On the Ta-Nehisi Coates v Cornel West dispute
I have two disclaimers:
1) I'm a white male, so obviously my opinion in this debate is irrelevant. Nevertheless, I'm going to offer it anyway.
2) I've been a HUGE fan of Cornel West for ages. He's brilliant and I'm openly biased in his favor.
The dispute between Coates and West started with this article from West in response to Ta-Nehisi Coates’ book We Were Eight Years in Power.
Coates and I come from a great tradition of the black freedom struggle. He represents the neoliberal wing that sounds militant about white supremacy but renders black fightback invisible. This wing reaps the benefits of the neoliberal establishment that rewards silences on issues such as Wall Street greed or Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands and people.
The disagreement between Coates and me is clear: any analysis or vision of our world that omits the centrality of Wall Street power, US military policies, and the complex dynamics of class, gender, and sexuality in black America is too narrow and dangerously misleading. So it is with Ta-Nehisi Coates’ worldview.
...In short, Coates fetishizes white supremacy. He makes it almighty, magical and unremovable. What concerns me is his narrative of “defiance”. For Coates, defiance is narrowly aesthetic – a personal commitment to writing with no connection to collective action. It generates crocodile tears of neoliberals who have no intention of sharing power or giving up privilege.
When he honestly asks: “How do you defy a power that insists on claiming you?”, the answer should be clear: they claim you because you are silent on what is a threat to their order (especially Wall Street and war). You defy them when you threaten that order.
Yes! Yes! And Double Yes!
You should always be dubious of any political movement that doesn't threaten the existing power structure. Replacing whites and males with blacks and women in the corporate boardrooms and political offices without addressing the existing system of oppression is pointless.
In a separate interview, West make a more direct point about Coates' book title.
Yes. “We Were Eight Years in Power.” Who’s the “we”? When’s the last time he’s been through the ghetto, in the hoods, to the schools and indecent housing and mass unemployment? We were in power for eight years? My God. Maybe he and some of his friends might have been in power, but not poor working people.
That is why blacks are worse off economically after eight years of Obama.
Some of Coates' defenders have come out of the woodwork with particularly snide comments.
After all, he is a world-renowned academic busy saving the world.
...
West’s characterization of neoliberalism is opinionated but largely correct.
...
I hesitate to call West’s callouts a “beef” because Coates is seemingly disinterested in becoming Biggie to West’s Tupac-ish shenanigans. (And yes, they have risen to the level of “shenanigans” because, even in the merit-based part of West’s argument, there is an undeniable level of saltiness that extends past the text of Coates’ writing.)
...
Lost in West’s criticism of Coates is an insidious undercurrent that repeatedly asks, “Why does he talk about race so much?”
West has been fighting for blacks for longer than this a**hole has been alive, and he has the nerve to put words in his mouth? For shame.
Even in his conversation with The Root, West cast his criticism in more nuance, explaining that Coates was a “brilliant brother, and we’ve got much to learn from him.” But West continued:
I just don’t like talking about white supremacy independent of the empire and patriarchy, especially of class. I think that we can’t be pre-Du Bois. Du Bois taught us white supremacy is always to be viewed in relation to class patriarchy and empire and homophobia and transphobia. If you’re talking about white supremacy as if it’s up here, you end up acting as if it’s all-powerful because it looks like it’s winning all the time, it’s winning all the time.
But it is the extra shit that makes West look like Michael Jordan throwing marbles on the court while LeBron James is breaking away for another awe-inspiring dunk. And with West—God love his brilliant soul—there is always the extra shit. Always
Obviously West was throwing pearls before swine.
It's amazing how the people who talk about intersectionality in regards to race and gender, have so much problem seeing how class and empire are it's driving forces.
Unfortunately, Coates’ allegiance to Obama has produced an impoverished understanding of black history. He reveals this when he writes: “Ossie Davis famously eulogized Malcolm X as ‘our living, Black manhood’ and ‘our own Black shining prince.’ Only one man today could bear those twin honorifics: Barack Obama.”
This gross misunderstanding of who Malcolm X was – the greatest prophetic voice against the American Empire – and who Barack Obama is – the first black head of the American Empire – speaks volumes about Coates’ neoliberal view of the world.
Coates praises Obama as a “deeply moral human being” while remaining silent on the 563 drone strikes, the assassination of US citizens with no trial, the 26,171 bombs dropped on five Muslim-majority countries in 2016 and the 550 Palestinian children killed with US supported planes in 51 days, etc. He calls Obama “one of the greatest presidents in American history,” who for “eight years ... walked on ice and never fell.”
West says it more eloquently than I could. I would simply point out that this “deeply moral human being” bragged about his bombing seven countries and that he’s “really good at killing people”.
However, the best response to Coates' unconditional praise of Obama's moral character doesn't come from me, or even West. It comes from a black person living abroad.
It’s painful to us, in the global south, to see that American writers that we read assiduously, and take seriously, are not reading us. They are not listening when we say: “Please ask your president to stop killing us.” They appear to simply not see black and brown bodies beyond US borders.
...An unrealistic and ahistorical code has been invoked, of global solidarity among people of colour, to silence debate on the actual mass slaughter of black and brown bodies by the first black head of Empire. Gabeba Baderoon, South African professor of gender and African studies at Penn State University, calls this “the imperialism the US engenders, even in its citizens of colour”.
This response is both brilliant and tragic. There's nothing like American bombs falling on your village or town to cut through all the bullsh*t.
It is the ultimate takedown of Coates and his neoliberal defenders' worldview.
Comments
TOP would have West Gitmo'd if they could.
Same with Martin Luther King Jr. and Malcolm X, if either were alive today. Their support for the Goldwater Girl and their rehabilitation of Dubya are all you need to look at to prove the point.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
Tangential...
but Coates' reference to Obama being "our own Black shining prince", reminded me of some barf-inducing articles by supposed adults surrounding the recent engagement of Meghan Markle to Prince Harry. 'Our Black Princess' and some such. You can't get more Establishment than that.
(Edited)
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Yeah, I just wonder what Malcolm
would have to say about Obama. I'll bet he and Cornel would be in full agreement there. For Coates to use that epithet for Obama actually sort of offends me. Obama is no Malcolm or Cornel and never will be.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Did you read about the love fest for Trump today
after he signed the tax bill? First Pence gushed that he's so lucky that he's his Vice President. Then Hatch joined in and said that Trump is the best president in history of the country. Sure Orrin, as long as he will do your bidding on cutting the acreage of Bears Ears and sign your freaking tax bill, he will be your BFF. I guess Orrin forgot what he said about Trump and his sexual history and lifestyle before he became president. Orrin buddy, that's called hypocrisy.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
Unfortunately, I don't think Al does know any better. He
seems to be on a permanent anti-Democratic rant and won't take the time to educate himself on the subject.
Bernie's silence on the MIC and their pursuit of war was a also big disappointment to me up until fairly recently. However, he has now taken to speaking out on the subject fairly eloquently. I sent Al a link but he doesn't seem to have taken any notice.
Back on the subject, I completely agree with gjohnsit--great post!
chuck utzman
TULSI 2020
personal criticism aside
johnny come lately missed the boat we are sinking in.
Anti MIC Bernie?
If Mr. Sanders has of late been speaking out regarding the evils of American Imperialism, I'd be quite interested in reading of it. I don't believe I've heard of him doing so in the past. Could be that I've missed it? Enlightenment, please...
He was roundly applauded for his FP speach this fall.
Lots of coverage for it from left and right rags.
Not as far as we would have had him go but it's a start.
https://www.thenation.com/article/bernie-sanders-opened-a-new-foreign-po...
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Thanks, DO n/t
Pls send me the link, too.
Oh I get it!
You want to play team sports still. Huh. When "our" team not only gives up the damned ball but actually scores a touchdown for the other "team" we're supposed to believe in them? Just give them another chance and maybe they'll get it right? That goes against everything we talk about here so I doubt you get many takers on that.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Put me down as a complete and unbending admirer of Dr.West.
