '70s I interviewed Western electric in Cicero IL. I told them about being fascinated by an eighth grade school visit to the plant and the overhead conveyors full of telephones. He looked to be my father's age and said the plant was a madhouse in WWII with over 50,000 workers on three shifts, seven days a week. I heard similar stories about Long Beach Naval Shipyard, three shifts, seven days. Surely it was also true of Brooklyn Naval shipyard where so many Cruisers and Battleships were built and Electric Boat in Portsmouth NH.
c. The postwar building boom fueled by GI loans and discharged soldiers and sailors quickly picking up their lives, marrying and buying homes in housing projects, the low cost alternative to singly built houses. That provoked the building of roads and automobiles. Electronic technology born of wartime crash projects gave birth to the Nifty Fifties where any company with -ix at the end of it's name become an overnight success. Chicago was the television capital of the USA. I worked my way through college working in those plants. Then, came trickle-down theories and the opening of international trade. One by one the television and radio companies died., the business going to Japan, Korea and now China sucking up all the business leaving a blighted city full of welfare recipients, dope pushers and gangsters where once there were working families and a beacon to ambitious southern black people who migrated to Illinois and Michigan to build televisions, and cars and yes, bang cattle over the head in slaughterhouses. All union jobs, now gone away, first to the Right-to-work-for-less states then to even cheaper labor overseas, the few meat packers left full of Hispanic immigrants working in appalling conditions for low wages.
And what started it all? What fueled the transition from the worst depression in American history to the greatest boom? Putting money and jobs in the hands of the 99%, indeed the bottom 50%, the rest followed naturally. Trickle-UP not Trickle-down.
IOW, putting money in the hands of the people, not the one percent. They got their share too in the form of profits from bank loans, real estate sales, and all sorts of civilian goods that had been deferred by the war. Trickle UP, not trickle DOWN.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Giving money to the rich uplifts them, but demeans the poors.
I once read a piece whose author eludes me way back when who spoke on money and class under capitalism. Must have been the Reagan years and the assault on welfare. He wrote that in the moral universe of capitalism giving money to the rich uplifts them, while giving money to poor people demeans them. Hitchens noted before he liked Bush that Bush believed that the rich uplift the poor, therefore we should uplift the rich. We see this moral ranking in the arguments right wingers made against the CARES stimulus checks and additional unemployment monies as creating a slovenly and lazy class of people. People would not look for jobs, forgetting that the jobs people had gone away never to return. Of course giving trillions to rich people would save the country. Same sorts of rationale right wingers use to argue against higher min. wages. It seems that the study of economics is more a morality pseudo-science than anything else.
Conventional American economics . . .
as taught to undergraduates (Intro to macroeconomics, Intro to microeconomics) is best thought of as an especially malevolent fundamentalist religion.
I was told just today
that my opinion of Joe Biden was too harsh and takes away all hope from people who voted for him. I was told this because I said that under Biden things will not get better, but will just have a kinder face on them. I also said that we will probably more wars under Biden based upon the hawkish choices he is floating for his administration, and as long as we continue to wage war on the world, things will never get better at home. Is this dashing the hope for a better future or is it being real?
Jimmy Dore is doing us a service by speaking out harshly against those who are supposed to be on the side of the people, but who fold under the slightest pressure. Continuing with the lesser of two evils thinking is what has gotten us where we are today. Each lesser evil Democratic administration has led to a far greater evil Republican one. Personally I see them as one party, but decided to frame it in the terms that it was framed in 2020. Orange Man bad, so we must vote for Joe who has already promised that nothing will fundamentally change. How is this progress?
We need people of courage to speak out and hold those who say they are for us (we the people) accountable. There is no way to do so without being harsh. Times are extremely harsh right now and they are fixing to become far more harsh for a significant number of Americans. These people in Congress were elected to represent the people. Very few of them actually do so. Calling out those whom we know will not do so is easy. Calling out those who purport to stand for us but fail to do so takes guts and can be very unpopular as I learned today. Jimmy Dore has guts.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Hope. Hoping someone
who tells you what they are will suddenly change is magical thinking, not hope. Hedges put it that way and it fits. You "took away" a fantasy, not real hope.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Thank you
I am finding myself doing more and more self censoring among the very people I should be able to have a conversation with. What depresses me about this whole episode is that I believe a significant percentage of "good liberals" actually believe that things will be much better under Biden. This person who said this to me has an upper level degree, so ignorance is no excuse. Pointing out the truth (according to Biden himself) only makes them angry at the messenger. It is truly frightening just how propagandized the American people are.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98 People with upper
People with upper degrees usually have upper incomes, so this will be "better" for them, or at least the same under Biden, just nicer.
The fancy education is the problem
The former Republican, now Democratic Defense Secretary during the escalation years in Vietnam, Robert McNamara was an intellectual prodigy who had gone to Harvard. He was one of the mega-fools who actually designed the war against Vietnam. One of his core beliefs was "if you cannot count it, it doesn't exist". Right Bob. The absolute determination of a culture to rid itself of thieving, murderous invaders is something quite real but how exactly do you propose to count it? And yet this determination that when you cannot count something, it doesn't exist, means there is nothing you can do to change the MOST important rule of the war you wish to wage—a war you cannot win in any meaningful sense.
And while the Strange one was certainly a bright boy, the idea that if something cannot be be counted it doesn't exist could only have been learned at Harvard. He wasn't clever enough to dream it up himself. Rather, it was one of the battle cries of those who were trying to make the social sciences more "scientific". And so the monstrous war crimes associated with inflation of the body counts was the result of rich-kid world views cobbled together by folks who believed that parroting such madness was a sign they had properly absorbed the core respectable teachings necessary to run the Empire.
I'm in full agreement....
However, I'm not sure the harshness (by which I mean the yelling ranting tirades) is effective educating people who don't understand the nature of our nation. Jimmy said again today, "people say my anger is a problem, but what I don't understand is why aren't you angry?" People should be angry about this broken system and violent empire.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
IMHO, it depends upon who the audience is
When we would talk with people during our weekly Peace vigil, our approach was one of friendliness and non-combativeness. We tried to listen more than talk. A good reason for that was we were in a small southern town and the majority of people we talked with tended to be self described conservatives. So we went for trying to create a dialogue that allowed the people we were talking with have a sense of ownership in the conversation.
Jimmy's target audience is not the conservatives IMHO. His target audience is the comfortable liberal class that so many of us know. By that I mean, people who are educated and still living comfortably and who think as long as they support social issues, they are progressive. They are the very voters who supported Joe Biden to rid us of the Orange Cheeto and who honestly believe that once Trump is gone, everything will be okay. These people need to be rudely awakened by Jimmy's righteous anger because they will be going to brunch and back to sleep after the inauguration.
That is my opinion of why Jimmy is the way he is. His anger is real and it is aimed squarely at the liberal class. I feel the very same anger and frustration myself because I have seen it among my friends.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Dore no more
And with that perspective went any small spattering of power he ever may have had.
Which is why I watch him less than I used to.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
If Dore keeps going in the same direction
There will come a day when Dore will be telling you why you need to vote Republican to defeat the Democrats.And it won't be because the Republicans moved to the left
He calls for a third party
almost every segment he does. He is trying to steer towards that, not Republicans.
I agree with him that we should not depend on a small number of progressives in the D party to swing the D's left.
I agree with him that the Squad, et al, fall in the party line over and over again.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
He does a lot more than that
If this was his point I would agree with them.
But that's not what he saying.
He's saying the small number of progressives in the Democratic Party ARE the problem. That we should actively reject and denounce those progressives.That we would be better off if there were no progressives in the Democratic Party
What is also saying is that we should put all of our eggs in the basket of a startup 3rd party.
This is why I have a problem with Jimmy
I do not intrepret his criticisms as you do.
In fact, just because establishment Dems tear their asses up to keep the progressives towing the party line, I do not feel they are protected from criticisms by lefties for towing that line. I want them to hear it, loudly, clearly, that they caved in, and are useless. They do not vote in accordance with the rhetoric that got them elected. It is true progressives that should be the most vocal in calling out their uselessness.
By the same token, gjohnsit, if he gets on your nerves, turn him off.
I just conclude he doesn't want the progressive voters to be fooled again by anybody on the Dem ticket.
Republicans never fool their voters.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I'll give Jimmy credit for one thing
He figured out the one rule in American media: there is always a market for punching left
Are you joking?
Republican are always
low tax/less regulation/thump the Bible/suppress the votes of POCs. Their voters are satisfied.
I agree punching left is great for establishment D's and R's, but disagree Dore is cashing in.
The 3rd party organizers he often interviews are farther left than the Squad.
As I said before, just turn him off. I never listen to anyone from the media who irritates me.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Dore
I like Dore. Sure, he exaggerates, but the more questioning voices the better. And who else is going to give Yanis Varofakis a place to speak? Varofakis has a rare perspective, informed and kind.
I watch him as often as I can.
I actually like, ok, love, a good smack down, and his unrelenting criticism of the "progressives" is welcome to my ears.
I always say, "I may not win this case, but I will put up and fight and look good losing!"
I think that is what he is doing. He is putting up the best fight he can.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The way I see Jimmy’s rants I’d that
there are very few progressives in congress and since they have been ragging on McConnell/republicans and not democrats he’s telling them to put their money where their mouth is. Bernie has been tweeting non stop about $2k monthly payments to people who have lost their jobs and are at risk of losing everything, but when it’s time for him to stand up for that he doesn’t. AOC rarely calls out Pelosi/democrats, but she too has been saying we need more. Since blue dawg democrats will never work with the left and republicans won’t it’s up to those who say that they are fighting for us.
Yeah Jimmy’s over the top a lot of times and it’s a turnoff for some, but I see his rants as trying to wake up more people and is trying to start something. Can he call for general strikes or would that be better left to people in congress? If no one blocks the immunity giveaway then they aren’t real progressives. Is Bernie putting his career at risk by blocking a vote? Don’t see how when republicans get away with it all the time. If Bernie nor the squad stands up for us then that says everything.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Doubt congress will do jack for us
as mentioned above, it is healthy to have some adversity to rock the boat.
complacency by the msm stenographers is anything but inspiring
give ''em hell Jimmy. make people think, wake up sleepy minds.
There is a vast untapped power there, IMO.
I don't care if it is a rake, shovel, pitchfork or Dore.
Sew seeds of discontent and something will grow.
There is a vast untapped power there, IMO
I don't care if it is a rake, shovel, pitchfork or Dore.
Sew seeds of discontent and something will grow.
True. Let’s add more water.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Those who see Jimmy as over the top
are likely the same people who still hold out hope that the Democratic Party can be redeemed. I believe that is a baseless hope and that the functional difference between the two parties today is approaching nil. They both deserve the full measure of criticism and contempt that Jimmy Dore metes out to each.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
But he doesn't
Jimmy doesn't meet out criticism of the right wing anymore. Almost all of his criticism is on for the left-wing.
But what’s left to be said about them?
I see the point you are making, but what good does it do for democrats to criticize the republicans? But ovals makes the point I’ve been trying to make to democratic voters. Why are you expecting democrats to change after they have shown you who/what they are for decades? We keep thinking that if we put enough pressure on democrats they will do the right things for us. Obama said that we should make him do it. Well I tried. Clinton and Obama were the more effective evil than Bush/Trump because they both did more damage to the working class. I’m sure someone can tell me who did worse, but democratic presidents rarely get the criticism from democrats so they get away with more. Gutting welfare was a huge deal because it’s add to our economic woes for poorer people.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Let me ask you this
Why must all the punching go left?
Conservatives punch left, moderates punch left, even progressives punch left.
There's no one left on the left punch. There's no one left on the left that has any power.
If you want to punch up, you have to punch right. End of story
see, Jimmy just punches, that's
left right thingy seems as "important" as the 'I say tomato, you say tomaaahtoe', either, neither, let's call the whole thing off. I hope you can smile at this:
[video:https://youtu.be/J2oEmPP5dTM]
https://www.euronews.com/
You punch left cuz it's those people that are the gatekeepers
for the right, you punch left cuz they are the sheep in Wolf's clothing.
JD is one of the good guys speaking truth to power and right now the world needs alot more of those types
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Will there ever be a day when it's OK to punch right?
Or is hippy-punching a permanent thing, even for hippies?
Didn't Jesus say "Fuck the meek. The powerless deserve it."
I think he's punching right when he
notes, correctly, that people supporting the democratic party are supporting the right. If you're a registered democrat, or if you support politicians who are registered democrats, you're not on the left, and "punching" you isn't punching left. At all.
Change from within is either dumb or not serious.
Republicans tell you how they’re going to
fuck you over, and then fuck you over. Democrats tell you they’re going to help you, and then fuck you over. Which do you find most offensive?
It’s no contest for me. The one that fucks you over AND LIES to you in the process is the clear winner in my view, and well deserving an extra measure of criticism. The fairness doctrine does not apply.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
Right.
I don't watch Jimmy Dore enough to complain about him in the way that gjohnsit does, but there's something to be said for the argument that the enemy who pretends to be your friend is worse than the enemy who doesn't.
I mean, I presume that everyone here noticed the extraordinary peer pressure effort that is marshaled every four years to get anyone left of Hitler to vote for the (D) candidate regardless of what they stand for. Do you all remember how bad Obama's "Trans-Pacific Partnership" and "Grand Bargain" were in fact going to be?
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
The Dem party does not pretend to be a friend to progressives
I keep hearing this ... but I do not understand why people think this. The Dem party completely and fully took off their mask at the latest in the spring 2016. Biden's campaign was openly hostile to the Bernie wing of the dem party, and they made no pretenses about it whatsoever.
