Remember Bernie Bros Dead-Enders?

My how the world has changed.
It just changes more slowly than we'd like.
Consider these recent headlines:

TheWeek: Bernie Sanders has conquered the Democratic Party

Politico: How the Bernie Wing Won the Democratic Primaries

NYMagazine: Bernie Sanders Is Quietly Building a Digital Media Empire

Whether you agree with those articles or not, the fact is that the way Bernie and his supporters are being reported has totally flipped, and this hasn't happened because Bernie and his crew have changed their agenda.

Let's go back two years and look at how the media viewed those stubborn Bernie Bros.

May 18, 2016, DailyBanter: Bernie Sanders Refuses To Admit There's a Problem With His Fanatical Supporters
May 18, WashPost: Why the Sanders movement is just about dead
May 19, TheNation: Bernie Sanders Is Hurting Himself by Playing the Victim
June 3, NYTimes: Bernie’s Last Stand
June 8, TheSlate: Among the dead-enders in Bernieworld, Sanders is still the next president and Clinton is a fate worse than Trump
June 13, PoliticsCentral: Diehard Sanders supporters drifting away from political reality
July 12, NBC: The Bernie Sanders Revolution Is Dead, Long Live the Revolution
July 28, Politico: Hillary donors to Bernie supporters: Shut up

Two years ago you Bernie Bros were crazy, violent, detached from reality, and most of all doomed to irrelevance.
Even as late as last July, Joy Reid was still using the term "dead-ender" when referring to Bernie supporters.

There's just one problem for Joy - people were starting to use "dead-ender" to refer to Joy and her crew.
Hillary Dead-Enders Are As Dumb As Science-Deniers
HILLARY DEAD-ENDERS CONDEMN BERNIE SANDERS APPEARANCE AT WOMEN’S EVENT

Remember Verrit, the website for Hillary Clinton superfans? It launched last September.
This is the headline from February: The Pro-Hillary Site Nobody Asked for or Used Is Rebooting

Hillary and her supporters were always about identity and personality.
Bernie and his supporters were always about policy and ideas.
Or to put it another way...

The movement that Bernie started is bigger than Bernie. Her, on the other hand, is about nothing but Her.
That is why Bernie Bros are now more popular than ever, while Hillary fans are just bitter.
Bernie supporters have something to fight for. Hillary fans only have someone.

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60 users have voted.

Comments

The Aspie Corner's picture

Ideas may not die, but they are ignored for profit and property.

End the wars? Nope. Can't have that. Defense contractors need their big fat paychecks on the blood and backs of brown people overseas.

Single Payer? Nope. The pharma/hospital/insurance rackets are too busy suppressing real medicine in favor of the ever profitable 'disease and pain management'. We could have had it if Medicare was enacted as intended, but Repigs and Dems, being whores for insurance companies even back then, said no.

Medicare? Social Security? Obamacare already partially privatized it. Same with Medicaid through the Medicaid expansion. And every single adminisrtation after FDR has looted Social Security to pay for unnecessary wars and wealth coddling bullshit like tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires who already pay no taxes anyway.

Education? Oh please. That's for rich white kids. The rest of 'Murica's kids can go and work 12 hours a day chained to a desk like kids in Honduras do.

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15 users have voted.

@The Aspie Corner
Front line defense: A rising tide lifts all boats
That worked from 1980 until OWS.

Second line of defense: This is the best you can hope for
That defense was breached by Bernie Bros.

Those first two levels were media driven. The media has been discredited on every level.

Third line of defense: Gilded Age level of corruption
This is the toughest nut to crack, and it will take multi-year efforts on several levels.
But it can be done (see Progressive Era).

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35 users have voted.

@gjohnsit
DCCC and Hillary

Heading into the 2018 midterms, with Democrats hoping to take back the House of Representatives and even make a run at the Senate, the party has spent more than $2 million worth of campaign resources on payments to Hillary Clinton’s new group, Onward Together, according to Federal Election Commission filings and interviews with people familiar with the payments.

The Democratic National Committee is paying $1.65 million for access to the email list, voter data, and software produced by Hillary for America during the 2016 presidential campaign, Xochitl Hinojosa, a spokesperson for the DNC, told The Intercept. The Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee has paid more than $700,000 to rent the same email list.

Clinton is legally entitled to rent her list to the party, rather than hand it over as a gift, but in 2015, Barack Obama gave his email list, valued at $1,942,640, to the DNC as an in-kind contribution.

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39 users have voted.
Benny's picture

@gjohnsit I'm not on that list, or if I am, it is a really old list.

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10 users have voted.

One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--Tennyson

Meteor Man's picture

Or maybe Comeback Grandpa. Gotta give Bernie credit for sticking to his guns. The battle for the soul of the Democratic Party is an uphill struggle, but nobody is doing more than Bernie to make it happen. I'm especially interested in how Bernie's media empire plays out and if it could be a template for progressives inside and outside the Duopoly structure. Here's hoping Jimmy Dore, Chris Hedges et. al. can get the issue coverage Bernie is getting.

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39 users have voted.

"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn

JekyllnHyde's picture

@Meteor Man


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38 users have voted.

A riddle wrapped in a mystery inside an enigma

Thumb's picture

@Meteor Man This map gives me hope:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/warren-lynch/the-ongoing-comprehensive-ma...

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2 users have voted.

"Polls don't tell us how well a candidate is doing; Polls tell us how well the media is doing." ~ Me

Bollox Ref's picture

is discovering a thing or two about irony, given recent revelations.

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29 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

Benny's picture

@Bollox Ref

So far all she has learned has been from the Clinton campaign: admit to some wrong doing, then when caught with more baggage, make a smokescreen using Russia or Bernie Bro technocrats. I think the thing with Reid is not going to go that well for her ambition.

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26 users have voted.

One equal temper of heroic hearts, Made weak by time and fate, but strong in will. To strive, to seek, to find, and not to yield.--Tennyson

Amanda Matthews's picture

@Benny

The strange controversy surrounding MSNBC anchor Joy Reid took another turn Wednesday evening after her attorney said the Federal Bureau of Investigation has opened an investigation into whether online accounts belonging to her had been hacked, resulting in the surfacing of controversial remarks being ascribed to Reid that she says are fake.

“We have received confirmation the FBI has opened an investigation into potential criminal activities surrounding several online accounts, including personal email and blog accounts, belonging to Joy-Ann Reid,” said her lawyer, John H. Reichman, in a statement provided by MSNBC. “Our own investigation and monitoring of the situation will continue in parallel, and we are cooperating with law enforcement as their investigation proceeds.”

http://variety.com/2018/tv/news/joy-reid-attorney-fbi-investigation-hack...

This is getting interesting.

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9 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

strollingone's picture

@gjohnsit @Amanda Matthews

got caught again.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@strollingone

say. The ‘they’re’ being people like the crazed Hilbots at TOP.

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5 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews I don't know if it's valid or not

https://www.fastcompany.com/40563570/the-internet-archive-rejects-msnbc-...

But if you read down to the update it seems to say IA was possibly hacked.

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4 users have voted.

@Snode Yes, the IA was hacked, and so was Bibliotheca Alexandrina...and so were the other archive sites...all of them, by Russians, to smear some 'nobody'.

http://web.archive.bibalex.org/web/19960101000000-20181231235959*/http:/...

Or...considering she's already done the fake mea culpa for similar, not too long ago, she's just not REALLY the person the cult-of-personality/hero-worshipers have crafted in their minds who they think she is. That is the simplest, most logical, but-idolizers-refuse-to-accept answer.

In fact, none of these people are...they don't live in the same world most of us do; they just market themselves as such, pretend, and spout out the stuff they want the audience to regurgitate.

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@ChezJfrey I just threw it out there, because mostly I'm ignorant. With multi billion dollar internet companies guarding their websites with buck ninety eight security and fire wall software losing 20 - 30 million peoples information, I wondered why IA and any other website is exempt from being hacked. There was a discussion here:

https://caucus99percent.com/content/internet-has-killed-trust

that was one of those really big questions about the internet because of what it means and how fast it's intruded into our lives. I don't have cable and really didn't know who Reid was, other than a talking head, until lately. And don't really care.

I went to the site you marked but don't know what you would have me do. Clicking on the blued dates gives "Resource Not Available" messages. So, anyway, I'll ask you, is the internet expert quoted in the article valid, or are these sites really unhackable? 'Cause that's where I was going.

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@Snode "Oh Please.." was directed at the BS claim, not you. Just so you know Smile

Anyway, that "expert" claim is BS. Here's why...using quotes from the article:

Five months ago, we found evidence Joy Reid’s now-defunct blog, The Reid Report, was breached after a review of suspicious activity.

...his team “discovered that login information used to access [Reid’s] blog was available on the Dark Web and that fraudulent entries–featuring offensive statements–were entered with suspicious formatting and time stamps.”

In December, shortly after the review, Ms. Reid’s attorney wrote to archive.org and Blogger.com to advise them that the blog had been compromised, and that the pages appearing in the Wayback Machine archive included fraudulent posts.

That's not how any of the web archiving stuff works; their own words and "discoveries" actually discredit themselves. The web archiving is done with 'scrapers' in real-time AT THE TIME OF THE PAGE CONTENT back in those previous years, contemporaneously. In other words, back in 2006/2007/2008 there were automated scapers running, that troll all the various sites and pages, grab the content, and store it in the archive databases. What they are claiming, is that several months ago ("five months ago...discovered breach") some fraudulent posts were crafted with faked timestamps, "The letters detail the evidence that many of the blog posts were made up, including the times posted (times when Ms. Reid hosted her radio show)". Those alleged "fake" posts were not what was archived; they can't be, because the archived pages were obtained over 10 years ago, not a few months ago.

These "experts" seem to be under the delusion that the archiving just goes out immediately and grabs what's out there today; they don't. They grab what was there "today" albeit in this case, that "today" would have been a day back in 2007...or, rather, if they really are "experts," they are simply lying to sell a story that Reid and crew want you to believe.

So, that leaves hacking the archive itself and changing the database . However, what are the archive's practices and backup strategies? They undoubtedly pull a full backup, periodically, and if one hacks the current, and a backup made tomorrow, yeah, they're both "fraudulent" now. But, do they maybe make a year backup of each year, put it offline and retain, as part of their practices? Quite possibly, and if that's the case, they backed up their whole 2007 data, back in early 2008, and tucked it away, offline and inaccessible to hackers. If so, they can then simply compare that data, to what they currently have showing for a site, and compare. If they match, then it wasn't hacked. I don't know, neither to these supposed "experts," but given IA's certainty in their own assessment that it wasn't hacked, I'm betting they do just what I described.

Also, that one archive site isn't the only one. So did these "hackers" hack into every web archive service, in order to smear this one person, who in the grand scheme of things, is really not that important? That's what my other link was to illustrate; there are more. I only supplied one. It is highly improbable that 1: someone would make that effort just to smear Reid, and highly improbable they would be able to gain access/circumvent several different protection/security schemes from all the players in the archive business.

The reason you now see "unavailable" is due to the fact that given the new revelations, and the archive services refusal to take the pages away, Reid's team took another approach -- using robots.txt.

http://www.robotstxt.org/robotstxt.html

Web site owners use the /robots.txt file to give instructions about their site to web robots; this is called The Robots Exclusion Protocol.

robots can ignore your /robots.txt.

This is of course not reliable for processes that simply ignore, but apparently, these archive services run a check, prior to a page review, and if the site is still up, contains the robots.txt file with a 'denial' they will accommodate the request and not display the old content, even though they have it. Reid's people are simply taking advantage of the fact that these archive sites will adhere to the request, even retroactively. This way, she can hide those old posts from people.

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8 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@ChezJfrey

...of how this sort of thing works / is still working.

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3 users have voted.

________________________

While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. — Eugene Debs, 1918

Deja's picture

@ChezJfrey

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1 user has voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

@ChezJfrey for the nuts and bolts explanation. So this "expert" is just laying down a smokescreen. The one thing that boggles me is the size of it. Citicorp probably backs up their systems continuously and has duplicates of the backups. For probably 2, 3 hundred million accounts. But AI is the whole internet (not everything, but enough), that's a huge amount of data. If I understand you, what they store is like a screenshot (?) static, not anything you can interact with, and that would take a lot less space? But since they took a screenshot, their process of capturing the "picture" would have it's own dynamic artifacts from the program they used? that would able to be analyzed by them to be certain it was what they archived?

This going to be a big problem if we can't trust what we think we know.

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1 user has voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@Snode

Daily Beast Suspends Joy Reid Column Over ‘Serious’ Accusations About Past Homophobic Blog Posts

https://www.thewrap.com/daily-beast-suspends-joy-reid-column-were-going-...

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5 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@Amanda Matthews on MSNBC or something. Shows you how well I pay attention. Truthfully, I got her mixed up with the Joy comedian lady on "The View", Whenever I read a quote from Reid, I thought, "Well she could of said it."

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3 users have voted.

just what the world needs. NOT.
Electoral politics for facebook and twitter consumers, because eyeballs not brains. Medicare 4 All! Sure, now the Defense industry and Wall Street are fully invested and ready to be seeking more rent from "healthcare", go on. duh

BOHICA, since 1985. The long arc of history indeed. Defending Israel at any cost, because "never again" wtf? Does he even listen to himself? NOPE, just become what you abhor. And keep talking, blah blah blah, abide the plutocracy rules, yada yada yada, blue wave! LOL please. get real

Bernard "The New Emperor" Sanders, all hail his new clothes! good look

"Does Media Lie?" Bernie Sanders Grills Journalists along with Jim Jeffords, Brian Burns (1985)
heh

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10 users have voted.

anti-ROTC

A student socialist group at City University of New York (CUNY) demanded that the university eliminate the university’s ROTC (Reserve Office Training Corps) program because war-fighters should be fighting war, not be on a college campus. The Young Democratic Socialists of America (YDSA) demanded that ROTC cadets have no business in being on the university campus.

The student group have previously protested against gun rights and demanded for the removal of police officers and the army from the campus.

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21 users have voted.
Hawkfish's picture

...has become the chief cornerstone.
— Psalm 118:22

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15 users have voted.

We may find that we’re all alone
In the dream of the proud.
- Pink Floyd, On the Turning Away

strollingone's picture

@Hawkfish
strolls along.

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5 users have voted.
EdMass's picture

years before he ran.

Meteor Blades and I even hooked up way back in the day to promote the Bernster and his proposed legislation and budgets and positions on ToP.

Despite the site polls, by fiat of the overlord H> was the one...

They're still having the Bern vs Hill wars there. A lengthy piece on the Joy Reid kerfuffle includes the "facts" and lengthy discussion that aside from the RUSSIANS, it was Bernie supporters that were behind all of it.

Nope. Sigh.

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29 users have voted.

" What difference, at this point, does it make?"

Let us count the ways...

H> and Warmongering Corprocrats FTW!

Stop The War!

Bollox Ref's picture

@EdMass
reflects the inchoate nature that is the 'mind' of the owner.

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14 users have voted.

Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

snoopydawg's picture

@EdMass

Russian bots. Nope. I'm not kidding. Some are saying that ever since the ides of March the site has been running more smoothly. We were apparently what made the site so hostile.

Plus the people who used to criticize Barry were probably just Russian bots and that proves that Russia has been messing with the country for much longer than anyone knew.

BTW. This site was created so that we could get our marching orders from Vlad. They are astonished that we can't see that Russia interfered with the election and Vlad is controlling everything Trump does. He should have done more damage to Syria when he bombed it and they are outraged because we spoke with Russia before the bombs went flying. We have been coordinating with Russia since they came to Assad's defense so that our jets and theirs don't collide and start an incident.

IMG_2026.JPG

To summarize what people on ToP are believing, anything that happens that they don't like is because Russia did it. Oh yeah, and Donald Trump is a poopy head.

IMG_2003.JPG

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21 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

@snoopydawg

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Deja's picture

@peachcreek
Someone should suggest that, but one, two, three, NOT ME! Hate that place more than cleaning out some mystery item in the back of the fridge.

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1 user has voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

Deja's picture

@snoopydawg
Since I'm a Russian Bot (was called that on Twitter after warning Puerto Ricans to keep Her scam foundation out - saying to just ask the Haitians), and I'll take your word for it that they call us all Russian bots over at TOP, I'm wondering how I can get my boss, old Pootie, to send me some non GMO food!

Is it like submitting a Help Desk ticket?

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1 user has voted.

"The gatekeepers must change."
Prince

reflectionsv37's picture

@snoopydawg things at TOP are running more smoothly! They have fallen so far!

I keep a regular check on these sites and have been loving the trends.

https://www.quantcast.com/dailykos.com#trafficCard
This site had them ranked at one time as 75th or so, now 477.

https://www.alexa.com/siteinfo/dailykos.com

And this one confirms the seemingly never ending slide into irrelevance with a US ranking of 1013!

This graph says it all!

alexa graph.png

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3 users have voted.

“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush

snoopydawg's picture

@reflectionsv37

Thanks for posting this graphic showing how much further the site has fallen since so many of us left or were kicked off.

The site got a temporary boost right after the ides of March when the Correct the Record people joined up for good, but it keeps falling and now there are so many new names on it, but it looks like they might be made up old time members who went away for awhile and have suddenly decided to start posting again.

But when I look at their history of commenting, they only have 2-3 bars of mojo, no diaries written and no followers and other irregularities. The other thing I noticed is that they seem to take turns commenting in various diaries because one person who I don't remember will make tons of comments in lots of diaries, but then I don't see them again for a week or so. The next day it's someone else who does it.

Is this what is going on over there?

IMG_1830_0.JPG

Unknw

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4 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

zoebear's picture

Whether you agree with those articles or not, the fact is that the way Bernie and his supporters are being reported has totally flipped

The question is why the media is reporting on it at all? You remember the media, right? That gang of malicious mouthpieces for the establishment whose entire raison d'etre is to protect and promote the corporatocracy's goals?

