The Time To Ditch Bernie Is Now

Headline in today's The Hill: Sanders: "Clinton Will Play Vital Role In Future Of The Democratic Party."

So, now that the lingering "will he, or won't he run in 2020" doubt is settled, it's time to put Bernie in a nostalgia basket and push on. Apparently, his run really was a well-scripted sheepdogging effort to herd lefties and Millennials into the Killary fold. Look at the wreckage left in the wake: shellshocked Bernie delegates, tossed aside by the DNC; betrayed and poorer supporters who, once again, drank the Cool-aid of hope and real change; Trumpism now rules the land; third party dreams dashed. I don't have any answers. All I know is: the demoralization is complete and the Democratic party is dead.

http://thehill.com/homenews/campaign306532-sanders-clinton-will-play-vit...

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Oldest Son Of A Sailor's picture

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"Do you realize the responsibility I carry?
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."

~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,

for the correct link.

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Pricknick's picture

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Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

be a democrat. Or progressive, or liberal.

Bernie is either in the air over the shark, or else he's already jumped it.

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. "There have been a few times this past week where all I wanted to do was curl up with a good book and our dogs and never leave the house again.

Though I hear Assange favors cats.

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Lookout's picture

Did you see the Ecuadorian embassy cat? (16 sec)

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

OLinda's picture

I had seen a picture, but not the video. So cute.

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- - - -
If you don't like the Mafia, why don't you join it and change it from the inside?

lunachickie's picture

kitty! Wonder whose idea the tie was? He looks like a cat to be respected...

I-m so happy

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either unisex attempt at fashion by Julian Assange, or he is going crazy, being cooped up so long, and fell into whimsical second childhood to cope. Her outfit was in honor of the Swedish official who visited this week to grill Assange on the "rape" charges he is facing. "Embassy Cat" is her temporary moniker and she has her own Twitter account and is promoting WikiLeaks on the website via for-sale items, like T-shirts emblazoned with her photo. She has quite a following, and write-ups in Time, RT and elsewhere. She was a gift from Julian's children, who visited him this summer.

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"Sophia"(wisdom) is my pick. Also 'Sophie" works as a calling name.

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elenacarlena's picture

He has a point, she won the popular vote. But that was mostly everyone trying to stop Trump. The most disliked candidate ever. If they give her a role, then we definitely need a new party.

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

In 2015, the Clintonistas were saying to each other than they had "leverage" over Bernie.

A newly released email from WikiLeaks’ Podesta files shows top-level Clinton campaign members discussing the “leverage” that they have over Sanders to control how he spoke about Hillary Clinton during the primary race in May of last year, and another shows them scheduling Sanders’ endorsement of Clinton and planning how they’ll use it to rally the progressive vote in December of last year.

Although Caitlin interprets this as being proof that Bernie was pressured:

http://www.inquisitr.com/3680558/new-wikileaks-emails-suggest-bernie-san...

The truth is, we have no idea what that "leverage" consisted of, carrots or sticks.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Amanda Matthews's picture

Why in the world is this continued judas goatiing and/or sheepdogging of Progressives excusable? If he's that compromised then he needs to just quit now and go to that vacation home he and his wife recently bought. Or level with the people who can barely afford necessities let alone a vacattion home and ask for their support and get the neo-liberal's collective foot off his throat. REGARDLESS, lying to the 'left' and attempting to rehabilitate the Clinton name is not the way to end a career. This 'he's been threatened' is no defense. That is not our problem and should not become our proplem.

Of course he could be doing this of his own free will. In which case he really needs to go away. We can get by without him. He' not to be trusted.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

For whatever reason, I don't know why. I never said in my comment above that Bernie was to be trusted. In fact, if you look at my comments in this diary, you'll see I'm absolutely on the other side. I agree with you that he should step down or at least stop attempting to pretend he's fighting for some progressive something or other. I'm not defending him and never was. My assertion that Bernie was probably blackmailed is not about rehabilitating Sanders' reputation, and it never was. It's you that keeps putting it on that basis. I'm trying to get at the truth, using logic and evidence.

I disagree with you on this much: I don't believe this was a sheepdog operation from the beginning. I think Bernie started off sincere, and at some point, probably in June when he got that phone call from Obama, they showed him the leash they had on him, and pulled him in, thinking he could then serve as a useful sheepdog. Since June, he has absolutely been a sheepdog, no question. After he went to Obama, Biden, and Reid to no avail, he became part of the Clinton machine and started doing what he was told. Being appointed head of Outreach by Chuck Schumer basically underlines that: they might as well put a sign around his neck saying Official DNC Sheepdog--Do Not Pet Me, I'm Working. So OF COURSE we shouldn't follow him anywhere or listen to what he's saying! Not now.

Would it help if I said one thousand more times that it's really shitty what was done, not only to Progressives but to the entire American people, by first "crushing Bernie Sanders to paste" as the Podesta emails suggested they should do, and then trotting out a zombie version of his campaign to fool us with so we'd continue to funnel money, time, and faith into the Democratic Party that had just screwed us? You have no fucking idea how much I hate the Democratic party establishment at this point. I was tricked into coming back to them once (Howard Dean/John Kerry 2003-2010), believing they could be reformed. This time, I became a Dem again only to vote for Bernie, and always intended to become an independent again at the end, regardless. There's nothing that happened this cycle that has changed my mind about that. I did not vote Democratic in the general, and I'm leaving for good as soon as I find time to get down to the damned Superintendent of Elections.

Does that make my position clear? I'm not Bernie Sanders' PR firm. I *am* interested in how people like the Clinton machine control people, especially politicians, because that has some relevance for the long run. More generally, I'm interested in using logic and analysis of evidence to uncover the truth.

If anybody gives a shit what I think, this is what I think: we can't trust any DC politician, and we should listen to none of them, including Sanders.

Does that make my position clear?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Pluto's Republic's picture

It's the same as it always was.

But, question:

It was my understanding that Bernie went to the Dems way back when to discuss his possible candidacy on the Democratic ticket. There was a negotiation at that time. Then, he switched his Party and began to organize.

Wasn't the arrangement made back then?

Surely, some understanding was worked out with the DNC, then. Hillary was already the presumed winner. The sheepdogging talk started before things got rolling. In an impartial way, I thought it was probably a good idea. I ignored his campaign until March 2016, when the Party started infighting.

Now, looking back, Sanders ideas sounded crazy and radical when he started. (The nation had shifted so far right.) I think that was the idea. He would be a fringe candidate with a utopian vision. And in the midst of it, it seemed like his fringe caught fire and took on a life of its own. He was supposed to drop out. It was a sure thing. Poor Markos thought so.

Did you ever get the idea that his popularity was completely unplanned?

I guess if that were true, it would have been in the emails.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

just to keep certain ideas alive in American politics. He didn't bank on the fact that America was this ready for his ideas, and would rally to him so powerfully. I think it took him a bit aback. However, I think he is a person of some integrity, and I think simply throwing the election to Hillary was a bridge too far for him. So he didn't drop out on March 15, and he kept going, with the idea of a contested convention.

I don't think Bernie signed on to be a sheepdog or run a false campaign. But I think he did probably assume that he, with only 3% of the country even knowing who he was, a guy who calls himself a socialist, a guy without much charisma, wouldn't be able to seriously challenge the behemoth that is the Clinton machine. If he had dropped out when they wanted him to and campaigned for her starting in April, I'd believe the whole thing was a sheepdog operation. The way it went, I think he was stuck between his sense of political duty to his supporters and the power structure that he didn't, really, want to be in a life-and-death struggle with.

Remember when some of Hill's people got irate at Bernie, saying "that wasn't in the agreement?"

They were pissed because he was actually, really, competing with her--something that I bet none of them--or him--imagined would be possible.

So, no, I don't think he was engaging in that campaign for the purpose of shepherding us into the Dems--I think he engaged in that campaign to make sure certain ideas didn't get flushed down the memory hole. And yes, I think he did (for the most part) run a real campaign against Hillary (the place where that fell down was his refusal to deal with election fraud). However, starting in June with the phone call from Obama, the trip to DC to meet with Obama, Biden, and Reid, he folded his operation and became a willing part of the Clinton machine. Since then it's been all sheepdog, all the way.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

elenacarlena's picture

You are thoughtful.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

post ANYWHERE accusing you of anything, let alone defending Sanders. I don't know where you came up with that.

It said that you didn't KNOW what they have on Sanders that allows them to put pressure on him. That is ALL your post says. And I answered THAT ONE POST, I didn't go looking up and down the thread to see if you posted anything else because there was no need. Because my point was STRICTLY SAYING that if he's going to pander for the Clinton creature because someone is holding something over his head IT IS TIME TO GO.

And if you've got anything that can be called 'evidence', real and provable evidence, that would explain his actions and sudden turn into Clinton's BFF, then please share it. All the rest of us have are guesses and speculation. And I don't care whether or not he started off trying to herd us into the veal pen, all that I know is that is all he's trying to do NOW.

Relax, no one accused you of ANYTHING.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

I am guessing we will never know but I would argue it doesn't matter. I live in Burlington and, in this moment, with what I have seen, I wouldn't even follow Bernie to the local coffee shop. Whether by design, intention or not, we were sold out and it will continue as long as we allow it.

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CambridgePulsar1919's picture

I hate to take the ice cubes outta your anti-Bernie Kool-Aid, but that home purchase was funded by the sale of Jane Sander's inherited family home in Maine.

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Amanda Matthews's picture

he got the money in some nefarious way. I'm just saying he has his, gotten however it was gotten, but now he needs to knock off the nonsense and quit telling those WHO DON'T HAVE THEIRS that the Clinton creature is an honest person and that she has a place in the American political scene. Now would be the perfect time to go on a vacation because he's become useless to the Progressives in the party, in the Green Party, and to Independents.

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I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks

Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa

mouselander's picture

from the article:

“I will admit, coming here tonight wasn't the easiest thing for me," Clinton said. "There have been a few times this past week where all I wanted to do was curl up with a good book and our dogs and never leave the house again."

I wonder if she realizes just how many millions of people there are the world over who would fervently endorse those sentiments? Following her devastating defeat in the 2016 presidential election, Hillary Clinton dropped from sight and was never seen in public again. Now there is a sentence I would truly have loved to read in her obit!

On the subject of Sanders, have to agree that he is looking more and more like a "Vichy Democrat" and less and less like a true champion of the common folk. Through his embrace of Democrats like Clinton, Obama and Schumer, Bernie is telling us in no uncertain terms that it's important to build an alliance between "progressives" like himself and the neoliberal Democratic Party establishment.

In other words, between one faction that wants to empower and improve the lives of ordinary citizens, and another dedicated to picking their pockets, depriving them of a meaningful voice, destroying their financial security, and generally selling them down the river.

Yeah, without a doubt, that should work. This is as clueless and insulting as someone in the 1850's saying the anti-slavery movement should make common cause with "enlightened" slave owners.

The basic reality is that on some issues, you really can't "split the difference." At some point, it's necessary for a moral person to draw a line in the sand, and say that you're either on one side or the other. Bernie is not, and really never has been, willing to do that. So sadly, he is basically useless. Time for anyone interested in really meaningful change to turn the page and move on.

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inactive account

Wink's picture

the same he made in Philly. Polite, but no real support for Her Highness. SAme ol' Bernie. "My candidacy brought millions of new voters to the polls - most of whom voted for Hillary." Well, he was right on the first half, polite on the second. We'll hear less (if anything) about Hillary from Bernie as Bernie 2.0 emerges at a venue near you.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

Poor Bernie, the neolib Dems blame him for their loss, and the progressives attack him for being a sheepdog. (a really, really bad one apparently)

Bernie has become some sort of political Rorschach test for the left.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

because supporting Hillary says a whole lot about a person. Doesn't say the person is bad, but does say that the person can be intimidated by entrenched political power or manipulated by boogeyman tactics.

As far as Bernie goes, he's one of those people, for whatever reason. I don't know his reasons, and it doesn't matter much. He won't lead us anywhere useful because he's incapable of revolutionary action and he's living in an era where corruption is so endemic and powerful that reform is basically impossible.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

In his case supporting Hillary might very well have been a manifestation of his sincere belief that Trump would be worse for working people than Clinton. You and I may disagree with him on that conclusion, but I haven't seen any evidence that he's insincere.
You believe revolutionary action is needed, and cannot come from within the Democratic Party, and I agree with that. Bernie does not, obviously.
As far as sheepdogging goes; that's in the eye of the beholder. The fact that Hill's people blame him for driving voters away from their candidate doesn't help his CV as a sheepdog. One could argue that if he was sheepdogging, he chased the sheep into Trump's field. One could; I won't.
I prefer actual evidence to supposition, so I'll wait and see if he's willing to get balls-deep in the Neoliberal slime to save the Democrats.

We'll see.

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Before even taking the Oath of Office, Trump has:

1. Ended the TPP, a trade deal Bernie was vehemently opposed to. Hill's private face would have implemented it, after Obama forced it through the lame duck session.
2. Ended the spectre of president Clinton starting WWlll with Russia, after declaring a Syrian fly-free zone.

Not a bad week's work, eh Bernie? Why can't you acknowledge this, if these issues are important to our survival? Can't get any starker than this.

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lunachickie's picture

he's just going to keep trying. IMO, he really believes that reform is possible. I disagree with him vehemently on that, but in the end, he kept on doing what he was doing, and I didn't vote for Her Heinous. So there's that...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

elenacarlena's picture

The only role she should play is as a cautionary tale.

Please feel free to steal.

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WHY is Bernie Sanders doing this?
Schumer has already named him to his 'team.'
WHAT is being used to get Bernie to do this, or, does he really believe it s the right thing to do, which makes me wonder just how damn naive I was to believe in what he was saying when he was running...

Chalk up another illusion - as when I trusted "hope & change" a million years ago.
This is SO damn sad.

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Wink's picture

nod, has bigger fish to fry.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

orlbucfan's picture

Anyone been watching his speeches lately like today? TPP is dead as of right now. He's 75 years old, and still the only one raising havoc over climate change. tRump is too stupid, and $hrill is crooked and backwards thinking. So, what is it on here? You're starting to sound like T(he) O(ther) P(lague).

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Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.

Bisbonian's picture

as is our support of Al-Nusra, and probable war with Russia, because of Trump. Stupid or not. Bernie had nothing to do with it, since he was urging us all to vote for Clinton at the time (I'm sure that's exactly what they would say over at TOP.)

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Roger Fox's picture

but currently C99 doesn't resemble the web site I joined in Feb 2015. So many here claim Bernie betrayed us, sold out, was beat up, blackmailed.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Bisbonian's picture

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Roger Fox's picture

among others.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

Bernie, unfortunately, has to work with what he's got. Unfortunately, he needs the cooperation of alot of people we don't care for in order to get what little he can get done (because Congress is stuffed with dems and repubs who oppose him).

I'm glad Bernie is extremely tenacious. I'm glad he'll continue to force issues front and center. Without him (and a few others, like Warren, to give appropriate credit), many of the issues important to the electorate would never see the light of day.

What exactly would you do, if you were in his position? Quit? Obviously, Bernie is no quitter.

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dfarrah

lunachickie's picture

thinking Sanders was coerced/blackmailed into supporting that bitch loser Her Heinous. When I look at him, I see a guy that, after 30-some-odd years of being one kind of political person--one who got stuff done regularly and consistently, and who built coalitions, and who (last time I looked, anyway) remained popular with voters back home--who has become a shell of his former self. I don't understand the whole "betrayal by Bernie" thing here, either. I can read those DNC emails just like anybody else can, and they do not paint a pretty picture of what was done to the guy and done in his name--which was, by extension, done to all of us. Did his supporters get screwed? Well of course we did, but I really don't think it was his idea. He gains nothing for doing such a 180.

Little matter, though--somehow it only seems to be here, on this really progressive blog, that my saying such a thing is tantamount to being a cheerleader for a sheep dog, or some such. Like CStS, I often feel like that's taken out of context regularly here and virtually slapped around, and some of it gets rather dickish, far as I'm concerned. But hey, we're all free to speak up, right? I'm with you in a general sense. I sometimes wonder, though, if the difference is, I can't take what he did to me and did to all of us personally, even though what happened affected me personally and everyone else I know. I can't--I have no room in my head or my heart for, cuz I have enough shit of my very own to deal with--I can't carry around such bitterness, I find it poisonous. It seems so pointless. It changes nothing.

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The children that abuse is wrong, but won't leave to make a better life for herself and the children. The wife (Bernie) stays with the abusive husband (Dems) because???? It's the children (us) who suffer because the battered wife (Bernie) gives mixed messages and teaches us that fighting to have a better life is futile. Revolution, indeed!

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Where exactly is Bernie to go?

He is a senator who supports most of the policies that we (broadly speaking, people here at this website) support.