Which brings me to an exchange that I heard about. It may be true, it may be allegorical, but it's great. Around the time that Harry Belafonte (another of my heroes) was being very critical of then-President Obama they were face-to-face at a gathering...
Barack Obama: Harry, why don't you go easy on me?
Harry Belafonte: What makes you think I'm not?
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
Lol Belafonte ! Yus!
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
Wreckage of the Democratic Party
I love this clip, so powerful in its brutal honesty:
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKLz0mhGvKQ&t=139s]
Wow... what a quote
"I guess the reason I'm here is to look through the ravages of the Democratic Party and see if there's anything worth salvaging."
Well damn. Yeah, a lot of us are wondering that.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
And you'll also notice
Hillary wasn't laughing then.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
I see no one seems
to have learned anything from his diatribe. Sad!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
@Hillbilly Dem Holy shit, Mr. Belafonte
Holy shit, Mr. Belafonte. Uncompromising bravery.
And "why don't you go easy on me?" Seriously?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And just look at Coates, now getting
famous off of his "battle" with West. Wonder how those book sales are doing?
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
It's all too familiar
and takes me back to the women’s movement in the 70’s. There were those, like my bosses at the YWCA, who wanted equal pay, more career opportunities, & safe legal abortion. End of list.
The women I demonstrated with wanted more. We wanted an end to capitalism, racism, sexism, war. We wanted an economy where children were important, where peace prevailed, where poverty was eradicated, where all people were respected, where everyone felt safe.
HA! As it turned out both groups of feminists were stiffed. The ERA never did pass. Sexism has become what female losers blame their losses on. Abortion rights are constantly under attack. Women are still paid less than men. Sexual assault & harassment are worse. Capitalism has only gotten more toxic.
Rush Limbaugh (believe it or not) had it right back in 2008 when he called Barry a black man w/o a black man’s experience who would do nothing for black people. Well, actually, Obama went way beyond doing nothing, his & Her actions caused harm to untold (by our media)numbers of people of color.
That a black public intellectual can write books in support of BO is just one more mind-fuck in a gas-lit world.
May Cornell West prevail!
Have always been underwhelmed by Coates...
...while Cornell West has always been a hero, speaking truth to power. He sees the Neoliberal hegemony of US Empire for what it is, and was one of the first to see through Obama-- thus incurring the wrath of Neoliberals everywhere (see TOP).
For those who cited Harry Belafonte above, here is a nice little chat held between Harry and Noam Chomsky last year in NYC: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nFwE9Itzzes
Semper ubi sub ubi
What fascinates me here...
...is the support for Cornel West seems universal on this thread. Cornell's support for Bernie in 2016 was thorough and without hesitation. Yet some feel that Bernie was insufficiently robust in his criticism of ME wars and the MIC.
The self inflicted purity tests of the left are chronic and debilitating. I suppose Bernie should have ran as an Indie and constantly talked about the horrors of US empire building and regime changing ? That way, he would have cemented his position as best competitor to Jill Stein for the basement.
Are you saying
that Bernie played the game well?
He couldn't even call out the party he ran under. Then he supported it.
I don't look for purity. Yet to see a violation of his so-called principles and not call it out shows cowardice.
Oh, that's right. Never call out those you walk hand in hand with.
I will never support him again.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
He played the game at hand
He got screwed. Bernie has been an Independent all his life and until he ran as a Democrat for Pres, almost no one heard of him. He's been calling out Democrats all his life. So what, you're pissed that he didn't throw bombs after he lost ? What would that have done ? Insured Trump won the popular vote too ?
There was and is no progressive candidate for President other than Sanders. Now we get the inevitable cannibalism that consistently shows up. Cornel gets it, and that's why he supported Bernie.
@Blueslide He did get screwed.
