War with Iran just started

war.PNG

I'm going to update this essay later. This should get things rolling for now.

To convey a sense of Soleimani’s significance, it would be as if, during the Iraq war, the ayatollah had ordered the assassination of Gen. David Petraeus, Gen. Jim Mattis, the head of Special Operations Command, and the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff.* Soleimani’s responsibilities corresponded with all four of these roles. Even then, the analogy falls short because, among Shi’ite Muslims across the region, Soleimani also exuded the charisma of a religious icon, a holy warrior.

For the past 20 years, he had been the architect of Iran’s expansionist foreign policy, running subversive operations and controlling Shi’ite militias in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Gaza, and Afghanistan. In the months after the Sept. 11 attacks, he shared intelligence about al-Qaida and the Taliban with U.S. officials, until President George W. Bush declared Iran to be part of the “axis of evil.” In the fight against ISIS, his militias were crucial in forcing the group’s fighters out of Iraq. But he was also responsible for the deaths of hundreds of U.S. troops during the Iraq insurgency. On Thursday night, the Pentagon justified its action by claiming that he was about to launch an offensive against American embassies and armed forces throughout the region.

Even if that is true, killing him doesn’t make much strategic sense. As important as he was, his loyal and capable lieutenants are still capable of executing the missions.

Let's not overlook the guy who was killed alongside him.

He was credited with being a key leader in the Shia militias, the Popular Mobilisation Forces, known as the Hashed (al-Shaabi), employed as shock troops in the bloody fight against Islamic State in Iraq. Although he worked under Faleh al-Fayyadh, Iraq’s national security adviser, Muhandis was widely recognised as the Hashed’s real leader.

And equally, if not more, important was his involvement in founding and leading the Kata’ib Hezbollah militia, part of the Hashed.

This changes everything!

Any hope of salvaging the situation in Iraq is sunk. I don't see how the Iraqi government will not demand that we leave.
This will make our occupation in Syria increasingly untenable.

I don't see how Iran cannot strike back at us, probably both directly and with proxies. This will cause Trump to lash out disproportionately again, and escalate the situation.

Outside of Israel and the Saudis, I don't see us having any allies in this fight.

Domestically this changes the political conversation. Any talk of Trump not being keen on war will now end. Republicans will go back to calling Democrats Blame-America-First-Traitors.

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Wally's picture

Call your representative and Senators asap to demand an end to Trump's warmongering.

https://www.contactingcongress.org/

U.S. Capitol Switchboard at (202) 224-312

Congress must act now and demand a halt to this violence before this escalates any further.

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fakenews's picture

@Wally Congress, through its actions in the past has demonstrated that they don't want ANY hand in voting for or against foreign entanglements. Call your congressman or your senator, all you'll get from them is a sound bite on the MSM saying just exactly how all this was NOT their fault. It's out of control because your representatives DON'T represent you, all they represent is their next election.

Peace
FN

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16 users have voted.

"Democracy is technique and the ability of power not to be understood as oppressor. Capitalism is the boss and democracy is its spokesperson." Peace - FN

Wally's picture

@fakenews

all they represent is their next election.

All the more reason to call and make them realize they won't get re-elected if they want to keep being warmongers. I'd say if we don't call in sufficient numbers, it's on us.

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8 users have voted.

@Wally Is it still "all on us" then? I have one friend who constantly tells me I need to "shout from the rooftops" all of my screaming about what is really happening in this country, but what if NO ONE is there to hear it? What if that is once again ignored? Then what? Is that my own fault for not screaming from the right rooftop? And which rooftop would be the right one?

If we had any true control over what our "representatives" really do we would not be where we are today. We can quibble all we want over what we "should do" but when that changes nothing then what?

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6 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

CB's picture

U.S. Will Come To Regret Its Assassination of Qassim Soleimani

Today the U.S. declared war on Iran and Iraq.

War is what it will get.

