Midnight Express - Sean Hannity Destroys the Fake News Mainstream Media!

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I saw this evidently serious article on a conservative web site. I couldn't help but stop to think about those that believe Sean Hannity (and Fox news) and how ignorant they must be. Just stupid as all get out. I'm sorry, but it has to be said. Hey, I try to admit when I'm stupid. We all should because we all are. Even "our" president, have you read some of his tweets?

That's like Ted Bundy lecturing other serial killers for being serial killers. "I'm not a serial killer but you guys are!" Same bullshit Trump pulls when talking about CNN and the "fake news", while he's watching Fox. Good gawd.

But to be a "progressive" equal opportunity critic, I should say it's the same type of thing I've seen on progressive web sites. Like, "Rachel Maddow Destroys the Fake News Mainstream Media!". Same thing only different.

In fact, everything is the same thing only different. I watched the first half of an excellent new documentary by Metanoia Films, Plutocracy V: Subterranean Fire, written and directed by Scott Noble.

"The film provides the historical context that allows the viewer to understand why inequality reigns while social justice and peace lag today. The, at first blink, curious title stems from a quotation by the American labor leader August Spies, who was one of four anarchists hanged in 1887 after being found guilty in the bomb explosion that wounded and killed several policemen and civilians in what became known as the Haymarket affair."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/51722.htm

Highly recommend it. I was particularly interested in the historical context of the fight for labor rights and against wealth inequality and the capitalist system. Young people, even some older people, tend to think what is happening now, what they're experiencing now, like the incredible wealth inequality, the evil fucking imperialism, the government intrusion on our rights, privacy, freedom, and liberty, are somehow new or different. Many, particularly progressives that lean toward or are partisans of the democratic party, tend to think that now is somehow different than the past relative to the class struggle against the oligarchy, that the young people now "get it" and the new young progressives, the "democratic socialists" are going to solve our problems through the democratic party and the oligarchy's duopoly political system. "Hey man, AOC is going to get us Medicare for All!" "Improved!"

Hell, that's an insult to those before us who fought against the capitalist system and it's rulers. People put their lives on the line against this capitalist system and now we've got progressives lapping up to a 29 year old casting call democratic party politician masquerading as a socialist while wearing designer shoes.

I noticed this article titled "France Promises a presence in the Pacific amid an anticipated ‘global confrontation’"

My first thoughts were to the yellow vest movement, particularly those advocating major changes in the undemocratic representative government system there (like here). Imperial France continues decades after losing it's prominence and many people, as protested weekly by the people wearing yellow vests, understand the struggle has to continue and expand.

Unfortunately the oligarchy/plutocracy controlling the United States now mandates an almost continuous election process that seriously distracts and inhibits those prone to activism by steering them into the never-ending democratic vs republican party undemocratic farce, because we can get fooled again, and again, and again. The people now seem no match to those that came before them.

https://www.defensenews.com/global/asia-pacific/2019/06/05/france-promis...

The only solution, is revolution.

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Alligator Ed's picture

the more they remain the same.

Excellent post. The Haymarket Riot, on May 1, 1887 was only one of many bloody confrontations between elitists (oligarchs, capitalists, oppressors--choose your own description) and those on the under side of social justice / financial equality / societal responsibility. From the Whiskey Rebellion of the U.S.'s earliest days to the bonus marches after WW1 outbreaks occurred.

We need our own Yellow Vest movement--active on the weekends but hidden resisters on other days. A variety of reasons may be posited as to why this hasn't happened in Amerika. But as you describe in your post, you'll not learn of this on Faux Spews or MSDNC.

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Alligator Ed's picture

@Alligator Ed The Bonus Army

43000 veterans and others vs 1800 army and police plus light tanks. Guess who won?

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Big Al's picture

@Alligator Ed all the past efforts against capitalism, the oligarchy and it's corporations, etc., and considering the incredible wealth inequality and obvious lack of democracy, it's pretty amazing nothing is happening here except efforts toward the duopoly election system. You're right, there are a good number of reasons for the seeming apathy. Just have to keep fighting.

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@Alligator Ed that you watched fox news?

And who did you watch?

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dfarrah

Alligator Ed's picture

@dfarrah Just asa with certain pharmaceuticals, I realize that Fox should come with a black box warning (warning of danger which may occur with usage) about their veracity, just as with every MSM outlet. I do this to see what the Dims have been up to as Carter, Solomon et. al. have done some great reporting on the coup. I also follow Q. Does watching those outlets mean I swallow everything they try to feed me? Even alligators can be particular about what they eat.

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@Alligator Ed skepticism.

Nice straw man, too.

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dfarrah

@Alligator Ed Greg Gutfield? Oh, I know, he is a conservative.

But he is hilarious. He talked about the milkshake tossed on some politician, then he said he considers that to be a terrorist act because he (Greg) is lactose intolerant.

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dfarrah

Wink's picture

@Alligator Ed

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

mimi's picture

on the streets of the US compared to the yellow vest demonstrations or other demos in Europe (quite few still), is due to the fact that the punishments for US demonstrators and whistleblowers are and were always much harsher than in Europe.

The US has the death penalty still. Solitary confinement imprisonments are torturous and interogation methods psychologically very destructive. I could imagine the 'Angst' level of the US population is silently higher than the 'Angst' level of demonstrators in most EU countries.

Who can blame them? I am more scared to say something these days than I was in the sixties, and that was in Germany. At least there is no death penalty there. The sentences of the courts for those who have violated laws while demonstrating are less harsh. Sometimes even so much less that one wonders if they would have effects they are supposed to have at all.

Thanks for the essay. Will try to read through the links during our long weekend here.

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@mimi wouldn't be afraid?

After all, Obama wrecked habeas corpus and dems don't believe in innocent until proven guilty, and they believe that evidence free accusations are sufficient for adverse action.

Then there is Manafort sent to solitary at Rikers for financial crimes!

Then, the sjws are shredding free speech. Their notion of tolerance is the exact opposite of what the word means.

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dfarrah

wendy davis's picture

@mimi

to be far less unified in their outrages, but consider the vast size on amerika comparatively. most protests are in washington deecee, but think how few have the wherewithal to travel such distances (funds and time). the yellow vests' power is protesting week after week, and adding activists, rather than the opposite, as some social movements have.

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smiley7's picture

Hell, that's an insult to those before us who fought against the capitalist system and it's rulers. People put their lives on the line against this capitalist system and now we've got progressives lapping up to a 29 year old casting call democratic party politician masquerading as a socialist while wearing designer shoes.

Come on man, give it a break. She's standing a fuck of a lot taller than any of us are.

Sorry friend, you go too far; just be an anarchist and let we folks do the best we can, collectively.

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Big Al's picture

@smiley7 that's the way it is I guess. I'm not stopping anyone from doing anything smiley. Just doing what I think is right. I don't think we go far enough.

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smiley7's picture

@Big Al
one aspires to change anything.

AOC is your friend and you don't understand that; just as Trump voters think he's their great American white savior.

I'm asking as an old friend for you to lighten up--pause. AOC and others fighting the good fight in their ways don't deserve the venom.

Save it for the capitalist pigs.

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dkmich's picture

@smiley7

I have to defend Al's right to speak his opinions. I am sorry others' find Al's truths hard to hear, but it is what it is. None of us have a crystal ball and cannot predict which is the best path to reform. Perhaps all lead there and all are necessary. As Al points out, we are all good and bad. Ignoring one for the other is not a good thing in my opinion.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

*donate to c99 *like us on Facebook *follow us on Twitter

SnappleBC's picture

@smiley7

But that doesn't mean I don't wish to hear the ways in which either myself or AOC might be incorrect. And it especially doesn't mean I want to start shouting down voices of dissent here on C99. There are plenty of fine sites dedicated to enforcing some narrative. We don't need it here.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

@smiley7 "AOC is your friend and you don't understand that; just as Trump voters think he's their great American white savior."

IMO, people have their priorities and support people based on that.

AOC is not my friend when it comes to some important legal issues; in fact, I am genuinely afraid of the sjw's nowadays.

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dfarrah

Strife Delivery's picture

@smiley7 Um... no.

AOC is a capitalist pig. By definition of her policies, she is a capitalist and an imperialist.

She is a social democrat smothering socialism like a typical Democrat. People like her a far more insidious than compared to even the likes of the Clintons and Reagan.

People like Clinton and Reagan stab you in the front; people like AOC stab you in the back while they smile.

Social democrats are nothing more than sheepdogs meant to corral wayward souls back into their veal pens where their views are co-opted and neutralized. She is the dangling keys meant to keep people distracted and invested in the vile, sadistic, capitalistic, imperialistic, bloodthirsty entity known as the Democratic Party.

Social democrats have always been the enemy of the people by their nature of supporting capitalism. History has shown social democrats like her to be not only the enemy of socialists but to the people themselves. Social democrats have time and time again sided with fascists in exterminating the real threat to capital: socialists.

She supports Israel without real concern of the Palestinian people.
She supports the imperialist intervention in Venezuela by backing Juan Guidao over the legitimate President.
She supports NATO which is edging us towards war with nuclear-power Russia.
She defers to Pelosi, therefore undercutting her so-called "socialist" rhetoric.
She thinks socialism is merely government-funded agencies or programs such as police stations, perpetuating the Orwellian destruction of the actual meaning of socialism while keeping it safe for the capitalist pigs.

That's just a small list. We need actual socialism, not more likes of watered-down, meaningless garbage.