Honestly people... sometimes I just feel so isolated... but come on. Anyone who considers themselves a "progressive" and has not yet seen and understood that the dem party is clearly, openly, directly hostile to your beliefs is being willfully ignorant.
They are NOT pretending to be your friends, any more than the republicans are. What does it take for some people to get the "hint" that their party does not want you! They are fooling you? Really? Well... maybe it is time to stop believing the bullshit, rather than constantly complaining about how they lie. Oy.
Well they could stop listening to Bernie Sanders.
And the "task force" crap.
Didn't Joe promise a couple trillions for his climate plan?
Didn't Joe promise to lower the Medicare age to 60?
Didn't Joe promise to "improve" the ACA (whatever that means)?
I mean, sure, it was all basically false promises, and anyone who read the news carefully knew that. But he made these promises, and it was reinforced by all of the nonsense Bernie Sanders put out when he campaigned for Joe Biden.
Look, "the Left" behaved atrociously in the run-up to the election.
They bullied their own kind, from the security of safe states, into voting for Joe Biden.
They incessantly repeated this vast exaggeration of Donald Trump as a "fascist."
They pointed to Bernie Sanders, who was busy creating a completely phony facade around Joe Biden. They pointed to Noam Chomsky, who didn't really think his advice to vote for Joe Biden was all that important, and then touted this advice as if it were the only thing Chomsky stood for.
They had a chance to organize FOR THEMSELVES -- hey look, there's a MOVEMENT FOR A PEOPLE'S PARTY -- nah, we'll elect Joe Biden and then pressure him (without mentioning the People's Party).
Well, okay, my YouTube feed now shows a Jimmy Dore video.
gjohnsit asks: Why is Jimmy Dore attacking only "progressives"? Here's the right question: what is Jimmy Dore saying, and is it true or false?
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
Who is "they" ?
I am sorry, sincerely, but I do not understand who you are attacking as in, they did this and they did that.
So once again: I am speaking from my own perspective. Only. I do not know from 'they' and I don't identify with any group or whatever... so you are probably assuming and talking about a lot of things that are not addressed to me personally. For the record I have long advocated not listening to Bernie Sanders anymore, nor to any other candidate running as a democrat. Including not just Bernie Sander but also the sainted AOC and Tulsi Gabbard and the rest of the "squad" and other "progressive democrats" because in the end they all endorsed Joe Biden and got on board with the Democratic Party and told their followers to do the same. ALL of them.
So why does anyone listen to any of them anymore ... I have no idea. But as far as I'm concerned that ship sailed long ago. Who gives a crap what Biden "promised" when everyone knows he said nothing will fundamentally change and he's not about to do anything "radical" because you know, he defeated the socialist! Yes he said that. So what the fuck ever about his empty promises. No one should have imagined he was going to do anything good, and who did, really? Did you see that poll where many more people said they were happy trump lost, but not happy that Biden won? Yeah that is how most people feel. "Gee this all might possibly get just a tiny bit better, maybe. But probably not." That is how the people I know in real life feel. They are just worn down. All this political bullshit means very little to them.
What's the confusion about?
When I say:
... what I mean by "they" is "the Left."
Was that unclear?
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
Well... ok, yes it is unclear, to me
That doesn't mean you are being unclear in your writing, but as I don't know who you mean by "the left" it doesn't tell me what you mean.
See, when I think of what it means to be on the left, I think it means people who are anti-war, anti-capitalism, anti-globalist, etc. I personally don't think there is anyone I would consider a true "leftist" who is within the democratic party.
If you mean, people who call themselves "left" because they want things like Medicare-for-all or to expand the social safety net, but operate from within the dem party, I guess they are relatively "left" but not what I would call the Left. Maybe these are "progressives" ?
What about all those who want to focus on identity politics? Are they "the left"? Hell, I don't know. I think it depends on who you ask.
This labeling thing gets tiresome. My point is, to answer your question: no the term "the left" does not, to me, convey a clear idea of who exactly you are referring to.
Okay, that's different.
"the Left" in America is pretty much anyone who proclaims her- or himself to be part of "the Left." But it looks this way: a lot of us want a revolution. Are we going to get a revolution? If we're not, does it matter as regards our political identity that we want a revolution? You can run down the list and ask the same question: does it matter as regards our political identity if we want X and we're not going to get X?
Right now it appears as if the only revolution we're going to get is from the Republican Party, and from someone who's a lot more serious about doing something in politics than Trump was.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
Yep
This
I’m there and have been since Obama’s FISA vote.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
He is criticizing the FAKE left
Not the Real Left.
He doesn't pull any punches with Pelosi, Schumer, et. al. either.
Not necessarily true
Speaking for me personally, I have been completely uninterested in the efforts for a "progressive takeover" of the Dem party ever since 2016 when the Democrats viciously crushed Bernie Sanders and, more importantly to me, the millions of people who were excited about what Bernie was saying and were ready to vote for real change. And the Dem party made it abundantly, unmistakably, crystal clear that such a change was *never* going to happen, and they laughed in the faces of everyone who had poured their blood, sweat and tears into that effort to make an actual difference through electoral politics.
Eyes opened, wallet closed; not one more penny from me nor a minute more of my time is ever going toward any politician or cause that is about "reforming" or "taking over" the democratic party. It is a complete waste of time and energy, as I have said on here many times in the past (and was taken to task for being "negative" about it, I might add).
Nonetheless, I still find Jimmy Dore incredibly shallow and his emotional rants to be useless and boring. All he ever does is preach to the choir. His entire show is about throwing red meat to angry progressives who hate democrats. Hate, hate, hate them! But I certainly don't need that kind of emotion around my political choices, and I truly don't understand why so many people enjoy reinforcing and wallowing in pure hatred. I don't know why anyone finds his schtick entertaining, but for me he is predictable and the other problem with him is that he is extremely repetitive -- almost rivaling Rachel Maddow in the condescending repetition of the blindingly obvious, like he thinks his audience is a bunch of young children who need to hear that same thing over and over at least 28 times in 15 minutes.
Expanding on that
There is a lot of reasons to hate the Democrats.
But show based on hating a political party doesn't leave much room for hope and positive change.
In fact it becomes part of the culture war. And I'm sick and tired of that
I don't hate Democrats any more than Republicans
I think there are plenty of reasons to hate the whole fake "two party system" that blocks hope for any path forward through electoral politics, but if one must indulge in hate, I think it should at least be allocated equally among all the power players of this deadly game.
So I do actually agree with you, gjohnsit, that if all the hate is reserved for one party, while giving the other party a complete pass, that really does not make sense.
As has been said countless times before, it is two-headed monster of a single corporate party. Hating this side of the beast, but not that side, is a complete mystery to me.
I shouldn’t have to say how much I despise republicans
every time I criticize democrats. For me it’s a given. I know republicans aren’t going to do anything for me nor will democrats, but it’s the democrats that keep leading people on with their false hope. Jimmy’s trying to wake people up to see this. I bet they don’t like republicans either, but just a guess.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Jimmy is not waking anyone up
As I said, he is preaching to the choir. No one who does not already agree with him is listening to his rants. He feeds red meat to a base of people who agree with him and enjoy consuming (or somehow take pleasure in) the rage and hatred he presents.
To each their own, whatevs... I was simply speaking for myself, as I said. I simply don't get hating only one side of the two-headed beast, when both parties play the game together. No need to get defensive about it, if you prefer to attack only one side all the time that is up to you, obviously.
The problem
with democrats is how much they enable republicans, collaborate with them. They say what they stand for, then ignore or compromise that line in the sand away, and us with it. After satisfying their donors, fighting for us is just fighting over crumbs that dems are most willing to barter away and call it a win. When their compromises harm us the dems lecture us that what they did was the best anyone could do, we should be grateful. The republicans just wouldn't let them do more.
In the end it's the lefts fault, because socialism, the perfect is the enemy of the good, 9th dimensional chess and Ralph Nader. I am so sick of watching reruns of this movie.
You are soooo right about that
Today I watched Schumer berate McConnell’s immunity deal and said that it shouldn’t pass. Not sure if it’s true but Twitter just said that McConnell got it passed.
It’s all kabuki bullshit. For 4 years we’ve been hearing about how Trump has been putting industry insiders in his administration and here is Biden doing the exact same thing with Austin. The military is not supposed to be in charge of itself. But Biden’s asking for a waiver. Obama gave Trump his.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
What would a good, effective alternative be?
Where would it come from?
I don’t hate Democrats.
I just hate what they do. There is a difference.
Capitalism is the extraordinary belief that the nastiest of men for the nastiest of motives will somehow work for the benefit of all."
- John Maynard Keynes
I don’t hate the dems any more,
But as the country song goes, “I don’t hate ‘em any less...”
Your mileage may vary.
Twice bitten, permanently shy.
Jimmy Dore is a national treasure
The Republicans are who they are, the Right wing, in principle and action. The Democrats are a bunch of hypocrites, they are to the right of center in all but identity politics. The "Progressive" are not progressives at all, but about where the Democrat Party should be. To get the slightest amount of power in Washington they defer to the Democrat power center. This is a losing strategy. It is insane that the people poll far to the left of the Democrat establishment e.g M4A. Somebody has to wake the people up. Anyone leaning to the Left has gotten thoroughly screwed. The Democrat establishment sees their purpose in life to make sure that Progressives get nowhere, whatever it costs. The MSM goes along with this and will black out any Progressive candidate, as we have seen. We need someone who shouts this from the top of his lungs, 24/7. Making nice to not offend anyone will not make any progress. People want to hear how they are getting screwed and will get behind you. This is how Donald Trump became President, as unlikely as it would seem, with an insane message. We should be able to do this on the Left, but with a real message talking about Economic and Social justice. That's why the Democrat establishment is so scared of us.