Earlier today a U.S. drone or helicopter killed Major General Qassim Soleimani, the famous commander of the Iranian Quds ('Jerusalem') force, while he left the airport of Baghdad where he had just arrived. He had planned to attend the funeral of the 31 Iraqi soldiers the U.S. had killed on December 29 at the Syrian-Iraqi border near Al-Qaim.
...
The U.S. created two martyrs who will now become the models and idols for tens of millions of youth in the Middle East.
...
Soleimani will be replaced by Brigadier General Ismail Ghani, a veteran of the Iran-Iraq war who has for decades been active in the Quds Force and has fought against ISIS in Syria. He is an officer of equal stature and capability.

...

All I can add here is - "sow the wind and reap the whirlwind"

There will be an asymmetrical war in response and the US has a buffoon as Commander Twitter in Chief.

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wendy davis's picture

news and quotes on this insanity, but using far different sources. i hope it's not going to be stepping on your toes, gjonsit.

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@wendy davis
then please do post away.
We need more diversity of viewpoint.
I'm no censor.

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wendy davis's picture

@gjohnsit

most of my sources come from very different points of view, save for the Altantic one i'd used in the way of satire, which mirror's Slate. i had brought some bits of bernhard's (MoA) that CB's brought to your thread.

so yes, on balance i'd have to reckon that diverse views matter; thanks.

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edg's picture

@wendy davis

I wish others had the same respect for my essays. It seems like when I publish one, another user posts a highly similar one not long after.

I enjoy your essays. Keep up the good work, Wendy.

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wendy davis's picture

@edg

happening on one of your 'war with iran' posts, so i thought it might be polite of me to ask.
i will say that although i hadn't had the time to click in, i might have suggested 'war ON iran' instead. ; )

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wendy davis's picture

@edg

the penny finally drops. if i'd done the same to you, i sincerely apologize. i do get tunnel vision, and cross-posting via ancient firefoxes still with 'easy copy' html code is a bitch, especially anything with tweets, as in: the café only requires urls, this site requires embed codes, etc. meaning: it gets pretty complicated.

and i usually start composing not long after fist light, and try to check into c99% now and again to make sure no one else has blogged on the same subject. but sometimes,i forget to so so, and even if i've spent hours composing, i may press Publish nonetheless. again, if i've stepped on your toes, i apologize, and will ask in advance if i'd be doing so.

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CB's picture

Iraqi PM tells military to prepare for war
...
As for the US move, at this point it looks like someone has lost their minds. The military command has kept Trump from some crazy things in the past, but appears to have stood down.

The justification for the assassination, a cheap con as a “defensive act”, left out the long history of the US using proxy terrorists in Iraq, knowing full well that would draw in Iranian military support as Tehran correctly view that a US takeover of Iraq was an overt threat against Iran.

If anyone had a justification to attack “threatening forces” it is Iraq and Iran. So we must ask who was responsible for creating that situation, and why. Was it done as the US failure to Balkanize Syria spawned a plan to do so in Iraq as a booby prize?

Are we to believe that Trump dreamed this up, when it is on the record that he cannot even understand basic briefings, and briefers are instructed to use short sentences and no big words?
...
Sadr sent his condolences to the Iranian nation and Leader of the Islamic Revolution Ayatollah Seyyed Ali Khamanei.
...
“As the patron of the patriotic Iraqi resistance I give the order for all mujahideen, specially the Mehdi Army, Promised Day Brigade, and all patriotic and disciplined groups to be ready to protect Iraq,” he said in a statement.

He also called on all sides to behave with “wisdom and shrewdness.”
...
Qais al-Khazali, the leader of Iraq’s Asa’ib Ahl al-Haq movement, ordered his fighters to be on high alert and said the strike would spell the end of the US military presence in Iraq.

“All fighters should be on high alert for upcoming battle and great victory. The price for the blood for the martyred commander Abu Mahdi al-Muhandis is the complete end to American military presence in Iraq,” local TV channel al-Ahd quoted Khazali as saying.
...

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@CB

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Pricknick's picture

Soleimani was a murderer, responsible for the deaths of thousands, including hundreds of Americans. But this reckless move escalates the situation with Iran and increases the likelihood of more deaths and new Middle East conflict. Our priority must be to avoid another costly war.

Elizabeth Warren

So it was a reckless move but she approves of the murder?

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

Wally's picture

@Pricknick

[video:https://youtu.be/Yw7MkaDelRI]

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@Pricknick
She said that she wouldn't mourn over his death.
Neither will I.

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Pricknick's picture

@gjohnsit
that we can let a prior, mass murdering president live peacefully among us is what bothers me.
This country abounds in double standards.

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28 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

@Pricknick
but they've been normalized over the last 20 years.
Like torture and a complete destruction of the 4th Amendment.

It's inevitable that an assassination would lead us to war.
This war will likely go in a similar way to Iraq, in that we'll win up front but lose in the long run.

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@gjohnsit Except that we didn't get Castro. And no one really cares about a "rule" that says assassinations of other countries leaders are illegal. We also tried to get Hitler and didn't get that done either.

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CB's picture

@Pricknick or a liar or both.

The US attacked Iraq unprovoked based on outright lies and deception. This invasion violated the UN Charter and international humanitarian law. As such the US is guilty of an international war crime and everything that happens subsequent to that becomes a direct responsibility of the US.

The US used napalm, white phosphorus, cluster bombs and depleted uranium that killed hundreds of thousands, mostly civilians and wounded and maimed untold hundreds of thousands more. Civilian infrastructure such as sanitation, water supplies and food production/storage facilities were directly targeted and destroyed and directly impacted the lives of children and women. US soldiers along with paid mercenaries maimed, raped, killed and plundered with little restrain.

Nuremberg principles
Principle VI

The crimes hereinafter set out are punishable as crimes under international law:

(a) Crimes against peace:

(i) Planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression or a war in violation of international treaties, agreements or assurances;

(ii) Participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the acts mentioned under (i).

(b) War crimes:

Violations of the laws or customs of war which include, but are not limited to, murder, ill-treatment or deportation to slave labor or for any other purpose of civilian population of or in occupied territory; murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the Seas, killing of hostages, plunder of public or private property, wanton destruction of cities, towns, or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

(c) Crimes against humanity:

Murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation and other inhumane acts done against any civilian population, or persecutions on political, racial, or religious grounds, when such acts are done or such persecutions are carried on in execution of or in connection with any crime against peace or any war crime.

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@Pricknick

Does Warren not know that/

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"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin

Bob In Portland's picture

The military industrial complex declared war. Trump, like Presidents before him, is merely a prop. The disaster that is about to unfold will be left at his feet.

Again, this should not be considered an excuse or praise for the despicable sociopath in the White House. I am merely restating the chain of command that exists in the US.

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ggersh's picture

@Bob In Portland and we are attacking Iran cuz?

https://www.zerohedge.com/geopolitical/trump-jabs-dems-10-word-tweet-ira...

"General Qassem Soleimani has killed or badly wounded thousands of Americans over an extended period of time, and was plotting to kill many more... but got caught!

He was directly and indirectly responsible for the death of millions of people, including the recent large number of PROTESTERS killed in Iran itself.

While Iran will never be able to properly admit it, Soleimani was both hated and feared within the country. They are not nearly as saddened as the leaders will let the outside world believe. He should have been taken out many years ago!"

So even if right how does that allow for ameriKa to
assassinate him?

Having tweeted a patriotic US flag last night following the actions to assassinate Soleimani...

pic.twitter.com/VXeKiVzpTf
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 3, 2020

President Trump's first direct tweet (he has retweeted numerous comments from others) since the attack is a clear jab at the Democrats over their actions (or lack of them) on Iran's death-dealers...

"Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation!"

