About that 'Russian aggression' against the Baltics

Read any western news media outlet and you'll find the Baltic nations trembling in fear of the Russian Bear. For example:
Lithuania prepares for a feared Russian invasion
Latvians ready to defend their country in the underground if necessary

Holy Shit! no wonder we sent troops to the Russian border.
The people of the Baltics must be terrified.

More specifically, 58% of Estonians, 46% of Lithuanians and 42% of Latvians said they see Russia as the greatest potential threat to their country in a comment on the survey published April 4.

That certainly implies that all this fear is justified.

Except that the inference is total BS. That poll above asked something general.
Consider what the results are from a more specific question.

The poll asking 1,000 voting-age citizens of Estonia which of the two they consider a bigger threat for Estonia at the present moment - the European refugee crisis or a potential aggression by Russia - attracted 64 percent of responses in favor of the former and 24 percent in favor of the latter.

That's Estonia. Now consider Latvia.

The Estonian Center Party that defends interests of the Russian-speaking population has recently gained ground in the country becoming the most popular party, a TNS Emor poll revealed Friday....
The party favors strong ties with Moscow and is widely popular among large Russian-speaking Estonian population, which forms some 25.5 of the total population, according to the official government statistics.

And then there is Lithuania.

Lithuanian TV station TV3 held a survey which aimed to discredit Russia, but the results were just the opposite.
The viewers were asked: "Do you see a growth in Russian propaganda in Lithuania?".
The vast majority of viewers (82%) replied that "It is not propaganda. Russia is telling the truth".

A lot of this news media hysteria is done with Ukraine as a background. For example, the people of the Baltics are terrified of Russia because of what happened in Ukraine.
But what do the polls say?

For example, in Poland, Lithuania and Latvia, the percentage of people who consider both sides of the conflict to be responsible is similar (21%, 23% and 23%, respectively), while in Latvia, the group pointing to Ukraine’s responsibility is relatively large (31%). In Latvia, especially the Russian-speaking respondents put the blame on the authorities in Kyiv (67%), whereas they practically do not acknowledge any responsibility of Moscow (4%). In the case of inhabitants of Latvian ethnicity, the pattern is quite the opposite (66% of respondents from this group blame Russia, 6% blame Ukraine).

Let's return to that poll above, where roughly half of the people in the Baltics "see Russia as the greatest potential threat".
Those results are consistent. I found this poll from 2007.

Almost half of the polled residents of Lithuania said Russia was the bigget threat to their country, according to a phone poll carried out in five major cities of this Baltic state, reports Interfax.

That might make you think that people in the Baltics have always been terrified of Russia, but in reality it only shows how a poll can be used to imply something that isn't true.
For proof, consider this Gallup poll which is also from 2007.

In the Baltic States, Lithuanians gave Russia the highest marks: 38% said that they had a positive attitude. In Latvia and Estonia the corresponding figures were 36 and 34%.

That same poll had negative attitudes toward Russia at 23% of Estonians.
In other words, people in the Baltics have a mixed attitude toward Russia, but few of them are fearful and most of them are open-minded, unlike Americans.

Finally, we should mention Ukraine.
The frontlines in Donbass haven't moved in over two years. Even if you falsely characterize the War in Donbass as a Russian invasion, rather than as a separatist civil war, there is still no on-going Russian aggression by any measure.

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Bollox Ref's picture

that when we recently travelled to Strelsau in Ruritania, they were very concerned about an Ottoman invasion. CNN Zenda played constant loops of Janissaries marching up and down, just across the border.

Scary times.

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

@Bollox Ref

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After the fall of the Soviet Union, I spent about a month in Lithuania, mostly in a small village in Western part. And I have known Lithuanian refugees here in the States. Most people made a distinction between the Russian people and the Russian-dominated Soviet government. People, okay; government bad. Americans don't see that distinction so you see American emergent hatred of the Russian nation and people as a whole.

I think alot of the fear and hatred of Russians goes back to World War II, where Lithuania found it self between the Communists and Nazis. Many Lithuanians jumped on the side of the Nazis, and became vicious anti-Semite, anti-Russian collaborators. There is the infamous case of Kaunas, and where I was at, stories of local farmers and villagers trying to save young Jewish girls, as the Nazis came in and pretty much executed all male Jews.

Lithuanian hysteria of Russians owns its foundation the same sources as the Ukrainians--local anti-Russian/Soviet neo_Nazism. But I believe these are minorities, but their voices are loud and influential.

And there is also the matter of money from the EU and NATO. The more shrill the hype, the more military in the country spending money. Crying wolf makes news, and monies. If there is any country Lithuanians fears, it is Lithuania as the exodus into the EU has been utterly staggering for such a small country. Lithuanians didn't leave because fear of Russia, but fear of poverty. While I was there, I swear the entire nation was either learning English or German, while watching South American novellas translated into Russian.

I have met a decent number of Russians in the states, and nearly all are very fond of the Lithuanians. Go figure.

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@MrWebster

distinguishing between a nation's government and its populace. I do agree that many people in other nations do make that distinction about us. (Either that, or they are damn fine actors when around Americans.)

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edg's picture

@HenryAWallace

Simply consider Iran for that most Americans don't distinguish between the people and the government. Many Americans want to "bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb, bomb Iran" even though a large majority of Iranians like the US and wish us no harm.

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@edg

("many" Americans) is different from the unqualified statement to which I replied ("Americans don't see that distinction"). That said, I'm not sure I agree that many Americans want to bomb Iran. Yes, McCain said that. And, yes, many can be ginned up by their political heroes and McCain is a hero to a segment of Americans. But, I think most Americans want peace.

I think, too, that most Americans encountering an Iranian in their midst, whether in a classroom or at the supermarket, are not moved to blame that person for what the Iranian government is assumed to have done. Maybe it's because I've always lived in diverse cities, but I don't see Americans being nasty to people from any country.

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@HenryAWallace

Perhaps the point was, at least in part, that it would be the people getting bombed, not the government and that - due to the intensive level of propaganda to which Americans have been long subjected - a lot of people don't get that part or, not having thought about it, aren't bothered by the idea? Too bad that everyone can't see the posts here about the realities of this War On The World...

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Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.

A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.

@Ellen North

different, point--that, in edg's mind, Americans allegedly wanting to bomb Iran might be blaming the Iranian populace, along with the Iranian government, for things the Iranian government did or does. In both cases, I am sure war-mongering governments would not mind such conflations, if indeed many Americans are so conflating.

A few Americans do seem very willing to see people die, even to kill them, simply because they live in those nations or because they are, or are imagined to be, Muslims. And again, I think it important to distinguish among "Americans," "many Americans" and "a few Americans." One of my difficulties is that I don't know what data any of the posters to whom I responded about this subject are relying on for their claims.

Anyway, not knowing what edg might have been thinking or on what he was basing his thinking, I responded to what I thought edg literally posted. And edg did not elaborate after I replied.

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journalists who make a crucial difference at very important points in time, gjohnsit, I would give it to you. Thank you for making this point here in America where our knowledge of the rest of the world, even of Europe and its people, is so tiny.

I'm beginning to wonder if this hype to create nuclear war with Russia isn't only a way of saving the industry of NATO, but that perhaps spending on NATO is what keeps the EU alive. The thing about military spending is that it's so big and so illusive, that maybe it is corrupt enough to be underwriting central banks.

Is that possible?

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mimi's picture

propaganda from both the USians and Russians.

But looking at the bio of one of the authors of one of your links, makes it clear that quite a bit of little people have immediate suspicions about US specialists, who worked for the State Department, CIA, Radio Free Europe, Voice of America etc. The guy needs his paycheck as anyone else. One can't expect his analysis to be "politically indedendent" from those he writes and worked for through his whole life.

Paul Goble is a longtime specialist on ethnic and religious questions in Eurasia. He has served as director of research and publications at the Azerbaijan Diplomatic Academy, vice dean for the social sciences and humanities at Audentes University in Tallinn, and a senior research associate at the EuroCollege of the University of Tartu in Estonia. Earlier he has served in various capacities in the U.S. State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency and the International Broadcasting Bureau as well as at the Voice of America and Radio Free Europe/Radio Liberty and at the Carnegie Endowment for International Peace.

It might be unfair to be suspicious of those specialists, but enough 'little people, who are not specialists' are. May be we are all dummies, like many elderly 'little Germans' who never believed a word coming out from Voice of America in the late fifties and sixties.

Thanks for the report, gjohnsit. Many links are eye-opening to me, for example the different results to the same poll questions between Latvia and Lithuania. I am till trying to read them and follow their links too, to know who those news outlets are and with whom they partner. Much appreciate your help to put those links together.

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which are hard to come by these days, into the hysteria that is like oxygen--so omnipresent that one rarely thinks about it.

I can't say I am pro-Putin. I can readily say that I am anti-deception and anti-manipulation; and I believe we are being carefully manipulated and deceived. IMO, this wave began years before before the start of the 2016 primary--maybe in 2012. While it got old really fast, for me, anyway; it shows no signs of slowing down, let alone stopping.

Vocabulary note and hattip to Luntz: while I seldom heard the word "oligarchs" or "plutocrats" from media, independently of Sanders and his supporters, I suddenly feel as though I am watching reruns of OA when I watch the news. Of course, media are using that term only in connection with Russians. Heaven knows, America has never had oligarchs or plutocrats of its own. (cough--John Hancock, John D. Rockefeller, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet--cough.) http://politicalgates.blogspot.com/2011/12/citigroup-plutonomy-memos-two...

How utterly anti-productive "our" collaborative media is nauseates me.

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. . . it was pretty damn aggressive of the Russians to move their borders right up against all those NATO countries !!! /s

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mimi's picture

@PhilK
living in Germany and she told me that people in Poland are not scared of the Russians, but that they can't trust Putin really, as nobody knows what he could do, as the NATO moved too aggressively their troops towards the Russian/Polish borders. Then she said they can't do anything about it anyhow and will just look what happens and served us a steak. Vox Populi not that easily bamboozled, I guess.

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