Florida Dems screw up and nominate someone good
The Florida Democrats are the party of neoliberal centrists who are supposed to appoint corrupt, uninspiring, corporatist, ex-Republicans that go on to lose to real Republicans.
That's their job. They are good at it.
But someone forgot to tell the voters this time.
In a late primary season shocker, Tallahassee Mayor Andrew Gillum defeated the front runner, former Rep. Gwen Graham, who had led in the polls for most of the campaign. He emerged from a field of five competitive candidates, in which he was the only non-millionaire and only supporter of "Medicare for all" single-payer health care, to become the state's first black gubernatorial nominee.
"The point has never been lost on me that my name on the ballot is simply a vessel, is simply the name,' Gillum told a raucous crowd of supporters in Tallahassee on Tuesday night. "But what is underneath that name are all the issues that we care so deeply about."
Gillum will face Republican nominee Rep. Ron DeSantis, setting up a clear ideological battle between progressive Democrats and a Trump-styled Republican in a major presidential battleground state.In a statement Tuesday night, Vermont Sen. Bernie Sanders, who campaigned for Gillum in Florida earlier this month, cheered the 39-year-old's "vision" and cast him as an emerging leader in the broader progressive movement.
It'll be hard for Gillum to win in November, but then the outcome will be unknown because Florida never had a Democratic candidate that actually stood for something before.
It might break some people's brains.
Just how big of an upset was Gillum's win?
In Florida, Andrew Gillum defeated a slew of rich people, including former Rep. Gwen Graham—the daughter of former Florida governor and senator Bob Graham—to win a stunning upset in the Democratic gubernatorial primary. No public polling conducted during the entire campaign—Gillum announced he was running in March 2017—showed him leading. Only in the final days of the campaign did he even get a polling result that put him in second place.
Meanwhile, the Dems in Arizona did something similar.
Long hyped as the frontrunner in the Democratic gubernatorial primary, David Garcia cruised to victory Tuesday, earning the chance to take on Gov. Doug Ducey this fall.Garcia, a professor at Arizona State University and former Superintendent of Public Instruction candidate, defeated state Sen. Steve Farley and activist Kelly Fryer to win the Democratic nomination.
...
But if elected, Garcia would be Arizona’s second Hispanic governor, following Raul Castro who served more than four decades ago.Ahead of the primary election, Farley, the only candidate who previously served in elected office, touted his experience and bipartisanship on the campaign trail. Garcia ran as an unabashed progressive by calling for free college tuition and a total overhaul of the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency amid comparisons to former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders.
Garcia jumped into the governor’s race last year after Ducey signed legislation to create universal vouchers. Garcia was so incensed by the action that he characterized as a major blow to public education in Arizona that he set his sights on ousting Ducey. Garcia sees raising taxes on the state’s wealthiest residents as the key to funneling more money into K-12 education.
The Arizona teachers might make the difference in this race.
Comments
I worked with Andrew Gillum
I knew and worked with Andrew Gillum when he was first elected to the city of Tallahassee Commission. While not perfect, Gillum is an extremely impressive person when you meet him and an outstanding campaigner.
He came on to the city commission as the youngest commissioner ever elected and probably the most prepared I ever met in my 31 years working with the city. He is extremely intelligent and a very quick learner. He is also a product of the Democratic party so I do not expect him to stray too far from party lines if he becomes governor.
I was always a big fan of Bob Graham because of his support for environmental issues, but Gwen Graham is nothing like her father, other than the use of her maiden name as a politician. She was a one term member of the House from my district and she was horrible. She voted with the Republicans on many issues including environmental ones.
Gillum's win over Graham shows that even in backwards and screwed up Florida, people are looking for a change. If Gillum wins over DiSantis in November, it will be a mostly symbolic change, since the Florida legislature is overwhelmingly Republican due to gerrymandering.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Comes as a surprise to me.
I figured it was gonna come down to Graham and Putnam (Both insufferable, especially considering Putnam is in the sugar industry's pocket). Too bad Gillum will be red-baited out of existence, or he'll swerve far-right to save face with the morons currently running Flawer'Duh into the cyanobacteria, or both.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsfbwLYIddo]
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Why don't you do yourself a favor
and be positive about this outcome? I am a long time leftie Floridian who has gotten in the trenches aka campaign working! Not only will AGillum win, he will help Bill old fart Nelson get rid of Sick Rott, once and for all! Rec'd!!
