Open Thread - Wed. March 16. 2016 - Trump and Fascism

With the primaries in full swing now, the rhetoric has gotten very hot, some of which is good and much of which is bad, very bad. Barring any significant change, it is almost assured that the Republican nominee will be Donald Trump. The specter of a "proto-fascist" such as Trump being nominated by one of the two major political parties is frightening. I do not believe that I am going all Godwin on this as other notables such as Robert Reich, Dana Milbank of the Washington Post, and Roger Cohen of the New York Times have all expressed concern about Trump's fascistic parallels.

Trump’s incendiary verbal attacks on Mexican immigrants and Muslims – even his reluctance to distance himself from David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan – follow the older fascist script.

That older generation of fascists didn’t bother with policy prescriptions or logical argument, either. They presented themselves as strongmen whose personal power would remedy all ills.

The rise of Trumpism is the closest this country has come thus far to diving totally down a tragic rabbit hole to a place where we should never want to go.

A lot of Americans struggle to get by, their pay no match for prices.

Along comes Trump, the high-energy guy. He promises an American revival, a reinvention, even a renaissance. He insults Muslims, Mexicans, the disabled, women. His words are hateful and scurrilous. They play on fears. They are subjected to horrified analysis. Yet they do not hurt him. He gets people’s blood up. He says what others whisper. He cuts through touchy-feely all-enveloping political correctness. This guy will give Putin a run for his money! His poll numbers rise.

It would be foolish and dangerous not to take him seriously.

Still other experts on fascism conclude that Donald Trump, while exhibiting some characteristics of fascism, is not really a true fascist.

Bob Dreyfuss has written a lengthy article on Trump and the potential for fascism in the United States. This article was re-published to TomDispatch earlier this week. And Dreyfuss notes the following early in his article.

For figures ranging from comic Louis C.K. to right-wing commentator Glenn Beck, making direct Hitler-Trump comparisons has become the fashion of the moment. I must admit, however, that “proto-fascist” sounds about right to me. Certainly, the rise of Trump has caused many voters to take notice -- the question being whether the real estate mogul (who further stirred the pot recently by retweeting a quote from Italian fascist dictator Benito Mussolini) could cobble together enough of a coalition of nationalists, Angry White Men, “poorly educated” working-class backers, the disaffected religious right, Islamophobes, immigrant-bashers, and others to wield the figurative pitchforks in a march to victory in November.

As Dreyfuss so accurately points out, not only is Trump's rhetoric incendiary, but also his association with very right wing groups is very disturbing. Not surprisingly, those on the left are concerned, but even conservatives in the Republican party are now sounding that alarm.

Trump, of course, has repeatedly played with fire when it comes to violence, intimidation, and the role of white supremacists, the radical right, and others. His dog-whistle refusal to instantly disassociate himself from David Duke and the Ku Klux Klan on the eve of the Super Tuesday primaries in the Deep South was widely condemned even by Republican officials. But in at least one case, an actual neo-Nazi, Matthew Heimbach, the leader of the Traditionalist Workers Party, used physical force against protesters at a Trump rally in Louisville.

As I was preparing this Open Thread, I listened to Chauncey DeVega's podcast commentary of his experience at the Chicago Trump rally which was called off at the last minute. In particular, what fascinated me was his interview of a black Trump supporter.

In this episode of The Chauncey DeVega Show, Chauncey also interviews a black Donald Trump supporter who wanted to engage in fisticuffs with two Black Lives Matter folks, gives some color commentary about what he saw and heard while in line and inside the venue, and ponders how Trump's white racist base will come to think about the Chicago event as their Alamo or battle against the Zulus or Mau Maus.

So who are the typical Trump voters? We must understand why Trump has been so appealing and knowing who his voters are as one way to understand the Trump phenomenon. Several surveys have been conducted to determine why certain candidates appeal to which demographic of voters. These surveys give us a snapshot of the demographics of voters as they relate to the candidates. What we have seen is that, in general, Trump's voters are white, male, and poor according to analysis published in the Washington Post in December of 2015. One demographic predictor of a Trump voter that stands out is the lack of education. Of all the candidates, Trump has the least educated supporters. As educational attainment goes up, voter support for Trump precipitously drops.

But according to a survey from RAND Corporation, there is one that’s even better: Do you feel voiceless?

