Thursday Open Thread 10-19-2017
Livestock greatest value in advancing human civilization has not been meat. Large scale factory farms for meat and egg production is a development of modern farming, transportation and refrigeration. Prior to the development of artificial fibers, chemical fertilizers, plastics and tractors our farm animals were the source for the products of daily living and assisted us in growing crops.
The Animal As Our Farming Partner
In the Far East, in particular, farming and gardening have followed the lead given to us by Mother Earth. Great stress has always been laid on the preservation of live stock and on the fullest use of the waste products of the animal. In India, for example, the cow is looked upon as sacred and its preservation is welded into one of the great religions of this continent. In this way the slaughter of the cattle (maintained for work, for milk, and for manure) in times of scarcity has been prevented: the cow-dung essential for the rice nurseries has been safeguarded: the manure needed for such vital crops as vegetables, fruit, sugar-cane, and vine has been provided.
Horses were our partners in war.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQZGvxM_Dq0]
Some animals display their independent thinking and sense of responsibility. The story of Odin and his goats surviving the California wildfires.
Others their irresponsibility.
Cattle decided to do some exploring this afternoon. When they noticed me walking up to retrieve them, the younger ones took off running for the night pen.
The oldest one calmly stayed hidden in the trees.
After noticing I spotted her she calmly sauntered down the hill.
Sheep were probably the first domesticated livestock.
Even before 10,000 BC wool cloth was being spun and woven by the tribes of northern Europe. To spin it they took the wool in one hand and drew it out, twisting it into a thread with the fingers of the other hand
Freshly shorn fleece. The coming rain will do the first wash cycle.
Timeline of domesticating animals.
If you missed it Yesterday's Open Thread by Can't Stop the Macedonian Signal has some great information on blueberries.
Farm Report
Start of the day
Irrigation water was turned off this week.
Pick up the system for winter.
Snow pack starting to collect for next years irrigation season.
Mt Jefferson
Mt Hood
Comments
goat saver
thanks SOE, the hero dog story just made my day. wish some people would be as noble as our friends in the animal kingdom.
question everything
Animal behavior and communication is complex
and not always by the same moral rules humans claim to understand and follow. Interesting theory on dog domestication has been proposed - We Didn’t Domesticate Dogs. They Domesticated Us.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Fleece
What do you do with the fleece?
I like the hero dog and the "putting the cows to bed" stories.
Thanks.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Evolving answer
Originally sold it to spinners, then learned to do my own fiber projects - spin, felt, weave, knit, etc. Discovered it is an amazing resource we abandoned for modern materials. Now experimenting with it to replace modern material for use on the farm and in the home. Have replaced all polyfiber dog beds and chair cushions. Insulates the underground pipes better than fiberglass. Use as a mulch and ground cover to lower water needs. Been thinking about how to use it as an underground water storage for extended water release.
Working with it has lessened my dependency on modern commercial culture, was not my intent. Originally got sheep to train trial dogs as a hobby. Removing the wool was simply a health issue. Beginning to wonder if as agriculture moved towards monoculture of plant crops we created a monoculture of humans. Maybe it was our relationship with animals that made us better beings.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Makes me want to raise sheep . . .
You would think it would be too hot for them here, but there are several flocks in the area.
Really amazing all of the uses you are finding for the fleece. Inspirational!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I saw a film about asian farms and the water buffalo
...but I can't find it on youtube (I saw it years ago)
The water buffalo was domesticated in SE Asia 1000's of years ago, and it plays an important role in their culture even today.
http://schools-wikipedia.org/wp/d/Domestic_buffalo.htm
Sadly they are being replaced by machines much as the tractor replaced the mule and horse.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZslRMehP_E (3 min)
But just like in the states there are situations where a tractor won't do. Check out this plowing environment and imagine getting your tractor there. (1 min)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5GFlN-v7D9Q
Here's an entire community working a rice paddy with buffalo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Sb15wYdy8k (1 min)
Of course what we call a buffalo is really a Bison, and they roamed from here in Alabama to the Pacific NW.
