Questions We Are Not Supposed to Remember
Remember the days after September 11, 2001; where the admins at dkos warned us to never question, "The Official Story"?
Or remember the days that followed - well, all sorts of various tragedies - when we were told, "Not yet, it's too soon." And when enough time had passed, well gosh golly, that's old news. And anyhow, you don't want to spread conspiracy theories, do you?
Now, there's a new site (here) and a new policy. There's another tragedy, and more questions unanswered, and other questions not being asked at all, and maybe you or I have a question. Yet some of us are being rather quiet. And some of us are - I hate using the term - gun-shy. Especially when so many bodies haven't even been buried yet. "Asking questions means not showing respect to the mourners," says politeness. But being buried quickly with forgotten - important - questions is not a kindness to the dead. At least the Internets could remember, perhaps. Are there sites that care about unvarnished truth?
Of course there are sites that welcome almost anything. The problem is, those sites usually turn into absurdity or ugliness. At the best, they offer theories like Queen Elizabeth II being a reptile. At the worst? Well, imagine the worst site in the world, then multiply that times 10. There is a lot of luggage packed when a tragedy takes a voyage.
So watch the latest major tragedy as its story gels. When somebody official says, "Oh that's because X or Y or Z," maybe ask yourself, "Really?" And make a note in your mind about whatever was important or interesting about the tragedy - before it's deleted.
Comments
I'm sorry...
I totally missed this. Maybe I'm just tired.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Was The Orange Dead State
even a place in 2001?
I remember finding Little Nap's abode somewhere around 2003-4 and wading through his bad piano music.
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
Little Nap
Lol
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Sorry - Clumsy Wording
"Remember the days after September 11, 2001" might have been better worded. Still, between September 11, 2001, and February, 2005, (when I joined dkos) there was a little less than 3 1/2 years. The major anti-conspiracy example back then was still September 11, 2001.
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
Correctamundo!
It wasn't a place at that time. Of course, there could have been a conspiracy to erase our memories so that we don't really know when DKos began...
'French theory is a product of US cultural imperialism." -- Gabriel Rockhill
Damn Ruskies at it again.
Obviously.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
I haven't seen any "alternative" theories on this one,
so far it seems to be pretty straight forward crazy dude shoots people. I saw the bogus ISIS claim early, some shit about being a Trump hater or lover?, but nothing about being mind controlled by the govt, or anything like that.
The questions haven't been there yet for me other than wtf he was thinking and what the government and public response will be.
But I'm always more than willing to review all available information.
A few things - maybe
Washington Post:
The fact that Ms Danley was not in the US during the shooting is what? Evidence? To make such a firm statement that she "was not involved in the shooting" based on being in Tokyo that day seems like a weak case.
Also, before Ms Danley closed her facebook page, (or somebody closed her facebook page) there was Ms Danley in a picture of her in a black long-sleeved (what, beach wear?) and a caption saying 'Dubai is lovely - but very hot.' And then adding that her niece lived in Dubai, and planned to visit her when she came back the next time.
If I were playing Sherlock Holmes, I'd have several potential clues right there.
And as far as the shooter having a change of his religion, is that such an outrageous possibility? According to Pew, "Muslims are projected to grow faster than the world’s overall population." Those numbers come from somewhere.
And then there is the 32nd floor suite. According to some stories, the shooter booked the suite before the festival was announced (just a few days? doesn't make sense - but maybe Las Vegas has its own music rules). And what song was the headliner playing when the shooting started? Haven't found out the name of the song. But if 'meaningful' slaughter was the goal, wouldn't the name of the song or some part of the lyrics be a clue?
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
@jabney
To the very rich, wouldn't $100,000 be pretty much what my mother used to call 'pin money' for traveling abroad?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
This website brings up some inconsistencies
about the person who did the shooting and speaks about his time spent days before the shooting.
First they say that his girlfriend is a person of interest, but then they rule her out pretty quickly. How did they make this decision so fast? This is a dang good question IMO.
5 Glaring Inconsistencies In The Vegas Shooting That Need To Be Addressed
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
Indeed.
Indeed they are head scratchers.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
amateur videos
amateur videos -Iphone stuff- purport to show gun shot flashes coming from 4th floor window. lack of forensics proving angle of bullets. police scanner mentions other shooters, other floors, witness woman interviewed on camera talks of being forewarned. broken 32 floor windows appear to be far apart for single suite. ease with which all information is controlled by authorities, lack of photograph/video evidence from inside hotel. lack of motive by alleged, now dead, gunman. official story wrapped up pretty quick. move along nothing to see here.
bygorry
Alternative theories
I'm seeing "alternative" theories discussed on social media, meaning alternatives to the official line being offered by the authorities.