Jimmy has a huge following. He is well respected amongst the real Progressive community, and you know who I am talking about. He claims that he is right about most current topics, especially relative to those who criticize him. Based on what I have seen, for instance Russian Collusion, he is right. He knew it was bunk at the start. My wife and I have seen two of his live shows. It's a lot of fun and there is an intense sense of community. I talked to many of the people around me in the audience , and it was truly incredible. It was the first time that I felt comfortable in a group of people where I could express my real political convictions. I didn't have to pull any punches or worry about offending some card carrying Democrat dipshit.
People like Jimmy are about where the "New Left" was during the Vietnam War protests. We despised Democrats far more than we hated Republicans. We certainly did not agree with Republicans but we thought that they were at least principled in their beliefs and actions. LBJ was the perfect example of a hypocrite Democrat. He built US military presence to 600,000 soldiers in Vietnam and bombed the piss out of them killing some one million civilians. But he was a good card carrying Librul, even more so that the center of the Democrat Party today. The Democrat Party equals LBJ's war mongering but has none of his sense of domestic social justice, they are firmly in the pockets of the banks and the corporations. How do we break this? Not by lying to people who want to believe the Progressive message. Not by deferring to Progressives who constantly give in to the Democrat Party establishment. They sold their souls to the devil for one goal, to get rid of DT. Should we be nice to them, or should we tell it like it is? They have to come around to the understanding that being Progressive is a real political philosophy and you have to understand it and be principled or never succeed.
Capitalism has always been the rule of the people by the oligarchs. You only have two choices, eliminate them or restrict their power.
Well put wiz
separating the wheat from the chaff.
The kernel of progressive idealism
is what we need now to change the direction
of this duopoly deception.
Don't shoot the messenger.
I'm with you,wizard.
I like Jimmy Dore and his message. He is very passionate. But sometimes I have to quit watching because I hear the same monologue in my head and I just need a rest from it occasionally.
Like him, I wish "The Squad" would fight Pelosi and Schumer instead of just saying the right things while voting for the wrong things. They will have to put political expediency to the side in order to get anything done. I'm waiting for them to oppose Pelosi and to FIGHT. We simply don't have time to back and fill and play some sort of a waiting game. The People's Party is a gamble. The Earth is dying. It's worse than we are told and even people who are old now may experience the final days. The U.S. is in the worst economic shape I have ever seen and getting worse. When the Congress fails to allot enough aid to help the hungry and the cold and homeless we will be back in a new version of the winter of 1932.
As an aside I want to add this test that I took. I recommend it to everyone here. It helps clarify one's basic political positions/beliefs if you think thoroughly about the questions as you answer them:
https://leftvalues.github.io/
I got a few surprises and lots of confirmation, but I also got a new set of shorthand definitions that are useful. It defined for me why I think our current politics are lethal and which way I think we should move. Perhaps it will help some of you too. Most importantly it shows what "left" politics is and how big the tent is.
Good luck to all of us.
-Greed is not a virtue.
-Socialism: the radical idea of sharing.
-Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable.
John F. Kennedy, In a speech at the White House, 1962
"The People's Party is a gamble."
@It's ALL a gamble. It was a gamble when they shut off my electricity and Internet on September 8th of this year and the cops drove past my house and told me to evacuate. It was a gamble when "the Left" in America threw its whole weight behind Joe Biden, a man who had, and has, no idea of why he should help the great mass of Americans at all.
Get used to gambling.
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama
I just took the "test" you linked.
My college pals of 1969, my law school pals of 1983, my neighbors of 2020 all call me a commie.
According to the test rating system, I am 97.69% Counsel Communist.
Well, they said not to expect 100%.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Pfffff!
Well, hell. Damn test called me a Commie, too.
I gave up on that test after around the 2Oth question
and, darn it, I have no problems with Jimmy Dore. A needed voice. He explains everything in ways my brain can understand. And that means something, ie he has extraordinary skills to be able to achieve that /s
JImmy should sit with Ron Placone again, if he can. He also needs a break from time to time. I think he is funny quite often.
Me thinks that left and right and liberal and progressive all have no meaning anymore since about a year and a half, or may be since four years. Times have changed. Covid and criminal politicians are to blame, imo.
Way back in the Vietnam War protests years in Berlin many of us liked the slogan "Ami go home" What I did not know back then, was how few Americans have a home. Homelessness is a feature, not a bug, And those who profit from it, need to go to prison. And basically I liked the "Ami's music and humor". I guess what we meant was "Ami, take your politics home and leave us alone". I guess we were just dummies. But who isn't a dummy?
I am tired of BS, you too? So I stop talking now.
https://www.euronews.com/
I took the test
and this was my result. I have been told that I am an anarchist which kind of shocks me, but then the test said something similar.
It is weird because my personal focus has always been anti-war as opposed to environmentalism.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I got the same rating, I'm glad a definition was handy
@The Wizard ♥
♥
Awesome, Wiz.
You own the internet, 12/7/2020.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I've enjoyed Jimmy, Steph and Ron Placone in the past
but having Jimmy literally read through every quote that is highlighted behind him, gets annoying very quickly. I can read Jimmy. Maybe take that time to riff more with Steph and Ron. The point has been made.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Jimmy is Punching Right!
That's what you're missing. All the Dems who claim to be progressive, yet do nothing for working families, are to the right of what Jimmy's pushing for. He's calling out people who claim to be on the same team, but in reality are bad faith actors or sheepdogs. They're lefty's on twitter, but they won't back it up with anything that might risk their own position. Eugene Debs, who Bernie has a portrait of in his office, ran for President from a prison cell. “While there is a lower class, I am in it, while there is a criminal element, I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free.” I don't see that kind of commitment from any Democrat.
Bingo.
as long as “the squad” fall in line with the right wing Dems, which they continue to do, they aren’t on our side.
We know the Republicans are bad. If you need to hear more of that, there’s plenty of other places you can go. I don’t see the point in making a deal of it because we know what they’re about.
But I think there’s too much blind acceptance that anyone claiming to be progressive is doing the right thing. I see what Dore is doing as holding their feet to the fire. Saying or tweeting the right thing is worthless when the actions don’t back it up. I think that’s valid criticism.
FWIW, I’m not a huge fan of his show. I think his videos usually are 1/3 the point he’s trying to make and 2/3 ranting, often using the exact same catch phrases he uses in other videos. It’s a little wearing. But I don’t know who else is voicing that 1/3 that he is.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Why are you bitching at Jimmy?
He is rihgt you know.
I come to this place less and less lately and you WERE one of the few reasons why I still drop in at all.
Attack Jimmy Dore? Wtf?
Jimmy has changed
He is not the same that he used to be.
I can't be the only person that has noticed this.
I wish he spent more time punching up, against Wall Street, against monopolies, against wars, against people with real power.
Did you see any of his
Tuesday evening broadcasts with Dylan Ratigan? It was brilliant. An explanation of Wall Street ponzi schemes, the CARES Act, monopolies, all dumbed down so people with no education on markets and economics could begin to understand what was going on, and how the 99% were being forever screwed.
He doesn't go directly after the right, since they are guaranteed to go the small government, oligarch way. He goes after the lefties who time and time again, align with the right.
Republicans never surprise anybody, or disappoint their constituents.Only the left disappoints, and sometimes betrays, theirs.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I gotta disagree
There's a reason why the Republican base is so angry, and why they nominated Trump.
They know that they've been betrayed by their party leaders, just like more and more progressives are realizing it with the Dems.
gjohns,
the Tea Party got Cruz, among others, and then the real radical right got Trump. And Bannon. And they did it by hounding, and constantly berating and threatening the establishment right.
It works. Harass, hound, berate, threaten to withhold a vote...
Why can't that work for lefties?
You voted for Nader. You vote Green. You did NOT get suckered in to voting for "progressive D's" candidates. Nothing slams a fake progressive more than what you have done. Dore mouths off, but you tore a section right off the "left's" ass. You just did it a quiet, secretive way.
I don't see much daylight between what you do, and what Dore encourages others to do.
I think your voting record is awesome.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I admit to ignoring as much Republican politics
as possible. Still, what I did read about was their split, Tea Party v. Establishment, was an AstroTurfed Libertarian campaign funded by the Koch brothers. As to the usual reason for Trump over the usual RWNJs, it seemed to be draining the swamp of Republicans that couldn't wipe out the legacy of Obama. Besides, he is a spectacular horse's ass, and that gets lots of attention at the voting booth.
While Trump might sign a bill Pelosi negotiated, he still gets to call her names. That thrills Republicans.
Republicans stick together, Democrats constantly vote with them.
Bottom line: I don't see gun totin' men flying Biden flags in the back of their pick ups. I do see Trump flags, and heard guns firing off for 3 or 4 days after the election.
