Remember Bernie Bros Dead-Enders?
My how the world has changed.
It just changes more slowly than we'd like.
Consider these recent headlines:
TheWeek: Bernie Sanders has conquered the Democratic Party
Politico: How the Bernie Wing Won the Democratic Primaries
NYMagazine: Bernie Sanders Is Quietly Building a Digital Media Empire
Whether you agree with those articles or not, the fact is that the way Bernie and his supporters are being reported has totally flipped, and this hasn't happened because Bernie and his crew have changed their agenda.
Let's go back two years and look at how the media viewed those stubborn Bernie Bros.
May 18, 2016, DailyBanter: Bernie Sanders Refuses To Admit There's a Problem With His Fanatical Supporters
May 18, WashPost: Why the Sanders movement is just about dead
May 19, TheNation: Bernie Sanders Is Hurting Himself by Playing the Victim
June 3, NYTimes: Bernie’s Last Stand
June 8, TheSlate: Among the dead-enders in Bernieworld, Sanders is still the next president and Clinton is a fate worse than Trump
June 13, PoliticsCentral: Diehard Sanders supporters drifting away from political reality
July 12, NBC: The Bernie Sanders Revolution Is Dead, Long Live the Revolution
July 28, Politico: Hillary donors to Bernie supporters: Shut up
Two years ago you Bernie Bros were crazy, violent, detached from reality, and most of all doomed to irrelevance.
Even as late as last July, Joy Reid was still using the term "dead-ender" when referring to Bernie supporters.
Sanders dead enders who asserted that Trump was a better option than Her will discover that irony is in fact *not dead. https://t.co/YbJFnwePPt
— Joy Reid (@JoyAnnReid) July 16, 2017
There's just one problem for Joy - people were starting to use "dead-ender" to refer to Joy and her crew.
Hillary Dead-Enders Are As Dumb As Science-Deniers
HILLARY DEAD-ENDERS CONDEMN BERNIE SANDERS APPEARANCE AT WOMEN’S EVENT
Remember Verrit, the website for Hillary Clinton superfans? It launched last September.
This is the headline from February: The Pro-Hillary Site Nobody Asked for or Used Is Rebooting
Hillary and her supporters were always about identity and personality.
Bernie and his supporters were always about policy and ideas.
Or to put it another way...
The movement that Bernie started is bigger than Bernie. Her, on the other hand, is about nothing but Her.
That is why Bernie Bros are now more popular than ever, while Hillary fans are just bitter.
Bernie supporters have something to fight for. Hillary fans only have someone.
Comments
Thanks for the picture!
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
You're veery welcome
And if anyone is looking for something unique to give MOM for mom's day this photo and others are available for purchase.
Snoopydawgs' Photography
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Those are beautiful pictures!
We have so many talented people here
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Exactly. Although many
too many still hide
in the shadows, afraid to Out themselves as the Bernie supporters they are. Way too few of us dare speak it loudly, the others afraid to lose one or more of their FB friends. Gawd forbid!
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Yes. . . . .
I agree with this:
"However, that doesn't mean that the progressive insurgency that is going on isn't real . . . ."
I believe it IS real. However, the function of the Democratic Party historically is take the REAL desire for change on the part of the population--the real progressive insurgencies of the past--and find ways to channel it into nothingness, kind of like a lighting rod attracts lightning, and channels it safely into the ground. Thus, people vote for Democrats expecting change . . . and little or nothing ends up changing. Again, and again, and again this has happened during the last three decades.
The definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.
Absolutely correct!!
All the sources spouting this new meme either have their noses firmly up the crack of the political establishment or ARE the political establishment.
Exactly WHY have they changed their story about Bernie? No one knows for sure.
"Whether you agree with those articles or not, the fact is that the way Bernie and his supporters are being reported has totally flipped, and this hasn't happened because Bernie and his crew have changed their agenda."
However, there is always the possibility that Bernie has cut deals with the establishment behind the scenes to play along with them and not touch certain sacred cows of theirs. Given his record of capitulations to the Dem establishment and betrayal of his supporters and countless numbers of small donors in 2016--i.e., his ultimate role as a "sheep herder"--I wouldn't exclude such a possibility.
In politics, it ALWAYS pays to be suspicious and skeptical. Always.