Apparently there are people who took videos during the incident that purport to show more than one line of fire. (In other words, shots being fired from other locations than Stephen Paddock's room.)
Also, law enforcement says Paddock was dead when they got to his room. So he can't talk. LE says he's definitely the one and only perpetrator. We're relying on the authorities, as conveyed via MSM, to tell us the truth. Should we be doing so?
I got rid of my TV a long time ago, so I haven't been immersed in the Las Vegas shooting the way many people have. I'm reading about it online, but am deliberately avoiding watching and listening to video reports. I've read about the alleged perpetrator's past and his family history. But in general, I'm trying not to get caught up in the drama, in order to keep my mind clear.
My motto in life right now is "question everything". It amazes me (although by now, I guess it shouldn't amaze me :P) how the majority of folks just follow along the path pointed out to them, without questioning.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
@Centaurea If you're questioning -
If you're questioning - read David Talbot's biography of Allen Dulles, "The Devil's Chessboard".
I caught Savage Nation
with "Dr. Savage" today while running chores. He was talking about the Vegas shooting in terms of CT. He's pretty much convinced there was more than one shooter, and was an ISIS /Islamist Terrist event. I believe this is the CT @jabney is talking about (and MSM isn't). And Savage kinda makes sense. At least about the more than one shooter. Not that one lone gunman couldn't pull it off. Prolly could. But... makes for a good CT.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
CT really gets a bum rap these days.
Any investigation that does not consider the possibility of more than one person being involved (aka. conspiracy theory) is not a proper investigation. Speculation is also an investigative tool. Hopefully the investigators working on the LV are considering all possibilities and using all the tools of their profession to find out the truth behind the LV shootings.
In our popular lexicon CT has become a term of disparagement, something used by TPTB to tamp down any exploration of possibilities that do not fit their accepted narratives. That is unfortunate.
“What the herd hates most is the one who thinks differently; it is not so much the opinion itself, but the audacity of wanting to think for themselves, something that they do not know how to do.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
The establishment TV series remake of Sherlock Holmes:
Whaddaya know, yet another episode where Inspector Lestrade was right all along and Watson has to lead a deflated Holmes away after getting his comeuppance for ever doubting officials and their friends in the media.
@Wink Savage is scum, and
Savage is scum, and there is no evidence of more than one shooter. No one reported hearing more than one gun at a time, either.
A grifter, true, but
he's easier on the ears than most other RW hacks, and is less partisan than other hacks.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Taxi driver's video
The video appears near the bottom of this link. It was shot by a cab driver who was lined up in the cab queue at the Mandalay hotel. She was also on the radio with her dispatcher at the time when the shooting began. Two things should be noted. First, there appears to be two separate sets of gunfire based upon the audio in the video. I have read where some have explained that as an echo, but they sound different to me. The second thing to note is that the driver herself says that the gunfire appears to be coming from about the 10th floor of the hotel, not the 32nd floor where Paddock had his suite.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98 Were the windows on the
Were the windows on the 10th floor broken?
No chemtrail theories yet?
They will come. I don't know where the LV airport is. I have never been there. But I have suffered through city lights at night and big jets leaving Louisville SDF at 4 AM. UPS departures with cargo. On a twin-size mattress bought when I was a kid.
A fresh 55 outside, sun illuminating treetops still green. I wish I had a drone to find the location of a tree that sticks out of my hillside, taller than the rest.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Here's a story from the Guardian
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/oct/04/las-vegas-shooting-youtu...
that to me suggests that those whose organizations favor guns would favor a lot of alternative truths.
I'm sure there are those who are using this tragedy to
gain traction on whatever their interests are. The thing I don't see is the need. I saw a need with 9/11 and some of the other false flags. Here I don't see one and haven't seen anyone give a good reason for one.
Agree. Meanwhile, because making up a personal actuality
and promoting it as real for all is something almost anyone can do these days, especially in situations like this where so much is not known or even knowable.
I am seeing on "this site" lots of questions.
May you are used to hundreds of comments.
Here, on a good day, it is dozens.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
IMO, in general,
We should question everything. If we do not, then we are not using our brains to the fullest extent.
As far as who or what you are referencing in your essay, I am confused.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
It Can be Re-Used
Time after time.
People start to notice when a big story has holes. Even small holes. The USSR allowed the lies to get so big, that the whole thing broke eventually.
In the USA, anything that could replace our government would be far worse. So when we find small holes, remember the little boy plugging the dike. Patching is the only answer. IMHO.
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
Why not simply follow the evidence and ask questions?