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wendy davis's picture

@Strife Delivery

but she's a brand who seems to be untarnishable to all but the wary and knowledgeable. the tankie (socialist/red) twittersphere does dog her trail almost too rigorously, but they do bring tweets that she's scrubbed since her election, and some of them are hilariously re-brandings (praising bill de blasio's gentrification schemes, etc.). just recently someone had gone back to her appearance on firing line (with transcript) and yelled OMG all over again.

but i hadn't known that she's backing guaido (save for having signed ro khanna's letter to pompeo calling maduro a tyrant who kills his people, and the list goes on). but srsly, you can't get away from her; site after site noting: Socialism has come to amerika! with her photo. but even her (and her allies) Green New Deal is a gift to capital.

on edit: i'd offer that many DSAs are capitalist reformers, nibbling around the edges. #FightForFifteen!

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dystopian's picture

@smiley7 Thank you for your post. I found this quite distasteful:

29 year old casting call democratic party politician

since as I understand it AOC was one of the people whose party affiliation was changed, or she was stripped from the rolls. This seems to me to have been her original motivation for getting involved and taking action. Which is pure of intent. Purity of intent is everything to me. It was real and for the right reasons. It was not a casting call looking for stardom. The casting call slur is not pure of intent IMHO. Your mileage may vary.

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We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

@dystopian actor.

Born to a working-class Puerto Rican family in the Bronx, New York, Ocasio-Cortez graduated from Boston University, majoring in economics and international relations, and worked for Senator Ted Kennedy's office where she focused on immigration issues while in college.

https://www.biography.com/political-figure/alexandria-ocasio-cortez

Some myth-making here, unless you consider her father's job as an architect to be working class.

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dfarrah

@smiley7 She is an idiot and doesn't do her homework.

She has been pushing the notion that our internal criminals are let off free while non-white terrorists from other countries are being prosecuted to the fullest extent. She kept asking why we aren't charging the internal ones under the same law that applies to external ones. It's because the internal ones are charged under a different law - I think the guy cited some sort of hate crime law that is used for prosecuting the internal criminals.

Apparently she didn't realize that the particular law covers external terrorists.

She is too stupid to even figure out what laws cover whom. That is rather important - knowing what laws apply where and to whom.

But she is fine with making s up.

I used to think it was bad for legislatures to be dominated by lawyers, but when one sees something like this, one can understand that it is important to elect people who know the laws or people willing to familiarize themselves with the laws.

AOC has turned out to be quite the ding dong.

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dfarrah

Alligator Ed's picture

@dfarrah It used to be okay to say "let's call a spade a spade" but that aphorism has been delegated to the dustbins of impropriety by PC. But AOC is being promoted, not by progressives but by those, whomever "they" might be, for purposes of making the Demonratic party look ridiculous. With Nancy "let them eat crumbs" Pelosi on the right of the Dims and AOC ope the left, who cannot but laugh at the incompetent fools appearing on the media outlets--Spartacus (Booker), the Camel, Beto "I eat dirt" O'Rourke, Pete "Ima gonna tear down your house for your own good" Buttigieg, Joe "don't ask me about China" Biden, Bernie "HRC may I kiss your ring" Sanders, Amy "salad tastes better when eaten with a comb" Klobuchar, etc.

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@Alligator Ed want to pick on her, I do like her passion.

But some of the idiocy is too much, especially for someone who is well educated.

Additionally, she is a legislator, so if she believes that sentences are too light for white criminals, then she can try to change laws instead of grandstanding.

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dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah @dfarrah (corrected grammar mistakes)
If you were born in another country than the US, but worked and lived in the US your whole life, are you external or internal? If you are a legal permanant resident, who grew up in the US, but didn't get yourself a US passport and still have an 'external citizenship and an external passport', are you external or internal? If you have been born in another country, but grew up in the US, even became a Veteran of War for the 'stupid war' supporters and got messed up your life serving, and then became a US citizen with the 'all-life saving US passport', but in your heart you still feel the external country of your birth scepticism, are you an external one or an internal one?
So, when someone of those categories above speak their mind, when do the powers that are consider those, who speak up, more an external vs. an internal terrorist/anarchist/killer?

When you migrate ... things happen ... and few understand what they might be. At least the separation from internal to external is not helpful, imho. They swim all in the same ocean. They are then all internal to the Atlantic or Pacific. Can you be external when you float in the oceans and seek land that you happen to float against?

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snoopydawg's picture

I agree that it's incredible how many decades people have been fighting for equality in every way and yet here we still are hoping that one day we will get it if we just elect the right person(s). I keep thinking that congress has pushed the last straw this time and people are finally going to rise up and fight back. And yet... Lots of people here in Utah think that Trump is the best president in their lifetimes and that he has kept most of his promises even though he is doing pretty much the same things that Obama did.

Today, people with access to the internet have little excuse for continuing to depend on state-corporate media sources. Why would anyone willing subject himself to disinformation and propaganda? Not too mention paying for access to such unreliable information and the soul-sapping advertisements that accompany it.

