It's all I can do to discipline myself not to leave Dem party tonight
Submitted by vl baker on Mon, 06/06/2016 - 8:58pm
My plan is to remain in Dem party if Bernie is nominee (I still have hope!). But if he isn't this lifetime Democrat will leave the party.
I've been waiting for the convention to see what happens but tonight after this bullshit fake coronation from the MSM it's all I can do to keep from changing my party id online right this minute.
Okay, I've calmed down a bit (Thanks for listening to this rant!)
I will wait for convention. I think a mass deregistration from the Dem party would be more effective on day after convention, if it comes to that.
Are you with me?
Comments
Left 'em a long time ago.
Felt good.
I will feel good too!
If Bernie is not the nominee, I will leave the Dem party after decades. Then I will feel good like you do, too!
This is the whole problem...
Politics isn't about doing "feel good" gestures.
It's hard fucking work, if you care enough to make a difference. It takes persistence, and dealing with losing, because losing happens.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
I have a legitimate reason to feel good
I was "born" a Democrat and my father was active in the Democratic party for decades, when it was still the party of FDR. The first campaign I worked for was McGovern in 1972. I have donated $$ to Democrats, walked many precincts, and poll watched during elections. I will continue to support progressive Democrats at the national, state, and local level. However, I will no longer blindly pledge allegiance to the Democratic party. Why should I? The Democratic party left me. When they get back to their FDR roots, they will get my vote more often. In the meantime, if Bernie is not the nominee, I will vote for Jill Stein and send the Democratic party a message. Age has its prerogatives.
yes, but being from Texas we can't really un-register.
We go into the primary voting place and ask for either a democratic or republican ballot, and then we get put on a list as a democrat or a republican voter.
We need to get busy party building so that there is some other party to vote for next year.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
Do you understand what that means?
There are 537 elected federal offices (President, Vice President, 435 US House Members, 100 Senators). There are more than 87,000 local and state governments constituting more than 511,000 offices. Admittedly, the Democratic Party has stopped being competitive in races in a lot of those federal districts and also in a depressing number of state and local governments. But, the party machinery is already in place.
We don't have to try to find and qualify hundreds of thousands of candidates (1 for every 20 people who have voted for Bernie Sanders). We don't have to raise hundreds of millions of dollars to run hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of races. We just need to keep pushing the Party leftward.
This is always what Bernie had in mind. Believe me, they were pretty surprised they did this well. If you believe in Sanders, if you believe in the cause and the effort, then you must understand this was just the beginning. If Sanders thought that a 3rd Party/Independent candidacy was viable, he would have done that. He had more sense than that. Most of the voters who vote in Presidential Election day vote for Democratic candidates. Why would you want to try and beat Republicans and Democrats?
You can't create a serious 3rd party in htis country. Maybe, you can set up and qualify an independent to run for President, if you have the right person and start early enough ot qualify in 50+ states. But you won't win, and even if you did, what would be the point? The Congress will still be made up of Democrats and Repubicans. How do you govern if you don't have your own majority? Having the next FDR as President owuld be great, but federal legislation doesn't originate with the President. It's the Congress that does that. The Tea Party didn't take over the GOP and push it so far right by walking away when John McCain won the nomination. They did it by working in the GOP. That's the model to emulate.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
The Tea Party was a media creation...
created to sell a false narrative which let the Republicans get away with what they were already doing, FASTER.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Thanks for ignoring my whole argument
But, since you focused on one sentence, I'll engage. It wasn't a media creation -- it was created by conservative groups to feed to the media. And, it became the proverbial Frankenstein monster. They set a force in motion that has become a phenomenon independent of the operatives who invented the conceit. It isn't an actual party or even a caucus --- but it does have a life of its own among voters, and it brought down Boehner and numerous other candidates before him. And, it's paralyzed the GOP with fear of those voters.
Representing the 99% at the Dem Nat'l Convention in Philly.
Yeah, terrified in the sense of...
"Please, Brer Fox! Don't Throw me into the Briar Patch!"
And isn't it amazing how they cower in fear, forced, FORCED I tell you to vote for corporate giveaways, regressive social policies and everything else that's part of their party platform.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Conservative groups set up the media?
CLINTON telecommunications act: and yes, they are conservative: they have been successful at destroying this party from within: and with the help of a lot of very corrupt narcissists whom they likely recruited.
She will close down sites like this, just as she and others have closed down any meaningful discussion.
Climate Change has been known for decades: and the Clintons facilitated the offshoring of over 50% of our nation's wealth.
You figure out what their plan is: seems pretty obvious to me.
Not quite.
The Tea Party started as a loud mouth group of RW voters. The corporate media paid a little yellow press attention to them. Then the oligarchs followed.
We Progressives, Lefties, etc. have the numbers. The People support our issues. We have to stay focused and together. The Bernster is proving that this is so. BTW, let the voters vote today! The informed ones know the corruption is there.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
The Tea Party
was Glenn Beck's sponsors: Koch bros. others who "hate government".
The Tea Party
was Glenn Beck's sponsors: Koch bros. others who "hate government".
Exactly, why make it harder than it needs to be
The Democratic Party is already there with a presence in every state and every county. It would be easier for a dedicated movement of progressives (like Bernie's supporters) to run for committee member positions in every county and state Democratic Party branch, than to create a whole new political party from the ground up with such an extensive presence across the country. Obviously this would require massive coordination on a national scale, but it is doable if the people remain persistent.
Wouldn't it be great if we could turn the Democratic Party into a progressive activist anti-establishment party? We can do it if we kick out the corporate and lobbyist Democrats (i.e. the Republicrats).
Love is my religion.
The only problem with your plan is that we progressives
and radicals have been trying to do just that for 45 years now and here's the result: the party is now further to the right than it's ever been.
At some point progressives will need to take a look at the strategy and take a realistic look at the results of that strategy. The present corrupt is the result of that strategy. In other words: it isn't working.
There's an old saying about trying the same thing over and over and over again and expecting different results.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
On the flip side,
there have also been attempts at third-parties throughout our country's history and none of those have been particularly successful either.
Perhaps the problem is how well coordinated and executed those efforts were? We could make use of technology and software to help coordinate such an effort across the 3100 counties and 50 states. Who knows, if Bernie lends his support to such an effort, and gets the movement behind it, it might be more successful than previous attempts. As it is, what he has already accomplished is quite remarkable.
I don't know enough myself, as I am relatively new to politics. I was briefly involved with the Dennis Kucinich campaign in 2003-04 (couldn't vote though as I was on a Green Card at the time) but got jaded for a long time after that. I was naturalized in 2009 and was only involved in politics to the extent of voting. But Bernie brought me back in.
I have been giving it a lot of thought. I am not asking to make nice with the corruptocrats. Rather, I'm saying that we need to kick them out of their positions in the party. Is that something that can be done? I would like to think so.
Love is my religion.
Won't change Democratic party if Clintons in power
Only way to change the Democratic party is to get rid of the Clintons. If they lose, they can still keep their Crooked Foundation & all their money ( if not indicted, and convicted)
Short term loss - we get a Republican POTUS.
Agree with Susan Sarandon - less dangerous than the Clintons.
The corruption in the Democratic Party
goes beyond just the Clintons, in my opinion. Even if they lose now, the entire establishment seems to be corrupt, interested in maintaining the status quo and keeping the gravy train running. Tomorrow, some other corrupt Democrat is going to rise up. We need to root out the system of corruption in the Democratic Party, somehow.
Love is my religion.
Wow! I guess I've been told!
It isn't for you to tell us what we can and cannot do. Nor what which options we can and cannot discuss.
Our political options are few, and now you would like to limit them to only one: working within the Democratic Party. And apparently you would like to stop us from even discussing other political options by yelling at us that we don't know what party-building involves, and insisting that Bernie has more sense than to entertain such a silly notion as a third party.
Working within the Dem party is one option, building a third party is another, working within an already existing third party is another. I'm speaking of political options here. We also have the option of activism, along with or instead of political action.
You will find that c99 is a place where all options can be discussed and ranting at people open to discussing options is not appreciated.
Every party ever built started somewhere. And no one ever said it would be easy.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
are you going to do this again?
Are you going to chase FF out of here the way you chased TomP out last week?
You are so mischaracterizing what FF "told" us. He said nothing about trying to stop anyone from discussing anything, and he wasn't "yelling" at anyone. He was expressed his own opinion about what is possible, probable, and preferable. His comment was well-thought out, entirely polite, and hardly qualifies as a rant. To the contrary, it was a succinct executive summary of why it is his opinion that the third-party gambit is not the way to go. What is the point of asserting that this "is a place where all options can be discussed", if it is done in the same figurative breath as telling someone to stop discussing what he perceives to be the weaknesses in your preferred option?
I happen to agree with FF, and to the extent that I contribute any analysis of electoral strategy at c99p, I will always be advocating for a hostile take-back of the Democratic Party.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Instead of fighting about this,
I suggest that those who want a hostile takeover of the Democratic party work up a plan for doing that, with a strategy and tactics and defined goals and objectives. When creating this plan, keep an eye on what has already been tried and whether it worked or not. (You will obviously need to define what "success" means to you so you can decide whether various strategies or tactics have "worked.") Any good plan would probably also include an analysis of the enemy's strengths and weaknesses--and, again obviously, a clear definition of who this enemy is.
When you have this written up, bring it back here so it can be examined by the people here on its merits, and people can then decide whether they want to continue to try to take the Democratic party over or not.
I'm guessing that at the two meetings in Chicago and Philadelphia, people on my side of this issue are going to be engaging in a parallel process. We might engage in one here, too, if we don't decide to despair.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
The conundrum on the left always seems to be the
endless splintering over both ideology and tactics.
Since the explicit mission of c99p is to focus on issues, I suggest that the best way to keep people from tearing each other apart over tactics is for the Go Greens to have their conversations about how to do that, the Carpe Democrats to have their conversations about how to do that, and the Bake from Scratchers to have their conversations about how to do that, and we all leave each other alone. And when a site neophyte walks into a Go Greens conversation and tells them they've got the wrong approach, instead of exploding with hostility, they direct him to some fixed-in-place meta-essay that lays out the philosophies of the three camps, with links to some foundational essays for each.
And I suggest that as a community we figure out how to that PDQ. If we bog down in endless bickering about why one tactic is the One True Way, we'll soon enough find ourselves balkanizing on the issues conversation, and the next thing we know, we've got the Progressive Front of America sitting over there by himself while the American People's Progressive Front sits over here, snarling dismissively.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Excellent suggestion.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Oh that's rich, I "chased" TomP out of here.
Tom is a big boy and if he can't take some push back on his attempt to limit discussion to only one or two options, then that's his problem.
And yes, implying that people stupidly don't understand how difficult it is to build a 3rd party, or that all attempts to do so are futile, or that Bernie Sanders has so much better sense than to attempt such a thing.. all of these are attempts to limit discussion rather than to carry on a discussion. And I will always push back on that.
What FF said was:
Yes we do, we're not stupid, most of us have been activists for a very very long time.
Extreme naysaying..in other words: give up and go back to doing what's always been done and has never worked.
And of course this appeal to an authority figure:
And yes, implying that people stupidly don't understand how difficult it is to build a 3rd party, or that all attempts to do so are futile, or that Our Leader, Bernie Sanders, has so much better sense than to attempt such a thing.. all of these are attempts to limit discussion rather than to carry on a discussion. And I will always push back on that.
Actually it wasn't FF who made a good case for working within the Democratic Party, it was FunLovingProgressive. And not only made a case for that strategy, but outlined a strategy for how to do it.
Problem is that case has been made and that strategy has been attempted over and over and over again for the past (at least) 45 years. I know because I was right there in the thick of it. And we all can see the result: the Democratic Party is further to the right and more corrupt than it's ever been.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
JayRaye...
I asked FischFry to tone it down last night now I'm asking the same of you. I know this is a tough time and emotions are high but please tone it down.
Yes, TomP is a big boy, and as a big boy he decided he
wasn't interested in being a figurative punching bag for your residual GOS anger and resentment. So he left.
When you are simultaneously trying to organize a mass political movement, and somebody bails on your project because they perceive your rhetorical approach to be abusive and/or irrational, that is your problem. There's a big difference between "pushing back" versus telling somebody to get the fuck out of here, which is effectively what you told TomP, and very nearly what you have now told FF.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
oh my, I had no idea that I was so incredibly powerful
as a working woman that a lawyer would flee the site because I strongly disagreed with his view that our options are narrow and must be kept narrow!!