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
Hard to be positive after seeing AOC's immediate swerve
to the far-right. I'm fully expecting him to do the same and for good reason. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy to see him come out on top over the insufferable pigs Graham and Greene, but it's hard not seeing a rightward swerve coming very quickly.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
One tweet and she's
"immediate(ly) swerved
to the Right??"
Fuck Caitlin.
I know she's trying like hell to make a mountain out of a mole hill,
but it's still just a mole hill.
We Libtards not only have to battle The Right for votes,
we have to battle The Left too.
effing amazing.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Maybe that wouldn't happen if liberals weren't innefectual
pretentious assholes pushing lesser evilism while supporting policies previously considered ultra-conservative. Trust me, once it gets closer to the general election, both Gillum and AOC will have already swerved in full.
This trend has been going on since the Reagan Corporate Coup took over and it shows no signs of stopping. Hell, the trend even cost Gore the 2000 election on top of being Crosscheck'd by the Republicans in Flawer'Duh. Same with Kerry in '04 and the swift boat assholes. The only reasons Obama even won in '08 was because the economy went to shit under Dubya's watch while McBush/Paylin were on the campaign trail.
I have plenty of reason not to fall for this shit. I'd think you would too.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Molehill.
MMMV. And it does.
Clearly, you believe it's still possible to reform the (D) party from within. That's your prerogative. Others of us no longer believe that, which is our prerogative. As such, we refuse to fall for the breadcrumbs thrown our way by these "underdog" "progressive" candidates. If they have a (D) next to their name, we can reliably predict where they're headed. Fool us twice, well ... don't fool us again.
BTW, your "Fuck Caitlyn" is awfully reminiscent of "the Russians made me vote for Jill Stein." But thanks for discounting others' ability to critically think for themselves.
(Edited for formatting).
We've agreed on things before
This represents a divergence. If my language seems brusque, it's because I'm beyond pissed off by this entire system. Not personal. But this post represents my authentic disdain for American
politicsoligarchy.what Bernie says...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
AOC showed her true colors early--they are Deep State Blue
Your comments about AOC were well made in the thread following the AOC--who is she really? essay.
However, I don't believe she will the Jean d'Arc of New York, let alone US, politics. She's already signaled her real self. By endorsing McStain post-mortem, she revealed herself to be either a war-monger or a liar--or both. There is no "third way" with her situation.
She made an unforced error by endorsing (praising) McStain at all. She just couldn't keep her big mouth shut. By keeping her thoughts to herself, AOC could have sailed into office with a shiny Progressive label. I'm afraid we're going to be seeing lots of her wide-eyed wonderment in the next 2 years--in the manner of her outlandish wide-eyed buffoon liar colleague Adam Shiftless.
Is this the purity police speaking? Maybe. I just don't like a pinch of shit in my drinking water.
nonsense. n/t
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
The Nation's take
link
Gillum is an impressive campaigner
Like I said earlier, I know Gillum and worked with him. He is a very impressive person and an outstanding campaigner.
My concern about his connection with the Democratic party stems from his early political relationship and personal friendship with Scott Maddox for whom I have a strong distaste. Maddox was at one time the head of the Florida Democratic party and helped to run it into the ground. I also know Scott Maddox very well as he also served on the Tallahassee city commission for a number of years. Maddox tends to skirt ethics as well and Gillum has had a few minor ethical complaints made about him.
I am definitely not dissing Gillum. I am just pointing what I know up close and personal from several years of working with him in local government. Gillum is not an empty suit. He is a man of substance, intellect, and is progressive. I would love to see Gillum elected governor. If anyone can overcome the underdog role and win, it is definitely Gillum. The more that people see him in person, the more they really like him.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Look behind the candidate to the money
Not saying that with Soros' money will make him move to the right, but ... However NextGen America seems to want a more progressive agenda for the democratic candidates. Time will tell.
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
I did not know that, but
I am having a hard time wondering why they did not back Gwen Graham who is a far more reliable neo lib. Perhaps they hedged their bets and supported all three major Democratic candidates because originally Gillum was not expected to contend against Graham or even Levine.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Okay I found this article from the Tampa Bay Times
that describes both what I consider to be Gillum's strengths and what I was concerned about in his weaknesses.
https://www.tampabay.com/florida-politics/buzz/2018/08/29/how-andrew-gil...
While Gillum took money from a Soros backed group and from Tom Steyer, it was still Gillum's incredible ability to connect of voters across the spectrum that got him the nomination. The question now is if Gillum wins the governorship, will those donations affect his policies?
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Where have I heard this story before?
Florida Primary
Democrats are crawling out of the woodworks. Miami-Dade: Highest primary turnout in ten years.. State turnout for Dems. last time: 800, 000, yesterday:1.5m.