In fact, on a related note, I believe it was Jefferson that said that our system of government is not based upon trust, but upon DISTRUST. That's why the whole concept of "separation of powers" and "checks and balances" theoretically was set up in the first place.
At 70-some years old
Bernie is suddenly going to sell out?
Not likely.
No. Any future betrayal will come from a different direction.
Probably from the people around him or from misunderstanding what Bernie is.
Bernie isn't a peacenick a revolutionary or a real socialist
He’s pushing the RUSSIA! shit as hard
as his geriatric old ass can push. That’s really screwed up. And telling.
I refuse to get in that line.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I'm suggesting that he probably has ALREADY
sold out.
You don't know what kind of leverage the powers-that-be have over him. Whether he's been blackmailed by the threat of the loss of something he holds dear, like his wife's freedom, his position in the Senate (Chris Hedges predicted early in 2016, while Bernie was still a contender for the nomination, that Bernie would capitulate to the Dem Party if for no other reason than he has a deal with the Democrats that if he doesn't oppose them on certain issues, they won't run somebody against him in Vermont to challenge his Senate seat), his public reputation, the safety of himself or his family members.
I'm suggesting that Bernie is already very compromised. I'm not sure exactly how or by what, but if it's true what Podesta apparently said about the DNC having "leverage" over him, then there's already substantial evidence of that. Coupled with the way that he changed his tune about contesting the Dem convention in 2016 after he met with Obama at the White House (the same Obama that ordered spying on the Trump campaign), I suggest that there is quite a lot of evidence, both circumstantial and direct, that the powers-that-be have something over him.
Need I go on?
It looked he was threatened and his life and that of his wife
had been in danger. If what he did can be called a sell-out, then it was an extorted sell-out. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise. The deep state would have done to him the same thing as they did to others. Destroy him and kill him.
If I were in the US, I think I would support him again. Call me a Bernie sister. If he wants to run for President I think he needs to work on his foreign policy agenda, a lot. So far I don't like that one. Other than that, I don't see anyone worth engaging for and just wouldn't vote. And I am ready to change my mind at any moment. Flip-flopping has become a necessary survival method.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Well, in light of what you've just said . . .
"If what he did can be called a sell-out, then it was an extorted sell-out. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise. The deep state would have done to him the same thing as they did to others. Destroy him and kill him."
What makes you think they won't extort him again in the future if he threatens to "get out of line?" I mean he's already demonstrated he can be compromised. In view of what you've just said, what makes you think he wouldn't capitulate again in the future if he's once again threatened?
So? Every president
since JFK (at least)
has been "leaned on" by "Deep State." Bernie was obviously leaned on during the primary. I would rather have Bernie leaned on than Kamala or Elizabeth or Uncle Joe or...
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
What is accomplished
by a bunch of Berniecrats getting elected when nothing has been done to prevent Deep State from "leaning on" them?
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Bing!
And there is the compelling argument to enable those in power to fuck us in the ass with a baseball bat instead of a 2x4. Either way, you're still bending over so they can continue to fuck you in the ass.
Ouch.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Oh noes, not another one
sorry but that was one bing too many it broke my brain. Lovely microsoft trademark propaganda, I still hate that corporation most of all. Windows is so broken it can never be fixed, or secured. good luck
Merriam-Webster
dictionary.com
Ding is the thing I say all the time:
ding!
wink 2
Can't you do both?
elect some Sanders supporters and work to prevent the Deep State from "leaning on" them/him? The first is working within the system, the other is working outside the system. I think the later is more important, but who knows really how to do it?
https://www.euronews.com/live
bing. It takes both
ways to win.
Elect enough Berniecrats and eventually Deep State has to make choices on who they lean on. Our power, like that of Repubs, is in the numbers. Despite the M$M to the contrary America is center Left, not center-Right.
"We" have to work from within and outside the party apparatus to win back Congress. And by "we" I mean no label (and Dim) progressives.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Was there any President, who didn't capitulate
- as you call it - and did survive his resistance to the extortion of the Mafia Deep State players?
https://www.euronews.com/live
I think that the Deep State did threaten him
but not with his life. Probably more like his cabinet positions or his job in congress. If that's the case then I would like to believe that I would go for it anyway and if I lost, then I'd retire with dignity and retire.
