A Statement from Delphine, one of the recently banned at Dkos, like me
This is from the Dkos helpdesk discussion "Wholesale Bannings II." I have been monitoring Dkos about this topic. In light of the defeat of the DNC supported candidate, Ossuf, and the continued smears of Sanders' supporters and progressives, in general, for no reason other than to blame us for Dem losses, I thought it worthwhile sharing:
{Redacted], it would make sense if we were banned in February, but I looked at my comments from February and while we're certainly not playing patty-cake, the only way those comments "explain" bannings is that someone is holding a very long-term grudge about comments made in the heat of things (before the Ides of March) and banning people now for things we said more than a year ago.
And not because those things violate any rules (at least not more than those on the other side of the argument broke them), but only because the person doing the banning disagreed with the comments.
In other words, in the scenario that exchanges in February are the reason we're banned now, in an argument where someone says "Your candidate lacks value, and here is why I say that!" and the response is "No, YOUR candidate lacks value, and here is why I say that!", only the person criticizing the "preferred" candidate is getting banned right now?
I know this is rehashing an old argument, but there is a chicken-egg thing going on here, and people getting lumped together and blamed for everything said by anyone on their "side" of the argument.
I had no anti-Clinton feelings, more of a "meh". At the same time, though, I was very excited to see that someone this SITE had collectively sighed over "wow, wouldn't it be cool if someone like Sanders or Kucinich had a chance? Wouldn't Paul Wellstone make a great candidate?"
So Sanders declared, and many rejoiced, only to find their excitement being dumped on. We weren't being dumped on for bashing Clinton, but for expressing enthusiasm for Sanders. It was bewildering. And it devolved from there, starting in April 2015 or thereabouts. And I did begin to dislike the policies and the campaign tactics. And I don't want to rehash further here.
But by February 2016, all bets were off. We were almost a year into it, having heard it all and slung it all. The sides were dug in, and no one was being kind. We each had our supposed safe spaces, but those were routinely invaded as well.
It WAS ugly. From all sides.But I thought we'd made it through. Those of us stayed and managed to maintain our mojo bars, and we voted for Clinton, and I thought we'd turned a corner. But there was no let up on hating Bernie, and there was the constant argument about whose fault it was and whether Hillary could or should have done something different. In the past few months I thought we'd mostly made it past that, but we were caught in patterns, and there is one refrain that we couldn't get past.
And it seems like it's not coming from here but somehow the zeitgeist, that one cannot be for economic justice AND for social and racial justice. Those of us who think we can and must address both were routinely savaged for being all about 'privilege' and throwing women and PoC under the bus in favor of white racists. And once that took hold here, we were caught up in a fight we for some reason could not find our way out of.
How shitty we were to one another over a year ago should not be a reason to ban folks now, though. Good people can disagree on how to get to the same place - democrats back in the majority creating good policy. We're literally fighting for the car keys because one wants to take a left turn and the other a right, but all combinations of turns result in progressive policies (social, racial, and economic) enacted by a progressive majority. At least that's the goal, right?
Someone quoted a comment I made, as if it were the worst hypocrisy in the world! That Bernie Sanders has a right to make money from a book advance and selling that book to us little folks for $20 each. I'm not really sure what's wrong with that - but I am sure that the need to bash Bernie for making money and the need to argue that it's okay for him to do that is not getting any democrats elected. Hate and blame and recrimination are not getting any democrats elected. Shouting about who has a right to criticize, and which person who wants democrats to win is the person who gets to speak, is not getting democrats elected.
To get democrats elected we need to work together. We need to stop assuming that adding economic justice back into the discussion means someone doesn't care about people of color, or women. We need to stop assuming that supporting a more incremental strategy means someone cares less about the end goal.
The political revolution is that iron worker running to unseat Paul Ryan. Simple as that. Regular working man unseats entitled republican asshole to represent the people of his beloved district. Change is uncomfortable and we've been scraping and chafing against one another but we're all in this together.
I have to do work on my house and it's like childbirth - I wish I could just leave and come back and the hard work would be done. And it's like what we're doing together here (or you're doing without me, at least I hope that's what ends up happening) - it's difficult and it's uncomfortable but it needs to happen. We need to rebuild the party, and that means a lot of arguing about how that happens. A lot of strife and sweat, and utter and complete disagreement, and resolution and eyes back on the goal, but it doesn't have to including blame and vitriol and shunning and personal attacks.
Whether or not I am ever able to post here [i.e., Dkos] again, I wish that for this site. That it becomes a microcosm of the party finding a way to heal this divide, and that in the future no one who genuinely wants the party to heal and regain the majority (and isn't flagrantly and constantly violating site rules) is excluded just because they have a different point of view about how to get there. I believe the party needs to embrace those voices in order to succeed.