That anyone thinks that the main stream media tells us the truth is just mind boggling. Or that the people who work for the intelligence agencies will ever tell us the truth. And yet look at how many people think that Mueller just did. Brennan and Clapper are on TV every time we need to hear some new propaganda. SMDH.

Good article. Worth reading again.

Hope you don't mind if I post this article here. Lots of what it talks about goes with this subject.

The Force That Is Ending Freedom Is Lies

Every empire is a dictatorship. No nation can be a democracy that’s either heading an empire, or a vassal-state of one.

The idea of an empire is that the imperial nation’s rulers, its aristocracy, extract from the colonies their products, and they impose upon their domestic subjects the financial and military burdens of imposing their international dictatorship upon the foreign subjects.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

Alligator Ed's picture

@snoopydawg

Unless and until the U.S. regime itself becomes conquered — either domestically by a second successful American Revolution (this one to eliminate the domestic aristocracy instead of to eliminate a foreign one), or else by a World War III in which the U.S. regime becomes destroyed even worse than the opposing alliance will — the existing insatiable empire will continue to be on the war-path to impose its dictatorship to everyone on this planet.

You say you want a revolution? Stand up for Assange.

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@snoopydawg things like Obama did.

His efforts regarding trade and making it more fair for the US is historical, given the neolibs and neocons sold out the country and US workers for decades. If he is successful in re-balancing, that should have a huge impact on the US workers for years to come. That is, unless the dems and repubs sell us out again.

His efforts to make Europe pay more for their defense is again historical. While you may be against war and all of its apparatus, at least the US won't be gored in this area.

His efforts regarding the border are huge. The involved countries on our continent already receive millions in aid from the US. And now since our borders have proven so weak, people from the other continents are now trying to enter illegally.

He has also signed an executive order about freedom of speech on campuses. Can you believe that college campuses, of all places, are suppressing free speech?

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dfarrah

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@dfarrah His efforts regarding the border are huge. The involved countries on our continent already receive millions in aid from the US. And now since our borders have proven so weak, people from the other continents are now trying to enter illegally.

It's not the borders that need fixing. It's the exploitation and oppression we have reaped on Latin America since before the time of Teddy Roosevelt that creates the circumstances by which Central and South Americans become economic migrants.

Stop Imperial business as usual and there is no need for a wall (not that there is anyway).

That's the history that needs to change.

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger @Not Henry Kissinger explain the current economic migration?

I don't. Why are they migrating so much now? Are they being economically exploited much more now than in the past? Why are most of the people remaining in their countries if things are just so bad in those countries?

These people are obviously well-fed and well dressed. They look nothing like the true refugees in the east who were skin and bones in raggedy clothes.

I also don't buy the notion that they are such hard-working, talented people. If they were so great, then why don't they work on their own countries?

When you get free healthcare, free housing, free education, and free food, how does that not incent everyone else to try to immigrate to the US?

You apparently believe that the US owes these countries, even while the US provides millions in aid to these countries.

All countries have internal problems - that really does not justify illegally migrating to other countries. The US already has its own that need to be taken care of.

And this doesn't even get into the issues of human trafficking, drugs, disease and wage suppression.

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dfarrah

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@dfarrah

When you get free healthcare, free housing, free education, and free food, how does that not incent everyone else to try to immigrate to the US?

But where exactly is all this free stuff you are talking about?

And how do I get me some?

Every argument you make is based on an outdated and fanciful notion of what the US never was. MAGA is a myth from the get go.

Why are they migrating so much now? Are they being economically exploited much more now than in the past? Why are most of the people remaining in their countries if things are just so bad in those countries?

The most recent migrant wave is coming mainly from Honduras. And considering we recently overthrew the elected Honduran government and replaced it with a military junta, it's no wonder people there are running away.

But hey, it's all just 'History' right? The history where we exploit Latin Americans and then blame the victims for their own misery. Columbus would be proud.

You apparently believe that the US owes these countries, even while the US provides millions in aid to these countries.

Sorry, but military aid that helps puppet governments overthrow elected governments and fund right wing death squads doesn't exactly count as humanitarian assistance.

What we 'owe' these countries is to leave them alone.

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger provisions.

How do you think they manage to live in the US? Have you seen all the inventory maintained by ICE to help these people when they are taken into custody?

https://www.forbes.com/sites/theapothecary/2018/02/26/how-american-citiz...

For an opposing view: https://immigrationforum.org/article/fact-sheet-immigrants-and-public-be...

However, even this article admits that children of illegal immigrants get free education.

And then the article has a whole paragraph on benefits they do get: Undocumented immigrants may be eligible for a handful of benefits that are deemed necessary to protect life or guarantee safety in dire situations, such as emergency Medicaid, access to treatment in hospital emergency rooms, or access to healthcare and nutrition programs under the Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants, and Children (WIC).

Do you think that the benefits listed above cost nothing? Oh, it's just a 'handful' according to the article.

I work in housing and I know that illegals get free housing, they get free re-location expenses under some circumstances, and they get free food and health care from various organizations, as noted in the quote above.

Then add up all the people who work providing illegal immigrants benefits - those personnel costs are also costs of immigration.

They cannot possibly make up for their costs with their small wages. Free medical costs alone would wipe out any tax contributions they make, given how much medical care costs.

I don't understand how people can possibly believe that illegal immigrants, even if working, are not a huge economic burden. The numbers they cite simply don't add up.

And if you need assistance, it is income restricted. There are plenty of services for people with low incomes.

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dfarrah

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@dfarrah

How do you think they manage to live in the US? Have you seen all the inventory maintained by ICE to help these people when they are taken into custody?

Wow. I never knew ICE was such a benevolent organization that undocumented aliens actually wanted to get arrested just so they can enjoy all those great free perks from the luxurious comfort of their government funded cages.

Amazing what you learn on Fox News.

Next thing you'll tell me is that they get sent back over the border in Cadillacs.

Spare me the neo-Reaganite claptrap. Conflating immigration NGO services with government programs is one thing, but lumping ICE's 'services' in on top of the other alleged 'benefits' is just downright hypocrisy.

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Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger Righteous.

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@Not Henry Kissinger
internment of US citizens during WWII? i mean, come on, we spent a lot of money on those barracks and that barbed wire.

basically, we paid for them to spend 3 whole years at summer camp.

meanwhile, back in reality, here's a question i've been wondering about: are those kids that we've detained indefinitely in school? are they being taught to read and write and calculate? because it seems to me that if they aren't, we're violating a fundamental human right.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01, a Boeing 757 (AA Flight 77) flew into the Pentagon.
If you can't accept these indisputable facts, I can't fake an interest in your opinions about anything else.

@UntimelyRippd citizens. Do you understand the difference?

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dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@Not Henry Kissinger

at the border. It sure seems like he has lots of money to spend to make immigrant's lives miserable. He keeps taking money from programs already funded by congress which is outside the limits of his office. But I'm betting that democrats will just stay quiet about it. He has canceled education programs and physical ed time for kids locked up in cages all day. And recently there were 900 people in cages meant to hold 125. People were standing on toilets to get fresh air to breathe and I sure hope no one needed to use them for any business. But hey at least he's making his base happy.

This is a very sad article to read.

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America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg Our facilities weren't designed to handle the numbers of people. The government doesn't yet even have the staff to handle the volume.

Really, what exactly is your solution?

I read your article. The article expresses outrage that a psychotic did not get the needed treatment; it cites a drug addict that needed help, and someone who committed suicide. (Yep, these are the 'hard-working' people that we need to fill jobs).

And all of this is entirely the fault of the US government, yet the writer simply cannot know the condition of these people upon arrival after a long journey.

Are you remotely aware that there are US citizens who need this aid? Have you heard of our suicide and addiction and mental illness crises? Have you heard of our homeless? Are you really choosing these people over US citizens?

Well, I can't do that.

Further, I can't imagine what kind of woman would endanger her children in that manner.

Oh, here is something interesting.

https://themazatlanpost.com/2019/03/30/honduran-migrant-who-rejected-a-p...

Yep, model citizens, each and every one of them.

Were you going to let me know the websites you found the Russia stuff on? I would really like to read them. Thank you.

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dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

Are you remotely aware that there are US citizens who need this aid? Have you heard of our suicide and addiction and mental illness crises? Have you heard of our homeless? Are you really choosing these people over US citizens?

This country has been ignoring vulnerable people since forever. You think that if there weren't any immigrants being held in cages at the border then congress would start helping them? Hell they won't even fully fund our social programs because they think it costs too much money. I rely on many of them myself and I keep getting less from them. I know that if there weren't people trying to come here that congress wouldn't put any more money in them. Congress has plenty of money to fund them, but they have other priorities. Like giving rich people f'cking tax cuts and subsidies when they don't even pay taxes on the profits they make. They didn't have to increase the military budget billions more than what was being asked, but they did.

We have destabilized many of the countries they are fleeing from and whatever aid our government gives them doesn't get to the citizens. We have taken countries that used to care for their citizens and destroyed it. Have you seen what we are doing to Ecuador? We gave them $4.6 billion in loans and people there are being fired. This was mandatory for them to get the loan. This means that we just destabilized another country that used to have a decent economy. Ecuador used to be a great place to live and now it's doing our bidding and Moreno is screwing his people. We are responsible for that. We helped overthrow Honduras and now people are fleeing from what we made it into. Should we have to help the people who have legitimate reasons for immigrating? I think that we do.

I get it. You don't like immigrants coming here and having your taxes going to helping them. You have made this quite clear. I'm choosing humanity and compassion over whatever it is you are trying to sell.

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10 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg @snoopydawg

This isn't really directed toward you, but I find it interesting that a few months ago, a lot of posters were ridiculing Trump for calling the border issue a crisis.

