@CS in AZ @CS in AZ

All I can say to that is it is about time. There was some union guy at dkos who also campaigned for Bernie. I can't remember his name. Boy did he get pissed at me for daring to call out the unions for endorsing Hillary.

I have no patience with people that hinge their values on who is doing it. When it's Hillary blowing up Russia, ain't she grand. When it is Bush, hang em.

#1

Still digesting the discussion, but it was interesting.

I didn't recognize the voices well enough to know who was speaking (other than Nader), but one of the guests at one point talks about being completely shocked and amazed at seeing how much people genuinely dislike Hillary Clinton. He says he "knew on paper" that she was not well liked, but he seemed absolutely flummoxed about why, and he couldn't believe how strongly people were repulsed when he actually listened to them talk about her.

He then went on to say that people actually liked Bernie -- with a tone of wonderment and amazement. Like, he really didn't understand why people like Bernie, and could not grasp why Hillary is so deeply despised. This left me wondering who it was saying that, and what's his deal? Why did he sound so clueless about something so obvious? Anyone know?

I also just read that ridiculous article about kos. what a pile of lies! Kos claiming he never took sides in the primary?? Good lord. Revisionist history anyone? He's so full of shit. It's clear he's happy the "Bernie bros" are gone from his website though -- it's good for unity and inclusiveness! Wimmins flocked there in huge numbers wearing their pussy hats after the big march on Washington, and they don't want to sharing the same website with no Bernie Bros. Unity! Whatever. This 58 y/o female Bernie Bro isn't interested in unity with that twerp, his followers, or his website.

@Mark from Queens

One thing not being said here is that we need to remember that Kos purged the Berniecrats from his site back in March. He’s part of the why we’re in this situation, so it’s smug and disingenuous for him to now blame the voters for not going along with his corporate golden girl after she stole the Democratic primaries.

There is another huge pie fight over there about Bernie's statement today about Osfoff (?) not being a progressive and Her supporters are still blaming Bernie and his supporters for Her losing to Trump.
2 diaries full of contempt for Bernie. And let's never forget that he isn't even a Democrat!

#2

Good to know there are folks all over the place talking about how these phony bastions of (Neo)Liberalism (i.e. TOP) need to be exposed and fought.

At the risk of cluttering things up here (I figure folks can just skim or skip over if they please), here's a few of those:

Great letter. Thanks for sending that to them. I’m an ex-subscriber of Daily Kos, as well. Read their articles and commented daily. But eventually I realized they’re less progressive than I thought. While they feature some good progressive bloggers, the organization as a whole seems to toe the Establishment Democratic Party line.

It’s too bad, really. One can occasionally learn a lot from some of the smart people who post(ed) there. I’m seeing less and less of that. The problem is the censorship of any opinion that deviates from the party line. The ideological box gets smaller and smaller, and that’s not conducive to generating ideas. I think Kos is censoring his site into irrelevance.

Kos was part of the Clinton machine, shutting down Bernie supporters any way possible. It was flat-out Rovian tactics. Daily Kos was just one cog in the huge mechanism Hilary thought she bought herself. Perhaps you remember that MoveOn came out dramatically in Sanders’s favor in January/February. After they demonstrated their support for Bernie they were shut down for three or four months. Try to find content for Moveon from February to May.
Someone called me from MoveOn asking for a donation in June. I asked politely what happened to MoveOn after they came out for Bernie. She slammed the headset down on my ear!
For anyone who supports the gaslighting we took on Daily Kos, you need your integrity tank topped up.

I am absolutely appalled at the actions taken by the Daily KOS. What happened to the action of rising above the name calling & dismissive comments?
Awful. I am done reading that site.

I have sworn off KOS. I don’t listen to fake liberals.

Me too. I didn’t know Kos was a co-founder of Vox, but that helps explain why that publication is worse than useless.

Kos became painful to read a long time ago. They’re not progressives; they’re just loyal party dogs.

Kos is not a site for “thinking and analyzing”. It’s a site for cheerleading the positions of DNC officials.
Apart for the callousness of Moulitsas comment, it shows a deep ignorance/denial of why the Democrats just lost not only the White House but many governorships as well.
Doubling down on dumb is not likely to yield wins for the Democrats in the future.

Perhaps, my not being part of the east coast, liberal elite leads me not to take spiteful pleasure in thinking that the people who voted Trump in will likely be the most harmed by him. There’s a large number of clueless, yet lucky, Democrats who simply can’t imagine how so many working class people would purposefully vote against their “best” interests. Those people did vote their “best” interests–twice–in 2008 and 2012, and got nothing for it, from a popular, do-nothing President whose sole Legacy will be that he was the first black male President, though I’m sure that he’ll do well with his presidential library and loads of after-dinner speaking engagements (isn’t he just a lot of fun!).
News Flash to Connecticut attorneys: The neo-liberal economy that crashed in 2008 has recovered, at the expense of the wage earning, tax paying public, but only for those who caused the collapse in the first place, the Banking and Financial community, including the several Stock Markets. Millions who lived lower middle class lives in 2000 are surviving on the brink of abject poverty and homelessness, one paycheck from disaster. The only candidate with media exposure who addressed the issue was Trump, however simplistic and empty his words might have been. Hillary stirred herself sufficient to insult those people (the Deplorables), but couldn’t bother to address their concerns in any serious manner.
After stealing the nomination from Sanders, she ran the worse campaign in recent memory. She lost on her own, she didn’t need anyone’s assistance. Nor should desperate voters be blamed for the party and the candidates shortcomings.
When you ain’t got nothing, you got nothing to lose.

Thank you Steve; you’re the first one on here that really “gets it.” The arrogance of the liberal elites has left such a bad taste in my mouth and I feel as “a man without a country.” The irony of their bigotry does not go unnoticed.

You put it so succinctly. I voted Green, not because I love all of their platform, but because I am tired of the know-it-all chattering classes who’ve made careers out of belittling people without even trying to understand their point of view. They could get away with it through the 70’s when it only affected factory workers, but now that the whole middle class is feeling it, they are shocked that their patronizing, “center-right” opinions are no longer cutting it.
I grew up in steel country, now known as the rust belt, watched the factories around me close and ship jobs overseas, and yet somehow remained a liberal. Well I’m not. I’m the left, the real left, and I hope we grow a new party, one that stands for human rights, the right to healthcare, a decent job, and a green future.

Since when have Democrats given anybody but their big money donors “unrequited love and cover?” The Democrats get more preposterous by the breath. Liese Howarth and St. Pete are all for the Schadenfreude of the Daily Kos. It’s not because they, Liese a lawyer after all, live comfortable and fat no matter the Democratic or Republic regime. Wars across the globe, fattening the military industrial complex, treating the environment as a personal trash receptacle for unbridled consumption, torture and other gross human rights violations, a sucking up to Wall Street bankers are common to both parties, but worthy of contempt only when presided over by a Republican. Obama’s wars, okay. Bush’s and Trump’s, not so much. I didn’t vote because even the Senate race in Illinois wasn’t worth the effort to cast a yea or nay vote one way or the other. But had Illinois been a swing state I would have voted Trump as the less effective evil. Not to say I support Trump because I don’t. But that I support the known quantity of Hillary less. Whatever Trump’s gargantuan liabilities, we would indubitably for example, never have heard Lady Clinton denigrating the exorbitant waste of the F-35. Anybody who believes “Democrats tried their best to extend [welfare] benefits” is living in a dream world. Democrats serve the same corporate interests as the Republicans: the vultures in the health care for profit industry, arms manufacturers, the oil companies and Wall Street bankers, George Soros, Warren Buffett and Zbigniew Brzezinski. News flash Rick Wiese. Obama and the Democrats owned both houses of Congress for his first two years as president, and didn’t pass a single significant piece of progressive legislation. Notwithstanding the mandate and political capital Obama had in November, 2008, it took a scant 2 years for the Democrats to get crushed in the 2010 mid-terms. To get beat by the likes of Michelle Bachman and Mike Pence. And that’s blamed on Republican majorities in Congress. What absurdity. I agree wholeheartedly with michael. Perhaps the silver lining will be pitchforks of rebellion. Anybody who thinks Hillary would have been a shred preferable to Trump is every bit to blame for Trump as Trump himself is. What more corruption do you need from Clinton than her venal actions at the Clinton Foundation, or her conspiracies to steal the nomination from Sanders? On just the very short list? Or Obama for that matter. Obama had the unmitigated gall to say on The Daily Show last night that people are obsessed with the substance of the emails leaked from the DNC rather than the source. Trying to sweep that pile of corruption away from witnesses’ eyes.

One thing not being said here is that we need to remember that Kos purged the Berniecrats from his site back in March. He’s part of the why we’re in this situation, so it’s smug and disingenuous for him to now blame the voters for not going along with his corporate golden girl after she stole the Democratic primaries.
So KOS is a POS, that’s for sure.
However, another part of me takes a sort of middle road on this. I’d like to see everybody get exactly the kind of government they deserve. NOT out of spite, but out of a belief in self-determination. More and more, I’m coming to the conclusion that this country has become too big and too politically diverse to govern as a unitary whole.
The folks in Appalachia, Alabama, and Arkansas -I don’t agree with the way they want to live, but frankly that’s why I don’t live there. Here in California, we have different ideas about how to live, and I seriously would like to see us declare independence.
Let them have theocracy if that’s what they want there. Let them impose the Christian version of Sharia Law. They can have “right to work for less” laws, coathanger abortions, pickup trucks with gun racks, and separate bathrooms for anyone they choose. Let them keep Duck Dynasty and Nashville. They can teach kids creation myths and abstinence. If they want to die in the streets when they’re old and sick, who am I to tell them they don’t have that freedom?
And we can have socialized medicine and free tuition. And you’ll be able to go into pot cafe and smoke a fat joint without worrying about police raids. And if you overdose on something (not pot, because you can’t overdose on that), we’ll TREAT you instead of putting you in jail like they do in civilized countries! For free, of course. We’ll keep the best universities, the tech industry and 60% of the world’s biotech. We’ll keep Hollywood, and yes the porn industry too (now that California has wisely rejected the stupid mandatory condom law). But our kids will know all about condoms if they want to use them, and if all else fails then abortion will be there -free and on demand. For 14 year olds. Yes, without their parents’ consent, dammit, as Californians including myself voted for THREE friggin times and we don’t want to fight that battle again thank you very much! And we’ll be able to marry anyone we darn well please. And every child will be educated in English and Espanol and our borders will be open for PEOPLE but well-regulated for Capital, because we do want to protect jobs. And we’ll put the world on notice that the 6th largest economy in the world will only sign free trade deals if they match our stringent labor and environmental standards. Otherwise, no iphone or Viagra for you!

I was Sanders supporter who stayed home last month, but if it were to come to a choice between hard working coal miners and whiny little a-holes like those who post on and read the Daily Kos, I’ll side with the miners. They should all be very ashamed of themselves.

@Mark from Queens who in hell is he to call out the Bern when Hillary was THE worst of the worst. Right out of the gate, saying Henry Fucking Kissinger I her friend and mentor, my God I wondered did she ever want to win? Even Republican friends found that amazing when asking Liberals to vote for her! And while I'm not sure I'll bother reading the new book, it might be fun to read about that level of stupid.

#10

Found this too, "Did Bernie Sanders Botch An Interview With The Daily News? It’s Not That Simple.", in which he says:

(To be clear, I have my own view, that Sanders has shown himself to be a lousy manager of his staff on Capitol Hill over the years, which doesn’t bode well for a presidency, and has not shown much interest in organizing, or ability to organize coalitions within the House or the Senate to advance his agenda, outside of his audit-the-Fed legislation, and some improvements to Obamacare. That’s troubling, but it’s different than deciding he’s not serious and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.)

As opposed to, say, Hillary's amazing ability to organize and inspire, create coalitions, get things passed, manage her staff?..heh. Right.

She fucking lost to the worst candidate/biggest goon ever to bungle up to a politician's podium. These interference-runners for the status quo of Neoliberalism should die a thousand deaths.

@Mark from Queens I had thought before the general election that if Hillary were elected, there would be a major purging of any islands of leftist democrats and anybody associated with Bernie. After the election didn't think much about it until it became obvious starting in January that the establishment democrats were going forward in rooting out Bernie deplorables. And this included smearing Sanders and his supporters and his policies. And so even in defeat the democratic establishment is still going forward with the purges in the DNC and in other leadership positions.

Bernie for whatever reason is playing sheep dog, or what I prefer to call a Greek siren. His role is now to put progressive lipstick on the donkey, and attract leftists to the democratic party and of course wreck themselves on the shores of the party.

#10

Found this too, "Did Bernie Sanders Botch An Interview With The Daily News? It’s Not That Simple.", in which he says:

(To be clear, I have my own view, that Sanders has shown himself to be a lousy manager of his staff on Capitol Hill over the years, which doesn’t bode well for a presidency, and has not shown much interest in organizing, or ability to organize coalitions within the House or the Senate to advance his agenda, outside of his audit-the-Fed legislation, and some improvements to Obamacare. That’s troubling, but it’s different than deciding he’s not serious and doesn’t know what he’s talking about.)

As opposed to, say, Hillary's amazing ability to organize and inspire, create coalitions, get things passed, manage her staff?..heh. Right.

She fucking lost to the worst candidate/biggest goon ever to bungle up to a politician's podium. These interference-runners for the status quo of Neoliberalism should die a thousand deaths.