Stats and that 'theoretical' language of Science
I read this post earlier today, and was 'inspired' by its eye-brow raising implications:
Election Fraud likely Benefited Clinton Over Sanders - By a Lot
by Steven D — 06/10/2016
Steven D summarizies the study results, with which I agree:
"[the authors] states where there was no paper voting trail (i.e., e-voting machines) and found Clinton did significantly better in those states than Sanders compared to states where a paper trail existed."
That should be a very concerning 'trend', if true.
Steven also concludes with:
"If you're a statistician, please feel free to examine their paper at greater length."
{Thanks SD, I was looking for a "challenge" today, LOL.}
Well, I'm not a "statistician" in real life, BUT I played one at University many years ago.
So here goes a 'brief dive' into into the p-values "significance" of that eye-brow raising study:
"Are we witnessing a dishonest election? A between state comparison based on the used voting procedures of the 2016 Democratic Party Primary for the Presidency of the United States of America," dated June 7, 2016
First a few boring definitions, hopefully made palatable:
The p-value is defined as the probability of obtaining a result equal to or "more extreme" than what was actually observed, when the null hypothesis is true.[4][5]
Null Hypothesis, Huh, what's that? (Think "status quo" vs the nuevo theory that will "upset the applecart" and your halfway there.)
In inferential statistics, the term "null hypothesis" usually refers to a general statement or default position that there is no relationship between two measured phenomena, or no association among groups.[1] Rejecting or disproving the null hypothesis — and thus concluding that there are grounds for believing that there is a relationship between two phenomena (e.g. that a potential treatment has a measurable effect) — is a central task in the modern practice of science, and gives a precise criterion for rejecting a hypothesis.
Notice that last bit: It is one of the jobs of Science, to overturn those "Null Hypothesis" (ie. those "status quo" theories) -- with better, more accurate Hypotheses ... (of how things really work, to the best of our accumulated knowledge).
Onto the first conclusion of that multi-nation University study (minus some the 'eye-glazing' numbers):
The [data] show a statistically significant difference between the groups [paper-trail states vs non-paper trail states]. States without paper trails yielded higher support for Secretary Clinton, than states with paper trails ... As such, the potential for election fraud in voting procedures is strongly related to enhanced electoral outcomes for Secretary Clinton. P = 0.003
Remember the definition for P-value: "The p-value is defined as the probability of obtaining a result equal to or "more extreme" than what was actually observed, when the null hypothesis is true."
The lower the p-score, the less credible is the "status quo" theory is ... given the data.
IOW there is a 0.3% probability (less than 1%) of seeing this same difference in results or worse (between those those 2 groups of states) -- by chance alone -- assuming the non-paper trail systems were NOT tampered with in favor of one candidate (assuming the Null Hypothesis holds, = No Tampering). Or more simply the conjectured theory of the "rigging" occurring within the group of Electronic system states, in the favor of one candidate over the other, IS statistically significant. (with an "effect size" stat of d = 1.19)
IOW the Apple-turning Theory has statistical merit. (ie. that there WAS Tampering in that e-machine group, = the Null-canceling theory).
But what does this d-stat of 1.19 mean?
Let's let some eggheads from the citadels of Science explain it:
How to Calculate Effect Size -- ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
Cohen's term d is an example of this type of effect size index. Cohen classified effect sizes as small (d = 0.2), medium (d = 0.5), and large (d ≥ 0.8).[5] According to Cohen, “a medium effect of .5 is visible to the naked eye of a careful observer. A small effect of .2 is noticeably smaller than medium but not so small as to be trivial. A large effect of .8 is the same distance above the medium as small is below it.”[6]
So statistically speaking, if a d of 0.8 has a large real world impact, a d = 1.19 much be even more largely impactful as well.
Now to what I find to be the most interesting result of the recent study, concerning the Exit Polls vs the Actual Results (broken out by the Voting-method Groups)
As I recall, there were similar system-wide skewing of results in favor of GW Bush vs Kerry back in 2004, but it was swept under the national rug after a few days of media preponderance. It seemed the national media at the time had a "intellectual crisis" or two, as a long-trusted and statistically accurate tool of theirs (Exit Polling), had to be quietly ignored and tossed into the trash bin of "Expediency" post haste. ... I recall hearing about court testimony concerning these Exit Polls "anomalies", where a renown Statistical Expert explained it to the Judge: that for such Exit Poll anti-skewing to happen like that, in so many places --by pure statistical chance -- with no human interference, would be something like "a Trillion to One odds."