I recall he wanted resources to deal with it, including more judges, agents, etc, but the dems would have nothing to do with it (and Trump and the dems have gone so many rounds on the border, I can't keep track of all of the offers/denials/counteroffers).

So now, many on this site clamor for more and more resources because, OMG!! OMG!! OMG!!, it's a crisis!!! (see the irony?)

IMO, these treks are not organic at all; I believe someone(s) are well-funding the effort, possibly paying these people and keeping money in offshore accounts for them. It is all too well-orchestrated.

See? I can conspiracy with some of the best. Smile

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dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah 1 billion per year on health care for undocumented immigrants. A lot of division about that of course, the only way to pay for it is taxes. And like you said, while the undocumented can get aid (much less than the right wing sites like to say), legal Americans do get left out and/or shafted by the system. There has to be a level of compassion involved, we can't just put someone dying from acute appendicitis on a bus back to Honduras or deny a kid who is here proper medical treatment.
And relative to the cost, it should be kept in mind, or at least fucking thought about, the cost in taxes being paid for corporate welfare, i.e., imperialism and the police/military state which equates to about 1.4 trillion per year. It's funny how people want to bitch about a billion here and there but have no qualms with the military/police state surrounding their sorry asses.

That's not to say we don't need major solutions to this problem, not only here but globally. But unfortunately our political system is completely incapable of doing so.

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Big Al's picture

@Big Al amounts of our tax dollars for U.S. imperialism and the police/military state, pursuing regime changes, starving countries, ruining economic systems, contaminating food systems, etc., actually causes most of the undocumented immigrants flow to this country and those in Europe. So those bitching about the amounts spend on undocumented immigrants, without also criticizing the U.S. and other country (France, England, Russia, China) imperialism that largely cause these problems, are in effect supporting what they're railing against.

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8 users have voted.

@Big Al yes I do, about all the things you listed.

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2 users have voted.

dfarrah

wendy davis's picture

@Big Al

but additionally claim you're wrong in your formula. many undocumented visitors pay into the amerikan economy, by way of SS and FICA, etc. and will likely never see a dime back. pardon me, but hate to see you promoting this, in fact.

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2 users have voted.

@Not Henry Kissinger with government services at all.

The fact remains is that people refuse to recognize the huge costs of immigration.

Do you think just because an NGO picks up expenses, that there is no cost to that service? Where exactly do you think many NGOs get their funding from?

Try here: https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/13/federal-government-fund-ngos...

Since you mention it, Fox did go to the border and filmed some of what was going on. The agents there showed them all the stock they had - food, diapers, clothing, medical, etc. ICE also retrieves all the idiots who jump into the river to cross, only to find out currents swell. That operation was filmed as well.

What do you think ICE does? They have to provide for these people until they are released.

Some questions need to be asked here:

Have you ever worked in the human services welfare areas?

Have you ever worked in housing services to house those who cannot afford housing?

Have you ever worked in medical entity that serves lower income - no income groups?

Did you know that ICE can only hold people for so long? Then they are released.

How many people here have opened their houses to illegal immigrants?

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dfarrah

Not Henry Kissinger's picture

@dfarrah

His efforts to make Europe pay more for their defense is again historical. While you may be against war and all of its apparatus, at least the US won't be gored in this area.

That Europeans spending less for their defense makes for a much more peaceful world.

Americans too for that matter.

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8 users have voted.

Peace Sells

@Not Henry Kissinger the US to shoulder the main burden.

I don't like the idea of more defense spending at all, but if its going to be done, the burden should be more fairly distributed.

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1 user has voted.

dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

he is doing pretty much the same things that Obama did

He may be doing some of the things you mentioned differently, but when it comes to our war of terror Trump is following in Obama's footsteps. Trump says one day that he wants to bring the troops home, the next day he says they are staying.

He efforts at the border might be something you like, but the way he is treating immigrants is abhorrent. I don't think that you should just look at the things you like about him without seeing the truth of the bad things he is doing.

His efforts to make Europe pay more for their defense is again historical.

Has any country upped their NATO payments? I haven't kept up on this.

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10 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg is "the way he is treating immigrants is abhorrent?"

What exactly do you think we should provide, above and beyond everything we already provide?

Maybe we should just build a bunch of 5 star hotels, restaurants and medical facilities at the border and be done with it.

Only that wouldn't have any impact on the drug and people traffickers.

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0 users have voted.

dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

and how it's abhorrent then I don't think you would hear what I have to say. Maybe Fox News doesn't cover it or think it's not something to worry about. But just like wars abroad come home, what's happening to them could possibly happen to us too. I'm seeing human rights abuses. Others are seeing human rights abuses. Obama did many things like that too, but not on this scale.

Maybe we should just build a bunch of 5 star hotels, restaurants and medical facilities at the border and be done with it.

Seriously? Is this what you think I'm saying here? I'm done.

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9 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg are going to pay more.