He did get screwed. Then he endorsed and actively campaigned for the person doing the screwing. Then, after the election, he accepted a job as head recruiter for that person's allies.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Blueslide That's because, in this
That's because, in this fight, West is the one who's closer to speaking the truth. It's pretty difficult to debunk his fundamental criticism of Coates, which is "Who is `we?'" If "we" is supposed to be "Black people in this country," Coates is either blind, or hypocritical beyond belief.
"We" were in power, apparently, at the time Michael Brown was shot and Ferguson exploded. "We" were in power when Tamir Rice got shot--and when his killer was exonerated.
"We" were also in power at the time the Clintons were playing games with people's lives in Haiti, but, hey, they're just Haitians. Who the hell cares about Black people who weren't born in the United States.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Memories! My mother and father
had a huge row over his opposition to her going to work after the kids started school.
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
More than one way of cementing a position
You could, of course, sit there passively while the Democratic establishment fitted you with cement overshoes.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
"Purity test"??
I've come to flag that phrase, like many others, as a tool of neoliberalism in order to shut down intelligence conversation.
When someone disagrees with you their issues are not lesser than yours. The lines that they draw are not inferior to yours. They are not being "pure" when they honor those lines. Rather, they are acting with principle.
If you want to ally with such a person then it is incumbent on YOU to understand what their priorities are and figure out how those priorities align with your own. Then you need to present a shared vision encompasses both of you. Hurling insults is unlikely to achieve any useful result.
And you know what? I'm not nearly as hard on Bernie as some. I see a fair bit of grey area there. But I also see the black parts and I, for one, am unwilling to wipe away the death of millions as a "purity test".
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Hi, SBC! I'd like to 'borrow' part of your
comment to include in my repertoire of so-called 'signature lines.' That would include the subject line, and the next two paragraphs, as below,
Would you have any objection?
IMHO, it would do us all well--myself included, of course--to keep those words in mind as we share with one another, and (hopefully) seek common ground.
Thanks!
Mollie
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."--Lao Tzu
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Immortalized in signature. I'm flattered :)
More seriously though, that is the only way to ever build a bridge to someone else. You have to first understand THEIR view point and what drives them. Then you can try to craft some sort of shared vision which encompasses their goals and yours. Then presto... you are allied.
Trying to convince someone else to abandon their position and take yours is almost universally fruitless AND it yields inferior results. Much better to craft common positions and go for the "greater than the sum of it's parts" result.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Great--I'll take that as a 'yes.' Of course,
I'll make the attribution to 'SnappleBC.'
Got so excited, I left that part out of the quote, above.
Seriously, I take your point. And I'm embracing your quote in the most positive of ways--not as a jab at others who may disagree with my point of view.
I think the 'key' to all of us co-existing in harmony, is to understand and accept that we will have our differences. But, not to take it personally.
As I see it, someone's rejection of some of my ideas, and even my core beliefs, is not a rejection of me as a person--and vice versa. If we all work hard to embrace that notion, things will be alright--I hope.
Have a nice holiday!
Mollie
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."--Lao Tzu
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
"We Were Eight Years in Power."
Funny, I remember things differently than Coates does. For those 8 years that he thinks WE were in power, the republicans seemed to be the ones who had the power. Isn't this what we're constantly told when we criticize Obama for not passing legislation that would have helped main stream Americans? That if the republicans hadn't blocked him at every turn, he would have.
I remember the article on Obama that West wrote after his Nobel peace prize speech when he said that while he agreed with MLK's ways of non violence, King lived in a different world then what it is now. West tore him a new one for that.
“When out of fear you twist the lesser evil into the lie that it is something good, you eventually rob people of the capacity to distinguish between good and evil.”
~ Hannah Arendt
@snoopydawg Well, being "in power,"
Well, being "in power," doesn't mean, you know, actually promoting an agenda different from that of your enemies. It just means your ass is in the chair.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Yeah, it's lost all right.
Lost in West’s criticism of Coates is an insidious undercurrent that repeatedly asks, “Why does he talk about race so much?”
Given that West talks about race all the time.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Well, most importantly,
If "we" were in power for 8 years, why did the world, in 2016, look pretty much like George Bush's world?
I guess when "we" are in power the same policies get put in place as when President Jim Crow is in power.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thanks R.A.
Like I said above, there is a conflict between those supporting the democratic party and those that don't and I don't believe the two sides can really coexist on one blog.
In this case based on the majority of participants and most probably readers, the democratic party, and Bernie Sanders, has won. I will no longer fight that.
But don't leave, Big Al.
I don't want to fight the sexual harassment issue here either, but that doesn't mean something won't trigger me. We desperately need your voice - or let me clarify - I need your voice. That was my point. I need both sides - heck - ALL sides, otherwise I'm not well informed.
This is the beauty of c99p and has been said over and over - ALL voices need to be heard and disagreements will ensue, but that's part of the human condition and we get to take it to its fullest, here.
Please stay.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I'm kind of surprised at your read of this site
By my own utterly informal, seat of the pants estimate I'd say the Democratic party is incredibly unpopular around here. Sanders fares better but I'd be surprised if half the people are in favor of him. Even those who are in favor (myself, for instance) have an awful lot of hesitations.
I said in a different thread I'd work to get him elected. I take that back. I would do so after he explained his support of #Russiagate to me. Before that... I dunno.
Hell, I stopped funding this site and almost left myself after posting a tiny little bit of maybe around the idea that Maybe Russia DID have something to do with the hacking. I was quickly accused of being a DNC shill. Anti-Democratic party is one of the intellectual biases of this site in my opinion.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I'm 'guessing' that his support for Russiagate
stems from his position as the Senate Outreach Chair. Let's not forget, Bernie's a member of the Dem Leadership since November 2016.
According to the Senate Historical Office, he's "the first independent to hold a party leadership position since the modern leadership structure began in the early 20th Century." (per USA Today).
From what I've observed on the Sunday programs, it's likely that Bernie will be either 'the,' or 'a' key Dem Senator leading DT's impeachment proceedings.
(IIRC, he's not an attorney, so I imagine that he'll be the 'messenger' for the Dems, not a leading 'legal beagle,' as the expressions goes.)
IMO, (not a statement of fact--simply one of opinion) the entire Russia Ruse was cooked up for two purposes:
1) To help FSC 'save face' after her humiliating loss to DT; and,
2) To lay the grounds for his impeachment.
In the months to come, we'll get a better picture (as to whether this is a correct assumption), from following the Sunday political programs. I'll post the transcripts and links at EB, for those folks who don't watch those shows.
Mollie
"Being deeply loved by someone gives you strength, while loving someone deeply gives you courage."--Lao Tzu
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Yes well, political theater won't get my vote
I'm going to need him to explain why he ACTUALLY though Russia had significantly interfered in our election. I can allow him to be mistaken. But I cannot support or vote for someone who was willing to play chicken with WW3 for some cheap political theater.
And dear lord help him if he tries to tell me that a handful of Russian click-bait farms were KGB operations designed to destabilize the US with puppies.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
@SnappleBC Anti-Democratic party is one of the intellectual biases
of this site in my opinion.
We have our reasons.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Big Al Huh. Well, that's a
Huh. Well, that's a little odd, because people's responses on here, when told of Bernie's possible 2020 run, were less than enthusiastic, to say the least. The majority of commenters said they weren't comfortable supporting him.
Some of them may have reasons different than yours, but, still, that doesn't seem to indicate loyalty to the Democratic Party 2.0 (download the Bernie patch for optimal use).
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I would have a hard time sitting in Bernies seat
I know I wouldn't be 100% pure. I also don't hear the briefings he does before votes on military actions. Yellow cake, aluminum tubes, wmd, mobile bio weapons platforms, mushroom cloud, Hans Blix, Joe Wilson, Valerie Plame. Even at the seat of government it's untrustworthy Fox News level crap. I didn't like his vote on the Israel embassy thing, but maybe it will bust the charade that's been going on for the last 20 years, and the UN finally does something just to spite Trump. Bernies still better than most.
These are two completely different human beings
with individual thoughts and experiences from which they draw their perspectives. Neither is "wrong." They both have their truths. This is the issue with making a comparison when one us an apple and one is an orange. They are both fruit, but are completely different. Take your pick but agree to disagree.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
@Raggedy Ann
Perfect, and thank you!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
hmmmm. on one of alligtor ed's
diaries i'd mentioned to jTc that among the commentariat there were icons here who Should Not Be Challenged with Impunity. two i'd mentioned were saint bernie as a militarist (okay, he may have re-written himself), and ta-nehisi coates as estimable. i'd noted as well that some time ago here, many commenters seemed allergic to the notion that ours is a class-based system, including among people of various complexion colors.
but here is a longish class analysis from wsws.org, and i think the authors are correct. ‘Between the World and Me by Ta-Nehisi Coates: The dystopian vision of racial politics’, by Tom Eley and David Walsh, 15 October 2016; an excerpt or two:
“He deals in ahistorical and often inaccurate abstractions in part because he is the product and victim, in that sense, of the social process referred to above, the intellectual decline and increasing social indifference and insularity of a layer of the African-American petty-bourgeoisie. However, at a certain point, a figure such as Coates, who claims to be a keen observer of social life, has to accept a certain responsibility for what he writes about and what he does not write about.
Let’s consider the words and phrases that—astonishingly—do not appear once in Between the World and Me: “capitalism” (or “capitalist”), “working class,” “unemployment,” “oppression,” “repression,” “demonstration,” “trade unions,” “factory,” “economy,” “socialism,” “inequality,” “polarization,” “elite” [in the sense of ruling elite], “ruling,” “bourgeois,” “masses,” “left-wing,” “right-wing,” “imperialism,” “colonialism,” “globalization,” “transnational,” “multinational,” “oligarchy,” “plutocracy,” “aristocracy,” “cutback,” “welfare reform,” “affirmative action.” [long snip]
“With these comments, and others, Coates writes himself off as a figure who has anything truly insightful or compelling to say. He is not a “major new voice,” as the American media has claimed. As things stand, he is a minor talent under the influence of a retrograde and unworthy ideology. In his book, the smallness, backwardness and self-centeredness of the contemporary upper-middle class emerges. Between the World and Me is revealing, but not in a manner or for reasons that its author might like.”
but yeah; i reckon big al can take some push-back. civility is most sincerely in the eye of the beholder. (smile) try being a female blogger whom almost all men seem to want to order around...and correct.
Hey... if it's not too much bother
Could you make me a sandwich while I think about good topics for you to write about next?
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
@SnappleBC
ROFLMAO I think your snark tickled my funnybone; something like that said seriously would make my elbow twitch, so I suppose some reactions must be specific to the area...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
OK, completely off topic
Just last night my wife was, in fact, in the kitchen dressed in a wispy sexy thing making me a sandwich. Nobody exactly planned it like that, it just happened. I looked up and said, "Oh dear lord! Our marriage has become a cliche. Quick! Go put on some baggy sweats!"
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
@SnappleBC
Lol, I'd have been clichéd enough to have hurled the sandwich, under those circumstances! Cover the wispies, indeed! But, yeah, clichés do happen...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
lol x 3!
i'll gladly make you a sandwich, Snapple, but i'll wear my long-sleeved leopard print night-shirt (w/o the pillbox hat) as i do. but nah, it needs to be a far more direct command. i had quite a few detractors at my.firedoglake who would dog me by way of the site's dashboards like the mean gurl ankle-biters they were, and order me around. but in the end, a lot of that rubbish is why i moved into my own site, fearing my days there were...numbered.
it was bugging me that i couldn't remember a few of the things about brother west that had left a bad taste in my mouth, but certainly one was that he'd claimed that the bern was 'of the black prophetic tradition', aaarrggh. no, not so much, especially in terms of anti-war, military capacity, and tra la la. wouldn't the actual radical black prophets from the '30s onward have turned in their graves? now this is dated, of course, and as some folks have indicated here, he's 'evolved' or something. if i could be sure not to blow a video embed, i would, but i'll need to bring this whole mess instead: ‘Bernie Hearts Drone Assassinations, but with One Proviso’, September 7, 2015, café babylon
merry holidays if you're able, snapple.
WD - your (blog) photo slideshow is gorgeous--
the colors of the various flowers so vibrant and striking.
Didn't see the beautiful photos of your backyard wild critters, though--hope they've not been removed from the lineup.
BTW, glad to see you check in with us. Have a nice day tomorrow--hope it's not too frigid in your neck of the woods.
“I believe in the redemptive powers of a dog’s love. It is in recognition of each dog’s potential to lift the human spirit, and, therefore, to change society for the better, that I fight to make sure every street dog has its day.”
--Stasha Wong, Secretary, Save Our Street Dogs (SOSD)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
some photos of the 4-leggeds
are still up. but they don't lend themselves to those banner dimensions as well. keep clicking the banner, you'll see some, though.
a good christmas to you as well, blue. crikey, it's 45 degrees here, and dry dry dry....so dry. scary dry once again.
We’ve all shared in or created drama in our lives.
At this point I don’t get why we still do. Yeah, I get that it may still feel enlivening at times; but damn if I get it’s purpose ; ).
To new days and positive vibrations …
[video:https://youtu.be/V17_RumSEDE]
@janis b
I suspect that at least part is due to our having been programmed into what's become 'normalized' social division - to more readily reject the 'different other', this tendency having been propaganda-instilled precisely so that we often cannot easily discuss and work around our differences enough to unite in common cause where it really matters. And that those here are typically less prone than others to actually hurling out the baby with the bathwater, although the 'reject difference' reaction might still be more easily triggered than it otherwise might be, even if not acted upon.
Certainly, there are other factors playing into this, ranging from the fact that we've all been burnt before by various attitudes/groups/politicians, etc., to the stress of coping with an inundation of ever-increasing for-stolen-profit/power-inflicted daily disaster in what seems an impossible situation and the incoming onslaught of ever more, manufactured crisis instituted by multiple bad actors running governmental policy - much too much to list. And much too much for anyone to cope with without profound effects, one way or another.
My hope and belief is that the balanced, intelligent and informed people I read on this site are capable of coping even with all of this well enough to keep trucking and that, far from giving in/running away from facing our differences within this community, we shall overcome.
We stand closer when reaching out to each other, than when lashing out at points where our views/strategies diverge or where points perhaps poorly phrased result in misunderstanding - and if we fail to stand together in mutual support of our essential shared goals, we fall, so easily...
There are certainly enough very good minds with varied input/perspectives/areas of expertise gathering here for the provision of information gathering and dispersal, creative/independent thought outside the Two-Party and other boxes and for generally brainstorming some potentially very powerful ideas, although we need not to aim our generated thunderbolts at each other over differing viewpoints or preferred pacific approaches toward defeating our vampiric oppressors as Powers That Shouldn't Be.
Our anger and energy needs to be fruitfully directed in order to bring positive change, that being about all many of us have remaining to use. And any chance we waste may have been our last.
We still have 'now', and I hope that we use it to the advantage of the survival of Earth Life, Democracy/Civilization And Everything in the Universe which we, as humans, need, love and see potential for.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I very much appreciate your perspective on this.
It is very thoughtful and positive. I think we here do have the capacity to filter and redirect the profound effects of manufactured crisis, thankfully. Thank you.
I think there is a difference between the DNC establishment
And many Democratic voters and politicians who don't see an alternative, at the moment, to the duopoly and who see a huge danger to the World in Trump. Barbara Lee, for instance, has been more anti-war than, I think, any other politician in Washington and she's not considering leaving the Democratic party as far as I can see. The same is true for everybody involved with My Revolution. Good changes don't happen instantaneously. Bloodshed and dictatorship or violent anarchy often result from impatience for change. Maybe the political process needs to be cut some slack.
Beware the bullshit factories.
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