RAND tested several queries to clearly divide Trump’s support from his rivals. For example, they found that Trump crushes Ted Cruz among voters who both strongly believe that “immigrants threaten American customs and values" and among voters who "strongly favor" raising taxes on the richest American households. But voters who agreed with the statement “people like me don't have any say about what the government does” were 86.5 percent more likely to prefer Trump. This feeling of powerlessness and voicelessness was a much better predictor of Trump support than age, race, college attainment, income, attitudes towards Muslims, illegal immigrants, or Hispanic identity.

Many of the Trump demographic of voters are among the hardest hit by globalization and have watched their jobs and financial prospects diminish over the years. They are looking for someone to blame and feel as though they have no voice. They find Trump's bluster and bullying appealing. He may be a bully, but he is their bully.

And I was thinking to myself how far we have fallen as a nation that someone who preaches demagoguery could attract even some minority supporters. In fact, it has occurred to me that maybe we as a nation and Trump's supporters, in particular, have no clear understanding of what is before us. Therefore, we are forced to "see through a glass darkly" because we " have an obscure or imperfect vision of reality."

Donald Trump, even if he is simply a carnival barker, a con man, or a narcissistic deal maker, is a very overt symptom of things that have gone horribly wrong in this country. His strongman rhetoric of bullying, threats, racism, nativism, and promises to make America great again play right into the conditions facing so many Americans desperate for something positive in their lives.

In my next essay, I will examine the factors that have given rise to a Donald Trump.

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Gerrit's picture

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

gulfgal98's picture

Thank you for reading. Smile

I have been down in the dumps after last night. Can Bernie ever get a break and win a close race or what? Even freaking Missouri! Sad I just hope today is a brighter one for all of us.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Gerrit's picture

is what I think caused the backsliding to Clinton by undecideds and soft Bernie supporters. I remembered the old saying that people are quick to give up freedom for security. I think Drumpf scared folks so much that they ran to the perceived "stronger" candidate. That never ends well, sadly.

Clinton is the Maginot Line candidate. Drumpf would clobber her in the general with blitzkrieg strategies, as we all know.

I've been heartened this morning, especially when I read Pluto's posts from last night and by reading John Nichols. I look forward to hearing from the Bernie campaign today and ahead. How they respond will be critical to recovering our mojo. Best wishes,

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Resilience: practical action to improve things we can control.
3D+: developing language for postmodern spirituality.

gulfgal98's picture

I think you are right about people being scared of Trump. I got an email from an elderly aunt who is a very conservative Republican and she said that Trump scares her. I would have thought she would have been a Trump supporter so that surprised me.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

supenau's picture

I agree that Donald will most likely beat Hillary in an election. If perchance she did win the presidency we would have four more years of an obstructionist congress, impeachment attempts, indictments, and gosh knows what else. The Republicans have well sharpened knives and arrows after 8 years of President Obama and a Hillary presidency would be a game farm trophy hunt for them.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

expect that FSC will work 'hand in glove' with Republicans (as WJC did) to pass entitlement cuts, tax cuts, to involve us in more military engagements, etc. (I totally discount her rhetoric on most matters.)

She's a big 'bud' of two major Republican fiscal austerians--John McCain and Lindsey Graham. They are two of the 'go to' Guys (for Dems) who are willing to help strike a Grand Bargain. Democratic Rep Chris Van Hollen said that on C-Span. I posted the video clip at DKos about 3 years ago, now.

As I've mentioned before, impeachment proceedings aside, WJC worked ferverishly with the likes of Newt, John Kasich, etc., to slash budgets and cut social programs, especially on the backs of the most vulnerable Americans.

Hey, great to see you and your pretty 'LilliGrace' A good Southern name, if I've ever heard one!

Wink

Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress


“If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.”-- Woodrow Wilson
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

supenau's picture

Trust her , I don't and you are correct. I think she will take a sharp turn right once (and if) she elected. Every Republican I know absolutely detests her and that together with the tea party faction of the congress this will lead to a mess. I think that we are in for a rough set of years if she wins. Sigh.
Lilligrace thanks you Wink

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stevej's picture

I feel strangely optimistic and I am not sure why - this is very weird for me as my default position is borderline pessimist.
It might have something to do with the fact that the process is what is really important here -possibly even more important than the end goal.

This ties into your essay in a way. I see both Sanders and Trump as parts of larger processes. They are the tips of two icebergs. The iceberg that Trump represents is old news. It has been around since the first settlers - it is white Anglo-Saxon male domination by any means. The iceberg that Sanders represents is the fight for true deep social justice and that is something that is much more amorphous, that has come in and out of focus over the course of American history. Now I think that iceberg is suddenly real, it has come into sharp focus. Good things can now happen. Maybe that is why I am feeling optimistic.

Also - I think proto-fascist is about right for the Trump iceberg but it is moving in the wrong direction.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

We are at a crossroads and there is only one direction that will deliver us to the right end. And that is the direction that Bernie is leading us. Electing Hillary will not stop the deep unrest among the people and may end up pushing us ever further rightward. That is what really scares me and what I hope to delve into for my next essay. Trump is a disturbing symptom of that unrest.

Also - I think proto-fascist is about right for the Trump iceberg but it is moving in the wrong direction.

Btw, good morning, stevej.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

The process has a political component but it also has one that operates outside of Washington. I agree with the consensus that a Clinton or Trump presidency would be a very bad thing but I sense that something else has happened on the ground. I can see several things developing now that I couldn't before - or at least pre Occupy - an obvious one is a strong, Vietnam level anti-war movement which could be strong enough to have a real impact on policy. On the domestic front I would be very surprised if we didn't see a new reiteration of Occupy and a new massive climate change movement and I don't think that Black Lives Matters is going anywhere soon. (they had a great victory last night in Chicago)

The process that has seen the rise of Occupy, Black Lives Matter and Sander's is not going anywhere soon. The narrowing down of the race to Trump and Clinton guarantees the growth of the social justice and environmental movements imo.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

I have written extensively in comments, mostly at gos, that real change comes from the ground up via social movements. Every major political change came as a result of a social movement which developed a large enough critical mass that the politicians could not ignore it.

The thing that is very much concerning me is climate change. I really do not think we have four years to waste waiting for Hillary to evolve if she ever does. Meanwhile the TPP, fracking , and the all the other carbon based solutions that she supports will continue to hasten our demise. I think that is why I am down right now. Our window may have closed.

I do agree that Occupy will be back and hopefully will merge with BLM and climate change activists to create that critical mass that cannot be ignored. Sadly, if the Obama admin's actions toward dissent are predictive, I think dissent will be met with violence by the establishment.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

faced with the probable choice of Clinton or Trump will really focus thinking I think. Between them they cover just about everything that is rotten with this country from the pay-to-play establishment to the proto fascism that lies just below the surface. There is nothing ambiguous now and this is when good healthy grass roots activism flourishes.

The two sides are now clearly defined, the corrupt establishment that can no longer be seen as operation in everyone's best interest or the forces that oppose it.

I think there will be some violence - how much depends largely upon the media. I think that the police will want to respond with violence is a given. I am intending to write an essay about both institutions role going forward. Not quite sure when I'll get around to it though Smile

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

My essay for next Wed. will be on the factors that have led to the rise of a Trump like strong man. I have not written it yet, but I have a good idea where it is going based upon the research I did for this week. Actually this week was going to be a stand alone, but there was too much material to let it sit out there by itself. If you are willing to wait, perhaps you can dovetail on to my essay next week because I believe what you are talking about is the result of those factors that I will be writing about.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

looking forward to reading yours. The connection between the rise of Despots and the conditions on the ground that facilitate the rise fascinates me.

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

gulfgal98's picture

If there is something you want to use from my essays, feel free. I think we are living in a very dangerous time for the rise of right wing strong men, with the economic hard times, wars, and political and climate refugees. As climate change increases its velocity, people will look to strong men type leaders. This is why I believe it is important to be aware of this issue.

I hope that you can find the time to even create a series on this subject, if you wish.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

stevej's picture

As climate change increases its velocity, people will look to strong men type leaders.

I agree with this

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“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire

smiley7's picture

Thank you for this good read, "As long as the trains run on time," comes to mind. I'm bewildered, why don't these folks support Bernie? The media???

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hecate's picture

the one single consistent unifying factor shared by Hairball supporters is that they are authoritarians: people of the swastika armband. They are about hurting people.

Sanders does not want to hurt people. He is not an authoritarian. And he is not going to slip on a swastika armband.