There's quite a bit of unpacking to do in this statement, but it sounds like you are saying that unearthing the truth is is more dangerous than blindly accepting a premature conclusion. I would maintain that it is far more dangerous to proceed without a critical examination of all the facts. In our democracy an informed electorate is essential to providing a check on government run amok. Half truths and propaganda may serve the interests of the government, but they do not serve democracy.
Globally and nationally we are facing a series of social, economic and environmental challenges. Changing to meet those challenges is the key to our long term survival and the viability of the entire ecosystem. Patching our deeply dysfunctional democracy and disregarding the truth, whatever that may turn out to be, is not going to help at all.
“What the herd hates most is the one who thinks differently; it is not so much the opinion itself, but the audacity of wanting to think for themselves, something that they do not know how to do.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
Patching Cannot Be Done by Lies
And changing one lie to another lie is not helpful.
Look at the 'semi-official' story of the Tampa tragedy. People are very careful to say "It's 49 victims, not 50" and yet the US President was very precise to say "The lesbian" victims while he mumbled quickly past the name of the group that suffered the most in the tragedy: the gay men. Or follow the official and non-official coverage of the Tampa killings: from a 'major gay tragedy done by a muslim male,' it turns into an 'LBTQ shooting done by some gay guy.' Why? Because the male killer went to the gay bar before the killings - with his female wife.
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
it's no wonder that so many people
are distrustful of any and all official stories that the USG propagates. The 9/11 myth for example, is as full of holes as Swiss cheese -- yet they're still trying to pass it off as fact. And that particular whopper is far from the only one. The list of officially sanctioned bullshit that Americans have been expected to accept is long, disgraceful, and often disgusting.
So that by now, even when msm report events truthfully (which they still do, occasionally) millions of people are disinclined to believe them. Far too many "conspiracy theories" have proven to be true, and far too many "official stories" have proven to be deliberately false... and/or intentionally misleading. The truth is up for grabs, if we can even find it. It often appears in disguise, and the factoids presented piecemeal by msm may or may not be reliable.
native
Something like this always happens...
And the PTB plan for it.
That's my conspiracy theory. I don't claim they fund and set the guy up. I claim they have plans, READY TO GO, the instant something like this happens.
It's pretty much a statistical certainty. And every time it happens they grab a little more of our freedoms. (Not Guns though. As long as the guns are on the street, it justifies grabbing every OTHER freedom.)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
statistical certainty
there are crazies out there.
many have guns.
they won't give them up.
some will go shoot people.
how do we put millions of guns back in the bottle?
a puzzler.
some of those weapons are buried in the woods.
@detroitmechworks Read 'The shock doctrine'
Read 'The shock doctrine' about plans being ready...
There's a new policy?
A policy for or against questions? I'm not sure what you mean to communicate.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Policy - for More Freedom
As opposed to dkos. However, using that freedom is another matter.
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
How would you like to use
Your freedom here?
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
How?
I plan to use my freedom with efficiency - when I can. (That's not easy, because writing with aphasia takes effort, sometimes.) I plan to speak the truth - when I'm pretty sure it is true. And if what I say turns out wrong, I hope I can say so.
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long
Then I support you in that effort :-)
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
Hopefully the "official story" follows an investigation.
That should take months, and should include the possibility of a larger conspiracy and affiliations with anti government groups as well as possible connections to terrorist organizations and government covert operations.
Realistically, that's not likely going to happen. The narrative is already being written.
“What the herd hates most is the one who thinks differently; it is not so much the opinion itself, but the audacity of wanting to think for themselves, something that they do not know how to do.”
-Arthur Schopenhauer (1788-1860)
"Listen Mohammad, all you gotta do is push that button
and that explosive laden van is gonna blow. Are you sure you wanna kill a bunch of Portlanders?"
Question Authority, always.
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
64 thousand dollar question
Was Stephen Paddock a member of the NRA?
Neither Russia nor China is our enemy.
Neither Iran nor Venezuela are threatening America.
Cuba is a dead horse, stop beating it.
The spokeswoman for the NRA has released two videos
that were very inflammatory and she released another one today after Hillary said that if the shooter had used a silencer, more people would have been killed. She is right about this. When the shooting started people thought it was fireworks but then people started falling and the gunfire was unmistakable. The republicans were supposed to vote on whether silencers should be sold to the public. I see no other reason to have one unless you are going to do something against the law. Seriously, can anyone think of a reason why people would need to have one?
There are quite a few videos that captured the sound of the gun. A few veterans spoke about the sound and said it sounded like a war zone. I can't begin to imagine what it must have been like for the people who were there. How do they recover from this?
Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.
Voting is like driving with a toy steering wheel.
I went down a pretty deep
wingnut rabbit hole on twitter today about an alternate theory.
Paddock is a secret FBI agent who was involved in an arms deal selling weapons to an ISIS cell here in the US. He got made and the whole thing was going to be exposed and embarrass the FBI so they let ISIS set him up. So ISIS met him in the hotel room under the pretense of buying the guns, but instead they killed him and they were the ones shooting out of the windows... then they all got away (and the FBI let them to avoid having their op exposed).
I love this stuff. I don't believe any of it, but enjoy it for the same reason I enjoy watching shows like Ancient Aliens - pure entertainment.
I don't believe everything they tell us, but I believe that if they are hiding something from us it stays pretty well hidden and we rarely find out the real truth.
What makes people crazy?
Thanks jabney, thanks for asking. Keep asking, that's what I say. I want answers.
What drives people to do insane things?
-Money
-Love
-Religion
-?
-The guy's dad was psycho too, add DNA.
Top it off with easy access to massacre tools, voila. That's what I've gleaned so far, but like others I don't watch TV or listen to MSM, viewing portal is pretty small to keep my own sanity. Barely. I think speculation helps get past the trauma a little bit, everyone wants to know why these things happen. The government response has been constantly wrong so far, no progress. Look at my list, anyone on earth can snap at any time when you look at it, it's "normal" now.
good luck
" easy access to massacre tools"
the critical ingredient.
the rest follows as a matter of probability.
(No subject)
No object, no predicate, no verb either.
And an Oxford comma missing above.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
!!
Here’s one of those “list of unanswered questions” articles
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-10-04/16-unanswered-questions-about-l...
That's a pretty good list.
I cringe about the Antifa, but for all I know, Antifa is a real deal. The certainty is I seriously do not know shit about Antifa, or this mass shooting.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
My personal favorite is the BS about 'crisis actors'...
Every time there's a fuckin' mass shooting, there are always idiots screaming about people in the crowds hired by the gubmint as crisis actors. Hell, there were people out there saying there were no kids in the Sandy Hook massacre after it went down.
Asking questions is one thing. Blatantly spreading absurd bullshit a la Alex Jones and trivializing tragedy for money as Jones and his ilk do is another.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
There’s asking questions.
Then there’s “just asking questions,” where you frame wild accusations and unhinged speculation in the form of a question.
If someone believes that all politicians are protean reptilian aliens, do you think they are asking questions because they want to discover more information on the matter so that they can form a different opinion on the matter?
Now, as for the shooting in Las Vegas, how about that conspiracy from the far right that the shooter was a member of antifa.
Question everything.
Anything that doesn’t fit one’s world view or conform to one’s deeply held beliefs must be questioned.
Thanks for the essay and the
Thanks for the essay and the excellent points.
We need to start remembering history and changing the unfortunate history that might be by questioning authority already known to lie and to use confusion tactics and propaganda, as well as, increasingly, threats to not only call us names but use their own created conspiracy theories (Putin!!! Everywhere!!!) to potentially ruin careers or imprison/'disappear' people.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I think people have a lot of questions
Those who control the mass media narratives seem to be all about making people question one thing or the opposite thing depending on the particular agenda. The problem is getting everybody on the same page asking the relevant questions. There's a heck of a lot of people in this country asking a hell of a lot of irrelevant questions, hence our current state of deliberately caused mass confusion. And then there are all those people asking where the nearest Pokemon Go thing is hiding.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Re Agendas:
...etc., et al, and so forth.
I think poetry may be the cleanest way to convey something. Lyrics are good too. Although the tune can distort the meaning, sometimes. It used to be easy to spot a dishonest poem. Identity politics has made things more difficult these days; but not impossible.
I think one of the best methods for spotting lies is 'spreading the net.' It is not easy, though, because it's expensive in time and effort. However, 'spreading the net' is fairly easy to explain: look beyond the first level of connection or even the second level of connection; and search levels until a connection is found. One problem with 'spreading the net' is that it can be wrong. So don't publish the results unless you are absolutely sure and can prove it.
Dire Straits said something like that in "Private Investigations:"
[video:https://youtu.be/nPDsPPAQ_HU]
As far as the band members faces during the video of the song, it tells the story of one band conquering one performance and winning big. How could they not wear those smiles? It was perfect. However, to get meaning from the lyrics, it should be listened without the video with the volume up as far it goes, but without distortion. (Note: 'distort' in paragraph 3, and 'distortion' in this paragraph, do not have the same meaning. But that's OK.)
Strange that a harp of thousand strings should keep in tune so long