I think Dore is funny, you don't.
He is easily ignored.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Why are you bitching at Jimmy?
He is rihgt you know.
I come to this place less and less lately and you WERE one of the few reasons why I still drop in at all.
Attack Jimmy Dore? Wtf?
Why are you bitching at Jimmy?
He is rihgt you know.
I come to this place less and less lately and you WERE one of the few reasons why I still drop in at all.
Attack Jimmy Dore? Wtf?
Sounding too much like Randi Rhodes
I have no problem with what he says. My issue is more stylistic than anything. Anybody remember Randi Rhodes during the Bush and Obama years? She used to go on rants and would hector her listeners as if they were all Rush Limburger's audience come to fck with her. She did the same with her callers. She would look to any excuse to yell at callers even those that obviously liked and agreed with her.
Jimmy goes a bit too often into hectoring his viewers. Luckily on his live streams Steph reads the chats and is upbeat and positive. Kyle Kulinski covers many of the same subjects and is emotional and funny but does not turn on his viewers accusing them of being pitiful if they don't agree.
Off hand, it seems that the anti-Bush Air America crowd seemed to drift into oblivion once Obama was elected. Except for a few like Maddow.
I agree
I agree with you. I used to like Jimmy Dore, though he was never my favorite commentator. But now I just find him too negative and I no longer watch. I don't know why a certain subset of people are constantly putting down the allies we have in Congress? Sure, no one is perfect and I may not agree with every single thing that AOC does, or Ilhan Omar does or Pramila Jayapal does, but overall those people are our allies and we need to support them as much as possible.
I've never really watched a whole Jimmy Dore show.
I've tuned into segments that people link in discussions here and there. I found a couple of them very well expressed, but over all I start feeling like I'm in a room with an 8th grader.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I think it's funny. I
I think it's funny. I honestly think he is really mad about this stuff. He isn't just rating to rant, he is honestly in a rage over it. I understand that. I feel the same. Sometimes it's good to listen to someone else rant and rage so you don't have to
Just because our community here recognizes what's going on doesn't mean everyone does. I don't see what he says anywhere else (or very few places). I like to share his videos and I always hope it hits home with someone else. He has really been bagging on "the squad" lately bc of the CARES act and the "fall in line, vote for Biden" crap. I don't blame him. F those guys!
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
Speaking of that
I don't think Jimmy actually understands the CARES Act.
He seems to think that it was the instrument of how the working class got screwed over.
When in fact, what was wrong with the CARES Act was what the Act lacked.
His criticisms of the Squad seem rather selective and superficial lately.
He seem to demand that the Squad fight every symbolic battle that comes along, rather than them picking their fights, limiting their battles to those that they have the potential of making an impact.
I'm personally glad that the Squad doesn't follow Jimmy's advise. They would be fools to.
One last thing, but it may be the most important thing - Jimmy Dore is a comedian. Jimmy used to be funny on his podcasts, while still making a point. He's not funny anymore.
True
I watched his old show with Neera done live and he was funny. He is angry now.
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
@gjohnsit
I guess for me...I used to call myself a democrat, then I was seriously pissed after the 2008 bailout. My husband and I were struggling to get the bills paid after moving to California and realizing the huge cost of living there. It was a move that has since worked out for us, but at the time it was really stressful.
After being a lifelong voter and paying attention to political issues, I started to become apathetic re: politics. I was so pissed at government that for a time I became excited about the idea of libertarianism. I didn't want the government to have any power because the mostly used it to screw people anyways.
After finding Jimmy I have re-realized that wanting the government to do the right thing(ie: M4A, strong safety net, no more unnecessary war) IS the answer, but getting them to do it is pretty much impossible. I now know nothing will ever be right until money is out of politics, and short of a full on bloody revolution that probably ain't going to happen so I enjoy listening to Jimmy talk about what fucking assholes politicians are...long winded-sorry!
If it was easy, everyone would do it.
I get it
Until about a year ago I was a HUGE fan of Jimmy. I wouldn't have written this if I had never cared about him.
That's understandable if you never knew that what existed before strong governments was essentially warlords. And that warlord = triumph of private interests.
Everything from Attila the Hun to the 30 Years War, 1,200 years in between, was all assholes doing what assholes do when there are no governments.
On the other hand, the Paris Commune's destruction happens when governments get too strong.
This was a good response
Most people disagreed with me, but they were cool about it and, most importantly, they knew exactly why they disagreed with me.
And that's very cool.
So how is any of this untrue?
"The war on Gaza, backed by the West, is a demonstration that the West is willing to cross all lines. That it will discard any nuance of humanity. That it is willing to commit genocide" -- Moon of Alabama