Signal Wave

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Just a few words today. I had a different topic in mind--got some things to say about whether or not the independent left should work with the "populist right"--but there's a bit of unfinished business from last week.

There are several people here who feel that this site now belongs to those with one set of beliefs. There are probably people on both sides of the COVID issue who feel that way. It wouldn't surprise me.

I don't own the site or run it (obviously), but I was involved, intimately, in the founding of it. There's probably only one or two people here that pre-date my involvement with the project. I was the one who recruited many of the site's most constant participants.

If the site has become the property of people with one set of beliefs, then the project I worked on has come to an end. I won't say failed, because to run a site based on the values of intellectual honesty, free expression, and civility even for a little while, much less years, is not a failure but an astounding success, given what's happening all around us--and why it's happening. A word about what's happening and why: where most people out in the world, or at least in our country, see simple, organic truths (people holding beliefs because, well, they just do), what I see are engineered constructs, narratives powered by a truly unholy amount of money. The elites of the English-speaking world, having finished their military and economic conquest of at least half the world, have now set their minds to finishing their conquest of that half the world's cultures. They had already made a partial conquest of American culture because there was no other way for them to complete their economic and military conquest of half the world. If you want more details of how this went down, reading the Powell memo is a good start. You can find it on the Greenpeace site, here:

https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/democracy/the-lewis-powell-memo-a-corpora...

Now that they have achieved their economic and military goals, they are backtracking to make sure that their dominance is absolute. As the Powell memo shows, the elites are very much aware of the importance of culture to any scheme for dominating others, and they know from bitter experience that the American people are capable of using their culture, faulty though it has always been, to resist totalitarianism. In fact, the only way to ensure absolute control over any society is to control the imagination; to create a situation where only certain ideas are conceivable, or, failing that, to create a narrative slaughterhouse that corrals any new ideas into pens before rendering them into a hamburger status quo.

Sadly for us, you can't eradicate or change a culture without digging into people's brains, because that's where cultures reside. In fact, cultures exist most powerfully not in the conscious mind, but in the shadowy, half-conscious place where you find a person's fundamental assumptions, rarely questioned.

That's bad for us, because it means that this conquest requires the invasion of our most private selves, the manipulation of both our conscious and our half-conscious minds (I don't talk about the unconscious, because I see that as pretty damned unknowable, and leave it to professional psychologists and philosophers). That's why so much money is being spent on the 24/7 noise machine. That's why social media is so heavily infiltrated with paid manipulators. That's why "internet influencers" is a job and why "perception management" is an industry. We are being manipulated now at an incredibly private and detailed level, because the only world left to conquer--aside from a few rival nuclear superpowers--is our minds.

The elites' conquest of culture is now interfering with people's ability to converse with one another and have personal relationships. Dead totalitarians must be spinning in their graves with envy. They did the best they could with radio, but radio ain't social media.

We've been in a particularly ugly phase of that conquest since 2016, because large swaths of resistant people became, instead, The Resistance. Yet the advent of Trump and the launching of a new political paradigm (where you prove your left-wing bonafides by embracing right-wing ideas and politicians, and get attacked as right-wing if you maintain your left-wing principles) was apparently insufficient to hammer people's minds into the shapes the elites desired. There were still too many stragglers. The making of a plague into a partisan political object gave them the larger hammer they needed. Few people will remain untouched by a narrative driven by the fear of horrible death.

Here's what I believe: I think that the relationships on this site are worth more than any political position we could take. They are our treasure. We would do well not to allow them to be taken from us by the elites. The fact that they're using a narrative that we can no longer ignore (since it impacts our survival) doesn't mean we should abandon our principles, the principal of which is our mutual respect. I believe that no decent goal can be accomplished if it's founded on disrespect or intolerance of dissent. Even if we believe that our fellows are extraordinarily wrong, to their own detriment and ours, we must respect their right to be wrong. Whatever our fears, whether they be agonizing death from disease or the destruction of our liberty by an authoritarian government, they do not justify attacking one another--not when we are all under such a profound and ubiquitous attack.