Iran never won a war, but never lost a negotiation!
— Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) January 3, 2020

dear mr. tRumpolini, name one war you've won, better yet name
one negotiation you've won. Yes your base will love you for
this because that's what people with TDS do.

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13 users have voted.

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

@ggersh
It had a couple empires, I might add.
Trump doesn't seem to realize this.
I hope he enjoys acting tough. It won't last.
This isn't the WWE.

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edg's picture

@ggersh

TDS isn't a reference to Trump's base. It stands for Trump Derangement Syndrome and is used to refer to people that irrationally hate Trump and call him names like tRumpolini.

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@edg TDS could just as easily be used to describe the mindless mindset of the Trump cultists, now having taken over the GOP, who consider anything he does however irrational and reckless as by definition good as it comes from their fearless leader.

Might even be more aptly applied to these pod people cultists rather than his opponents as there is nothing irrational about hating a hateful irrational person wielding enormous power like Trump.

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edg's picture

@wokkamile

It's re-purposing of ODS - Obama Derangement Syndrome, which was coined by Politico in December 2008 to describe conservatives that wouldn't believe Obama was born in the US.

The use of TDS is well-established for describing liberals that don't believe Trump was elected president or that believe that he is somehow Putin's puppet.

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@edg that technical point, as I said, especially also on the Putin Puppet angle. But crazy radical rule-breaker that I am, I think it's more than apt to turn the phrase around and re-purpose it again to apply the derangement syndrome to Trump zombie supporters.

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Jen's picture

@edg @edg May I suggest PDS - President Derangement Syndrome. Both groups would be included. The ones who had ODS are now the same ones that think the orange baboon can do no wrong. The ones that thought Obomber could do no wrong are now the ones with TDS. So, they just trade places according to who the president is. And they're all crazier than a sh*thouse rat.

Edit: Also - Pretty Damn Stupid.

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Is it great yet?

edg's picture

@Jen

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ggersh's picture

@edg of having TDS, where their furhrer can do no wrong

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6 users have voted.

I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish

"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"

Heard from Margaret Kimberley

CB's picture

@Bob In Portland
Trump doesn't have the detailed knowledge and understanding of the situation in the Middle East nor does he have the intelligence and skill set to be "Commander in Chief" in a time of war. He is being used like a trained seal much like Dubya was by the hidden war mongers behind the throne.

"My fellow Americans: Major combat operations in Iraq have ended. In the battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." - George W. Bush 2003

"There are some who feel like - that the conditions are such that they can attack us there. My answer is, bring 'em on! We've got the force necessary." - George W. Bush 2008

Trump comes across with his tweets like a 13 year old boy having a schoolyard fight with another kid. This is going to get a lot of Americans killed - there's little chance of turning back.

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Roy Blakeley's picture

@CB he has freedom to run around and bark and defecate in inappropriate places. This idiocy is on him. The MIC wants enough conflict to support an absurd military budget that allows it to make huge amounts of money, but the consequences of a war with Iran could be collapse of the petrodollar and a consolidation of a non US-centric world economy.

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@Roy Blakeley @Roy Blakeley n/t

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

edg's picture

@Roy Blakeley

The MIC appears to know just how much war to have to maximize profits without it escalating into uncontrollable chaos or full-scale war like WW2 that might cause their sons to be drafted. Think 28 years of low-level conflict in Iraq with a couple of periods of brief high intensity fighting. Think 17 years in Afghanistan. 8 years in Syria. I do believe they have perfected the concept of permanent war.

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@Bob In Portland Against Trump.

Trump Did not declare war and by the authority of the AUMF, Trump and the military have the right to use military force in Iraq.

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@Bob In Portland both did. The MIC for its usual reasons, and Trump to a) get impeachment off people's minds, and b) for re-elect purposes as he hopes it would cause USians to rally around the flag come November.

Remember, the US attacking Iran is what Trump said in a 2011 tweet that Obama would do in order to enhance his re-elect prospects.

Donald always was reliably good at showing his thinking through projection.

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Wally's picture

Go figure that The Rising gets right on it:

[video:https://youtu.be/nwQPfBfo8ic]

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CB's picture

@Wally
in the Middle East he may not be able to control.

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Wally's picture

@CB

. . . to his temporary advantage.

Don't be surprised when most Americans rally around the flag especially if they feel threatened.

Only Bernie has any chance at all of stopping the madness. Not a great chance but I'll opt for the only chance and a chance that may well be the best chance of our lifetimes.

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@Wally

Don't be surprised when most Americans rally around the flag especially if they feel threatened.

Even 10 years ago it would be a fairly safe bet.
But now?? I'd say that it's a 50-50 shot.

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12 users have voted.

@gjohnsit long US wars in the ME lately. Most folks are probably sick of it, which is why Trump's tacking to the left on these costly wars in the 2016 election got him so much traction against the hawkish Hillary.

But it's entirely reasonable to suggest Trump might calculate differently. And he has so few cards to play, and the "national security threat" card has worked well in the past.

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Wally's picture

@gjohnsit

How will Iran retaliate?

Before the SuperBowl? Patriotism feeding frenzy.

Before November? Trump election assured.

Obviously, the Iranians are consulting with the Russians and the Chinese at this point.

Ugh. If all this shit doesn't convince folks Bernie is our only hope, fuhgetaboutid.

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edg's picture

@gjohnsit

They've been busily framing for many years -- Iran is the root of all problems in the Middle East. Now comes marketing -- defeating Iran will solve all problems in the Middle East.

The MSM will jump on the bandwagon. Warmongers on social media will push it to their followers. Grandma on Facebook will share anti-Iran posts. Those that disagree will be branded as traitors.

Iran and its proxies will fight back against the incremental escalations done by the US, and that will justify more escalation, until we're at a slow boil but never a full conflagration. Voila! One more permanent war.

I hope you are right that it won't work this time.

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snoopydawg's picture

Yeah not so much.

Hundreds of thousands of Iranians flooded the streets of Tehran and other cities across the country Friday to condemn the U.S. assassination of military leader Qassem Soleimani, discrediting Secretary of State Mike Pompeo's prediction that the people of Iran would "view the American action last night as giving them freedom."

Let us not forget that the house stripped out the amendment that would have blocked Trump from starting war with Iran. This was just one of the many gifts Nancy gave to Trump in the NDAA. Nice job, Nance.

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28 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg
I think he's just a lying warmonger.
But I could be wrong.

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12 users have voted.

@gjohnsit just regurgitates that idiocy for the American audience, and it works every GD time. He's a lying toad just like all the rest of these gas bags although he's a good Christo-fascist as well and there is that whole Rapture thingy to get started on. War with Iran, what could possibly go wrong?

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12 users have voted.

Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur

edg's picture

@snoopydawg

Proclaiming how happy and excited Middle Easterners were that the evil Soleimani was blown up. An example was the scores of jubilant people in Tahrir Square in Baghdad. Score equals 20, so plural means there were at least 40. Yuge!

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snoopydawg's picture

According to my best Southwest Asia intel sources, “Israel gave the US the coordinates for the assassination of Qasem Soleimani as they wanted to avoid the repercussions of taking the assassination upon themselves.”

It does not matter that Trump and the Deep State are at war.

One of the very few geopolitical obsessions that unite them is non-stop confrontation with Iran – qualified by the Pentagon as one of the five top threats against the US, almost at the level of Russia and China.

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19 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg
It just can't be proven is all.

Israel will suffer consequences too, but that's what Netanyahu is counting on.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

@gjohnsit

That sonofabitch is the primary reason why there can be no prospect of peace in the Middle East.

There are probably worse than he in the pipeline, but if he's sent to the slammer for corruption, there's a very slim chance that somebody half-decent will replace him.

Stop the world, I want to get off....