But I haven't exactly traced any payments anywhere.

There are plenty of things I don't like about Trump, but anything that helps US workers is on the top of my list. And unfettered immigration is not something that will help the US worker.

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1 user has voted.

dfarrah

@dfarrah quite a few in this country who somehow still believe if we got rid of all the "illegals" employment for Americans would magically be restored and all our problems will be solved. Huh. Kinda like those on the supposed "left" who still believe impeaching Trump solves it all. Sigh.

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8 users have voted.

@lizzyh7 any of this as finally resolving anything.

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dfarrah

@snoopydawg Fits in perfectly here.

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wendy davis's picture

@snoopydawg

but as assange was mentioned, i hope those who care might read about the new horrors i'd added at the end of the comment stream: 'abandon all hope of Australia or the UK helping Julian Assange: Updated'

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5 users have voted.

you listened to fox news?

Listeners of Fox news are not stupid. Fox news is not entirely Sean Hannity. There are other editorial commenters like him, like Tucker and Ingraham.

I find their editorial commenters to be much more factual than those on the liberal side. They can usually present clip after clip of the bs pushed by other networks.

That network was the first to call into question the whole Russia hoax. If they hadn't dug into the story, we would have never found out how corrupt some of our institutions are.

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2 users have voted.

dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah anyone who watchs AND believes the outright propaganda Hannity and Fox news are spreading, they're stupid in my book. I say "believes", because some evidently watch these oligarchy controlled propaganda programs just to see what propaganda is being spread.
And like I said, I consider the other oligarchy controlled, i.e., mainstream media, news channels and their mouthpieces the same.

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8 users have voted.

@Big Al my question, did you?

When is the last time you watched fox news?

You haven't, have you?

I've come to believe that there is a vast non-republican conspiracy to take out Fox news, because it is almost the only source of news that is contrary and different to the other main outlets.

The constant bashing of this outlet is simply not justified.

And the bashing is going to get worse, because the viewership of fox is increasing while the other main outlets are declining.

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dfarrah

Big Al's picture

@dfarrah Probably ten years plus, same goes for pretty much all TV news, including local. Just became disgusted at the constant lying and learned about who owns the media and why. I see no reason to go there, I can gather what is said from the sites I visit on the internet. You do know who owns Fox news, right?
So like I said, I'm not just talking about Fox news, I'm talking about the entire oligarchy controlled "mainstream media" that works in concert with our duopoly political system to spread propaganda and lies. Of course everything said on these programs are not lies, but the overall agenda is nothing but propaganda. Maddow is just as bad as Hannity to me.
Relative to viewership, what do they get? A couple million? Less than 1%? It's all a game and I don't play.

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9 users have voted.

@Big Al "Hate, Inc." is a must read. It is available online with each chapter published as Matt wrote it.
He did an interview with Hedges on "On Contact" that gives an overview of the media before and after the creation of Fox News.
Both Fox and the progressive media are called out for their business model of making people hate each other, and for keeping us all distracted, and, yes, incredibly stupid.
AOC wrote a tribute to McCain and didn't oppose Pelosi as Speaker. Insult her all you want. I can't think of a single politician I would defend from insults. None of them are worth defending.

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7 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@on the cusp criticizing the oligarchy controlled media and duopoly politicians. OMG! That goes directly to the documentary I linked in the essay and the long history of fighting the establishment and their politicians/political parties. But even now, criticize the wrong politicians, because everyone knows I could criticize 90% of the dem party politicians all I want, and people can't understand why.

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@Big Al Hannity and others were nothing but racists, sexists, and blah, blah, blah, and it all turned out to be bs. And I believed all that bs, until I actually watched some of it.

The US would have never heard about the Russian hoax without fox news, nor would anyone hear about suppression of speech on campuses, attacks on DT supporters, and the dems trying to overthrow the government.

There is plenty of debate on both sides at Fox news (including the editorial types).

Additionally, it presents people like Glen Greenwald, info from Matt Taibi, and Alan Derschowitz. So liberals who disagree with the official party lines on the world can at least go somewhere to be heard.

It is sad that networks are owned the way they are...yet another monopoly to break up.

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2 users have voted.

dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

The US would have never heard about the Russian hoax without fox news, nor would anyone hear about suppression of speech on campuses, attacks on DT supporters, and the dems trying to overthrow the government.

I know all about the Russian hoax and I do not watch Fox. I learned about it through alternative websites and from others here that link to alternative websites.

And not meaning to be snotty about this, but did you read the article that Big Al is writing about? Can you be sure that you aren't buying propaganda from the Fox reporters or any other site you watch or read. I can't and I am trying to be more aware of how much it is part of our lives. I will even read the alternative sites with an open mind.

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14 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg what your sources are.

Can you share some of these websites?

There are two reporters, Kathryn Herridge and Sara Carter, who supposedly did a lot of legwork, and John Solomon, who has dug into the issue.

Do you have other reporters' names?

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1 user has voted.

dfarrah

snoopydawg's picture

@dfarrah

Joe posts a lot of articles from the same sites I read. Consortium news is great. Moon of Alabama. Zero Hedges. Counterpunch. Truthdid. Truthout. Mintpress. The Saker.

Just a few. But what I find helpful is following links in the articles I read to others. There are more that I use in my older essays.

I have read Solomon, Carter and some others on 'right wing' websites and read everything with an open mind. I don't care for anonymous sources and pretty much every site that says that the DNC was hacked raises my hackles.

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3 users have voted.

America is a pathetic nation; a fascist state fueled by the greed, malice, and stupidity of her own people.
- strife delivery

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg I find it so amusing that we reached the same conclusions about Russia, Russia, Russia, by looking at completely different sources.

You gotta admit, though, that fox news has the much larger audiences.

I'll have to check out some of those, I'm interested in seeing the other reporters who dug up some of the info - I've read consortium and a couple of others. I had to whittle my viewing so I don't get more addicted to news than I already am.

Merci boo coo.

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2 users have voted.

dfarrah

@dfarrah as you keep repeating the word "news", that 98% of what you get on the so-called cable news outlets is propaganda. Steady RW GOP propaganda at Fox, some establishment lib Dem junk at Msnbc, plenty of centrist to right garbage at CNN. You are not getting news and honest analysis at Fox except for a few minutes a day when Tucker Carlson, to his credit, has on an honest lib or leftie or calls out an establishment Dem flak guest (I greatly save time by only watching him on YT).

Msnbc and CNN have been Russiagating their viewership for 3 yrs, and their cast of commentators contains a Hooz Hoo of Deep Staters. They have been out of the news business for decades. Fox was never in it.

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3 users have voted.

@snoopydawg alternative websites to share; I just look at Fox news. I mostly read this website, Naked Capitalism, Wolf Street, and KevinMD. And I'll read various articles linked in those websites.

Sometimes RT and the Guardian.

I genuinely thought that the reporters on (or guests of) Fox news uncovered the stories. Fox was reporting on the Russia thing months before it was picked up here. I kept waiting and waiting to see if anything would pop up here.

Were you the first person here to post about it?

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0 users have voted.

dfarrah

mimi's picture

@dfarrah
help but ask you, dfarrah, - and I hope you don't feel offended by my question - :
"had you ever to migrate from what you perceived as your home or home country, because of being devastatingly poor or because of devastatingly having the wrong race or ethnicity or simply the wrong nationality for your current powerfuls in your home country?"

You don't have to answer my question, I just ask to may be reconsider your own arguments.

Peace.

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6 users have voted.

@snoopydawg "Derch", Alan Derchowitz. One of my best friends, a law professor, is his close friend. Derch has turned.
Greenwald, a great legal thinker, caught on to the evidence depleted Russiagate from the beginning. No "liberal" news wanted to hear that.
Fox News is an amazing, noxious, propaganda organization that, after their money and ratings went sky high, became the template for the left.
Fox is bullshit.
CNN and MSNBC is bullshit.
Watch it, believe it, at your peril.
And mine. I keep a safe distance from True Believers.

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8 users have voted.

@on the cusp of the fact that greenwald and derschowitz are guests on Fox? Derschowitz is practically a fixture there because of the Russian stuff.

You really need to watch fox before you make an assessment based on all the propaganda from the dems, the other networks, and liberals.

Just today, they had guests running the gamut of political opinion. They all get pretty heated at times.

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2 users have voted.

dfarrah

@dfarrah explain why he is Fox' darling.
You are wasting your time trying to scold me into doing anything I refuse to do.
You say exactly the same thing people who watch Fox News say.
I don't need to watch it when I can read your comments.

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7 users have voted.

@Big Al naked capitalism.

Kind of ot, but still interesting.

https://www.nakedcapitalism.com/2019/06/identity-beliefs-and-political-c...

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3 users have voted.

dfarrah

Strife Delivery's picture

But to be a "progressive" equal opportunity critic, I should say it's the same type of thing I've seen on progressive web sites. Like, "Rachel Maddow Destroys the Fake News Mainstream Media!". Same thing only different.

Al, I've thought about this before, I just never put it to words.

People follow shit like this.

"Shapiro destroys X"
"Maddow destroys Y"

It's all a game, a childish one-up contest. Nothing more than simple taunting at some high school prep rally. And when you see the type of thing that they supposedly destroyed them in, it's pretty minor.

There's no concept of critical thinking, no rational discourse or thinking applied just again how many points on a scoreboard that isn't even real.

Shapiro, Maddow, Hannity, etc. All on the same team and yet people still just don't get it.

These people don't care about you. You are nothing but slaves to them and yet people think that they give a shit about you. Americans will never, ever get this it seems.

There is no one in power ever in our recorded history in this country that gave a damn about you.

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7 users have voted.