If this were a threat to the establishment, they'd ignore it, or discredit it like they did in the past. So the fact that they are reporting it, or pushing it, makes me highly suspicious that this is just another veal pen disguised as "democracy in action" for the little people.

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24 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

@zoebear I guess I’d be more impressed if this was 2019 and we were in the midst of an election. Aside from that, it’s still a drop in the bucket compared to the priming they’re doing for Joementum 2.0 or whoever the Corp-dem flavor of the week is. And until the media is ready to talk seriously about the screw job Sanders supporters got from the DNC, it’s all hot air to me anyway.

Sorry for the cynicism. I know anything positive is rare. But I also saw how the media turned from treating Sanders supporters if not positively, at least closer to neutral, to regarding them as dangerous deplorables worse than Trump voters. Right now it’s safe to say something nice as long as everyone is expected to vote for the “real” candidates when the time comes.

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QMS's picture

@zoebear The reportage has an end game beyond the present. I feel another wedge traveling down the bowels of the info sack. Usefulness of any and all issues is guided by a new, more effective way to split the peeps. Mind control methods are already thunk out.

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16 users have voted.

@zoebear @zoebear

So the fact that they are reporting it, or pushing it, makes me highly suspicious that this is just another veal pen disguised as "democracy in action" for the little people.

Anything short of overthrowing the existing power structure of this society is veal pen democracy.
You'll get no argument from me about that.
In fact, I believe that a large part of the ruling elite realizes that they have to throw the masses some more crumbs or they will be in a world of hurt, so they might even welcome the progressive grassroots.

However, that doesn't mean that the progressive insurgency that is going on isn't real, and wouldn't make things a little better.
I know that if something isn't done, there will be violence sooner or later. Little people almost never win in those cases. So yeh. I welcome this too.
If it's real, then it can always go further.

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18 users have voted.

@gjohnsit we can forgive each other I hope, I forgive you your optimistic Bay Area views if you forgive me my cynical ones.

Minimum wage in California is what now? Does Bernie still go around bragging about winning the Fight for $15 here? Does he ask what it will be worth in 2020 when it finally does become law? Bernie and the Ds seems they'll do anything and everything except what is always needed, decent wages and decent housing for all. NOW not later. ALL not some. There is enough empty space, there is enough money to solve homelessness overnight. Political will does not exist, it is buried under cash lobbyists. 501c4

Poverty is violence, homelessness is violence, it is already here. Obamavilles are everywhere, tent cities abound. It is already happening for the bottom percents since a long time in California. Normal! HyperNormal why not. Granny in the ditch? Move along granny, move along. This is so fucked up I can't believe Bernie is not doing something extreme here for us. NOPE, that is just not Bernie now. As a millionaire he is fine with maintaining his status quo, ask Lakoff what percent of thoughts are conscious and don't feel bad. We are all human.

how unfortunate

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15 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@eyo

"There is enough empty space, there is enough money to solve homelessness overnight. Political will does not exist, it is buried under cash lobbyists. 501c4.

Poverty is violence, homelessness is violence, it is already here. Obamavilles are everywhere, tent cities abound. It is already happening for the bottom percents since a long time in California"

Obamavilles are spreading all across the country and it's getting much worse. California is being hit harder because of the number of people who lost their homes in last Summer's fires. I read where the Obamaville tent city up around where the fires were was just demolished. This is the only plan that's in motion. Keep kicking people off the land, but don't call it a national emergency. Same thing is happening in Texas after the hurricanes. There are not enough people building new houses for people who were displaced.

But gjohnsit wrote that there are enough empty houses that were foreclosed on to house almost everyone. We watched as millions of people continued to lose their homes after the banks were bailed out. And we watched as the banks continued to commit fraud while Obama did nothing!

Bernie is now talking about creating a jobs program, but so what? The republicans won't pass it nor will Trump sign it. It's safe to say that he's going to do this or that when there is no chance of it passing.

The republicans are in an all out war against the poor and working class and I haven't heard anything from the democrats about what they're doing! Only Bernie's saying something about it.

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12 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

Big Al's picture

@snoopydawg of course, that he knows darn well haven't a chance in hell unless there's a democratic party majority in both Congress and Senate and even that is all an illusion under this duopoly political system.
He's clearly being a sheepdog for the democratic party, again. It's no different now. The issue, on this blog and elsewhere regarding Bernie Sanders, is the democratic party, just like it was two years ago.

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10 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@Big Al

It doesn't matter what Bernie wants to happen if he becomes president because he won't be able to do this as long as the military budget is as high as it is. And he knows that.

I said this same thing during the primary. And I kept asking if people knew about his foreign policies. I didn't get many answers though.

"The issue, on this blog and elsewhere regarding Bernie Sanders, is the democratic party, just like it was two years ago."

Not all of us, BA. There are many of us who see him for who he is. I am quite aware of who he is.

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10 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

@snoopydawg

Caitlin Johnstone a few months ago:

"I do not believe that Sanders was bribed with a new $600,000 summer home as people who can’t be bothered to do ninety seconds of googling sometimes assert. I do not believe that Sanders “sold us out”; he would have to have owned us to sell us. What I absolutely do believe, with an extremely high degree of confidence, is that if Bernie had won, he’d be advancing the exact same deep state agendas that Trump is now. It wouldn’t look the same, it would have a much more lefty-looking spin on it, but America would be amassing troops in Syria and escalating tensions with Russia, just as it is right now. I don’t know how they got to him, but they got to him. And if they got to him now, they would have gotten to him if he’d won."

Simple translation: Bernie is significantly compromised in some way(s) that we cannot quite put our fingers on, although we some of us can certainly "smell" the stinking reality of it.

The link to her whole article is here. It's worth the read:

https://extranewsfeed.com/the-deep-state-has-digested-both-trump-and-san...

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9 users have voted.
Wink's picture

right. Bernie likely was
@SoylentGreenisPeople
"gotten to." And likely by "Deep State" players.
Despite that he has found ways to get his message out there, president or not.
And, she's prolly right, too, about any "choices" he might have been able to make, re. Foreign Policy, had he won. After all, as she says, if "They" leaned on him during the primary, they surely would have leaned on him as president. The same with Trump, apparently. Trump wanted out of Syria. "Deep State" had and has other plans.

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4 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Big Al's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople I think that's just bullshit. His track record from way back certainly doesn't indicate that. He is what he is and always has been since he was a Senator, an establishment insider. If the members of the Senate aren't part of the establishment I don't know who is.

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6 users have voted.
Wink's picture

It's a bunch of Bernies.
@snoopydawg
Get enough BernieBros and Berniecrats elected and there can be change.

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5 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

zoebear's picture

@Wink

By stating that the change we will "achieve" is the change that those in power will allow us to "achieve". Lest you forget that they have the electoral means to elect who they chose to elect.

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2 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

mimi's picture

@Big Al
and what you want is working outside of the system. I guess those who work outside the system are brutally oppressed. You can only support the courage of some of the youngsters that do the real protests now. Most people understand things better than abstract words like imperialism. So they stick to what they understand and not to what for them are abstract word bubbles. I guess.

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6 users have voted.

“Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.” -- Mark Twain

Wink's picture

is as much about "what
@Big Al
kind of Dem party are we going to have" as much as anything else. And as usual, here in my local yokel neck of the woods, there aren't many of us on the Bernie side. Hillary supporters seem to think the Rules of Engagement suddenly changed on Election day, and Her was somehow cheated. They'll still be thinking that in 2020. And beyond. And still blaming BernieBros (and Russians) for Her loss.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Big Al's picture

@Wink democratic party comes down to those who oppose or will oppose the democratic party and this duopoly political system and those who will continue to vote for the democratic war party because of their political idol Bernie Sanders. Two basically opposing views on one blog.
It appears to me, based on the recs given to this essay and others like it, most people here are still going to support the democratic party and this duopoly political system, just as Bernie wants them to.

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@Big Al
Some are progressive. If I have the opportunity I'll vote for them. Some are Republicans playing identity politics. They can find their votes elsewhere.

Your argument would be more persuasive if you detailed an alternative strategy with some hope of success. As far as I can determine your plan is for liberal Democrats to stop voting, or at least stop voting for Democrats. The absence of the liberal votes will increase the size of Republican majorities at various levels of government. Here's where I can't keep up. Somehow increasing Republican majorities lead to a transformation of the American polity. The duopoly dissolves, but not into a Republican monopoly. American thinking is transformed. Imperialism is brought to an end. The freed resources are used to solve US problems at home.

It's the transformation that occurs when the duopoly dissolves that throws me. Outside of divine intervention I don't see it happening.

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Azazello's picture

@Big Al
It says "free-range politics" up there at the top, nothing about ideological purity or an official party line. I guess I'll go ahead and vote, if that's alright with you.

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Big Al's picture

@Azazello it should be OK if people want to oppose a corrupt political party that supports war and imperialism.
So? Something's gotta give, and I think like on Daily Kos, the conservatives will win out and run the radicals out.

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Azazello's picture

@Big Al
Nobody has to run anybody off.
I doesn't have to be that way, nor should it

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5 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@Big Al

Unlike daily kos, this place is in fact nonpartisan and JtC won’t purge the unbelievers or force us to bend the knee. So unless they (we, I mean; I guess I’m a radical now, since I no longer believe in electing politicians to save us) self-deport, we won’t be run off.

As I told JtC personally, I’ve been wanting to reach out to you, to encourage you to stick around, but I realized that was unfair, if I stay in lurk mode and watch you a few others take the flak. You’re not as alone as you feel, I’m fairly certain. I also fear that partisan politics is staging a takeover... but I also see many comments expressing dissent. Thankful for that. Hope you stick around.

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Big Al's picture

@CS in AZ Good comments btw. I know JtC wants this to stay non-partisan and respect his efforts here. I guess people will do what people do. I'm just at a point now, we're all aware of the evolution the last ten to fifteen years. I think most people forget or don't really comprehend what kind of situation we're faced with on this planet and in this country. I just think we Serfs are in "unacceptable" territory, i.e., this political system is unacceptable. We're being ruled, that has to stop, the charade has to stop.
I've still got a lot to say, there has to be a point. (Sounds like a good Monty Python type skit, "What's the Point?"

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Wink's picture

B.A., our "System" is
@Big Al
set up to either run as a D or run as an R. The other choice being to run as a third party candidate and get maybe 10% of the vote. And until there's a different System those are your choices. I choose to vote for the more progressive candidate. Who, 99 times out of a hundred is a Dim. Not voting is not an option unless we want to be governed by the Red Team. Becuz they vote.

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1 user has voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Big Al's picture

@Wink That's the point. And relative to the system, the point of not voting for the duopoly is to change the system. Or, as you and most others here insist, we can just keep voting for the same two political parties forever because that's the "system". Actually, the same political war party in this case.

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Azazello's picture

@Big Al
that you do anything.
You do what you think is best,
I'll do what I think is best.

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Wink's picture

"Only Bernie talking about it."
@snoopydawg
Well, one, like a lot of things said when Bernie opens his mouth, much of it simply is political hot air. Easily said when there are no consequences. But, hot air or not at least he is saying something. The Dims got nuthin'. Not one answer to anything.

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3 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

Wink's picture

responsible for California.
@eyo
And $15 will still be better than $12 in two years.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink you are not helping anyone but yourself, same as it ever was. Bernie is responsible for Vermont, that is my point exactly. Stay the fuck away from the money, don't bathe in it. Organizing Big Labor is not progress, it is bullshit power tripping of the trickle down D-Value kind. More Ds or Rs = more corruption. DUH

I won't laugh in your face when you don't win 2018, and then go on to lose 2020. Moar billions down the political toilet. ~shrug~ Just keep flushing. I might accidentally poke you on the way to the guillotines though, pardon my French.

lol yummy

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4 users have voted.
Wink's picture

a buck or two building
@eyo
progressive media gawd bless me! I can maybe make back some of the $5 Large (or more) I got into it.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

zoebear's picture

@Wink

In a cheap attempt to be "witty" at your expense. But then I decided I didn't really want to be that person. So my apologies for being rude in my not expressed thoughs.

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0 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

zoebear's picture

@gjohnsit

If it's real, then it can always go further

.
Anything going forward is what those in power allow to go forward. A very real roadblock that curiously few discuss here in their plans for change through voting.

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14 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

@zoebear

Anything going forward is what those in power allow to go forward.

The more they rig it, the bigger the backlash.
If people lose complete faith in the electoral system then the public no longer has a buy-in.
At that point violence starts and Big Brother can only maintain order with an iron fist.

The ruling elite is generally (but not always) smarter than to let that it go that far.

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11 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@gjohnsit

the electoral system is still being controlled by those in power. So, your supposition that those who control it, will be sure to leave a "a little democracy" for the rest of us to prevent widespread civil unrest is not a very compelling argument for electoral "participation" when our participation actually enables their malfeasance.

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6 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

@zoebear

. . . abandoned the Democratic Party in his run for Wasserman-Schultz' seat in Florida. He is now running as an independent. Apparently, in doing so, he has already been successful in raising oodles of grassroots cash. It is highly likely, that he may get more votes than her in her district during the general election. Except, who will count the votes? I mean, watch his interview with Jimmy Dore in which he talks about the ILLEGAL things that were done to him in terms of counting the votes in the primary in 2016 in favor of DWS. And the upshot of it was, that there were no consequences for these illegalities/irregularities to the parties involved. What makes him think that 2018 is going to be any different?

What makes you think the powers-that-be are going to be enlightened enough to give the people a "little" real democracy, when they honestly believe that they can use repressive tactics to shut down any real and peaceful, in-the-streets movements for democracy? I mean, why do you think they are spying on all of us and monitoring all of our electronic communications?

As for real and effective movements being met with violent repression, you are correct. This happened during the early decades of the American labor movement. It happened during the Civil Right movement.

Also, just look at Obama did to Occupy Wall Street by way of Homeland Security and its coordination with local mayors and police departments. That should tell you all you need to know about how the powers-that-be view real and effective threats to the the status quo. (Nonetheless, in spite of what happened to Occupy, it DID SUCCEED in changing the terms of the public conversation and consciousness. I doubt that there is anyone today in this country, much less the western world, that does not understand the concept of the 99%.)

Or just look back and see what Hoover/Douglass McArthur did to the "Bonus Marchers" in D.C. back during the Great Depression.

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10 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

What makes you think the powers-that-be are going to be enlightened enough to give the people a "little" real democracy,

I was repeating another posters supposition, not arguing my own.

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5 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

@zoebear

I was responding to gjohnsit's comment to which you had responded.

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6 users have voted.

@SoylentGreenisPeople

What makes you think the powers-that-be are going to be enlightened enough to give the people a "little" real democracy, when they honestly believe that they can use repressive tactics to shut down any real and peaceful, in-the-streets movements for democracy?

That does indeed happen too. I can't rule that out.
But it never ends well for anyone. Including the ruling elite.
The oligarchs don't want to have to live behind armed guards, surrounded by people living in misery that would cut their throats if they had the opportunity.
Plus all that security is expensive. It's penny wise, pound foolish.

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Wink's picture

Canova's race is
@SoylentGreenisPeople
important in that he is one of the first to dump the party and run on his own. "This is what Democracy looks like." And, I would argue, Big Al, is the (right) way to kill the Dim party. Support Indie progressives! Stack Congress with Indies.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@zoebear

leave a "a little democracy" for the rest of us to prevent widespread civil unrest is not a very compelling argument for electoral "participation"

Don't participate? Yeh, lots of people already do that (around 50%). How's that worked out?
Not so good.

So what's plan B?
Violence? I don't think so. At least not without a lot more detail.

Seriously. What is your alternative?

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3 users have voted.
Pluto's Republic's picture

@gjohnsit

Seriously. What is your alternative?

You list but two of the Remedies for our fake democracy, and imply a third. All have failed; the armed revolution failed spectacularly with the wrong side winning and driving the continuous war underground for the next 150 years. Here they are by my count:

Violence?
I don't think so.
At least not without a lot more detail.

Don't participate?
Yeh, lots of people already do that (around 50%).
How's that worked out?
Not so good.

Huge participation?
Yeh. That used to happen
And we still have a corporate-owned government.
Next?

::

Finally, in 2016, the American People deliberately selected political "outsiders" from both Parties to run as Presidential candidates.

Well, this caused the “politburo of capitalism” much consternation. The Council on Foreign Relations historically places CFR members on both sides of the ticket. That way, whoever wins will follow the exact course that they chart for the United States. Since the heads of each of the six US media monopolies are CFR members, it was a simple matter to knock Bernie out of the race with a news blackout. A few quiet words to specific precincts, as well, washed away the primary riff raff.

After the dust settled, they had only one CFR member on the Presidential ticket. But Hillary Clinton was a sure thing.

In his famous article about “The American Establishment”, political columnist Richard H. Rovere noted: “The directors of the CFR make up a sort of Presidium for that part of the Establishment that guides our destiny as a nation.… [I]t rarely fails to get one of its members, or at least one of its allies, into the White House. In fact, it generally is able to see to it that both nominees are men acceptable to it.”

Until recently, this assessment had indeed been justified. Thus, in 1993 former CFR director George H.W. Bush was followed by CFR member Bill Clinton, who in turn was followed by CFR “family member” George W. Bush. In 2008, CFR member John McCain lost against CFR candidate of choice, Barack Obama, who received the names of his entire Cabinet already one month prior to his election by CFR Senior Fellow (and Citigroup banker) Michael Froman. Froman later negotiated the TTP and TTIP free trade agreements, before returning to the CFR as a Distinguished Fellow.

But in the 2016 election, the Council could not, apparently, prevail. It was the first time that happened since they ascended to power shortly after WWII.

