Let post-Convention Bernie do what he must. I am not following him. I went for the message, not the man. When he parted with his message, I parted with him. The message is the momentum now. And I still carry that.

I would (and did before) submit to you regularly that to me, the man SO doesn't know how to sell out, he had to be literally beaten into it,

Anyone who thinks he's stumping willing need only look at his face. In the Morning Joe video posted elsewhere, we do not see the light up the room Bernie smile until Mika thanks him at the very end. We've read that he's been threatened that he's be stripped of any and all leadership with the Dems if he did not dance for Hillary. All evidence points to him doing this under duress.

about Bernie's character and what likely happened to him. It seems the simplest explanation.

However, the idea that we don't need to be mad at Bernie b/c he doesn't own us, which basically comes out of the Not Me, Us tradition (we all got our own minds, make our own decisions, he's not the boss) has its good sides and its less-than-accurate sides.

On the one hand, yeah, it's totally right to remember that he's not our Daddy, that we are each proud individuals who have our own minds and make our own choices, and to move forward from there. So why bother being mad at Bernie? A little sad he's not coming with us, maybe--but the right way to focus is forward.

On the other, this idea tends to smooth over certain differences between Bernie and "us." I mean, if "me" is Bernie Sanders, and "us" is, well, us, "me" is on a very different level than "us." Like, he's a Senator, and I'm not, so he has access to media in a way that I don't, even when the media are sycophantically in the bag for his opponent. He was a Senator running for President, which made people take him more seriously than they're gonna take me, right out of the gate, which means that he has a chance of getting people to fund him and his projects that's not in the same galaxy as my ability to get fundraising for my projects.

So when Sanders removes himself from any helpful form of political activity, or is removed from the field by malign forces, it's not helpful to say "Well, so what? It's not like he's our Daddy. We can do this ourselves."

Well, yeah, I guess I can do it myself, "it" in my case being a cooperative media network that links indie media together, providing for fundraising and defense.

But if Bernie Sanders had, for instance, chosen to do a project like this, rather than fiddling about with Democratic party electoral politics, his credibility and his contact info and his automatic ability to create visibility for a project would have made it about 400% more likely to succeed--and a lot faster to realize, too. And that's just one idea. There's probably a dozen things that have needed to be done on the Left for 30 years, that he could have set in motion.

He could have given "us" tools that would make our work, work.

Now sure, the Establishment probably would have stopped him from doing that, too.

But such a smart and experienced politician should have seen this outcome a long time ago, and prepared people to step in and lead in his place when he was taken down--people who had already established visibility as part of his campaign. In fact, if it were me, a big part of the campaign would be MAKING those people visible, at least regionally. The campaign would also reveal to you the work that most needs to be done, and the places where the establishment is most vulnerable (Bernie's campaign revealed the media as one of the places work most needed to be done). So you pick one or two places to work, and you establish your next generation of leaders using your campaign to introduce them to the people.

Then, when you get taken down, that's OK; you knew it was coming, and as long as your surrogates are OK, and their reputations secure, you're still golden. In fact, if the Clintons required you to destroy your own reputation with your base, you could stage an event where you yourself fall from grace and the surrogates make a principled stand against you, thus reinforcing their own visibility and reputation. And they go on, and carry on the work.

So, I'm a little mad that apparently none of that was even considered and no plans really made....

And it's the most powerful tool an abuser can use against their victim. Any of us who've tied ourselves to the "democratic" party have fallen into its trap whether we know it or not, and that includes Bernie, now. (The right wingers are in similar trouble, but that's just the flip side of the same dirty old coin.)

Intermittent reinforcement is the tactic by which an abuser gains control of their victim. By at first delivering on whatever promise was made in the beginning of the relationship, then intermittently denying that promise throughought the remaining days, the victim becomes addicted to the pursuit of the promise. Like a rat caught in a maze, forever trying to get that delicious magical pellet.

A great video by a fantastic lady explains this perfectly, much better then I ever could(don't know if this will show up or not):
[video:Http://M_lakRMlA7Q width:480 height:270]

Well, imploring me to continue voting for these abusive assholes is just the same as telling me to stay married to a man who would treat me the same way. But I'm not having it any longer. I truly believe it's incumbent upon all of us, if we ever hope to reclaim our power, to recognize abuse wherever we see it, and to refuse to give it our consent or approval. This should apply to every relationship -- from our president all the way down to our personal relationships -- full stop from today and forever.

A vote is consent. It's a message that we're willing to stay trapped in their game. I don't know what they did to Bernie to get him trapped in this absurdity, but it doesn't really matter anymore in the larger scheme of things. What matters is that we start calling it when we see it, and proceed accordingly.

Edit: link to video, cuz I can't figure out how to embed.
http://youtu.be/M_lakRMIA7Q

Here's the link to a very interesting piece published yesterday in the Chicago Tribune:

Bernie Sanders, who launched career on protest votes, dismisses Johnson, Stein as protest votes

But it's one thing for an independent to support a major-party candidate out of pragmatism; it's another to label a ballot cast for a fellow non-major party candidate a "protest vote."

And it's one a previous version of Bernie Sanders probably would have disagreed with.

Sanders actually rose politically thanks to what some would call protest votes. He ran four times in the 1970s for U.S. Senate and governor as a Liberty Union Party candidate, taking 2 percent, then 1 percent, then 4 percent, then 6 percent. He eventually parlayed that into a successful independent bid for mayor of Burlington, Vt., in 1981.

By 1988, Sanders endorsed Jesse Jackson for president when Jackson was running as a Democrat. This, at the time, was seen as a pragmatic move for the socialist mayor. But it came with a catch: He really wanted Jackson to run as a third-partier or independent.

"My own preference would have been, and I would have rather have seen, Jesse Jackson run independently, third-party, outside of the Democratic Party," Sanders said at the time.

Sanders also said in the same news conference that the two major parties would never create the kind of real change that was needed.

"Essentially, it's my view that the leadership of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are tied to big-money interests and that neither of these parties will ever represent the people in this country that are demanding the real changes that have to take place," he said.

Also, this interesting little tidbit from the Observer:

An ardent supporter of Mr. Jackson’s presidential bid was Bernie Sanders—then mayor of Burlington, Vermont. During a Democratic caucus, Mr. Sanders gave a speech in support of Mr. Jackson while Democrats in the room turned their backs—and, as he walked off stage, a woman slapped him across the face.

Ouch! Seems like challenging Party orthodoxy has always been a bit dicey. At any rate, note what 1988 Bernie said about the Democratic Party twenty-eight years ago:

"Essentially, it's my view that the leadership of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are tied to big-money interests and that neither of these parties will ever represent the people in this country that are demanding the real changes that have to take place."

However, in his heartfelt endorsement speech of July 12, New Bernie stated in no uncertain terms that Hillary Clinton will represent the Americans who are demanding real change:

Too many people in America are still being left out, left behind and ignored. In the richest country in the history of the world there is too much poverty, and too much despair.

This election is about the single mom I saw in Nevada who, with tears in her eyes, told me that she was scared to death about the future because she and her young daughter were not making it on the $10.45 cents an hour she was earning. This election is about that woman, and the millions of other workers in this country who are falling further and further behind as they try to survive on totally inadequate wages.

Hillary Clinton understands that we must fix an economy in America that is rigged and that sends almost all new wealth and income to the top one percent. Hillary Clinton understands that if someone in America works 40 hours a week, that person should not be living in poverty. She believes that we should raise the minimum wage to a living wage. And she wants to create millions of new jobs by rebuilding our crumbling infrastructure. – our roads, bridges, water systems and wastewater plants.

[snip]

It is no secret that Hillary Clinton and I disagree on a number of issues. That’s what this campaign has been about. That’s what democracy is about. But I am happy to tell you that at the Democratic Platform Committee which ended Sunday night in Orlando, there was a significant coming together between the two campaigns and we produced, by far, the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party. Our job now is to see that platform implemented by a Democratic Senate, a Democratic House and a Hillary Clinton presidency – and I am going to do everything I can to make that happen.

I have known Hillary Clinton for 25 years. I remember her as a great first lady who broke precedent in terms of the role that a first lady was supposed to play as she helped lead the fight for universal health care. I served with her in the United States Senate and know her as a fierce advocate for the rights of children.

Hillary Clinton will make an outstanding president and I am proud to stand with her here today.

Questions for New Bernie:

• Why was 1988 Bernie wrong regarding his take on the Democratic Party?
• Why should we ignore a thirty-plus year track record of Hillary Walmart Clinton consistently siding with the economically powerful to the extreme detriment of people of average and below average means, and accept your happy talk spin that Hillary "gets" why so many are losing ground economically, and is committed to doing something to reverse that trend?
• How do you square your characterization of Hillary as a "fierce advocate for the rights of children" with her support for sending children who are political refugees back to countries like Honduras to face the tender mercies of right-wing thugs whose coup she helped engineer, or the IDF's slaughter and brutalization of thousands of helpless Palestinian children in the West Bank and Gaza, or the sanctions regime implemented by her husband that led directly to the deaths of three quarters of a million completely innocent children in Iraq?
• Why should we pay the least bit of attention to "the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party", when platform promises have time and again been cynically broken and ignored once the campaign dust has settled?

To quote a memorable line from Frank Zappa: "Questions, questions, questions flooding into the mind of the concerned young person today." Too bad I'm no longer young. If I was, I might be more inclined to believe New Bernie's bullshit.

I decide on who I vote for based on my personal interests and who best represents them along with what I feel is best for this country and the entire world...

When Bernie decided to run I honestly felt he was the best candidate to represent my interests in a long time... I supported him fully, and voted for him in the primary...

Neither Trump nor Hillary even remotely represent any of my interests and sadly I think they are equally detrimental to this country. I cannot vote for either of them in good conscience...

At this point given my concerns about the environment, income inequality, the military industrial complex, the finance industry, the excessive corporate voice in government, and other issues Jill Stein will be getting my vote...

I realize it is an impossibility for her to win, and that is fine because I cannot sanction the candidacy of either Trump or Clinton with my vote... It is what it is have a nice day!

IMHO while I understand Bernie wanting to run as a democrat, and the promise made not to run as an independent... However, at the 1st sign of impropriety in the primary by either the DNC or the HRC Campaign a stern warning should have been issued that that agreement could become null and void... At the second instance of election fraud Bernie should have gone ahead with getting on the ballot as an independent in all states...

It was obvious that the deck was stacked and he should have left the card table rather than continue playing in the crooked game...

As he said if he loses don't listen to him...
And I'm not...

Bernie did indeed screw up by not having an escape clause built into his strategy. You've pinpointed the error:

IMHO while I understand Bernie wanting to run as a democrat, and the promise made not to run as an independent... However, at the 1st sign of impropriety in the primary by either the DNC or the HRC Campaign a stern warning should have been issued that that agreement could become null and void... At the second instance of election fraud Bernie should have gone ahead with getting on the ballot as an independent in all states...

Knowing the Clintons - and surely he does - this option should have been stated from the beginning and repeated as necessary. Why he didn't do it simply leaves me scratching my head...

I don't think Bernie sold us out and I don't think he/his family were physically threatened. I do think his Senate position was threatened. I just refuse to watch any vids or read any statements where he's stumping for HRC. I think he is sincerely scared shitless at the thought of Trump getting elected. I also think he is doing what he sees as the best out of a bunch of shitty choices to try to make some version of tuition-free college, universal healthcare, 15/hr, etc., happen. In his opinion that is work with the Dems. Don't think for a minute he doesn't know exactly what they are. He's been in amongst them all these years. Still, he's going to try to negotiate the best deals he can in the Senate.

Many of us, myself included, would have *loved* for him to join the Greens or run indie. But Bernie doesn't think going that route is going to get anything accomplished in the short term. We are absolutely free to disagree with him on this, of course. I have had my moments of feeling betrayed, but like another poster said, it doesn't make any sense in view of his 30 years of integrity for him to be a sellout overnight.

I never expected him to run for President in the first place. I thought he was just flapping his lips in hope someone else would run to HRC's left. My chin hit the floor when he announced. I never expected him to win and I don't think Bernie expected to do as well as he did. I think Bernie planned to run to get the issues out there, then support HRC while trying to push her left all along. The fact that his campaign got a yuge response was something he didn't know how to handle and handling it the same way he did when he was expecting to only get 3% of the national vote has bit his cred in the ass. I like Bernie and hope he comes out of this with some loyalty from us left. I fully expect him to push legislation good for people in the Senate, and I hope we will be there supporting him by calling our respective Senators to get on board with him.

I don't think that Bernie believes that he "owns" his supporters. I do think that the DNC aka Clinton campaign believes it, however. They never did understand what makes us tick.