The last old feller up the valley that worked a mule was asked "Cuz, why you still fooling that old mule?" Cuz replied, "I needs him to plow my corn." "Why you fooling with growing a patch of corn?" Cuz:"I gots to have something to feed my mule." So round we go...
With stories like Odin and the goats it is easy to see why we become emotionally attached to our animals. That was really Cuz story too....he loved that old mule.
Here's to finding love among us all! Have a good one.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Beast of burden or working partnership
Animal power and manure helped man increase crop yield to facilitate population growth. Listening to them increase our communication with the cosmos as we learn to connect with what surrounds us. It is harder to communicate with a plant.
Understand Cuz's circle. The animals help me improve the soil and grow grass to feed them.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Thanks for the water buffalo info . . . cool
Hope to follow your links later.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Crowded goat hooves denude landscape, dirt doesn't burn
Sorry I don't see much reporting about the ecology of this disaster, with factual information, or even some thoughtful speculation about future action. Notice in the linked photo, Odin and the goats were already down to dirt. They were lucky to survive the heat and smoke, but why speculate the dog led the goats somewhere? For the feelz I guess. It is not a news story, it's another emotional ride for clicks, page views for profit. People are running around talking a lot about nothing everywhere. Sensational headlines galore. I don't find it helpful, maybe because I'm in Sonoma County, been watching Ds and Rs take it apart at the seams for decades. Wrong way bummer.
The Safari West tale was "employee saves zoo with garden hose" emotional crap. That place is acres and acres of oak woodland stripped bare, no grass, no leaves below six feet or so. Then it becomes nightmare in winter when it rains, clogging the watershed since years. Love the lemurs, giraffes, gnus, and rhinos, but not in Sonoma County hell no. Wild animal prisons, zoos should be illegal, that's what I think. Place is a mess, but I saw a Firefox? Not worth it.
Goat herds done right can be fantastic fire protection, if only California pols would care about the ecology, it is the economy, whereas the chamber of commerce is death. They are for prison profits instead, further collapse means future profit, and growth.
I learned a lot from this disaster, had no idea the entire Emergency Alert System had been outsourced to a bunch of inadequate web contracts, and facebook. Don't know why I assumed otherwise, everything else has been sold off to public/private failures, because that is where the lobbyists live and the politicians "make good personal investment decisions". Constituents left to die in a fire, eat cake why not. Officials decided not use the cell phone alert system because they had not purchased the correct add-on to filter by area, and did not want to panic all of the Idiocracy, just parts of it. Afraid people would not read beyond "Evacuation Order", as if they had no control over the content of the message. That seems critically stupid to me, I don't know all the facts. Was there never a drill about it, never a scenario? Huh.
Just kill me now. Sonoma County used to have a TeleComm Valley, I guess they were just a bunch of purchase agents or proprietary software rip-offs too. How embarrassing to not even be able to educate and train enough of your own citizens to maintain a regional alert system, one protected from corporate insecurity, designed with the ecology in mind, not some off-the-shelf meh-ware designed for nobody, collecting rent forever or as long as the contract lasts. And then what? New wheel, stat! Stupid.
Janet Napolitano as UC Regent for the win, maybe she's stinking rich from "smart personal investment decisions" now too. "Is our children learning?" NOPE
I should be in hospital, but there isn't one. There is only jail for mental health emergencies now, and I don't like breaking the law. Seems like I'm the only person left who cares about the law around here, everyone else just says fuck it and does whatever the fuck they want. Hence my mental state of emergency, there is no "there" there. The people in charge really have left granny in the ditch, it is not a dress rehearsal it is real. Seems kinda HyperNormal to me. This too shall pass? Hope so.
good luck
Eyo, I'm sorry things are so grim for
you right now. You will be in my thoughts and on my heart.
Eyo . . . me too . . .
Didn't know that about the Emergency Alert system. I don't think it has gone to hell in Texas yet since the weather radio still seems to be working and we did get phone calls during the last tornado warning.
However, the dude nominated to head NOAA is from AccuWeather, which I have always called the climate change denying weather service.
So sorry for your situation.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Odin chose to stay with the goats, not
the humans in the face of immediate danger. To me that is the value of the story. The spin on how they survived is human rationalization. Yes, the humans are using animals for economic gain. The lack of fuel load was probably a major factor in their survival. Use my own livestock to reduce fuel load.
Real information on the rolling disasters across the country is hard to find. We have been conditioned to expect the cavalry to swoop in and save us from danger at the last minute. I quite believing in the myth years ago. Simply assess where one is at and plod on from the new starting point. Life is a marathon, with occasional sprints.
Since so many of us are experiencing local environmental disasters it becomes harder to hide the growing incompetence of response due to outsourcing to technology and human actions increasing the severity. Some flooding in Texas was unavoidable, the toxic chemical soup in the water was totally due to human activity.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
I am still stuck on the people, have not yet processed wildlife
... or the domestic animal losses. Sorry to be a drag in the comments studentofearth, didn't mean to sound like me, it is too soon to talk about stuff or maybe I just shouldn't. Now that I could speak again, barely, I find there is a lot to say about the sad state of affairs. What's the point? I don't know, it is the same everywhere apparently. Never mind.
Good dog story, thanks.
ciao
No apology, if we do not talk about
our local experiences related to degradation of the social safety net and human activity worsening natural disasters the problems remain hidden.
My comment on regarding many areas of the country being effected was to highlight the difficulty of mass media and government to suppress so many individual voices relating similar experiences. Keep talking - the stories need to be told. It might help move more of us to action.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
I love the pictures
And your stories about your animals. Animals can be so funny sometimes. Sounds like yours are better behaved than my grands are at times. They did go where supposed to without being dragged.
They think I am stronger and smarter than them
Three reasons:
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Can't resist posting a couple of pics . . .
So far I have picked 11 of those 3 ft long cucuzza squash. Gave away 4. Been experimenting. And the Japanese eggplants really came back to life.
Today I made a stew with the cucuzza and a casserole with the eggplant.
Link to stew recipe: https://thehealthyfamilyandhome.com/italian-cucuzza-squash-stew/
The eggplant casserole is similar to one I liked as a child. It has soda crackers in it.
Edited to add: They don't look like much, but were really delicious IMO. The stew has Italian sausage. Mmmmmmm . . .
Wishing everyone a good and better weekend.
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Impressed by the harvest
The easiest method to cooking great food is to being able to start with great ingredients.
Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.
Why lack of fire prevention and critical maintenance bugs me
so much, so very much. Most of California is a burn area, should be control burned every season as is appropriate. Grandparents show up in California history books and stuff, cousin is a Sonoma County Superior Court Judge, I read about his co-worker's house being destroyed by the Tubbs fire recently.
California Conservation Corps Class of '78. Murphys, California
Mona and I are inside the thin red circle. She was my bunk mate from Hollywood and new the Van Halen brothers, thought they were garbage. David Lee Roth, omg we laughed our asses off at those guys. Running with Devil? Shit, Mona talked about all her dead friends on Memorial Day, shot down on the streets of LA for smoking crack or whatever. Roth was an idiot in tights. heh
Anyway, the point is back then every corps member had to pass these requirements to graduate and complete their one year contract, for room and board plus a monthly stipend. $345 in 1978 if I recall correctly. Pretty skimpy but they trained our asses off for six weeks, and deployed us to a real live fire in Humboldt upon completion. Now only elite corps members are expected to pass, the camps are cut way back, employment restricted. Why? Because money, training costs money and the system is starved for money. Why are politicians and landlords so rich now, and everyone else so friggin' stressed out? Why aren't there suburban fire crews in every neighborhood? WTF did they think would happen in all that "open space" they preserved? No progress, no sustainability, just ever lower standards of living. Nouveau poor.
Politically active and paying taxes in California for more than forty years, all I got was a hundred lousy billionaires. Plus an astounding lack of infrastructure planning and maintenance, it's what happens when governed by lobbyists, nothing is connected and chaos eventually ensues. All those years I spent agitating, voting, campaigning, working, marching, protesting, and for what? More homelessness, poverty, despair. Environmental degradation, and now yet another big disaster. What could have been greatly mitigated is stuck up some excuses ass somewhere nobody can find it under all the dirty money. That bugs me.
My grandpa, Franklin Griffin worked for Hiram Johnson when he was Governor. Phil Angeledes is full of it, Feinstein is no Hiram Johnson, I think she's the opposite. Johnson was an anti-corruption crusader, Feinstein and Blum are the epitome of corruption, "that's just politics" now for California Ds and Rs alike. They count on the Idiocracy to be ignorant of history, goal achieved.
Democrats strike back at Feinstein challengers
Omg the b.s. from Ds is at drowning height now, I can't even... glub glub. Hiram Johnson was a Republican, in case you didn't know. He was a Bull Moose Progressive, but he was never a Democrat. Way to go Phil.
good luck
Might you write an essay about your local experiences?
Your comments are so packed with insight and information. Could you put them in an essay so more folks would learn what you know? Better exposure in an essay?
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
Thanks for saying "insight and information"
instead of rant. My Inner Book of Rants comes alive, there is no ignoring it, especially when the outer world comes apart. Even though I grew up in a politically active household, now there's no support system left, no functional family, no friends, but I have neighbors. can't get away from the neighbors. And a keyboard, I still have a kbd and a computer in a room connected to a copper phone line to the Internets where c99 lives. A room with a view. I can't write essays worth beans, but thanks for being kind to suggest it.
It rained last night so the fires will be contained soon, on their way out. All the evacs have lifted, people are returning to what did not burn. Something else will rise from the ashes.
Back to you Marilyn,
Please post more garden photos and recipes and stories. They really cheer me up. And these farm reports, I drink in everything. It is so great I go over the top and can't even find words to explain in a comment. Like soe just patiently waiting there for the cow to come on down, and then it does. I took care of two pet goats down in Petaluma, Nubians lol. We used to mow parts of the property with them staked out on long dog leads. They were unruly and funny. I love farm animals, miss caring for them and shepherding them around. Y'all provide what I seek.
thanks
Maybe lots of us are lonely here . . .
Growing older. All that stuff is gone.
Family. Culture (upper midwest ethnic feminist large family gatherings organic). Gone.
A thousand miles away with my second husband (nice guy) and the two kids I gave birth to in my 40s. And an extra teenager. They never met most of my family.
Kids said, "mom . . . show us pictures of you when you were younger." After, my son said, "you ate my mother." LOL - into bodybuilding in the 80s.
Yes. This is the crisis of all that stuff being gone. It's hard.
Breakthrough has come in gardening and starting to celebrate holidays with our next door neighbors. And letting go. It is hard to let go. Really hard. Can't say I have done it yet.
I still say you ought to write essays. Your comments are always beautiful. Of course there are some fabulous writers here at c99 and you are definitely equal to them.
And we have the Linux thing in common. Although I have never done much with Slackware. I love it. So great to install software by typing . . . alt-get install gimp . . .
Hope you find a cool neighbor or someone. Or maybe an Elmer.
Elmer was found at a construction site at about 2 weeks old and I ended up with him. My first thought was, "Fuck. Another animal to take care of." I had to bottle feed him of course. But that emotion dissipated pretty quickly. He turned out to be an unexpected gift. Although he bites the hell out of me in his playful mood, the rest of the time he is purring and snuggling.
Anyway, my wishes for you are that there will appear some unexpected light. Some bright distraction. Beauty.
I hope you get this since it is a day after the original post.
I appreciate you!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo