What’s Wrong With The Democratic Party

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The podcast was pretty interesting, and I would recommend it. Ralph kept pushing the fact that we know what is wrong, but how do we fix it. They talked about when the US had third parties, and how the two parties killed them. They support the Tea Party model and want to know what in the hell everyone is waiting for.

One of the biggest takeaways for me was their contention that we need a new left. It has been coopted at the top and will never hold the Democrats accountable. The example they give is unions, teacher unions specifically. Planned Parenthood was another example. Bernie was stronger on women, trade, and unions, yet these useless tools backed Hillary in defiance of their membership. If they hadn't of bailed Hillary out, she would have lost to Bernie early in the primary.

The bottom line, which pisses me off, is that we are the change we seek. It is up to us to primary and hold accountable the Dems, particularly the leadership. They all think destroying the Dems from within is the way to go, and say that if we think that's hard, third party is 10x harder.

None of these men are novices, naive, or tools when it comes to politics or the Democratic Party. For me, this podcast gave me some clarity on how to move forward and vote in 2018.

What’s Wrong With The Democratic Party

Published by Skro35 at April 15,
- See more at: https://ralphnaderradiohour.com/whats-wrong-with-the-democratic-party/#s...

Just click on download. It will download to your browser, not your computer. It is about 40 minutes long.

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Comments

CB's picture

dead donkey.jpg

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gulfgal98's picture

@CB that is one fat donkey, bloated on corporate money.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

Hawkfish's picture

@gulfgal98 Must be the time of year.

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It's like two plus two equals fish! -- The Big Short

dkmich's picture

@CB

Me too. Caught my attention right away.

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dkmich's picture

@CB @CB

That picture of the donkey was one of my favorite things about the podcast, but I was too lazy to put it up.

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Lookout's picture

about breaking through power. I'll look forward to listening to his podcast.

I've wondered if we could take over public broadcasting. It really wouldn't take many people. We need some sort of platform to educate Americans of our exceptional violence, aggression, cruelty, greed, destruction....

Time for teach-ins. There holding some teach-ins alongside the Climate marches.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

dkmich's picture

@Lookout

Wants to know why we aren't pushing PBS and NPR to put Franks, Curry and others like them on the air more. He suggests more town halls for the like-minded on the left to plot and strategize against the Dems.

There was a lot crammed in there. In some ways, it was nothing new. For me, it was who was saying it more than anything. If they believe we have to take it over from within, well, who else with their credentials is making any credible argument to the contrary. They can't ALL be sheep dogs.

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Azazello's picture

I'm a huge fan of Thomas Frank. I think I agree with these guys, that the Democratic Party can be taken back from its current corrupt leadership.

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dkmich's picture

@Azazello

I think we needed to blow up Hillary as much as Trump hurts. I do think we got the Dems attention by taking Hillary Clinton out. They'll never publicly admit it, but I think we made them nervous. Question is what do I/we do in 2018? Do we destroy the superdelegates or try to buffer against Trump?

I know they talk about "primary". I don't think that is enough. We need to make them lose in the primary - even to a Republican, and we need to make them lose in the general - even to a Republican. They need to feel the pain if we are to have any shot of taking them over from within.

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Azazello's picture

@dkmich
I have been approached by a local Democratic organization about helping with a progressive takeover of the Party at the county level. I'm thinking about joining. I'll try not to go in with a chip on my shoulder but I will take a copy of the yellow book,

and this handy chart.

I will not support any candidate who will not come out explicitly for Single-Payer. That's the sine qua non for me.

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gulfgal98's picture

@Azazello One of the biggest reasons I really like Frank is that he has the wonderful ability to write and speak in the vernacular that anyone can comprehend. He is an easy read and an equally easy listen which makes what he has to say extremely effective.

I love paragraphs such as this one from one of
Frank's articles in The Baffler.

Were you to draw a Venn diagram of Democrats, meritocrats, and plutocrats, the space where they intersect would be an island seven miles off the coast of Massachusetts called Martha’s Vineyard.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

@Azazello
Is what the Birchers did as the first step to taking over the R party. That and school boards. Took them a long time, but with the internet and historic contempt for D and R, that could be pretty effective quickly.