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smiley7's picture

Big belly laugh from your comment down below; she must not get the ring. Thanks for the two links above; hard to believe; I thought the right-wingers were less than 20 percent of the US population, but...and the Evangelicals supporting trump boggles the mind, sure ain't Christ like. Then again, Evangelicals have always troubled me. Perhaps Hollywood will do a remake of Elmer Gantry starring 'the Donald.'

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hecate's picture

This is an illuminating piece on evangelical support for The Hairball. They support him for the same reason everyone else does: they're authoritarians. They like a big, strong, mean, Daddy.

Political polling we did 30 years ago just after I started my company provides an explanation of why he is getting so many of their votes. We found that evangelicals are drawn toward politics by messianic figures.

We found out what did draw this group toward politics: strong, decisive leaders, not issues. They got involved in politics for the same reason they got involved with their church—because they were looking for someone to help "show them the way."

Trump is perceived to be strong and bold; a leader that will help evangelicals navigate a world they believe is too often adrift and too different from what they want.

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gulfgal98's picture

I think there would have been potential for some cross over in the general, but these people are probably conservative Republicans to begin with. Their demographic of being the least educated really jumps out. That is of all the candidates in the Presidential race, Trump's were the least educated and poorest. Some one like Bernie would been seen as being too professorial to many of them. Trump appeals to gut instincts and and puts forth very little in the way policy prescriptions other than the wall and deportations. Bernie appeals to people's minds with facts and policies.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mimi's picture

I slept over the last results, so no worries, I am not going to say anything about them, just this:.

Don't be afraid to go Godwin. The Godwin rule is just stupid. I say that because, if there is no fascist of the past to compare against, people will search for the new right-wing fascist in the current times, just somewhere outside the US.

So, you can bet to hear a lot of talk about how bad the right-wingers in Germany and may be in France are today. Much, much worse than any right-winger in the US. The trick is to always find a group of people, who are not Americans, who are worse than the most right-wing Americans. Right-wingers in the US are always left of some other right-wingers outside the US, so that they can be the "do gooders" and "fight evil" and get their own "conscience clean". I silently observed this for many years. Why bother therefore with the Godwin rule?

Sounds bad? Yes, it is bad, but that's what it is. You never will shut up anyone to say anything no matter what with any kind of methods, and certainly not with some Godwin rules. They have been broken all the times, people have tried to put a lid on those rule breakers online without success. I wouldn't give my time to try to regulate those people in the blogs. It will never work. They just move around the corner to the next blog, if banned.

Oh, and of course there is absolutely no reason to not support Bernie. The electoral college system is so rigged, I wouldn't even bother about it anymore, just fight it and shout out about it and try to any sort of voting that would give Sanders a chance to win, and if that wouldn't be successful you cast a vote that does not support those you are not trusting or were against to begin with. Don't be afraid to be called pulling a "Nader" or being an unrealistic person to vote for Jill Stein. And if neither Sanders, nor your write-ins, win, you continue shouting and fighting against your absolutely gawd awful undemocratic system.

No way, you give up or in or do other kind strategic calculations. No matter how stupid, unrealistic, naive, purist, dumb anyone would call you. Let them call you. You do what is right according to your conscience. And you don't play games with anybody. Vote your conscience, darn it. And don't believe in the bullshit of having "moved" someone, who has not moved before into the directions you wanted them to be in, while in power. They are all turncoats in a second. Don't fall for it, no matter how depressed you might be.

Ok, time to shut up and move on.

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gulfgal98's picture

For the first time in my life, I actually feel liberated in my voting. No more strategic or defensive voting for me. No more lesser of two evils. The lesser evil is still evil. So if Hillary gets the nomination, I will be proudly writing in Bernie's name.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

mjsmeme's picture

Have any of the MSM pundits noted the disparity between Bernie winning his home state by over 60% and Hillary winning hers by less than 2%?

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gulfgal98's picture

the job of the MSM is to ignore Bernie as much as possible.

Good morning, mbeitchman! Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Alison Wunderland's picture

Bernie doesn't sell soap (yet), so he's the proverbial tree in the forest.

"Most people" aren't political junkies. They don't give any thought to politics apart from a vague notion that "things suck the way they are", but they only know a few "names" (political celebrities) and have to make their choices, because of their lack of information and interest in the subject based on those vague notions. MSM blares Trump, blares Clinton and monopolizes the limited attention "most people" devote to the subject of politics.

I just got here, what, yesterday? I came over because of the latest brouhaha at DK devolving into a pie fight about "low information voters" being a catch phrase for AAs. I read the diary and came away, not for the first time in my own thinking, without associating "low information voters" with African Americans, but that's probably because I've spent my entire life being on the wrong side of the popularity coin myself.

And this gets back to "most people." Most people aren't readers. They simply don't read, not for information, not for fun, not for any reason. In order to be informed, people need to want to be informed. It's a conscious effort. It has to be a conscious effort, and it isn't easy. It certainly isn't easy or probably even possible if people piss away their idle hours vacating their brains in front of the television.

"There are none so blind as those who will not see." But the irony is that most people don't get to see what doesn't sell soap.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

the Cable News channels. I've heard many national campaign reporters say that the drive for greater and greater profits, has influenced their coverage. Now they regret it. But is it too little, too late? Probably not. From what I'm hearing, the Republican Establishment has a new game plan--a brokered, or 'contested' convention.

IMHO, part of what we're seeing is the 'revenge of the Reagan Democrats.' And, like Dreyfuss, I believe that there will be a 'Trump-like' candidate for many years to come.

Although it's possible that the Republican Party will rewrite their rules to circumvent the rise of someone like him in the election cycles to come. Of course, Dems already have that--Super Delegates!

BTW, just heard a few minutes ago that FSC thinks that she will be able to 'use' the Supreme Court nomination, to 'unite' the Dem Party after the primary contest. Just now, 'O' has come on live. Maybe he's going to nominate someone, today.

He just did--Merrick Garland. A 'moderate,' of course.

May be back to post an animal story, later.

Thanks for the OT, Nancy. Have a nice day, Everyone!

Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress


“If a dog won’t come to you after having looked you in the face, you should go home and examine your conscience.”-- Woodrow Wilson
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

hecate's picture

four home states: Illinois, Arkansas, New York, and Mordor.

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gulfgal98's picture

Good morning, my friend. Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

hecate's picture

They don't have voting in Mordor. That's why you won't find it on the primary schedule.

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detroitmechworks's picture

when I was saying that Bush jr. was an idiot who should never be in the White House.

"Ok, he's a Moron, but he's OUR moron."

Unfortunately, GPTM has managed to fool people into thinking he's on their side. There's really only ONE guy on our side, and you can tell because the MSM has been completely against him since day ONE.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

gulfgal98's picture

Good morning, DMW! Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

detroitmechworks's picture

Right now, and I think it will surprise a few people with what I listen to... Smile

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

TheOtherMaven's picture

Another filthy rich SOB who decided to play toy trains with a whole country (Italy) and got away with it for nine long years. While some people have tabbed Berlusconi as "fascist", he's probably another proto-fascist (not quite there yet, but disturbingly close).

Berlusconi overreached himself, had to resign in disgrace, and is currently barred from any public office. By the time the prohibition ends, he'll be too old to run again (we hope).

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

gulfgal98's picture

in absolutes, such as "is Trump a Mussolini or a Hitler?" And problematic with that is binary thinking of yes or no without consideration of all the problematic shadesof grey. The question for me is not necessarily the definition, but what kinds of horrible things could result from such a strong man figure, like a Trump. I have also read about the comparison of Trump to Berlusconi before.

Good morning, TheOtherMaven! Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Shahryar's picture

doesn't mean he isn't another one of them. It'd be typically stupid for people to argue themselves out of the comparison because they found one thing that doesn't quite match up.

Lots of thoughts this morning. I'll have to find appropriate spots for them.

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gulfgal98's picture

just because he isn't Hitler or Mussolini

doesn't mean he isn't another one of them.

Some interesting discussion with stevej upthread..

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Amanda Matthews's picture

is the Clinton Family Slush Fund and the mystery of how two politicians can amass such a fortune for giving 'speeches'. Not to mention the donations from foreign countries who also just happened to be in the market for some very ugly weapons and who just happened to get them through the State Department while she was SOS. (Another shameful display of Clinton graft is Haiti. Why are the people still living in misery while luxury hotels are being built?)

I'm not well educated in classic literature. I don't have a repertoire of witty quotes from the great writers of days gone bye. But there is a quote from Honore de Balzac (in his novel "Le Père Goriot") that reminds me that some things never change and describes the Clintons (IMO) and the way they game the 'system' and sell themselves off to the highest bidder:

"The secret of a great success for which you are at a loss to account is a crime that has never been found out, because it was properly
executed."