This is what would happen if this world was saner ....
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
With all the spying they do
And collecting data on everyone, I wouldn't be surprised if they blackmailed him with something.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Yep, something was dug up, etc.
I also am most inclined to believe he was (and still is) being blackmailed. The change in him was way too sudden and way too radical. To me, it seemed like a car traveling 80 mph that suddenly was shifted into reverse gear.
Remember, the pilfered DNC emails even stated that they had "leverage" on him. I doubt they were lying about it.
Not only do I wonder
If Bernie was blackmailed, I wonder if the power elite are in an information war with each other, getting "leverage" over their enemies using their NSA data mining tentacles.
A lot less risky than killing your enemy, I suppose.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
No halos
Yes, the first thing I wondered about was whether some data-bank in Utah had particularly spicy details of a phone conversation or text ... or something. I'm sure Obama's FBI had access (legally or otherwise) to any of that data. Who can say. After all, the man has probably had political enemies for at least 50 years -- and none of us are sporting halos. We'll probably never know unless Sanders chooses to talk.
Whatever it is, the man seems to have beeen compromised ever since he stood next to Hillary at the Democratic convention ... with a quite visible cut on his face. Damn shaving razors......
Considering the sources, it's obviously intended to
build enthusiasm for the democratic party and steer the discussions into lame or fruitless single payer and minimum wage issues and away from antiwar/anti-imperialism and radical measures against the oligarchy and this political system. The DNC has admitted that Bernie is being used as an "outreach coordinator" and Sanders has never wavered from his stance that the democratic party is the only way to keep the republican right from power.
Well, that has often been the deal, hasn't it?
Roosevelt (and remember, Bernie was always compared to FDR) gave the "little people" progressive economic legislation in the form of the New Deal, while at the same time buying the loyalty and consent of the working people in terms of WWII and the post-war American imperial project.
LBJ did the same thing: He gave the people Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, and the Great Society, while at the same time taking them into Viet Nam.
In fact, even in ancient Rome, just because the "little people" finally succeeded in getting an actual seat at the table in terms of domestic policies, it appears that that did nothing to stop Rome's wars of imperial conquest/expansion . . . which ultimately ended up undermining any democracy the people had succeeded in achieving.
Sanders has never wavered from his stance that the democratic
. . .party is the only way of keeping the Republican right from power.
What he's failed to explain when he's done this is that the democratic party is the "Democratic right."
So, one rejects one right wing party, by opting to place another one in its stead. (Supposedly, one of them is "worse" than the other . . . or so we've been trained to believe, because of things like transgender bathrooms, "God, guns, and gays," abortion issues, and all-round identity politics.)
Yeah, Bernie, great strategy there. You've got me convinced . . . . .
"Because if you don't vote for a lizard,
the wrong lizard might get elected."
Douglas Adams had his number, bigtime.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
And it operates
as such.
And why it doesn't work.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I agree
and after all Bernie is on the Russia Russia Russia bandwagon. I believe he has also stated that the 2016 primary was fair and hasn't said a word about being cheated, so that leaves a few scenario's 1) He has already made some deals and is sheep herding. 2) He is going along with the program and using the Dem party to get elected so that he can try and change things for the little people or 3) He's just a dumbass. I would like to believe 2 but my gut feeling is 1 followed by 3 .
I vote for option number 1.
BTW, if Bernie had run as an independent or Green in 2016, and attacked the Democratic Party's/Hillary's corruption and fraud, he would have destroyed the Democratic Party's role as a viable entity for years. He would have gained enough of the popular vote (10%?, 15%?, 20%?, 25%?) such that Trump would have had a landslide electoral win, and the Democrats would likely have only won states like California, Mass., and New York.
Granted, he probably would not have won the presidency, and he probably would have sacrificed a lot personally and/or professionally had he done so, especially by the time the corporate media attack dogs got through with him, his fellow Dem Congressmen retaliated against him, and the DNC set out to take him out in Vermont. (At the very least, the Dems would have blamed him for Donald Trump's win.). But he would have dealt a very, very damaging blow to the Democratic Party, and significantly weakened the power of the duopoly, perhaps permanently.
But the fact is, he was and will always be a sheep dog for the Democratic Party. And all his talk about progressive, class-based change is the shtick he has used to fulfill that function.
