"It has always been up to the voters" - LMAO
Submitted by snoopydawg on Mon, 09/09/2019 - 11:06pm
The Democratic Party can never even claim to have democracy until it does away with its corrupt vote-rigging superdelegates that exist ONLY to overturn the popular vote.
— Polly Tickal (@PollyTickal) September 9, 2019
Yeah, but only until the super delegates make their choice.
"I think our process has been the most fair, transparent, inclusive process in the history of the Democratic primary,"
Let's ask Mike Gravel and Tulsi Gabbard how inclusive this process has been shall we?
"If we want to we can go into a smoke filled room and decide who the candidate will be."
Comments
Actually, in a way he's right
The DNC's process is very transparent. Transparently corrupt, that is. We can see right through the BS statements and the propaganda.
Edited to add: Here's a new interview with Tulsi Gabbard, discussing this subject, among others.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Primo Nutmeg
does good interviews. He was also the first person to contact Mike Gravel about the teens only endorsing Bernie on his behalf. Gravel corrected the record first with Primo Nutmeg.
This interview shows the depth of Tulsi's policy positions. Her positions are not just black and white, but have far more nuance and depth to the issues facing us in the US.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Yes... Transparent
They say that there's a broken light for every heart on Broadway
They say that life's a game and then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes and an outline of the story
And leave you all to improvise their vicious cabaret-- A. Moore
More Calvinball...
Maine adopts ranked choice voting, but only AFTER the primaries.
Mills could simply sign the bill in time for the primary, but she instead pulls a procedural stunt to delay implementation so she can keep Bernie from adding to his delegate total (he's a lot of non-Bernie voters' second choice).
Every chiseling trick in the book - like 2016 all over again.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
The problem with RCV in Maine
is that there are still party primaries.
It's NEVER been up to the voters.
As much as inventing super delegates stunk, super delegates are by far not the only way in which Democrats strive to rob voters of choice.
As much as including big donors/lobbyists among the super delegates stunk, super delegates are by far not the only way in which Democrats strive to rob voters of choice.
Democrats seek to rob voters of choice in ways that are less obvious than super delegates. Not to mention their accomplices in media. Hence, super delegates have never had to override the choice of voters.
They're doing it right now
They're putting the candidates through a funnel that gets narrower and narrower, with the goal of eliminating all of them except the Oligarchy's Chosen One. And they're trying to create the narrative that this is entirely normal and above-board.
(Of course, for the Democratic Party machine, this kind of thing *is* normal. It's their standard operating procedure. "Shenanigans 'R Us" should be their motto.)
They've now got their corporate media minions declaring "delegate counts", based on nothing except cherry-picked polling results (the same polls they're using to funnel the candidates). They're doing it months before actual voting starts. At this point in the pre-primary process, the candidates are still making themselves known to the voters. It is way too soon to be declaring winners.
You know how the Republicans have started cancelling caucuses and primary elections? I'm half expecting the DNC to do the same thing later this year.
"Well, folks, this handful of CNN and WaPo polls, in which 500 people over the age of 60 who have landlines were polled, show that [Oligarchy's Chosen One] has clinched the nomination. That's good enough for us! Democracy in action! And all of you had better vote for [Oligarchy's Chosen One] in the general election, or else! If you don't, you're just a bunch of Trump-loving, Putin-puppet radical commies, like Bernie. And if the planet burns up due to climate change, it will be all your fault if you don't Vote Blue No Matter Who! [Insert additional emotionally manipulative ShareBlue David Brock talking points du jour.]"
In a way, I wish they'd do it. Make 'em show their hand really clearly and, er, transparently.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Who is the Oligarchy's Chosen One?
Simple question.
That remains to be seen
There are several whom the oligarchy-MIC-powers that be would probably be OK with. They currently seem to be auditioning for the role. Part of the audition process involves the public, but I'd imagine a lot (most?) of it goes on behind the scenes. Warren's recent meeting with Hillary, for instance.
One thing's for sure, they don't want outsiders interfering in their selection process. That would include things like Tulsi Gabbard taking out their contenders. No wonder they're barring her from future debates.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
I am not even sure the oligarchs have played their hand yet
They have been floating a lot of candidates as the establishment choice but none have really stuck. I honestly believe that Kamala Harris was their first choice but she continues to implode. I personally do not believe that Warren is their first choice. I believe Warren's role is to funnel voters away from Bernie and Tulsi by being sold as s more "acceptable choice." Plus she is a woman and the Dems love to play identity politics. I think the one to watch down the line may be Buttegieg who is a toadie of the first magnitude plus I believe he has deep state background.
There is still the possibility that the super delegates will parachute in Hillary Clinton on the second roll call vote at the convention. The Clintons still hold the structural power in the Democratic party so nothing will surprise me. And if worse comes to worse and Bernie wins on the first vote at the convention, they will ensure that his Vice Presidential choice will be one of their own.
Yep, I am very jaded.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Whichever One can maintain corporate rule
Some of the bigwigs in the party/major donors probably have a favorite pony, but I seriously doubt they really care who emerges provided the One who does is able to keep any and all people-driven/lefty-populism outside the halls of power, which is (tragically but obviously) the primary purpose of the modern incarnation of the Democratic Party.
So the oligarchy is not unified?
Can't agree on a favorite pony?
They're just happy to settle for what in their minds is just the more or less evil as long as s/he serves their interests?
I'm not so sure why they would waste their money on primaries then, especially if they're rigged.
In any event and any such scenario, that lack of hegemony seems to leave some opportunity for the 99%.
Not sure I'm following you
I'm reading tea leaves just like everyone else here, but it doesn't seem black or white to me, there's some nuance and gray area and competitive interests just like with most other things in life.
Not Bernie or Tulsi.
You may be right, you may be wrong
Obviously not Tulsi, but the evil ones may have outsmarted themselves this time around. I'm willing to at least make a Pascal-like wager with Bernie. Last chance for the opportunity of a lifetime (before it's too late to deal at all with climate change).
I've never really liked Billy Joel, but:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jo9t5XK0FhA]
I voted for Bernie in 2016
I'm not sure how I may have communicated that I'm not willing to vote for Sanders, but assuming I get the chance I will be voting for him here in the Ohio Dem primary, as I did in 2016. I don't agree with every aspect of his policy but he is an acceptable compromise position for me.
Sanders is the only candidate running on either major ticket that can get my vote in the general. (I would also seriously consider voting for Gabbard but she doesn't have a chance at the Dem nom.) It's just that the people who run the party are so clearly trying desperately to sink his battleship I don't feel confident he/we can overcome the forces aligned against him/us via routes of traditional electoral politics.
Never a bad time to roll out some old school Billy Joel, though, so thanks for that.
It's both-and.
Yes, the superdelegates are taking away voters' choices. So are the massive bribes handed out to politicians by our crazy elites. Yes, there are innumerable other ways they are taking away voters' choices. Focusing too much on superdelegates, bribes, and the electoral college (all the things people most readily talk about when they address this issue) means that you might miss the outright fraud that occurs.
For instance, you would be surprised how few people on the left--even here--believe that George W. Bush only got into office through election fraud. As in, illegal activity that rigged the election for him. Even Jimmy Dore talks about the electoral college as if it's the reason we got W. People talk about the Democrats who voted for Bush as the reason we got W. The fact is, while they may have taken advantage of those things, none of them was necessary, because they only counted the votes they wanted to. Had there not been enough votes for Bush to provide a convenient cover story, they would have invented them.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
On an interesting side note, Dubya no longer
appears in a list I glanced at of the worst presidents evah. Of course Trump does, but I wonder if there will come a time when even that will change. I fear much scarier times ahead.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Not really a side note
It's one of the primary functions of Trump--to repair the reputations of the Bush Republicans. And it's working like gangbusters.
Another primary function of Trump is to give a moral blank check to both the Bush Republicans and the Clinton Democrats.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Whenever someone says this to me
I ask them just what Obama did during his 8 years to fight climate change? The Paris accords were said to be a very weak proposition because they didn't really accomplish much of anything like stopping the oil and fracking companies from continuing to drill baby drill. In fact Obama opened up more areas for drilling and fracking and even in the oceans after the BP disaster which he totally mishandled. Letting BP drop millions of gallons of Corexit over the oil instead of allowing the Norwegian ship come slurp up the oil. Corexit was dropped over people's homes and over inland waterways and many, many people got sick. Did BP ever have to pay that measly fine or did congress reduce the amount? I haven't looked into this to see, but remember a few oil captured congress critters wanting to do just that.
And what are the democrats doing while Trump is deregulating the EPA? Congress passed the laws in it and yet once again one person is overwriting their will and laws.
OF course lots of people are going to get rich when the poo hits the fan because that is how disaster capitalism works now isn't it? How many hurricanes have hit just during Trump's failure where FEMA and other government orgs have done the bare minimum and let people suffer instead of offering help? Huston, Florida, PR and now the Bahamas. People are dying? So?
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Maybe twitter won't let me embed tweets coz
. . . I don't have a twitter account.
I just noticed that Snoopydawg embedded a tweet.
I'll retest/retry here:
Edit/add:
Looks like twitter has blocked me as an interloper.
Post a link to the tweet and I will give it a try
If you get the c99 error message look to see if there are graphics in the tweet and remove them and try again.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Already tried a tweet you posted recently
Nothing displayed for me. I'm assuming you have a twitter account?
You don't need a Twitter account
to post one. The tweets I post in the am are from my other computer. And I may have removed the graphic in them which I did this morning.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
PS: Twitter photos are not displayed on reddit accounts for me
I don't have a reddit account and I just noticed that when I look at Way of the Bern, Kossacks for Sanders, etc. that twitter photos don't display for me there either. This has just been going on for a day or so. I previously had no problems like this. It might have something to do with a MS update but I tend to think it's coming from twitter.
I'm a contrarian
Philosophically there's a place for superdelegates. To give the obvious example if the Republicans had superdelegates then we would have President Kasich and... America would be blithely wandering down the path to dystopia and heat death fearing nothing but the resurgent Inquisition. It's not the system, it's the people
On to Biden since 1973
True dat
The deplorables put Trump in office, much to everyones surprise. Her was a shoe-in by all estimates.
It's why I couldn't stop laughing November 8th.
If the establishment Repugs had Superdelegates things would have been very different.
The fact that Trump is getting primaried (Sanford)says alot. Personally, I don't think Sanford has a snowballs chance in Hades. But firing Bolton today may move TPTB to oust Trump at all costs.
There will be no draining the swamp on their watch.
Trump just took a bucketful of scum floating on top.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Not in a republic or a democracy.
In a democracy, the will of the people as expressed by the vote is supposed to determine policy. In a republic, the will of the people as expressed by the vote is supposed to determine who leads the country and determines policy. Superdelegates, who exist to safeguard the country against the will of the people, are inimical to either system.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Theoretically (and I did mean theoretically)
groups of wise people limit the public's choices to a handful of worthy candidates. In a degenerate plutocracy the most effective of a couple dozen egomaniacs buy or lie their way past the rest regardless of worth. When this occurs is less important than that it occurs. (For example 2016 was an abject failure by both parties. The Republicans should have refused to allow the primary voters to have their choice and the Democrats should never have allowed Clinton to steal the nomination. Preferably neither should have been allowed to try for the nomination, but in neither case were the parties morally obliged to accept the people's "decision".)
On to Biden since 1973