The Clintons are corrupt. They are for sale. And the evidence is out there and it is quite possible that the Republican's already have it.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

WoodsDweller's picture

Headline today on HuffPo : "Trump Warns of Riots if He Doesn't Get the Nomination".
If that isn't textbook fascism, I don't know what is. Street violence is a political force multiplier. How many unreliable voters are going to risk standing in line at the polls if riots may break out? The Republicans no longer have the votes to win the White House, and this is the last Republican Senate we should see. They are in a demographic death spiral. Voter suppression efforts have kept them viable for a couple of cycles, but that has about run its course. Without a force multiplier they can't win. With a force multiplier ... this election could be the last one.
Why are Trump supporters in his camp rather than Bernie's? Because they are authoritarian followers. Conservative society has a purpose: to create a population with a higher concentration of authoritarian followers. There may now be a sufficient number of these people to smash (violent imagery intended) the mechanisms of democracy once and for all. When fascism rose in Europe, the rest of the world united to defeat them. We have nukes, no coalition of other nations is going to liberate us. We have to do this one ourselves.

Paxton's Five Stages of Fascism

  1. Intellectual exploration, where disillusionment with popular democracy manifests itself in discussions of lost national vigor
  2. Rooting, where a fascist movement, aided by political deadlock and polarization, becomes a player on the national stage
  3. Arrival to power, where conservatives seeking to control rising leftist opposition invite the movement to share power
  4. Exercise of power, where the movement and its charismatic leader control the state in balance with state institutions such as the police and traditional elites
  5. Radicalization or entropy, where the state either becomes increasingly radical, as did Nazi Germany, or slips into traditional authoritarian rule, as did Fascist Italy

Stage 3 was when the Tea Party started winning Congressional and Senate seats. As far as I know, no nation has pulled itself back from Stage 3.
Now we see the start of Stage 4.

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

pfiore8's picture

from the DNC's lack of investment in candidates to counter the whacko Tea Party to the lack of advocacy of our Dem President for bailing out Americans, duped by Wall Street and corporate greed.

we did NOT get here on the backs of Republicans alone. until we face what has really happened in our country, and our very Nazi-like destruction of people in other countries, we will never be able to pull back from the brink.

btw, George Bush stole his election. Clinton sold his country via NAFTA, Telecom Act, Crime Bill, and doing away with Glass Steagall. That doesn't include his ramping up of privatizing the military. GH Bush was head of CIA . . . i think we should have a rule that no one who headed the CIA should ever become president. Reagan was already showing signs of dementia while in office. . . and Nixon began the real end or our republic when he didn't get thrown in jail for his actions.

so, in balance, Trump is just the ugly image. but the truth has been hidden beneath layers of bullshit for so long, we just didn't understand this: IT HAS ALREADY HAPPENED. and this was while we had a sitting Democratic President.

Trump is really in the minor leagues when it comes to these guys.

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“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"

gulfgal98's picture

I intend to heavily lash out at the Dems and so called liberals. That is why I truly believe that the election of Clinton would fuel the rise of a Trump like figure. Hillary is not our firewall, she is the fuel for their fire. the status quo is unacceptable to too many Americans. They will search for something else and with the establishment's doubling down against Bernie and his ideas, that public anger may be directed in another direction, one that is not going to be pretty for anyone including the establishment. The public has been patient, but "embracing the suck" is no longer an option with climate change hanging over our heads.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

Shahryar's picture

instead of getting free publicity....well, you all know. Anybody here could write the rest of this post.

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gulfgal98's picture

And you have half written my next essay on this topic. I hope you will allow me to glean some of your comment ideas to use in next week's essay on this topic.

I have the beginning of it and want to point out why we went so wrong to get where we are at now. Hint: there is a LOT of blame to go around and electing Clinton will not be the antidote to Trump or someone similar to him in the future.

Meanwhile over at GOS, they will still be doing stories on stupid Republicans instead of looking into the mirror.

PS Good Morning! Smile

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

WoodsDweller's picture

It's like the penny bowl at the checkout. Take and idea, leave an idea. One line I inadvertently left out: the next step beyond voter suppression is voter intimidation. Another argument in favor of voting by mail, and why vote by mail gets such strong push back from Republicans.
Trump isn't stumbling into the violence angle - it's deliberate. Somebody posted a couple of days back about attending a Trump rally, and that everyone was nice before it started but got whipped into a frenzy during. That's all intentional. He's trying to create a force of brownshirts while maintaining plausible deniability.
"Bernie, you better quit sending people to my rally, or I'll send people to yours"
"If I don't get the nomination, millions of people could riot. I wouldn't be leading them, I'm just saying."
"Nice country you got here. Be a shame if something happened to it"

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"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone

gulfgal98's picture

I am too stupid to use the new comment editor properly. Duh! Blush Please proceed, gg. Wink

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

cybrestrike's picture

The Clinton Borg Cube won as huge victory last night. I was on Twitter most of the time and I can say with some serious certainty that many people will stay home if they have a choice between the Fascist and the Borg.

And actually, the Clintons are more like the Dominion. "Give us what we want (neoliberal new world order) or we'll just come and take all of your stuff (TPP, TTIP, other corporate trade deals). Or we'll blow you up. A lot."

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gulfgal98's picture

I always love your comments! Biggrin

I actually see the Clintons like the mob. They operate in a similar way with threats and money laundering.

BTW, I am writing in Bernie for the general regardless.

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

hecate's picture

who once referred to Zed Crud as a "jackass," now says he is "Lucifer."

He is reminding me of Bob Dole. Who described a meeting of Jimmy Carter, Gerald Ford, and Richard Nixon, as "See-No-Evil, Hear-No-Evil, and Evil."

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"max_user_connections"

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Only connect. - E.M. Forster

Shahryar's picture

but it came back

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

saw that '92' members were logged in, about 30 minutes after the message, FWIW.

(Music City) Mollie
elinkarlsson@WordPress


"The standard of living of the average American has to decline," he said. I don't think you can escape that."--Paul A Volcker, during Congressional testimony, October 1978
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.

some 173 "Users online" last night at the height
of Alpha's live-blogging election results, and I
know I frequently saw 120, even 130+ during the day yesterday.

Not sure why we're getting the message, just
that we're getting it. I only got it once then
things went back to normal.

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Only connect. - E.M. Forster

gulfgal98's picture

I can read your post now. Wink

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Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?

“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy

I finally posted a comment on your OT (smile)?

I'm still trying to decide what I think about the
"Trump phenomenon" - bug or a feature sort of
cogitation.

Thank you for tackling the topic today in a
very well written essay. I do appreciate it.

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Only connect. - E.M. Forster

a Catastrophe for Working Families, African-Americans, and Latinos
From counterpunch today, oof!

[...] In the early 1990s, chairing the Democratic Leadership Council, Bill Clinton ushered in the centrist, triangulating New Democratic Party, explicitly to be more business-friendly—and to attract the financial support of corporate America. Wall Street supported his 1992 campaign handsomely, and Bill Clinton became the first president under the new banner. Hillary Clinton was at his side, a de facto minister-without-portfolio.

When he appointed Robert Rubin of Goldman Sachs as Secretary of the Treasury Department, Clinton established a precedent. For the next 24 years every Administration would find Wall Street executives to serve in the position. The New York banks became the primal clients of the New Democratic Party.

But the working families of America and the African-American and Hispanic communities—the party’s historic constituencies—were betrayed and abandoned, deprived of effective representation in Washington. The Clintons’ political campaigns over the next decades became monumental hypocrisies, Bill donning sunglasses to play his saxophone for Arsenio Hall, Hillary visiting black churches to hug the parishioners. They speak warmly to the traditional constituencies with carefully scripted political rhetoric, currying their favor, depending on them for electoral victory, but effectively obscuring the truth of their betrayal. [...]

Today the Wall Street banks are larger and more powerful than ever, and Mr. Holder has returned to Covington Burling. President Obama, however—of the New Democratic Party—has provided no similar relief to the brutalized working families and communities of color. Their struggles continue, the crime and welfare laws have not been repealed, and the title of a recent study tells the tragic truth: During Obama’s Presidency Wealth Inequality has Increased and Poverty Levels are Higher.

Huh! Maybe "we can call ourselves" The Old Democratic Party. Wink

Peace

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enhydra lutris's picture

took to the streets.

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Shahryar's picture

crazy work thing going on. Normally the reports I work on have about 80 tables. This one has over 600 so I'm totally out of it except for these occasional replies. My boss, shaharazade, will also be busy.

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