Hindsight is 20/20.
There's no reason
to believe Bernie could have run better as an Indie (and destroyed the Dim party in the process). Bernie likely would have been treated as a Ross Perot celebrity candidate, and a spoiler. Bernie ran in 2016 to set himself up for 2020. He had absolutely zero clue he'd have a chance to beat Her Highness, no one more surprised than him he still was actually in the race after the Ides.
But, yeah... 2020 could very well be his 2016 moment. Instead, it looks like he's going to waste it by hanging with the Dims. Bernie could win the whole enchilada by running as an Indie, all kinds of Berniecrat coat tails, and give a possible fatal blow to the Dim party. Certainly a solid dent! Alas... it looks like he's been leaned on to fall on his sword. Or he chooses to lose. So, again... it's up to us.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
They don't think Bernie and progressives
could overwhelm the democrats in the next 4 years, so they figure the progressives will be neutered, so it's a safe topic, just getting their unbiased creds in.
One thing about Trump, he pissed on every establishment, Koch loving, Grover Norquist stroking republican primary contender and won. Gives hope one day a progressive can do the same.
Agree, don't trust
the bastids, but as
they say, any publicity is good publicity.
I don't know if the Berniecrats I support up here in NY-21, 22 and 24 will win their primaries, but all of them are All In for the cause.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
We are about 3/4's of the way along
on Gandhi's wheel. The ignoring and laughing are past...the beatings continue. The finale is now inevitable.
bing! exactly right.
Some of us BernieBros never stopped believing. And it was never about the man. As Bernie himself said. It was about what Bernie brought to the table. That never went away. Berniecrats now run for offices everywhere, their campaigns built on the same premise.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
And viciously opposed by the DCCC
and their DoD/CIA veteran candidates in the phony primaries. I should say "Judas Goats".
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
True. Our guy up here
in NY-21 is a Bernie-
crat living on $27 contributions or less while the Well Funded schpies from the CIA / DoD live on caviar and champagne. It's the way it's going to be every two years. The Beltway Elite do Not want an infestation of Bernie scum mucking up their Chevy Chase neighborhoods and will be out there running against the dirty hippie anti-war Berniecrats every two years.
But, hey... I got nuthin' but time. No money, but I got time to fight these Elite a$$hats.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I'm curious: In your opinion did
Bernie come through for all those people giving--and often sacrificing--all those $27 contributions, especially when he called the primary process "fair" (when it clearly wasn't) and refused to even comment upon the fraud law suit brought against the DNC??
Do you think he fulfilled his appropriate roles as their "leader" and as an advocate for their interests?
Speaking as one of
those $27 contributors
and rally attendees between Albany and the 'cuse (Syracuse) I was strongly disappointed that he ignored the obvious, disgruntled as everyone else, and would rather he had "crashed the gates" a certain someone wrote about (sorry I bought the book). But, really, what would that have accomplished? "I was robbed!" Hillary and Her DNC ran roughshod over my campaign!" It might have made his supporters happier, but would have accomplished d!ck. And made him look like a sore loser.
But, when I heard his -ahem- -cough- "Endorsement Speech" in Philly I knew the Bern had plans to live to fight another day. I could hear Hillary cringe every time Bernie said, "we Know she supports $15 an hour," "we Know she supports universal health care," "we Know... "
Well, like the rest of us, Bernie knew damn well she did Not support those issues he supported. So, I Knew right then and there that Bernie was still in the game, playing a little rope-a-dope to stay politically alive. Mission Accomplished. Bigly! I suspect though, he will throw that all away by sticking with the party he should have abandoned by now. And that's sad. Becuz I believe he wins 2020 as an Indie. But that's neither here nor there. He may feel some sense of loyalty to the party that goes back long before 2016. Who knows? And in the voice of Lionel, "who cares?" It's not about Bernie. It's about having a chance to crash the gates what's-his-name now so dearly protects. Bernie gave us hope, at least, in 2016. That hope still carries on as hundreds of Berniecrats run for office carrying the same flag. I support their efforts while remembering who started it, who lit this candle. That some Bernie supporters still feel stabbed in the back.... we can't always get what we want. The rest of us carry on.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I think some people get satisfaction
From poking the establishment in the eye through their "resistance". It doesn't actually accomplish anything since those in power control the electoral process but I think the rationale is to not "give up".
Then there are those who believe "resistance" with a capital "R" is possible, ignoring entirely that those in power control the electoral process.
People have a lot of different motivations for their particular belief system.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I'm curious: do you have a single positive thing to say
about anything progressive? All of your arguments seem to be very Democratic in that they (as you said) "find ways to channel it [progressiveness] into nothingness, kind of like a lighting rod attracts lightning, and channels it safely into the ground." What a wonderful metaphor!
It's a lot easier to tear something down than to build something up. Got anything to build on?
We need an organization
whereby small donations can be concatenated and used as matching for candidates that will accept ONLY small donations and matches.
I wouldn't even have to agree with the candidate. My goal is to get the corrupting influence of big money out of politics. I have enough faith in the American public to believe that they eventually will do the right thing if they aren't bombarded every two minutes with slick Madison avenue ads telling them that Down is the new Up.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
I don't know if
"Matching Funds" would
work (becuz who is going to provide them?), but it's a good idea! Our guy here in NY-21 is running as a Berniecrat, having worked on the 2016 Bernie campaign as a paid worker. He accepts only "small donations," however those are defined, and most are $27 or less. But, yeah, matching funds would be nice.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Small donors like me.
A central organization (non-profit) takes small donations from people like me (and hopefully you) and donates them to Congressional candidates who have taken the small donation pledge in proportion to those donations they have received directly. That's what I mean by "matching". I would argue for this on a non-partisan basis. Democrats, Greens, Independents, even Republicans and Libertarians. If you got onto the ballot and reject big money {the proposed non-profit) will contribute based on what you raised on your own if you eschew big dollars. No political test. The idea is to remove the corruption of big dollars and let the grassroots control the parties. ALL the parties. No ideological test. Let the voters do that.
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
Sure is a lot of negativity on here today.
What are you negators trying to convince us of? That the deck is stacked in favor of those who consider themselves to be elite? Done: so what? That they change the rules to favor themselves? Of course they do. That our planet is headed to hell in a hand basket? Done and dusted. You got anything else to say?
Oh, yeah. One guy in the whole entire system comes along and points at the marks on the cards so he must be a sellout. That one guy articulates responses to the deepest inequities, so of course he MUST be controlled by the power mad manipulators of mankind: he MUST be because everyone else is. In that case, so are you. What are you REALLY arguing about? Many of those who express themselves on this site agree on the responses to the inequities that Bernie articulates. Is that what you are really negative about? Do tell.
In addition
to strollingone's comment, please tell everyone what you suggest.
"We're all doomed! The End is Nigh!" get's kind of pointless, unless you go 100% all-in and are carrying a sign on a downtown street.
If you are carrying that sign this afternoon, then you get a pass for dedication. Otherwise, you have to suggest something. Just being too cool to participate is for teenagers.
Really?
Do you actually believe that personal insults like “teenagers” is going to convince anyone to start voting for democrats? Don’t you know by now that insulting people for not agreeing with you doesn’t bring them to your side?
First off, no I really do *not* have to have an alternative before I am allowed to reject a *false* solution that accomplishes nothing, and is actually counterproductive. I really don’t. I reject false political rhetoric, because it’s false. There doesn’t have to be an alternative. There isn’t one, actually. Once I know it’s false, I’m just done.
That’s like saying you cannot chose not to watch reality tv because it’s dumb and a waste of time, you must participate, you can’t make that choice unless you have a better idea for worthwhile programs on tv. “You have to suggest an alternative, or else you have to watch this show.” Um, no, I don’t. I can just say, that show is bullshit, and turn it off. Politics is reality tv. I don’t have to participate, and I don’t have to offer a better idea either. Turn. It. Off. That’s my better idea.
Anyone trying to tell me that I “have to” either be herded along and buy into electing democrats, or have a better solution, can go pound sand.
Insults do not change anything. In the past few days on here I’ve read that those not following along with that playbook are not good citizens, are like children, and now teenagers, and so on. What the fuck. This is a nonpartisan site, according to JtC, and that means we do not have to be fucking democrats to post here. We don’t have to carry water for democrats or so-called progressives, or vote, or do a damn thing regarding elections and politics. And we are not required to justify that to you or anyone.