I'm sorry for any vitriol from the primaries. It WAS ugly, and people were hurt, and good people were banned and/or left because it was so toxic. We weren't kind to one another.
I hope there is healing here (and in the party/real world), because Voldemort is truly the worst outcome possible, and we need to work together to defeat him and everything he stands for.And with that, I'll sign off. I'll check back with the mods to see if I've gotten a response. But there isn't more to say. It's been great, I'll miss this place, and I'm grateful for the support.
Enjoy, all.
There's only one rule that I know of, babies-"God damn it, you've got to be kind."
Vonnegut
My earlier diary on the mass bannings of Sanders supporters and progressive voices at Dkos can be found here.
Comments
@Pluto's Republic The
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Not just racism, sexism too.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
I could go on and on and on
That pussy hat thing really irked me from day one. That and the Woman Card that Shillary put out. Pandering, cheap ass pandering. If these people meant half of what they said about women, they'd never have considered voting for HER in the first place. And they sure as hell would not be willing to "work with" Repugnants to "get things done."
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Hillary == white privilege
Those enthusiastic black supporters were mostly elderly, conservative Southern church-going women. Propagandizing that crowd to vote against the best interests of the majority of black people (read: support for any Clinton, Clintonite, or Turd Wayer) was seen as a cheap and easy way to get Her Heinous the nomination, so the Clinton machine did just that. (You don't want an atheistic Jewwwwww in the Oval Office, do you?)
By the time black men voters of sub-Boomer age twigged to the fact that they may as well support David Duke as Hillary Clinton, the damage was long done, with the Clinton astroturf "Black Lives Matter" gang making war on the candidate who had done far and away more to help our nation's black people (Bernie) so the one who belonged to the group who hurt them in so many ways (Hillary) would get the nomination.
To make a long story short, elderly Southern black voters were hoodwinked into voting against themselves.
EDIT: I may have been too harsh to Black Lives Matter (BLM) above, especially as it exists today. But during the 2016 campaign for the Democratic Presidential nomination, they made a point of disrupting Bernie's events far oftener and far worse than they disrupted Hillary's events. It is apparent that BLM has changed course somewhat since then, focusing on their actual issues and embracing their allies rather than attacking them. (This is a good thing.)
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides They trust their
One of the suckiest stories of the last election cycle.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
BLM and Bernie
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
Rec'd X 1,000,000,000!!!!!!
Can you turn this into a diary?
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
As above, so below indeed
They want our money and our support, and in return they give us virtually nothing.
I find it hilarious that they wonder why they couldn't take MI.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
Good guidelines. It's also useful to remind folks
…. that the Parties are private, unregulated, non-governmental organizations. They are more political clubs with an elite group that matriculates to the top to lead. They have carved out influence and power for themselves inside the federal government, and inside the State governments, as well. But they do not hold themselves to a particular standard, and they operate without any oversight from the government. They are not a Democratic organization and they can alter the outcomes of polling as they wish, or can ignore the polling results and pick whomever they wish to be their Presidential candidate.
That's the legal view.
The American people may have gotten the wrong idea about what the Parties are. They may believe that the Parties have certain obligations, but that idea is conflated with the idea of government. It's just not true. They are a private club.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
Nice coalition building skills they got there...
As if...
They don't want a collation, they want to rule.
Once you control what someone says you are are only a short hop away from controling how they think.
The thought purity brigade over there was so noxious I bailed before being banned (unless they did it retroactively after I left.) because I couldn't abide the rank hypocrisy that was more pervasive than anything I have ever encountered on the web.
TOP is where free thought goes to die...
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
It looks like the Dems are patterning themselves after the
Party in Nineteen Eighty-Four. They seek power for its own sake. They refuse to be handicapped by mere ideology.
Edit: replaced "pattering" with "patterning."
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
@Lily O Lady I'm considering this
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm looking forward to reading your essay. It's scary to
think that Dems looked at Nineteen Eighty-Four and said, "Great idea!"
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
Was it ever really an ideology which just happened to suit the pathologically greedy among wealthy industrialists, or was it always fascism presented as an ideology held by those who supported Hitler from the very purest of motives, with any personal fortunes made from concentration camps/slavery/illegal invasions and the like - just like now - purely incidental and coincidental?
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
free thought
..... and then it freely thinks "Crap, these fuckers are trying to kill me!".
And then it comes over here to c99 and freely thinks "Ah, no place like home!"
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Thank you, than. That
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Sounds like a nice person
With some seriously unfounded ideas:
We're literally fighting for the car keys because one wants to take a left turn and the other a right, but all combinations of turns result in progressive policies (social, racial, and economic) enacted by a progressive majority. At least that's the goal, right? - See more at: https://caucus99percent.com/content/statement-delphine-one-recently-bann...
OK. I'm calling time of death on the word "progressive." It now literally means nothing at all, because, not only can you get to "progressive policies enacted by a progressive majority" by turning right OR left, you can also get there through "all combinations of turns!" So, as long as you get into the majority, regardless of how you get there, you now have a progressive majority, whose policies, of course, will also be progressive, except that no-one knows what the hell that means except that it has this logo on it:
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
In the ambulance, . . .
. . . they called TOD on "progressive" back in June 2008. I'm in awe of your persistence in trying to resuscitate the victim. It does you merit.
But we're gonna need a new descriptor for anyone who actually wants to improve things for anyone below the top 1% in the U.S. of A.
@dance you monster Thanks dym. I dislike
I'm on Alice's side:
'I don't know what you mean by "glory",' Alice said.
Humpty Dumpty smiled contemptuously. 'Of course you don't — till I tell you. I meant "there's a nice knock-down argument for you!"'
'But "glory" doesn't mean "a nice knock-down argument",' Alice objected.
'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'
'The question is,' said Alice, 'whether you can make words mean so many different things.'
'The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, 'which is to be master — that's all.'
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You don't sound very progressive, man.
@Big Al LMAO.
Well, if progressive only means progress, then I think I'm justified in asking: Which direction are we progressing in?
I think I need to know that before I sign on.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
DK's idea of "progressive"
DK's idea of "progressive" means ever further down this path:
[video:https://youtu.be/qKggnBh2Mdw]
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides ROTFLMAO! Fifty
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
thumbs up
Thank you!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
This reminds me
I've heard it said:
Two wrongs don't make a right. But three rights do make a left.
Maybe that's the plan? Just keep turning right until we end up going left. That must be it.
two wrongs
I thought it was "Two wrongs never make a right; but that three do...."
[video:https://youtu.be/ggIQpmUhu10]
"Strive at all times to bend, fold, spindle and mutilate."
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@CS in AZ LMAO!
Yeah, I'll hold my breath for that.
Though at this point it's less about right vs left than truth vs lies.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I would like to forget all this 'progress' we've
made since Slick & the Little Woman sleazed out of Arkansas. I want to go back to the 'Party' when it really stood for something.
What does that make me? A Regressive? Digressive?
Whatever, the entire Hillbillary Clan needs to be shipped off to live on a island somewhere. And never allowed back here in the US. I think Haiti would do.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Haiti
What did the Haitian People ever do to you?
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides It's more what
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Exactly. Thank you.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Nothing. I think it would be the PERFECT
opportunity to 'show their appreciation' to the Clintons who used them to enrich their wealthy buddies after the 2010 earthquake.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Clintons in Haiti
You and I were thinking opposite sides of the same coin, Amanda.
You were thinking: Send the Clintons over to Haiti -- the Haitians will give them their just deserts!
I was thinking: After all the Clintons did to the poor Haitians, do they need yet more punishment? After the Clintons' adventures there, pollution levels are already intolerably high!
But I must admit your plan has a certain karmic elegance to it, nonetheless!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
It makes you a reformer.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
That works. That works very well.
We need a REFORMISTS PARTY!
Thanks!
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
It's a noble thing, Amanda.
It's always the reformers who are celebrated for ushering in times of peace and prosperity.
IMAGINE if you woke up the day after a US Presidential Election and headlines around the the world blared, "The Majority of Americans Refused to Vote in US Presidential Election! What Does this Mean?"
@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
That symbol so very accurately looking more like a target to shoot at than to shoot for...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
It needs a line drawn through it.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
It's probably good to keep an eye, but this makes me cringe.
Sorry to hear about your banning Steven; and I always appreciated delphine's even-keeled and observant comments. But it's kind of pathetic to see this kind of groveling. It's really like being called into the principal's office in high school, of which I know a little about
These phonies, these Protectorates of a failed and corrupt party beholden only to the big money interest of Wall St, Corporate America and Big Pharma, have no interest in the truth, examine why they've lost so many seats nationally, are hemorrhaging membership among the electorate. Why would anyone waste time with those duped robots, expect for to look at as a bellwether for what the MSM is saying and what the next round of propaganda will be?
That place is a complete joke, full of pretenders, living comfortably (white and black), having ensconced themselves too snugly inside the MSM pro sports version of how they view and interpret
politics/history/sociology/economics (the last three practically non-existent). They're so blinded by party politics as not to the reality of American history and fundamental truth about the predations of a Duopoly system beholden to Big Money interests that just serves to divide and conquer the 99%, of which we all, of the human race, belong, but are forced to live within the maniacal dictates of a greedy 1% who play both parties like a fiddle.