After the Inauguration of Donald Trump in January 2017, it took four months of intense cabinet substitutions and a Syrian "chemical weapon attack" to turn Donald Trump into a war criminal and bend him to their will, militarily. In April 2018, on the one-year anniversary of that first coup, they did it again. The geopolitical signal from the second false flag attack in Syria was read loud and clear around the world. The World knows with whom they are dealing.

Perhaps there is something the American People can do force the Council on Foreign Relations — Our Corporate Overlords — to skip the democracy kabuki and deal directly with us, instead. It's not like their rule is a secret anymore.

Too soon?

[edit = typos]

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7 users have voted.

________________________

While there is a lower class, I am in it, and while there is a criminal element I am of it, and while there is a soul in prison, I am not free. — Eugene Debs, 1918

zoebear's picture

@gjohnsit

Frankly, it took me almost a year before I was able to shift my attention away from years of active political participation and focus my energy and time on my immediate community: My friends, my family, my neighbors, my co-workers, the people I meet through networking and my Buddhist practice.

Whether that involves participating in motivational support groups in my neighborhood, organizing discussion meetings focusing on personal development and living a better life, or meditating and chanting with distressed neighbors and friends, my power now goes into creating value there.

I do not, however, have an answer for you as to how we take back our political agency as citizens. But this I do know: It will not involve enabling those in power to co-opt our consent and use it against us in a global mind fuck for more power.

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4 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

@gjohnsit because the PTB have been beefing up the Iron Fist with military tactics and hardware down to the Mayberry RFD level. Makes me think they've been anticipating this for a long while. When it happens it will be a planned response.

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10 users have voted.

@Snode
But we must push forward.
The guys with the guns don't always have the stomach to shoot fellow citizens.

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4 users have voted.
strollingone's picture

@gjohnsit

"They have the guns, but we have the numbers."

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6 users have voted.

@gjohnsit I wonder though, if word comes down, the whole apparatus gets put under Homeland Security. This comply or die thing is just too common to be coincidence.

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3 users have voted.
Wink's picture

"They" can continue
@gjohnsit
to rig elections. And will. But there eventually is a tipping point. @gjohnsit correct, as usual. Why continue to vote if you know they are rigged? Becuz that tipping point coming. And sooner rather than later.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

snoopydawg's picture

@zoebear

They have no place in a country that is supposed to have fair elections. Bernie won many primaries only to lose them to Her because of the superdelegates.

Bernie wants to get rid of them, but I'm thinking that will be a losing battle because the DP rely on the SD's money.

BERNIE SANDERS CAMP SAYS ENDING SUPERDELEGATE ‘DEBACLE’ KEY TO DEFEATING TRUMP IN 2020

It was June 2016. Former Bernie Sanders surrogate Nina Turner was just about to go onstage to introduce the Vermont senator at a San Francisco rally she estimated drew some 30,000 people. But just before she could, she noticed a "wave of despair" overcome the crowd as everyone, almost simultaneously, looked worryingly at their phones.

Though California residents had yet to cast their ballots in the 2016 primaries, the Associated Press was reporting that Hillary Clinton had effectively won.

The AP's forecast was the result of the Democratic National Committee's superdelegate system, which meant that Clinton needed only garner support from enough party delegates to win the presidential nomination. Now, members of the Sanders camp are leading calls to overhaul the system they say continues to leave voters disillusioned with the Democratic Party.

Read that again. Hillary won the primary before anyone had the chance to vote. How is a fair election? I used to have a graphic that showed who the SDs were and many of them were very rich and very unethical people. They get to buy their way on to being one. No amount of voting is going to change this.

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5 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

zoebear's picture

@snoopydawg

Oh, how I remember that well. As a California resident, I was check mated by those in power and made irrelevant before the voting even began.

When the enemy no longer hides from the fear of retaliation the battle is over.

Curiously, there are still those who believe that the enemy still fears us but I have seen no evidence of that.

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5 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

strollingone's picture

@zoebear

"When the enemy no longer hides from the fear of retaliation the battle is over."

And therein, precisely, lies their fatal flaw.

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3 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@strollingone

I'm more inclined to believe the predictions of California's demise when the "Big One" hits.

In the realm of political science, I'm less inclined. Too many wildly unpredictable human variables for me to be confident either way.

But like I said down thread, people have many motivations for their belief system.

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2 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

strollingone's picture

@zoebear
It suggests that our belief systems are the result of "motivations". I consider it to be the other way round. Since the formation of our belief systems begins almost at birth and is largely formed before we enter schooling where it is further formed by the beliefs of others, it might be said that our belief systems are the result of the beliefs of other people but hardly our own. We know of those who can apparently change their belief system to fit almost any situation, but in those cases it must be said that they have no belief system at all. A minor point, perhaps, and verging on "the chicken and the egg", but interesting nonetheless.

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zoebear's picture

@strollingone

vs. Your Mind Mastering You.

Neuro-plasticity and the science behind changing a lifetime of thought patterns are topics that have interested me since I began meditating and chanting years ago. Fear of the unfamiliar being the most difficult to change for me personally and also the most satisfying victory as I condition my own thought patterns away from this. The trick is vigilance and awareness. Otherwise, the neural pathways will kick into gear and habitually go where they've always gone.

Why do we do the things we do? The process of thousands upon thousands of thoughts each day compound into an unquestioning belief system that motivates our actions. Without awareness, your motivation will be informed by a thought pattern that is so habitual, it becomes almost invisible.

Which is really what I meant to say. And, yes, it is a bit like the chicken and the egg in that they are intricately linked.

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3 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

strollingone's picture

@zoebear
I think that I have an understanding of this. Is it like when you catch yourself reacting in the same old way to the same old situation and you REALLY don't want to so you try to intervene the second before you do it again? Takes a while, but you can see that you get closer and closer to when it happens and then, finally, you get there first, don't do it, and it is gone. Had to apply that one to quitting smoking and to a person who relished getting my goat. It's handy. Not sure how many humans ever practice it, though. Easier to just buy another cigapackerettes and then punch the guy in the nose.

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zoebear's picture

@strollingone

Of the benefit of repetition and awareness. When I was diagnosed with Bi-Polar II disorder a few years ago, I put my Buddhist practice of chanting and meditating towards Mastering My Mind in a way I never would have otherwise. Not only was I able to manage my mood swings naturally, without meds, I brought out and honed a fiercely powerful allay towards other areas of my life.

A beautiful mind, indeed Smile

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1 user has voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

snoopydawg's picture

@strollingone

And those who are still trying to change the direction of the country.

IMG_2032_1.JPG

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6 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

strollingone's picture

@snoopydawg
I must admit that your sign encapsulates much of my motivation...which then reinforces my belief system.

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3 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

@zoebear

Oh well, let's transport our minds to somewhere beautiful and relaxing

IMG_1676.JPG

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3 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

zoebear's picture

@snoopydawg

Smile

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1 user has voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

snoopydawg's picture

@zoebear

And if anyone is looking for something unique to give MOM for mom's day this photo and others are available for purchase.

Snoopydawgs' Photography

Smile

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2 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

zoebear's picture

@snoopydawg

We have so many talented people here Smile

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2 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

Wink's picture

too many still hide
@gjohnsit
in the shadows, afraid to Out themselves as the Bernie supporters they are. Way too few of us dare speak it loudly, the others afraid to lose one or more of their FB friends. Gawd forbid!

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7 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@gjohnsit

I agree with this:

"However, that doesn't mean that the progressive insurgency that is going on isn't real . . . ."

I believe it IS real. However, the function of the Democratic Party historically is take the REAL desire for change on the part of the population--the real progressive insurgencies of the past--and find ways to channel it into nothingness, kind of like a lighting rod attracts lightning, and channels it safely into the ground. Thus, people vote for Democrats expecting change . . . and little or nothing ends up changing. Again, and again, and again this has happened during the last three decades.

The definition of "insanity" is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting a different result.

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13 users have voted.

@zoebear @zoebear

All the sources spouting this new meme either have their noses firmly up the crack of the political establishment or ARE the political establishment.

Exactly WHY have they changed their story about Bernie? No one knows for sure.

"Whether you agree with those articles or not, the fact is that the way Bernie and his supporters are being reported has totally flipped, and this hasn't happened because Bernie and his crew have changed their agenda."

However, there is always the possibility that Bernie has cut deals with the establishment behind the scenes to play along with them and not touch certain sacred cows of theirs. Given his record of capitulations to the Dem establishment and betrayal of his supporters and countless numbers of small donors in 2016--i.e., his ultimate role as a "sheep herder"--I wouldn't exclude such a possibility.

In politics, it ALWAYS pays to be suspicious and skeptical. Always.

In fact, on a related note, I believe it was Jefferson that said that our system of government is not based upon trust, but upon DISTRUST. That's why the whole concept of "separation of powers" and "checks and balances" theoretically was set up in the first place.

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11 users have voted.

@SoylentGreenisPeople @SoylentGreenisPeople
Bernie is suddenly going to sell out?
Not likely.

No. Any future betrayal will come from a different direction.
Probably from the people around him or from misunderstanding what Bernie is.

Bernie isn't a peacenick a revolutionary or a real socialist

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9 users have voted.
Amanda Matthews's picture

@gjohnsit

as his geriatric old ass can push. That’s really screwed up. And telling.