This isn’t daily kos. People here are allowed to have different views. There are even trump supporters here. And the rest of us are allowed to push back when we disagree. Even to you! Gasp.
As for explaining why people choose to voice dissent and disagreement, that’s been answered. Read the comments. It’s been explained many times, many ways. And I’m glad they do. I’ve been staying quiet and keeping my head down for awhile now, but I think it’s time to change that.
In short... why express dissent to the sheepdogging? Simple. When sheep dogs bark and chase, sheep will comply and fall into the herd. But I’m not a sheep. Lots of folks here are not, and simply won’t be herded the way you want everyone to go.
I have chosen to return to participation — on here, not in politics — because I think it’s important that c99% not become a knock off daily kos, dominated and limited to political sheep dogs and “this time for sure, it’s going to work” delusions. I learn so much from the “negative” ones who speak their truth. They belong here as much as anyone else, and I don’t want them pushed out and silenced.
That's not true
Of course there does. Obviously there does. Because if you do nothing then the world marches on like you don't exist.
A very bad comparison. If you don't watch tv, it doesn't matter to you and everyone else. If you don't participate in politics, you will still be impacted by politics every single day.
No one said anything about anyone supporting Democrats. Hell, I voted for Jill Stein. In fact, I've voted Green since 1996.
But that's a hell of a lot different from "there is no solution". Fuck That!
That's just defeatism, and tell me once in your life that defeatism ever did anything good.
What's that supposed to mean?
I don't care what your agenda is, but throwing your hands up in the air is not an agenda. Not caring is not an agenda. At least not one I feel obligated to respect.
Do you know what I hear when someone tells me "there is no alternative"?
Margaret Thatcher. TINA is her creation.
Now you are repeating it, if only by accident. So maybe you can understand why that rubs me the wrong way.
Well that’s fine, I don’t care if you don’t respect me
You don’t have to respect me. Whatevs.
But you still don’t get to tell me I have to participate in the reality tv show called electoral politics. No. I don’t. See? That’s “defeatism” hum? More semi-subtle name calling. Still has no effect.
Look. When something obviously doesn’t work, when it’s clearly false, then it’s just plain silly to keep doing it anyway. But that’s fine, people are obviously free to do silly things, to waste time and money and energy on the next election, and tell themselves they are “doing something” and that gets them through the night. I used to be a true believer in politics as well. So I know how that feels.
The part that bothers me is the added tone, that those of you who like voting on the next season of American Political Idol are better than those of us who don’t do those things. And making clearly false statements that we actually have to vote or have a non-voting solution. Once again, no. We don’t.
Yes I live in this country, and my life is controlled by the powers that be. So is yours. Unfortunately, voting and giving time, money and energy to political corporations doesn’t do one thing to change it.
Since we’re chatting, hows about we turn it around. You have to show some solid evidence that your preferred solution is effective, or you have to stop pushing people to do something that wastes their lives. Hum?
Who says I only have one solution?
I've offered dozens and dozens of alternatives.
How many of them work? It's impossible to say. But needing absolute proof of something being foolproof before endorsing it means that you will never be out in front of anything because it will always be fixed before it'll satisfy you.
You are also implying that I will only support my own solutions. That is not just untrue, but one of the biggest reasons I'm here is to hear alternative ideas. Any idea, even if only partially thought out is more than welcome.
If, on the other hand, this web site had nothing but a bunch of people who believed TINA and everything was hopeless, then I would quickly leave.
Unfortunately, this site is awfully close to that point.
BTW, TINA is what the ruling elite want you to believe.
I don’t know what TINA means
But I firmly believe that what the powers that be want is exactly what you suggest and what you frequently state on here: that everyone hang all their hope on voting, waiting for the next election, picking a horse in the race and cheering them on, channeling all frustration into that rut, and hoping against all evidence that someday, things might get “a little better” — and settling for whatever crumbs they offer in the meantime to keep things going along.
I’ve read your copious writings on here for a long time now, and I honestly don’t recall you putting forth a single idea beyond voting for “progressives” to try to take over/reform the democrats. Which you insist is not just your personal preference but something we all have to do.
So, please, do tell, what other ideas do you have? Who knows, maybe we’ll find something we agree on after all. I’m open to that.
TINA: There Is No Alternative
I have absolutely no doubts in my mind that TPTB want people apathetic and disconnected.
Christ, if you were a kleptocrat in charge wouldn't you want people to just leave you alone to run things and steal people blind?
I wrote a whole series of diaries about ways to reform the economic system back on Orange State.
Ah, ok.
That certainly doesn’t fit me in that case. I’ve already said I think there are plenty of alternatives to the electoral politics show. First being the alternative to Turn it off. Let’s see ... other alternatives to politics ... Go outside. Read good books. Listen to music and dance. Find ways to laugh. Learn new things, go new places. Get together with friends and family, do volunteer work in the community, commit random acts of kindness to strangers, help animals in need. So many things to do.
Think about it. The powers that be — the elite — political leaders, corporate leaders, and the media, ALL push partisan politics as the only way to react to wrongs. There is no alternative... to voting and elections. That’s exactly what they want you to believe! We are taught it from childhood. We have “democracy” so voting is the ONLY way to deal with the issues... just wait and wait and vote and vote .... that’s what they want. That’s why I won’t anymore.
Edit to add: I am neither apathetic nor disconnected. I’m quite engaged and adamant in my view that they are actively fucking with us every single day. Including those bullshit stories about how Bernie has taken over the democrats. I mean seriously, that’s just ridiculous. I fight back by refusing to be manipulated into playing their games on their field. I’ve given my last dollar to politicians. I vote just to leave my ballot blank on those horse races.
I don’t read daily kos anymore, so can you at least summarize your ideas on how to reform the economic system without electing progressive democrats and taking over the dem party? I’m interested in that, but won’t go hunting for it on daily kos, sorry. I was referring to what you write about here.
I'm all about the A.R.S.
That's Arizona Revised Statutes, the laws that we must live under, the laws that affect us most. I really don't give a damn who's President of the US, it doesn't seem to matter. But I'll be damned if I'll boycott elections so that the effing Koch Bros. can write all our state laws. Laws will be made and they will be enforced, I'd like a say in that.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I know Azazello
I will still vote in referendums, as we in AZ do have some access to direct democracy. However, I remember way, way back when, probably it was the late 90s, when AZ voters passed marijuana legalization or decriminalization or whatever it was, and the elected politicians said oh those silly votes, they were confused, and decided to ignore our vote.
I am right there with you on national politics, and I’m afraid I feel the same about the state. The dem party here is useless. 2010 senate race opened my eyes. Remember what happened to the good dem candidates? The progressives. They got steamrolled by the party and “liberals” who blindly endorsed that stupid shit Rodney Glassman. So I am off politicians. That senate race was crushing. Then came Bernie and there I went yet again. Eventually I learn. Bernie was my last hurrah.
How 'bout those Arizona teachers ?
May Day march, Jacome Park, downtown, 4 p.m. Tuesday if you're interested.
I ain't givin' up.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Yeah, good on them
I notice they are not advocating voting for particular politicians. Or waiting on the next election and certain political heros to help them. They are attempting to pressure whoever is in power, regardless of party or ideology. Oh and remember the insane republican wingnut Jan Brewer, who actually vetoed her own party’s republican state legislators on everything until they caved and took the ACA Medicare expansion? I do. Notice how the republicans promised their voters a wall along the border and repeal of the ACA, and delivered none of it? Interesting isn’t it? Almost like it really doesn’t matter which team is in charge this season.
I’m also not “giving up” to lay down and cry. I am actively refusing to be manipulated and herded into ineffective action that costs me time, money, energy, and goes nowhere. I hope you see the difference. Calling it “giving up” is one of those emotional manipulations. No one wants to be essentially called a coward or lazy... but I know my mind on this and those tactics won’t work for me. Not anymore.
It's not a tactic.
I'm not trying to manipulate you or anyone. I'm just trying to explain why I do what I do,
that's all. Peace.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Cool, glad to hear that
I think I’ve just gotten fed up with the scolding from too many people on here advocating that participation in electoral politics is the only good and right thing to do — TINA!! Hahaha — and the ongoing attempts to shame those of us who don’t buy what they’re selling. So yeah, I’m on high alert and calling it out. But I know that’s not you. Good to see you, and thank you for responding.
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