The Democratic War Party is a Dead End for a Revolution
A lot of people got punk'd by Bernie Sanders. All the talk about a "political revolution" and a people's movement was nothing more than shilling for the Democratic Party. Many, perhaps most got just what they wanted, except victory. Many are not happy campers right now with Sanders' signals of working with Obama (the democratic war party) to defeat Donald Trump, obviously meaning helping Clinton win whether he likes it or not. Many have become fed up with the democratic party. Imagine being fed up with it well before this election and then having to sit thru all this bullshit. Sanders was accused early on in this shamockery of an election of being a "Sheepdog" for the Democratic party.
"Bernie Sanders is this election's Democratic sheepdog. The sheepdog is a card the Democratic party plays every presidential primary season when there's no White House Democrat running for re-election. The sheepdog is a presidential candidate running ostensibly to the left of the establishment Democrat to whom the billionaires will award the nomination. Sheepdogs are herders, and the sheepdog candidate is charged with herding activists and voters back into the Democratic fold who might otherwise drift leftward and outside of the Democratic party, either staying home or trying to build something outside the two party box."
http://blackagendareport.com/bernie-sanders-sheepdog-4-hillary
Fast forward FOURTEEN MONTHS! and what do we have?
Sanders is saying his primary goal is to defeat Trump. That says it all right there. The only way to do that is to make it so someone else defeats him. Since it won't be him, Clinton is the only other option. Sanders honestly doesn't like the Clintons, either of them and who can blame him. But he's a D.C. politician and he's made it clear many times the primary goal is to defeat the Republicans and to revitalize the democratic party so our Congress will make the changes he proposes. That was Bernie's revolution. I suppose it continues but it ain't no revolution, not with the Democratic party and not with our Congress.
Sanders is working to get his proposals into the Democratic party platform and wants his "revolution" to help him make sure the party platform promises are adhered to. IT IS ALL DEMOCRATIC PARTY, and by extension a reliance on Congress to take actions accordingly. Our Congress, the U.S. Congress with the collective job performance approval rating of 8%. Our war loving, austerity pushing, wealth inequality enabling Congress.
Those comfortable with the Democratic party have no problem with that but those resisting the party do have a problem. Sanders' campaign for the Democratic party presidential nomination was viewed as something that could spur a people's movement whether he won or not and would be the start of really challenging the oligarchy and its political party duopoly. Some even thought Bernie would mount a legitimate third party challenge, maybe partner up with Jill Stein. That was never going to happen.
So what did we get? A whole bunch of people newly registered to the Democratic party. Some bullshit about the Democratic party platform. A new Democratic National Committee (DNC) chairperson. Hillary Clinton vs. Donald Trump. And Bernie Sanders telling his supporters his primary goal is to defeat Donald Trump.
Hell with that. The goal should be to defeat both of them. Neither of these psycho assholes should be allowed to be the President of the United States, no way no how. Sure, in the end it doesn't really matter who becomes President, Obama the Novel Peace prize winning murdering war criminal proved that once and for all. It's (almost) beyond belief it's gotten this far, like an episode from the Twilight Zone, but it's real and it should be stopped. There shouldn't be any picking one over the other of these miscreants, no self respecting person should stoop so low, so fully impugn their own integrity.
Even Noam Chomsky is advocating that the left, progressives, brainless, vote for Hillary Clinton. Here he makes a case for lesser evil voting, that Trump is worse than Clinton, Satan is more evil than Satan, and we should ignore the FACT that Clinton is a deranged lying murderer that should be in prison, not running for political office.
http://johnhalle.com/outragesandinterludes/?p=1065
Now there are the obligatory people's conferences and summits to "continue Bernie's Revolution" only to further entrench the "revolution" into the democratic party apparatus. The People's Summit and the People's Revolution and the same old speakers and same old demands, most with documented affiliations with the establishment. Campaign Finance Reform!! Voting Rights!! They have their lists of alms for the poor, none of which challenge the oligarchy, and their plans for more and better politicians who will magically make Congress come ALIVE! Everything geared toward using the Democratic party and relying on politicians to take action in Congress and Senate to make changes.
That is not a revolution, it is a path to more subservience to those that rule us, the oligarchy controlled by the plutocracy. The Plutarchy.
Undoubtedly most Sanders supporters will fall in line and vote for Hillary Clinton. Many won't, some estimate 30% or more. Those who do vote for Clinton were never serious about revolution, they couldn't have been. They wouldn't know a revolution if it bit them in the ass.
Those refusing to vote for Clinton and ending their relationships, if they had one, with the democratic party will migrate toward third parties or hopefully a real independent people's movement, one completely removed from electoral politics and geared toward a radical challenge of the power instead of hoped for incremental change as the oligarchy allows.
Many will get sucked into faux revolutionary efforts, like the People's Summit and the People's Revolution that will not challenge the power. These efforts will seek to funnel citizen unrest into the tidy confines of the electoral process and the democratic party. "Call your congressperson!", "write your Senator!", maybe, just maybe they will do the right thing.
Those with true revolutionary aims will need to unite in order to establish a workable framework to challenge the oligarchy.
The conditions are still very ripe for an independent movement against this corrupt political system. We have the perfect symbols to reject what the oligarchy is trying to shove down our throats. Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. The country has reached a zenith in absurdity. It's like the often used refrain, "if not now, when"?
Sanders goal of preventing Donald Trump from becoming president is just more duopoly tribal bullshit between the democratic party and the republican party. What this country needs is a full stop on this sham of an election to expose the illusions of democracy and We the People and force changes to end the oligarchy and its duopoly. That's the primary problem we can't keep putting off election after election. We live under an oligarchy, that has to be changed.
Comments
I listened and understood
but I feel that it's irrelevant to wallow around in semantics about his intent, his betrayal, his this or that. I just don't give a damn about any pols intent when they lead people down the garden path. I understand that he ran as a Dem. and why. I'm glad he did he exposed the beast were dealing with. I gave up on thinking of pols as leaders or saviors due to falling for Obama's pocket full of hope. DiFi said at O's inaugural it was a peaceful transition of power. She lied, it was a expansion of the same by-partisan power. An unbelievable story line in which we're supposed to believe he was a victim of the evil R's obstruction and the racism. The Democrat's we elect are complicit, it was/is a 1% by-partisan political coup.
Bernie preaches a political revolution and then acquiesces to the clinton Dem machines blatant rigging that thwarted his candidacy. Call it what you will but it seems to me that a real political revolution does not happen if it's all about elevating a pol who plays the game on the farcical terms laid down by the Democratic crime family. It's a symbolic candidacy rather then a real challenge by Us not Them.
If it's not them why join in the hyped up fear mongering about stopping the Hairball? I don't blame Bernie personally. I respect him and thank him for giving voice to the people who know damn well that enough is enough. Fraught with implications? When we are left with nothing but what is implied by a pol be it Bernie or any pol that's bound to happen. Betrayal? That depends on how much faith you place on any pol or leader.
On the other hand he is still a Democrat after the fix was implemented by the machine. He has united with the Democratic corrupt beyond redemption machine to fight the hairball. It seems to me it's time to stop thinking that Bernie or any pol is going to fight to take back our hijacked electoral system. He is sheep dogging his supporters back to the herd. Instead of hanging this on what Bernie is doing why not use the movement that he empowered to have a real political revolution. One that does not use the Democratic party as the vehicle?
I quit working for the OFA when Senator Obama voted for FISA. My precinct boss at Obama head quarters told me to remember that Obama wasn't as important as it was the movement that mattered. Pols come and go and play their games so it seems foolish to hang this all on what will Bernie do? He's done it and I'm not buying it.
Forget about the platform it means nothing. Forget about leveraging the Democratic party to represent we the people. Forget about down ticket better Dems. They will knuckle under like Bernie or once elected they will be powerless. Look at the useless lame progressive caucus in congress. What good is Bernie personnel integrity if as a candidate he uses it as an excuse to fold in the face of breathtaking corruption and a rigged primary? Bernie is now a distraction that leads us back to the fold and manufactures via fear to our consent to the fascistic duopoly. It's up to us the same as it always was.
I, for one, believe in the power of words.
Maybe it comes from having a writer's background. Maybe it comes from the hurtful things that were said when I was a child. No matter, people chose their words for a reason.
[Emphasis is added throughout the quotes below]
God spoke the world into being by the power of His words (Hebrews 11:3).
MLK knew this also:
“But if thought corrupts language, language can also corrupt thought.”
― George Orwell, 1984
S.I. Hayakawa wrote a book called Language in Thought and Action which I highly recommend:
From Dr. John D. Willis's essay on S.I. Hayakawa:
If people do not believe that word choices make a difference, then why do they spend so much time damning Trump's rhetoric?