I refuse to get in that line.

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8 users have voted.

I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

@gjohnsit

sold out.

You don't know what kind of leverage the powers-that-be have over him. Whether he's been blackmailed by the threat of the loss of something he holds dear, like his wife's freedom, his position in the Senate (Chris Hedges predicted early in 2016, while Bernie was still a contender for the nomination, that Bernie would capitulate to the Dem Party if for no other reason than he has a deal with the Democrats that if he doesn't oppose them on certain issues, they won't run somebody against him in Vermont to challenge his Senate seat), his public reputation, the safety of himself or his family members.

I'm suggesting that Bernie is already very compromised. I'm not sure exactly how or by what, but if it's true what Podesta apparently said about the DNC having "leverage" over him, then there's already substantial evidence of that. Coupled with the way that he changed his tune about contesting the Dem convention in 2016 after he met with Obama at the White House (the same Obama that ordered spying on the Trump campaign), I suggest that there is quite a lot of evidence, both circumstantial and direct, that the powers-that-be have something over him.

Need I go on?

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10 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople
had been in danger. If what he did can be called a sell-out, then it was an extorted sell-out. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise. The deep state would have done to him the same thing as they did to others. Destroy him and kill him.

If I were in the US, I think I would support him again. Call me a Bernie sister. If he wants to run for President I think he needs to work on his foreign policy agenda, a lot. So far I don't like that one. Other than that, I don't see anyone worth engaging for and just wouldn't vote. And I am ready to change my mind at any moment. Flip-flopping has become a necessary survival method.

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5 users have voted.

“Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.” -- Mark Twain

@mimi

"If what he did can be called a sell-out, then it was an extorted sell-out. There is no reason for me to believe otherwise. The deep state would have done to him the same thing as they did to others. Destroy him and kill him."

What makes you think they won't extort him again in the future if he threatens to "get out of line?" I mean he's already demonstrated he can be compromised. In view of what you've just said, what makes you think he wouldn't capitulate again in the future if he's once again threatened?

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8 users have voted.
Wink's picture

since JFK (at least)
@SoylentGreenisPeople
has been "leaned on" by "Deep State." Bernie was obviously leaned on during the primary. I would rather have Bernie leaned on than Kamala or Elizabeth or Uncle Joe or...

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3 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink by a bunch of Berniecrats getting elected when nothing has been done to prevent Deep State from "leaning on" them?

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7 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@on the cusp

I would rather have Bernie leaned on than Kamala or Elizabeth or Uncle Joe or...

And there is the compelling argument to enable those in power to fuck us in the ass with a baseball bat instead of a 2x4. Either way, you're still bending over so they can continue to fuck you in the ass.

Ouch.

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7 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

@zoebear sorry but that was one bing too many it broke my brain. Lovely microsoft trademark propaganda, I still hate that corporation most of all. Windows is so broken it can never be fixed, or secured. good luck
Merriam-Webster

Definition of bing
plural -s
1 dialectal, British
a : a heap or pile for storage
a bing of potatoes
b : a storage bin
2 slang : a solitary-confinement prison cell

dictionary.com

noun, British Dialect.
1. a heap or pile.

Ding is the thing I say all the time:

Definition of ding
transitive verb
1: to dwell on with tiresome repetition
keeps dinging it into him that the less he smokes the better —Samuel Butler †1902
intransitive verb
1 : to make a ringing sound : clang
2 : to speak with tiresome reiteration
...

ding!
wink 2

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4 users have voted.
mimi's picture

@on the cusp
elect some Sanders supporters and work to prevent the Deep State from "leaning on" them/him? The first is working within the system, the other is working outside the system. I think the later is more important, but who knows really how to do it?

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3 users have voted.

“Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.” -- Mark Twain

Wink's picture

ways to win.
@mimi
Elect enough Berniecrats and eventually Deep State has to make choices on who they lean on. Our power, like that of Repubs, is in the numbers. Despite the M$M to the contrary America is center Left, not center-Right.
"We" have to work from within and outside the party apparatus to win back Congress. And by "we" I mean no label (and Dim) progressives.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

mimi's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople
- as you call it - and did survive his resistance to the extortion of the Mafia Deep State players?

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4 users have voted.

“Politicians and diapers must be changed often, and for the same reason.” -- Mark Twain

snoopydawg's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

but not with his life. Probably more like his cabinet positions or his job in congress. If that's the case then I would like to believe that I would go for it anyway and if I lost, then I'd retire with dignity and retire.

This is what would happen if this world was saner ....

Smile

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5 users have voted.

Sessions would have taken Jesus away from his homeless refugee parents

zoebear's picture

@snoopydawg

And collecting data on everyone, I wouldn't be surprised if they blackmailed him with something.

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4 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

travelerxxx's picture

@zoebear

I also am most inclined to believe he was (and still is) being blackmailed. The change in him was way too sudden and way too radical. To me, it seemed like a car traveling 80 mph that suddenly was shifted into reverse gear.

Remember, the pilfered DNC emails even stated that they had "leverage" on him. I doubt they were lying about it.

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2 users have voted.
zoebear's picture

@travelerxxx

If Bernie was blackmailed, I wonder if the power elite are in an information war with each other, getting "leverage" over their enemies using their NSA data mining tentacles.

A lot less risky than killing your enemy, I suppose.

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2 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

travelerxxx's picture

@zoebear

Yes, the first thing I wondered about was whether some data-bank in Utah had particularly spicy details of a phone conversation or text ... or something. I'm sure Obama's FBI had access (legally or otherwise) to any of that data. Who can say. After all, the man has probably had political enemies for at least 50 years -- and none of us are sporting halos. We'll probably never know unless Sanders chooses to talk.

Whatever it is, the man seems to have beeen compromised ever since he stood next to Hillary at the Democratic convention ... with a quite visible cut on his face. Damn shaving razors......

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0 users have voted.
Big Al's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople build enthusiasm for the democratic party and steer the discussions into lame or fruitless single payer and minimum wage issues and away from antiwar/anti-imperialism and radical measures against the oligarchy and this political system. The DNC has admitted that Bernie is being used as an "outreach coordinator" and Sanders has never wavered from his stance that the democratic party is the only way to keep the republican right from power.

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9 users have voted.

@Big Al

Roosevelt (and remember, Bernie was always compared to FDR) gave the "little people" progressive economic legislation in the form of the New Deal, while at the same time buying the loyalty and consent of the working people in terms of WWII and the post-war American imperial project.

LBJ did the same thing: He gave the people Medicare, the Civil Rights Act, and the Great Society, while at the same time taking them into Viet Nam.

In fact, even in ancient Rome, just because the "little people" finally succeeded in getting an actual seat at the table in terms of domestic policies, it appears that that did nothing to stop Rome's wars of imperial conquest/expansion . . . which ultimately ended up undermining any democracy the people had succeeded in achieving.

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12 users have voted.

@Big Al

. . .party is the only way of keeping the Republican right from power.

What he's failed to explain when he's done this is that the democratic party is the "Democratic right."

So, one rejects one right wing party, by opting to place another one in its stead. (Supposedly, one of them is "worse" than the other . . . or so we've been trained to believe, because of things like transgender bathrooms, "God, guns, and gays," abortion issues, and all-round identity politics.)

Yeah, Bernie, great strategy there. You've got me convinced . . . . .

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7 users have voted.
TheOtherMaven's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

the wrong lizard might get elected."

Douglas Adams had his number, bigtime.

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1 user has voted.

There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Wink's picture

as such.
@SoylentGreenisPeople
And why it doesn't work.

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4 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@SoylentGreenisPeople and after all Bernie is on the Russia Russia Russia bandwagon. I believe he has also stated that the 2016 primary was fair and hasn't said a word about being cheated, so that leaves a few scenario's 1) He has already made some deals and is sheep herding. 2) He is going along with the program and using the Dem party to get elected so that he can try and change things for the little people or 3) He's just a dumbass. I would like to believe 2 but my gut feeling is 1 followed by 3 .

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8 users have voted.

@pro left

BTW, if Bernie had run as an independent or Green in 2016, and attacked the Democratic Party's/Hillary's corruption and fraud, he would have destroyed the Democratic Party's role as a viable entity for years. He would have gained enough of the popular vote (10%?, 15%?, 20%?, 25%?) such that Trump would have had a landslide electoral win, and the Democrats would likely have only won states like California, Mass., and New York.

Granted, he probably would not have won the presidency, and he probably would have sacrificed a lot personally and/or professionally had he done so, especially by the time the corporate media attack dogs got through with him, his fellow Dem Congressmen retaliated against him, and the DNC set out to take him out in Vermont. (At the very least, the Dems would have blamed him for Donald Trump's win.). But he would have dealt a very, very damaging blow to the Democratic Party, and significantly weakened the power of the duopoly, perhaps permanently.

But the fact is, he was and will always be a sheep dog for the Democratic Party. And all his talk about progressive, class-based change is the shtick he has used to fulfill that function.