DMW nailed it. It's like a peaceful California hippie town, with a socialist/anarchist outlook, being invaded by drunken, obnoxious Neoliberal yuppies partying at 80's tribute band shows and chanting USA!USAUSA!, shopping at all the new monopoly chains, while muttering sweet-nothings "advocating" socially liberal views of equality, as long as their money and lifestyle wasn't challenged.
And it's not just about we "white hippies" here, in that kind of scenario. Even the most cursory look into radical Black leaders of the 60's shows there was a very real coalescing of what Huey Newtown of the Black Panthers called "Inter-communalism," which he expressed in a letter to John Lennon in reference to his song "Imagine." As a white participant in the BLM movement I saw enough to be convinced.
Bobby Seale and Huey Newtown making allies with John Lennon, who financially back some of their initiatives and publicly invited them on his media platform; The Black Panthers and Young Patriots in Chicago forming mutual aid groups: Rap Brown saying the hippies were the only ones who were inviting to the black community and their struggles.
Anybody who is serious about activism, changing the plight of the world knows That Place is a massive joke, a deathtrap for real movement-building. The willful ignorance there to accept the truth of Howard Zinn's life's work, to show that all progress has come from grassroots activism and social movements, was most offensive. As MLK said, what good is the right to sit at a lunch counter if we can't even buy a hamburger.
I began to write an essay on how fraudulent that place is, with examples especially of how the Black contingent were completely out-of-touch with the Black Lives Matter movement and the amazing, energy coursing through the country, especially in the black community, for wholesale change economically and politically, outside of the parties.
The folks There had no or lukewarm interest in this kind of stuff. It was telling to me, and a harbinger of things to come that were exposed for all-time during the Primary.
"If I should ever die, God forbid, let this be my epitaph:
THE ONLY PROOF HE NEEDED
FOR THE EXISTENCE OF GOD
WAS MUSIC"
- Kurt Vonnegut
Re: the groveling.
It's appropriate, I think, to remember that (a) delphine was never as far to the left as many here are (and, in fact, many here are not as far to the left as some), and (b) she's in that first stage of breaking up, which almost all of us went through and many are still going through, which is why this story of dK's decline still resounds with us instead of just boring us to death. It's sad to watch, but we all witnessed that sadness more than once. This is not where we criticize the victim, but lend a shoulder.
@dance you monster I agree. I have
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
She's in shock
The way I see it, Delphine knew dkos was an abusive environment, but she didn't expect to suddenly become a victim of the abuse herself. She was dumped without a word, after giving them 12 years, and then given the silent treatment. Kicked to the curb. I'm sure that hurts. I left dkos voluntarily but still had attachment for awhile. I understand her impulse to cling and try to "fix it" but she's been in a dysfunctional relationship with an abusive group and needs to let it go. I hope she realizes that soon. The "please let me back in, I've been good" pleading is sad to see. When they boot you out and slam the door in your face, it's past time to move on!
I didn't get banned.
Towards the end of my rope with them, I started following in the foot steps of Ek. Why should I kiss ass in a system that is clearly rigged? I started complaining right back at the help desk, fully expecting no response and certainly no cooperation. What mattered was finally throwing off the shackles.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
@dkmich You are awesome.
And you've articulated one of the fundamental dividing lines of the political realignment.
Hmmm. Maybe we should state some of them, because the old dividing lines are getting less and less meaningful.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Mark from Queens Why would anyone waste
https://caucus99percent.com/content/statement-delphine-one-recently-bann...
Why would anyone waste time with those duped robots, expect for to look at as a bellwether for what the MSM is saying and what the next round of propaganda will be? - See more at:This is what I want to ask about, not only Daily Kos, but also all corporate media and all duopoly politicians. Indie media and non-duopoly politicians evaluated on a case-by-case basis.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You left one industry out and it's the biggest in the room
The military industrial complex is sucking all the oxygen (money) out of the rooom. When the drone king started using them in Pakistan which had nothing to do with the 9/11 attacks which was the excuse they needed to unleash the Project for the New American Century (PNAC). Which for some reason was written before 9/11, and just needed a New Pearl Harbor event to put it in effect
Obama unconstitutionally used the AUMF that was given for Bush the Lessor to start the war in Irag and continue to take his war of terror on the road to 8 more countries that had nothing to do with the attack.
Then when he and his sidekick Hillary decided to overthrow Gaddafi for the same offenses that the two of them were overseeing here with the OWS protest, where were the countless diaries on ToP about this?
