Sens. McCain/Graham/McConnell talking about sanctions on Russia
Submitted by Sunspots on Fri, 02/17/2017 - 10:07am
with someone they thought was the Ukrainian prime minister. He wasn't. They got recorded.
The usual incredible hypocrisy! McCain was involved in the violent Kiev coup, along with the CIA and the rest of the neocons, so he knows that Russia wasn't involved - but it's a good excuse to agitate for war with Russia, yelling about Russian "provocations"!
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-02-17/senator-mccain-falls-absurd-rus...
As for McCain ever being a hero, Trump was right on that - what he was was an incompetent pilot. He crashed five planes and was only not dropped from flight because his father was an admiral.
Comments
Those two nitwits look like vaguely familiar stand-ins
…for the original idiots they replaced.
Nonetheless, I fear they are winning the hearts and minds of Americans across the awful continent. No matter how many times I flush, the misinformation keeps popping back in the collective bowl.
I'm going to hold off judgement
for more verification and fleshing out. Sounds so school yard right now with 2nd graders accusing 2nd graders of accusing 2nd graders of being 2nd graders.
Though I have no love of McCain, and hardly call him a hero, you have to admit he didn't give up the troops while a POW. I'd be less harsh about plane crashing had he been flying Harriers (I think their crash rate was nearing 50% at some times).
Plenty of other things to dog McCain on. I still haven't forgiven his part of the Keating Five.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
They have supposedly been confirmed with voice analysis
But even if these 'conversations' haven't been confirmed, the fact of them going viral on legit websites is a measure of success. It's win-win either way.
The Russki pranksters have been doing this for a long time.
It's on YOUTUBE
I'm tired of this back-slapping "Isn't humanity neat?" bullshit. We're a virus with shoes, okay? That's all we are. - Bill Hicks
Politics is the entertainment branch of industry. - Frank Zappa
I've read that pilots were normally out after a single crash
Just not McCain.
Depends on circumstances.
With Harrier it was multiple problems. Pegasus engine was way over powered for such a small plane for vertical lift. Vectored thrust was complex so given to more failures ( lot of roll on vertical takeoff). A lot of extra controls for the vertical operation crammed into a cockpit already a bit smaller than most a/c of the time. Lessened funding for support and training with some pilots only getting a couple hours a month behind the stick in a bird three times harder to fly.
I understand the Tomcat had a lot of problems with the variable sweep wings. While pilots are grounded during investigation, it doesn't necessarily mean you lose your wings for good.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
OK.
The first generation Harriers
-- did not take flight until 1980. McCain was long done. He was flying F4 Phantoms.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I thought it was an A-4
that he was flying when he started that carrier fire.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I believe it was an F4
McCain didn't set off the missile that caught the Forrestal on fire. It was a jet engine that was used to start other jet engines that brushed over the missile that started the fire. There are videos of it out there. If that is what we are talking about.
Also, I thought it was 2 planes he crashed. FIVE-- Great Scott! He was born with a silver aircraft carrier in his mouth.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
I don't have time to look it up,
but the way I remember the story is that he was doing a hot-rod trick called a "wet start" where you dump fuel into the afterburner on start-up and that's what started the fire. Anyway, they had to rush him off the carrier fast 'cuz the sailors were not amused.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I heard four planes.
But like my uncle Angus Sheepshagger, it doesn't matter how much good you do in the world, if you shag just ONE sheep...
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Ha!
--He built the whole town and went to Church every Sunday but what do the town folk remember?
That one time.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
That's strange...
I was doing inertial nav and heads up on Harrier from 75-78. You're thinking of the 8B.
McCain wouldn't fly one anyway as he was a Squid and Harrier was strictly Jarhead. I witnesses several of those rolls on vertical takeoff. Ejection from 20-30 feet off the deck is scary.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
One wonders about security when people in powerful positions
can get punked so easy.
I posted this previously but I'm adding it here for those who
have not seen it. It's funny as hell and has now gone viral. Maxine Walters - an embarrassment to America.
Russian War and $500 billion oil deals are mutually exclusive
The rich ( corporatocracy ) are fighting over that slice of the corporate welfare pie. The rich don't get hurt just a couple million less rich which is no biggie to them. It's us schleps who argue over whether Flynn committed treason and whether Trump is a moron who are the suckers.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
Putin subverted American Corporatocracy not, Democracy
I read all over how Putin has subverted American democracy. We don't have a democracy, the power is in the hands of the corporations our elections are just for show. Citizen's United proved that. What ever happened to that anyway? Clinton would have just continued screwing over ExxonMobil with Obama's LAST MINUTE sanctions on Russia while giving the MIC arm of the corporatocracy a bigger slot at the public money trough.
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies." - Groucho
Not necessarily.
14th Rule of Acquisition: Anything stolen is pure profit.
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
@the_poorly_educated What about those of us
What about those of us who wonder aloud whether we're looking at an MIC coup?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Bomber Johnny is having a saddy...
Best thing I've heard all week.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
And I'm sorry John
but after unleashing Sarah Palin as an acceptable candidate for VP, you've got a lotta nerve wondering just how the Rump came into power and calling him out for being unacceptable as POTUS.
Only a fool lets someone else tell him who his enemy is. Assata Shakur
@Not Henry Kissinger ROTFLMAO!
ROTFLMAO!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
I don't care it this vid is genuine or not
it is funny stuff. It seems genuine to me. How would one script such a thing or fake that? I dunno.
"I can't understand why people are frightened of new ideas. I'm frightened of the old ones."
John Cage
What the hell went on in Ukraine anyway?
I see a lot of one strong opinion here about it having been some kind of fascist takeover. All I remember is watching the Sochi Winter Olympics on TV, while there were increasing demonstrations in Ukraine because the pro-Russia government didn't want Ukraine to go ahead and get friendly with NATO or the EU (I'm ignorant). And then Putin sent in troops to Crimea. The desire of Ukrainians to be more independent seems perfectly valid to me. Where do the nazis come in? Like I said, I'm ignorant and indoctrinated, but it seems that Ukraine should have the right of self-determination.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Long story short,
there was a US supported coup in Kiev. In 2014 the elected pro-Russian government was brought down. Ukrainian neo-Nazis, see OUN, were involved in the coup and are active combatants in the civil war. The country is divided so self-determination means something different for ethnic Ukrainians in the west than it does for ethnic Russians in the east and Crimea. The US has been arming the Kiev government in the civil war and is provoking the Russians in various ways. Just yesterday, for example, NATO announced that it would hold naval exercises in the Black Sea. Putin occupied Crimea to prevent it becoming a NATO base. Any responsible Russian leader would have done the same, it's an important strategically and there's a lot of history there. Hope that helps.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
I read that at least a million Ukrainians have fled to Russia
so far, and been taken in.
@Sunspots
I don't doubt it. Despite, or maybe because of, Ukraine's turn towards the west Russia has a higher standard of living.
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Dont have time for the full story
Corrections and additions to what I will write are appreciated. The US has been meddling in Ukraine for a long time. There are long-standing differences between western Ukraine and eastern Ukraine. In WWII there were a lot of Nazi sympathizers in western Ukraine that saw the Germans as liberating them from Russia and some of them pitched in to help murder Jews, Roma and gays. Eastern Ukraine was more industrial, had more Russian immigrants and was generally more pro-Russian. Crimea was an independent socialist republic within the USSR but was transferred to the Ukrainian Socialist Republic in 1954. After the collapse of the USSR, Crimea remained part of Ukraine although it was predominantly Russian in terms of language and ethnicity. It hosts Russia's Black Sea fleet. In 2004 Viktor Yushchenko who was pro west probably defeated Viktor Yanukovych who was more pro-Russian in the Presidential election although Yanukovych was originally declared to be the winner. The Orange Revolution followed, basically staged by George Soros, USAID, the National Endowment for Democracy and their stooges. Yushchenko won in a revote, but then was a failure as a President, becoming extremely unpopular. There are complex bits here including two dismissals of parliament, a falling out with Yulia Tymoshenko, etc. etc. He has now largely faded from sight. Yanukovych ran for President in 2010 and won, defeating Tymoshenko. Yanukovych was also a bad President and would have lost the next election. Soros et al. seized the opportunity, facilitating a takeover of Independence Square by pro-Europe people, Nazis (Svoboda, formerly Social Nationalist) and right-wing fascists (Right Sector). Victoria Nuland, Assistant Secretary of State for European and Eurasian affairs famously gave the demonstrators cookies and a stupidly unencrypted phone conversation of hers was intercepted in which she discussed who she was going to replace Yanukovych with. I will omit additional details which are complex and disputed and involve the shooting of a number of protesters by snipers (there are arguments as to who's side the snipers were on). Yanukovych reached an agreement with the opposition but then fled, probably intimidated by armed Svoboda and Right sector militants. In aggregate the replacement of the Yanukovych government amounted to a US backed coup. The Russians were pissed as were the Russian speaking people of Crimea and so Russia reannexed Crimea and pro-Russian people in Eastern Ukraine have rebelled against the Kiev government, which is pro-European, pro-US and just as bad as the previous governments (and just as unpopular). Nuland's pick for President, Arseniy Yatsenyuk (Yats as Nuland called him) eventually became Prime Minister but was forced to step down when his approval rating dropped below 5%.
From what I read, the elected Ukraine president objected to EU
& IMF terms for applying to join the EU, because they would have imposed Greek-style austerity on Ukraine. The CIA had been involved there for years because for Full Spectrum Dominance they have to control the countries on Russia's borders. Also, since it used to be part of Russia, Russia has all along had a base in Crimea, which is their only warm water port. They couldn't give that up. Besides, the people in Crimea, who are mostly ethnic Russian and speak Russian, voted 90% to be annexed to Russia. They had been supporters of the elected Ukraine president. Most of Ukraine's trade had been with Russia, so their products fit Russian specifications, not European ones, and most of Ukraine's industry had been in its east, which is being attacked by the Kiev group, with CIA support.
The Ukraine coup supporters are said to still (even Ukrainian communities in this country) revere Stepan Bsndera, a WW2 Ukrainian Nazi, known for particularly vicious behavior, They were also big supporters of Hillary. There's a video of some of what happened in the Kiev coup:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8-RyOaFwcEw
Another video of the Kiev coup aftermath
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_W0darIeDFs
Here's another one,
Johnny Mac at the Maidan,
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvsN9syhZP8 width:500 height:300]
We wanted decent healthcare, a living wage and free college.
The Democrats gave us Biden and war instead.
Sounds like a murky mess
And a lot of people being played all over the World for the benefit of a few.
Beware the bullshit factories.
Meh.
I'm can't say I'm particularly convinced by about the predominant view on here about Crimea.
Yeah, neither was Queen Victoria...
nor Napoleans I AND III, the Kaiser, Adolph Hitler, George Bush, nor Barack Obama.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
Well, I can already see we're not gonna see eye to eye here.
But, hey! Sketchy referendums to join a country, whose soldiers are occupying your territory, and far-right election observers. Looks legit.
Sure...
Because violent coups are such a better way to confer legitimacy than referendums ('sketchy' or otherwise.)
The referendum got over 95%. Are you seriously arguing that more than half of those votes were fraudulent? Or that the majority Russian population would vote to remain in a country whose Russian friendly government had just been overthrown by a cabal of Gallician nazis and crooks who were conducting a murderous ethnic cleansing campaign of Russian speakers in the east of the country and terrorizing peaceful anti-coup demostrations elsewhere?
The Russian army has been 'occupying' Crimea for 300 years, and the soldiers currently ther were the only thing standing between the people of Crimea and the butchers in Kiev. Unless of course you can cite ANY instance of intimidation of Russian soldiers during the referendum process, your entire premise is simply a fabrication based on your own ignorance of the actual situation.
NO idea what you are talking about. The Russian invited the OSCE to monitor the elections but it refused, preferring instead to support the unelected regime in Kiev (go figure). The monitors who did come included elected officials from western countries and all reported little if any fraud at all.
Heck, even that crazy Putin-lover Diane Feinstein said the vote was legit.
By contrast, the real 'far right' were the neo-Nazi supporters of the coup government who were given carte blanche to brutalize Russian speakers in the east. Look up Azov battalion sometime if you are truly interested in finding out the real story.
But hey, at least there WAS a referendum. When the people of Donbass tried a similar vote, Poreshenko sent in the tanks.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
USA USA USA, where 'progress is our most important product' .
Endless war r us.
Thanks, Not Henry Kissinger:
A truth of the nuclear age/climate change: we can no longer have endless war and survive on this planet. Oh sh*t.
@Ravensword Just out of
Just out of curiosity, what's your opinion on the Democratic primary? Was that vote valid or not?
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
@Timmethy2.0 A good article from some
A good article from some friends of this site...https://shadowproof.com/2016/01/26/congress-quietly-kills-ban-on-funding...
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Here's Nuland discussing who should be in control
of Ukraine after the US engineered putsch.
Edited to give better video
Neocon McCain's Hatred of Russia 'a Disease'