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9 users have voted.
Wink's picture

There's no reason
@SoylentGreenisPeople
to believe Bernie could have run better as an Indie (and destroyed the Dim party in the process). Bernie likely would have been treated as a Ross Perot celebrity candidate, and a spoiler. Bernie ran in 2016 to set himself up for 2020. He had absolutely zero clue he'd have a chance to beat Her Highness, no one more surprised than him he still was actually in the race after the Ides.
But, yeah... 2020 could very well be his 2016 moment. Instead, it looks like he's going to waste it by hanging with the Dims. Bernie could win the whole enchilada by running as an Indie, all kinds of Berniecrat coat tails, and give a possible fatal blow to the Dim party. Certainly a solid dent! Alas... it looks like he's been leaned on to fall on his sword. Or he chooses to lose. So, again... it's up to us.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@SoylentGreenisPeople could overwhelm the democrats in the next 4 years, so they figure the progressives will be neutered, so it's a safe topic, just getting their unbiased creds in.

One thing about Trump, he pissed on every establishment, Koch loving, Grover Norquist stroking republican primary contender and won. Gives hope one day a progressive can do the same.

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7 users have voted.
Wink's picture

the bastids, but as
@zoebear
they say, any publicity is good publicity.
I don't know if the Berniecrats I support up here in NY-21, 22 and 24 will win their primaries, but all of them are All In for the cause.

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4 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

strollingone's picture

@zoebear @zoebear

on Gandhi's wheel. The ignoring and laughing are past...the beatings continue. The finale is now inevitable.

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5 users have voted.
Wink's picture

Some of us BernieBros never stopped believing. And it was never about the man. As Bernie himself said. It was about what Bernie brought to the table. That never went away. Berniecrats now run for offices everywhere, their campaigns built on the same premise.

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12 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
and their DoD/CIA veteran candidates in the phony primaries. I should say "Judas Goats".

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7 users have voted.
Wink's picture

in NY-21 is a Bernie-
@The Voice In the Wilderness
crat living on $27 contributions or less while the Well Funded schpies from the CIA / DoD live on caviar and champagne. It's the way it's going to be every two years. The Beltway Elite do Not want an infestation of Bernie scum mucking up their Chevy Chase neighborhoods and will be out there running against the dirty hippie anti-war Berniecrats every two years.
But, hey... I got nuthin' but time. No money, but I got time to fight these Elite a$$hats.

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9 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink

Bernie come through for all those people giving--and often sacrificing--all those $27 contributions, especially when he called the primary process "fair" (when it clearly wasn't) and refused to even comment upon the fraud law suit brought against the DNC??

Do you think he fulfilled his appropriate roles as their "leader" and as an advocate for their interests?

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10 users have voted.
Wink's picture

those $27 contributors
@SoylentGreenisPeople
and rally attendees between Albany and the 'cuse (Syracuse) I was strongly disappointed that he ignored the obvious, disgruntled as everyone else, and would rather he had "crashed the gates" a certain someone wrote about (sorry I bought the book). But, really, what would that have accomplished? "I was robbed!" Hillary and Her DNC ran roughshod over my campaign!" It might have made his supporters happier, but would have accomplished d!ck. And made him look like a sore loser.
But, when I heard his -ahem- -cough- "Endorsement Speech" in Philly I knew the Bern had plans to live to fight another day. I could hear Hillary cringe every time Bernie said, "we Know she supports $15 an hour," "we Know she supports universal health care," "we Know... "
Well, like the rest of us, Bernie knew damn well she did Not support those issues he supported. So, I Knew right then and there that Bernie was still in the game, playing a little rope-a-dope to stay politically alive. Mission Accomplished. Bigly! I suspect though, he will throw that all away by sticking with the party he should have abandoned by now. And that's sad. Becuz I believe he wins 2020 as an Indie. But that's neither here nor there. He may feel some sense of loyalty to the party that goes back long before 2016. Who knows? And in the voice of Lionel, "who cares?" It's not about Bernie. It's about having a chance to crash the gates what's-his-name now so dearly protects. Bernie gave us hope, at least, in 2016. That hope still carries on as hundreds of Berniecrats run for office carrying the same flag. I support their efforts while remembering who started it, who lit this candle. That some Bernie supporters still feel stabbed in the back.... we can't always get what we want. The rest of us carry on.

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10 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

zoebear's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople

From poking the establishment in the eye through their "resistance". It doesn't actually accomplish anything since those in power control the electoral process but I think the rationale is to not "give up".

Then there are those who believe "resistance" with a capital "R" is possible, ignoring entirely that those in power control the electoral process.

People have a lot of different motivations for their particular belief system.

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8 users have voted.

"World is a multi-dimensional reality. At lower levels, it is full with unconsciousness and competitiveness. At higher level, it is full of beauty, bliss and divinity. Focus on higher dimensions"
~Amit Ray

strollingone's picture

@SoylentGreenisPeople @SoylentGreenisPeople
about anything progressive? All of your arguments seem to be very Democratic in that they (as you said) "find ways to channel it [progressiveness] into nothingness, kind of like a lighting rod attracts lightning, and channels it safely into the ground." What a wonderful metaphor!

It's a lot easier to tear something down than to build something up. Got anything to build on?

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4 users have voted.

@Wink
whereby small donations can be concatenated and used as matching for candidates that will accept ONLY small donations and matches.
I wouldn't even have to agree with the candidate. My goal is to get the corrupting influence of big money out of politics. I have enough faith in the American public to believe that they eventually will do the right thing if they aren't bombarded every two minutes with slick Madison avenue ads telling them that Down is the new Up.

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5 users have voted.
Wink's picture

"Matching Funds" would
@The Voice In the Wilderness
work (becuz who is going to provide them?), but it's a good idea! Our guy here in NY-21 is running as a Berniecrat, having worked on the 2016 Bernie campaign as a paid worker. He accepts only "small donations," however those are defined, and most are $27 or less. But, yeah, matching funds would be nice.

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2 users have voted.

the little things you can do often are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-1.9) All about building progressive media.

@Wink
A central organization (non-profit) takes small donations from people like me (and hopefully you) and donates them to Congressional candidates who have taken the small donation pledge in proportion to those donations they have received directly. That's what I mean by "matching". I would argue for this on a non-partisan basis. Democrats, Greens, Independents, even Republicans and Libertarians. If you got onto the ballot and reject big money {the proposed non-profit) will contribute based on what you raised on your own if you eschew big dollars. No political test. The idea is to remove the corruption of big dollars and let the grassroots control the parties. ALL the parties. No ideological test. Let the voters do that.

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1 user has voted.
strollingone's picture

What are you negators trying to convince us of? That the deck is stacked in favor of those who consider themselves to be elite? Done: so what? That they change the rules to favor themselves? Of course they do. That our planet is headed to hell in a hand basket? Done and dusted. You got anything else to say?

Oh, yeah. One guy in the whole entire system comes along and points at the marks on the cards so he must be a sellout. That one guy articulates responses to the deepest inequities, so of course he MUST be controlled by the power mad manipulators of mankind: he MUST be because everyone else is. In that case, so are you. What are you REALLY arguing about? Many of those who express themselves on this site agree on the responses to the inequities that Bernie articulates. Is that what you are really negative about? Do tell.

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8 users have voted.

@strollingone
to strollingone's comment, please tell everyone what you suggest.
"We're all doomed! The End is Nigh!" get's kind of pointless, unless you go 100% all-in and are carrying a sign on a downtown street.
If you are carrying that sign this afternoon, then you get a pass for dedication. Otherwise, you have to suggest something. Just being too cool to participate is for teenagers.

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3 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@gjohnsit

Do you actually believe that personal insults like “teenagers” is going to convince anyone to start voting for democrats? Don’t you know by now that insulting people for not agreeing with you doesn’t bring them to your side?

First off, no I really do *not* have to have an alternative before I am allowed to reject a *false* solution that accomplishes nothing, and is actually counterproductive. I really don’t. I reject false political rhetoric, because it’s false. There doesn’t have to be an alternative. There isn’t one, actually. Once I know it’s false, I’m just done.

That’s like saying you cannot chose not to watch reality tv because it’s dumb and a waste of time, you must participate, you can’t make that choice unless you have a better idea for worthwhile programs on tv. “You have to suggest an alternative, or else you have to watch this show.” Um, no, I don’t. I can just say, that show is bullshit, and turn it off. Politics is reality tv. I don’t have to participate, and I don’t have to offer a better idea either. Turn. It. Off. That’s my better idea.

Anyone trying to tell me that I “have to” either be herded along and buy into electing democrats, or have a better solution, can go pound sand.

Insults do not change anything. In the past few days on here I’ve read that those not following along with that playbook are not good citizens, are like children, and now teenagers, and so on. What the fuck. This is a nonpartisan site, according to JtC, and that means we do not have to be fucking democrats to post here. We don’t have to carry water for democrats or so-called progressives, or vote, or do a damn thing regarding elections and politics. And we are not required to justify that to you or anyone.

This isn’t daily kos. People here are allowed to have different views. There are even trump supporters here. And the rest of us are allowed to push back when we disagree. Even to you! Gasp.

