Insurance Companies Announce: You Can't Have A Pony!
The establishment's response to Bernie Sanders' Medicare-For-All proposal has gotten hysterical. A good example is the opening sentence to this article.
Having destroyed the private health insurance market, Democrats have a new target in their sights: Medicare.
How exactly has private health insurance been destroyed again? I seem to recall them making billions in profits this year.
It doesn't have to make sense. It only needs to scare and confuse.
The anti-MFA propaganda reminds me of the 1988 California ballot. Consumer advocates put Proposition 103 on the ballot to do something about sky-high auto insurance rates. The insurance industry responded that they would all leave California if 103 passed. They also paid to have three competing ballot measures in order to muddy the waters, as well as billions for deceptive ads.
Everyone was shocked when the voters weren't fooled. Only 103 passed.
According to the Consumer Federation of America, a D.C.-based organization, auto insurance rates in California dropped from the third-costliest in the nation to the 18th after Proposition 103 was approved. Average premiums declined from being 30% higher than the national average to being exactly at the national average.
The insurance industry lost in 1988, but they are using the same tactics in 2017.
Insurance and Pharma lobbyists are certain that single-payer health care "cannot work". Just ask them.
Bernie Sanders has a health care plan he calls Medicare for all. He’s underselling it. His proposal really should be called Medicare for all and a pony.
They have an endless supply of reasons why Americans can't have something that they badly need, but in the end they can never answer a basic question:
How come every other major nation on Earth can accomplish universal health care for a fraction of the cost that we already pay? Why does Canada, Australia, South Korea, and Mexico have the ability to do the impossible, but we don't?
America doesn't sound very "exceptional".
Because the advocates of the status quo can't answer those questions, and because everyone is familiar with Medicare and likes it, most Americans aren't going to believe them.
Let's look at some of the reasons for "No You Can't Have It!"
What we’re left with is little more than the distinct impression that the “Medicare for all” bill effectively doubles as an ideological litmus tests for Democrats, as POLITICO has speculated. For a party trying to reclaim a modicum of exercisable control in Washington, this newest test of progressive purity is but another footstone in the Democratic Party’s path to electoral isolation, one more deviation from a true route to success in November.
This is laughable. The Dems have been decimated because they don't stand for anything.
Now progressives stand for just one single issue - MFA - and suddenly they are "too pure".
So the Dems should be less pure and stand for nothing again? Those seem to be the only options.
Politico’s Bill Scher put it well: “Single-payer hardly comes with an Election Day guarantee. More than 90 percent of voters support requiring background checks for gun buyers. More than 60 percent oppose a border wall. Fifty-six percent say America should discourage the use of coal. And yet, we have a president on the opposite side of all those issues.”
Yes, it will be hard.
So that means we shouldn't try? Once again, America doesn't seem very exceptional.
In 2016, the Fraser Institute found a median 20-week wait in Canada between a generalist’s referral and the time the patient actually received a definitive test or treatment/procedure from a specialist.
...unlike Canada, we will never tolerate such long waiting lines, which is one of the reasons single-payer will never work here.
This is half-right: Americans don't like long waiting lines.
In America, we ration needed health care by ability to pay, instead of by need.
45,000 Americans die every year because of lack of health insurance.
The good news is that all those people who died didn't have to wait in a line.
Americans are happy with the way things are
Despite growing problems in access and cost, most Americans don’t want change to jeopardize what works. A 2016 Gallup Poll revealed that 65% of Americans are happy with the way the healthcare system works for them. The backbone of our system is employer-based health insurance.
Another half-truth.
The poll in question measures ALL AMERICANS, including those with Medicare. This is from the poll:
"Americans with Medicare, Medicaid and military or veterans' insurance continue to express the most satisfaction, at or near 75%, while uninsured Americans report the lowest (40%)."
The tens of millions of Americans with Medicare, Medicaid and military or veterans' insurance inflate the satisfaction numbers.
As for employer-based health insurance, that isn't sustainable either.
The current employer-based health insurance system is slowly collapsing, and it is crushing full-time employment in the process.
MFA advocates need to emphasize this.
Comments
we can't. Why?
Canada, Mexico... and North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam, Nepal......
Some of the poorest freakin' countries on Earth have established health and medical care as a right of everyone. But we, alone, the richest and most powerful nation in history, can't.
Because it would interfere with some fat cats' un-earned profits. And deplete the money we need for more important things, like endless war.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
I want my pony and I want it now!
Consider the source.