I do not believe that JtC wishes anybody to feel like they have no place here. He has said multiple times that he does not wish this site to be univocal, ideologically or otherwise. But if anyone feels, because of the way they have been treated in conversations here, that the site has no place for you, please feel free to come into my Open Thread and express yourself. My Open Thread, as long as it lasts, will never be run under any principles other than those endorsed, once upon a time, by Harold Laski and Ed Murrow:

The Senator charged that Professor Harold Laski, a British scholar and politician, dedicated the book to me. That's true. He is dead. He was a socialist -- I am not. He was one of those civilized individuals who did not insist upon agreement with his political principles as a pre-condition for conversation or friendship.

Anyone considering leaving this site because you feel the site has no place for those with your views, please feel welcome in this Open Thread. I would greatly prefer not to lose you. And I hope that, if you feel mistreated here in this OT, that you will send me a private message. God knows I don't relish taking on moderation duties, but if that's what it takes to keep people here, conversing, I most certainly will.

I end with the words of Thomas Jefferson, because even a man who does bad things can have a good idea:

I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

How are you all doing today?

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

QMS's picture

Thanks for keeping an open dialogue alive!

A blast from the past ..

Cheers!

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@QMS

We may be a small site, but what we've got here is exceedingly rare and, I think, precious.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@QMS

I'd heard of the band "Love," but I'd never heard their stuff.

Aren't they another Laurel Canyon band?

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5 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal as a very young youngster, I would hear their music on the radio but never caught on to the name of the group making the music, which I only learned of yrs later.

Turns out the founder of the group, Arthur Lee, who called himself the World's First Hippie, had started one of the first successful multi-racial bands. But he was very fearful of flying, so when the group scored some hits and would normally go out on the road to strike when the iron was hot, he was only able to take the band on bus around California. This likely was the main reason the group didn't became more well known.

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dystopian's picture

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal These guys were big as the Doors in L.A., to the locals. HUGE following, they were played all the time on the radio. Everyone loved Arthur Lee, and Love. Whilst at a song, check the sidebar out on youtube for them, a bunch of outstanding music. They lived in the house in Griffith Park (where L.A. Zoo and Observatory is) in L.A. for a while. Hence the song a home is not a hotel - check it out. There is a live version with Jools Holland of Alone Again Or at utube that is awesome... some Euro TV thing. Also the vids of Glastonbury 2006 I think it was, Arthur Lee did a few of his hits... world class great.

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3 users have voted.

We cannot solve our problems with the same thinking we used when we created them.
Look deep into nature, and then you will understand everything better.
both - Albert Einstein

Doing just fine here in NYC.

Your warm generous comments on courtesy is appreciated. We do not all agree on all the facets of the Covid controvery, but I for one want to examine all sides of it closely. Good manners are helpful and that includes not only words themselves (name calling) but smugness that is unpleasant also.

None of us can claim that we know it all. It's ridiculous to act as though we do. And even more ridiculous to hand out advice. I do not include advice on longstanding health practices. I mean telling people whether or not they should get vaccinated or allow their kids to be vaccinated. That is where individual choice needs to be respected.

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The Southwest Airlines and others joining in on sickouts, the Kellogg's strike, the IATSE 73,000 movie and TV set workforce strike, are forming a new and welcome feature of our barely reported upon and acknowledged news agenda.

Is a general strike what comes next? Maybe. gjohnsit has mentioned one on October 15.

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NYCVG

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@NYCVG

In a book I read once, there's a caste of people who specialize in courtesy and etiquette. A man asks one of them if every civilization has its own rules of courtesy. She says "Yes, because the civilizations that don't have one don't survive long enough to become civilizations."

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6 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Lookout's picture

Trade day was very busy today...lots of vendors, but all I bought was 4 lemons.

Perhaps I've missed something because I've not heard anyone say they are leaving the site. However, I will suggest that if you propose an idea, you need some source to support those views, or make it clear it is your opinion.

Sometimes we have to agree to disagree, and that's okay. I would add, you DON'T have to respond to every comment which differs from your view. Just accept that on that topic you see things differently. Typically the world isn't black nor white, but some shade of gray. Thinking and speaking in absolutes usually is in error.

Tolerance goes a long way to solving confrontations, IMO.

I'm grateful to JtC and the community for the open minded, evidence based nature of the site. We are lucky to have each other in these dystopian times.

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Lookout

from the set of beliefs I hope we all *do* share: rationalism, honesty, free expression, and civility:

However, I will suggest that if you propose an idea, you need some source to support those views, or make it clear it is your opinion.

And the following is WONDERFUL advice:

I would add, you DON'T have to respond to every comment which differs from your view. Just accept that on that topic you see things differently.

Words to live by, IMO.

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10 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

to balance the content of this site, as you seem to be calling for, is to start censoring and banning members. The day that happens is the day I walk away and c99 goes with me.

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Granma's picture

@JtC I did not hear any request for balancing or censoring. I just heard a call for tolerance of others' viewpoints.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Granma

I'm about as anti-authoritarian as you can get without actually being an anarchist.

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11 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@JtC

that what I'm advocating for is censorship?

I quoted Edward R. Murrow, from his response to Joe McCarthy.

I am absolutely opposed to any censorship beyond the traditional yelling "Fire!" in a crowded theater.

I'm not "calling for" the site to be anything except that I would like people to stay here and treat one another with respect and keep conversing.

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13 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
I removed this OT from the front page because of this:

https://caucus99percent.com/content/new-front-page-guidelines

Don't know why you thought you were exempt. A mistake maybe? I didn't promote my own OT from last Friday because it was tangentially about covid 19.

https://caucus99percent.com/content/restoring-humanity-humanity-open-thr...

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@JtC

I don't think I'm exempt from anything. Why would I?

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8 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
the adjoining The Dose OT, let me know so an alternate arrangement can be made.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@JtC

any more OTs that touch on COVID in any way. In fact, I didn't want to focus on COVID in this essay, since it is, for me, somewhat beside the point. It doesn't matter what topic is causing division, not to me anyway--not unless we want to analyze how the topic is part of a psy-op.

So it won't be an issue again. Sorry that I messed that up.

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7 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@JtC , but I am mistaken often enough to understand that this may be one of those times.

Banning people? NO is my answer to that.

I have not seen anything that rises to a level requiring such a harsh response.

Be a little nicer, kinder, and develop some humility if you suspect you might be lacking in that area, are my ideas.

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5 users have voted.

NYCVG

to which you are referring?
I honestly do not know what you are talking about, but if it is some concern out there among site members with whom you are communicating that a COVID vax position runs counter to theirs, I hope you will remind them that all essays about COVID are readily identifiable, and easy to avoid.

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Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@on the cusp

aside from the set of beliefs that we all share that combines rationalism, honesty, free expression, and civility. I hope everybody shares that one set of beliefs. That's the set of beliefs that creates a space for a diversity of beliefs.

But in specific, yes, of course I was talking about COVID. And I neither want one view to rule them all, nor do I want JtC to create some sort of artificial "balance." For the very sensible reason that such artifice would not be *real*.

Fake "balance" is just as atrocious, and, as JtC points out, relies as much on censorship, as the establishment of one super-narrative. I've never advocated for either.

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5 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal but not an answer to the question. Exactly what is the one set of beliefs some members are saying are "owning" the site?
Since any information that cautions vaccines is considered misinformation and censored, I think having a platform to allow discussion and information contrary to the FDA and CDC is a beautiful thing. Maybe the consternation of the vaccinated is to the degree they will not tolerate discussion? If they leave, there goes the natural, not artificial, balance. Just as censoring vaccine skeptics also leads to the same end.
I am obviously tired of the snide remarks back and forth, but that is strictly upon the individual insult hurler, not a part of the site rules, and is a violation of the only rule here, which is not to insult another member.
Today, I offer up 8 wills into probate. Of those 8, one decedent died from COVID. One died from adverse effects of the Vax. So, in real life, as we discuss beliefs on the site, I will be helping people agonized by this pandemic get through the toughest day they will ever have in a courtroom. There will be no lectures, no arguments, just lifelong regrets by the survivors on what they could have done differently if they had known.
So, please people, share what you have come to know through your research.
Focus on education, not on refusing to educate the otherwise ignorant.
And do it with all due respect.

