Disappointed in Thom Hartmann

So I'm listening to Thom Hartmann yesterday, as I always try to do, and this woman who is a Bernie supporter calls in to talk about supporting Jill Stein going forward. Thom goes off on her about how Jill Stein is a 'professional' and 'vanity' candidate. He then says Stein won't release her tax returns giving the impression that she is just in it for the money. He says voting for Stein is wasting your vote, that Jill has no elected office experience, and then he goes on to quote a few lines from a diary at GOS that talks about reasons why not to vote Green.

This makes me more disappointed than I've ever been with Thom. I have been listening to him since 2004 in the Air America days and I greatly appreciate all I have learned from him and through his platform. His 'Brunch with Bernie' series was where I got to know and love Bernie Sanders and what he stands for. So many times callers would plead for Bernie to run for president over the years but he always politely declined. In 2011, I was so pissed at Obama I wrote a diary at GOS asking for Bernie to primary him. Almost got banned for that. Imagine my excitement when Bernie did finally run! I maxed out in donations. That's how excited.

So here we are now, the deep and wide corruption of the DNC exposed for all to see, (Thanks Bernie!) primary clearly stolen, my money and millions of other supporters' money stolen, Field Marshall Von Rumsfeld along with a host of other prominent neocons and senior Republicans endorsing $hillary, and my progressive guru of the past dozen years apparently succumbing to TrumpFear.

A sad set of circumstances, indeed. I'd like to ask Thom if Nader was a 'vanity' and 'professional' candidate in 2000? Was his vote for Nader back then a wasted vote? Does Nader have any elected office experience? Surely Thom knows that SCROTUS is to blame for Bush being president and that the 90,000 votes for Nader in Florida is far outweighed by the 300,000 votes for Bush by registered Florida Democrats. Enough of the blame shifting and myth making about Nader.

I'd like to think Thom voted for Nader back then for what he stood for, rather than his experience. An apt analogy I learned here: asking me to vote for $hillary is like someone stealing my car and then they ask me for gas money. How can I possibly vote for $hillary? That is why I'm voting Green.

The more Republicans that endorse $hillary, the greater the vacuum on the left. This void needs to be filled by as much as possible by progressive 3rd parties. Whether the candidates have experience or not is beside the point. The progressive platform/movement is the point. Jill has very little chance of actually winning; $hillary is a lock. There has to be a counterbalance to the ever rightward shift of the Dems. A strong showing from the progressive left in 2016 will lay the ground work for 2020, which by then the triangulating neo-liberal neocons shtick will have worn quit thin. It's all about the movement.

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detroitmechworks's picture

Dr. Stein MUST be destroyed, because if the media exposure were anywhere near even what they gave Bernie, she'd mop the floor with Hillary.

Go back about 8 months. Bullshit stories about Bernie. How he's only a "Protest" candidate. He can't win, his supporters are delusional... Etc...

Bernie came far too close, and Hillary knows he would have won without the massive cheating she engaged in. THIS time, there will be no mistakes, or heads will start rolling. Sorry, there will be a disturbing new trend of people taking their own lives when they projected such an aura of confidence and happiness.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

many menaces out there.

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Shahryar's picture

they're annoyed at how childish and non-pragmatic others are. They're the adults.

Well, no, they're not. They're part of the "cowboys and indians" mindset. By that I mean they're playing at us vs them, bang bang, gotcha, no you didn't, pretending that "this is serious" when they're getting the equivalent of ice cream brain freeze that stops them from actually seeing what they're looking at.

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Christine.MI's picture

Zim, great essay! I used to listen to him r.e.l.i.g.i.o.u.s.l.y. I, too, learned soooo much from him, and his show is where I first "met" Bernie.

Now, if he were to walk in front of me, I'd stick my foot out. Last week I peeked into listening for just a few seconds-that's all it took to make me switch the channel. He was on a rant, I believe, and he declared that a vote for Stein would be "pissing away my vote." Well, it seems Mr. H. has become one of the biggest hypocrites on the "Progressive Left" nowadays, imo. He used to talk the talk of the middle class, of which he is a product of. Now he's just a big (insert ugly words).

"Tag, you're it!" my a**!!! How can he preach us to "get out there and get active" when really what he wants is his listeners to get in line??? I know, I know, he wants us active, which was awesome when he was a Bernie supporter. But I guess it was all double-speak or something because he's shown his true colors.

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ZimInSeattle's picture

between being progressive and falling for fear is getting tiresome.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

who does Thom say he's voting for? Who is he suggesting others vote for?

This is, BTW, where I'm still "stuck" re: Bernie Sanders - how can he now so strongly urge people who supported him, funded him, to now vote for Clintons. Very "stuck" on that.
Understand he had to "endorse" - as blandly as he did. But then, especially after learning how the DNC, DWS, Clintons cheated, stole votes, how can he suddenly become a "cheerleader" for what he fought against all his life?

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Lily O Lady's picture

prevent Democrats from completely screwing over Vermont. Congress has already passed legislation that overrules Vermont laws on GMOs. Could that have been a threat? I couldn't help but wonder.

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"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"

ZimInSeattle's picture

lesser evil voting. Problem is, as DallasDoc has said, the argument Trump is the greater evil cannot be made because he is so unpredictable. Good article here that's right along these lines:

Clinton, on the other hand, has a long record based on the considerable experience she likes to tout, so we know what to expect from her. That record, through her votes as a Senator and especially through her more direct actions as Secretary of State, includes responsibility for hundreds of thousands of killings of innocent civilians in mostly Islamic countries – Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia, to name only the most blatant and direct examples – and the destruction of the lives and communities of millions of survivors. That pretty much qualifies as genocide. Add to that her total support for the worst atrocities of Israel against the Palestinians in the occupied territories, and her crucial support for the brutal coup in Honduras, resulting in much more death, suffering, and injustice that still continues.

Trump is certainly the greater evil in terms of racist and xenophobic rhetoric and proposals. Discourse is important, as he is inciting the worst and most dangerous forms of racism and proposing horrible anti-immigrant policies. The Obama administration may have set records for deportations of undocumented immigrants with Hillary Clinton´s collaboration, but I´m willing to grant her lesser evil status on that one.

But is that a greater evil than genocidal mass murder? Is there any greater evil? Even when it´s done without a trace of racist language or a hint of hatred for the victims?

Emphasis added.

The question is, will it be more difficult to keep Trump in line than to keep Hillary from doing her carnage?

Trump feels worse; he´s certainly the more detestable personality. But how do we measure the different evils and sum them up to find the lesser evil? I don´t think we can, but again, how can there be a greater evil than genocidal mass murder? In addition to the terrible destruction at home and abroad caused by “free trade” and other economic policies promoted by Hillary Clinton, as well as the welfare and crime policies passed by her husband with her advice and unqualified support. At the very least, the case for Clinton as the lesser evil should be made more strongly, rather than just taking it as obvious because of the obvious horrors of Trump. Trump wears his evils on his sleeve and celebrates them, while Clinton hides them behind a much friendlier manner and discourse. But if we really care about the oppressed of the world and the 99 percent of the United States, we have to look below the surface and take everything into account.

~snip~

Meanwhile, I understand the people who remain critical of Hillary Clinton but say they will vote for her because of Supreme Court nominations, immigrant rights, neo-fascist rumblings, and fear of an unstable and unpredictable Donald Trump. I share their concerns and their fears.

But if that´s the motivation to vote for Clinton, just be clear about the harm she has done and will continue to do, especially as a genocidal murderer who has made it clear she will continue to kill and destroy, in the Middle East and probably elsewhere. Recognize that this is the price and say, along with Madeleine Albright, “we think it’s worth it”.

Time will tell. More here: Say Anything: Sanders and the Lesser Evil Mantra

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

I know what you mean and my story with Tom matches yours. I listen to him for a few mins. here and there on the radio or on RT news but he has become such a shill for hrc I can hardly listen to him. I find it hard to believe that all of these people are so afraid of t rump that they will do or say anything to get hrc elected, there has to be something else going on I just cant imagine what the hell it is.

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TheOtherMaven's picture

Money talks, bullshit walks.

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Lookout's picture

on Thom's advice. I watch the news on youtube. Thom's show on RT is a day late, but on one of his shows he claims he's not a journalist - just an editorialist, an op-ed reporter. He went on to say - Watch Amy Goodman if you want good journalism. He was right. We are each entitled to opinions, but it takes good data to make good decisions. Thom make's no bones - he reports his opinion, and in this case I think he's wrong.

I took his advice to move to Amy and haven't regretted it. Like you, ZiS, I learned many interesting things from Thom - and I do occasionally still watch. I'm glad I'm not if he's a hillnotjill, cause I'm jillnothill - if for no other reason than to try to build a non-corporate party.

I also like TheRealNews, and foreign sources like TeleSUR, RT, France24, DW, ... Those and more are @ www.newsanewtv.com

Heard a great interview yesterday on therealnews with Bruce Dixon of the BlackAgendaReport at the Green Convention on his ideas for building the Green party. I found it interesting. It is about 24 min

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIh0a8_xi2o
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIh0a8_xi2o]

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

ZimInSeattle's picture

TYT, and RealNews. I look at c99% as the comment section to CounterPunch.org. Hartmann seems to be letting a bit of CCDS get to him.

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"Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." - JFK | "The more I see of the moneyed peoples, the more I understand the guillotine." - G. B. Shaw Bernie/Tulsi 2020

Bollox Ref's picture

Is a vanity broadcaster.

Always known to fall in behind the 'candidate'

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Gëzuar!!
from a reasonably stable genius.

mouselander's picture

Keith Olbermann lately? (Or Keith Oligarchmann as I like to call him.)

Keith_O.png

Move over Keith, Marcos Moulitsas, Josh Marshall, Joan Walsh... (the list goes on). Another HillShill requesting permission to come on board!

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inactive account

Why do these fools like Keith Who?, Hartmann and the rest think Jill supporters will flock to clinton should Jill drop out. They'd better thank their lucky stars for Jill because in my case, and I suspect many others, if not for Jill I'd vote for trump. NEVER clinton...

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Hawkfish's picture

It's just part of the package. Does anyone think that Hellery is not driven by ego? And consider the Donald...

I remember a story I heard a few years back about U2 frontman Bono. He realized he was an egomaniac but decided that he could use this "gift" to make the world a better place by being a showman in the service of various causes (like Amnesty). Our personality defects can also be strengths if we are careful.

So I'll take "professional" and "vanity" in stride and move on to beliefs and heart. I figure that trying to stroke your ego by running as a Green is way to hard for most narcissists, so I'm taking her at her word.

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We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

If you want to listen to anyone, try good ol' Mike Malloy. He's on Progressive Voices radio M-F from 9 - 11 pm. I subscribe to his podcast for $50 a year. You'll get no party line from him. He thinks the whole system is corrupt and should be blown up.

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"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon

Rumsfeld endorsed Trump, not Hillary, back in June. He said, “I don't believe Hillary Clinton is qualified to be President of the United States.” The diary on this site earlier today was intended to be humorous.

Where Republicans Stand on Donald Trump: A Cheat Sheet

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"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."

mhagle's picture

. . . left a comment on YouTube about how disappointed I was in him. He has some of the top climate crisis scientists on his program . . . and he can support Mrs. Clinton??????

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Marilyn

"Make dirt, not war." eyo

Leema's picture

including bill McKibben. They buy into the Trump scare...and truth be known he is like a Gatling gun with no one controlling it...firing in all directions. ...but I like to think he will be stopped ...before that can ever happen.

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When wealth rules, democracy dies.

They can survive Hillary. They don't think that they can survive Trump. Most Americans can't survive either of them. That's where the major disconnect is. Folks like Hartmann think "Vote LOTE now, regroup, and try again later." What they don't understand is that for most people, there is no later. There is no next time. Unless things drastically improve, we're all screwed except for those who are well off, which is why so many people are ready to desperately vote for a third party candidate, even if they have no chance of winning. The media thinks it's about personalities, but they're wrong. It's very much about the issues, and they just don't get it.

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SnappleBC's picture

Some of us think there will, in fact, be a tomorrow. The sun will rise. The waves will roll in. For most of us, life will get more difficult but death is unlikely so there'll be a tomorrow. It is exactly for that reason... that hope for a tomorrow... that I vote 3rd party. I recognize that fixing the system that we've allowed to grow so corrupt will take time... many elections. It is tomorrow that makes me think I DO have a chance of winning... eventually.

If you're building a new house, someone has to be one of the first folks to put a brick down for the foundation. That brick, by itself, has zero chance of being a house. It's just a brick sitting there in the field. Yet that's the only way the house will ever get built.

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A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard

elenacarlena's picture

He actually quoted from the POS fact-free Stein diary on TOP?

He's drunk the Kool-Aid. Shame.

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Please check out Pet Vet Help, consider joining us to help pets, and follow me @ElenaCarlena on Twitter! Thank you.

Leema's picture

I am pretty sure that Thom thinks the world of Bernie. His Brunch with Bernie programs have been on for years. That alone could explain why he will follow him into the fire.

I too think the world of Bernie...and 'm sure Bernie needs to work on the inside...but I'm not on the inside....so for me, barring some information I do not have now, I will be voting for Jill. while still infiltrating the local Democratic Party to help foster progressive candidates in this closed primary state.

Personally I think Hillary has a neurological illness and is waiting till after the coronation to turn it over to Kaine & the powers that be. Wacko How's that for a CT? I would like to see her illness outed prior to that point...so that we have some say in who will be our next president.

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When wealth rules, democracy dies.

I'm afraid is showing his true colors.

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in a candidate for President than experience. I'd rather have an honest president with integrity rather than an experienced liar.

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Love is my religion.