As for explaining why people choose to voice dissent and disagreement, that’s been answered. Read the comments. It’s been explained many times, many ways. And I’m glad they do. I’ve been staying quiet and keeping my head down for awhile now, but I think it’s time to change that.

In short... why express dissent to the sheepdogging? Simple. When sheep dogs bark and chase, sheep will comply and fall into the herd. But I’m not a sheep. Lots of folks here are not, and simply won’t be herded the way you want everyone to go.

I have chosen to return to participation — on here, not in politics — because I think it’s important that c99% not become a knock off daily kos, dominated and limited to political sheep dogs and “this time for sure, it’s going to work” delusions. I learn so much from the “negative” ones who speak their truth. They belong here as much as anyone else, and I don’t want them pushed out and silenced.

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6 users have voted.

@CS in AZ

There doesn’t have to be an alternative.

Of course there does. Obviously there does. Because if you do nothing then the world marches on like you don't exist.

That’s like saying you cannot chose not to watch reality tv because it’s dumb and a waste of time

A very bad comparison. If you don't watch tv, it doesn't matter to you and everyone else. If you don't participate in politics, you will still be impacted by politics every single day.

This is a nonpartisan site, according to JtC, and that means we do not have to be fucking democrats to post here.

No one said anything about anyone supporting Democrats. Hell, I voted for Jill Stein. In fact, I've voted Green since 1996.
But that's a hell of a lot different from "there is no solution". Fuck That!
That's just defeatism, and tell me once in your life that defeatism ever did anything good.

And the rest of us are allowed to push back when we disagree. Even to you! Gasp.

What's that supposed to mean?
I don't care what your agenda is, but throwing your hands up in the air is not an agenda. Not caring is not an agenda. At least not one I feel obligated to respect.

Do you know what I hear when someone tells me "there is no alternative"?
Margaret Thatcher. TINA is her creation.
Now you are repeating it, if only by accident. So maybe you can understand why that rubs me the wrong way.

stuff.jpg

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3 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@gjohnsit

You don’t have to respect me. Whatevs.

But you still don’t get to tell me I have to participate in the reality tv show called electoral politics. No. I don’t. See? That’s “defeatism” hum? More semi-subtle name calling. Still has no effect.

Look. When something obviously doesn’t work, when it’s clearly false, then it’s just plain silly to keep doing it anyway. But that’s fine, people are obviously free to do silly things, to waste time and money and energy on the next election, and tell themselves they are “doing something” and that gets them through the night. I used to be a true believer in politics as well. So I know how that feels.

The part that bothers me is the added tone, that those of you who like voting on the next season of American Political Idol are better than those of us who don’t do those things. And making clearly false statements that we actually have to vote or have a non-voting solution. Once again, no. We don’t.

Yes I live in this country, and my life is controlled by the powers that be. So is yours. Unfortunately, voting and giving time, money and energy to political corporations doesn’t do one thing to change it.

Since we’re chatting, hows about we turn it around. You have to show some solid evidence that your preferred solution is effective, or you have to stop pushing people to do something that wastes their lives. Hum?

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4 users have voted.

@CS in AZ

You have to show some solid evidence that your preferred solution is effective

I've offered dozens and dozens of alternatives.
How many of them work? It's impossible to say. But needing absolute proof of something being foolproof before endorsing it means that you will never be out in front of anything because it will always be fixed before it'll satisfy you.

You are also implying that I will only support my own solutions. That is not just untrue, but one of the biggest reasons I'm here is to hear alternative ideas. Any idea, even if only partially thought out is more than welcome.

If, on the other hand, this web site had nothing but a bunch of people who believed TINA and everything was hopeless, then I would quickly leave.
Unfortunately, this site is awfully close to that point.

BTW, TINA is what the ruling elite want you to believe.

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2 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@gjohnsit

But I firmly believe that what the powers that be want is exactly what you suggest and what you frequently state on here: that everyone hang all their hope on voting, waiting for the next election, picking a horse in the race and cheering them on, channeling all frustration into that rut, and hoping against all evidence that someday, things might get “a little better” — and settling for whatever crumbs they offer in the meantime to keep things going along.

I’ve read your copious writings on here for a long time now, and I honestly don’t recall you putting forth a single idea beyond voting for “progressives” to try to take over/reform the democrats. Which you insist is not just your personal preference but something we all have to do.

So, please, do tell, what other ideas do you have? Who knows, maybe we’ll find something we agree on after all. I’m open to that.

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5 users have voted.

@CS in AZ

But I firmly believe that what the powers that be want is exactly what you suggest and what you frequently state on here: that everyone hang all their hope on voting

I have absolutely no doubts in my mind that TPTB want people apathetic and disconnected.
Christ, if you were a kleptocrat in charge wouldn't you want people to just leave you alone to run things and steal people blind?

I’ve read your copious writings on here for a long time now, and I honestly don’t recall you putting forth a single idea beyond voting for “progressives” to try to take over/reform the democrats.

I wrote a whole series of diaries about ways to reform the economic system back on Orange State.

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2 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@gjohnsit

That certainly doesn’t fit me in that case. I’ve already said I think there are plenty of alternatives to the electoral politics show. First being the alternative to Turn it off. Let’s see ... other alternatives to politics ... Go outside. Read good books. Listen to music and dance. Find ways to laugh. Learn new things, go new places. Get together with friends and family, do volunteer work in the community, commit random acts of kindness to strangers, help animals in need. So many things to do.

Think about it. The powers that be — the elite — political leaders, corporate leaders, and the media, ALL push partisan politics as the only way to react to wrongs. There is no alternative... to voting and elections. That’s exactly what they want you to believe! We are taught it from childhood. We have “democracy” so voting is the ONLY way to deal with the issues... just wait and wait and vote and vote .... that’s what they want. That’s why I won’t anymore.

Edit to add: I am neither apathetic nor disconnected. I’m quite engaged and adamant in my view that they are actively fucking with us every single day. Including those bullshit stories about how Bernie has taken over the democrats. I mean seriously, that’s just ridiculous. I fight back by refusing to be manipulated into playing their games on their field. I’ve given my last dollar to politicians. I vote just to leave my ballot blank on those horse races.

I don’t read daily kos anymore, so can you at least summarize your ideas on how to reform the economic system without electing progressive democrats and taking over the dem party? I’m interested in that, but won’t go hunting for it on daily kos, sorry. I was referring to what you write about here.

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5 users have voted.
Azazello's picture

@CS in AZ
That's Arizona Revised Statutes, the laws that we must live under, the laws that affect us most. I really don't give a damn who's President of the US, it doesn't seem to matter. But I'll be damned if I'll boycott elections so that the effing Koch Bros. can write all our state laws. Laws will be made and they will be enforced, I'd like a say in that.

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4 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@Azazello

I will still vote in referendums, as we in AZ do have some access to direct democracy. However, I remember way, way back when, probably it was the late 90s, when AZ voters passed marijuana legalization or decriminalization or whatever it was, and the elected politicians said oh those silly votes, they were confused, and decided to ignore our vote.

I am right there with you on national politics, and I’m afraid I feel the same about the state. The dem party here is useless. 2010 senate race opened my eyes. Remember what happened to the good dem candidates? The progressives. They got steamrolled by the party and “liberals” who blindly endorsed that stupid shit Rodney Glassman. So I am off politicians. That senate race was crushing. Then came Bernie and there I went yet again. Eventually I learn. Bernie was my last hurrah.

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4 users have voted.
Azazello's picture

@CS in AZ
May Day march, Jacome Park, downtown, 4 p.m. Tuesday if you're interested.
I ain't givin' up.

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3 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@Azazello

I notice they are not advocating voting for particular politicians. Or waiting on the next election and certain political heros to help them. They are attempting to pressure whoever is in power, regardless of party or ideology. Oh and remember the insane republican wingnut Jan Brewer, who actually vetoed her own party’s republican state legislators on everything until they caved and took the ACA Medicare expansion? I do. Notice how the republicans promised their voters a wall along the border and repeal of the ACA, and delivered none of it? Interesting isn’t it? Almost like it really doesn’t matter which team is in charge this season.

I’m also not “giving up” to lay down and cry. I am actively refusing to be manipulated and herded into ineffective action that costs me time, money, energy, and goes nowhere. I hope you see the difference. Calling it “giving up” is one of those emotional manipulations. No one wants to be essentially called a coward or lazy... but I know my mind on this and those tactics won’t work for me. Not anymore.

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5 users have voted.
Azazello's picture

@CS in AZ
I'm not trying to manipulate you or anyone. I'm just trying to explain why I do what I do,
that's all. Peace.

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5 users have voted.
CS in AZ's picture

@Azazello

I think I’ve just gotten fed up with the scolding from too many people on here advocating that participation in electoral politics is the only good and right thing to do — TINA!! Hahaha — and the ongoing attempts to shame those of us who don’t buy what they’re selling. So yeah, I’m on high alert and calling it out. But I know that’s not you. Good to see you, and thank you for responding.

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6 users have voted.