Numbers like that should definitely raise some eyebrows (and ire's) ... and so should those these (again from the opening study):
On the overall, are the exit polls different from the final results? Yes they are. The data show lower support for Secretary Clinton in exit polls than the final results would suggest ... P = 0.002, d = 0.71.
While an effect size of 0.71 is quite substantial, and suggests a considerable difference between exit polls and outcomes, we expected that this difference would be even more exaggerated in states without paper voting trails. Indeed, the effect size in states without paper voting trails is considerably larger: (d=) 1.50, and yields more exaggerated support for the Secretary in the hours following the exit polls ... P < 0.001.
In contrast, the effect size is much smaller in states with paper trails, ... P = 0.04, d = 0.58.
IOW there is a 0.1% probability (less than one-tenth of 1%) of seeing this same result or worse (of those contra-predictive Exit Polls, illustrated by the pie charts) -- by chance alone -- assuming the Null theory that the Exit Polls should, by construction, always favor the winning candidate.
IE. the conjectured "rigging" of the Electronic systems in favor of one candidate over the other one, on the basis the Exit Poll baseline, IS VERY statistically significant here. (with an "effect size" stat of d = 1.50, which in the language of Science is HUUUUUGE!!!)
The "control" version of this theory on the other hand (ie. the results in just the paper-trail states) have a 4% probability of seeing Hillary beating the exit poll sampling, by chance alone. This effect d = 0.58, shows a "medium effect" in the deviation from normal.
IOW the results of the contra-predictive BIAS displayed, in the states where Voting Machines have NO paper trails, are WAY more "extreme" {at over-turning the Null Theory}, than what occurred in the more 'run of the mill' control group of states that do (have a paper audit trail).
Notes: Here are some of my 'objective' concerns with this study, "scientifically" speaking:
1) Was there any reason for voters lie during the Exit Polls? (en-mass, in so many places? ie. were there scads of Hill-leaners, but afraid to admit it, etc.)
2) Were the Exit Polls truly randomly sampled? (ie. did they ask every tenth Voter leaving; in all precincts, etc.)
3) Is the study assumption that Caucus states can be a "good proxy" for "paper-trail" voting states, valid? (It would have been better if they, Caucus states, had their own "study group" IMO, as those states often had their own "irregularity" issues.)
4) Is there some "other correlation" going on, between the e-machine states and local "voter preferences" that might be effecting [confounding] the study's results? (eg. Do the "closed primary" states tend to also be the e-machine states; what about blue collar vs urban predominance, vs e-machines, etc.)
The study results ARE significant, BUT other factors may also be at play here. So caution, and further study would be well advised.
BUT bottom-line: E-voting machines need a Paper Trails. If we get a receipt at the ATM -- then why No Receipt with our Votes???
Which is more valuable, in its context? Which is more in need of some serious auditing?
(When was the last time anyone got a "surprise inspection" of their e-machine code? And why in the world are these inferno 'ghost-like' machines be 'propriety'? (Could there be an easier way "to buy" an Election ...)
As I observed at the time (cc 2004) one of the e-machine programmers had some interesting statements about how insecure (ie. hackable) those 'inferno' machines really were ... are? -- (although the supporting link no longer exists [www equalccw.com/dieboldtestnotes.html] that once documented his statements):
Diebold Programmer Ken Clark,
explains in an email to a supervisor,
the numerous security problems that exist
in the Diebold Vote Counting Program GEMS
Here's summary of those known security problems:
[See: Appendix A: Excerpts from Diebold internal memos/documents]
• Alteration of GEMS data files with an unapproved product (MS-Access) is common both among Diebold staff and county elections personnel.
• Ken Clark knew about that, and deliberately avoided tightening down security to eliminate the practice because it's "handy".
• Ken admits having the ability to hack elections(!). That means somebody else in Diebold can.
• Ken knew that relying on "operating system security" was inadequate, yet suggested telling the Federal test lab that it was. [was adequate]
This all adds up to intent to defraud.
Or put more simply in terms of the Null 'Status Quo' Hypothesis of the day:
Rep Peter King said that on 2004 Election day. As the Exit Polls were coming in, and seriously starting to worry some Bush-backers, and even some Media Pundits. Funny what a little alcohol will do, to help assuage those once-scientifically 'objective' fears ...
And as far as I know, the clowns in congress have done very little in the meantime
to "over-turn" King's theory. That's one apple-cart, the Villagers en-mass fear to touch.
Must.Not.Peer into "the Black-box" ... or you'll go civicly-blind if you do.
Democracy would not survive that searing light of day ...
Nor those brave {political} scientists who dare to ask:
"Where do E-votes go when they Die?" (... or more to the point "when they are flipped?")
.
.
.
And the short Dilbert Answer is: into the 'winners' column silly, post haste.
And none's the wiser. ... It's not for nothing, it's called a "Black-box" afterall ...
Comments
Thanks a lot
for expanding on this. Much appreciated.
Steve
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Ps. re caucus states
From what I can tell, no caucus states were included in the analysis of paper trail/no paper trail state primaries. Only primary ballot state were compared to one another.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
well that is good to hear
I think I read too much into the word "supplemental" assuming it was "tacked on" ...
But those states do appear to have their own "supplemental" results.
IOW, the authors had the foresight to address one of my critiques, LOL
Thanks for the correction. Live and learn.
yw
this is a Topic, that needs much, MUCH exploration,
if our once-science-based society is to survive.
thanks SD for motivating my crude attempts,
to unravel the mysterious.
I was once told taking a survey sample, is like "taking a Temperature",
though not a universally accurate instrument of Science,
many DO find its localized results (the Thermometer's) useful.
I was hooked after that, lol.
I sent this study to my father
a retired stats PhD, Professor emeritus, and someone who worked for NAEP (Nat'l Assessment of Educational Progress) as their director of Statistics for most of 70's to 1983.
I wanted his evaluation of the methodology.
It's a short paper and well below his level of expertise, so I hope to get a quick turnaround from him on its validity, concerns, etc.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
What do you think of mail in ballots?
I don't know how the homeless vote. Maybe there is a site where they can go vote. It sure makes sense to me. You've got a built in paper trail. At some point I guess it gets digitized, but at least people don't have to get off work, stand in long lines, be questioned about their registration, and so on. Seems like it's cheaper too. Fewer polling places, workers, and machines.
I think it the Oregonians that vote this way. Any of you have complaints or see problems with mail in ballots?
“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”
The Mail in ballots
are a Paper Trail ballot, that can be physically counted,
and most likely traced back to the actual voter.
I'm not against the automation per say, just the insecurity of the current system.
I go to ATMs to get cash all the time, but I would be a lot more concerned about that without the Receipt.
I'm sure Banks have their machine code scrutinized by security experts all the time.
But does the E-Voting machine code, get the same level of scrutiny?
How often, and by whom?
jamess, statisticians, actuaries and casino
"odds makers" are sources I prefer to the "talking heads" who know little to nothing of what they speak.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
"And by whom?"
Indeed.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
re: vote by mail
Oregon has had vote by mail long enough to have good data on it. Based upon what I have read, voter fraud is no higher with vote by mail than voting in person which means it is nearly non-existent. What vote by mail does do is two things. First it makes it easier and more convenient for the voters thus increasing voter turnout. Second, it is more cost efficient to implement.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
vote by mail
is very convenient, no lines, no rush to complete,
No problems.
I've not heard any problems with Voter Fraud, with the mail-in system either (after using it for over 20 years).
You have to be a registered voter to receive a Ballot, which have to be signed when returned.
Optical Scanner machines read the ballots, the fillled-in bubbles like on SAT tests. This is a very accurate mechanical process.
So unless a person were to going to go around stealing other people's ballots, out of their Mail-boxes
and impersonate their signatures (which get checked by humans Poll workers),
committing Voter Fraud would be very hard to do, without committing other crimes as well.
The mailed-in Ballots are the paper trail.
Since it is a mechanical process, there is little if any Code to hack.
Agree, Agree, Agree
When the validity of the ballot box is destroyed we no longer live in a democracy
there should be no such thing
as a "Provisional Ballot" ...
ALL our Votes, should Count, Always.
^^^THIS!!!^^^ (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Control Variables
I apologize for my short term laziness (can't explore article just yet) but in the meantime do have a theoretical challenge to this hypothesis. A possible pitfall I see is that there might be some background factor - a control variable - that makes this relationship spurious. A potential example I give is that she might be better liked in states with the e voting which might be the southern states for all I know. I did do some checking on this online and didn't see a geographical pattern for paper voting but it seems to me that such matters are worthy of review. Personally, I think there was plenty of fraud going on, but conclusively demonstrating that it's tied to Clinton poses a real challenge. For the record, I was able to statistically demonstrate that the 2004 election was indeed stolen in Ohio leading to W's second stolen term.
Avid Agnostic
those
are some good examples of what I was
trying to address in my critique 4).
the e-machine thing could be "a red herring" ...
then again it could be everything.
How do we know until we have "Open Access"
to the e-machine code?
Free and available for all to inspect and see ...
Good for you to recognize the Looking Glass that is science
And I also think that jamess points out obvious fail points. I was awful in statistics, got a B. and I was a PhD (still am, I guess) but not in math. I was trained in genetics and molecular biology as that field blossomed. I did not learn Chi-square until I leaned punnett square. And was taught to look for exceptions and they pop up all the time.
I took a field biology course where we had to caucus about 10 variables and then measure each at every location and then derive a new hypothesis about what variables were significant and which ones were not (or less so, somenum). Always hypotheses should be stated, measured variables stated. And then run the numbers. Knowing that the hypothesis might be approached other ways with different variables measured (rain/cold/snow/heat/traffic jams/local disasters).
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
In Canada we have had a long tradition of
and of course
www.elections.ca
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
Mind you,
we don't have a ballot incredibly long either.
we just vote for our Member of Parliament, so there are at most 4-6 names on the ballot.
The party that wins the majority forms the Government.
The Prime Minister must form a Cabinet from his Government Members.
Local and municipal elections are all non-partisan. Provincial elections work much the same way as Federal elections.
Much, much simpler. Perhaps not as small-d "democratic".
But elections are totally non-partisan.
www.elections.ca
There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not know. But there are also unknown unknowns – the ones we don't know we don't know.
sounds like
a reliable and sound "democratic" system.
thanks for the details, tapu dali.
Canada, Oh Canada
Many thanks to those in Montreal and all Provinces.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
Vote by mail is my preference.
The news media and politicians would have fewer opportunities to declare victory before all the votes are counted. On the other hand, those who are homeless or "on the move" should factor into this.
Look up at the stars and not down at your feet. Try to make sense of what you see, and wonder about what makes the universe exist. Be curious. Stephen Hawking
I was told that in Riverside County, CA the machines...
....showed a printout on paper but that is retained in the machine. you do not receive anything printed to keep that shows your vote. is that a better method for electronic voting if there is at least some form of paper trail attached? i went to absentee quite some time ago when in the early aughts i decided not to trust the electronic touch screen voting machines. at some point i think they got decertified in CA and they came out with this model that prints a paper trail but it stays in the machine. it seems every county has a different method but i wonder if someone can confirm that the machines are the same model across CA that show a printout on paper. can someone else confirm this?
i've never understood why voting regulations are left to each individual state. voting should be uniform, consistent and trustworthy from state to state but it isn't.
there have been many stories
of people clicking the Touch-screens for Candidate A,
all the while the Name of Candidate B keeps displaying as their choice.
Which Name actually gets submitted as their "final answer"
is anyone's guess, without an immediate print-out, and some sort of "protest" capabilities.
Otherwise, you walk out of the Voting Place, not knowing for sure, who you really voted for.
(and those are just the "E-glitches" that people can see, to say nothing of those we don't.)
it is my understanding that you could see the printout....
...on paper inside the machine while you're at the machine so you can confirm your vote matched your choices. if they didn't then i guess you take it up with the election officer. i presume that when you end your session by pulling out the voting card the tape rolls forward to be clear and out of sight for the next voter.
that's why i'm asking about other user's experiences because i can't describe the process myself since i use it first hand. i can only rely on what i was told.
I've always like quality control in statistics
and it was apparent to me that exit polling was exactly almost the identical idea.
Elections are to votes as an assembly line is to producing widgets. They're disposable widgets, but they have to pass minimum standards. Margins of errors. If you're producing bad widgets, it needs to be stopped immediately.
But it's not the machines running out of adjustment. And really electronic scanners are mechanically 99.99% accurate, just like bar code readers. What
is screwing them up is the deliberate fraud by the elections bureaucrats. That's internal sabotage. If it were possible, I would have them immediately arrested and put on a fair trial, to expose the fraud. How long is this going to be tolerated? It's been systematic. They're the deadliest enemies of democracy. It's fascist parasites who are in most all of the state governments. I think that would stop a lot of this criminal activity, to expose the fraud in the light of a legal trail. But the oligarchy are pushing the buttons.
I am so glad we have Richard Charnin on our side to analyze the hard data..
Of course, I really am impressed with approaching election fraud from a formal hypothesis test. But it's really apparent. It's not like umbrellas are causing the rain. You know, correlation implies causation. We know this has been happening since 2000 with Bush vrs. Gore. 16 years of fraud.
I like
your Quality Control analogy, ngant17.
It fits the process in many ways,
-- well at least it should, if believed in course corrections.
On the internet, everything is forever....
The page you mentioned about the diebold machines does still exist actually and can be found here:
https://web.archive.org/web/20160201000000*/http://www.equalccw.com/dieb...
Thanks to Web Archive and their wonderful WayBack Machine!
This is such a sad time for democracy though. Or perhaps not...perhaps the votes being stolen without so much as a peep is far worse. I suppose if fraud does get proven we should thank Hillary - perhaps play it on a loop into her cell as she does LWP.
California DID inspect the Code
here's some of what they found out:
Hacking Democracy
Hacking Democracy was a 2006 HBO documentary on how elections can be stolen via hacking the voting machines. I have watched this video numerous times. Although the safeguards have improved since 2006, I believe it is still possible for someone to steal an election electronically.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7W7rHxTsH0]
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
thanks gulfgal98
this should be "must watch" viewing, for American Citizens.
How can this kind of stuff be happening in America?
(Al Gore getting -16,000 Total Votes in a precinct in Florida. That's NEGATIVE which a Minus sign.)
Before I watch, after NY
and the blatant shenanigans in Brooklyn, I was not shocked when the only upstate counties that went C were Buffalo, Syr and Rochester. Largest voter concentrations, also large PoC populations, if one believed that story. But how easy the flip a city? There should be paper ballots in some. Mine went 2:1 Bernie, as did many others, but fewer votes. Even though there may have been flipping there, too.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
hand-counting is equivalent to six-sigma
on a production line. Expect no more than a few rejects per million (votes). And that is what California is doing right now. Hand counting. Just like Canada does on every election.
This should be big news IMHO because California is showing us how to correct the defects in a production line that is wildly spitting out garbage. You have to do it the old fashioned way. We need to start taking notes, stay in touch with that process and start finding ways to implement it in our own states before Nov. 2016.
"Poll workers in Los Angeles and Orange County report that Bernie won the electronic votes in their precincts by well over a 2 to 1 margin, the opposite of the result of the vote count. The contrast between this and the outcome is indicative of vote-flipping." http://www.snopes.com/uncounted-california-ballots/
this is disturbing
The ghost of rigged elections past: New revelations on the death of Michael Connell
by Bob Fitrakis, freepress.org -- December 11, 2013
the other shoe has dropped,
and nobody noticed.
Here's more on
Cyber-Security expert turned-whistleblower, Stephen Spoonamore
How the GOP Wired Ohio's 2004 Vote Count for Bush to Win
by Steven Rosenfeld / AlterNet -- September 18, 2008
this is what happens sometimes
when you agree to turn state's evidence
The Mysterious Death of Bush's Cyber-Guru - Michael Connell
12160.info -- December 3, 2014
...
Is the GOP stealing Ohio?
Uncertified, "experimental" software patches have been installed on machines in 39 counties of the key swing state VIDEO
by Brad Friedman, salon.com -- Nov 5, 2012
Those last minute patches, total by-passed the normal State certification process,
at the request of OH SOS Kenneth Blackwell.
Unless you are a True Believer (in what I don't know)
it would seem to be a good idea to never ally with the groups in either side. Too many accidental deaths.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
the last statement I included was unconfirmed
and it should be considered inaccurate until the hand counting is finished.
But where were all the gigantic Hillary rallies prior to the California voting? The only thing I saw where the thousands at the Sanders events in S. Calif. If she was so wildly popular, beating Bernie by 2-1 there, why no publicized events?