It's simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves that we've been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back. Carl Sagan
I hope it's good news
the people of Florida deserve way better.
Was scanning Twitter last night and saw he also wants to
reverse the NRA/white supremacist Stand Your Ground law that enabled local racist Zimmerman to be exonerated in the cold blooded murder of Trayvon Martin.
That interests me greatly.
In the past pundits would have said that a candidate would be crazy to advertise himself as anti-NRA or guns. But that time is past. Just as many, if not more, people are on my side (very much gun control or abolish outright) all over the country than the twisted 2nd Amendment fetishists. People are fed the fuck up with the chronic mass murder sprees. Way past time to have some tight restrictions, everywhere.
That whole thing never ceases to melt my brain. These propagandized morons have been convinced by NRA predatory psychology to actually think that owning a gun is the enshrinement of Freedom and Liberty. I can't smack my head hard enough. Not free healthcare, or college tuition, or nationalizing the power grid, mandatory corporate laws about vacation/child care/sick leave/pension, etc. Then you might have real freedom, to do all the fishing and hunting or whatever else one wants to do. Thinking that one is entitled to own a gun, and will liberate and protect (another farce) you is FreeDumb.
Another barely veiled manifestation of White Supremacy. Just ask them how they'd feel about every Black person in the country owning guns (see the Black Panthers brilliant ploy to show up at the California State Capitol with loaded rifles; Raygun immediately signed into a law gun restrictions). Or just look for the NRA to come to the side of yet another Black victim of police murder. Nope, they just tuck their tails and run from it. Phony bastards. Another thing that always gets me is, where are the cops in coming out against the NRA? Would seem a natural, seeing as they're always fearing for their lives and killing children with toy guns. But no, their Klansmanship shines right through. They're ok with their race stockpiling guns - just in case (those coons rise up in revolution, or the Big Gubmint wants to enforce marshall law for Republicans or something).
I'm with Florida natives, and fellow R&R brethren Lynyrd Skynyrd on this one:
The rest sounds
prettyvery good too:Have to say again I'm gleeful the Neoliberals got smoked, by a guy who took a tenth of the money they did and upset their gravy train with canvassers and volunteers. It could have one believing in elections again - were they to be verifiable and not subject to fraud. Because every single time the candidate with the most unapologetic, progressive agenda- that brings out the legions of volunteers who go door to door - will always crush all corporate Neoliberal phonies every day of the week.
Loved the Mother Jones article I pulled up, that had no mention at all of Bernie endorsing and campaigning with him (though they ran a perfunctory picture). Neolib embarrassment to its namesake, MJ couldn't show their contempt more for the Bernie wing that relies on volunteers not donors, and speaks to the enforced austerity of uber-capitalist policies that are destroying people's lives.
I don't know that I believe in electoral politics.
I do know that I love to see the Neoliberal Dems flailing and getting pounced.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Fine comment.
The pen is mightier than the sword. Maybe if a preponderance of these legislative criminals went to the Pen, there might be some reform.--don't hold your breath.
A thoroughly nice closing song, to which I would like to add:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqufISDLyrY&frags=pl%2Cwn]
Good for Bill?
I like Gillum a lot (assuming no scandals involving him). But even if he ends up losing, I suspect it will end up helping Bill Nelson and other democrats (neo-libs or otherwise) by increasing base turnout in November (Nelson is consistently down in polls right now).
But the FL party establishment is too stupid to know that Gillum's win is actually good for the majority of their candidates and might be too lukewarm about Gillum's campaign. ...as opposed to Gwen Graham who might have pulled a Hillary and focused on getting socially moderate voters to the polls. Heck, some of the establishment might try to sabotage Gillum.
With all the backstabbing going on at the DNC,
I am not optimistic about anything political. Did you see the letter posted on Twitter? It talks about how the DNC gets to appoint or clear all nominees. I still see no hope without a third party. I read by Nick Brana (sp?) that they are working with unions for form a third party. He says they wanted to do this decades ago, but the unions were ahead of the people. He thinks everyone has caught up.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I predict the D party will cease to
exist after 2020....
they have no base, no hit, no pitch.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
A party I could support.
Fuck the Dims, Time For a Third Party
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I watched this.
dkos started with more and better in 2006? Look where it is today. I can't find no reason to get involved with the Democrats.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
What happened with Greyson?
Mind, I don't much like the guy on a personal level, too much drama, but he did run on a platform which included as strong an anti-war, get out of the Mideast statement as we are likely to see. I did think his statement about the first thing he would do is introduce a bill of impeachment was dumb. Again, too much drama.
Do Flowerdians here have any insight? Greyson didn't just loose, he lost by a lot, which suggests he made himself unpopular with someone besides Republicans.
Mary Bennett
I read that his opponent was progressive too
So there wasn't much policy difference.
Down With Tyranny
is blaming Republican money in Democratic primaries:
In all the congressional races, the most consiervative Democrat beat the more progressive one, most tragically in FL-09, where a wretched New Dem, Darren Soto, was helped by a gang of Republican billionaires-- who spent a million dollars in a concentrated smear campaign-- to defeat Alan Grayson. Other races were rotgut candidates from the Republican wing of the Democratic Party outspent progressives and beat them were in FL-07, where Blue Dog Stephanie Murphy beat Chardo Richardson; FL-15, where progressive Andrew Learned was beaten by worthless conservative Kristen Carlson; FL-16 where David Shapiro beat Jan Schneider; FL-18 where Pam Keither was beaten by Lauren Baer; FL-26, where Debbie Mucarsel-Powell beat Demetries Grimes; and FL-27 where the 5-person race leaves Democrats with Donna Shalala instead of eight of the 2 progressives, David Richardson or Matt Haggman.
Now I hasten to add I don't necessarily believe everything I read at DWT, or anywhere else. DWT did swallow the Klinton Koolaid AND the Russia Russia Russia hoax after all.
My take so far is that 1. You know the other side will spend, spend spend. We know this. We also know the two major parties are two halves of the same corrupt machine. Did Grayson, or the other defeated progressives have any ground game comparable to AOC? 2. We need better candidates. Not just folks who mouth the acceptable opinions but who have the ability to inspire support are needed. And who are willing to put in the hours needed. Americans tend to respect the person who appears to have done more work and paid more dues. I would suggest that that is the main reason Beto O'Rourke has a fighting chance against Cruz, because he looks and acts like he cares. 3. We need to perhaps be hard nosed about people with too much baggage. I know we all want to be tolerant and believe in second chances and all, but maybe someone like for example Senator Franken never should have been public office at all. If a guy like Gillam can come from a working class background and live a decent and clean life, which by all accounts I have seen, he has, then I think others can as well.
Mary Bennett
When Grayson won his first US House race,
he went after the FRightwing GOPukes regarding single payer healthcare which he supports. His famous comment was that the Pukes' version of healthcare was die quickly. The National GOPuke party targeted him as public enemy #1 when he ran for re-election. He went through a bruising divorce and got in trouble over some anti-jewish slurs (reportedly). So, he lost. This last time he ran against a solid, honest US House rep-D. Soto. Soto has a very good rep down here in east central FL so he was a formidable opponent to begin with. Hope this helps explain Grayson's defeat.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
DWT is calling Soto a neo-lib Dem.,
but perhaps he is not that.
How good an administrator is Gillum? There are powers which a governor has which don't need the legislature's approval. He could, for example, order Florida's environmental or interior department to investigate major spills and other pollution by industry and agribiz.
Mary Bennett
The party will do anything,
spend any amount
of money, to make sure Grayson gets beat.
Grayson can be an asshat, but you know which
way he votes. He needs to move to the Indy party.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Not just Floriduh.
Running "ex Repubs" on the Dim line is straight out of the Karl Rove Playbook.
Most voters fail to show up at the Primaries (16% turnout in my beloved NY-21), so it's easy to get them a Primary win, so the G.E. ends up Repub vs. "ex Repub." What we've pretty much had here for the last two cycles, one of them coming in from the midwest somewhere. "good to be back in my old hometown!!" {rolls eyes} We're told to embrace the suck. Hell, I can't even rustle up ten of us to canvas the State Fair in the 'cuse (Syracuse) tomorrow. Can I get ten?! Five?? blue wave...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
No doubt
It's just that Florida Dems are legendary and exceptional at sucking.
All the young Floridians affected by the Parkland shooting
Will help Gillam. Keeping things tempered after seeing polls that put Rich Snot ahead in his race.
Beware the bullshit factories.
I’m on an extended visit with my mom in Florida.
We don’t watch much tv, with the exception of my mom’s three favourite programs - Wheel of Fortune (which to her credit she often answers correctly before the contestants do), Jeopardy and Bill Mahr. For the past few weeks all of the political commercials (which seemed incessant) featured Graham/Levine and Desantis (Trump)/Putnam (God’s country-man). I never saw one from Gillum, the winner. In the car on National Radio I only heard discussion of the same 4 contestants. Imagine my surprise following the vote last night for Gillum. I had to do a crash course on Gillum. See results here.
It will be interesting to see how Florida votes in November, having two choices for Governor who could not be more contrasting. Considering that votes for Desantis means a vote for Trump, it will be quite revealing in terms of what one can expect in 2020. As usual, it’s not especially promising unless more young and POC vote, which might more closely balance the number of Republican voters. What I did find somewhat encouraging in this primary was that the number of R and D voters were pretty equal.
I don’t have a whole lot of faith in a positive outcome, or even if a more ‘positive’ outcome will translate into enough of a significant change, but I still hold some hope for some measure of change if Gillum wins. Although Nelson is surely undesirable, Scott would be less so. Since it’s hard for me to imagine a systemic change, all I can hope for is some little bits of change that might at least bring some relief for some.
Where Gillum excels on the campaign trail
is in getting out and meeting voters. He connects extremely well with people of all stripes. This has been the case from when I first met him as a 23 year old first time city commissioner.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I hope his natural connection with people
will be allowed to flourish and grow.
My bones, which sometimes lie to me, tell me that the Kochs
will throw the same kind of money and personnel at Florida's gubernatorial race as they did with Brown v. Coakley about 8 years ago. Massachusetts, and especially "Ted Kennedy's seat" was highly symbolic and therefore of great interest to them. When Brown ran for re-election, though, they were far less interested as the "curse" had been broken.
A Democrat setting up housekeeping in Florida's Governor's mansion may have that same kind of symbolism for them as Florida, once a Democratic stronghold (like the rest of the Solid South) hasn't elected a Democratic Governor since 1994. (And, Kochs or not, brace yourself for Republican Southern Strategy.)
Obviously, this is all my interpretation/speculation.
And where did Brown end up -
as ambassador to New Zealand, where he is largely ignored (at least by NZers). I guess he served his momentary purpose for the Koch brothers and company, and now shares the field with the multitude of other sheep. The Kochs are heartless farmers, who themselves should be put out to pasture along with the unquenchable Southern Strategy.
He's more than decent for now...
... but like gulfgal98 noted in the comments above, he's a "D" after all and there's a script to be stuck to. I remember candidate Barack Obama talking about how "no one has suffered more than the Palestinian people" back in 2007!
thanks and
it's good to see you commenting too!
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
One more important point: Floridumb
is a closed primary state. Indies can not vote. That won't be the case come November.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
That's a glaring point.
Any guesses for November?
I am assuming that at least some of the
famous/infamous votes for Nader in Florida in 2000 came from those who had been voting Democratic. They were well ahead of me.
Of course, that was 18 years ago.
According to 'The Nation,' Gillam was a FSC surrogate,
which is also what Cable News talking heads have been saying--I take it as a way to assure moderates that he's not too dangerous. (BTW, their take on left politics, not mine
).
Hey, don't know anything about Gillum; never heard of him until Tuesday. Certainly, he'd be far better than DeSantis. OTOH, since conservadem Graham has put her support behind him, I sorta figure that he's either not as progressive as he claims to be, or, that he's being accepted by Establishment Dems because the Dem Leadership is doing the same thing they did with Warren--backing him, but with plans to rein him in, if he wins.
Or, maybe he's what he claims to be. Hope so, for the sake of Floridians! (Lived in Temple Terrace in grade school; property in the Panhandle.)
Blue Onyx
"Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong."
~~W. R. Purche
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."
~~Lao Tzu
“At the end of the day people won't remember what you said or did, they will remember how you made them feel.”
~~Maya Angelou
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
This line from the Nation article linked above
caught my attention:
For a while now, we’ve been living in a time when people in neither party are interested in governance from the middle
I would amend that to neither party is interested in governance at all. The Rethugs are too busy divvying up the spoils among themselves and their oligarchical patrons while the Dims appear to be caught up in their endless round of parties, conferences, "events" of al kinds.
If Mr. Gillum wins, he will ultimately be judged on his performance in office, such as what happens when the next hurricane storms ashore. If he looks like a Dim rising star, I would not put it past the Trumpery Admin. to offer only token support, of the too little too late variety, if any at all, unless Mar a Lago is threatened. Does anyone here have any knowledge about Mr. Gillam's performance as mayor? Some TOP members, I know, consider the source, were having a freakout about Gillum winning the primary; "FBI investigation" (NOT of the mayor's office, I gather) and "He will make Bill loose" were the themes. TOP was quick off the mark with a pro-Gillam thread the day after the election. TOP can't afford to compromise its' friend and ally of POC status.
Mary Bennett