Without question Trump is evil, but...
Clinton vs. Trump. Which is the lesser Evil?
When I've weighed the downside risks of each of these choices, Hillary stands out as the far greater risk of the two.
With either candidate, absolutely nothing is going to be done to improve the economic welfare of average Americans and the Oligarchy will continue to grow and prosper. Hillary will only call for things like an increased minimum wage if she feels it is necessary for her to do so, politically, but will give up quickly when the expected opposition is launched by Republicans, which is what her plan has been all along.
The scariest things Trump has proposed---the Wall, deportations, bans on Muslims, going after black people---will never occur because they require new legislation that will have to overcome the strong opposition of not only Democrats, but also lots of Republicans and the corporate media (which does not support his racist appeals).
They were positions that helped him get nominated (since nearly all of the politically active racists in this country have been in the Republican party for quite a while now) but on a national level, he'll find that he can't muster up the support he needs to get his crazy ideas enacted into law. Because of his massive ego, he'll begin to modify his rhetoric to optimize his popularity.
But the scariest things Hillary has demonstrated an appetite for will not require the consent of Congress at all. She'll quickly jump at the chance to send American troops into overseas conflicts and try to give the generals all the military hardware they want to expand America's policeman role on the world stage.
With her 'No Fly Zone' proposal last October vs. Russia, she's already shown that she is quite willing to risk nuclear war because she trusts the advice and the 'lucky feelings' of the NeoCon brain trust and the most hawkish elements of the Officer Corps.
The last time this country followed their instincts/advice, we killed over 100,000 Iraqi civilians (conservative est.) maimed tens of thousands of American soldiers, and threw away $3 trillion of our nation's treasure on a 'noble cause' that ultimately created our present problem with ISIS.
I fully expect that Hillary will quickly ratchet up the rhetoric against Russia, increasing tensions dramatically and that she'll start deploying our military forces in ways that the Russians are certain to find very threatening.
Even the simpleton mass murderer George W. Bush was not foolish enough to pick a fight with Russian or China, but high-stakes gambler Hillary Clinton has already shown that she is quite willing to go there.
So the question of which of the two Evils I need to worry about the most has been thoroughly answered by Hillary Clinton. When I've compared the risks of a Trump Presidency vs. a Clinton Presidency, it's not even close. There's so much more we stand to lose if we take a chance on Hillary.
That is why I will be voting for Trump---a man I regard as political scum---if it looks at all close in November between the two. I never thought I'd see the day, but then I never thought I'd see the day when a Democrat was more scary to me than the Republican alternative.
Comments
2016 is a sad year.
We the people have been rewarded (punished?) with the two worst presidential candidates in history. There really is no lesser of two evils this year. There is only evil or evil. Clinton has a record of hawkish, neocon behavior (see: Libya, Yemen, Syria, Iran ...). Trump has a record of buffoonish, semi-isolationist statements.
I can't vote for either one, but I agree with your sentiment that Clinton is the one to be most afraid of. She's the one that will be busily fighting wars to show what a tough gal she is and to establish her legacy as the first and toughest woman president.
Lesser Evil is still evil.
And I fully expect the Handlers to be called in if somehow Trump pulls it off.
Standard operating procedure, probably the same speech every president gets... Only with Trump, they'll make it very clear that his Running mate is only a Heartbeat away...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
But Trump won't have a 100% complicit congress which
HRC will have. The Republicans will probably impeach her while at the same time passing her agenda as it is theirs. We have history to show us how this works (cf Bill Clinton).
If Trump's ego and narcissism are as bad as everyone claims, good luck with those handlers.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Trump is the lesser of evils for the reasons you state.
Trump has been compared to the anti-trade, isolationist Pat Buchanan. I can handle that, but I can't hand handle squandering lives and treasure to further enrich her fat and gorged friends.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
damn
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
A different way to frame it ...
Recently, I read a blog comment at Naked Capitalism that has stuck with me. Instead of asking which one is the lesser of two evils, ask which one is the less EFFECTIVE of the two evils. To my mind, Trump is the less EFFECTIVE, hands down. Hillary is all TOO effective ... in all the wrong ways. Although I refuse to vote for either of them (I intend to vote for Jill Stein), I'll take 4 years of Trump any day over 8 years of the Hildabeast.
"Long term: first the rich get mean, then the poor get mean, and the rest is history." My brother Rob.
You speak for me
As a Hawaii voter, I'm planning to vote for Jill Stein. That's a vote for Jill and a vote against Hillary. I think there is a good chance that many progressives in Hawaii are going to vote for Jill. More than enough to cause Hillary to lose the election to Trump. I'll vote Jill as long as it looks like Hillary will lose. If it looks close or if Hillary looks like she might win, I'll vote Trump. I want to cast a vote for a candidate,but to keep the warmonger out of office, I'll hold my nose one more time.
If Hillary somehow wins, the republicans are going to simply blackmail her It will be quite easy, support our policies or we are going to impeach you. If you don't see the republicans move quickly on impeachment, you'll know Hillary decided to go along with whatever they wanted. I have no reason to believe that she would fight against them. After all, their policies are her policies.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
That pretty much says it for me...
James Kroeger
Vote your values, not your fears.
Ever since I turned 21 in 1968 (and registered with Peace & Freedom to help get them on the ballot in California), I've always without exception voted for those who are closest to my own anarchist-Marxist (both Groucho and Karl) politics. Consequently nobody I vote for ever wins, but what the hell, at least I'm sending some sort of message. And at this point, it's all about sending a message and not giving an inch.
Heh, worked in that P&F registration drive myself.
You know what? Dick Gregory would really have been a damn fine President, too.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
As they say,
you vote for it, you own it.
I think if it came down to it I would rather own Two inept
orange clowns than one head of a criminal syndicate that has a global reach.
I don't want anyone that cackles with obvious glee at the death of someone in such a brutal manner with her finger on the button.
Neither would be my choice, but if it came down to one or the other it is a pretty easy call for me.
I'll vote for the one that didn't fuck me out of a primary over the one that did.
And quite frankly I'll probably feel quite a bit of this towards the DNC while doing it.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6gEjxzsVAE4]
"I used to vote Republican & Democrat, I also used to shit my pants. Eventually I got smart enough to stop doing both things." -Me
This
The scariest things Trump has proposed---the Wall, deportations, bans on Muslims, going after black people---will never occur because they require new legislation that will have to overcome the strong opposition of not only Democrats, but also lots of Republicans and the corporate media (which does not support his racist appeals).
(Sorry, James, I don't know how to make your words blue.)
I want to point out, after listening to Cornel West, that these scary things that Trump is proposing are all already in effect.
1. We now have quite an impressive wall with Mexico.
2. More deportations under Obama than ever before.
3.No-fly lists abound in Muslim-sounding names. It's much harder for Muslim refugees than others. Muslims are daily mistreated on our streets.
4. Our current criminal justice system is well-known to go after Blacks in many ways: financially, with incarceration, and outright killing.
As a continuation of Bill's & Obama's administrations, I don't see that Hilary will do anything but further our current state with regard to these 4 issues. Ok, now can someone explain to me how much worse anything Trump could do as pres will be?
Blue text
Use the blockquote tag or the quote icon above the edit box.
HTH
We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg
Over on FB, the Clinton email timeline investigation folk
of whom I am a member, is currently having an existential crisis related to this. Should "we" continue to look for Clinton connections that show her true colors in the face of a Trump candidacy? For some reason, I have taken on the role of a kind crone, dispensing advice to bolting colts and fillies, some of whom are grandparents. And, with others , suggesting either of the other 2 candidates running.
Back, brush fires on FB. Investigation of the hydra will continue. I think. I hesitate to tell what I am suggesting as recourse.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Hydra cannot be defeated
Cut off one head, two more will take its place.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
Paging Iolaus. Dr. Iolaus to the emergency room...
We have a very sick patient in need of treatment.
(Sorry about the Classical Reference. Could NOT resist)
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Unless you seal off the headless neck
with fire. All the mythical monsters had some flaw that be could exploited to kill them...as did the heroes.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Hillary's flaw?
A narcissist's greatest vulnerability is their need for narcissistic supply. Removing a narcissist's supply -- taking away the mirror in which they experience and adore themselves -- is not a task for the faint of heart. When the narcissist perceives their source of supply diminishing, they will use every trick in the book to get it back: tantrums, blaming, shaming, intimidating, triangulating, wheedling, gaslighting, emotional blackmail, etc. (Sounds kind of familiar, doesn't it?)
"Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep ... Don't go back to sleep."
~Rumi
"If you want revolution, be it."
~Caitlin Johnstone
So why not
vote for Jill Stein?
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
Indeed,
if voting for anyone but Hillary or no one=vote for Trump, then voting for Jill seems the best way to vote for Trump without actually voting for Trump.
This shit is bananas.
Are you aware that conservatives/Republicans
say that a vote for Stein is a vote for Hillary? It looks like the answer may not be so clear.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
If so, a Stein vote is an affront to both sides, how nice!
That vote then is better than "neither of the above" should either Trump or Clinton make it through to November. Given results of 2016 so far, neither may be the end result. We are in unbroken trail territory now. I hope there is time for history books to be re-written about Campaigns 2016.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
The analysis of which is the lesser evil is sound
However, why vote for the evil? I would rather vote for the greater good.
And, perhaps even more important (to me) is the breaking of this awful two party system. So I support the rise of a viable third party...this is the best chance I have seen in my lifetime. I think it's a worthy goal, to confound the system that makes this year's election possible again and again.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
All of my best wisdom comes from fiction works :)
The protagonist is having a discussion with a dog (a dog with some genetic enhancements). When asked what the dog meant by evil the reply was:
That always seemed like a pretty workable definition to me. So then.... if I apply that definition to any of the contenders including Sanders what I come up with is various fairly serious levels of evil. I always anticipated that we'd need to protest strongly if Sanders won to stop him from random acts of aggression. Hillary, however, has clearly demonstrated an eagerness to bomb some brown people. That's some next-level evil there. I'm not convinced that even Trump, despite all his bluster, is actually eager to slaughter hundreds of thousands of innocent people.
A lot of wanderers in the U.S. political desert recognize that all the duopoly has to offer is a choice of mirages. Come, let us trudge towards empty expanse of sand #1, littered with the bleached bones of Deaniacs and Hope and Changers.
-- lotlizard
Fiction is philosophy in a mask that won't get the author shot.
At least nowadays. No publisher will touch an "Important" book, unless it's got the face of some talking head plastered on it.
Fiction is where the true Philosophers of modern life live. And in Comedy, but the Media seems to have gotten wise to that particular one, and floods the market with garbage to dilute the effect.
I worry for the day that execs actually start reading again...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
"At least nowadays. "
It's been that way for a very long time.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I agree with most of what you said.
I was reading an article over at Counterpunch that stated:
This shit has been going on for more than 50 years, and and some point we have to stop doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. I believe it is time to start voting for the greater good, not the lesser evil, and that is why I am voting for Jill Stein.
As a Wisconsin resident
I already am living a worse than Trump scenario. Scott Walker is literally worse (farther to the right and more hawkish, and more racist) than Trump. So little would change in my state if Trump were elected. As an ecologist and environmentalist the absolute worst thing in my book about Trump is his anti-environmental stance, global warming denialism and willingness to draw his cabinet from the fossil fuel industry. That is a huge strike against Trump and reason enough not to vote for him for me. Of course Hillary is in the pocket of big Fossil (and the other two legs, Big Finance and Big War of the Triumvirate of Evil as well). Voting for either for me is a nonstarter. So Jill Stein it is.
And this picture sums it all up about Hillary.
Not a whole huge difference between her and Scott Walker, except for the fact that Scott Walker uses the citizens of Wisconsin for his extractive exploitation, while Hillary used Haitians.
Haitians, Hondurans, Lybians, Syrians and -ians abound
Really, "we" should just stop it. Poor Cuba is in the bullseye now, too.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.