"The Go-To Place for Progressives"

Hello, all--
Here I am, yet another refugee from that orange place. And I know that this diary would get me hide-rated, timed-out, or banished from over there, so here goes.

A couple of days ago, I received a fund-raising letter from Daily Kos, really two, but I'll just deal with the second. I was one of those people who early on bought a lifetime subscription and from time to time I have contributed a bit more. In the last two weeks, as a Bernie supporter, I have learned more than maybe I ever really wanted to know about how the orange place is moderated, starting when I was hide-rated by a truly obnoxious Clinton supporter. I had defended another commenter when the Clinton supporter trashed the writer. So I have been following my way through the Bernie groups (thanks, elenacarlena!) and started watching the mail about people who were being disciplined (and I mean it both literally and in a Foucaldian sense). I am appalled. I have been itching to write a diary about Clinton and neoliberalism and realize that alone would probably do me in. So while I'm learning about all this, I get an email asking me for money AND calling the orange place the "go-to place for progressives." Are you kidding me???

Letter 2 announces that the orange place has "a huge platform from which to organize progressives." I can't imagine what in the world that sentence means in the current world of the orange place. Progressives who don't care about the 90% of the population who won't prosper with (more) neoliberal policies? Progressives who think bigtime corporate fundraising is just the thing? Progressives who think politics should be accomplished through triangulation? What?

What bothers me the most about this "innocent" fundraising letter for the orange place is that many people--including some of those who support Bernie--won't recognize the changes at the orange place that have made is absolutely incompatible with progressives. Why in the world are they using the word progressive when Third Way Democrats would have been much, much more honest.

Thanks, I needed to rant. This is a first post for me over here, so be gentle.
cinnamon

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Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

This place is much kinder and more gentle than that other place could even wish to be...

Welcome on over to the other side...

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
BenFranklin99's picture

I've progressed from censored multiple times to timed-out number 1. My last 5 posts over "there" were just to advertise this place as the promised land for Progressives online. After my time-out is over, that's what I will do again, til time-out for 30 days.

I'm a sailor, and I've been through this online regarding sailing. I pointed out obvious lies from a boatbuilder who advertised on the website, and Cruiser's Forum kicked me out. I moved to an anti-Cruiser's Forum website, Multihulls3us.com, which turned out to be much better.

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Feel the Bern!

Martha Pearce-Smith's picture

You're among friends... Smile

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Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.

First Nations News

Miep's picture

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

FreakFlagFly's picture

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SnappleBC's picture

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

Peter knew in 1973 we were going to destroy ourselves.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5NOV0-EH0c

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"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho

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throwing rocks is what I DO. How else do you think I got banned years and years ago?

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Bollox Ref's picture

No worries in these parts.

And I should note that both emails are utter bollocks.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

JekyllnHyde's picture

... it simply means this = "go-to place for hopeless centrists, devoid of any real political beliefs."

I cannot tell you the number of times I have read statements like, "I am so far to the left of [fill in the blanks]..." that it makes me want to throw up. Having been on DK (literally) from the beginning in 2002 - and I have a much-better-than-average memory - I always ask myself if I recall this person ever writing something that might even hint at their avowed leftism. Frequently, nothing can be found to back up that assertion.

Here's my assessment of much of DK, a graphic I created after another such silly assertion.

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A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

Jane Hamsher used to refer to centrist institutions that represented themselves as "progressive" or "liberal" as "The Veal Pen." Their purpose is to corral progressives and leftists in a safe, confined space where they can't grow strong or mature.

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Please help support caucus99percent!

Bollox Ref's picture

Constantly complained about FDL on DKos.

Embedded shills.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Cassiodorus's picture

who will blame Ralph Nader for everything up to and including bad breath and the gout.

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"there's something so especially sadistic about waving the flag of a country that you're actively destroying" -- Aaron Mate

until it died. Because she was still mad Hillary lost in 2008. Think about that. No, don't. You'll get an ice cream headache.

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elenacarlena's picture

I had not heard of Jane Hamsher or this argument. I'm going to go learn about her now! This is exactly the kind of information I joined DKos for back in the day.

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elenacarlena's picture

and she's a film producer. Wiki says she made the argument about the veal pen during the Obamacare negotiations when, in order to get it passed, they included language barring the use of funds for abortion, and strong-armed PP and NARAL into remaining silent about that.

I've been wondering why so many states succeed in passing so many anti-abortion laws with so little pushback. Is this still going on? If so, what is the interest of centrist Dems in supporting anti-abortion laws?

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The Daily Kos and, more importantly, the Democratic party are the enemy of progressives. What is surprising is their unwillingness to admit it.

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BenFranklin99's picture

The Progressive Party.

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Feel the Bern!

B. Joe King's picture

to the cool kids table...

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Gold is the wealth of kings; silver is the wealth of commoners; barter is the wealth of peasants; and debt is the wealth of slaves.

TheJerry's picture

TOP: Go-To-Place for Progressives
MSNBC: Go-To-Place for Politics

Both have recently bent seriously backwards and to the right.

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____________________________________________________________________________
"I'm not interested in preserving the status quo; I want to overthrow it. "
-Niccolo Machiavelli

"Sorry Hillary"
-TheJerry

ValleyForger's picture

Sad, but not surprising for a sellout. I had occasion to delve into the inner workings of a sham conservative 501(c)3 operation. It involved non-stop fundraising for the purpose of countering hyped crisis after crisis. Of the millions raised for the cause, the actual work product was basically a series of press releases. Everything else was absorbed into the owners' pocket in the form of overhead expenses paid to service companies or property management companies owned by the owner of the 501(c)3. Expenses such as rent, mailing services, payment for mailing lists, professional consulting fees, etc, ate up almost all of the donations. Not that there was any accountability to the donors whatsoever. The overhead expenses were all created for the benefit of the IRS, as the owner of that particular advocacy group had once spent six months in Federal prison for tax evasion.

Sounds like Moulitas is looking to milk his flock for all they are worth, as would any good four-flushing charlatan.

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cinnamon68's picture

ValleyForger--
Thanks for that comment. It does remind me of that kind of fundraising and it comes all the time from DK--send us some money to support the daily emails, send us some money to upgrade our servers, send us some money so we can buy more servers. Given the clunkiness of DK5, I really do wonder what they're doing with the money. And it's all in crisis mode . . . if we don't ante up, life as we know it will be gone.

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cinnamon68

elenacarlena's picture

the switch to DK5. I told them in no uncertain terms that I hated DK5. if they think I'd facilitate it, they're dreaming. Of course with the switch to centrist echo chamber, I would have been extremely pissed now had I donated then!

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Miep's picture

There are laws about fundraising when you are not a non-prof, even on the Internet. I wonder what bank account the donations go into, what organization and how it's organized.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

ValleyForger's picture

A For Profit operation doesn't even have to pretend to be providing a public service. Moulitas can just pocket the money. Kind of like Exxon asking you to make a donation so they can provide you with a more efficient gas pump.

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Miep's picture

Yup pretty much.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

Tommymac's picture

just unsubscibing.

Yahoo filters them as spam every few weeks or so regardless - but hopefully my other mail providers will be adding TOP email addresses to their global spam lists soon...

the more who report TOP emails officiallly as spam to their isp/mail providers through their browsers the greater the likelihood that will happen.

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FEEL THE BERN: "But such is the irresistible nature of truth, that all it asks, and all it wants, is the liberty of appearing." - Thomas Paine
"Here I Stand, I can do no other." - Attributed to Martin Luther, 1521

Have no worries.

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NCTim's picture

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

janis b's picture

It's a prime example of your delightful, multi-layered offerings.

I know what I'll be listening to tonight.

Wishing you and sweetie all that is possible.

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NCTim's picture

I like to keep people on their toes. Do they celebrate April Fools in your time zone?

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

mimi's picture

Fourth Estate or Mouthpiece? A Formal Model of Media, Protest and Government Repression

New media dramatically increases citizens’ access to information and decreases governments’ ability to control the flow of communication. Although human rights NGOs have advocated that access to independent news media will improve government respect for human rights, recent empirical studies have shown this is not always the case.

We posit that media independence and the presence or absence of democratic characteristics, in particular political competition, have substantial effects on government repression because these factors determine the degree to which the government is vulnerable to public pressures. The model developed here includes three equations that encompass the impact of interaction between and among the news media, citizens and government.

The first equation specifies the influences on the news media’s decision whether to perform a ‘watchdog’ role regarding government repression.

The second equation represents public reaction to the news media’s coverage of government repression, i.e., protest. Here access to news media via traditional and new media is an important factor.

The third equation represents government repression.

Solutions to the system of equations are derived for four scenarios:
1. democracy and media independence are both present,
2. democracy is present but media independence is absent,
3. democracy is absent (autocracy) and media independence is present, and
4. democracy is absent (autocracy) and media independence is absent.

We then consider interesting properties of the anticipated behavior from the government, media and general public through case illustrations for the Netherlands and Myanmar/Burma.

Are we in the category number 4?

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Lookout's picture

It is nice to be able to freely express yourself. Have at it. No flaming trolls. Mainly supportive folks all trying our best to keep this movement rolling forward. Keep on awalkin' and keep on atalkin'. Let's push that boulder up the hill!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

SnappleBC's picture

DKOS is not:

"a huge platform from which to organize progressives."

