Why poor evangelical christians love Trump
Submitted by gjohnsit on Sun, 04/08/2018 - 2:31pm
Most of the time on C99P we spend on the left side of the political spectrum, but we don't spend much time trying to understand Trump supporters.
What is most difficult to understand is why evangelicals love an unchristian man like Donald Trump.
Trump’s bromance with evangelicals looks unexpected only because we’re approaching it backward. It’s not so much that Trump has somehow hoodwinked or bullied the true-believing American right into an awkward set of ill-fitting cultural and political postures. It’s that a large part of the Protestant world has for decades now been embracing the brash capitalist gospel of Trumpism.
The key bulwark of faith-based Trumpism is the prosperity gospel — a movement rooted in Pentecostal preaching that holds that God directly dispenses divine favor in the capitalist marketplace to his steadfast believers. Trump assiduously courted the leading lights of the prosperity faith well before his presidential run got serious enough for him to make the obligatory rounds at hard-line evangelical gatherings, such as last month’s Faith and Freedom Coalition Conference. Last year, he hosted a conclave of three dozen leading prosperity preachers at Trump Tower, and his effort promptly netted him the vocal support of prosperity televangelist Paula White. Indeed, White is reputed to have presided over Trump’s born-again conversion.
When it comes to the particular behavioral preachments of Trumpism and Osteenism, the parallels are even more striking. Each espouses wealth as an expression of personal greatness — and vice versa. True, Trump announces this message with a self-hymning candor that doesn’t strike our ears as especially spiritual. But the broader affinities that his crude songs share with Osteen’s superficially scriptural prosperity faith are unmistakable. “You have to be wealthy in order to be great, I’m sorry to say,” the mogul declared at a North Dakota campaign stopin May. Osteen, if anything, wouldn’t bother to append the “I’m sorry to say” disclaimer. Osteen’s TV broadcasts and best-selling books harp on the same basic theme: God favors believers with great riches — in recompense for their total trust in God’s worldly designs for the faithful.
Four things are obvious here:
1) These are poor people that are being taken advantage of.
2) These people have no idea what Jesus actually taught.
3) These people have no idea how capitalism actually works.
and 4) Capitalism is a religious dogma.
The formation of the prosperity gospel has its roots in the Gilded Age, where Andrew Carnegie once wrote the Gospel of Wealth.
That book, a foundational defense of capitalism and income inequality based on the perceived intellectual differences and contributions of laborers and capital-owners, was also rooted in a certain form of muscular Christianity that placed health and wealth as the near-inevitable consequences of a life well-lived, and sickness as a curse for the damned.
The prosperity gospel makes sense for those that are rich, but poor people embracing it is just sad.
Comments
I am so glad you wrote about this . . .
I wrote a rant in the "Q" essay on this theme this morning, however few will see it.
Thank you!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
The needy give to the haves.
Religion for the most part is a pyramid scheme and has nothing to do with belief in a higher power. Those that fill the coffers are doing so to buy their place on the pyramid.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
With my first real job
back in the 60s, I had to work with an older Jewish fellow, poor like me.
On the subject of tithing he told me;
" Every week I cash my check and take it home and throw it up in the air, let God take what he wants, and keep whatever falls".
I've never forgotten that and still chuckle over it.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
Brings to mind the Mormon church
The church has 3 levels of the after life and only the very rich get to go to Kolob and become gawds. The rest of the members are sent to the lower levels. I'm not sure how many church members know about this little trick though.
The church made a smart play by making families pay for their children's missions that bring in new members to pay their 10% tithing. The church built a mall in SLC a couple years ago.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
They're smart They sell the best "afterlife" available
....In the religious market today. It's a fantastic ROI for s tithe of only 10 percent. For men, at least.
Have you looked into their rewards program? Kolob is just for starters.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Yep, the men get a great deal
the women not so much. Men can have more than one wife, but women can only have one husband. If a couple gets married in the temple they are sealed for life and then the after life. If a woman divorces her husband and remarries, she is still stuck with the first husband after she dies. This is so not fair.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
you make me laugh ...
I would say you are always stuck with the husbands no matter how many and no matter when.
Oh boy, I have not the nerves to watch and read most of the stuff in this essay. I am grateful to my parents that they were not religious and my mother especially was very silent about preachers.
We went to church for funerals and marriages and that's it. My generation didn't even go to churches for those two reasons anymore.
But now I start thinking should I really read something about "what Jesus really taught us"?
Arghh ... lemme think about that a bit more. Right now I started a biography of Golda Meir. If I wouldn't read C99p so much, I might have already gotten further ahead. She had "an interesting life".
https://www.euronews.com/live
You could start with the Sermon on the Mount, Mimi
which is the core of the teachings of Jesus of Nazareth. Unfortunately, most "Christian" churches have little to do with the teaching of Jesus.
That’s probably because if he came back today
He would be overturning the altars in their business establishments. That’s all ‘religion’ is anymore, and church officials are the new ‘money changers’.
You notice how quiet the churches were during the financial collapse. They weren’t about to offend their wealthier parishioners by standing up for their ‘victims’.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
well, I heard about that one when I was young,
just have forgotten about it. Thanks for your advice.
https://www.euronews.com/live
My butt sat on the pew in front of my mom for years
I was raised Catholic and we were in the 8:00 service starting when I was 2 and when we were doing catholic aerobics and standing, mom would plant me on the back of the pew in front of her. Can't tell you how glad I was when I got to sit in the pew instead of mom's lap.
It was worth it though because we had sourdough pancakes at my grandpas after services. Fun memories.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
I'll do you one better.
The Tabernacle was built from 1864 to 1867.
Of all the religions, the mormons are likely the worst.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Oh yeah. There are Mormon temples all over the globe
The Ogden temple was just redone after 40 years. It was changed inside and out. The SLC temple has had some renovations, but it still looks the same.
Here's the celestial room after the remodel.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Thanks for that my friend.
What god says a room should look as good as a celestial?
Arrogance at its finest.
Again, thank you.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Exactly, why would gawd be impressed with churches and temples
that cost millions while there is so much poverty? I don't think that He would tell them He really appreciated how pretty they made His house. "Hey Joseph, thanks for spending all that money on this church. What's that? There are millions of children who don't have enough food eat or a roof over their heads? Well when you get more money let's work on this, okay?"
$1.5 million is how much it cost to remodel the Ogden temple. I wonder how much the City Creel mall cost to build? Oh well, that wasn't money from the church side of funds, it came from the business side of the church. Not sure how they got that much money.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Sounds about right.
Some observers felt City Creek Center was an inappropriate project for the LDS Church. They argued that the high investment in consumerism and promoting conspicuous consumption neglected religious principles, and instead suggested that funds would be better spent on community resources, welfare services, or humanitarian outreach.[19][20]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_Creek_Center
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Thanks for the link
This was interesting to read. I haven't been to city creek since it was built, but used to hate driving by the construction every day for my job.
The Gateway mall has been destroyed by city creek because it couldn't take the competition. I only went to the Gateway once and did not like it because it was too spread out. It's like a huge strip mall, but much larger. Ick.
I do remember that people asked why the church had that much money to spend on the mall when they should be helping people instead.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
By fooling people into giving
the church 10% of their income. Lot of rich fucks in the SLC area too.
This shit is bananas.
As I recall,
Jesus got into a fair bit of trouble for not hanging around with the rich and the powerful, and instead spent his time with the poor, sick and disenfranchised. The Pharisees hated him for it.
It's amazing how everybody wants to be Pharisee, but almost nobody wants to be like Jesus.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Like I always say, if just 8-12% of self-professed
Christians actually abided by the basic tenets of Christ’s teaching, we’d have a totally different world overnight. Literally.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Matthew 6:5
And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites
are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men.