And your attempts at psychoanalysis are hilarious. You don't know me so please cease with your efforts to Shrink me down. And even if you did know me, the whole playing shrink thing is completely unnecessary.
I will continue to push back on the idea that we must only consider a few limited possible paths forward. We left TOP because only a few limited options were up for discussion. Keeping those options limited is not why we are here.
Now for me to tell someone that I will not accept that our options are narrowed to a very few that are acceptable to even discuss is not the same as telling anyone to get the fuck out, and if they take it that way then that is their choice.
The blaming and shaming game that you are playing here will not work with me. Blaming and shaming is a way of trying to shut someone up. Many have tried to shut me up in various ways, no-one has ever succeeded.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
Hey, I admit, I don't know the source of your
irritability -- I was just guessing, because sometimes it seems to be couched in terms of "This isn't TOP, and that doesn't fly here."
I do not think that one needs to be "incredibly powerful" to drive someone off of a website. It's not exactly hard. One needn't be powerful, but only unpleasant. Most people have innumerable options about where to hang out, and most people try to avoid unpleasant company, virtual or otherwise.
As for me, you can rant and rail and accuse me all you like ("blame and shame game", yeah, whatever), because I, in fact, don't give a flying fuck whether you like me or hate me or think I'm evil incarnate or your personal nemesis or anything else, but some people probably do, and I'd rather not see them all bug out in the first 10 minutes they're here just because they make the mistake of disagreeing with you before they learn to avoid you.
In any case, this is exactly the last time I'll bother you regarding your manner or your philosophy. Go about your business as you will, and I will go about mine. I doubt there'll be much opportunity for overlap, and I'm certain I will sidestep it when there is.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
Timing
I think this is a question of TIMING
"If Sanders thought that a 3rd Party/Independent candidacy was viable, he would have done that. He had more sense than that."
We might ask the question now, " If Bernie had any idea of the response he'd get, would he campaign as an Independent, and then get on the ballot in 50 states?" Probably. He's said he entered as a Democrat because of the existing structure, and to be taken "seriously."
Now - it seems there are MILLIONS of people READY and willing to start a Third Party. Eager. Willing to fund it, and volunteer.
probably not worth discussing but IMO TomP was thin skinned
and either misunderstood what was being said or perhaps....well, I hate to sound too critical but...perhaps he umm...trying to be polite about this....perhaps he overestimates....oh heck...he's got a bit of a swelled head.
I do think he saw disagreement here as the same thing as what goes on over there....which it's not. Rather than ask and try to straighten out the discussion, you know, to understand what was being said, he huffed out. Nobody chased him out. He just went.
There are multiple potential options
and I think it's important to have a discussion about the pros and cons of each, and to come up with different strategies. Some people will go for the third-party approach and some will go with the working to reform the Democratic Party approach. I think it's perfectly valid for the progressive movement to do both. Those interested in a third-party approach go with that, and those interested in reforming the Democratic Party go with that.
There will be tremendous challenges in both the approaches but I will hold off on talking about those for now.
Love is my religion.
Actually, building a third-party is the best solution
No one thinks its going to be easy. But a two-party system is always going to be dysfunctional, which is why many of our founding fathers either didn't want parties at all or feared only a two-party system.
Once the Democrats became the party of corporations, and the republicans became the party of religious corporations, we have every reason and need to have another party that actually works for the needs of the people.
It's not impossible, it's just not easy.
I'm fine with people who want to work within the Democratic Party. I think its a waste of time, but I also think it would be great if they succeeded. But there's no reason for us to continue to be limited to two parties. Plenty of other democracies have multiple party systems, and they work just fine.
How has pushing the party leftward been working these last 40 years?
Well, there is a third option
IMHO. The Democratic party is too far gone. It has been bought out by the oligarchs and converted into a slightly kinder (superficially) version of the Wall Street loving Republican party.
However, there are other parties out there that perhaps might provide a good framework for merging the lost souls of the current Democratic party into their numbers and thus creating a new party. This is exactly what Jill Stein was advocating when she offered Bernie the top of the ticket at the Green Party.
With 43% of voters now Independent and many of them under the age of 40, we should be looking to them (the younger voters) to help create a party that would meet their needs since they are the future. Maybe I am being overly optimistic, but I see this as a very good option moving forward.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
True - if the Greens would welcome the influx of people
and also welcome the organizational prowess of the Sander's machine. Because the Green's lack organization. Their platform is great, but their organization is terrible.
However, I plan to vote for Jill in my state if the crown Hillary, and I'd be happy to work within their party if they are open to growing and becoming a little more centralized and organized, because I think it's necessary to have SOME amount of centralized control - it doesn't have to be heavy handed, but the state parties do need to work together on national issues.
This is the plan that I endorse at the moment, altho
my point is that there has not been enuf of a discussion yet on the full range of options to narrow it down to only one option.
My opinion of the Greens is that the party is too narrow in membership and in focus and needs to be broadened by reaching out to other groups and 3rd party movements. It looks like Jill is already beginning that process which is a good thing.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
My god, thank you--
"there has not been enuf of a discussion yet on the full range of options to narrow it down to only one option."
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I'm in favor of taking both the approaches
One group works to form a new third-party or strengthen an existing one, like the Green Party. The other group works to change the Democratic Party and also works to implement electoral reforms, such as Instant Runoff Voting or something similar that eliminates the so-called 'spoiler' votes.
Love is my religion.
We have a party it just doesn't have a name yet.
It's the same party that gave hundreds of millions of dollars to Bernie in small donations and the same party that will give hundreds of millions of dollars to Jill Stein in small donations if Bernie is not the nominee.
Beware the bullshit factories.
It has a name
it's called the People's Party.
Because it is. It belongs to all of us.
That's good...
The People's Party -- Because someone has to look out for 99% of us.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
You can't create a third party, eh?
Well, that has been true in the past. But neither major party has ever nominated two such ghastly repulsive individuals as it looks like we're going to get this year (absent the indictment of Clinton).
Throw out the rule book in times like this.
I'm voting Green this year and I suspect I won't be alone.
Even the smallest person can change the course of the future
Indeed there HAVE been successful third parties in the past
The deal was, they didn't stay third parties - they took over for and displaced one of the extant two parties which failed.
Heck, that's why we've had a Republican Party for the last 162 years - the Whig Party failed, and the Republican party surged into the breach. It happened very fast, too: a mere six years from formation to successful election of a President.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
It will need a mass exodus from the Democratic Party
to the new party for the third-party to succeed in this way. Perhaps if the Democratic Party simply collapses somehow... I dunno. Or perhaps if someone like Bernie leads a mass movement to do that.
Love is my religion.
Believe me I would, but
my state, like Vermont, does not have party registrations. I certainly hope anyone who can joins you in a mass exodus the day after the convention.
Meanwhile, efforts need to be doubled, tripled, quadrupled to get at least one new party off the ground as well as getting the people Sanders' endorsed (sans HRC if he does that) elected in November.
I might have a drink tonight. It has been about six months since the last one.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
A drink sounds good right now! Any vegan drink will do! n.t
LOL, I had to go check to see
if there was such a thing. I learned something new today. Thank you. = ) The only thing I have on hand is a bottle of Canadian whiskey. I guess it will just have to do.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Half a bottle...
already consumed. Over three hours.
Gallon bottle? O.o
Blessings to everyone who indulges tonight, but remember we need to continue the good fight again tomorrow.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
MN also does not have a political party affiliation listed...
... on voter registration forms.
I've always considered myself a Democrat, but the Democratic party that I thought I belonged to left me decades ago.
Ergo, like our ancestors in MN who voted for people best qualified for office, not for anyone from any political party (which also never used to be listed on ballots), I have no political affiliation as long as I can't claim to be a Democrat any longer because of what the national party has done to us.
If/When the Democratic party goes back to having some kind of moral and ethical standards that actually mean something, like doing what is best for ALL people on whatever issues currently in existence or which will arise, then I can call myself a Democrat and mean it. Now I can fake it and say I'm a Democrat, but without conviction as long as our Democratic "leaders" are kissing corporate, banking, and war asses.
I believe in an America where the separation of church and state is absolute ..., where no church or church school is granted any public funds or political preference. — President John F. Kennedy, Houston, TX, 12 September 1960
This version of a reanimated Democratic Party is
only approved for adult audiences:
[video:https://youtu.be/6NOcRIHiRtc]
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Let's make it a group effort
Just how many do you think we could gather for one huge migration from the Democratic Party? I am done with the Dems as a party after this go round.
the plan online is to leave Dem party day after convention
if Bernie is not nominee. Everybody together!
I'm in for that plan n/t
That is my plan. I'm in.
That is all...
Nice! I was already planning that myself. :)
I hope it doesn't come to it, but if it does I hope the mass de-registration numbers are huge.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Yep - that's my plan too.
I am desperate to switch, it feels dirty to still be affiliated with them, but I wanted to hold out until the convention, for some reason. I'm not sure it matters, but it still feels right to do it that day.
I'm waiting till August so I can vote Grayson over Murphy.
Then I'm out of the Dem party. They will never, as a group, get my money or effort again. I will support individual candidates that meet my expectations but I'm not participating in their pretend democratic party.
There is nothing which I dread so much as a division of the republic into two great parties.. This...is to be dreaded as the greatest political evil under our Constitution.--John Adams
same here (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Oh, yeah, thanks for the reminder
Florida has another primary in August, I'd forgotten about that. Guess I'll change after I vote--that's definitely going to happen--I, too, feel quite slimed, even having that card in my wallet right now...
That will be the day I give my first donation to Jill Stein.
First of many donations.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Yup, I am right there with you guys!
In Wisconsin, I can't remember if there is party affiliation or not, quite frankly. I filled out my voter reg form at a REALLY big Bernie celebration with over 600 people in attendance, so I was a little distracted.
But I did have to officially register with the Democratic Party here in the state to belong to the Dems and I even had to pay $25.00 to join. That's the yearly fee, and it's also the first time I've ever had to pay to be a Democrat before. It kind of sucked.
Does anyone else have to do that? I've never heard of that before, man. Stupid Wisconsin.
In any case, the day after the Democratic convention in Philly -- assuming Bernie Sanders is not the nominee -- I am un-registering as a Democrat, goddamnit!
Screw this fucking bullshit primary and screw the Democratic Party! Grr.
I miss Colorado.
I was going to switch after my Bernie vote today
but I like the en masse plan if he doesn't get the nom at the convention. I'm in!
Sounds like a boycott
I'm not a democrat but if I was I'd be all in.
Told ya. :-)
Just happened a lot faster than I thought it would.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
i've been
done with the dem party since shortly after the WI primary... i just haven't had any reason to be at the courthouse yet.
next time there are elections, i'll be an independent.
GIANT ALL-CAPS SIG
Yeah, I'm there too
I was an Independent for years. I have always been left of the Democrats, but voted for them in local and State elections. I finally registered to vote fin primaries for Gore and then Governor Napolitano here in Az.
Given what the Democratic Party has dished up this election in particular, I've decided to revert back to Indy. I will still vote for local and State Dems (those not blue dogs that is) but intend to abstain from voting for any Presidential primary election again. I also intend to abstain this General for the Presidential ticket. I never voted for Bill and I'm sure as hell not voting for Hillary.
What I do intend to do is continue fighting for the solutions Bernie has outlined to so many of this countries problems. I simply no longer see the Democratic party as having anything to do whatsoever with the solution. The Democratic party has become a significant part of the problem.
Green Party is on the ballot in AZ
You do have the option in AZ of voting for Jill Stein (Green Party) for president this year -- assuming that Bernie doesn't get the Dem nomination. So, I'll put in my pitch for you to NOT abstain in the presidential GE but vote Green. I did it here in AZ in 2012, and it felt great.
I was an indie who re-registered as Dem to vote for Bernie in the "presidential preference election," but I'm going to stay Dem until after the primary in August, so I can influence who will be running against McSally in my congressional district. Since we have an open primary law, I could go back to indie, and still request a Dem ballot in that primary, but with all the voter suppression and other crap that has gone one here, I think it's safer to wait. Then, I will happily go back to being a left-wing independent in AZ.
blaze
There is no justice in America, but it is the fight for justice that sustains you.
--Amiri Baraka
Mass Deregistration...
is what the party has been doing to its own membership all primary.
Why they think all these deregistered Dems will suddenly come flocking back for the general is something only David Brock can explain.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Maybe based on patterns from previous election?
There is evidence that Democratic Leaning Independents are slightly more reliable general election voters than weak Democrats. I think it's a huge mistake to assume that previous patterns will hold for this election, but that might be what they are thinking. If it does, then that might also buy them some time going forward. I'm not saying that I think this was planned all along. I don't think anyone actually plans a cascading butt monkey apocalypse such as this. When one occurs, it's usually the result of another plan that has gone awry. That said, I assume their goal at this point is to keep progressives divided between Democratic and Independent status as they move toward more closed primaries.
How much can we adapt? My political affiliation is you and all of the other people who have come together for this campaign. I am currently registered as a Democrat, but I will go wherever progressives put their numbers. We can make a play for the party or we can start something new. I suppose our choices will become more obvious once we see how the dust settles from all of this, but I'm with this movement no matter what.
Obvious home
is with the Green Party which is now in quite a number of states and could be gotten in others.
It will take organization and $$, but they are pretty far along and our concerns are the same.
The Greens need some organizational help, though.
I'd be okay with building their party, but they seem kind of disorganized. I understand their idea behind no central hierarchy, but some kind of central organization within reason does have a place.
They really should be further along by now. They should be in all 50 states.
The Libertarians are on the ballot in all 50 states - if they could do it, why haven't the Greens?
you still don't see the man behind the curtain?
please read my essay just posted
An idea is not responsible for who happens to be carrying it at the time. It stands or it falls on its own merits.
Go after the media.
Drop cable. They want to anoint candidates each cycle. Then it is time for them to go.
Going after their advertisers tends to work even better.
We need a FlushRush style campaign against the MSM.
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
Yep - I already have canceled my cable.
Haven't missed it. We hadn't watched anything on cable for almost a year, and I finally realized it was ridiculous to keep paying for it.
We cut the cord
over six years ago and other than some sports events, we have not missed it. When I visit my mother and see what is on, I remember now why I have not missed it. As a plus, it is a lot quieter here without the tv. We do check out movies and watch them and every year, I buy an on-line subscription to watch the Tour de France which is my guilty pleasure.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
cable tv is like dial up
Going the way of the dodo.
Why pay for a bunch of crap that you don't want with a large monthly fee when you can just stream and pay for what you want?
Even the smallest person can change the course of the future
This is shameful.
They were heavily rumored to be about to announce this tomorrow before the votes were done.
Instead, they decided that since everybody knew what they were going to do anyway...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Might suppress the vote in CA
so she doesn't go to the convention with egg on her face. I hope Sanders people come out in droves as a protest vote for what they are trying to do.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I expect a LOT of dirty tricks tomorrow.
Knowing California, I expect polling places to be changed in poor neighborhoods, Hillary and Bill to block polling locations in middle class areas, and votes to count triple in any areas where corporate slime sleep at night.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I wouldn't be surprised at all if there was
an electricity black out tomorrow. Hell, at the rate this election has gone, I wouldn't even be surprised to see drones over head.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Don't give them any ideas :0 n/t
But only in the likely Bernie neighborhoods. eom
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I can tell you NJ
And CA are Very enthusiastic for Bernie. Maybe this is about NJ not just CA.
I wasn't holding much hope for NJ
as the polls that we are being allowed to see have not given much. Plus, someone here told me that NJ was pretty much the same as NY in the way it would vote. I prefer your version. = )
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
NJ will be rigged
Just like NY. Read between the lines of what Bernie says. That is why he has focused on Cali. And the internal polls on CA are what is driving this unprecedented coordinated political and media blitz to suppress the vote there.
"You can't just leave those who created the problem in charge of the solution."---Tyree Scott
Election Justice USA
and the polling data is the thing I want to see come out of California. Official counts are not to be trusted anymore.
Election Justice seems to have picked up the mantle that corporate media dropped last month in May 06. Hopefully they have enough funds to hire the unemployed exit pollsters which were laid off by Edison.
However, since there are large numbers of mail-in votes in this state, there should also be reasonable access to data for sampling this group, too.
I have no hope for Jersey.
They voted for Christie twice -- with the endorsement from elected dems.
As President Dewey often said
marry in haste and repent at leisure.
But seriously, this has me wondering if we're fighting something a lot bigger than the Clinton machine.
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I think
you are starting to come around.
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