If I or anyone else who had a problem with his use of drones that were killing innocent civilians on a scale of 9/11 each month, we were told to shut the fuck up because HE HAS THIS.
And drones saved our soldier's lives because they didn't have to be in harm's way, don'tcha know?
Where were the massive world wide protests against the Libyan wars like we saw with the Iraq war? Seriously, if the Iraq war was bad then wasn't the Libyan one just as bad? HELL YES!!!
Imagine if those trillions of dollars that were spent after Obama became president were spent on health care for all, free college, a f*cking jobs program that would have seen livable wages and all the other things that this country is lacking because of over 50% OF OUR SPENDING GOES THE THE MICC, the spying ICC, and all the other ICCs.
And since Libya worked out so well for them, they decided that they should continue their wars for profit and attack Syria, which has put us on a very real path to all out nuclear war.
Hillary was campaigning on making this threat much more real by creating a no fly zone over Syria and STILL people were going to vote for her. The same people that voted for Barack because of her Iraq war vote. Really, they didn't see their hypocrisy ?
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
Mark
I'm very glad I read this far rather than responding when I finished the essay. I had a similar reaction to yours when I read Delphine's comments. (I too enjoyed many of her thoughts when I participated in TOP.) I thought she sounded like an abused spouse begging her husband to take her back.
I have no problem imagining that you became thoroughly familiar with the path to the principal's door. But I can't see you groveling while in the office.
More from delphine's comment...
Whether or not I am ever able to post here [i.e., Dkos] again, I wish that for this site. That it becomes a microcosm of the party
Done. It is that. Right down to one half of it holding all the power and treating the other half like the nerdy new kid at a boarding school.
finding a way to heal this divide,
The party isn't trying to find a way to heal this divide. Neither, obviously, is Markos.
I do feel bad for the people who thought that if they were civil, kind, rational and conciliatory enough they would be allowed to stay at DKos and even be treated as friends by the people they see as being on the same team. But it was obvious to a lot of us by 2011 that, not only was that never going to happen, but that the Daily Kos site seemed to exist for the purpose of spreading the exact bullying dynamic that is the fundamental social contract inside the Democratic party. That bullying dynamic is the Democratic party's, shall we say, domestic policy. It's how it interacts within itself.
The frenemy relationship it has with the Republicans, in which Republican politicians are alternately demonic monsters who must be removed at all costs and rational people with whom we must engineer a civil compromise that unifies all, when Republican voters are alternately "deplorables" who degrade the national conversation and desired new recruits who will replace the working class voters that most of the Democrats are practically chasing out of their Big Tent with tazers, is one piece of the Democratic party's foreign policy: how it relates to things outside itself.
The other piece of the Democratic party's foreign policy is the Washington consensus: the unshakable promise to the wealthy of the country that the government will remain captured.
and that in the future no one who genuinely wants the party to heal and regain the majority (and isn't flagrantly and constantly violating site rules) is excluded just because they have a different point of view about how to get there. - See more at: https://caucus99percent.com/content/statement-delphine-one-recently-bann...
But there's the rub: the site rules, if they were not consciously designed to provide opportunities to ban dissidents, are certainly enforced that way, to the point that large numbers of people get banned without, apparently, even a nod given to the rules as a formality--again, Markos' site functioning as a "microcosm of the party."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
DailyKos drove off the left including Cindy Sheehan and
a long list of others, and it goes out of its way to welcome Republicans. Schumer's comment about gaining five professional Republicans for every dirty blue collar lost explains dkos. Whatever the Dem Party is saying and doing is exactly what dailykos is saying and doing. The strategy's match. All one needs to do is look at the demographics for dkos. They are white, male, JDs/PhDs, and six figure incomes. These are the Republicans Schumer and markos want.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
@dkmich Fine. They can go be
It's just disgusting to watch them be the Bush Republicans while pretending to be the Big Six.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
And because many of those dirty
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
Here's the thing she missed big time, IMO
Now that I've read the whole sad thing, this is the part still keeps coming back.
For some reason? Not coming from there?
Is she serious? This racial divide on dkos is intentional, blatant, and it's coming directly from Kos. Reinforced by the people he promotes and hires and features on his site. This has been obvious for a long time now.
When the first essay on this recent incident appeared here, I once again succumbed to curiosity and looked in. Bob Johnson had a rec list diary about it. This theme was prevalent. The prevailing message is that you have to worship Hillary/the Clintons/DNC neoliberal ideology, or you're a racist. Period. Wanting single-payer healthcare is racist. Wanting a higher minimum wage is racist. Tuition free college, racist. It's fucking ridiculous.
ANY idea of policies that help *everyone* is strictly forbidden there. They hate -- hate, hate, hate -- white working people who are struggling and need help. The attacks on WWC (white working class) were ubiquitous. They want us dead, the sooner the better. Kos believes white poor people deserve death. He said so openly not too long ago. His site reflects that. It's pretty clear that's what this is about.
The purges will continue until the only white people left there are those who grovel and agree with that belief, that we deserve nothing but to wither and die off as quickly as possible.
It is coming from there, Delphine. From kos and his followers. Wake up and smell the coffee.
They don't want economic justice for poor or struggling white people. They truly don't. They don't even care that millions of poor and struggling black people and Latino people need these things too. They will sacrifice them to the higher goal of punishing white people who would benefit from anything like a progressive agenda in this country.
I quickly felt ill from the toxicity over there.
If I haven't said it lately: thank you, JtC and everyone who built this site and welcomed us refugees when it became clear that dkos was unhealthy and toxic. I'm sorry it took me so long to see that place for what it is. And very grateful for this site.
Ain't That the Truth?
I know the MO of that place wasn't as lefty as I am, but it seems to me there are some basic values one must support to claim to be on the vanguard of left wing thought. When GWB was in office, they seemed to be a lot closer to those thing but once BO was elected, those goalposts moved much farther to the right.
* and as a sidenote, let's consider the "pie fights" of the 2008 primaries. Nasty, nasty stuff. Funny thing about all that, jilted supporters of HER, whose motto was "Party Unity My Ass", weren't silenced or mass banned that I know of. While there was some circling of the wagons, I seem to recall many still fighting the primaries long after the votes were over. Not only, but one didn't have to take a loyalty oath to remain a member in good standing. I seem to recall many proudly flying the PUMA flag and still being allowed there.
Idolizing a politician is like believing the stripper really likes you.
@CS in AZ They don't want
That's because:
1)They don't actually give a shit about Black people or other POC
2)They're using the suffering of Black people and other POC to generate moral credibility for themselves. It goes something like this: a Black woman's son of 16 gets gunned down on the street by a white cop who then gets let off the hook by the "legal justice system" and the media. The Democratic politician shows up in the aftermath and gets the camera on themselves surrounded by grieving Black people. Without making any specific policy promises or actually doing anything the Democratic politican expresses sympathy. Often the camera will be on the Democrat making a sympathetic face and nodding while, off camera, a woman who has just lost her child to murder speaks her pain. The fact that the Democrat has sympathy for the woman's suffering makes them appear more moral than their Republican counterparts. This provides a moral alibi for them while they shit all over everyone (including Black people and other POC) who don't have wealth and power--a thing they would never get away with if
3)They didn't have famous Black people (and occasional famous POC who aren't Black) echoing their talking points on TV and the Internet. This enables them to get away with
a)a bunch of illogical and blatantly untrue crap, and
b)flip-flopping on the race war (see also, Hillary Clinton 2008-2016)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@CS in AZ If I haven't said it
On behalf of everybody, including those who did a lot more work than me, you're welcome.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@CS in AZ
Personally, it has always seemed to me to be more of the dog-in-the-manger objection to anyone else having anything else, for which any excuse must do, since most un-afflicted people won't accept pathology as a good reason for demanding complete economic/societal/ecological collapse all in the name of letting only The Right People have anything at all, whether regarding rights, money/property, health or simple happiness.
Edited for my traditional typo-ed letter noticed only while waiting for the page to post...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Stalinesque is exactly right.
Stalinesque is exactly right. Banning so many long time users who were seemingly dkos citizens in good standing could only have been done at Kos' direction. Whatever the exact reason may be I doubt this was merely petty personal politics. As such it bodes ill for the future of the Democratic party.
Night of the Long Knives
I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.
It's time to move on
I never knew that the term "Never Again" only pertained to
those born Jewish
"Antisemite used to be someone who didn't like Jews
now it's someone who Jews don't like"
Heard from Margaret Kimberley
The point is that there IS no point. It's about power
The owner wants Bernie bashing, and so it will #Persist.
Not going to find a pony in the pile of crap which is the bashing.
If one wants understanding, research Brockian political theory of cooptation. It is truly that low brow, dog eat dog. It's all propped by cash and name-calling. Sure does wonders for participatory democracy.
I recommend giving up on trying to make it make any more sense than it did in Feb 2016.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
While I suppose there is some virtue in understanding what
it is that the minions at The Odious Place are saying and thinking about folks who occasionally experience actual moral qualms with respect to their political engagement, I suggest that in the not-much-longer run, and for their own emotional health, people need to put dailyPOS behind them.
I wandered off in hopeless dis-somethingorother almost 21 months ago, with a diary that somebody else -- some jackass, probably PhoenixWoman -- tagged as GBCW. It was interesting that about half the comments in that rec-listed diary were a pissing match.
It's also interesting that when I just reviewed it for the first time in months, I noted a few familiar names amongst the not-pissy commenters: Cassiodorus, thanatokephaloides, BOHICA.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
@UntimelyRippd I think this is all in
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
thank you!
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
@thanatokephaloides Deserved! :=)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Gross
Side note: I tried to post a comment in the original help desk thread but couldn't log in (thought I was bojo), so I tried as an unverified guest and received a message that it had to go through moderation, and it was never posted. Maybe it was my calling kos a neoliberal corporate party mouthpiece and telling those banned that they will eventually see being banished as an eye-opening gift?
Today, I checked, and I still have over 4 bars of mojo. The 5th is disappearing due to inactivity.
Reading the hd comments, and remembering the detox I went through due to that horrible shit hole, makes me adore this place even more. Thank you to everyone who made and maintains this place! xoxox
I registered there 15 years ago
And was a lifetime member. I left a year ago. Nuff said.
You haven't missed anything.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
The Democratic Party has been drifting
to the right for a long time. In the interests of staying in power the Party has supported, and continues to support, many politicians and policies that do not represent the best interests of the nation as a whole, but rather the interests of an entrenched political and financial elite. This trajectory and these policies have become intolerable to a large segment of its own base.
The Democratic Party is primarily a self-perpetuating institution. Only occasionally and vaguely does it resemble an ideological movement or a unified force. It is far more dedicated to preserving itself and its own power, than it is to any particular set of goals or beliefs. Practically the only consistent, enduring, and universal position the Party holds fast to, is the burning desire to defeat Republicans. To achieve this end, all else may be sacrificed.
Many Democrats, and all of Daily Kos, are convinced that this Party, however corrupt it may be, represents the only possible hope of ever wresting power from the hands of the various Right-wing cabals that are currently ascendant. However, many participants here at caucus99% are convinced that they are dead wrong.
native
@native They are the right-wing
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Any of the photos showing the Clintons with the Bushes and
Rinse and repeat.
You may choose to look the other way, but you can never say again you did not know. ~ William Wiberforce
If you can donate, please! POP Money is available for bank-to-bank transfers. Email JtC to make a monthly donation.
delphine is a troll
she used to show up in the What's Happenin diaries at dkos (authored by Joanne Leon). She would act like a troll and bait people into fighting with her about Obama's purity with the intent of having her posse gangup on people an HR them to get them banned.
So yeah, fuck that delphine bitch. Glad she got banned. Bad Karma never expires.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
"Bad Karma never expires"?
Be mindful of your own karma, because whatever you wish on others comes back at you threefold - or occasionally three times threefold.
I hardly ever agreed with anything Delphine said, but she had every right to say it - and throwing her under the bus without warning or explanation (have you paid ANY attention to the details?) is not something any reputable site should do.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
@TheOtherMaven I stand by my comment
She and her pack of Attack Hyenas lured lots of really nice people into her Ban Hammer trap. I repeat, fuck her.
And I don't believe a word of her post about this recent mass banning. She is an expert liar.
If you have a problem with me. Spit it out.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Wrote a couple responses
Then I remembered...
TOP drama is fun to watch from afar but I prefer to laugh and jeer from the cheap seats and not descend to the mosh pit.
The more they eat their own, the more who will see what is happening. Holding grudges from other sites... is very TOP.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
@detroitmechworks It's not about a
Hey she played Hyena Pack Game at dKos
One of the most obnoxious tactics in social media.
If she shows up here, you think she will change her spots. I doubt it.
For those who are messaging her to join C99 -- It's about knowing you'll be inviting the fox into the chicken coop.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Meh, I left That Place behind me long since
and I've pretty much gotten over any grudge-holding. Maybe it was a case of Wile E. Coyote finally looking down and seeing there's no ground to stand on, I don't know. Moreover, I don't give a damn.
But even the most egregious offender should get some warning before being kicked out the door - JtC here is pretty good about that. Other places, not so much....
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
@Citizen Of Earth I've considered
We've had this on both the supposedly left-wing side of things (You MUST ban the use of certain words on the site, or you are racist/sexist/a horrible meanie that I cannot tolerate) and the supposedly right-wing side of things (Feminism is awful! Women are treating men really, really badly! If you don't slam those nasty feminists in exactly the way I want you too, you're a horrible meanie that I cannot tolerate).
They tend to leave.
That said, no site is utterly troll-free, but they haven't managed to kill the conversation here, or make most of us hate each other, which are the general goals of trolldom. It's an anti-discourse, anti-honesty, and anti-community operation.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Interesting, I'd never heard that
I'm glad we're here.
"Obama promised transparency, but Assange is the one who brought it."
I was wondering where you went
I'm figuring on spending more time here and less there
Rivers are horses - and kayaks are their saddles
Ahh!, good times... the memories
I remember getting a stern admin warning about describing (several times) Blackwaterdog's 'photo.. things' as hagiographies.
I miss that sweet, sweet requiem for a dream that is arancione. Sob!
/s
Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.
FUCK THAT PLACE!
When are you going to learn that MARKOS private propaganda website does not want you,does not care about you and flat out HATES WHITE PEOPLE!Going back to that place over and over to be kicked in the nuts,shit on,disrespected is like a battered women who keeps going back for the next round of getting the shit beat out her.WHY GO THERE? JUST STOP!YOU WILL LIVE WITHOUT THAT SHITHOLE!MARKOS goal is to drive ALL WHITE PEOPLE out of the Democratic party!And guess what the GOP is welcoming them with open arms.MARKOS IS A RACIST!There isnt ANYTHING more infuriating to working class whites that have lost their jobs homes health to be told they are PRIVILEGED!These people are not PRIVILEGED! These people are SUFFERING!Thats how out of touch this ASSHOLE MARKOS is,He ENJOYS seeing people suffer!Remember his GLEE when the coal miners were losing their pensions and healthcare?This little shit never worked a day in his life he has no idea how hard life is for most people.
FUCK HIM AND FUCK HIS RACIST WEBSITE!
DW
wouldn't it be a good idea not to use the same
usernames here than those you had on TOP ?
Having a bad memory and getting old and somewhat depressed, tired and exhausted of life, I recognize some names from TOP and only vaguely remember how I perceived their comments and diaries over there back in the days when I was still reading there.
Now I realize that those vaguenesses in my memories create a fertile soil for growing some prejudices over here ... and it could all be wrong.
Are we undermined? Are we co-opted? Do I need to worry? Do I have to check on TOP to see what delphine had said when and where? Do I have to care to read how you discuss all of that? Is she/he a candidate running for office somewhere? That would be a reason to care to know what stuff she/he said when and where. If we could be certain that we know who is delphine.
But then, who cares for the twitter messages coming from the US president (presumably)? You still do?
I consider starting to knit. That might me help not to think about the herding group mentality among the insiders who know who is who behind a username.
So, WHO are you all?
PS. I am me and I know who I am. So far at least.
Peace.
https://www.euronews.com/live
An interesting diagnosis of liberalism's current malaise
by Emmett Rensin at the la review of books.
.
In the six months since the election of Donald Trump, American liberals have managed to regroup, assembling themselves into a self-styled “Resistance” and attempting to reassert control over a world they no longer recognize. But something happened out there in the desert. There is something off about them now. On every level, our most prominent technocrats have entered the new year like uncanny valley copies of themselves, stuttering and miming their old habits, with each take trying to remember what their lives felt like before the accident. They can’t quite get the message right. For months, serious journalists studied The Origins of Totalitarianism like a divination manual, wondering when Trump would pass his enabling act. First, the president was a fascist, until he failed to consolidate power. Then he was an authoritarian, until he showed no interest in micro- or macro-management. Then he merely had authoritarian tendencies, or something, and at any rate was probably a Kremlin agent.
The essay goes on to discuss Freud, the Id, and the Superego in relation to the liberal conception of morality. It's an intriguing attempt to explain why the wheels came off Hillary's machine so unexpectedly.
native
Emmett Rensin diagnosed the Democrats problem
with the aim of a sharpshooter. Especially deft with his comments about the media, and the "journalists" we once trusted and respected, I could only nod in agreement.
They have descended to a place that renders them all unrecognizable.
Great article. Thanks for the link.
There is always Music amongst the trees in the Garden, but our hearts must be very quiet to hear it. ~ Minnie Aumonier
@Anja Geitz
Or, perhaps, more easily recognizable as what they are?
Being less concerned about concealing their fingerprints, perhaps because more assured of their immunity to now-disabled checks and balances and majority-corrupt Supreme Court judgements and lack of need for carefully conned actual voters or of voters at all beyond some pretense of plausibility if a win is desired, the gloves have been coming off.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I think people are making this too complicated.
'Liberal' policies and platforms are under attack because in this age of money money money many so-callled Dims have found out being a political whore for the 1% pays wayyyyyy better than actually representing and fighting for those who aren't able to pay their 'fees'. The poor can't pay to wine and dine out so-called 'Representatives' in the style they think they deserve.
There are not going to be many 'focus group' policy meetings at a Colorado ski resort bankrolled by the Great Unwashed.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
good work, if you can get it.
if that doesn't change, nothing else will change.
Pages