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25 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

edg's picture

@gjohnsit

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CB's picture

@edg
War is not the time to change horses.

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@CB Trump's re-election and non-prosecution, he might be thinking.

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CB's picture

@snoopydawg
Trump had no other choice than to own it.
Ted Cruz: "Justice for Israel overdue."

Netanyahu, Pompeo push forward with US-Israel defense pact
DECEMBER 6, 2019
...
“The meeting with Pompeo was critical for Israeli security,” Netanyahu said of the discussion that took an hour and 45 minutes on Wednesday. “We agreed to promote a defense pact.”
...
However, Netanyahu said “We will do it with full cooperation with the IDF and security forces and ensure total freedom of action for the US and the IDF.”

Relevant officials in Israel and the US have reviewed a draft of the agreement, which was originally proposed by the Jewish Institute for National Security of America.

“This is one of our important goals for the coming months and we decided to speed up the work on it,” he said.
...
Netanyahu and Pompeo also discussed Iran, with the prime minister focusing on the importance of continuing to pressure Tehran
...

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snoopydawg's picture

@CB

However, Netanyahu said “We will do it with full cooperation with the IDF and security forces and ensure total freedom of action for the US and the IDF.”

When was the last time the IDF had skin in our wars? Seems that Israel loves to send our men and women off to war. His men and women? Not so much.

Graham and others are pushing for a defense agreement with Israel. So if Israel does attack Iran and they respond we are on the hook to come to Israel's defense. We probably would have anyway, but this cements it.

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13 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

"Iran will simply continue to do what it has always done, in Afghanistan, Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria and Gaza, indefinitely testing the patience of its enemies, willing to spend years weaving a carpet."

Iran continues its long game

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WoodsDweller's picture

... this has officially sucked all the air out of the room. Amount of media coverage of impeachment will drop to zero. The (presumed) plan to embarrass Republican Senators with their votes is now not worth the paper it was never printed on. What was already likely to be a circus trial will now include clowns and elephants.
Who will campaign against the war? Sanders. Maybe Yang and Gabbard.

"All of that suffering, all of that death, all of those huge expenditures of money, and for what?"

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ahv4nYd6fLI]
Does low media coverage translate to low voter turnout? Will younger people turn out in force to try to stop the madness before they get drafted and sent into a meat grinder?
Cutting off oil shipments from the Persian Gulf will crater the world's economy in a matter of weeks, just before an election.
The walls were closing in, tick tick tick TICK, and now #MadPrezDonny has flipped the Monopoly board.

"Do I look like a guy with a plan? I'm like a dog chasing cars, I wouldn't know what to do with one if I caught it."

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppKkYkM0apI]

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14 users have voted.

"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

snoopydawg's picture

@WoodsDweller

It is really worth watching. And after the part about war he talked about MFA, how he will do it and how he will pay for it.

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18 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

in the DC neighborhood which
will give our arrogant rulers pause
pretty sure the think tanks have their
legislation already written in response
a conveniently timed disaster is what the
PTB are ready for. An opportunity for martial law.

Will make the patriot act look like a merry go round.

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9 users have voted.

@QMS . The oligarchs seem to be following an agenda and a timeline, and if we the people create too many obstacles or slow their progress, they will simply sweep us aside and forge onward. It's clear they're after global hegemony, total control of resources and people, and their world will not be a nice one to live in. I will be very surprised if they let Bernie win but if for some reason they do, I doubt he's going to last long. I used to consider Trump a passable placeholder until we could get our guy in, but now it's pretty clear he's been bought and was always unreliable anyway. I hope the good guys have a few tricks up their sleeves. We just have to keep trying, doing what we can for justice, for peace, for the people.

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1 user has voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

mimi's picture

fast and can't be cured.

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6 users have voted.

@mimi

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mimi's picture

@gjohnsit
that so many people get all exited and upset about it and talk in codewords, or in chinese, or in movie clips' quotes or is so snarky ways I can't figure out what is snark and what is not?

Have mercy with the old ladies. Snark is not their strong side.

Thanks. I hope you are right. I hate that disease.

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snoopydawg's picture

Things are heating up. Gee it's almost like they are trying to provoke something.

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14 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg we're the good guys

Another airstrike almost exactly 24 hours after the one that killed Soleimani hit two cars carrying Iran-backed militia north of Baghdad, killing five people, an Iraqi official said. He spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to talk to reporters. The Iran-backed Popular Mobilization Forces confirmed the strike, saying it targeted one of its medical convoys near the stadium in Taji, north of Baghdad. The group denied any of its top leaders were killed.
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Wally's picture

@gjohnsit

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15 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Wally

but Nancy let it pass after the amendment was stripped from it. Any democrat whining about what Trump has done needs to stfu if they voted for the NDAA without it in it. Especially Nancy.

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14 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg snoop.

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6 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

Wally's picture

@snoopydawg

Even if the legislation doesn't pass.

Less wiggle room for centrist Dems

Also I posted yestidy that very same Bragman tweet (the one you note below) about Pelosi previously stripping out those provisions in a response to Wokkamile: https://caucus99percent.com/comment/459059#comment-459059

Edit/add: And here's a video of demonstrators outside Schumer's residence:

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11 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Wally

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14 users have voted.

Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

@snoopydawg -- the possibility that this poor planet could descend again into total warfare. Yet these people are pushing for it. But they have their underground luxury bunkers, woo hoo. Horrible thought, regardless.

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3 users have voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

TheOtherMaven's picture

@laurel

Nasty novel about people who thought they were safe that far down in their bunkers...until they weren't. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Level_7_(novel)

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2 users have voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

dervish's picture

On who Soleimani was, by Ali Soufan.

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7 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

travelerxxx's picture

@dervish

That article had the most information on Soleimani of any I've read. Thanks.

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4 users have voted.

@dervish , will read it in the morning. But photos of him look like a very strong-willed, intelligent, centered person. Shame to lose someone like that.

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2 users have voted.

Lurking in the wings is Hillary, like some terrifying bat hanging by her feet in a cavern below the DNC. A bat with theropod instincts. -- Fred Reed https://tinyurl.com/vgvuhcl

mimi's picture

from: here

In each case, military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ.

The president is the highest military commander in chief, isn't he? If a president orders the killing of foreign commander in a country outside of the US, is that an unlawful order according with the UCMJ?

If yes, what kind of response do the military commanders and service members under the president have to not obey the unlawful order of their highest commander in chief?

It seems to me that they have none. Which is what? A CDS = constitutional derangement syndrome?

Why don't I understand this shit? Drives me nuts.

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6 users have voted.
dervish's picture

@mimi the US is utterly lawless, and has been for a long time.

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9 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

mimi's picture

@dervish
Did the President Have the Domestic Legal Authority to Kill Qassem Soleimani? - By Scott R. Anderson - Friday, January 3, 2020, 4:49 PM

I tried to read through this to the end. I can't do it.

Can somebody reformulate what is written in this article in simple language?

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3 users have voted.
dervish's picture

@mimi but the answer is "no", in any case.

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6 users have voted.

"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."

edg's picture

@mimi

No US soldier has the right to disobey an order, lawful or unlawful. Either can result in disciplinary action. The proper procedure is to escalate the dispute about an order to the immediate supervisor of the person giving the order, and then from there up the "chain of command", that is, each level of upper management.

A soldier can say, "Sir, I respectfully decline to obey that order because it is unlawful for this reason...". But they will still be relieved of their duties and possibly imprisoned. Another soldier will then almost always carry out the order. If an entire unit refuses the order, that's mutiny.

On the other hand, a soldier can refuse to obey an order to commit a crime, but even then they may be on shaky ground. The Court of Military Appeals has held that "the justification for acts done pursuant to orders does not exist if the order was of such a nature that a man of ordinary sense and understanding would know it to be illegal." Ordinary sense and understanding is, of course, open to interpretation.

I hope that helped some.

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4 users have voted.

@edg contradictory

No US soldier has the right to disobey an order, lawful or unlawful.

On the other hand, a soldier can refuse to obey an order to commit a crime, but even then they may be on shaky ground.

Weren't soldiers prosecuted successfully for murdering civilians in VN? And surely, falling back on the Nuremberg defense is no defense. So it would appear soldiers do have a right, a duty even, to disobey clearly unlawful orders. No shaky ground. The soldier, as with the VN examples, may even later be prosecuted for following such unlawful orders. And, imo, the reasonable/ordinary person standard is about as good as any.

Problems, gray areas, might arise in less egregious situations, and a soldier can't of course conjure up an unreasonable, baseless personal opinion to justify a refusal to follow orders.

My two cents.

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4 users have voted.
edg's picture

@wokkamile

Firing the rocket that killed the Iranian general wasn't unlawful as currently understood. That was Mimi's question, to which I responded. A soldier that failed to follow that order from the President of the United States would be relieved of duty and charged.

As for right vs ability, there's no contradiction there. Soldiers don't have the right to disobey an order. On the other hand, they do have the ability and obligation to not obey unlawful orders. But those orders have to be strong examples of a direct violation of the Constitution and the UCMJ and not the military member’s own opinion.

Military members disobey orders at their own risk. They also obey orders at their own risk. An order to commit a crime is unlawful. An order to perform a military duty, no matter how dangerous, is lawful as long as it doesn't involve the commission of a crime. Firing the missile at Soleimani was not a crime as currently defined.

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3 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@edg
meaning that a person is so deranged to hate Trump more than a rational person would be capable of. Which one is it now?

Geez, I really have to check everything.

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1 user has voted.
edg's picture

@mimi

He should be ashamed of how confusing that is. Words have meaning and context. If humans stop communicating concisely, we might as well give up language and resort to grunts and gestures.

TDS is Trump Derangement Syndrome. It applies to people that irrationally hate Trump and criticize anything he does.

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1 user has voted.

@edg Several times I acknowledged that technically you were right -- I just wanted to offer a plausible alternative way to consider the phrase, and suggest that when the words "Trump" + "Derangement" are coupled, it can also be reasonable to think of his unreasonable, deranged cult members.

Further, an extreme, reckless narcissistic type of leader like the Don almost invites a strong, extreme negative reaction. It's the nature of the unruly, predictably unpredictable Beast. Few people who oppose him -- which appears to be roughly 52% or more of the public -- have soft, nuanced views. His backers, and a few here, would call it "deranged" but mostly the negative comments about Donald are within bounds of reasonable discussion. In fact, the "derangement" actually can barely keep up with the deranged leader's behavior. We'll have to pick up the pace obviously.

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0 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@edg

Firing the rocket that killed the Iranian general wasn't unlawful as currently understood.

Who understands that currently in that way? With what kind of argumentation? A war against Iran was not declared by Congress. The order to fire a rocket to kill the Iranian general then is in my understanding equal to an assassination. AFAIK that is a crime and therefore unlawful.

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2 users have voted.
edg's picture

@mimi

They both stretched the limits of the authority granted by Congress. Obama authorized and justified assassinations, including of Americans residing abroad. Trump is just following the precedents they set. Reviews by US courts have supported such killings as legal, despite treaties and US policies such as Executive Order 12333 forbidding assassination.

The stance of the US government is that "it's legal if we say it's legal". As the old proverb says, Might Makes Right, meaning if you're the strongest, you decide what's right and wrong.

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1 user has voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@edg

which is what various people have been trying to point out.

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1 user has voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

edg's picture

@TheOtherMaven

I hope you aren't claiming otherwise. It's hard to judge the intent behind short comments.

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0 users have voted.

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