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I too believe in the power
of words. Did I say words have no meaning? No. I said Bernie's words gave voice to a democratic reform movement. He is echoing OWS and BLM as well as the 'far left' ideological purist's like me. So you danced around my point with semantics which was not about language but what Bernie is doing. He's throwing his lot in with the Democratic party. So instead of lecturing me in the importance of words how about addressing why people should not feel betrayed.
If they bought into Bernie's revolution then why not use that word? 'That what we call a rose by any other name' As you can see I'm not a big fan of Frank Luntz or any other including so called liberal linguistic twisty meme'er. The freaking bible you got to be kidding. That text is a seriously scary use of words.
Of course words are important. Pols use words like parse for lying and compromise for betrayal. Call it as you see it is my reaction to the language and words employed by all pols. When I listen to and believe in a pol like Bernie using words like political revolution, duopoly, oligarchy, enough is enough and all that jazz it certainly feels like a betrayal when he pivots to the Clinton's in unity to fight The Hairball. Whhat?
Especially galling since the Dem. machine rigged the primary and rendered the millions of people who liked Bernie's words redundant and not legitimate Dem. voters and struck them off the voter rolls. Why should Bernie's acquiescence to this crooked primary not be considered a betrayal. Politics needs to stop being all about the war of twisty words and start being about what these weasel pols and the political apparatchik that creates these meme's really is about. Enough is enough! Some good words, thanks Bernie. Now give them worth.
Maybe it was your dismissal of word choices
as being semantics implying that words didn't matter. However, that ignores that semantics is the study of words and their meanings that affect how we think about a topic and shape our world view. Semantics is not "Six of one, half a dozen of another."
My point in my comment was about word choices only, so that is what I will continue to address. Once again, I highly recommend people (and especially those who are politically active) read Hayakawa's book Language in Thought and Action.
A (relatively) quick synopsis:
So back to my objection of the use of the word "betrayal" in regard to Sanders. The root of "betrayal" is from mislead/deceive. Common synonyms for "betrayal" are deception, treacherous, sellout, treason, perfidy, trickery, etc.
I would say that the Democratic Party has betrayed the people. We have numerous examples of its deceptions, trickery and selling out. Sanders, on the other hand, has been up front since the beginning about what he would do: not running as a third party candidate, working to reform the party from within and backing the democratic nominee. We might not like it, but it is not a betrayal.
Other than people who use the word based on an utter lack of awareness of meaning and connotations (which would be somewhat surprising in people who gather at a site like c99), the only other people who would use such a word for Sanders' actions would be those who want to paint Sanders as someone less than he has shown us he is. The word says he is a liar: that he has deceived us. And it is not accurate.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
In a way, Trump is also a harbinger of “revolution”
1. Choice of words can indeed be powerful. Trump’s rhetoric gets people riled up, one way or another, for or against. He says all sorts of transgressive things — things that break the rules about what people thought a public figure was allowed to say, until he came along.
2. Trump often acts as if point #1 is already the end rather than the means — as if saying things that are taboo within the system already amounts to changing the system. He doesn’t actually seem to care that much about winning — at least not in the conventional way (that would just confirm the system and its rules).
Trump is a marketer. He knows exactly
how words can influence people. He deliberately chose to market himself to the lowest common denominator. He did not do this in his previous presidential runs, so a lot of it is smoke and mirrors. Unfortunately that doesn't give the thinking populace a way to measure his actual stance on policies. It is much the same as what we get with HRC except she has a record that shows us what her policies will be.
Trump is definitely outside of the box.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
He has only said he would support the nominee,
He said it once, with a newspaper editorial board at the beginning of the primary (wish I could remember which one), as he was standing up to leave.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
He has said it more than once, including
at a debate when he was asked point blank. Does it really matter how many times he said it? The fact that he said it at all means that he cannot go back and unsay it. The media and the Internet don't forget, remember? He would have been blasted to hell and back if he tried to go back on what he has said...even if he had only said it once.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Sorry WindDancer13,
How many times shouldn't have been my point since, as hard as I try not to, I miss stuff.
I'm feeling protective of Bernie, and I need to be more careful.
You are correct. Please accept my apology.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
An apology was not needed.
I think a lot of us are feeling protective about Sanders. I spent the past year suffering over the idea that he would be assassinated. (Comparisons to RFK did not help.)
We are still fledglings. When we are ready, we will soar.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
That is heartfelt nice writing, WD,
Even those of us 60+ feel that.
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One way to defeat Trump is to elect Bernie progressives
to Congress. That flips the "can't get anything through Congress" narrative against the GOP.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Excellent point.
Even his own party is going to try to keep him in check. Paul Ryan recently made a statement regarding Trump's rhetoric about Muslims.
It is kind of frustrating that the Republican party will offer checks and balances within their own party, and the Democrats won't...unless we get those new progressives in there.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Appreciate that.
Fwiw, I'm not being hostile really. I've never been a Sanders supporter with the primary reason because he ran as a democrat. As I said in the essay, the democratic party is a dead end to me and Sanders' effort, which was clearly about using the democratic party for his revolution, was never something I supported.
The acrimony is about the Democratic party first and foremost.
But maybe still something that we needed to see?
And to also see how it plays out at the convention.
I appreciate your statement, Big Al. IMO, selection of the
Democratic Party was a strategic choice by Bernie Sanders. In the U.S. political arrangement, third or fourth political parties have little national impact, except as "spoilers" that hurt one of the two major parties. To have an impact, Bernie Sanders had to run as a Democrat. For example, Jill Stein might be a good candidate, but how has she impacted this U.S. Presidential election? She is not even allowed to participate in debates! I might prefer a parliamentary political arrangement, but that does not exist in the USA.
If you have viable alternatives, I would love to hear them!
My thought is that Bernie may play a quasi-parliamentary role through negotiations on platform statements and personnel for the prospective administration...unless HRC is convicted before the nomination. In which case, all bets are off.
Honestly, this election cycle is so weird that any assumptions based on history are questionable, in my opinion. Trump may yet be dumped by the Republican establishment. HRC may yet be dumped by the Democratic establishment. The next 4 months will be wild!
"All Life is Problem Solving" - Karl Popper
Bernie is no shill-dog for the Demo...
...establishment. I'm sorry you feel that way. I think he is just trying to walk a very thin line between being rejected as FRAUD, as you have stated here, or maintaining a position where his ideas can be heard. I must stand with the latter. I see him as having done a good job of bringing the truth to light without being dismissed as a total freak mad man (like so many of the rest of us) by the establishment.
Remember: Telling the truth is an act punishable by being silenced so as not to be heard. Bernie understands this and is playing well within these parameters to affect the change we need so completely. That is the way I see this.
I think the acrimony is at the entire system
It's a complete setup. Demonstrated for sure in the primaries, but clear with our dysfunctional government system, all legislatures except maybe the most local. That is the only level where there is much churn. Above that, it's like being granted tenure. Lifetime appointments on the gravy train. Closed circuit.
So where to start? All over, invent a new form of governance? We are running out of time. It would require heavy lifting starting from where?
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Yes it is.
And yes we are running out of time. I wish someone had easy answers but there are none. I just think we have an opportune situation to reject the status quo and see what happens.
And the People's whatever-they're-calling-it
is probably stuck in the same rut, assuming the exact same system of governance. I know the EU is breaking down, like Yugoslavia did, but Shah may be right that we should reconfigure into smaller countries. Hell, revert to city-states and The Rest of Us.
edit for embarrassing typo in third word
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Be Careful What You Wish For
The elites are creating modern castles for themselves, creating places where they can barricade themselves into relative safety while the rest of us wage war over crumbs. Their gated communities tend to be built like forts, although not very obviously. They already have armed guards in many places to keep the rest of us out.
They are creating those new city-states, and we aren't going to be allowed in.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
I realize that, neoconned.
Glib, frustrated remark. Mea culpa. I see the ramparts rising. From outside. Few do.
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Prisons,
especially when their food, water, power are cut off.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Castles Can Be Taken
I remember one castle fell when the besiegers entered through what amounted to the septic system and opened the gates.
The Romans built a ramp to Masada.
Alexander the Great captured Tyre by expanding the width of a sand bar.
There is always a way. The key is to find it.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Rejecting the status quo with you.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
planet Earth is a ticking time-bomb
because the so-called linear graphs of global warming will soon go exponential or non-linear. Carbon emissions and global temps appear to have a neat correlation on a linear scale, but sooner or later atmospheric carbon will beak out and zoom way up.
It will be a long time for the associated temps to catch up with the carbon spike. If nothing is done, it will follow its master like a loyal dog, and then all of the oceans will theoretically boil off and escape as steam into the atmosphere as Venus did from its greenouse effect. But not to worry, every living thing except thermophillic bacterial would be dead by then anyway.
This twilight of the gods, this Nordic götterdämmerung, it is being observed in real time with satellites over the Arctic and the Antarctic. Melting ice caps. Melting Greenland. We've witnessed the disintegration of the Larsen A Ice Shelf in western Antarctica 2012. It only took a few hours. Now this is 2016, and time is closer than you might think. It is all fueled by infinite growth in a finite world of resources.
It will stop but not by human hands, nature itself will end the super-exploitation.
Hillary is point woman for that advanced decadent stage of capitalism, all of that insane corporate greed, Her solution is to go on living it up: join us, the party will never end, the good times are just around the corner. Cheers to the good life.
Trump is not the lesser of that evil, and in any case he will be used the same way as the oligarchy sees fit.
The extraordinary amount of electoral fraud in the primaries was condoned if not actually financed by the DNC officials and it was done out of desperation. It will continue for the foreseeable future, exit polls be damned!
the planet
and its climate is indeed the issue, Seems the oligarchs want the ride it out making as much money as possible. The models have consistently underestimated the increase in CO2 , H2O vapor, methane release, temperature increase of air and oceans, increased volume of oceans as they warm, glacial melting, etc. etc.
If we left it in the ground now, we would still be warming through the end of the century. It is the issue of our time, and we play politics. The power of the corporations to distract and distort.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
The Goal
He Who Takes The Last Dollar Wins.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Birdie did what no other candidate running for office has
done. He showed us clearly how things were rigged. Why do we need him to say it? Who will report that? The media that ignored him for months? The media that helped the rigged election (CA early call), the media that would week after week add in the supers to HRH's totals?
What did you want him to do? It would've been impossible for him to run 3rd party and get as far as he got.
What's he supposed to do now if he voices objections to the rigging? They will just call it sour grapes.
He pointed the way. He laid out his platform and his goals while simultaneously pulling that that thick curtain. He's no saint, or hero or angel. But a 74 year old man, who day after day week after week went around showing us what was up? 74? Are you kidding me? who can do that at that age?
I never expected him to win, although I hoped day after day and showed it by phone-banking, donating and canvassing.
Give the guy a break. He's never been a member of the democratic party and signed on for US, not for him. And now it's up to us. I'm an old woman and no candidate in my life time has been able to expose the rotting fucking structure that underpins our politics the way Birdie has. No candidate ever. I will be eternally grateful to him for that.
Disparage him if you want, it's your right, of course. I for one see clearly now, how rotten our system is... and I followed his life-time stance by divorcing myself from the democratic party that actually left me years ago.
Don't believe everything you think.
No Hero?
Personally, I'd chalk that up as pretty heroic. He's no super-hero, but he has done about as much as one real guy could do.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Heroic he is. eom
Don't believe everything you think.
"Revolution" curdles into Resentment, yet again
All that money. All that energy. All that hope. All that purpose. Going ... No Where. If we back up to the beginning of the Bernie Revolution, or whatever his campaign was, we notice that it was like jello, firming up with wiggle room (for him). Since the jello never reached it's resolutely firm state of jelling completely (new party or third party run) all we're left with is a puddle of evaporating water and a sugary mess of artificial sugar and food coloring.
I love, admire, and respect Bernie, for his long career of public service and brave instincts to do right by the American people, despite getting ridicule from and being isolated by his Congressional colleagues. But, and there's usually a but, I question his misleading campaign and wonder what its ultimate purpose was. Perhaps Bern was unsure himself, of how far he was willing to go with it and imprecise with the language he used to attract supporters. "Revolution" is a word that can be misused and misunderstood. It implies a quick, usually violent break with the power structure. That's what led voters to assume he was going all the way. Perhaps he was threatened during his Tuesday of bamboozlement in D.C., when he met with the big honcho firing squad. Maybe he was going to make a big deal of the rigged, fraudulent primaries but they disuaded him. And then he realized he was checkmated, game over. We'll never know. But still, leading us down the path of revolution only to be brought back to the starting gate and told we must defeat Trump and support the Dem nominee whose entire career and policies Bern was railing against? Worse still, there's "no place for us (lefties) to go", proving Bill Clinton right and triumphant. No structure, political party, leader, or concensus among squabbling lefties about how to proceed or where to go. Sort of like Occupy, but on a much larger scale.
his misleading campaign?
I call bullshit. And I don't do it lightly. Bull Shit.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Bullshit? Magicsister
Is this how you were raised? I gave MY take on the state of where I think this movement stacks up and you are attacking me? Who the hell are you? Go back to DK. And all the others who won't allow reality to pierce their perception of Bernie's so-called movement. If this site is now devolving into a place where honest discussion with supporting reasoning is cut off by cursing, then I don't want any part of it. Are we not allowed to criticize actions by Bernie because he's a saint? How is this different from Daily Kos and Saint Hillary?
Actually, Writerinres,
It is exactly how I was raised. To call bullshit when I heard it.
"Who the hell are you? Go back to DK. And all the others who won't allow reality to pierce their perception of Bernie's so-called movement."
Ya, right.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
Calm it. Too hot today, TY n/t
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Whatever
Bernie did or didn't do, should have done could have done, I'll be forever grateful for him because of this. He pulled the curtain back and exposed the corruption. Now he didn't do it personally but by him being in the race, and winning, it led to the dnc and clinton doing what they did. If we don't get back to fair and honest elections, all the revolutions in the world ain't going to save us from, as George would say, the true owners of this country...
The Democratic Party will not be taken over from within.
However, I don't see a point to bashing Sanders.
This pretty much sums it up for me
Throwing sand in the gears of the Dem party certainly won't do any harm but ultimately this has to be a fight from outside the current system - at least initially.
Also I do not think that Sanders is either a traitor or a villain of any type for that matter.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
Another Steaming Pile Of BullShit from Big Al
Bernie started a revolution. What people choose to do with it now is up to them. So Bernie decides he can now do the most good from within the Dem party, throwing sand in the gears of the corporate Dems. Fine with me. Go for it Bernie. And Thank You Bernie for firing up the crowd. We all owe you a huge debt of gratitude for doing it. Now I'll vote Green.
And anyone buying Big Al's bullshit, calling Bernie is a traitor, is the one being punked.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
Big Al has a point
He's welcome to express his opinion, nobody is required yo agree. This is brainstorming season folks. We all need to put on our stinkin thinkin hats and throw all our crazy ideas in the witches brew pot.
Big Al generated a useful discussion. Unfortunately, at this point in time that's all any of us can accomplish until we get a plan that will make Bernie's revolution, that started with Occupy, a reality.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
everyone is entitled...
to their opinion. But there is no need in insulting people that have different views than you. I can't speak for AL, but I can understand why he thinks the Democratic Party is not worth the effort. I'm still holding out hope. The convention is 5 weeks away. I'll go green if Bernie isn't an option, but I'm not going to insult people who think otherwise and CoE you might consider being less reactionary in your posts.
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
Hahaha. Did the word Bullshit upset you?
Geezuz. I'm entitled to my opinion too.
Donnie The #ShitHole Douchebag. Fake Friend to the Working Class. Real Asshole.
I have no problem with the word bullshit.
Use it all the time myself. It cuts to the chase like few other words without being overly profane. I hear ya COE, we all have our opinions. I'm sure you wouldn't want me to keep mine to myself and I wouldn't want you or anyone else to keep theirs to themselves. Let it all hang out.
May I ask you a question, citizenof earth?
Having seen avatars similar to yours in the Twittersphere, I've long wondered why people think Bernie is a 'no more war' candidate' or a 'peace candidate'?
Now I fully understand that he's not a neo-con, and claims to want to only 'make war for protecting people' I guess he means as R2P sorts, but how well have those worked out, seriously, given the lies an agitprop that's underpinned them? Now here's Bernie in his own words, and since then he's gone on record as supporting Obama's Terror Tuesday Kill List. As someone above noted, he believes that ISIS/Daesh must be destroyed, pretty much missing the origins of those related groups, imo.
From September, 2015, Café Babylon: 'Bernie Hearts Drone Assassinations, but with One Proviso'
His revolution, according to his words, at least in the past, was to reform the Dems. He's often noted to be a socialist, which isn't so; he's a Democratic socialist, and a capitalist reformer, and among many other issues, hasn't even called to nationalize the Fed, nor called for public banking, both which are key for The Rabble class, imo. I reckon he's pretty much FDR without the Wobblies, et.al. striking and interrupting capitalism.
He believe the US should have the strongest military in the world? At least Stein disagrees vehemently with that, and calls for a reduction of the military budget by half. Base closings, too, iirc.
Now I didn't check Big Al's link from Friday on his and Clinton's agreed-upon policy changes, but a few days ago she said 'nopers; I never asked Obama for one thing after I conceded to him and said I'd work for him'. Now maybe he'd whispered 'SoS' in her ear... (smile)
But why 'Bernie No More Wars', please? Aspirational. perhaps? Just as an aside, were Stein to give him the top of the Green ticket, I'd certainly call bullshit on that at this point.
This magic moment.
One might even conclude he has changed a few of his own ideas on the subject. YMMV.
[video:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FV2wCXKgG1E]
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Why do we assume the Dems are invincible?
Before it was co-opted by corporatists and crazy hateful people, the Tea Party was starting to have an impact on the Republican Party. I think a similar movement to take over the Democratic Party is less likely to be co-opted, but it needs a similar fervor. You can't win a war with flowers, and that's what we're taliking about here, a war.
Relax, brothers and sisters. It ain't over yet.
https://berniesanders.com/press-release/thousands-potential-candidates-r...
Bernie has people volunteering to run for every Congressional seat in the country, and a large portion of state representatives and state senators. And that was the first day after his call for volunteers to run for office.
His campaign has admitted that the response surprised them and has been overwhelming. I'm sure that Brand New Congress would be very happy to help people who want to run for Congresscritter. If they can actually field all those people and get them on the ballot [as independents I assume] it will have an effect.
The Revolution may not be dead after all.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
There are many that will try to do something
BERNIE SANDERS: Almost 7,000 of my supporters just signed up to run for office
The political revolution continues
From Sanders' campaign manager:
"Bernie Sanders could offer an endorsement of presumptive Democratic nominee Hillary Clinton before the party’s convention next month, depending on the outcome of ongoing policy talks between the two campaigns, Sanders’s campaign manager said Friday.
Jeff Weaver, a longtime Sanders confidant, said that he has been encouraged by discussions over several policy issues important to Sanders — including a plan for tuition-free college — that Sanders would like to see as part of the Democratic legislative agenda going forward. Clinton and Sanders began talks in earnest over such issues during a meeting Tuesday in Washington."
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2016/06/17/a-sander...
That is why Bernie did not specifically endorse Clinton in his speech, they're still negotiating. But its clear what he will do.
“I also look forward to working with Secretary Clinton to transform the Democratic Party so that it becomes a party of working people and young people, and not just wealthy campaign contributors: a party that has the courage to take on Wall Street, the pharmaceutical industry, the fossil fuel industry and the other powerful special interests that dominate our political and economic life.”
Another way to look at it.
I keep hearing he has lost his leverage, but it looks like he has the leverage of his endorsement. Hillary wants it in order to try to get his supporters. He listed everything he ever talked about at his rallies (it seemed to me) in his video speech the other night. She needs to essentially accept all of his campaign positions in order to get his endorsement. Seems to me. Will she do it? It will be like he won, even though he didn't. His campaign becomes hers. Ha.
So, that does leave him an out, if he chooses not to endorse? He has been saying what the Democratic party needs to do, and if they don't.... ?
In my dreams...
"Brothers and sisters, I cannot in good faith endorse the Clinton campaign. Secretary Clinton does not agree that ... [whatever]. And, the Democratic Party because of [whatever] is not committed to be the party for the working people of America rather than for the corporations and special interests. Therefore, in order to keep my promise to fight to keep Donald Trump out of the White House, I am announcing my run for president as an Independent."
^^ supposed to be a reply to Al. nt
Hey Al,
I have trouble believing anything the Washington Post has to say. Remember the 16 Bernie bash stories in 16 hours?
Being 59 years old, a life long democrat, I am with you all the way about the democratic party. I'm outta there. Just don't understand your disdain for Bernie.
I feel like I have a shadow, not mine, following me around trying to feed me bullshit. I pray, sort of, to know the truth when I see it, hear it, feel it. I hope you don't mind my asking for reasons. I mean it respectfully for your feelings, and ideas.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
I know, I was going to say "hey, its the WaPo:,
a link I would normally not include. But it appears to be an accurate statement from his campaign manager so I went with it. Same thing was on various other sites, like HuffPo (another one).
I wouldn't call my opinion of Bernie disdain. I have to give him credit for saying and proposing things the other oligarchy politicians don't. But one way to look at it, which I get many on here don't agree with, is that Bernie has become the torch carrier for the democratic party and in effect Hillary Clinton, perpetuating the illusions that it can be "revitalized" and thereby become a real vehicle for change. That's what I'm criticizing and I believe its more than a dead end, its hurtful to a real revolution.
If he did endorse
I would like to see the campaign make a bonfire of all digital remnants of The List. FU, Clintons. Turnabout and all that.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Bernie Supporters likely won't give $$
Because I contributed to the Obama campaign in 2008 (thinking he was a progressive), I have received many requests from the Hillary campaign for $$. Yesterday, I selected #9 on the phone, so I no longer receive any begging calls. I throw HRC's junk mail in the recycle bin. (I want it to keep coming since it helps the postal workers who endorsed Bernie.) When the DNC called me recently, I asked them never to call my house again. They have not. I have unsubscribed to any emails from Dem elites like DNC, DSCC, DCCC. It's easy to check where the email comes from. Getting my name from a Bernie list won't help a bit and I don't believe Bernie would even consider giving HRC any lists. He has respect for his supporters. HRC can contribute to her own campaign. She and Bill have made hundreds of millions of dollars giving speeches to Wall Street and big corporations since Bill left office.
I've read that Act Blue 'owns' its lists. So, any monies,
if raised using them as the go-between, or fundraising mechanism, could possibly be bought by FSC's campaign.
I agree, though, that her campaign is mostly wasting their time, if they solicit from Bernie's supporters.
Mollie
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving."--Author Unknown
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Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Time to pressure ActBlue?
Or are they too much inserted into the cogs? Pressure them to destroy a database? Unlikely to work. They want theirs.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
It really doesn't matter to me.
I quit giving to the DNC years ago, and I will NEVER donate to Clinton. Why does she need it?
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/10/politics/hillary-clinton-donors/index.html
Thank you, Al.
I will acquiesce and check out the WaPo story. I've been back and forth about Huffpo, too.
It is just to my thinking, but I still believe Bernie has chosen the best path for him to do what he wants to do, as cluttered a path as it is, for the American people. If he lets me down, I'm considering liquidating my meager assets and investing in a nice cozy quiet cave, on a tall mountain...with, perhaps my very own server.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
My spelling and punctuation suck today.
But, I can't keep my mouth/keyboard shut down.
Apologies.
'Well, I've wrestled with reality for thirty five years, Doctor, and I’m happy to state I finally won out over it." Elwood P. Dowd "
not necessarily
that doesn't say it all. there is another interpretation which is the one i'm holding in my mind right now. Sanders still believes that he is the best candidate to beat Trump and he will do everything possible to be the one to do it. that's his primary goal. he hasn't conceded yet. time and events have yet to play out, so that's what i'm going with for now. until he says he's done trying to be the Democratic nominee then i'm not going to interpret his words any other way.
Defeating Trump ...
is not the same as supporting Hillary.
In fact, if I were a Dem official, I would be far more inclined to view Bernie's Trump statement (which he's used repeatedly throughout the campaign) as a not-so-veiled threat to run third party, rather than as any ringing endorsement of my preferred nominee.
Just saying.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
That sounds great
who doesn't want to defeat Trump. Who also does not want to take out The Mad Bomber woman. Defeating Trump for me is not as important as defeating the Clinton New Democratic Machine. These are the people who Bernie caucuses with. He legitimizes them by refusing to call them out for what they are and for their rigging of this farce of a primary election. If he's gonna run third party then why not say it? Meh.
No way his speech the other day was not anything but a get behind Hillary the Hun as The Haiirball is so scary. What about her? The Clinton's are way scarier to me the Trump. WTF is Bernie thinking ? Why not call them out for criminally rigging this primary. Why not fight for the political revolution he engendered instead of fear mongering against the other fascistic asshole we are offered as a choice. Come on Bernie you convinced me we could have a political revolution and then you say unite to fight the other asshole whose just as bad as the Hillary asshole. Huh? About the rigged crooked primary crickets./
Glass half full (of gin perhaps?) me
Would love to see him burn down the house in Philly. Call out the Party at their party for the cheating, voter suppression, theft of the nomination. And then announce third or fourth or fifth party if it doesn't tilt to him. I don't think that will happen, but it would be on teevee and be a wonderful thing to see. Would MSM dare black that out? Revolution on the streets.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
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