More from Draft Bernie
Submitted by Lookout on Mon, 02/20/2017 - 12:53pm
Let me apologize in advance for quickly dropping this. I'm in the middle of a project, but I heard this series of interviews with Jimmy Dore and Nick Brana who is spearheading a Draft Bernie movement. I hope you might find one or more of interest too.
12 min
16 min
15 min
16 min
I must admit I can't get too excited, but if this started to move I might add my voice. Still I suspect I'm done playing politics. What do you think?
Comments
Nope.
Nuff said.
Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.
Thanks for pull them together and posting them here.
They were on my schedule to listen to later. I think I'm done with politics too. Did you see Obama was named the 12th best President ever?
He so sucks.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I thought historians waited a while before making that kind of
judgment, to get some perspective. In any case, I knew they would rate Obama high because of having to deal with the 2008 crash, including bailing out the US auto industry, etc. and passing Obamacare. It's the first national health care plan and it doesn't matter that he had had all the cards to pass a better one, but blew it.
The so called
recovery from the 2008 melt down is the weakest recovery from a recession since WWII. Recessions do end even if you do nothing. Obama bailed out the finance sector and left mortgage holders in the lurch. Even the auto bailout included wage cuts and provisions that weakened labor. It also hit bond holders a lot harder than the people who ran the industry into a ditch.
On the other hand I never expected to see a black president in my lifetime and there were no major scandals closely associated with Obama over 8 years. Political scientists always said the first black president would be a Republican.
In the minds of "the left of the left," Obama will always
be synonymous with massively wasted opportunity, perhaps even betrayal. However, the PTB, being either neocon or neocon/neoliberal, views him and his actions through a very different prism.
I'd like to know what you would consider a major scandal?
Thankfully I wasn't drinking a beverage then or I would have choked. How about continuing America's longest war? How about Kill Tuesdays? How about knowingly participating in Killary's illegal and possibly treasonous email fiasco? How about plotting to cut Social Security? (Actually the latter is not a scandal. It is a disgrace.) How about making millions of dollars during his Presidency, you know like African and South American politicians do? How about collaborating with Killary in overthrowing Ghaddafi and bombing Syria? How about arming the "moderate rebels" in Syria, i.e. Al-Qaeda who then passed their arms to the rest of the ISIS team?
I rank Obama in the worst 10 presidents, because unlike many others, he squandered chances to be a truly great president, rather than the first darkie in the Oval Office?
Maybe it's semantics
but most of what you have defined as scandals I define as despicable policy choices. I suspect he sold his soul to the PTB as an undergraduate. I don't know about the money you say he made in Africa. I didn't see much effort at personal enrichment compared to many other presidents. (I think he has a deferred compensation plan.)
If you're referring to the Clinton scandals that occurred under his watch, you're welcome to use my 6 volume abridged index as a reference. But I don't think they were attached to him by the people who did the rating.
Yes, semantics is relevant
But how about whistleblower persecution, mass deportation? Sometimes it is difficult to parse "semantic" from "scandal".
they were right.
Didn't expect that. That was funny.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@FuturePassed
But 'major scandals' virtually always seem to involve sex and who gives a fuck about those? The criminal things that are far worse than scandals get a free ride in dragging us all down a bad-intentioned road to hell...
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
I suppose a lot would depend
on exactly which historians they asked.
native
The kids are alright.
My generation screwed things up pretty good. The younger people are going to have to fix things if they can. This interview gives me some hope and if this draft Bernie thing starts to take off I'll jump on board. Thanks for posting it.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I can't help ....
but like Nick and his enthusiasm...that's why I posted this. They have an interesting approach accepting pledges but not money until Bernie runs. I thought it was worth a listen anyway.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Azazello and Lookout
I really like Nick Brana too and I believe he is not completely naive. My big problem and this is what Jimmy Dore noted in the 4th video is has Bernie soiled his credibility with not only his support of Clinton, but even moreso with this whole Russia thing?
I would like to see these folks get a good operating core together and maybe some politicians on board who are not afraid of the Clinton/Third Way Machine to create a core around which to build a movement. It would take a few politicians who are not afraid to risk their careers on behalf of doing the right thing.
The other option which I would prefer is to build a social movement supported by well known national figures from the arts and entertainment, like Jimmy Dore, Lee Camp, Mark Ruffalo, Shalene Woodley, and Susan Sarandon and then get Bernie to bless the movement. I do agree with Nick that if there is a time for a third party, we are seeing it now.
Quite frankly, we have seen this play before and it always ends the same way so I am not optimistic. But I want the millennials to lead the way since they have the most to lose.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Millennial impetus
This is true:
However, they also have the most to gain. I think they're up for it.
@gulfgal98
I'd be wary of a movement led by personalities from the world of entertainment. I believe there's too much mixing of politics and theater as it is. And besides, for every celebrity on the progressive side, there's a half a dozen that supported Clinton, or worse.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
You need some high profile people
if you want your movement to get national attention.
Right now most politicians are tainted which is why I suggested the people I did.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98
I don't think Bernie is tainted. But that aside, if you're going to stay away from politicians, who are you going to run ?
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I guess I was not very clear
I was talking about a social movement. If the social movement takes off, then we talk about politicians running for office.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
@gulfgal98
Cenk Uygur and Jimmy Dore are doing something like that now. They're calling it Justice Democrats, I believe.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
@Azazello Not to
Not to borrow a metaphor from Trump, but why do we keep marching into the Fire Swamp?
Hope we're as clever and quick as Wesley.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm totally on board
the Bernie Express. It could be the 2018 game changer.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Great
Go for it!
Marilyn
"Make dirt, not war." eyo
I usually have little patience for watching videos. It takes so
much longer than reading and videos are usually much less focused and less informative than a well-written article. So forgive my stupid question: Is Bernie to be drafted to be the new party's head, similar to a DNC head, or to be the new Party's candidate for POTUS in 202O, when Bernie would be 79 on election day and inauguration day and 84 at the end of the first term? Ageist or not, I don't think someone that age has the physical stamina and reflexes to be POTUS.
I guess my dumb question is moot anyway, because I don't think Bernie will accept either role. Even though he is technically an indie, he is tied to the Democrats in the Senate. He is, in effect, their candidate for U.S. Senator from Vermont. So, he has not had to compete with Democrats when he runs for Senator from liberal Vermont. I don't think he wants to campaign for his Senate seat at this point. I am not sure he needs to campaign for it, but still.
Meanwhile, this is an interesting article about the new party, though it does not answer my dumb question: http://observer.com/2017/02/nick-brana-new-progressive-peoples-party-ber...
Among other things, it states that the number of people who self-identify as Democrats decreased from 31% to 25%, just between November 2016 and January 2017! Many of us Demexited before November, so I wonder what the figures would be if they compared, say March 2016 with March 2017.
Yes I agree, Bernie is too old now.
He might be good for VP though. With Tulsi Gabbard to head the ticket? I think that combo might possibly fly. But as you say, I doubt that he would accept the proposal anyway.
native
But Tulsi might! I think Democrats are grooming
Gillibrand, unless Ready for Undead Hillary takes off.
If there is not a woman at the top of at least one ticket in 2020, there shall be blood. And I am sure Democrats want to be the first to elect a woman President. A Hispanic woman would probably be their first choice, but I don't know if the bench has one who could win.
Tulsi Gabbard
is about as ethnically diverse as you can get. She's a woman. She has military experience.She acquired a generally sane foreign policy perspective largely on her own. (Her critique of the US line on Syria was the most effective I've seen and she developed it after talking to a lot of Syrians. Any other Democrat would have talked to Soros and Saban.) And she has demonstrated the courage to stand up to the powers that be.
If she's in "I'm with her."
You don't have to convince me. However, I think the Dem PTB
would choose Gillibrand over the woman who rebelled against the head of the DNC in order to be fair to Sanders, when the Party agenda was to be unfair to Sanders. The PTB don't favor disloyal foot soldiers. It's the kiss of death, so to speak.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjUOBVAbGhQ]
The VP has to be ready to be President.
If Bernie is not ready to be President, he is not ready to be Vice President, either. We cannot assume that someone will be able to serve for four years, simply because he or she is younger than Bernie.
As Cheney ghoulishly observed, the Vice President has two duties, to preside over the Senate and to inquire after the health of the President every day. (There is also the tie-breaking vote, of course, but I don't think Cheney mentioned it.)
@HenryAWallace Nick said that 14 million
Nick said that 14 million people left the Dems. Trump will be the Dems' way of getting the usual suspects back into the people's good graces, after transforming the people into raving McCarthyites. At least, that seems to be the plan.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
History
You know, it seems like a decent amount of older people try to present themselves as "enlightened". (Not all, you'll see in a moment)
Such as...if you wanted to vote 3rd party this year, you were dutifully reminded about 2000 and Satan himself: Nader.
"Well you young kids are still idealistic and naive. Don't do it."
Or if trying to get politicians who are trying to push people-centric policies.
"Well you young kids obviously wouldn't know about McGovern."
However, if the young kids point out how many of these older folks are suddenly falling for this neoMcCarthyism...well it is suddenly different.
One thing that I have come to be annoyed by are people who try to flaunt recent history (say the last 50 years or so) as being something people not born in that generation can't process or truly understand. I mean, we have history books and news articles. The information to what happened in the 70's, 80's, or 90's isn't hidden away in some secret vault only people in that generation can access...
I don't know, sorry, somewhat off tangent I suppose.
@Strife Delivery No, I get it, it's
No, I get it, it's horrifying to watch, really--and somehow the awfulness of Trump is supposed to explain/justify it all.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Thanks, Lookout.
When time permits, I will give them a listen.
The people who are currently extracting the most political use out of Bernie are the Third Way-ers.
His time to ping pong back and forth is nearing it's end.
His position is to reform the Democratic Party while calling for a Revolution, in large part, against Thirdway-ers, to be led by others.
Meanwhile, he is not a Democrat.
I am interested in what the youngsters think of all this fence straddling.
Bernie needs to stop the cold war/hot war bullshit with Russia, like, yesterday.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
The failure of the Dems is obvious...
and if (when?) Perez gets the nod perhaps even Bernie will figure it out. I think we just have to wait and see. It is an interesting conversation (maybe?).
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Bana makes a very good point about how MSNBC reported
the Sanders response to the Todd question.
Look at how hard the Dems are coming to rely on Sanders to help out with the populist anger and #DemExit. Let them lean harder and harder so that when he walks away they collapse utterly.
His primary campaign exposed the duplicity of the DNC and the Democratic party. He changed the message to one about inequality and the 1%. Our Revolution is taking over state parties (CA just recently). It is laying the groundwork for either successfully reforming the Dem party or successfully replacing them with a new progressive/people's party.
Ugh! Wash, Rinse, Repeat.
He's sheepdogging for the party that lost around 14 million voters. And he didn't stick up for his supporters or himself when we were screwed by the DNC. He totally ignored it. In fact, he ignored every single issue that MIGHT have made him the nominee.
"I don't want to hear about any damn emails".
No.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Who else then?
There is no one that can bring what Bernie still brings.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Tulsi Gabbard
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
Yeah! And Nina for VP!
That's the ticket, baby!
@Amanda Matthews
Never heard of him /her. Oh, is that that woman who body slammed that RW asshat on tv?
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Yeah, he brings the 'New' Democrats and more of the
same crap.
No more Sanders.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
no.
There is an exercise I learned in philosophy class which might help.
"What would Bernie have to do to make you give up on him?"
Your list was way too much for me. don't forget the tax returns and Doc Jane's dealing at Burlington. And you just had to have that lake house, didn't you?
A few hundred people could start to save the world right now, and they just won't do it.
Talking about the members of our present Congress. Every last one of them.
That's what I like about Gabbard. It seems either no one
else is interested in fixing what's wrong with the 'party' and the country. If there is anyone else they must be too afraid to come out like she did.
Now they're all bloodthirsty and conspiracy obsessed (a conspiracy of the 'left's' own creation).
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@Amanda Matthews I like Tulsi, but she
I like Tulsi, but she couldn't get me back into the Party.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm hoping she's going to see how worthless the 'New' Dims are
and goes Indie or 3rd Party
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
@Amanda Matthews
Actually, he said people were sick hearing about the damn emails because he stuck to the issues in an unprecedented manner, and avoided personal attacks.
Say what you might about what horrendous propaganda - which he knows that none of his informed supporters would ever believe - he may find necessary to mouth in order to achieve this, Bernie got the issues out there and is keeping them alive in the public eye and mind, which might be the best he can do at this point. Revolutionary change, as in a move toward democracy in America, must come from a groundswell which carries all before it.
Edit: would also add that TPTB might not want to alert the serfs by having only the Republicans remaining to run for election, especially after having spent all that money purchasing the Dems.
If they insist in allowing only the Two-Faced Trade-Off Corporate Party Dems and Repubs as 'political parties', perhaps taking over one or the other from the bottom up is the only potential means of pacifically entering/affecting the process at all.
Not that I think Homeland Security, the State Department or corrupted other departments/agencies to allow any more 'surprise' wins involving actual votes and voters now that they have utter and Top Secret control over all electoral aspects and essentially all aspects and agencies of government.
One bad apple 'left to stand as a done deal, to be fixed next time, every time' can rot a lot of barrels, over time.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Yeah, it wasn't like those personal attacks would have won
or that they weren't of great interest to his supporters. Like discussing the criminality of the pay-for-play politics of the Clinton creature. Or her two faces, one for the plebs, one for Wall Street. Or her failures in Libya and the ensuing humanitarian crisis. Or any of the OTHER valid reasons that she had no business of being allowed in the Oval Office and that rightfully SHOULD have been brought up by Sanders. OR HER CAMPAIGNS COLLABORATION WITH THE DNC TO CHEAT HIM AND US OUT OF A FAIR PRIMARY. He didn't even make a peep when DWS went right from the DNC to Hellery's campaign.
He can keep on taking that high road all the way to his new vacation home. And he can stay there as far as I'm concerned. I don't really think he's going to be able to herd too many back into the veal pen. And THAT is the final absurdity and obscenity. He's putting himself out for the Democratic Party now. He's burnt his bridge.
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa