The Monsters of Israel
Obviously the horrific situation in Gaza didn't happen by accident, but you may not realize just how planned it was.
The demographer Arnon Sofer of Haifa University is the architect of the current isolation of Gaza. In 2004, he advised the government of Ariel Sharon to withdraw Israeli forces from within Gaza, seal the territory off from the outside world, and simply shoot anyone who tries to break out. “When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe,” Sofer told an interviewer in the Jerusalem Post (11 November 2004); “Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.” He added that “the only thing that concerns me is how to ensure that the boys and men who are going to have to do the killing will be able to return home to their families and be normal human beings.”
How can anyone defend a policy like that? A policy of the Nazis?
It turns out, it's quite simple.
In an interview by Hadashot TV news early Monday afternoon, when the death toll in Gaza stood at 18, MK Avi Dichter, who chairs the powerful Foreign Affairs and Defense committee, brushed aside a question about the prospect of the number of dead mounting and Palestinians storming the border.“[Security forces] won’t let anyone put soldiers, and certainly not civilians, in danger,” he said. “The IDF has enough bullets for everyone. I think that ultimately, the means that the IDF prepared, whether non-lethal, or if needed, lethal, in cases where it’s justified by the open-fire regulations — there’s enough ammunition for everyone.”
I guess it helps that the people being shot aren't actual human beings.
You know, just like the Jews weren't human beings to the Nazis.
Meanwhile, just outside the new embassy, Palestinian demonstrators in Jerusalem were brutally repressed by Israeli forces.MEE witnessed dozens of unarmed Palestinians beaten and arrested by Israeli security forces outside the embassy, eliciting cheers from Israeli demonstrators who came out to support the embassy’s opening.
“Burn them”, “shoot them”, “kill them”, the Israelis chanted.
Meanwhile, former Israeli army spokesman Peter Lerner complained on social media, implying Palestinian deaths in Gaza were an attempt to rain on Israel’s parade.
Comments
If what Israel is looking for
is to be hated by the world they're doing a damned fine job of inspiring that, at least for me they are. Sorry, but there it is - act like a monster, expect to be treated like one then.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Some sick shit from the Onion
https://www.theonion.com/idf-soldier-recounts-harrowing-heroic-war-story...
IDF Soldier Recounts Harrowing, Heroic War Story Of Killing 8-Month-Old Child
Yesterday 1:26pmSEE MORE: WORLD
JERUSALEM—Describing the terrifying yet valiant experience to his fellow battalion members, Israel Defense Forces soldier Yossi Saadon recounted Tuesday his harrowing, heroic war story of killing an 8-month-old Palestinian child during a violent attack against protesters. “It was a heart-pounding experience—there was smoke and gunfire all around me, and I made a split-second decision to hurl that canister of tear gas at the encroaching infant cradled in her father’s arms,” said Saadon to the group of awed soldiers, describing the chills that went up and down his spine as he realized that all he had was his M16 assault rifle and some tear gas to defend himself against the unarmed Palestinian family standing only dozens of yards away. “I could see the whites of the baby’s eyes and hear her terrifying cries, and I knew it was either her or me. And this wasn’t some newborn infant, you know? This was a baby who could probably sit up independently. I was scared, but I acted quickly to throw that tear gas at her and her older sister. And who knows how many lives I saved when I shot the women trying to help her?” At press time, Saadon’s battalion commander informed him that he was submitting his name for the Medal of Valor, the IDF’s highest honor.
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
Twitter thread on this
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
I passed that along to a friend
as being the best thing on the internet in re Gaza.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The definition of Evil!
"Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today
I will never understand how people who had been persecuted and treated like they were could then do the same to someone else. And that someone could defend their actions is another thing I'll never understand. Never.
Powerful essay!
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
it's not the same people, it's the next two generations
who can't see their own actions and rhetoric, when they react to what their parents or grandparents lived through and suffered under. I believe, most of the time the next generations are more protective of their parents' ordeals with regard to their victim hood than the actual victims who survived the holocaust.
I think it's because as a child or grandchild of your parents who had been victims, it's very important to clearly show them on which side they are to show them their love. Sometimes then they end up engaging in rhetoric that is as bad as the one they criticize and their activism ends up to be as 'mean'.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I did not read Snoopydawg's comment
In the same way you did. I read the word "people" as in the historical persecution of the Jewish People. Not necessarily the children and grandchildren of actual victims but rather part of a religious people persecuted for being different.
Why the people in Israel who support killing Palestinians cannot recognize the irony in their hatred is a subject that would benefit from a psychological viewpoint by experts in the field.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
and I didn't mean just the children of actual victims
of the holocaust. I just observed that there are very few German folks, who are born post wwII, who would not by default defend the Jewish population (today as identified equal to Israel's population by the average German) because of their guilt as a nation towards all Jews during the holocaust.
Most Germans can't do that kind of criticism, even if it might be justified to criticize Israel's policies. It's just against the instinct to not want to be on the wrong side AGAIN.
https://www.euronews.com/live
I understood Snoopydawg's comment
To be a question of how the Jewish people could defend Israeli's policies; not how the Germans would defend Israeli policies.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I read Haaretz and have the feeling that
there are Jewish people in Israel who are critical of Israels current political and military activities, if I understood what I read correctly.
It's not me who should make any judgments. I know too little and may misunderstand much.
May be we can put this to rest?
https://www.euronews.com/live
Clearly both viewpoints can exist at the same time
The people in Israel who do not condone the use of violence, and the people who defend it. But neither issue is what you originally commented on in reply to snoopydawg's essay.
As for letting the matter rest, I've begun to notice a pattern here; your assertion that you are "confused" when confronted to litigate the merits of your argument after you yourself contradicted someone else's viewpoint, or essay.
Go figure.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I'm not sure that 'Demographer'
is the right term for Arnon Sofer.
The relevant accreditation agency might want to look into Haifa University.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
I think the demographer got the whole "animals"
thing ass-backwards.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Israel is almost hated as much as Trump.
The only ones supporting Israel at this point is the US.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I've read
that Israel has now killed more unarmed civilians at the Gaza fence than East Germany killed at the Berlin Wall.
Good thing the Nazi's
Didn't have the kind of collaborative agit-prop with the US that Israel does, or we would be reading about how the Jewish people were terrorists killing Germans during the Weimar Republic in our history books.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Oh, slam!
Very good point, Zoe. This is so very true, isn't it? Well done, mate!
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
True, zoebear.
Israel is naturally conflated with Jews, so criticism or outright hatred of the Israeli government and its' murderous policies marks you as anti-Semitic.
How can we even complain? How do we help Palestinians?
Are we just supposed to cry privately about the deaths, injuries, and use of those bullets that shatter limbs?
Do we have to explain how we do not hate anybody of a color or faith, just hate governmental policy before we cry?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Good Question
Personally, while I do advocate for economic boycotts on Israel, I feel reasonably certain that I do not do that out of "anti-semitism". If I were called out on that, I would defend myself, but at some point, I cannot control the words others use to label me.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I know. I know.
It is almost impossible to remark negatively about this genocide without making yourself "for" one versions of the Bible "against" another version of the Bible, and secular belief about murder by anybody at any time without any reason except "Bible" marks you as anti-Semitic, instead of reasonable.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
According to their Bible
As a practicing Buddhist, I'm already going to Hell. But a murderous teaching that sanctifies killing is a way to glory. Go figure.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I didn't know you were Bhudist.
I do know Hindu was transitioned to Buddhism, (as new and improved) that Judaism transitioned to Christianity (as new and improved),
and that anything that helps you get through an event of the day that can't be explained by science or other data, I will be the first person to be happy that your particular belief made you feel better and got you over some hump.
I can't be Buddhist because of that 5th requirement: no alcohol.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Different Teachings
Have different constructs. I know quite a few practicing Buddhists who drink alcohol. I'm more of an occasional social drinker but appreciate the idea to keep the mind pure (hence no alcohol or drugs). In the Buddhist teachings I practice, the focal point has always been to incorporate the Law of Cause and Effect in every area of my life. I've had varying degrees of success with that over the years, but as I get older, it becomes more natural. With or without the glass of wine
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
no alcohol
Not a Buddhism-wide requirement. The only comestibles frowned upon by all Buddhists are meats (i.e., dead animal parts), and even there there's a wide range of opinion depending on which sect or school of Buddhism one is in contact with. There are many such sects/schools within Buddhism.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Buddhists and the Biblical God
Only if you handle the Jewish and Christian Scriptures according to the worst ideas ever to come out of those religions.
Try some of this on for size:
-- Christian Scriptures, Matthew 21:28 - 32 (KJV) source
I would note here that being a Buddhist was and is far less odious than being a "publican" (tax collector) or an "harlot" (prostitute) to a good Sabbath-keeping Jew of Jesus' era (or today).
-- Christian Scriptures, Matthew 7:21 - 23 (KJV) source
I note here that this sounds a lot like the Compassion that Gautama Buddha, Peace be upon Him, instructed his followers about!
-- Christian Scriptures, Matthew 25:34 - 46 (KJV) (both previous blockquotes)
source
Of course, I maintain that when one is discussing the Bible, it better behoves one to read it, rather than thump it! But that's just me.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
The conversations I've had
with both Orthodox Jews and Pastors of the Christian Faith very politely told me that to deny God's existence was a pathway to Hell, which I assumed was a generally held interpretation of their faith.
Many years ago while attending a Presbyterian church in New York City, I did attend bible study classes which required reading parts of the Bible led by the pastor of the congregation. Ultimately though, I could not believe in someone outside myself as my Savior and consequently I left the Church.
However, you are correct in assuming I have never personally read the entire Bible.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Without religion there is no Hell
Is Buddhism a religion or a spirituality guide? I'm not very familiar with it, but for anyone who is religious and tells others that they are going to Hell seems to have missed many points of what religion stands for. I'm surrounded by religious people and I certainly don't care for how they treat others or what they say about them.
Isn't "Judge yee not ... " one of the key points of most religions?
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
judge ye not
spelling corrected
Umm, no. Even the religion whose Scripture that phrase is -- Christianity -- has numerous weasel tunnels around this particular (and worthy!) teaching of its Founder.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Not to mention that Israel merely imitates our own genocide.
We taught the modern world how to do it successfully. It worked great for us. Look at everything we have after we exterminated the people squatting on our rightful lands. Hitler was obsessed with the details of the American genocide. We inspired him.
This is why the US does not criticize Israel. The ends must justify the means.
...
Too soon?
At some point, we must own the shadow that is cast over our future. At some point, we must redress it.
@on the cusp Ahh, one of the
Ahh, one of the joys of being Atheist is that I get to tell both sides that they are equally hypocritical and full of shit...
Everyone should join us.
Oh, did I mention we have cookies?!?!
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Caitlin has some good points on this, Zoe
Fifteen Thoughts on Israel'
Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.
Sorry
But that link didn't work for me
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Try this...
Fifteen Thoughts About Israel
Caitlin had some very good points
A non-stop disruption campaign in the Middle East. Who do you suppose benefits from that?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
But many prominent American industrialists
did support the Nazis and other Fascist regimes, including Ford, GM, Prescott Bush, Allen Dulles, Charles Lindbergh, Joseph Kennedy, John Rockefeller, and Andrew Mellon among others.
And of course, the banks were supporting both sides, just as they do today. The biggest criminal enterprises in the world are the big banks.
We continue to repeat history because the same causes are behind all these wars and unnecessary killing of innocent civilians, be they Jews or Palestinians or any other persecuted group. In the end, it is all about the concentration of money and power.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
The more things change, the more they remain the same.
[Corporations are] private governments unaccountable to the citizens of any country yet possessing tremendous influence over the course of war and peace in the world.
This anti-Israel smear propaganda
falls apart the second one asks, “Well, why doesn’t Egypt open its border with Gaza?”
Because of a “demographer” at a school in Tel Aviv? Really???
"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush
What has Egypt's immigration policies
Have to do with Israeli soldiers shooting at unarmed civilians?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
@Anja Geitz absolutely nothing,
absolutely nothing, just another misdirection to shift the focus of the discussion.
As far as red herrings go this one isn't working, they need to try harder.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
red herrings
That red herring is so old and rotten that it doesn't even count as surströmming any more!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Nothing
Maybe worse than nothing.
Egypt recently gave Israel permission to bomb militants in the north Sinai.
Your statement makes no sense
Read it again
It blows a giant hole in your narrative large enough to drive a Great March Of Return through.
Your story says that the current plight of the Gaza residents was planned by a Tel Aviv “demographer” way back in 2004 but the Erez crossing on the Egypt-Gaza border remained open until after the Hamas terrorists took over the Gaza Strip years later. Egypt unilaterally closed it and Israel played no part in that decision because all sovereign states — including both Israel and Egypt — get to decide who can cross the borders into their country. So no way could your story possibly be true. It’s propaganda.
"Please clap." -- Jeb Bush
On the contrary
Actually the only thing it proves is that Arnon Soffer was prescient.
Everything he said has come to pass.
Is there enough evidence that I could produce that would convince you that this is true?
Or is this a matter of faith?
Great point.
"Sovereign states — including both Gaza and the West Bank — get to decide who can cross the borders into their country."
Thanks for pointing that out.
They also have the right to sail
into international waters from their coasts.
Indeed.
And reap the profit from any offshore resources such as gas and oil: Palestinian oil and gas wealth under Israel's control
Israel is a rogue nation.
With a murderous criminal regime. It saddens me that the United States continues to militarily and financially support the heathen thugs that run Israel.
thugs
With our tax dollars!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Ironic that they're using your health care money,
which could buy a national health system for all Americans, for use on... hyperactive mobile death panels? used against other people in their own other people's countries.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Egypt
is the 2nd largest recipient of US foreign aid,mostly military aid, after Israel.
Additionally, the people of Gaza have sympathy for the opponents of the ruling cabal in Egypt. It's a win-win for the rulers of Egypt.
Finally, the Palestinians in Gaza aren't claiming the right of return to Egypt. Their bulldozed and buried homes are in Israel.
Just to add, if I may, something I'm currently listening to:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ekG-u5tC0d8
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Media is happily smokescreening for Israel.
https://www.snopes.com/news/2018/05/15/palestinian-protesters-gaza-unite...
Note how they don't make any judgement whatsoever on whether or not the protestors are Hamas.
They just tell us that "Israeli Fact Checkers" say they are. And the counter side is of course presented by a "Freelance Journalist"
See, they aren't LYING... they're just conflating the protestors "Alleged" ties with their Actual goal of Destroying the only democracy in the middle east, and wiping out all Jews!
/Snark
Edit: and read the last paragraph. They quite happily use the passive voice. Hundreds of protestors were shot... But they conveniently leave out that it was 100% Israel DOING THE FUCKING SHOOTING!
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I think this started
when Israeli forces blockaded Arafat. It pushed him to try to negotiate finally, but the Israelis were fed up with him. When his power waned and negotiations did finally start there was this whole "no negotiation as long as there is violence" stance from Israel. Things would calm down. Then the IDF would bomb an apartment building killing men, women and children to get at a Hamas leader implicated in previous violence. Reason? Israel has a right to defend herself. Great uproar and demonstrations. Once again no negotiations as long as there is violence, things would calm down, negotiations would start and then the IDF would bomb another building, killing civilians, sometimes with no Hamas leader there. Over and over. I couldn't figure out why.
Re-read "1984"
"The object of power is power".
There is no justice. There can be no peace.