Verily I say unto you, They have their reward.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Ack! Temple so white!
The interior pic hurts my eyes. I would feel so uncomfortable there. Yuck.
Was going to keep quiet but
there is a reference in the New Testament where Jesus compares the Pharisees to "whited sepulchers". Just because something is white, doesn't necessarily mean it is clean.
KJV (King James Version)
and in an easier format
NIV (New International Version)
Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos
Thanks, Dark UltraValia
I love your sig, too. Tori Amos is amazing! Silent All these Years, Leather, and Me and a Gun are my faves.
The Prosperity Gospel is only half of the picture
The other half is fulfilling prophecy...war in the Middle East that will bring Jesus back. With a sword...if not an AR-15.
Oh, but they are going to be rich soon, don't you know.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
yes
Yes, tribulation means everything needs to go to hell. Sigh.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Did you know Jesus and Moses used guns to conquer the Romans?
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBf4MyqW550]
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
I missed that,
. As a history major, it's embarrassing how many little tidbits like that I glossed right over.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Love the video . .
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
what? really? you love that video? or was that snark?
I think the video is huge pile of manipulative and racist propaganda.
https://www.euronews.com/live
Ah . . . my twisted sense of humor . . .
I enjoyed it because it was a pile of shit. Sorry.
I used to love Beavis and Butthead too . . . . not because I embraced their ideology, but because they were horribly funny.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
no idea what covers for humor in these days
guess it's just what makes you laugh? The comedy of our times makes me ill. If I were to laugh, just a little bit..
It is because of T-rumps deep understanding of the Bible
you remember two Corinthians (rather than second?) at Liberty University
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EIgHsGZAmk (3 min)
Obviously a real bible scholar.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
facts so nice
The following facts are so nice, I repeat them twice:
One example of these facts is the "ministry" of Peter Popoff, who was busted by James Randi getting critical information about attendees at his revival meetings not, as he said, from Divine inspiration, but via a high-frequency radio link in his ear from his wife.
Popoff is still advertising his prosperity badspell ministry today, complete with new wife! In the commercials, Popoff's name is constantly seen and heard.
Guess whose name is NEVER mentioned in the commercials.
That's right. No mention of the Name of Jesus is ever heard or seen.
Some Christian that Peter Popoff is, eh?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Jim Bakker is still going too.
He was actually threatening Civil War if Dipshit gets impeached. And even before that he led a prayer circle with a bunch of Repig senators before obamacare passed.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
He is still an asshole . . . yes
But at least Tammy Faye became a voice for the gay community. And his son was (haven't looked recently) was helping street people in NYC.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Jesus is on the bored of deflectors
in 87 of the major money changers from Waltz Screech to Hyperpig Sillyzone Valley. Can't miss the cluster of info combiners scalping our buying habits to sell another brainless war. Can we stop playing with these bullies now?
this sentence no verb
Fixed, this should read:
"The prosperity gospel makes sense for those that are rich, but poor people embracing it is just sad."
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
For those that might be interested....
...more on the origins of the Prosperity Jeebus
https://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/15/opinion/sunday/a-christian-nation-sin...
A Christian Nation? Since When? By Kevin M. Kruse
in part:
Compensated Spokes Model for Big Poor.
handmaiden
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
God thinks.
[video:https://youtu.be/q-PX2Z4r-e4]
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
The C Street Christians
They openly admit that Jesus had the poverty thing wrong. They say that in order to get into heaven they have to have lots and lots of money. That eye of the camel saying had been misinterpreted somehow.
Ryan might find himself in a difficult position when he arrives at the Pearly Gates since he considers himself a catholic. The church is all about helping people in poverty. This is what the Pope is always preaching about. Never mind that the Vatican is sitting on trillions in cash, property, fine art, etc.
I have never understood how people can consider themselves Christians and then be for wars, the death penalty and kicking people off social programs because they aren't pulling their own weight. Pro life no matter what, but no social program help for after the kids are born. Anti planned parenthood where many poorer women get access to birth control so they don't have babies they can't afford. Too many Christians are total hypocrites.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
"eye of the camel" yuck
thanks but that typo made me think strange pedantic thoughts.
"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God." (Matthew 19:24)
easy peasy
When I first moved to Cloverdale I was like, WTF? All I see are churches and liquor stores, like where there is one, so the other. What is happening right now is what I call "the whitening" of Sonoma County. If y'all think Ds are protecting immigrants, please grab a clue. Ds are protecting the low wage work force that can't be automated right now, that is all. LIHOP and let Trump take all blame, that is what I see happening here. The robots are still coming, there is no resistance.
Now I understand why people think poverty is beautiful, gorgeous. Because it rewards their convictions and lets them feel good about cruelty as a way of life, that's my observation. I have been in the same region for almost sixty years, don't fucking hand me some bullshit retread speech on the arc of history. I am history now, you can rewrite the words all you want but it doesn't change the experience.
California is a cesspool of greed and political corruption, peak Gold Rush mentality still driving us off the cliff while LA Times writes about Brown's Jesuit training. We have no poverty or homelessness, we are already great. We are the Hollywood propaganda machine, the West Coast Wall Street.
I guess my income is now considered to be in the Very Poor range, and I have recently begun to pray again, there's a connection. It is because there is no one left to care. When the system has become as dysfunctional as the family drunks, what's left? "People come here for the opportunity" says Jerry about Trump's Great Wall. Please, just kill me now.
"I pray to God to please show me a sign
Has anybody seen my mind?"
I did mess that up big time
Oops. Oh well you knew what I meant.
When I first moved to Modesto I couldn't believe how many Ward houses there were. Wards are the neighborhood Mormon churches and Modesto is called SLC west because of how many Mormons live there.
No I don't think the democrats are protecting immigrants. It's one more ploy to get people to vote for them. The kabuki bullshit that they played on the Dreamers was unbelievable because they really thought that the democrats had their backs. This just showed that the democrats are all talk and no action. And they again got a pass for it from the voters. The republicans were the mean ones because they wouldn't bring DACA up for a vote. Riiight!
The robots are coming and congress has no clue what to do for the people who will lose their jobs to them.
I'm in the very poor boat with you. Sorry to hear about that.
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
California is a Garden of Eden,
A paradise to live in or to see.
But believe it or not
You won't find it so hot
If you ain't got the do re mi.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
The needle was a gate
It was a short, narrow entry through a city wall next to the main gate that was used after hours. It was small so it couldn’t be used for night assaults. Because of its height, a camel had to be unloaded before it could walk through. Similarly a rich man must unload his riches before he can enter.
How this simple teaching gets turned in the prosperity gospel is mind boggling.
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
That's one version of the story
Another is that the word commonly translated as "camel" actually meant "camel-hair rope". It essentially comes to the same thing: you can't buy your way into heaven.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
What do you mean by saying that Trump
has no idea what "Jesus actually taught"? I know what Jesus taught, having read the entire bible cover to cover... Jesus taught that unbelievers and freethinkers will burn in hell. He condemned a whole town of people he never met to a fate worse than Sodom and Gomorrah because they rejected his evangelizing disciples.
Sounds like Trump knows exactly what Jesus taught. No one is allowed to worship any other gods than him and no one is allowed to have a differing opinion. Yep... that's Jesus all right! Trump is not "unchristian", he's very Christian.
And why in the world do people always equate the term "Christians" with goodness or morality? Like it's a given... he's very Christian or she's very un-Christian. Christian does not MEAN good person. It means someone who follows the ideas of a mythological character who they claim died to free them from original sin and who offers them a spot in eternal bliss if they worship, agree with or otherwise venerate this man and his "father".
You want to know what Trump has done for religion? He has opened the hellgate to the 7 Mountain Christian Dominionists who are now running rampant at the upper levels of our government. These people have been pushing to get into power for years. Obama opened the door a bit and then The Donald opened it completely.
And we won't get them out because neither the GOP or the DEMS will do anything about it... because, you know you're supposed to respect people's religious beliefs-right? If you don't know about the 7 mountains movement, then look it up. Absolute lunacy. Pence, DeVos, Pompeo, Pruitt,
https://rewire.news/article/2017/07/24/meet-group-right-wing-christians-....... Lance Wellnau is on the Diversity group for Trump (http://ndctrump.com/who-we-are/) and a top leader of the 7 Mountains dominionists. He has bragged about placing "ninja sheep" in Trump's administration on the David Barton (this is a Christian nation and I'll lie about history to prove it) Wallbuilders show.
The 'poor misguided evangelicals who voted for Trump knew exactly what they were doing. They don't care if it's rich people taking them for a ride... as long as it conquers those mountains and brings on the Second Coming.
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
I don't read it that way at all . . .
After 6 years with the prosperity gospel folks, I decided I wanted to find out what Jesus really taught, so I started listening to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. Been doing that for 30 years now. I don't pay attention to the old testament, or the rest of the NT.
Sure, there are a few weird ass things here and there, but the big message is love, mercy, forgiveness, love of enemies, lifting up women, understanding those who don't do traditional marriage (Matt. 19). Jesus only pokes fun at tithing. Says no to prayer in schools since prayer should be in secret. He was constantly providing free education about social justice, and even had a free lunch program for all. The rich are messed up. He only scolds the religious hypocrites. Never the poor, the common person.
Your quote about it being worse off for a town - he didn't call down fire on them. It was just commentary about the condition of their hearts - whatever that was. On another occassion when the disciples asked if they should call down fire from heaven, Jesus rebuked them and said, "you don't know what spirit you are of." He wasn't having any of it.
John 3:17 says that he didn't come into the world to condemn it, but to save it.
Although I certainly don't blame you for feeling that way about christianity. Most of it is in the toilet these days. It's like it exists to hurt people.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Thanks for your interpretation, Marilyn.
I have an ongoing battle with my Christian parents, who have sadly been snowed by RW partisan propaganda.
It’s often about all those kinds of things you mention.
My sister is still into the whole partisan charade and spews same kind of vitriol to my Dad about Trump that I did for Bush. Told her the propaganda on both sides is what’s controlling us all. Then suggested she see the film, The Brainwashing of My Dad. It’s rightfully about Fox’s reign of terror on America’s elderly, but one could just as easily now be made for MSNBC’s propaganda machine.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
My brother joined Thee Church
Growing up my brother would attack the Mormon missionaries when they came to our house and my parents finally told him to stop answering the door if it was missionaries at it. Then my friends started telling me that he was seeing the Home Teachers, a Mormon couple that helped people join the church. At first I just laughed because I knew how he felt about them, but I then found out it was true.
When he told my parents that he was marrying his girlfriend, my mom cried and begged him not to join the church. He did, but that meeting set the tone for his wife's view of our family and she has held her grudge for 40 years. Mom went out of her way to be nice to the wife, but she never warmed up to my mom. Not once did she visit her after she got sick, and she didn't visit her the last time she was in the hospital when we all knew what was coming. Very "Christian" of her.
How many families has organized religion hurt?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
One of my brothers went back
To a prosperity gospel church. We just don't talk about it. He is such a good hearted guy, but that stuff messes with him.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Fishtroller02 and Colin Maine on Jesus
You and Thomas Jefferson.
The result of Mr. Jefferson's work, The Jefferson Bible, is available for free perusal or download from several sources:
the 1902 printing in PDF format
an interactive version with adjustable Bible translation choices
And that's before we get into the question of whether Jesus -- or anyone who could have shaken Jesus' hand -- actually said some of the things Fishtroller02 is objecting to.