As the stated site mission and his own edicts clearly indicate. It is a "huge platform to elect Democrats". You can't have it both ways... either you're policy based or you're partisan.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

A huge platform to raise money for another bike for Markos. Oh and a Tesla.

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NCTim's picture

either you're policy based or you're partisan.

It's the issues, not a team sport.

Friday Open Thread with a call for community action.

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The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -

AreJay's picture

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Bluesee's picture

...verry interesting...

I remember just last week when I bought steer manure for my garden. I told the clerk that I don't know why I'm paying for this when I could get it for free at work.

Yeah, the description rings very true. Foucauldian, it is!

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Bernie is a win-win.

elenacarlena's picture

May I borrow your euphemism?

Did the clerk laugh?

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Bluesee's picture

She had the good grace to humor me.

Not sure, isn't it kind of copywrited since its on the internet?

Happy 4/1. Smile

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Bernie is a win-win.

A so-called progressive attacked Bernie in one of my posts for boing a conscientious objector during Vietnam. I was cool did not call him a fucking pig, but it shows you what Hillary is creating among some who called themselves progressives.

The word is being drained of content.

Glad to see you here.

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a necessary part of the president's job, and that the first black president would not kill innocent brown people if it wasn't necessary.

I can't believe what the Democratic party has become.

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Shahryar's picture

He has to! She has to! That's the way of the world!

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mimi's picture

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I was shocked. Maybe I'll make a diary out of it, because I am not the best searcher on that site and it was probably about a year or so ago.

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mimi's picture

over there a lot and never find what I was looking for. Not worth the trouble. Have a nice day and enjoy freedom from digging. Smile

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didn't know what they were doing.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

"Our leaders are the finest men
And we elect 'em again and again
That's what I learned in school today
That's what I learned in school."

(Pete Seeger song...at least, I heard it from him.)

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SnappleBC's picture

That having an oligarchy is a good thing because "we the people" are too stupid to govern ourselves. In fact that's why the founding fathers wrote the constitution the way that they did.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

If you must go, please either use Firefox or Chrome, and install an Ad Blocker, like uBlock Origin or AdBlock Plus when you visit there. Not only will it make that horribly slow site much faster, but it will block the ads, thus preventing TOP from getting ad revenue.

I've pretty much weened myself off of it. That place is a Republican-lite quagmire.

Thanks!

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Ajaradom's picture

Just added the chrome adblocker plus --- holy cow what a difference an ad blocker can make. Really appreciate this helpful suggestion Smile

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It's a win-win at TOS. Speeds it up significantly, and doesn't put money in kos' pocket! Smile

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Bluesee's picture

...I totally agree. Smile

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Bernie is a win-win.

dervish's picture

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

dervish's picture

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

elenacarlena's picture

I've been thinking it's fair to "pay" for the site by viewing ads, but now my support is much less enthusiastic, to say the least.

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Haikukitty's picture

Try it - you'll like it! Biggrin

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elenacarlena's picture

I had been told that before and tried it out. IE is much faster on my computer. I still have both, and plan to keep both on my computer, but I almost always use IE.

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sojourns's picture

I don't leave home without it. You gave me an idea. I'm gonna visit GOS using the name AdBlockerPlus

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

about paying for an ad-free experience. You've just explained it.

Deny the revenue! Sounds like a hashtag to me.

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

PastorAgnostic's picture

A. When changing your car's oil, do you keep the radio on?

B. Have you ever felt that alien beings did weird experiments on you at night, only to wake up and find really bizarre sutures on your body?

C. If birds flock, and dogs pack, what do Sarah Palin fans do?

D. Considering that one teaspoon of the matter making up a neutron star weighs more than earth's moon, is it really worth it to save all those great Ella albums?

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Miep's picture

A. I should remember radio when prying off those bicycle tire rims.

B. No, but I've been having some really embarrassing dreams about blogs lately. And then there were those ant stings I can't remember.

C. Crash snowmobiles into the Iditarod.

D. I would rather devote myself to finding the logical fallacy in this question. It would take up less space.

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Stay on track. Stay in lane. Don't throw rocks.

elenacarlena's picture

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Here you will find neither flags nor HRs.

And about Boss Markos' begging letters? dkos is progressive the way the boss' candidate is progressive--by self-proclamation. Proclamation is a tool of the boss class and the political royalty class. Also demagogues and fictional characters.

"When I use a word," Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, "it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less." --Through the Looking Glass

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"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti

when someone announces about how mad they are because they got a hide-rate/flag on DKos.

I can't even count the number of hide-rates/flags I've gotten over the past decade on the GOS.
Dozens? Hundreds? I have no idea. I really don't.

All I can say is, "If you haven't gotten a few hide-rates/flags, then either 1) you haven't spoken your mind enough, or 2) you don't have anything to say worth mentioning."

I'm not knocking you at all. I'm just amused is all.
So you got a hide-rate. Good.

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That's what I prefer to call them. He didn't get hide rated, he got Flag Nazi'd.

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sojourns's picture

The Flag Monkeys. The Nattering Nabobs of Nonsense. I bet the flag junkies are also the leaders of their home owners association. Make damn sure your mailbox is paint the right color or else.

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"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage

dervish's picture

Usually you have to make quite a few HRd comments to get sanctioned, but it's so touchy over there now that bans etc are flying pretty easily.

Doesn't matter, if enough of us come over here, we won't miss much.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

dervish's picture

I don't usually like to quote HuffPo, but they have an article that says that Hillary's minority support has collapsed.

I hope it sticks.

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"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

TheOtherMaven's picture

as the voters learn/realize just what they voted for.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Alison Wunderland's picture

Welcome to caucus99percent, cinnamon68

You'll like here. The nuts all have keys.

And the asylum is Ours! OURS! Yee Haa!

Oh, goody, time to take my meds again.

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cinnamon68's picture

I don't mean to say that I'm so delicate that I can't take an HR. It's only because in my younger days of attempting to "reform" the Democratic Party that it felt oh so familiar. If I'll just stay in and act nice and our day will come. I had stayed out of the primary fights at the orange place because it felt like those old days. But this time, there was a real viable candidate and many, many people were realizing that we can't keep electing the same DLC types. Wow! So I began thinking it was time to start speaking again. I am just beside myself when the nitwits show up in diaries such as the teacher living in his car, trying to take care of his ex- and hijack the comments for HRC.

Many thanks for the welcomes here. It feels great to be here.

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cinnamon68

Bluesee's picture

Smile

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Bernie is a win-win.

MsGrin's picture

Feels good here, yes?

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'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member

pfiore8's picture

Mar 31 (1 day ago)

to campaigns
Sorry, but I can't support Daily Kos as it bans progressives for speaking about candidates' records and fitness for office. Censorship, and don't confuse it with freedom of speech, is NOT a progressive value.

Sincerely,
pfiore8

the highlighted portion is to point out that our own Shahryar is the one who made that great distinction: Shah if your reading, I put it to good use, no?

glad you found your way here.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Alison Wunderland's picture

It's only 2400~ words so far but I think I can keep it under 40K if I don't stray off the storyline too much.

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pfiore8's picture

will you post it here in a serial form?

that'd be cool.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

Alison Wunderland's picture

It's not a flaky story. ha ha.

Installments might have more effect than dropping the whole story all at once. Good idea, pf.

I can't picture how far down a page 2400 words would fall.

I hate homonyms. No, that's not true. I love homonyms. I just can't spell them properly anymore.

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Alison Wunderland's picture

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elenacarlena's picture

a warm welcome! Of course, I knew you would. Glad I could help. There are still Berners over at TOP, and it's much easier to take when we stick together behind the scenes over there.

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elenacarlena's picture

I wonder if it's old boilerplate that nobody changed yet. I wonder if they will change it eventually. It is pretty much a lie now. Unless progressive=centrist.

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darkmatter's picture

...of the number of times over the years when someone (usually a relative newcomer) at DK would say, "but this is supposed to be a progressive website!" and the standard, official response always was (and still is), "this website is about electing Democrats." It is very telling that they now want to conceal or obscure that partisan orientation. Perhaps it's a sign of cognitive dissonance.

As the meaning of "Democrat" has drifted over the years, we end up where we're at now, with a party leadership that seems to have no moral compass or goal other than winning and getting campaign money and lucrative speaking/consulting gigs when the show's over.

The "go to" place for progressives? It is to laugh.

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elenacarlena's picture

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I'm glad you wrote this. And I have some more stuff I would like to get off my chests. Kos decided that Facebook and Twitter was where its at so topics that did well (at least were shared well) became more important than any post or any topic that did not share well. I thought that was a real blow in the sense that the larger world was not exactly progressive.

Second Kos raises money but we have no accounting no transparency at all with what he does with the money. We can see results like dKos5 but I have no idea if the writers get paid or if they are allowed to be union. I have no idea how much the overhead of servers and programmers cost. I don't have a clue as to advertising revenue. And he doesn't have to tell us but it might make a difference in my willingness to cough up money.

Third they have authored some god awful petitions. Petitions guarantee not to do any damn thing at all.

My rants for the day.

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glitterscale