So, I wanna start a Co-Op.

But I have no idea how to go about it. So, I'm asking for some advice on Co-Ops from those who know.

Here's the tentative plan.

I know a lot of wannabee craftsmen/blacksmiths who want to work but are stuck paying a couple hundred dollars a day at LEAST for forge time because we have no space that's available. The Idea is to pool resources, get a workspace and a communal set of tools.

Ideally, the plan is to start with a single, basic forge and work our way up as more and more people want access to the workspace. Ideally we'll eventually have a kiln, materials area, Pottery wheels, woodworking tools and multiple other workspaces for people to come in, work and share knowledge. Aim is Non-Profit, all the way. If we can do it as an "Educational" space, so much the better. The idea is essentially that a practicum/dojo style environment for materials working is a viable and unmet need. As it is, the vast majority of things of that nature are run for profit/day care of unruly teens. Very little actual learning goes on.

The great thing about this is that much of the later tools and materials can be made BY the co-op rather than needing to be purchased. The goal is to keep financial outlay by the members to the absolute minimum possible, I know we'll probably have to offer a service, but the advantage is that anything we sell we would be making ANYWAY, so... bonus.

So, Tips? I've been glancing at the City of Portland rules on Co-ops, and they don't look TOO bad. Annual meetings, etc, and unfortunately you're considered a "Corporation". Ugh. I'm putting it in the charter that the Co-op cannot outlive all of the founders. I'm hoping that folks might have a few tips, because the last thing I want to worry about is paperwork when I want to be learning and teaching.

[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68cNng4ihLM]

Share
up
0 users have voted.

Comments

Pricknick's picture

The only thing better then a co-op is a free barter system.
It combines the individual skills with the outsourcing that groups can do. Very few in my area could use a forge vs many in my area who need vegetables. As a plus, we all teach others of our skills. I happen to provide the medicinal ability of marijuana. I'm also a retired residential construction builder and fixer. Endless possibilities to teach and trade.
I admire your want to start a collective of like minded individuals. It's where good things start.
Best of luck on your adventure.

up
0 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

detroitmechworks's picture

@Pricknick I want to have a chance to practice and not pay thousands for the opportunity. Smile

But yeah, I have so many different interests that individually making a workspace for each of them would bankrupt me in short order. And since I can't use them all at once...

Seriously though, I just like the idea of having a set of tools that people can use to make their own, and a space where people can go to practice just making things in a fun and respectful environment.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Pricknick's picture

@detroitmechworks @detroitmechworks
that are interested in what you wish to do?
If not, craigslist is a good format to look for others. Or you could go to the new generation standby and faceplant.
Just asking around (if you're not shy) at the places you frequent can be a goldmine of old and new contacts.
You're so far away yet I could barter with you.
[video:https://youtu.be/UofYl3dataU]

up
0 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

detroitmechworks's picture

@Pricknick which is why this came up.

Only problem is that none of us have any experience with this. I know I'm going to have to do a lot of research.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Hawkfish's picture

In the 1990s. My buddy and I set up a coop software consulting company, but it was for profit and in Washington. But here is some advice that may be useful.

First of all, incorporate. You live in the most litigious society in history. You may trust your friends with your life but there are plenty of other people who are outside the group who might sue you for just about anything (e.g. screwing up the neighborhood aura or some such crap). But if you have a “corporate veil” they can only go after the corporate assets. Which will be relatively small

I don’t know about Oregon corporate structures but in Washington the state coop structure is called a T-corp. It required you to keep track of every member forever and keep paying dividends, which is a huge PITA. So instead we went for a S-corp with custom bylaws. (FWIW LLCs were brand new back then and our lawyers were nervous about using an untried structure but it’s a lot different now.)

The point of these bylaws was to deal with this “founders equity” problem. We took all profit out of the business every year and distributed it to shareholders. All employees were equal shareholders and buying in was not onerous because the equity was kept low. This is roughly how the Mondragon coop movement solved this problem, except that we didn’t have a coop bank (just regular ones.)

You are not doing this for profit, but you might be more successful than you realize in other ways, so making it so people can enter and leave without destroying the whole thing might be worth thinking about.

As for cost, lawyers do this all the time, so it’s not too bad ($1000 for us). But it will cost something, and you should shop/ask around for people who have done something like this before. (And they will probably give you better advice than some me dude on a web site!)

Anyway, good luck with this! Work is a joyful thing if you control the environment - even if the work is just for you. And in my experience, the people who work with joy are the ones worth knowing.

up
0 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

detroitmechworks's picture

@Hawkfish we're going to need noise reduction if we're anywhere near human habitation.

So yeah, need to make sure that membership doesn't convey ownership. (Again, I'm thinking the Dojo/Exercise Studio paradigm. Might not be a bad model to START with, since it has worked well for maintaining non-profits for over a hundred years.) I think as long as we keep the emphasis on low/low profit things, the vast majority of lawyers won't be interested.

(Rule One for Lawyers: Never Sue Flat Broke People)

I greatly appreciate the advice and hopes. At least now I have a general direction.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

janis b's picture

Possibly this might help. I imagine step four is the most difficult

Step four - the money
Whatever a co-operative is doing, and whoever the members are, it's likely to require some form of cash injection to allow the business to function and grow before it generates a profit for the members. This cash injection can come from a variety of sources. Often members will invest some of their own money in the business to get it off the ground. Where money is being raised from local residents this might be small sums from each person. Where the employees are the members, this could be larger sums. In addition, most co-operatives will get a business loan to help them put money into the business and some may also be eligible for start-up grants.

I hope you find a way to realise your wish.

up
0 users have voted.
Pricknick's picture

@janis b
is not an issue in the barter system.

up
0 users have voted.

Regardless of the path in life I chose, I realize it's always forward, never straight.

janis b's picture

@Pricknick

fairer, and mutually more productive. Grants may be the second best possibility.

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@janis b I know they do offer grants for veteran therapy organizations. I know for a fact that crafting things makes me feel better, so maybe I can sell it.

(Although it would be easier if I spoke bullshit fluently.)

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Hawkfish's picture

@Pricknick

I’ve been reading “Debt: The First 5000 Years” and barter almost never happens at scale. Instead what usually happens before money is inflicted on everyone (generally to support the anonymous kinds of transactions required for warfare) is credit. In Medieval English villages, everyone would then get together once a year and settle accounts and straighten out any small disparities.

But yes, money is almost literally the root of all evil, and poisonous to community life.

up
0 users have voted.

We can’t save the world by playing by the rules, because the rules have to be changed.
- Greta Thunberg

Lookout's picture

The Creative Metal Arts Guild is a not-for-profit organization of metal artists who share a common passion for learning, creation, innovation and community. We rely on our volunteer members – artists, makers, metalsmiths, jewelers, sculptors, hobbyists, business owners – to propel each other’s work forward.
https://cmaguild.org/
Our third-Tuesday meetings are held starting at 7 pm at:
Multnomah Arts Center
7688 SW Capitol Hwy
Portland, OR 97219
guild@cmaguild.org

There are grants and resources to create co-ops perhaps these resources would be helpful...

To find out more about existing co-ops, or to get resources on how to start a co-op or convert an existing conventional business to a worker-owned or democratic workplace, contact the US Federation of Worker Cooperatives, a national grassroots membership group of and for democratic workplaces. We have resources and information available for the public. Another great way to get information is to contact co-op businesses in your area and talk to them about how they work.

United States Federation of Worker Cooperatives
The United States Federation of Worker Cooperatives envisions a democratic society in
which workers are in control of the management, governance and
ownership of their places of work. The mission of the United States Federation of Worker
Cooperatives is to create stable and empowering jobs and worker-ownership through the
development of a thriving cooperative movement. We advance worker-owned, -managed,
and -governed workplaces through cooperative education, advocacy and development.
www.usworker.coop * info@usworker.coop * (415) 379-920
https://usworker.coop/home-3/

Here's several resources that might help...
https://community-wealth.org/content/worker-cooperatives-toolbox

Good luck with your project!

up
0 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

detroitmechworks's picture

@Lookout Looks like CMAG doesn't actually have a space and is more of a Jeweler's club. But wouldn't hurt to ask them for some ideas.

Checking out the coop links now. Thank you again!

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

EdMass's picture

My son is one.

They have created many coops in tony towns from Woodstock VT to San Antonio TX and other vacation spots that have storefronts showcasing their creations.

They share in the revenues through the store. They contribute their time to man the store. They also maintain their individual operations/web sites/Etsy stores etc.

It aint perfect but it provides a floor to build off of.

FYI, my son was an artistic blacksmith until he blew his shoulder out pounding on anvils.

Check him out at www.jonblackstudio.com

up
0 users have voted.

Prof: Nancy! I’m going to Greece!
Nancy: And swim the English Channel?
Prof: No. No. To ancient Greece where burning Sapho stood beside the wine dark sea. Wa de do da! Nancy, I’ve invented a time machine!

Firesign Theater

Stop the War!

detroitmechworks's picture

@EdMass It was also mentioned to me that I might want to ask my Dojo, since they function as a non-profit corporation subsidiary of a Japanese non-profit corporation. (At least for ideas on how to set it up and maintain it. )

I mean, the DREAM is to have something similar to an old style blacksmith shop, but open to members who want to work. Ideally we would want something with at least some foot traffic. (Honestly the DREAM place to have it would have both indoor and outdoor working areas, just for weather in the PDX area.)

As mentioned above the local Jeweler's group seems to be more of a social group than a shared workspace, but it's definitely worth looking into.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

studentofearth's picture

Start talking to landlords/realtor and an insurance agent to get an idea on fixed costs simply to maintain a space. You can ask before the legal entity is set-up. Sometimes the space helps define the legal organization because of discount eligibility. Also, some contracts requires a personal guarantee regardless of the entity and who is the volunteer.

Some funding sources are only available to very specific types of corporations. If you do not have the funds to bootstrap would look at funding sources before setting up an organization. It is wasted money to do it twice.

up
0 users have voted.

Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

A quick search turned up lots of them in/near Portland. They're more for diy hobbyists, but you might get some ideas from them.
A legal cya sounds like a really good idea. Plus the therapeutic slant.
I don't know how suitable it might be for your work, but I've used a torch for heat (gotta watch the carburizing), and a piece of rr rail (hard & tough steel) for an anvil, plus homemade hammers. I've also seen a small forge made from a brake drum and an air pump. Apologies if I'm telling you what you already know.
There's a successful food coop/supermarket that's been running near DC for 50 years. They might be able to share some tips. https://glut.org/mission/
I think there are some other long-running coops around there, too.
I love hammering hot steel, haven't done it in ages. Good luck!

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@pindar's revenge It's modeled not on the Dojo model, but rather on the "Health Club" model. There are a LOT of those around here and the costs add up quickly. (Public access requires long term commitments, etc... very little joy and a lot of obligation. You're looking at least a grand before you lay hammer on steel.) In addition there's NO ownership, company store policy for materials half the time (Only approved sources, etc...)

Of course, I am sure online they will tell you completely differently, about their glowing reviews, etc... I find that there's a LOT of con artists everywhere these days, and crafting is no different. Capitalism is doing what it can to ruin a lot. Breaking away from a profit motive as much as possible is the goal.

But yes, I've been reading a lot of books, so your tips are familiar. I find that there's a ton of things that certain books mention that other's don't. Like any art there's a TON of techniques to learn, which would be better enhanced by a Dojo style rather than the current "Project" paradigm, which really limits the learning, IMHO.

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks @detroitmechworks
I've bee trying to get media outlets to write about how easy it is to cut through a "sleet slat". "Slat" makes it sound thin, but it would have to be on the order of inch thick, or some structural shape like channel, to do any good at all. Wapo did an analysis from Rump's silly sketches and concluded 10"x1" bar, with gaps to the next.

A weldor with a cheap portable cutting torch could cut through that in a minute.

I don't have a torch or easy access to steel, and I'm not on zuckbook or tooter, but maybe someone with the skill (doesn't call for much) and materials could put up something to go viral in no time. Whaddaya think?

Sorry about the OT, but you came to mind as the star of the video. Bright light, lots of sparks, dramatic.

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@pindar's revenge I'd also want to know what steel Trump thinks we're going to be using.

If he wants to save money and do it cheap, there won't be many sparks. Low carbon, unhardened steel doesn't throw too many sparks.

Actually there's another angle that could be done. Do the DRAMATIC one, then when they claim that border patrol would see it and show it do a demonstration with the Metallurgical correct ones and a couple blankets to show how easy the light would be to hide... What are they going to do, ban cutting torches and blankets? (I may not want to give them ideas. I remember what happened to spray paint...)

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks

that almost all construction uses doesn't throw many sparks from grinding, but when you heat it then light it up with the oxygen blast from a cutting torch it's fourthajuly. The iron itself burns at that temp in high oxygen, you see a brilliant spray of burning iron. Beautiful, and dangerous; I have the scars to show. It's no challenge to cut through many inches of steel. It doesn't take much practice to develop some skill, but a really skilled burner can flush damaged 1" bolts out of threaded holes without damaging the threads. Look up ship-breaking, where scrappers cut ships into little pieces. I'm rusty (snicker), but I'd give an estimate of about a minute to cut that "wall". And yeah, a piece of canvas would go far to hiding it.

He doesn't know anything about materials or physical reality other than farting on the golden toilet (nor his advisors. Hear that, Miller?). He pays people.

Several companies offer compact sets of cutting torches that cost a few hundred bucks. They're portable, with small bottles. The smuggler/coyote could be there and through before there's time to react, especially if they do a couple decoys, then abandon the gear and run.

Dear Yenisei: I have no intentions in these regards, it's just blindingly obvious to any weldor.

On another note: concrete releases enormous amounts of CO2 during manufacture. We're talking major climate impact if he goes with concrete.

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@pindar's revenge Needs more detail, and I Wrote it assuming that grinding would be similar to cutting. (I am still a novice, but eager to learn, and totally willing to admit when I'm wrong.)

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

@detroitmechworks

I didn't intend to, but this brought back a lot of vivid old memories.

Any fab shop or ornamental iron shop would have the torch, just get a chunk of 1" bar or plate (scrapyard?), practice on some smaller pieces to get the timing right, and tape a show. Be dramatic to clamp 6' of thick bar in a vise pointing up and watch it topple. When it's almost through, the hot corner will start bending fast, so it would be smart to tilt the rig so it bends away from you. Protect your feet very well. Burning flesh smells like roast pork.

up
0 users have voted.
detroitmechworks's picture

@pindar's revenge I'm former Artillery. I'm very sure to be very aware of where hot things are at any given time.

I can do some basic cutting with an angle grinder, but I Haven't used the torch. (Funny, that would be HILARIOUS to learn onscreen. Have somebody give me exactly how long the lesson is needed to learn to use it to CUT with... Just that. (Yes, I would be making a point about how it's not necessary to be incredibly intelligent to learn how to beat a stupid plan. You just have to learn enough to beat the other guy.)

up
0 users have voted.

I do not pretend I know what I do not know.