And a consideration of the idea, first proposed by Abraham himself, that there were possibly people in Sodom and Gommorah who weren't all in with the mistreatment of Lot's guests.
Again, this is consistent with the rest of our body of knowledge about Jesus and about His contemporary Essene preachers of His day.
The nasty stuff stinks to high heaven of one Constantine Flavius, the Roman Emperor who made Christianity the official State religion of the Roman Empire. (If you think the Church Council of Trent was organized by the Christian community or for its demonstrable good, you need to learn more history!)
Especially the Johnny-come-lately Prosperity Badspell cults which our Essayist was writing about!
I mention Colin Maine because his "The Unpleasant Personality of Jesus Christ" covers much the same ground that Fishtroller02 does in his objections.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Notice how people only know one passage of Leviticus?
That dude was really bent over how many people should be put to death for various actions. Talk back to your parents? Death. Wear mixed clothing? Death. Eat certain foods? Death.
I tried reading the Old Testament and all I saw was an angry gawd. "Kill this, destroy that." That wasn't my idea of how gawd should act. Yuck!
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
I enjoy your history lessons
On this stuff! Really fleshes it out. Thanks.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Greco-Roman history buff
So it looks like all those hours learning Latin, and the smattering of Greek I have, are now paying off!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I do not find someone who says that those
who do not believe in a certain narrative about the nature of the cosmos should be condemned, punished or suffer eternal torture is a role model for morality. Jesus was NOT ecumenical. Jesus said there is only ONE WAY to God, and those who don't believe in that way will perish. It's all in there. I'm always amazed at how people miss this.
http://www.usbible.com/Jesus/hellfire_jesus.htm
"Without the right to offend, freedom of speech does not exist." Taslima Nasrin
darn that opiate of the people
@eState4Column5
This
1) These are poor people that are being taken advantage of.
2) These people have no idea what Jesus actually taught.
3) These people have no idea how capitalism actually works.
and 4) Capitalism is a religious dogma.
It also seems American democracy has to be included because of its parasitic relationship with capitalism, though I am beginning to think government has slowly become the parasite. Religion is on the verge of splitting into an auxiliary appendage of one political party or the other, and formally birthing the unholy trinity of christianity, capitalism and politics. The most important thing to all three is money flows upward, and this supreme court seems on the verge of giving its blessing to this.
Bible Verses For Business
Not the Prosperity Gospel:
24 Bible Verses That Will Change The Way You Do Business
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
This neatly corresponds to a post by Caitlin Johnstone
that I just finished reading. Greed hadn’t only corrupted those who preach the prosperity gospel, it’s done the same to the arts.
Corporatism and conservatism are taking over everything. Religion, the arts, education, entertainment. And the ‘Left’.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Trump & Bolton & Netanyahu
The Dominionists also adore the way Trump is helping bring about the Second Coming of Christ and all the gory glory found in Revelations.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
How Corporate America Created Christian America
Man, I really need to subscribe to Adbusters, to get great stuff like this:
I've put this elsewhere but it's definitely fitting here. Kevin Kruse's book "One Nation Under God: How Corporate America Invented Christian America" looks great (an excerpt here is a great foray into this whole thing.
I've watched a couple of his lectures and interviews and was impressed by his historical study tracing it back to the oligarchs of the early 20h century, and especially after the Great Depression, using their money and influence to infiltrate the Christian church after sensing the roiling anti-Big Business/Wall St fervent populism had seriously engaged the masses to the brink of an anti-Capitalist movement. They somehow passed off this ridiculous malarkey under the "Prosperity Gospel," which eventually took root as a corporate evangelical movement, that as we all know now, has since engulfed modern America.
and, an interview with "Slavery by Another Name" author Douglas Blackmon.
But Hedges's book "American Fascists" really peels away the utter depravity, ugly bigotry, and the obscene fealty to militarism and capitalism of the modern Christian conservative - and pulls no punches in making the case for calling them exactly what they are.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
great videos
Sort begins with Job.
So Job is laid low because of a bet that Gawd and the Devil made over him. As Job sinks he questions why him. I believe in the book, one reason given by people is that he did something wrong to bring on Gawd's wrath. And Job claims he is innocent of any such crimes. Even then, people saw propserity as a sign of Gawd's favor, and poverty as Gawd's punishment.
There is in right wing Christianity homilies that push this point. I think Adam Johnson of FAIR callis it perserverance porn. Some economically lowly but devout person is rewarded for his good faith. One which goes to Medicare for all: A poor but Gawd fearing barrista was making coffee and testifying for the Lord. He then tells the tragedy of either him or a relative dying of brain cancer but could not pay for it. Well, so happens a famous brain surgeon was standing in line getting coffee, and became taken by the guy's faith, that the surgeon said he would do the operation for free. (Not said who pays for the hospital fees, etc)
What the hell a progressive would ask, we need single payer. No says the Christian, we just need faith and all world's riches will be on you.
Job and people who survive natural disasters
On the topic of gawd punishing people, after a hurricane flattens every house in a neighborhood, the news will interview someone whose house is still standing and they say that "gawd protected my house." Does that mean that gawd was upset with the other people whose houses were destroyed?
Oh when people say that gawd favored their team over the other one? "Gawd, please protect our men and women" who we are sending to kill people in other countries because they are gawd fearing Christians. Whoboy. Religion, ehh?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Superstition & Religion
I've always viewed religion as a socially accepted form of superstition. Therefore, when someone claims their religion is better than another religion, it just implies they think their superstition is superior. Pretty ridiculous when you think about it.
@snoopydawg “Lord our Father, our
“Lord our Father, our young patriots, idols of our hearts, go forth into battle — be Thou near them! With them — in spirit — we also go forth from the sweet peace of our beloved firesides to smite the foe. O Lord our God, help us tear their soldiers to bloody shreds with our shells; help us to cover their smiling fields with the pale forms of their patriot dead; help us to drown the thunder of the guns with the shrieks of their wounded, writhing in pain; help us to lay waste their humble homes with a hurricane of fire; help us to wring the hearts of their unoffending widows with unavailing grief; help us to turn them out roofless with their little children to wander unfriended in the wastes of their desolated land in rags and hunger and thirst, sports of the sun flames in summer and the icy winds of winter, broken in spirit, worn with travail, imploring thee for the refuge of the grave and denied it —
For our sakes who adore Thee, Lord, blast their hopes, blight their lives, protract their bitter pilgrimmage, make heavy their steps, water their way with their tears, stain the white snow with the blood of their wounded feet!
We ask it, in the spirit of love, of Him Who is the Source of Love, and Who is the ever-faithful refuge and friend of all that are sore beset and seek His aid with humble and contrite hearts. Amen.
This was taken from Mark Twain's War Prayer and They Thought Him a Lunatic. It was not published until after his death.
Snoop, this is exactly what you're saying.
https://warprayer.org/
I love Mark Twain.
In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams
Job is a very interesting book
The ancient Hebrews' early beliefs were very much like the prosperity gospel, but they noticed that bad things happened to good people and vice versa. They then extended the rewards to subsequent generations (you may get stomped on if you are good, but good things will happen to your children, or their children or...), but this was obviously false as well. Job is an attempt to deal with this contradiction. At one point the resolution of the contradiction seems to be that we are tiny impotent beings that should not question God, but then there is a contradictory bit tacked on at the end from another source where Job gets everything back and we philosophically move back to square 1.
That's the kind of thing that makes the bible very useful
..for manipulators with agendas.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Is this the Joel Osteen
who refused to open his mega church for Hurricane Harvey victims?
Yeah... he's a Man of God (eyeroll).
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Yeah, THAT Joel Osteen
Indeed. The very same Joel Osteen.
In fact, it's worse than he just "... refused to open his mega church ..." He actually claimed that he couldn't open it for the hurricane victims, as it was flooded. A friend of our family happened to live near Osteen's palatial cathedral, walked over, saw that it was as dry as a popcorn fart, filmed same, and posted it to the world on the Internet. Joel and Victoria Osteen then had a sad as they do not particularly prefer the taste of crow.
There were a great many acts of selfless charity and daring heroics during and after Hurricane Harvey, but none of these were to be found at Osteen's Lakewood Church ... at least not until the PR got so bad for Osteen that he was forced to open his doors.
Islamic Mosques were more helpful than Joel Osteen.
That should tell you something.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Ten richest pastors in the United States
as estimated by Forbes Magazine are listed in the article linked below.
https://networthmag.com/ten-richest-american-pastors-their-net-worth/
Preaching the gospel can be very rewarding financially, which has sometimes been characterized as "fleecing the flock."
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
ten rich bastards
Ten rich bastards. And not one of them a representative of any Christian sect with a history prior to the Crusades era. All Protestants to a (wo)man.
Gack.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
#3 on 10 richest preacher's list turned away Harvey refugees
Yes, the parking garage was flooded. Yes, flood waters got within a couple feet (supposedly) of the mega-church. No, his staff did not let anyone in, and actually turned them away. Then, he preached in a sermon, not to have a "poor me" attitude.
http://www.newsweek.com/joel-osteen-televangelist-whose-church-closed-du...
However, a charismatic, very successful furniture salesman we all call Mattress MaCK DID open his doors. He let wet, shivering families into every one of his stores - and let them sleep on, sit on, and eat at all the furniture in the showrooms.
Not only that, he paid to fly a plane full of 1st responders and their families to the super bowl. Paid for their super bowl tickets too.
http://time.com/4922108/hurricane-harvey-mattress-mack-houston/
He also paid for air time to spread the word about post Harvey PTSD, and how to ask for help. He's an angel. He really is. Total opposite of Richard Head Osteen.
The furniture guy is the one
really following Jesus. What a great guy!! Amazing.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I wonder if #1 TD jakes (149 mil) is #3's, Joel Osteen's, hero
Beware the bullshit factories.
Wasn't TD Jakes a "spiritual advisor"
To President Obama?
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Drats, that prompted a search. Yes he was.
thanks.
President Obama's 'Pastor' Witnessed Faith in White House
Sounds like a monarch now. Never mind. "Dubois, fetch me a 'Pastor'". Quote quote. Why did they put so many quotes around Pastor? I don't know. Fake pastor? lol
I would think a lot of it is need for social interaction
I think many religious people belong to their churches out of a fear of isolation and they know, at some level, that their preachers might not be making complete sense. I wish there were more social alternatives to dogmatic religious groups that focused more on education than blind faith. Maybe community colleges could serve that role since they're everywhere too, at least for now.
Beware the bullshit factories.
alternatives
There are. They're called Unitarian-Universalist Churches!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
hit the wrong button!
Dang
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Political parties are like churches.
Send in your money, have faith in your politician. Maybe duopoly voters are just going to church.
My house was to be called a house of prayer...
...but you have made it a den of thieves.
— Matthew 21:13
I mean it’s not like it’s subtle or anything!
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
I am late to this "diary."
I am late to this "diary." What the hell do we call them here? But I found it fascinating and full of information that I want to follow up on.
Thank you to all for such insight.
A special thanks to mhagle, Marilyn, for making me laugh a bit today. I am with you that I do read the Bible and try to live by caring for others. As Bernie's religion, "If another is hurting, I hurt also." But I've always felt a bit of a contradiction, because of age and gender, I can also have a pretty weird sense of humor...even vulgar. I've gotta say, though, I kind of enjoy the many facets of my crazy life.
This is way past...but happy Friday all!
In life, as in dance, grace glides on blistered feet. ~Alice Abrams