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Raggedy Ann's picture

A million thanks for this very thoughtful essay. I especially like what you explained to otc:

In principle, any one set of beliefs,aside from the set of beliefs that we all share that combines rationalism, honesty, free expression, and civility. I hope everybody shares that one set of beliefs. That's the set of beliefs that creates a space for a diversity of beliefs.

But in specific, yes, of course I was talking about COVID. And I neither want one view to rule them all, nor do I want JtC to create some sort of artificial "balance." For the very sensible reason that such artifice would not be *real*.

Fake "balance" is just as atrocious, and, as JtC points out, relies as much on censorship, as the establishment of one super-narrative. I've never advocated for either.
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Let's be real - speak your truth and respect other's truth because everyone has their own truth.

Enjoy your day! Pleasantry

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@Raggedy Ann

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4 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

Raggedy Ann's picture

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"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

mimi's picture

In my life experience so far the meanest assholes express themselves very civilized and polite. So I developed a healthy amount of doubt about civil behavior and polite expressions.

Just my 0.02 cents.

I good heart and a loving soul shines through any talk, imo.

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6 users have voted.

mimi

I was the "owner" of a message board during the Shrub Era. Once I learned from experience that the members of the board would claim that I was "controlling the discourse," I stepped down from my position of "power" but continued as a rank and file member until 2017. I also posted at Democratic Underground for a couple of Shrub years and I have dabbled on probably another half dozen boards.

What holds a board together long term (unless the board is "funded"), is the social dimension. People get to know each other. Our board, like most, maintained more than a dozen separate forums including The Lounge -- where politics and controversy were banned. It had by far the most traffic of any forum and it engendered dozens of real life meetups, including three with myself involved.

Then, as now, I was not particularly interested in the social aspect. But I have a profound respect for other people's habit of making friends online. It is one of the things that make life worth living.

As a relative newcomer and a jaded veteran of the Message Board Wars, I find the format here both fascinating and frustrating. Since there is no lounge and no kicking of threads, there is no way to conduct a long conversation. Nor can you to chat about personal matters without posting on substantive threads.

The format has obviously worked well for the members of this board as you all have a distinctive style and there are many pleasant exchanges between friends embedded within heavy political discussion. Just because I am not looking for that kind of interaction, it does not mean that I do not respect it and understand that it pretty much the raison d'etre of the board.

So I can empathize with JtC's frustration. The current social, political and medical crisis is unlike any message board topic since Al Gore invented the Internet. September 11, the War on Terror, Katrina, the Bush Crash, Hope and Change Disappointment, Climate Catastrophe, Donald Trump, Tax Cuts and More Tax Cuts -- all the heavy topics of conversation until this epidemic involved abstractions for all but tiny slices of humanity. Even the horrors of an overheating planet are isolated to small chunks of humanity -- most recently the hurricane that dumped some gadzillion gallons of the Gulf of Mexico on the Mississippi Delta and New York City -- and they last only a few days and seriously harm no more than a few percentage points of the population.

Even the pandemic itself has so far created about 45 million "cases" in the US -- well below 15% of the population. All but a tiny slice of those cases have NOT led to serious illness or death.

But mandatory vaccination affects everybody. It is a binary question -- do you favor or oppose forcing people to get THIS new therapy that did not exist a year ago? Since there will be booster shots and there is no hint of how this could ever end, even the currently vaccinated will have to get more shots indefinitely if this campaign of coercion continues unabated.

That is why it is impossible for this community to keep its same level of detachment and "objectivity" that you have enjoyed for several years. I am not a part of any of this and I am tired of Internet Friendship -- but I absolutely respect the desire to keep your community and your collective identity.

I think that JtC's approach is reasonable and I have no better suggestion to offer -- even though I do not "support" it. I have no say in how he does his business.