Merrill Matthews, the author of the opinion piece at The Hill, is a resident scholar at the Dallas-based (well, of course) Institute for Policy Innovation, whose website describes its organization as . . .
Contributions from insurance companies, otoh, would be a-okay.
That The Hill permits such blatant shilling for corporations to grace its pages tells you a lot about that site, too.
So, if you get sick (and everyone does sometime), that's your problem!
Aaaaiieee!
Aaaaiieee! That "unregulated free market" bullshit again!!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Difference between 1988 and now is that of course...
if the election doesn't go the way the major companies want it to...
Who are we kidding, they ALWAYS go the way the way the major companies want it to. And if you don't believe the elections are legitimate anymore, clearly you're delusional. It is a complete coincidence that so many people vote exactly the opposite the way they said they would.
I mean, if people thought that, nobody would vote... oh wait...
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HQfzwFloVqA]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
1988 is proof the insurance companies can lose
I wish I was less cynical.
I just can't believe that any major anti-corporate action on a national level will ever be capable of occurring with the system entrenchment over the time from then till now. One state, even a HUGE state, maybe. National, there's far too much money spread far too deep. (And Ironically, fewer people you have to bribe to ensure things come out the way you want...)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Everything changes
In 2004 11 states voted to ban same-sex marriage (11 out of 11).
Who would have guessed that by 2012 the whole issue would be settled the opposite way?
In the 90's marijuana was a demon weed. Now that's going away too.
Eventually we'll have medicare for all.
And way sooner rather
than later. Love him or hate him, Bernie has done more in the last two years than most politicians in ten: exposing the DNC for the $h!tpile they are, and putting "Medicare For All" on the tip of America's tongues (regardless that it isn't the 'Single Payer' we'd like).
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Marijuana
And it will cover medical marijuana.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
bribe
And even more ways to bribe them, at that.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
This essay seems like a good place to drop these
When they ask how we are going to pay for it just post this
i can think of few "ordinary" consumer insurance markets
that shouldn't be replaced by single-payer socialized systems.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
few
I can't think of any.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
you're probably right.
i didn't have any in mind when i wrote that, and i was too lazy to try.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Corporate 'Murica does nothing but bitch.
And they accuse us of being entitled? Please. These assholes hold the country hostage every time the issue of tax cuts and subsidies come up. Meanwhile, wages as a share of the market are lower than they've ever been while living expenses are borderline insane (Don't tell that to the Libertarians who hold the purse strings of both parties).
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
The democratic party has nothing in sights except
how to serve the oligarchy, which includes the big insurance companies. The only way we'll get what is really needed is if we the people go take it, not if the politicians give it to us.
yep, agree.
Which, short of pitchforks, suggests pressuring the mofos (with primaries) to get MFA passed.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
I'm on Medicaid
and I haven't had to wait very long for the procedures that my doctor has ordered. My co-pay for doctor appointments, tests and prescriptions is $3.00.
I have had two lumbar injections and I didn't have a co-pay for some reason.
This is the insurance plan that I think everyone should have. It seems to be much cheaper for us than Medicare is. But I don't know what people on Medicare have to pay out of pocket, but isn't there a donut hole when Medicare doesn't pay even part of prescriptions?
Donut hole
Of course, she depends on several name-brand drugs (generics not yet available) with astronomical costs as a feature. She reached her spend limit last month and is now on the hook for $800 per month -- PER MONTH -- through the end of the year.
How this makes any sense for our senior citizens is beyond my comprehension.
The hole.
With the donut hole, prescriptions are covered up to $X, then the person pays until $Y, then Medicare D picks back up for anything over $Z.
Thank you!
And if you need a procedure
Anyway, sorry to go off on a tangent but yeah, that donut hole can get very expensive. And while Medicare is great, it does not cover long term Skilled Nursing beyond 100 days. I didn't know that but I got a real eye opener on it even if I didn't have to use it for her.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
@lizzyh7 Few people would
immoral and corrupt law making.
Medicaid would be best.
But it's costly. In the interim, a plan where everybody gets Medicare, employers offer Medicaid-equivalent Medigap instead of full insurance plans (saves them $$, too), and people of lesser means get Medicaid would be a good idea.
MFA concern trolls
and a simple response
wow, this is unfathomably stupid:
like ... does the writer imagine, fantastically, that diverting resources towards healthcare for the millions who currently don't receive it would not, um, create healthcare jobs? nevermind the second- and third-order economic effects of slashing healthcare costs for employers, which would also, whether ones applies right-wing and left-wing economic theory, increase demand for labor.
i guess we should just draft everybody who can't find a job, give them M-16s, and send them off south of the border to kill Mexicans. squishy liberal-minded anti-killing-of-mexican lefties would do well to keep in mind that this would CREATE JOBS!!!! wahoo!!!
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
@gjohnsit
But The Right People make tons of money harming and killing people both ways - and nothing off money being wasted this way on saving the health and lives of the non-super-wealthy poors.
Where are your priorities mislaid - find them at once???!!!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
And obviously, I think we all know out here
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
@lizzyh7 Do not forget the
Huh, they need to try
Huh, they need to try Medicare with an Insurance carrier tagging along. No 100% coverage with Humana or other companies dictating things, as at 53yrs old, I am too young to get the good stuff. Co-pays abound, and 75bucks for ER visits, and 45bucks for specialists, and just 2 teeth pulled at a time allowed for a certain period, so dentures are delayed. But the costs of my meds is down, and my regular doc is just 10bucks a copay per visit. But there are long waits already, I see my doctor every 3months, and the same for others due to the lack of general practitioners nowadays, and they make the suggested specialist visits.
I would love a system in place where my meds are low cost, and visits were handled w/o co-pays and paperwork, just show my card and done, like the UK's NHS, but as long as greedy CEOs have their companies drawing money to pay their multi-million paychecks, like the huge bloated blood suckers that they are. They even will deny treatments or meds that cost more.
I say we do what the rest of the world does and get single payer!
So long, and thanks for all the fish
This bit had me wondering
I live in British Columbia (arguably Canada's worst health care province). I've worked in several volunteer organizations meaning I've worked around a bunch of older people who had reasons to need a doctor. My general sense is that shit gets handled pretty much immediately. I'd love to know where the 20 week median figure comes from. It doesn't match my admittedly personal anecdotal evidence.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Fraser Institute
It comes straight out of the Fraser Institute's collective arse.
The Fraser Institute is a right-wing think-tank, and a tentacle of the Kochtopus.
The likelihood of there being any factual basis behind this claim of the Fraser Institute is what my first Calculus instructor would call "small".
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides
So, they should have gone to the large intestine for this one?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
large intestine
Yes, the large intestine.
Of an un-castrated male bovine.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides
So, of virtually any member? I see...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
It's almost certainly applies to elective proceedures
not to emergencies
It's the same in the USA.
My wife sees a lot of doctors to deal with health problems related to rheumatoid arthritis. The wait time for US specialists ranges from 3 weeks to 3 months or more. It can take 6 months to see a rheumatologist.
I can't even believe that
Again, I haven't conducted any sort of study but my sense is that any sort of required medical attention happens much quicker than that. I have no real bead on the elective stuff so that may be where it's drawn from. Honestly though, even there I'd suspect some cherry picking of data.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
I'm in the US
Edit to add, I've always thought the potential for lines was a really dumb threat. Let's see, I might be able to have care I wouldn't otherwise and not go bankrupt trying to afford it but I might have to wait for care, which you do anyway...hmm?
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Good point.
My wife has RA. It can take up to 6 months to get an appointment with a rheumatologist in the US.
I agree, I lived in BC for years
On this side of the border my experience with the system is quite different and I have a lot of experience in that I've had an endoscopy 23 times over a period of eight years. The first one was when I told my primary care giver that I could hardly swallow anything (clue # 1 I couldn't swallow a raisin) and it was three weeks before I got the procedure. Then another a few weeks later but if I didn't have Medicaid I'd have to wait until I was at a choking point and the ER would deal with it because I can't afford one procedure and couldn't get medical help at the early signs of my throat closing up on me.
I am so happy that none of my children and grandchildren were not born in the USA and my daughter has heard that from me countless times and I told the same to her dumb ass cousins in New Orleans (they were Palin supporters).
Heh, we live on Vancouver island also
For us, one of the best parts is that we are not constantly at risk of losing everything in the event of some unforeseen medical situation -- which may or may not have been anyone's fault. We are one of the lucky few Americans that have some retirement savings... not much... not enough really. But we're solidly in the black. I'd like to keep it that way.
In American, having Insurance is no protection from Medical bankruptcy. It just means the doctors might actually treat you.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
So all but 8 senators vote to increase military spending by 80B
...but health care is too expensive. We throw away money to kill people (often women and children), but no universal care!
Sad isn't it?
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
It's worse than sad
And these are the same assholes that always end a
speech w/god bless merika. and mostly pro life
except for when they aren't.
and the same assholes that already have universal
healthcare, what makes them so bloody fucking special
absolutely nothing!!!
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
A few interesting votes for it
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DKH_VeUUMAATBSg.jpg
After all...
Who are you going to believe? Your lying eyes or health insurance executives whose wealth comes from letting thousands of Americans die every year?
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
Call their bluff again!
They always threaten to take their ball and go home. Yet, they never do. They stomped their feet and, despite getting pretty much everything they wanted during Obamacare, I don't remember a single insurance company folding or even losing money. So sick of this game.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
The answer is self-evident.
Why does Canada, Australia, South Korea, and Mexico have the ability to do the impossible, but we don't?
Canadian ponies are tougher and stronger and smarter. They have to be to deal with the cold winters.
Cuba
OK, wise guy, then how does Cuba do it? Hurricane-resistant ponies?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Those aren't Ponies!
Wait... I just made it sound better...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
That's easy.
Cuban ponies smoke Cuban cigars. Toughens 'em up.
@thanatokephaloides
In the US, you're forced to deal with horse thieves - of course they won't allow anyone a pony!
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Don't mess with our ponies, eh?
(OK, I had an awful lot of fun making that image. It's too bad it's going to largely go unseen buried in this comment thread. Well, it makes me laugh anyway.)
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Love it!!
Alan Grayson's "Die Quickly" statement.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-usmvYOPfco]
Only now, the Dems have joined the Repigs with regards to TrumpCare and MFA.
Modern education is little more than toeing the line for the capitalist pigs.
Guerrilla Liberalism won't liberate the US or the world from the iron fist of capital.
One other author worth reading on these points...
Is Adam Johnson. Today in an oped at the LA times:
He makes several of the points that are made above, and also talks about the (my take) stupidity of democrats. It's almost as if they don't want to win...
There are 3 types of single-payer 'concern trolls' — and they all want to undermine universal healthcare
@peachcreek
All this - including Hillary refusing to campaign and hanging out with rich donors instead, saying that Single Payer Healthcare will never happen in America, et endless cetera, alienating voters even more than already were by her record and evident pathology - makes (sickening) sense if a sufficient Republican majority (with no actual choice between corporate parties or any actual representatives of the public permitted citizens in rigged selections, toward the plausibility of this goal) is required for Constitutional rewrites, with citizen rights written out of it - and when viewed in the context of destroying the public's faith in the very concepts of democracy, democratic government and of having 'a land of laws, not men', to leave only the appalling and unsustainable principles of 'might makes right' and of human worth measured only in terms of wealth and power, as corporate Republicans have been instilling all along, through 'right-wing' media propaganda.
The US Constitution may be regarded as 'only a piece of paper' by corporate US politicians, but it does define the tenor of the legitimate 'law of the land' as its more enlightened Founders envisioned it, as being designed to assure the maximized potential for the welfare, freedom and happiness of the country and the people who inhabit it and of, by and for whom government at all levels exists to serve the interests of. Not merely a few of the most ruthless and greedy predators among them.
The corrupted US government at all levels is typically unconstitutional and consistently fails to fulfill its Constitutional obligation to maintain the guaranteed rights of all Americans throughout all States of the Union.
As it stands, there is no Constitutionally legitimate US government of, by and for the people, ensuring equal rights, treatment and opportunity for all, as would also befit the wealthiest nation in the world, under sane governance.
The privately owned corporate 'political parties' with exclusive membership and an unofficial platform designed for the selling off of their country's and people's interests to the sufficiently wealthy are not legitimate, being not of, by or for the people, instead draining and poisoning them, their land, air, food, water and future, for the further enrichment and empowerment of hostile self-interests already having gained the most, at The People's expense.
What The Psychopaths and Parasites That Be most fear are the people understanding this and dislodging them from their backs before The People are hag-ridden to death.
And that means that it can be done.
Just my theory, of source, but until I see something that fits better, I'll keep it handy, in case.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
To my knowledge all leadership is like this
In my mind it is almost the dictionary definition of leadership. You plant your banner on some hill and encourage the troops to go take it. You don't plant your banner on hills you already own. You plant them on the ones you don't own. Nor is it helpful to try to figure out every detail before the goal is established. If a leader did that then no worthy goal would ever go anywhere.
I can't count the number of times in my career I started out with, "Well, I have no idea how we're going to do it, but here's what we need to get done...." Amazingly, those things frequently got done despite the mountain of obstacles evident on initial analysis.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard