Why Do You Believe that Bernie Sanders Imploring You to "Elect FSC Because The Donald Is Dangerous" Means He Owns You?
This started out as a response to this, and it's a great comment to me, in that Feathersprite sort of sums up the whole reaction to Bernie Sanders now stumping for Hillary Clinton in one fabulously pithy little sentence...
Bernie, just because you gave birth to us doesn't mean that you own us.
But as usual with me, the reply got king-sized, so I decided to make it a post to flesh it out and make it more than a simple reply to one person (and I'm a half-hour late for something else now, because I just kept typing, lol! So if anyone turns out to have been interested in this thing I'll be back later to take a stab at some follow up...)
That sums up so much of what I've seen lately, folk railing against Sanders because he fucked us over and sold us out. But I continue to not get the anger at him on that, because the very notion seems to give him power over "us" that to me, he's not believably trying to assert here. Or if he is, he's really bad at it anyway, so why would I care so much that I get sputtering angry about it? Mind you, I am damned mad about the whole thing, having ponied up a couple hundred bucks for the guy that I didn't really have to spend, but you pays your money and you takes your chances (and maybe hope they salvage that lawsuit against the DNC, but I digress).
Maybe it would really, really help some of us that are still grieving and/or so pissed off about "What Bernie Did" to try to find a different way to think about this, based on possibility or probability. To me, that means understanding first that, demonstrably, in source after legitimate source, the man was a pillar of integrity for over 30 years while in governance. Now, no matter what you think of our politics or our politicians, that's gotta be a world record in the United States government, in the post-Reagan era. But you might also consider looking at this from purely a "human" level. If Bernie Sanders was a straight shooter for that long, he did not get that way by selling out along the way. And therefore, as a straight shooter for that long, he didn't lose it overnight. He couldn't have. How could he retrain his mind to believe it and convey it with as much conviction as what he has really believed all these years, when the things he has to retrain his mind to believe and support means he has to support every bit of the type of malfeasance and corruption that he's railed against for half a lifetime, that we see on this level today, and do so believably?
The answer is, he can't. He's not. And he won't. I would (and did before) submit to you regularly that to me, the man SO doesn't know how to sell out, he had to be literally beaten into it, but YMMV on that. Whatever. Just try to think of it now as "Sanders is going through the motions. Tapping out the little tap dance. Doing what he's been compelled to do, to help continue propping up this industrial-sized charade."
Because, let's face it: they need all the help they can get on that.
And I'm damned happy to see that at least here, nobody's buying it. He's not actually selling any of his hard-core supporters on any of it. He sure as hell isn't selling me, I can tell you that. It'll be a cold day in hell before I vote for that bitch Her Heinous. While I don't wish disease or ill health on anyone, it wouldn't make me sad if she lost her motor control again and never got it back.
So how does any of this generate the idea that "Bernie thinks he owns me"? I submit to you that he does not and he never will. I submit to you that Bernie just wants to own Bernie again. I think in the end, that's what he actually gave up for all of us. So maybe we should be thanking him? He showed all of us what the fuck was going on behind the curtain, lately. Clearly. And he's going to pay for that until the day he dies.
And yet....and yet....some of us want to go back to believing "Oh, they couldn't be that bad, to do such awful things to him or us!". Yes. They can. And they will. And now we all know that a half-a-lifetime of brick-wall-sized human male with demonstrably strong integrity couldn't stop them, either.
How hard is it to keep thinking "outside the box"? We do that so well here, on so many other subjects, but I swear to somebody else's God that we keep forgetting how to do that when our feelings are really, sincerely hurt. Mine were! I supported Bernie from Day One. I've had more than one good, deep, sobbing cry-fest about it, myself. But what I see now, begging us, is someone who doesn't believe a goddamn word that comes out of his own mouth on this stuff, and once this election is over, so is he.
And that, my friends, is not a fighter for you who turned on you. It's a fighter for you that had the fight taken out of him.
Comments
I just wrote a similar comment, your essay is better.
Let post-Convention Bernie do what he must. I am not following him. I went for the message, not the man. When he parted with his message, I parted with him. The message is the momentum now. And I still carry that.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Right: It's the policies, not the person. He told Clinton she'd
have to convince voters herself. She hasn't. And he can't do that for her, presenting his long-held positions as her embraced-by-necessity beliefs, because her record shows she can't be trusted on anything she says publicly. [We still don't know what she says behind closed doors.]
Love ya, Bernie. Long have, always will, but I'm not following you across the River Styx to Hellery. Cussed independence is a characteristic shared by a whole lot of people who supported you and still support what you've championed most of your life and Clinton conspicuously has not. And in your heart and head, you get that.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
(Attaching my comment here,
(Attaching my comment here, however far down the thread it may go, rather than so much replying to riverlover's comment, which I recced.)
Bernie certainly doesn't expect his informed and intelligent supporters to vote for evil just because he's had to say that.
If anyone here outraged at Bernie's being unable to overcome a powerful and global group of enemies intent on taking over the world by his playing fair was in a group of family/friends being held hostage in some isolated root-cellar by a pathological gang with no hope of outside help, would you really be best advised to spit defiance and tell them that you were, perhaps, organizing an effort to try a carefully planned and barely possibly escape by digging your way out underground, brandishing one of the spoons you had to do it, so fuck them? Or would you follow the advice of kidnap experts and be superficially cooperative so that people don't get prevented from escape/killed immediately? Brains and strategy are more important than counterproductive/suicidal Rambo-movie-type bravado under certain circumstances. Especially in a President, I may add.
Edited to add a missed question mark.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Well, I hope the spoons are busily digging.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm with you at least 1000 percent
Anyone who thinks he's stumping willing need only look at his face. In the Morning Joe video posted elsewhere, we do not see the light up the room Bernie smile until Mika thanks him at the very end. We've read that he's been threatened that he's be stripped of any and all leadership with the Dems if he did not dance for Hillary. All evidence points to him doing this under duress.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Maybe some folks missed this reporting
I'm not finding the article I saw originally:
Bernie Sanders threatened with loss of Senate committee position if he didn’t endorse Hillary
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
no doubt about it
Bernie is a good man doing what he has to do to maintain his power in the Senate. Power that he uses to benefit the common good.
It's not his fault that Hillary & crew stole the primary election. The karmic consequences of that are on her.
Sad to see the sheeple at TOP bemoaning how she should be ahead 20 points but for the biased media, in denial of the fact that her showing is poor because she is a weak candidate.
Hey now, that's really unfair! How dare they?
I think Amy Schumer is hilarious.
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I've noticed a few things the
I've noticed a few things the Clintons wouldn't like being rapidly removed from public view to be replaced with some variety of 'page not found' - and Obama has handed control of Domain Names off to 'public/private' hands, despite the internet having been first developed at public expense and therefore public property and belonging to the American public, not to whoever happens to be in public office at the time.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Big deal. Besides, it doesn't seem Bernie had to be threatened.
What he is doing is consistent with the position he's taken since at least 2000, when Nader ran against Gore.
http://caucus99percent.com/comment/176027#comment-176027
What is worse to believe about Bernie, that he is a sincere "lesser of two evils" guy or that, at age 75, losing his personal ranking position is more important to him than the country and his supporters? He would still be a US Senator and even still sit on the committee. Being the most powerful person in the minority on a committee for another few years is that big a deal?
I can certainly believe he was threatened with the loss. If so, shame on all those involved. However, it's far from a justification for doing something he thinks is less than the best possible for the country, including all the people who knocked themselves out trying to help him win the primary.
That ranking position allows him to get the things done that he
has done over the last--at least a decade now.
"Because he said he'd never run as a spoiler" isn't really relevant to whether or not he was threatened with anything. There was plenty beyond that to be threatened about.
Bernie really, really does not want Trump to be President
And neither do I. Climate change is a hoax? No, sorry, can't do that. Pretending to have all the answers that nobody else in government has is really dangerous, idiotic bullshit. I think Bernie fears the guilt he would feel for waking us up to the corruption and seeing the corporatocracy for what it is and therefore making Trump President by default. But Bernie shouldn't feel guilty. People have been calling bullshit on Hillary lies for a long time and there has been a slowly growing awareness, completely independent of Bernie, that includes Occupy and BLM and the reaction to the Wall Street heist of 2007-2008 and the bullshit wars for profit and every other pestilent action of profit over people that we see in our sick country. I live in California and if, as seems likely, polls near election day show Trump losing badly here, I will vote for Jill. That would be a lot tougher for me if I lived in a swing state. We still have 1 1/2 months for the Country to make the election about Jill vs Gary Johnson.
Beware the bullshit factories.
The difference between "Climate change is a hoax"
and "Climate change is real, but let's keep on drilling and fracking" is functionally insignificant. Either way we are on the fast track for mass extinctions.
Jill Stein is the only candidate who is willing to address this looming catastrophe unequivocally. Voting for Hillary as the LOTE with the hope of swaying her to change her stripes once she's elected is a fool's errand. You would have better luck getting Trump to renounce his fortune and enter an ashram.
“ …and when we destroy nature, we diminish our capacity to sense the divine,and understand who God is, and what our own potential is and duties are as human beings.- RFK jr. 8/26/2024
I think there is a huge difference
between acknowledging science and saying science is bullshit. Makes me think that Trump is more in bed with fossil fuels than Hillary.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Nope. He's just less deceitful.
http://www.motherjones.com/environment/2014/09/hillary-clinton-fracking-...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Then Trump is truthful and dumb
Or totally disconnected from reality to not acknowledge the reality of climate change. Jill is the only one who really understands that in a few years, if we're beyond the tipping point, nothing else would have mattered this election but climate change. I think Trump offers the slimmest odds of any candidate that we will act properly and in time before the climate tipping point is reached. If Jill can't be President, I would have more faith in Gary Johnson, I think, to do the right thing, but if Gary Johnson can't be President either, Trump has done absolutely nothing prior to this election to show he cares for causes other than birtherism, etc.
Beware the bullshit factories.
It would behoove you to remember, first of all,
that Donald Trump didn't invent Birtherism. Hillary Clinton did.
And it would probably also behoove you to remember that nobody here has any idea WHY Trump is running at all. For all we know, it was Bill Clinton's insistence that he do. And if he's been a ringer for Hillary all this time, the shit that falls out of his mouth makes all kinds of sense.
funny how media/'bots don't understand surrogates
the surrogates get talking points. Everybody knows that! So when "Clinton supporters" (not Hillary, oh no, not her!) suggested Obama was ineligible due to being born in Kenya it was only some fringers. Plausible deniability.
She owns that shit herself
and she will always own it. Whether she actually said those words or not. Because yes, that's what surrogates are for. They're surrogates for her campaign? They came from her campaign. She owns it.
I am not disagreeing with you at all, I know you were snarking. I just don't think she has any deniability about it at this point.
The bigger point, for the purpose of the commenter above us there, is that Donald Trump didn't invent it. And if he's a campaign strategy for his friend Hillary, it's been genius, for the people--including smart people here--getting all wound up because they think he's so evil. It's so much crap.
Not to mention that the media
Not to mention that the media gets talking points as well. And in at least some cases gets an OK from Hillary's campaign before printing stories.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
A huge difference, even if you keep fracking, etc.?
In my opinion, it's worse to believe in/acknowledge global warming and sell out anyway. If you acknowledge science, then take urgent steps, cool. Otherwise, the life as we know it on this planet will die out just as fast, whether someone acknowledges science or not. The Clintons love to have things every which way. This is but another example.
Hey! I'm cool. I'm intelligent. I acknowledge science! No one can put me in a basket of deplorables. Now, drill, baby, drill! And donate while you drill.
Exactly.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Trump IS the basket of
Trump IS the basket of deplorables...period!! That said, my choice will never be Hillary as I still have some faith (blind, maybe ignorant faith) in the separation of powers in the federal system. When Trump can't even garner support from the party faithfuls, I feel assured that if he was elected, he could accomplish nothing, could screw nothing up worse than GWB, and his merry gang of war profiteering Oil Men. Trump and Clinton are the same level of embarrassment to our country that Bush was...another village idiot. We deserve what we get for allowing the choice between Hillary and the Donald to ever come to fruition. America will never be "Great" again as long as the electorate is willing to be blindly led by the MSM. We can't blame Bernie; maybe be disappointed, and saddened by the results of the primary, and his direction following the convention, but... as part of the American electorate, we have to point our fingers at ourselves before we pillory Sanders.
We've been going down the wrong road a LONG time,
longer than most people realize, longer than some (most?) people here have been alive. I suspect the first wrong turn came back in the 1940s, when President Truman decided that security trumped freedom, renamed the War Department the "Department of Defense" (he couldn't have read 1984, it hadn't even been published yet), mutated the wartime OSS into the full-time CIA, and generally encouraged a level of paranoia that very quickly got out of hand.
Or perhaps it goes back to Woodrow Wilson and his precious Espionage Act and his imposition of Jim Crow at the Federal level. (Once you can dehumanize and disenfranchise one group, you can do it to any group.)
We may be past the point of no return, and there may be no way out except forward through a wilderness of blood and death and horror. I hope not - but history is not encouraging.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
I agree, Luna
about Bernie's character and what likely happened to him. It seems the simplest explanation.
However, the idea that we don't need to be mad at Bernie b/c he doesn't own us, which basically comes out of the Not Me, Us tradition (we all got our own minds, make our own decisions, he's not the boss) has its good sides and its less-than-accurate sides.
On the one hand, yeah, it's totally right to remember that he's not our Daddy, that we are each proud individuals who have our own minds and make our own choices, and to move forward from there. So why bother being mad at Bernie? A little sad he's not coming with us, maybe--but the right way to focus is forward.
On the other, this idea tends to smooth over certain differences between Bernie and "us." I mean, if "me" is Bernie Sanders, and "us" is, well, us, "me" is on a very different level than "us." Like, he's a Senator, and I'm not, so he has access to media in a way that I don't, even when the media are sycophantically in the bag for his opponent. He was a Senator running for President, which made people take him more seriously than they're gonna take me, right out of the gate, which means that he has a chance of getting people to fund him and his projects that's not in the same galaxy as my ability to get fundraising for my projects.
So when Sanders removes himself from any helpful form of political activity, or is removed from the field by malign forces, it's not helpful to say "Well, so what? It's not like he's our Daddy. We can do this ourselves."
Well, yeah, I guess I can do it myself, "it" in my case being a cooperative media network that links indie media together, providing for fundraising and defense.
But if Bernie Sanders had, for instance, chosen to do a project like this, rather than fiddling about with Democratic party electoral politics, his credibility and his contact info and his automatic ability to create visibility for a project would have made it about 400% more likely to succeed--and a lot faster to realize, too. And that's just one idea. There's probably a dozen things that have needed to be done on the Left for 30 years, that he could have set in motion.
He could have given "us" tools that would make our work, work.
Now sure, the Establishment probably would have stopped him from doing that, too.
But such a smart and experienced politician should have seen this outcome a long time ago, and prepared people to step in and lead in his place when he was taken down--people who had already established visibility as part of his campaign. In fact, if it were me, a big part of the campaign would be MAKING those people visible, at least regionally. The campaign would also reveal to you the work that most needs to be done, and the places where the establishment is most vulnerable (Bernie's campaign revealed the media as one of the places work most needed to be done). So you pick one or two places to work, and you establish your next generation of leaders using your campaign to introduce them to the people.
Then, when you get taken down, that's OK; you knew it was coming, and as long as your surrogates are OK, and their reputations secure, you're still golden. In fact, if the Clintons required you to destroy your own reputation with your base, you could stage an event where you yourself fall from grace and the surrogates make a principled stand against you, thus reinforcing their own visibility and reputation. And they go on, and carry on the work.
So, I'm a little mad that apparently none of that was even considered and no plans really made....
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I think he's removed himself (if he has) until the election
They have demanded certain behavior while they are coronating Hillary. When that is done (should that come to pass), the debt they demanded of him will have been paid.
I think he worked to maintain his status in the Senate so he can pick back up where he set things down when he got pummeled.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
I sure hope you're right about this
My cynical self says he'll never be able to pay them back. The bar will always move higher. Other than that, agreement all around...
Bernie Is Not God
This:
Nothing about this campaign has been, is or will be predictable. At this point God herownself may be floating around thinking WTF?
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Neither am I. It wasn't that hard to see coming.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
God herownself
God herownself is probably thinking "what fools these mortals be".
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Recced, but - recall that
Recced, but - recall that Bernie has always said that the American people have to do this from the bottom up, exerting political pressure along with running for office/working to elect progressives. And that Occupy was leaderless, so that endless efforts to remove 'leaders' to have the movement fall apart failed, while the last I heard (a while back now) Occupy was still doing good for the vulnerable in various ways. TPTB seem to be trying to leave no option but guerrilla warfare for the people - something that signally failed in Vietnam and elsewhere since, as the more desperate people are made, the harder they typically fight even a monstrous enemy invading and taking over their countries. It may yet come to this... but they cannot watch/track all of the people all of the time and expect to have updated information presented on everyone all at once, constantly. We outnumber them easily, 99 to 1.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Bernie's Campaign folks
knew about the election and registration fraud.
And did nothing.
Something wicked came his way. Of course. I don't hate him for it but I no longer care to listen to him talk about "voting" for anyone. He should be screaming about the election fraud and deleted registrations.
The mere fact that Bernie's Campaign is telling anyone to VOTE is, to me, just a kick to the chin of all of us who supported him and got rat fucked and had our registrations white washed.
Yeah tell me who to vote for. Me, who had their fucking voice gagged.
Bernie knows this election is a farce. He's just continuing it.
We have work to do Bernie. Get out of the way.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
We don't know he did nothing - we have no idea what he did
All we know is what's been made public. And we can guess that what he did try did not succeed, but we have no details. I'm waiting for the book (if I survive that long).
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
asdf
I love ya, DJ. I do. But if you agree that
Why would you assume that he could actually do this and get away with it:
How can you further assume, if
that even if he DID scream about it, that everybody would hear him?
Assuming he's doing all this under duress, who is going to allow him to scream at the world about that fraud, without censoring, if
What if he tried, and nobody got a chance to hear about it before
and then he got Wellstoned? Or someone in his family "had an unfortunate accident"?
I just don't see how you square those two things. Either he's a craven sellout or he was threatened. How can you believe both?
And don't even get me started about "Bernie's Campaign Folks". I count at least two who obviously (in hindsight) weren't there just because they loved him and believed in him and believed in his vision for America. But, that's for another day...
In conclusion, I swear to FSM I am sending you hugs, DJ. I was just as angry and I was able to reckon with it. And it pains me to see this venom about this guy--who isn't convincing you at all anyway--making you so blindingly angry. I dunno, maybe believing the very absolute worst helps me cope and it's just that you and I cope differently?
All I know is that I just can't wrap my head around "Bernie suddenly sold us out" after 35 years of Solid Progressive Everything. I cannot square that in my head. At all.
I don't get where I'm now "blindinlgy angry" in any of that :)
I'm disappointed yes but blindingly angry? I don't think I have any venom either.
But this is what does piss me off - What I can square away in my head is that this country is so damn corrupt now that nobody can do shit about anything. And I am super pissed off that people still pretend there is even such a thing as elections, democracy and justice in this country.
And here's another quote: "When good man do nothing." But we all know is that we may never know what or who got to him. I don't think he "sold out" I think he or his family was threatened.
Sorry I wasn't hear to discuss... yesterday I went up to the bible belt area of the cultist relatives and buried my grandmother and held my head up.
"Love One Another" ~ George Harrison
Hate The Game Not The Player
Bernie is 74 years old. Bernie has been emerged in the Washington Consensus his entire life and is doing the best he can and doing what he thinks best. He's one man and he is not the entire revolution. He probably genuinely believes that the Democratic party can still be reformed and he can do more from the inside.
You play your cards the best you can and you take your chances. Bernie realized he wasn't gonna deliver a knockout blow to the New/DLC Dems at the convention. He gave them a hell of a run for their money. Now he's setting himself up to be an inside player after the election.
Would Jill and the Green Party be better off if Bernie had joined the Green ticket? Maybe. Maybe not. Bernie has been a social justice warrior fighting from inside the system his entire life. It's not only what he does, it's who he is.
This election is a disaster no matter which party steals the most votes. We will need Bernie, Elizabeth Warren and the weak kneed Black Congressional Caucus regardless of the results of this election.
We need to continue supporting organizations that are fighting from outside the two party system. Bernie advanced the Occupy Narrative and moved the Overton Window further than anyone since FDR or MLK. Bernie will keep doing what Bernie does best and we should all keep doing whatever it is we can do to keep pushing him.
Keep on trucking Bernie, you old fart.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
Warren and the CBC are, at this point,
just moral alibis for Clinton and her machine. Those are the last people you should turn to for help, honestly. Their job is to milk their progressive reputations, and their moral capital, to the nth degree while demonstrating loyalty to Hillary, the party, and the system as much as possible.
They are the ringers:
[video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9zkQcLi4Yo]
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Okay, Bernie Pulled A Kucinich. Now What?
Whether Trump wins or Hillary wins life goes on. Bernie, Liz and the Black Congressional Caucus will still be the only roadblock we have. And my opinion of the BCC is not favorable:
http://caucus99percent.com/comment/reply/7398/166403
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
It's called Intermittent Reinforcement
And it's the most powerful tool an abuser can use against their victim. Any of us who've tied ourselves to the "democratic" party have fallen into its trap whether we know it or not, and that includes Bernie, now. (The right wingers are in similar trouble, but that's just the flip side of the same dirty old coin.)
Intermittent reinforcement is the tactic by which an abuser gains control of their victim. By at first delivering on whatever promise was made in the beginning of the relationship, then intermittently denying that promise throughought the remaining days, the victim becomes addicted to the pursuit of the promise. Like a rat caught in a maze, forever trying to get that delicious magical pellet.
A great video by a fantastic lady explains this perfectly, much better then I ever could(don't know if this will show up or not):
[video:Http://M_lakRMlA7Q width:480 height:270]
Well, imploring me to continue voting for these abusive assholes is just the same as telling me to stay married to a man who would treat me the same way. But I'm not having it any longer. I truly believe it's incumbent upon all of us, if we ever hope to reclaim our power, to recognize abuse wherever we see it, and to refuse to give it our consent or approval. This should apply to every relationship -- from our president all the way down to our personal relationships -- full stop from today and forever.
A vote is consent. It's a message that we're willing to stay trapped in their game. I don't know what they did to Bernie to get him trapped in this absurdity, but it doesn't really matter anymore in the larger scheme of things. What matters is that we start calling it when we see it, and proceed accordingly.
Edit: link to video, cuz I can't figure out how to embed.
http://youtu.be/M_lakRMIA7Q
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
Here's the embed
There are two ways to embed here (it's easier than at TOP). One way is to paste the URL from the YouTube page down below the comment dialogue box where it says Video URL... (it's present both for creating an essay and also for adding a comment or reply).
The other way is to click Share under the video on the YouTube page, and then click the icon to embed, and copy that line and paste it into the essay or comment.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Thanks so much, MsGrin!
I'll try those things you described next time around.
Teal's videos are always helpful to me, but this one topped them all. We are living in an abusive relationship regardless of which side of the aisle we sit on. The sooner we identify that, and refuse to go along with it, the sooner society will rise up to its proper place. Just my humble opinion.
This essay, and Amanda's before, and so many others, illustrate this fact so clearly.
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
redacted /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
A great video by a fantastic lady explains this perfectly
There were problems with running a campaign of Joy while committing a genocide? Who could have guessed?
Harris is unburdened of speaking going forward.
And thank you, snoopydog!
((Hugs))
Change is the end result of all true learning. ~ Leo Buscaglia
1988 Bernie vs. New Bernie
Here's the link to a very interesting piece published yesterday in the Chicago Tribune:
Bernie Sanders, who launched career on protest votes, dismisses Johnson, Stein as protest votes
Also, this interesting little tidbit from the Observer:
Ouch! Seems like challenging Party orthodoxy has always been a bit dicey. At any rate, note what 1988 Bernie said about the Democratic Party twenty-eight years ago:
"Essentially, it's my view that the leadership of the Democratic Party and the Republican Party are tied to big-money interests and that neither of these parties will ever represent the people in this country that are demanding the real changes that have to take place."
However, in his heartfelt endorsement speech of July 12, New Bernie stated in no uncertain terms that Hillary Clinton will represent the Americans who are demanding real change:
Questions for New Bernie:
To quote a memorable line from Frank Zappa: "Questions, questions, questions flooding into the mind of the concerned young person today." Too bad I'm no longer young. If I was, I might be more inclined to believe New Bernie's bullshit.
inactive account
Whatever his answer is today, it will likely change 11/9
I believe he only has to toe the line and/or stay silent that long.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Perhaps, but the Clintons are
Perhaps, but the Clintons are notoriously vindictive and it seems that those they've put on their 'enemies' list often suffer 'accidents' or commit suicide by multiple gunshots or by shooting themselves in the back of the head or some such nonsense.
I wouldn't bet on the threat necessarily waning until they do/their donors power over government is broken.
Edited after realizing that I'd repeated a word during sentence reconstruction.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
Please note that Bernie kept
Please note that Bernie kept saying that she understood what needed to be done. He knows that she won't actually do it unless forced and that his supporters and others also know this. What was the first thing you thought upon seeing/hearing that? That of course she'd want to do the opposite in draining the people and country for the biggest donors she has or will have? That's the alert of a man whose family is being held with a (possibly metaphorical) gun to their heads and must say obvious nonsense or else and speaks in code. It's the Clinton/corporate mafia way, isn't it?
Edit: since Hillary's decades of corruption sprang to mind immediately (for us all), also then recall Bernie's life-time of principled defense of the vulnerable and the way he uses different strategies to achieve what he can for those, so that if one doesn't work, trying another. Character and record matter on both sides when assessing what someone is likely to do - and why.
Psychopathy is not a political position, whether labeled 'conservatism', 'centrism' or 'left'.
A tin labeled 'coffee' may be a can of worms or pathology identified by a lack of empathy/willingness to harm others to achieve personal desires.
By the 1990s, he had apparently changed.
He campaigned for Bill Clinton, and, in 2000, for Al Gore, condemning Nader. He's said since at least 2011 that he would never run as "a spoiler."
http://caucus99percent.com/comment/176647#comment-176647
What he is doing now is totally consistent with all the above.
When Bernie quit - I don't care why,
he gave up the moral high ground. With that, he also loses the right to tell anyone else what they "ought" to do.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
You reserve the right to not listen to him!
Nobody can ever take that ability away from us. Amirite? So why isn't that good enough for the short term? Why all this blind hate?
Do you really think that Bernie Sanders is willingly campaigning for Her Heinous? Do you believe his family couldn't have possibly been threatened if he didn't try? Or do you think Donald Trump is simply that unspeakably evil and it just flat-out don't matter? Whether you do or don't, all I am saying is at this point, the whole thing about "Bernie" is out of our hands. So....just dismiss him outright when our totally honorable Corporate Newscast rubs him and his "Looky, I support FSC because Trump BAD" salt in our wounds. Because that's the official Campaign Point for Team Heinous. It's all they got, and so it's off to the fucking compromised press whores for him, or else, to spew it and try to convert us. Even if that's not close, the man has exactly zero "moral high ground" unless people actually cede it to him. I don't care what he says or doesn't say--at this point, I am just not seeing a guy who thinks he has any moral high ground at all, let alone any of his former supporters giving him any. And I sure as hell don't see him convincing any of us. THAT is what the bottom line is for me--nobody's buying it anyway.
With that in mind, why bother wasting the energy hating on him? I guess that's what I don't get. I just don't know how anyone can see the obvious "going through the motions" here and decide that "Well, he just sold out for money and fuck all of us!!", particularly when we were all fucked long before the man declared his candidacy for POTUS. So it feels to me like I should put my anger to better use. I hope we can all do that.
And look, I am well-aware that everybody's mileage may vary. Lest anyone think otherwise, I am in no way sitting over here telling anybody to just "get over it". But if we have no control of the bigger situation that brought us all to this point, we shouldn't be taking it all out on him. Because fuck if he did this all by himself. .
I think it's less to convince us than to demoralize us--
but I may be ascribing too much wisdom to the Clinton campaign there.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
It's--truly--probably both
because Clinton needs both, soon. I think she's bled off a good bit of support over her perceived health issues and us proles must be convinced that Trump is eeeeeeevill, because it's probably the only way for her to get them back..
And you know they relish the demoralizing. Demoralized people are easier to manipulate.
That sounds like a Hillarybot, with all due respect...
Criticizing Hillary = hating Hillary. Now replace Hillary with Bernie.
We all have been faced with hard choices. If the reality about the choice Bernie made demoralizes some people, well, I can't help it if they have a hard time with reality. If some people have less than 6 months left to live, they don't want to know it.
In other words, I can call a spade a spade when it comes to Bernie without hating him or doing it to demoralize someone else - including me.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
If you grant me respect, you will explain to me
exactly what in my comment is a "Hillarybot". Your first couple of sentences do not make complete sense.
Nevermind, I get it now
you think I did this:
Except that's not what I'm doing. I am only asking you to explain exactly why you think the only answer for what Sanders did is to "sell out" and why you think "He did it because Money" and there is absolutely no other explanation.
That's the part I don't get. There can be more than one explanation. Why are you so convinced there cannot be?
I never said he sold out for money. He might have, but
I don't think he would do it for money. I don't know, and I could be wrong. I think if he "sold" out, he sold out to himself - a false flag of some sort. Maybe he was threatened, and maybe they do get to murder anyone they please with impunity. If he was threatened, it would make sense and help to protect against it by saying he was and by whom. If not publicly now, a letter given to Greenwald, Snowden, or someone he thinks can protect it until published should he or X be murdered or die in an accident. A dead man's switch of sorts.
In my opinion and speaking only for me, I think Bernie abruptly quit with no explanation. I don't think he should have, and I think he let all of his supporters down by doing it the way he did. Anyone who thinks Bernie can still influence the vote beyond a handful is badly mistaken in my opinion. He gave up the ability and the right to be a national leader when he did what he did under the circumstances he did. He needs to go back to Vermont and be the quirky little old socialist and regional candidate that he is.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Both Trump and Hillary are awful
and their presidencies will be awful.
You won't want to have to justify you vote a couple years from now.
Why would I ever have to justify my vote?
My vote is my vote. I can throw it away if I want.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I think he meant "in your own conscience"
evidently YMMV....
First Off Bernie Doesn't Own Me or My Vote...
I decide on who I vote for based on my personal interests and who best represents them along with what I feel is best for this country and the entire world...
When Bernie decided to run I honestly felt he was the best candidate to represent my interests in a long time... I supported him fully, and voted for him in the primary...
Neither Trump nor Hillary even remotely represent any of my interests and sadly I think they are equally detrimental to this country. I cannot vote for either of them in good conscience...
At this point given my concerns about the environment, income inequality, the military industrial complex, the finance industry, the excessive corporate voice in government, and other issues Jill Stein will be getting my vote...
I realize it is an impossibility for her to win, and that is fine because I cannot sanction the candidacy of either Trump or Clinton with my vote... It is what it is have a nice day!
IMHO while I understand Bernie wanting to run as a democrat, and the promise made not to run as an independent... However, at the 1st sign of impropriety in the primary by either the DNC or the HRC Campaign a stern warning should have been issued that that agreement could become null and void... At the second instance of election fraud Bernie should have gone ahead with getting on the ballot as an independent in all states...
It was obvious that the deck was stacked and he should have left the card table rather than continue playing in the crooked game...
As he said if he loses don't listen to him...
And I'm not...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
I'm right there with ya, Oldest son of a Sailor
He got my vote, my support and a little cash while he was in. Now that he's not, I'm taking my support to Jill.
I feel like he was threatened in some way. The Clintons are just plain creepy. I can't prove it, but we only speculated about the rigged primaries, until we had the proof. Why Assange didn't dump ALL emails very shortly after wikileaks received them makes me question his motivation, but whatever.
AnyWho, I will forever have a special place in my heart for the old Jewish Socialist Democrat with the messy hair who lit a fire of change. He enabled me to witness and participate in a movement - a first for someone born the year of Woodstock (I missed almost everything!).
As for the people who seem to foam at the mouth when they describe the betrayal they feel from him, I just don't up vote their comments. They are certainly free to feel and post as they choose.
Get outta jail free
Bernie did indeed screw up by not having an escape clause built into his strategy. You've pinpointed the error:
Knowing the Clintons - and surely he does - this option should have been stated from the beginning and repeated as necessary. Why he didn't do it simply leaves me scratching my head...
Bernie Running As An Independent?
This is your advice:
So in how many states would Bernie be on the ballot today? More than Jill Stein?
Hindsight is not always 20/20.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
At the time the primary election had obviously become fraudulent
Bernie could have been on the ballot in every state except Texas...
Which really doesn't matter because it is a solid red state...
Texas has a sore losers law preventing ballot access...
I'm the only person standing between Richard Nixon and the White House."
~John F. Kennedy~
Economic: -9.13, Social: -7.28,
I think he still has a long view.
He could not write or say an escape clause, set a hurdle for the other side, because at the time, that would have been spun as a revolt.
I have no bad feelings about Bernie now, he left the movement, we must continue forward. And it will be a battlefield, we know that now. Bernie fell away as flag-bearer.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
#BernieorBust #StillBernie #NeverHillary #JillNotHill #NoText
"Owns" ?? Wow, there's a loaded word.
#NeverHillary peeps, why would you put someone who doesn't even pretend to have any shame at the helm of the potential turn-key totalitarian state that we have been seeing take form around us since 2001?
http://www.truth-out.org/opinion/item/37613-another-week-closer-to-fascism
My prediction: his first action will be to release the Bundys. And after that we can look forward to seeing our precious public lands given away to the states to sell to the highest bidder -- such as the Koch brothers or China.
That's just a taster. What else has he promised to do that will irrecoverably hurt people he thinks of as "losers" -- empty the Treasury -- shred what's left of our civil liberties?
Look, I'm sorry we have such a rotten choice before us. No option I'd call good. Nobody likes to feel they've been played. Nobody likes to think even that someone else might imagine they've been fooled.
It's also true that electoral politics, as of now, is not going do do much good, it can only minimize immediate harm and buy time. Imperfect world, deeply imperfect choices, and after those, lots of OTHER hard work at the local, state, neighborhood and personal level. That's the reality. We're in a mess. We're all in one lifeboat. You've got one oar. Don't throw it over the side.
Euterpe2
Wait, what?!
Um, "owns" is not a reference to Donald Trump. Donald Trump is really not the point in the essay.
To begin with,
nobody thought he'd catch on. Least of all, him. So despite his "inside track" for as long as he's had it, it probably never even occurred to him to be a necessity. Because he probably couldn't conceive that they could possibly get away with it, even if they tried.
By the time it did occur to him to be a necessity, who was he going to collaborate with over it? The two-faced creeps that no doubt infested the upper echelons of his campaign staff?
All that information came with hindsight, btw. So I'm left with "by the time he realized it, he was already screwed". And that doesn't make him stupid or compromised, it makes him.....probably way too trusting and sporting a bit too much naiveté, which no doubt sealed his fate, no matter what he did to mitigate it by then. That he managed to keep it going as long as he did has a lot to do with all the people supporting him, along with the short-sightedness of Team DNC--who wrote him off until the last minute and then went apeshit bananas and overboard by the time he became a threat to Clinton in California.
I don't think Bernie sold us
I don't think Bernie sold us out and I don't think he/his family were physically threatened. I do think his Senate position was threatened. I just refuse to watch any vids or read any statements where he's stumping for HRC. I think he is sincerely scared shitless at the thought of Trump getting elected. I also think he is doing what he sees as the best out of a bunch of shitty choices to try to make some version of tuition-free college, universal healthcare, 15/hr, etc., happen. In his opinion that is work with the Dems. Don't think for a minute he doesn't know exactly what they are. He's been in amongst them all these years. Still, he's going to try to negotiate the best deals he can in the Senate.
Many of us, myself included, would have *loved* for him to join the Greens or run indie. But Bernie doesn't think going that route is going to get anything accomplished in the short term. We are absolutely free to disagree with him on this, of course. I have had my moments of feeling betrayed, but like another poster said, it doesn't make any sense in view of his 30 years of integrity for him to be a sellout overnight.
I never expected him to run for President in the first place. I thought he was just flapping his lips in hope someone else would run to HRC's left. My chin hit the floor when he announced. I never expected him to win and I don't think Bernie expected to do as well as he did. I think Bernie planned to run to get the issues out there, then support HRC while trying to push her left all along. The fact that his campaign got a yuge response was something he didn't know how to handle and handling it the same way he did when he was expecting to only get 3% of the national vote has bit his cred in the ass. I like Bernie and hope he comes out of this with some loyalty from us left. I fully expect him to push legislation good for people in the Senate, and I hope we will be there supporting him by calling our respective Senators to get on board with him.
With the Clinton Family Mafia, is it any wonder that
Bernie's so-called endorsement of HRC has all the sincerity of a used-car salesman. A deplorable position to be in--but when figuratively OR literally having a gun to his head, unless he desired martyrdom or sainthood, most of us, no matter how principled, would have done the same. How else can you explain Bernie's statement that HRC had to EARN the votes of his supporters--despite what he's been coerced into saying during this fraudulent campaign?
I hold him no ill-will despite my massive disappointment. He may yet live to fight the Progressive battle another day and in other ways.
#StillBernie, #JillnotHill
Pretty much
sums it all up, I guess...
Same here. I hope that's really obvious.
The Revolution now sits with
The Revolution now sits with Jill and the Greens.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
True story!
Late to the party
And I'm sure this has already been said more than once, but:
A- FUCKING - men!
I don't think that Bernie
I don't think that Bernie believes that he "owns" his supporters. I do think that the DNC aka Clinton campaign believes it, however. They never did understand what makes us tick.
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
Exactly.
I don't get the "Bernie sold us out!" horse$h!t, either.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.