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@jim p @jim p The Tea Party and the other radical wings of the GOP were able to take over school boards and other local and state offices because they had GOD on their side. They presented themselves as Christian soldiers in a crusade against those evil liberals. It did not hurt that the Koch brothers had billions to spend in the take over of the GOP from ground level on up.

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travelerxxx's picture

@sandiapeach

They actually did have God on their side. The hard right evangelical churches had a massive existing communications network in place that the far-right GOP/TP co-opted. This has been described (if I remember correctly) in Thomas Frank's WTMWK.

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@Azazello

Please note that Canada, right next door, with its diverse population, (which I'm pretty sure I've heard used as an excuse for American politicians being, to phrase it kindly, too incompetent to implement a universal public health plan, along with that of the country purportedly being 'too big' to manage it,) comes in at exactly half the cost of America's per capita health costs on that chart...

Time to accuse the Republicans of Big Government wasteful habits and lousy budgeting? Or long past time, considering what a constant it is that they run up massive public debt without having any productive results or, for example, doing their jobs in maintaining the welfare of the country and people?

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@dkmich

How do you make a Democrat lose to a Republican in a primary?

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dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

to a different Dem in the primary. If that fails, you make them lose to the Republican in the general, e.g., Hillary & Trump.

I don't think we have enough power to win, but I do think we have enough power to make the Dems lose if we vote for the Republican. It is a double tap if you will. They lose one Dem vote and the Republicans gain one. This makes our one vote worth two. If we vote Green, they only lose one vote. Does this make sense?

I am not saying I like voting for Republicans, but I think we need to hurt the Dems in order to have any power.

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@dkmich

that is not what the post to which I was responding was talking about or I would never have questioned it. (I do understand generally how voting works. https://caucus99percent.com/content/word-about-voting-november-okay-many...) This is what I was responding to"

I know they talk about "primary". I don't think that is enough. We need to make them lose in the primary - even to a Republican, and we need to make them lose in the general - even to a Republican.

As far as voting Green, I have done that since 2012. If no Green is running for a particular office, I have written in. However, I live in a state where my vote makes zero difference.

According to a Democrat poster on another board, Stein, who got only about 1% of the overall popular vote and zero electoral votes, got enough votes in four states to "cost" Hillary those states; and, had Stein votes in those four states gone to Hillary, Hillary would have won the electoral vote.

I don't post on that board and I didn't feel like checking the facts stated in the post: If no third party at all was on the ballot in 2016, those votes might not have gone to Hillary anyway. And, I might add, the poster seemed a lot angrier at people who voted for Stein than Democrats or indies who voted for Trump. (Same for Democrats for Bush in 2004, Democrats for Nixon, etc.) So, it seemed like the usual Third Way "always punch left" bs noise.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

@HenryAWallace @HenryAWallace
Party than they are at Repubs. They're mad because we didn't vote the way we were 'supposed' to vote. Our votes were their's too, or didn't you know that?

EDIT: 2 stupid typos!

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@Amanda Matthews

that anyone posting stuff that makes no kind of sense is posting strictly as a hobby. And being madder at people who voted for Stein than at people who voted for Trump or stayed home makes no kind of sense. So, maybe they have some reason to shill for punching left.

IOW, I tend to be cautious about what I post. Maybe not 100% of the time, but often.

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dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

It made sense when I wrote it. Sorry.

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@dkmich

That was another poster. I understood your posts.

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@dkmich

Lol, make the Republican Dem corporate candidate lose primaries to an actual progressive Dem, you mean? Too bad they cheat...

But why not work toward setting up strategic 3rd party voting throughout the country using the internet, while we still have it? Canada did it, but unfortunately suggested voting either corporate Liberals (which was appallingly stupid suggested lesser-evil voting to keep the Cons out) or NDP, who could have won had they had a real leader who'd stuck to the Social Democratic platform.

And the NDP, last I heard, were being investigated for giving out information to Fair Vote Canada on the grounds that a non-profit organization being given maps and data to use in constructing a plan for a public good in implementing a long-needed Fair Voting system was a violation of campaign finance laws in terms of 'in kind' contributions from a political party to a... non-profit 'political party' with no intention of, or organization for, running for office?. I could be confused on this, because this concept being advanced makes me dizzy... but Trudon't is, of course, breaking his promise of a Fair Vote System, justifying this by claiming the development of a sudden public 'no interest' from the existing great interest of the public and 'proving' this apparently by simply (a la Harper) not sending the verification email for signed petitions about this and other topics, together with a dystopian warning about permanent petitioning barring for any person posting more than one petition copy - and with no option given for making inquiries.

This could be expected from the corrupt Liberals who should never have been voted in ever again, and even more so regarding the Cons.

This obviously also holds for the US Two-Faced corporate Party wings, with which Canadian Cons and Liberals share Koch-sucking proclivities.

Like Canada, America has two horrible corporate Parties which do not belong in public office, so not making the mistake of sticking to that Two-Faced Corporate Party Trade-Off until they've actually succeeded in killing off all voters - which could easily occur prior to the next election or next week - might be a real life-saver, assuming that a landslide for a non-corporate party was made too obvious for the people to be cheated out of a non--corporate Party win.

There are more Indies (and reluctant 'who else are they gonna vote for') voters in the US than there are actual supporters of either wing of the corporate Party. This is an essential fact which must not be forgotten - there is no reason to vote for evil even if your vote doesn't count. The Parasite Class depends upon the public going along with their pretenses and pretensions whether voting for them or not at all.

A too-obvious-to-cheat national sweep by a 3rd party would either have to be passed or spark desperate public protests, but at least it wouldn't be continuing willing engagement in same-old-same-old no-choice voting for an evil (by either name) which is literally killing not only the American people and country but life on the planet, assuming that any of either still exists by the next US elections.

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QMS's picture

@Ellen North Indies vs. corps

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wake up and live

SnappleBC's picture

@dkmich is that reacting to "the bad party" is exactly the game they want me to play. I refuse to play it. I vote for the candidate who best represents my interests. So for me personally I have no interest in buffering against Trump.

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Just to get this out of the way, Yes, I'm a plant from DKOS paid for by the DNC

Alligator Ed's picture

My answer is well-thought out in all its complexity:

It's because it ain't dead yet.

By the way the bloated belly in the picture is from decomposition gases--that critter's already dead.

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gulfgal98's picture

@Alligator Ed the donkey, that is. Sad

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

detroitmechworks's picture

It's Full of Democrats.

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I don't Blame Christians. I Blame Stupid. Which Sadly, is a much more popular religion these days.

Lookout's picture

@detroitmechworks

full of democrats owned by corporations and big money.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

@Lookout

the Tea Party was funded by billionaires, like the Koch brothers, who not only had money and organization and ability to hire tons of people from Day One, but already wielded lots of power in politics, both in the US and around the world.

And, I might add, already had experience in taking over a party from the inside because they'd funded and helped run the DLC in its early years.

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Big Al's picture

"The Republican and Democratic parties are alike capitalist parties — differing only in being committed to different sets of capitalist interests — they have the same principles under varying colors, are equally corrupt and are one in their subservience to capital and their hostility to labor." Eugene Debs.

It's the system. For those thinking the party can be reformed, they'll be going up against over a century of reality.

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@Big Al

considerably better for workers for a time. Social Security, the Wagner Act, support of unions, etc. That was when fats cats funded only Republicans and unions were the main campaign donors to Democrats. However, when Democrats got greedier, they decided they could find other sources of funding so that that they did not have to worry so much about people who had to work for a living.

If unions had still been the primary source of funding for Democrats, EFCA would have passed the first month of the Obama administration, maybe Inauguration Day, when he signed the Lily Ledbetter bill. And, he would not have made a crack about comfortable shoes with zero intention of ever acting on it.

Granted, Debs would have been better for workers than either Teddy Roosevelt or Woodrow Wilson, but therein lies another tale.

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before I published my essay today. I had been working on it, a piece at a time, for days. If I knew you posted an essay on a similar topic this morning, I would have held mine for another time.

Dash 1

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dkmich's picture

@HenryAWallace

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@dkmich

essay anyway.

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How can you change or beat a party that would rather lose to Republicans than move left? Democrats will gladly be a permanent minority as long as the gravy train keep steaming along.

It seems to me that taking over the party is easier than building up a 3rd party with the resources to actually compete, but it's still damn near impossible.

I'm beginning to agree with Mark Twain:"if voting made any difference they wouldn't let us do it."

Torches, pitchforks, guillotines. I'm starting to believe that's the only way anything will ever change and as a country we're nowhere near that.

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Wink's picture

@Dopeman
you might think. Should Trump sign a bill to privatize or end Social Security the 55 and up crowd will be out there with pitchforks.

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On the radio at netrootsradio.com On Twitter @winkradio. All about building progressive media. (-1.9 / -1.9)

@Wink @Wink I'm on daily kos timeout right now. I started responding to the smarmy comments about why President Trump is Bernie's fault (which are EVERYWHERE). I wasn't rude about it, I was careful not to attack anyone personally, I just stated the facts as I see them (Hillary and the DNC are responsible for President Trump and if they didn't rig the primary Bernie would have won). That was enough to get 2 comments hidden and earn me a timeout.
Keep in mind, I only responded to comments that blamed Bernie and his supporters. The Bernie bashing comments were recced up and my responses were hidden. I tried to complain to support and was completely blown off (got what looked like a copy/pasted boiler plate statement about how "both sides" need to get over the primary).
Both sides... but only one side gets hidden & timed out. There's completely one-sided enforcement of site rules. The "don't criticize Hillary" edict never really went away.

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@Dopeman

... There's completely one-sided enforcement of ... rules. ...

How to identify a Parasite Class infestation.

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@Wink Damn it. I replied to the wrong comment. This was intended for the comments below about daily kos.

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Wink's picture

@Dopeman
I hung on there as long as I did. I didn't hold back all that much in blasting Hillary, strongly supporting Bernie.

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k9disc's picture

Well, it can be taken back, but it will be sabotaged.

It's too easy to kneecap someone trying to build something. The Left taking over the Dems will have to build something new -- keep caucuses together, vie for the political air in the room, and ruthlessly promote an empathetic message that engages people.

Pitting these people with these requirements against billionaires and their professional propagandists doesn't look good for the final product -- a victory of the Left.

The billionaires and the professional propagandists don't give a shit about winning. All they have to do is sabotage the win and they get what they want. Giving them access to the caucus and throwing our lot in with them means that they will have great power and sway, much like Bernie currently has/had, how's that working out for us?

A new party puts us ad odds with them. It's obvious that we are opponents, and corporate muckraking will not happen from teammates, but from opponents.

"Even Bill Clinton came out for welfare reform." That shit and LIEberman's support of failed conservative policies cost us dearly in the last decade. That is what is on the agenda by working within the party.

YMMV.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

gulfgal98's picture

@k9disc with your assessment, k9disc. A couple of years ago, I was still in the naive and optimistic category, but Obama delivered me from that stupidity. Now I am a crass realist.

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

Wink's picture

@k9disc
if the Pro Left is gone.

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k9disc's picture

@Wink

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu

Wink's picture

@k9disc
is displaced by Berniecrats it won't matter what they do.

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@Wink

Personally, I'd take the Zombie Hillary Campaign continuation as a grim warning.

The politically Undead, kept re-animated by infusions of stolen-from-The-People power and money from Big Funders/The Psychopathic Class, are difficult to eradicate... the latter must first be 'foiled again' and left twisting their nattily trimmed mustaches in despair of ever achieving global destruction.

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Azazello's picture

You did a post on Ryan Grim's article at HuffPo when it first came out. Have you seen these ?
I've watched them both and I still can't figure out what he's trying to say.

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gulfgal98's picture

@Azazello @Azazello is straddling the fence on every question. Ryan Grim is afraid of angering Markos so he triangulates around the questions.

What Markos did in March 2015 was unconscionable. He did exactly what the Clinton campaign did to Bernie's supporters. He and they said they did not need us then. Now they are trying to make nice with window dressing only and it is not working. You cannot build a party by tearing down the very people who should be your allies. You took them for granted and then got pissed when they said hell no and you continue to piss all over them even now. My take on all this is that Markos is a very petty person who holds long term grudges. I did not like him before and I like him even less now.

Edited to make sense

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"I don't want to run the empire, I want to bring it down!" ~Dr. Cornel West "...isn't the problem here that the government takes on, arbitrarily and without justification, an adversarial attitude towards its citizenry?" ~CantStopthe Signal

Wink's picture

@gulfgal98
his Ides of March pronouncement - shut up about Hillary or find your ass BoJo'd - I wrote one of my few non-radio diaries there, saying, "kos, you're backing the wrong horse." I got my first T.O., but I knew that it wasn't just teacherken and a few others bowing to Hillary - the kos man his self was All In with I'm With Her –>
Jeebus. No, kos, BernieBros won't be back in 2018 or 2020. That bridge burned. Run Her Highness again. I double dog dare ya.

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eyo's picture

@Azazello LMAO, that's what happens when talking about DailyKos minions and their petty censorship software, "hiding" comments from the public, who does that? Orange! The whole site goes perfectly with the current nut case in the White House, same color exactly. Ha ha ha! Dead site walking, still makes $$.

Talk about a sewer, BreitKos? DailyBart? same same, except Markos is tiny in comparison, his "front-pagers" are robots I think, or a bunch of templates. He is the kind of greedy immigrant I would've kept out of California, if I thought that way. The kind that take take take, lick boots, and talk talk talk about how great they are at the taking. Extraordinarily useless in real life. That is current Democratic electoral politics in a nutshell, whoever sucks or blows the most moves up a square. Recruiting fresh meat ain't gonna fix a broken system, wait and see. People are people and bribery via lobbyists, consultants, all that crap is still legal. Legal!

Good luck.

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On a blog.

Wink's picture

party - the Dems - have no interest in winning. Zero. None. It took me two years of buying pizza for the local monthly Dem meeting, but it finally Did sink in that "these mofos don't give a damn about winning, only care about the cocktail parties, monthly pizza meetings" where they can show us rubes how relevant and "connected" they were. I thought it was just my local yokel dem "leadership," but turns out that road leads all the way to the DNC. On top of that they have zero intention of moving Left. Moving Right is one way of maintaining their fiefdom. To move Left would invite more of us to their party. Something they have zero intention of doing, snug as a bug in a rug hobnobbing the Beltway scene with "the right people." (not us).

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lotlizard's picture

@Wink and still admire the warmongering Bush poodle Tony Blair as being everything a Labour Party leader should be.

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@lotlizard

Yup, because the actual Left is for democracy and government in the public interest, whereas the 'Elite' - who are not and are a Parasite Class - are against the public interest in order to bleed off the people's power and money to be limited for a very - and shrinking - few.

This isn't, at bottom 'just' about control, it's about Life itself surviving a rapacious parasitic infection of psychopathic Greeds who will brook no reality-based limits to their pollution and predation upon the world even though they, too, will ultimately suffer and perish as a result.

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k9disc's picture

Like he knows the history but didn't live it.

Daily Kos = money is power. They were not part of the discussion until they started this massive fundraising. Wow! Quite a statement, eh?

Straddling the fence, indeed. TYT lost as much luster as Bernie has. Ain't that some shit?

And the narrator had an interesting POV on the "broad coalition" -- was he referencing dissidents or was he referencing the center?

Should the dissidents be catered to or the centrists? For me, the answer is the dissidents, as the center is garbage in garbage out. I think TYT is sliding to the center, and believes that we need conservative independents in our coalition to resonate. I think that's completely ridiculous.

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Wink's picture

@k9disc

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eyo's picture

@k9disc thanks, every time someone says Joe Lieberman this song falls out Biggrin

It would be great to see the pendulum actually swing back the other way for a change. It's like the damn thing always stops at 6, never gets to 7, 8, 9. I'd like some 11 for a minute or so, how 'bout that? Abandon the Third Way, it is DOA, dead on arrival. Get off the pendulum, swing swing swing. Thanks.

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Azazello's picture

@k9disc
He seemed to know something about the history of the site but obviously never spent/wasted as much time there as some of us did. For example, he's reporting for TYT but never mentions that they ran Cenk off the site.

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k9disc's picture

As if they were an investment vehicle, which is the closest iconic kin.

Separate, the Left can get some space to breathe. Included, the Left is starved of oxygen from all the corporate money flying around.

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“Tactics without strategy is the noise before defeat.” ~ Sun Tzu