If you want him to leave the Senate, then that is one less senator on board to push for our policies.

He's not a democrat, so he can't 'leave' the dem party.

He can't very well crap all over the people he is working with if he wants their cooperation in passing some of his pet projects. He couldn't crap all over HRC if he wanted her support for his legislative goals.

He also raised a good chunk of change for progressive, democratic candidates, although in this repub wave, they didn't fare so well. The neolibs in the party sure aren't going to help progressive candidates - the progressives get kneecapped before they even get out of the gate, in part due to the lack of funds.

Don't we want him to be as effective as possible while he is in the senate? Don't we want him to raise funds for progressives?

We are not helpless children, and Bernie has not quit fighting.

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dfarrah

Link to Podesta email was given by CantStoptheSignal here recently.
What kind of leverage? No hints there.

Could simply be committee rank. My guess is taxes, maybe worse. If there is any crooked dealing, I bet Jane,er Doctor Sanders, is in the middle of it.
Not a big fan of the Mrs. at all. Not so much on Bernie anymore, either.
Disappointed(again!),not angry.

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Not Henry Kissinger's picture

if I told you she tried to stop Bernie from endorsing Hillary?

From:re47@hillaryclinton.com
To: hdr29@hrcoffice.com,john.podesta@gmail.com, ha16@hillaryclinton.com
Date: 2015-05-20 16:40
Subject: Shumlin

I just talked to the Gov and his Political Dir. He called Bernie a
few hours ago and said he's endorsing you, Madame Secretary. It will
be public at 3:30 today.

This was a bold move for him so it would be great if you can call and
say thanks.

Apparently Jane Sanders has now called him twice and begged him to
change his mind and he's stood firm.

Huma, I will send contact info asap.

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The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?

To answer your question: no, not with respect to her honesty. And that was the issue to me.
The show she put on here was enough for me: http://www.bloomberg.com/politics/videos/2016-04-11/jane-sanders-we-will...

There were serious problems involving money and lies from her stint as as Burlington College president. Not to mention whatever is in those tax returns.Or the repeated revisions she did of Bernie's Senate disclosures. Then there is that mail-order doctorate. And she pushed for the hasty purchase of the lake house. There are questions about how it was paid for. Jane is in the middle of that. But you get the idea.

I wasn't asked to vote for Jane, but she was right in the middle of the tax return problem. She lied through her teeth. There was no thought of ever putting those returns out. They all lied to us for months, and then walked away from it. grrr.

That Jane didn't want the clock to chime twelve is "beside the point" to me. thx.

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[deleted]

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What don't we know? What "leverage" was Mook referring to?
What don't we know?
Not "claiming" - asking, don't understand why Bernie is doing this.
If we can't ask questions - must be on the wrong web site.

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Apparently, people want to toss the guy who has consistently supported for decades what we support; his results in the primaries were nothing short of stunning, participation in the primaries were at historic levels, the people finally felt heard by a politician, and Bernie does not want to quit - he wants to keep fighting with even worse odds now.

You really have to wonder why so many people are agitating to dump Bernie and want him to shut up and go away; at this time, I cannot believe that they are not shills deliberately placed.

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dfarrah

context, just makes you sound like one. What's wrong with Bernie supporters honestly trying to puzzle out why Bernie's current behavior is the opposite of "primary Bernie" behavior? Are you the morality police, like Clinton supporters? You gonna start calling us misogynists, racists, white privilege deplorables? Obama diehards played that game also, when voters noticed that Obama ditched every campaign promise he made and filled his administration with corporate Third Way types.

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Roger Fox's picture

He never was a demi-god.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

of the shill accusations. It's so "other site" like.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

Perhaps I shouldn't have so enthusiastically gotten behind a diary whose title advocates "ditching" him, but the bottom line is, I don't trust/believe in Our Revolution or Brand New Congress; I don't trust/believe in the sort of watered-down Dean/DFA strategy he's using, particularly in the absence of any serious attempt to stop election fraud and voter suppression; I don't support the moves he's making, which only serve to strengthen an establishment that treated both he and I like shit.

I rallied to Bernie because he opposed corruption and now he's saying that Chuck Schumer is the best possible choice to lead the Democratic caucus. Schumer, who is the only Dem I can think of other than Lieberman who might be MORE corrupt than Hillary Clinton.

Bernie is now engaged in two things: pretending the Dem establishment is progressive, and claiming it can be made progressive. The first is absolutely untrue; all attempts to make the second happen, for the last 42 years, have failed. The Dems have not moved left since George McGovern. I should know; I was deeply committed to the Dean movement. We worked our asses off, attained a considerable measure of electoral success, and ended up with...the Democratic party moving right under Obama.

Now Bernie's trying to sell a watered-down version of the same thing, except that at least Dean, at the time, challenged people like Rahm Emanuel and Nancy Pelosi, whereas Bernie is making no challenge to Schumer whatsoever. He's acting like Schumer is Eugene Debs come back to life, when in fact Schumer isn't even Huey Long. Hell, he's not even FDR!

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

divineorder's picture

Going forward. Some impressive shit happened in the campaign and I want to see that nurtured.

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A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.

Roger Fox's picture

Srsly?

So you never created an event at berniesanders.com, so you wouldn't know about groundcontrol whih gave you access to bernies list via phone banking to build attendence for your event, or the fast forward email feature hich sent out an email you write to 250 bernie supporters near the event you are trying to build attendance for.

Berniesanders.com provided us with not just the next step in online distributed organizing tool, but 100% next gen.

DFA, Moveon.org, mybarackobama.com dont even remotely compare. And Coders for Bernie are now working with OR and BNC and a new set of even more empowering online tools.

To make the statement

I don't trust/believe in the sort of watered-down Dean/DFA strategy he's using

suggests to me you dont understand the impact of online campaign organizing, or you have an axe to grind. And heres why, the democratic party is already more progressive..

54% of Dems think the party should be more like Sanders, not Clinton. And 55% think Clinton should retire. And ya know what it wasn't like that on Nov 7th.

I don't trust/believe in the sort of rational that compares DFA to BNC. Personally I'm going to take all the free stuff they have to offer and use those tools to good effect. Pardon me for recruiting my own candidates for local races and teaching them how to be a candidate and to use all the free tools.

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FDR 9-23-33, "If we cannot do this one way, we will do it another way. But do it we will.

of candidates for the Democratic Party's presidential nomination of 2016."

oh, well.

to follow Bernie down this path because .... Bernie!

not me. If he starts making sense again, good.

but at this point I would not follow Bernie to the bathroom.

don't expect much factual rebuttal of your piece. (++)

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folks have the right to believe what they will. Would you rather we censor?

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detroitmechworks's picture

By a raving mob of HR gangs.

What makes C99 what it is, is the fact we can say whatever the hell we like about candidates, and not face institutional/site censure.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

for being paid trolls, instead of doing it at TPW.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

do you have a link to that at TPW? I'd like to see it.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

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shaharazade's picture

I do not think there are paid trolls here. There are however people who are not Democratic partisan's and do not believe that the party can or should be reformed. It's allowed and it's not trolling. As for Bernie I do not care why he is carrying water for the Clinton's Democratic political machine. The fact that he has thrown his and his 'followers' lot in with freaking Chuck Schumer makes me sick. I hope it doesn't work as Our Revolution is a sick veal pen joke. I do not hate Bernie or want to bash him but I'm sick and tired of being told that I'm a troll or a basher if I don't thank him and get behind his bait and switch revolution.

I never liked Warren she another exRepublican war mongering neoliberal fer god sake. I always held back from going gaga about Bernie as once bitten twice shy and his foreign policy stance freaked me right out. Here's what I found inspiring about his campaign, the movement who he gave political voice to. This was not his movement it's been a long time in the making. It will continue but not with him. It will imo happen out side the duopoly and it will happen globally as these 1% psycho's are globalized armed and dangerous. No justice no peace.

He's done his bit for the establishment Demorat's and I hope no one listens to him. He's full of it. I cared about her damn e-mails and I thought he was way too easy on her. Once again this is not a partisan site or a fan club for any pol. What is so hard for people to gasp about this concept? It's tiresome to come here and have to read about Bernie, the Democratic freaking party being reformed and supporting the phony Dem. progressive candidates who fold like a cheap tent.

So what if I don't love or feel the Bern. At this point he's just another pol the 'good cop' to placate the sanctimonious radical 'left' and lead them back into the fold. So is Warren, Ellison and any other Democratic progressive that caucuses with the Dem. criminal thugs and then offers us some more 'victories for compromise'. Lesser evil my ass. They are complicit. do you all think they will get together and be obstructionist's to the lunatic RW Republican's and The Hairball. Hell no they will pump the culture war identity sexist, racist hate cards and maybe get up and symbolically filibuster to and empty floor.

The good news in my opinion about this horrific sham of an election is that it further exposed the corrupt duopoly and most of us agreed 'were so screwed 1016'. Why try to revive a party that is long gone as far as being democratic, or even upholds our civil and human right's? You Bernie loving, fix the party people get over it and quit talking about there being trolls here. Those of us who don't have their head in the sand and can see beyond the partisan and pol persona divide are allowed to express ourselves.

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Lookout's picture

is the site they are talking about (I think).

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Leipar Destin's site.
I enjoyed lonestarMike and don Midwest contributions back in the day.
They are now posting here.
LD is native American, finds lots of good articles about DAPL.
Otherwise, it is all about Bernie and revitalization of the Democratic party.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

shaharazade's picture

I'll check it out as I'm really into NoDAPL, Black Lives Matter and any movement, protests or resistance by real people globally. I have nothing against people working to 'reform' the Democratic party but I think it's a waste of energy and time and simply empowers the evil duopoly. There really is no 'progressive' wing of the party. Even Merkley my senator has been neutered. He wrote a letter to one of the NoDAPL groups that sounded just like Hillary or Obomber. Both sides need to blab blab blab Corporate goon squads 'workers rights' count to. I'm going to become what I once was a radicalized lefty activist outside the gates of the duopoly pols and their owners.

We all want some democratic representation, economic justice and our basic civil and human rights restored so we are working towards the same end. I just want the Democratic 'reformers' to stop giving people here a hard time when they refuse to toe the partyline or Bernies line. I also want these freaking bloody wars to stop as well as our militarized police state. All of the party dances to the Oligarchical Collectivists including Bernie. I'm not, since 2011 a Democrat. I didn't vote one of them this election.

They have no redeeming value other then 'Do you want a vagina probe along with your austerity.' Their veal pen orgs. are just as bad. Shah got an e-mail from Move On yesterday that made me laugh and then cry. It said (paraphrase) look what we (the progressive Democratic wing) have done by electing president Obama. We ended the war, got the ACA (healthcare reformed) and then listed other non progressive anti-democratic, globalized corporate bs. passed off as bottom up change you can believe in.

Jeeze it's freaking insulting how stupid and misinformed do they think we are? How many times have I heard this same unbelievable propagandist double speak. Why do they think ordinary people rejected the Clinton Dem. Machine and the whole rotten rigged farce of an election. Fear did not win the day and to me this is progress. I better get offline as I have a hard time listening to this time it will be different as Bernie! or Keith Ellison! or Our Revolution. Been there done that for 16 long years local, state and national. I find the fact that people across all the divisive lines they draw, had their bs. meters on full tilt this time. The rat bastard Dems. could not extort the vote with fear.

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"So sadly, he is basically useless."

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Bisbonian's picture

"other" band:

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

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"The justness of individual land right is not justifiable to those to whom the land by right of first claim collectively belonged"

Lookout's picture

...but Charlie is a good one.

Here are my friends and neighbors from a few decades ago and they're still playing around local. (they are certainly among my favorites)

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Bisbonian's picture

is certainly one of my favorites. I saw him performing with Doc Watson...very respectfully helping and taking care of the ageing Doc, as well as supporting him musically. I was close enough to hear some of the things Holt was saying, off mike, and he really impressed me as a kind, considerate man.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Wink's picture

And, no, Hillary and the Clintons are dead political ducks.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

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What I like about Bernie is he is very consistent, very chatty, and willing to put his body "on the line" when it counts. He is not a revolver. He tells the truth as far as I can tell, and he does what he says he's gonna do. That is enough for me.

I did have to stop listening to him after the DNC convention debacle. What a debacle! Wish he would have said more about the censorship but oh well book deal. Vacation home awaits, he has done well for himself and his family, nothing too obscene compared to the rest. I'm glad he still has a voice in the senate 'cause I think he'll use it to keep saying stuff neoliberals and fascists don't like to hear.

Ta

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Wink's picture

Although I think Bernie has way more in the tank for 2017, beyond.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

because rumors are afoot that Chelsea Clinton is being groomed by NY Dems to run for Nita Lowey's House seat in 2018. The territory is soley in Westchester, so no gerrymandered nonsense, and Hill bought the mansion next door to the Chappaqua house for Chelsea and Marc. Gotta keep those Foundation dollars coming in somehow.

http://nypost.com/2016/11/14/chelsea-clinton-cant-let-her-familys-politi...

Nita Lowey, on the other hand, has no intention of giving up her seat for yet another Clinton, like she did when Hillary decided to run for Senator Moynihan's seat. Lowey coulda' been a contender for the Senate, like Bernie coulda' been president, but is still just a Representative, thanks to Hillary. Stay safe, Nita, stay safe and be aware of your surroundings.

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Wink's picture

what, 76, 77? Chelsea can be Westchester's girl for many a decade, but the House is as far as she's going. She can't win NY State. And, who else will have her?

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

Tired of the dynasties! Dash 1

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Yaldabaoth, Saklas I'm calling you. Samael. You're not alone. I said, you're not alone, in your darkness. You're not alone, baby. You're not alone. "Original Sinsuality" Tori Amos

Zenza's picture

when she would be POTUS y'know, according to reports at the time when all was "well" with the campaign. Of course repurposing it for another need makes perfect sense in HER mind. Hopefully the voters of the CD have better sense than that. From the little I have seen of Chelsea, even if she didn't have the major baggage she does, she would make a terrible candidate.

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There's something in this article that leads you to believe "the time to ditch Bernie is now"?

It doesn't occur to you that he's making a bland statement of support for HRC because he knows she's irrelevant? She's down for the count, no need to kick her publicly (no matter what vicarious shivers that may provide).

Even a person predisposed to dislike Sanders should recognize this for what it likely is: a throwaway comment in a nothingburger of a story. A reporter had to write something. This is the best he or she could do.

Personally, I'll base my judgement on action (or inaction) on more substantive issues.

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"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"

Wink's picture

how to read the tea leaves. Bernie just getting started, playing this like a fiddle.

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the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

and systemic voter suppression, except in the DNC-approved ways (reinstitute the VRA! Republican governors bad!--though of course, the DNC and Dem establishment were nowhere to be found when we were fighting for our lives down here in FL in 2000, but it makes a good talking point, as long as you don't actually DO anything about it).

Bernie will never admit that there was election fraud and voter suppression on the Democratic side. Therefore, even in a leadership position, he will do nothing to keep that from continuing. That means that people like John Podesta and his Third Way cronies will continue to control the election of Democrats, relying on fraud when media consolidation and voter apathy won't do the trick. And Bernie is promoting an electoral strategy of primarying Third Way Democrats as the lynchpin of his "revolution." A few will be allowed through to shore up the credibility of the system, but as soon as they get close to attaining any real political power, they will be taken down by the same tactics that took down Bernie.

How do I know this? Because I just watched it happen in the Democratic Presidential primary.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

snoopydawg's picture

He didn't do a damn thing when thousands were kicked off voting rolls, partly affiliations changed and then what happened at the Nevada caucus.
Not one damn word.
If he won't fight for his election and for us then what good is he?
He wasn't the only one effected by the fraud.
Great comment

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It is not until the tide goes out that you discover who has been swimming naked.

Proud election denier

CambridgePulsar1919's picture

You're intelligent, speculate for me. What would be different right now if Bernie had raised holy hell about the screwing he got?
Besides making so many of us feel better, what exactly would have changed, to date?

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Bisbonian's picture

and dismissed, the next time, as a conspiracy theory. Now, it will. Same as it ever was.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

lunachickie's picture

It wouldn't have been swept under the rug, and dismissed, the next time, as a conspiracy theory.

I would postulate that, had Bernie Sanders come out supporting Wikileaks and making the accusation publicly that he was being cheated, he would have been Kucinich'ed. Or worse, maybe even Ross Perot'd (cue cuckoo birds chirping here)

Now, it will. Same as it ever was.

And, here we all are.

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Bisbonian's picture

Or worse, maybe even Ross Perot'd"

Right. Political reality.

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"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X

Cassiodorus's picture

before its disciplinary hold upon Sanders starts to loosen. What are the chances the Republicans will get 60 Senators in 2018?

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"The future is inside us/ It's not somewhere else." -- Radiohead

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