I disagree with how this question has been posed. There is not just one covid issue and there are more than two sides to each and every one of them. How did it start? How does it spread? Is there any natural immunity? How much do masks help to prevent contagion? How much does social distancing help to prevent contagion? And so on. For the first 15 months of the upheaval, a huge slice of the material on this board was "scientific" analysis of those questions. Yesterday I saw a beautiful put down of this kind of Message Board Science -- people are not trying to have a rational discussion, they want to show how much they know.

None of that should blow up a board and did not come close to doing so. This crisis that brought JtC out in the open was a result of the vaccine question changing from how good the jab was to forcing everybody to take it while ordering everybody to shut up about their opposition.

That leap from chaos to totalitarianism might even be the least bad option for humanity now -- but that is why this board got so negative so quickly.
.
.

This is about the various labor disputes brewing around the country, including:
.

the IATSE 73,000 movie and TV set workforce strike,

.
.

IATSE is the union I just quit rather than submit to interference in my personal health care regimen. I worked for one of its craft "locals" with national jurisdiction for just under 13 years. The current movie negotiations involve 40,000 employees, more than 95% freelance. Roughly 25,000 of those members work regularly. That still makes it a huge bargaining unit, just not 73,000.

In the first place, the one thing you can be sure of is that IATSE is not challenging mandatory vaccination. They have already agreed with the industry to do so in a separate negotiation that involved all the Hollywood unions -- SAG-AFTRA, the Directors Guild, The Writers Guild and the Teamsters.

You should be aware that IATSE is not on strike as of today and is unlikely ever to go on strike. The vote to "authorize" a strike was the result of concerted "mobilization" by the paid staff of the 13 craft locals. The details of the negotiation are under air tight embargo. Not even the paid staff is allowed to know what is at stake. All anybody but "the committee" knows is that the two sides are still trying to reach an agreement.

This is not nefarious. (Assuming I do not get banned, I will be posting things that our unions do that I do find nefarious, but embargoing the details of ongoing negotiation is not one of them. Perhaps unwise and probably unnecessary, but there is a plausible rationale for it.)

But it does not mean that there will be a strike. The odds right now are about 1000 to 1 that there will be a settlement, probably today. Those members did vote almost unanimously to authorize the strike, but they did not know what they would be striking for.

IATSE has never gone on strike against the Motion Picture Industry. They really do not even know how to go on strike.

All that said, I agree with the basic thrust of NYCVG's point -- people are getting restless and the best place to start a pushback is with work stoppages. There are similar actions that can be taken as well.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@fire with fire

This may seem like an odd thing to respond to out of everything you said, but I really like the idea of a lounge.

Perhaps my OT could become that Lounge. Thinking about it...

BTW, what did you mean by "kicking of threads?"

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6 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal
.

For all of the other boards on which I have posted, when you add a post to a thread, the thread goes to the top of the forum. Here, newer threads show up above what you post, and usually within two or three days, that thread is already on Page Two and in a few weeks it goes too far down to find easily.

In the other format, often posters will approve of a thread and post nothing more than "Kicked and Recommended." This "kicks" that thread to the top of the chart. We had threads that wound up going on for more than a year -- the Travon Martin case, for example finally had over a thousand posts and it did not fell off the front page of the "Current Events" at any time during that year.

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I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@fire with fire

Interesting. I'm not sure I've been on a board that runs that way before.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

@fire with fire with CSTM' gratitude that you answered so thoroughly.

All I know about IATSE was learned a very long time ago when I worked, briefly, on an NBC Children's TV show. I recall the long hours and hard labor involved.

You are right---my bigger point was that I am seeing some awareness and awakening regarding direct action.

A trillion Man/Woman's March has become another staple of Kabuki Political Theater and is imho---not worth much if change is what you seek.

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NYCVG

enhydra lutris's picture

things buried within your column but I think that we could say that civility and mutual respect are the keys that will keep us and this place together. Each new repeat of some putative "fact", of any kind, about anything, should never be used as grounds to snidely insult the intelligence of those who are not believers of said fact, even if it is something seemingly as well established as the fact that the earth orbits the sun and not vice-versa. That is hard to sustain but we all have to police our own selves in this regard. It isn't self-censorship in any meaningful sense because the insults, open or implied, are not meaningful content.

Next up we have this tangled ball of string:

There are several people here who feel that this site now belongs to those with one set of beliefs. There are probably people on both sides of the COVID issue who feel that way. It wouldn't surprise me.

People feel or believe that those who have different beliefs of some topic or topic outnumber them. So 1) A belief about the beliefs of the quasi-polity herein. Beliefs are like circulatory systems, we all have them. If anybody feels that their beliefs are in the minority based on the published opinions and assertions AND find this problematic they can always publish their own opinions and assertions to balance things out. They can also just relax, remember that we live in times of vast uncertainty and that, on some far off day we may (or may not) find out the truth. They can also remember that we are connected to the internet, wherein memes are repeated and recycled endlessly without really changing the knowledge base or the number of those holding the opinions embedded in said memes. 275,000,000 retweets of endless variations of "Trump won" doesn't really mean that 275,000,000 people think that, it just means that twitter is a relatively unreliable source of information.

Lookout suggested

that if you propose an idea, you need some source to support those views, or make it clear it is your opinion.

That's a good idea and a good beginning, though there is a problem with "some source" Rush Limbaugh comes to mind. Humankind, especially in the US, seems to be tending more and more to evidence free mental processes, except in the instance of the extent to which a given "idea" or meme is "trending".

Back when, the religious right taught "teach the controversy" to its people, which required them in many cases to create the controversy. This was adopted by and spread to the "right" with or without religious prepended. Especially the "create the controversy" part of it. Next it became a principal occupation of pastime of huge numbers, all the talking heads, pundits, influencers, and the like, who endlessly create, cycle, recycle and recycle again "controversies", data, evidence, memes and the like. So having some source to point to, while a good idea, doesn't in and of itself cut it. I recall a guy saying that SARAS-CoV-2 was "the only corona virus with a furin cleavage site" - it took me 3 minutes with search engines to locate several papers examining cleavage sites in corona virii per se and not covid-19 that showed that assertion to be hellaciously erroneous, as in big time.

I would suggest that we all try to remember that tweets, blogs, podcasts, newscasts, and affidavits are not necessarily evidence or evidentiary, no matter how many repeats they get on faceplant or tweeter, and be more skeptical of everything on both sides of damn near every issue except in cases where there is a seeming preponderance of the evidence and to remain open minded even there just in case new information turns up.

be well and have a good one

empirically yours ---

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13 users have voted.

That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@enhydra lutris

Each new repeat of some putative "fact", of any kind, about anything, should never be used as grounds to snidely insult the intelligence of those who are not believers of said fact, even if it is something seemingly as well established as the fact that the earth orbits the sun and not vice-versa. That is hard to sustain but we all have to police our own selves in this regard. It isn't self-censorship in any meaningful sense because the insults, open or implied, are not meaningful content.

It's also true that not all sources are created equal:

there is a problem with "some source" Rush Limbaugh comes to mind.

The following is good to remember,

I would suggest that we all try to remember that tweets, blogs, podcasts, newscasts, and affidavits are not necessarily evidence or evidentiary, no matter how many repeats they get on faceplant or tweeter,

I do not always follow that good advice, in the sense that I do often cite things that are not actually evidence, but which follow a logic I consider to be sound. I try to always show the logic I'm using so others can decide if they think it's sound.

The most I ever do on the subject of COVID is to drop videos by John Campbell, who is not always right, but always shows his evidence and sources, and has few axes to grind except where something is really egregious (he got mad when the governor of TX said he had COVID and felt fine, mainly because Campbell himself had been around many many patients with COVID who either died or had suffered very serious effects; he's demoralized because people aren't giving the injections correctly, and the CDC and WHO are giving directions directly contrary to those of the manufacturers; other than those occasions, I've never seen him lose his cool).

and be more skeptical of everything on both sides of damn near every issue except in cases where there is a seeming preponderance of the evidence and to remain open minded even there just in case new information turns up.

And that's what rationalism, in its best self, looks like. Thank you for advocating for it.

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8 users have voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

It's also true that not all sources are created equal: there is a problem with "some source" Rush Limbaugh comes to mind.

and also true of the Rachel Maddow other side of the msm coin, at least on several important issues like Covid. On the latter, it's true of virtually ALL the msm these days.

So where do we go for the good info, that which isn't bought by the drug and vax manufacturers and delivered by their media reps who control corporate and state media all over the world? ON this issue, as with Russiagate and the Iraq War 2002-3, we have to go to independent small outlets and voices, ones not beholden to the state or fearless enough to speak out honestly. There are more than a few yet not enough, but there lies a problem for some who insist on first considering the evidence through a traditional and rather harsh political/messenger/platform filter which would tend to bias the evaluation of the information from the outset. These small outlets and indy voices don't have the great gravitas or institutional weight of some legacy media organs, yet they are much freer to speak the truth these days and therefore are much more likely to be delivering the truth in many, not all, cases.

A Stopped Clock. And Politics makes for strange bedfellows, and so does Covid. You take your allies where you find them is my attitude. So for RFK Jr, who is probably despised by a number of posters here for his stance on childhood vaccines, but who has done great work on Covid all along, asking tough questions, not accepting at face value the pronouncements of officialdom or the vax mfr's, initiating important legal challenges to the vaccines and mandates. All efforts worthy of support. I even applaud the usually wacko Sen Ron Johnson of WI for calling Dr Kory to testify to congress last year. I'd feel much better had one of the D senators taken this step, but none did, as all are in thrall to the fed health agencies and vax mfrs or are just too afraid to go against the Biden playbook.

Heck, even Project Veritas is no longer the small group of lying, drunken frat boy political pranksters that it used to be, judging by their latest Covid/Pfizer sneak videos which appear to be authentic. Crazy world it is where PV has more credibility than most voices on the left.

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5 users have voted.
Raggedy Ann's picture

@wokkamile , with your assessment of RFK Jr.

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3 users have voted.

"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@wokkamile

The Riverkeepers are great.

Don't know how he reconciles that with supporting Hillary Clinton for President, but that's just how most Democrats roll, I guess.

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1 user has voted.

"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

QMS's picture

why the hell does some electronic dust show up in the little fluid bottles?
Haven't they figured out filters yet?
Sheesh.

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4 users have voted.
snoopydawg's picture

Late to this party but I agree fully with what you say here. I feel bad that some people feel that they are no longer welcome here and I miss their voices.

You nailed it saying that once again the PTB are mind f’cking our minds and it can be difficult for people to see through the garbage. Can’t add much more than what you have said except thanks so much for saying it so succinctly. I especially love the part that if you didn’t buy into the Russia Gate scam then you must be a right winger or Trump lover. Hey ain’t that the truth? Any deviation from what democrats are pushing means that you have wandered too far from the reservation…or something like that. It’s silly. Period. Same if you don’t love the republicans that have been rehabilitated..good grief. Robert Kagan of the project for a new American century is the latest that democrats must read..go figure. Robert
Kagan. Wait for Kavanaugh to say something bad about Trump..lol.

For anyone who doesn’t feel welcome in the Dose essays please read and comment if you have something to say in the many other essays written here. Authors go to great lengths to keep us informed about the other important issues that get ignored by the mainstream media. If you don’t have anything to say please at least rec their essays so they know you found it valuable. It’s the least we can do for them for their work.

And if I have made anyone feel unwelcomed here I sincerely apologize. It’s never my intention to shut down conversations with people who have different opinions than I do. I value every person’s opinion no matter if I agree with it or not. If I don’t respond it might be because I have no good rebuttal.

That this site has stayed true to its founding principles is something we should all feel proud of. Let’s keep it going for another many years. As always if you can throw some $$$ JtC's way.

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3 users have voted.

In a free country civil liberties are not only for certain groups.
So this is how liberty dies . . . with thunderous applause.
The donor class doesn’t want it, and Americans elect the bribed. So suck it up.