Open Thread - Thurs 14 July 2022 - An Immigration Rabbit Hole

Submitted by Sima on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 5:00am

Russian and Chinese Immigration: A Rabbit Hole

Last week a post by gjohnsit about Hillary's Silk Road had a comment by Ban Nock which mentioned that there is little or no immigration to Russia and China. That intrigued me, mostly because I wondered, why no immigration? So I did a bit of research.

First thing I found much to my surprise, is that there is immigration to Russia; a lot of it. It's coming from places I wouldn't normally pay attention to such as the former states of the Soviet Union and so on. In 2014, Russia was the 'World's Second-Largest Immigration Haven'. Note that this is a good article which talks about American blindness to the haven that Russia can be for immigrants.

But there is also a lot of emigration (Russians moving to another country) from Russia too. The net inflow/outflow of migrants to and from Russia is about equal although predictions are population numbers for the country will drop by 2030 and again by 2050 due to an aging population and level immigration/emigration numbers (surprisingly, this same prediction is given for Japan which has an aging population as well).

There is almost no immigration into China, although there is quite a bit of emigration from China. An article from 2017 talks about these facts. One of the factors for low immigration to China is a strict immigration policy. There are also language barriers and China thinks it doesn't need or want immigrants. It has a huge rural population of workers and only encourages ethnic Chinese to migrate into the country. It will be hit by the aging population problem too, so who knows if the powers that be there will change immigration policies?

An interesting report on immigration is published by the UN. Here's the report from 2020. If you find the movement of people around the world interesting it's a good, albeit a bit boring, read.

An Aside: I was listening to ska/reggae/punk/I dunno what to call it... it was the Reel Big Fish radio station on Pandora. This new version of Nena's classic Neun und Neunzig Luftballons (99 Red Balloons) came on, by Goldfinger. This version is only about 10 years old, instead of errrmmm 40 Blum 3 . And the song is still one of the best anti-nuclear war songs, I think. I'm glad it's still being listened to and spoken about and used in a lot of movies!

[video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-qfzH0vnOs]

So, thanks for reading about my latest rabbit hole and here's the open thread - and remember, everything is interesting if you dive deep enough, so tell us about where you're diving!

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Submitted by Sima on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 5:48am
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I hope you have a great day. I've got a lot of family chore type things to do, but plan to enjoy the sun, catch a few rays in the garden and pet the goats (and dog and cats).

What's up for your day? Whatcha been reading or rabbit-holing? Got any good tidbits on immigration to other countries? It's kind of fascinating, I have to admit. And, let's hear some newer renditions of anti-war songs!

Thanks for reading and stopping by!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Lookout on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 7:35am
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with Texas and Florida gaining population.

I've picked a big batch of peppers which I'm chopping and freezing today. Got a bunch of tomatoes too. I plan to make stew out on the porch in the instant pot while I'm processing peppers.

We had a bunch of trees down from a big storm last week. I've have a friend coming over tomorrow to help me cut up the firewood and drag off the brush.

Yesterday I spent the afternoon playing some music with a friend. It was good to scrape off some of the rust, and re-find old lyrics.

So I hope you all are doing well. Thanks for the OT!

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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by lotlizard on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 8:00am
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@Lookout  
I guess that shows they’re not expecting climate change to be a problem during their time as Sun Belters.

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Submitted by Lookout on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 8:43am
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@lotlizard

from sea level rise. Ironically we've had a fairly mild summer. There were a couple of really hot weeks last month, but this month has been pretty comfortable. Our Texas friends are the ones in hot water this summer. The current heat dome is centered over the four corners. Much of the migration is out of CA, which has climate chaos induced wildfires on the regular, but much of the migration is political in nature...wanting to live in a state with fewer regulations especially the COVID related ones.

Things seem pretty weird in Germany these days. Hope you are doing alright!

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9 users have voted.
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“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:26am
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@Lookout
In the late 1980s. My brother lived there for a bit. It wasn't bad, but it was very weird for me. The highest hill I saw was... a trash dump. Coming from mountainous terrain, I couldn't deal very well with that :).

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:24am
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@lotlizard

I'm enjoying the sarcasm :). Tonight's BBC read told me they are expecting 40C in some places next week. 104F. In England. I can't imagine that. Florida doesn't appeal to me at all. Texas? Parts of it are great. But I'll stick with the rainy PacNW.

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:22am
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@Lookout
Sorry to be late in replying, got to be a busy day and night for me. Still things went well! I am going to be processing garlic scapes, basil, peppers, broccoli and more in the next couple of days. Can't believe how many scapes we have, once I get them cut up and frozen, wonder if we'll need all the garlic bulbs? Heh.

It's time to start working on firewood here. We don't have any trees down, so we'll have to go into the woods and look for some over at my parents place...

Have a great day!

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3 users have voted.
—

If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by randtntx on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 7:56am

I'm just dipping into this book https://mountaincedars.com/index.html
Cedar trees have a bad reputation around my area and this book explains why that reputation is unjustified. They are beautiful trees, click on here and you will see.
https://mountaincedars.com/tree-vs-bush.html

I like how the author, Elizabeth McGreevy, explains how to estimate the age of a tree.
https://mountaincedars.com/grow-rate.html

One of the incorrect assumptions some ranchers have about this tree is that it doesn't have any nutritional value for wildlife. McGreevy explains:

Wildlife spread Mountain Cedar seeds through their excrement. Many people, however, don't accept this because they've been told nothing eats Mountain Cedars.
This is not true.
Hill Country wildlife relish the juniper berries and seeds that grow on female Mountain Cedars. Juniper berries and seeds provide a reliable source of winter carbs and proteins. Besides native wildlife, livestock also eat the berries.

A wildlife management consultant noted that:

...almost every deer's paunch contained juniper berries and seeds.

A study by Dr. Felipe Chavez-Ramirez noted that:

...19 bird species, including Wild Turkeys and quail, consumed the berries.He concluded Cedar Waxwings and American Robins spread the most Mountain Cedar seeds.
Cedar Waxwings travel in large flocks. By sheer numbers alone, they can consume more berries than all the other wildlife combined.

But other wildlife relies on this food.

Gray Foxes, Ring-tailed Cats and Rock Squirrels adore juniper berries.
Black-tailed Jackrabbits, raccoons, and coyotes, eat the berries and seeds.

There is an insect called the Juniper Budworm that as a caterpillar, uses the cedar foliage. As a moth it belongs to a family of moths that are feasted on by insect-eating birds and one of the heaviest feeders is the Golden-cheeked Warbler. The Golden-cheeked Warbler is classified as an endangered bird.

Anyhow, that is my current rabbit-hole. Thanks for your ideas and the OT.

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Submitted by lotlizard on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 8:18am
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@randtntx  
as a child growing up in Hawai‘i in the Fifties. All the fauna and flora typical for the northern temperate zone simply didn’t exist (outside of books and the occasional film).

Two associations still come to mind in connection with the word “juniper”: (1) the phrase “a nuthatch hammering away at a juniper tree” from a kids’ book about a burro, Brighty of the Grand Canyon by Marguerite Henry, and (2) the gin component of the gin and tonics I drank now and then in my college days (gin being flavored with juniper berries).

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Submitted by randtntx on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 8:40am

@lotlizard , there has been, over the last several years, an interest in cocktails that are "wildcrafted". This generally implies that the are made with herbs and other "wild" ingredients. I've had a few of them over the years (a very few) and some are very good...they can taste green and herby. They are however, a bit too precious and pricey in my opinion.

According to McGreevy there is a local brewery that flavors their gin with Alligator juniper which she says is a close cousin to Mountain cedar. She also says that the Native Americans across the continent have, for centuries, made a different beverage entirely... juniper coffee. It's caffeine-free.

I grew up around pine trees of one kind or another and have a fondness for them. I do think though, as a kid, I would not have minded growing up in Hawai'i at all. Smile

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:31am
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@randtntx
Sound very interesting. I am used to the western red cedar trees that grow here in WA state. I love them, but I think they are different that mountain cedars, which are junipers?

Thanks for sharing what you are reading. I love learning about all this stuff!

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3 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by randtntx on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 8:51am

@Sima , that McGreevy is writing about are Juniperus ashei. They are not a true cedar but of the genus Juniperus. She says that;

there are just four true cedars world wide and all originated from the Mediterranean and the Himalayas.

The genus name for true cedars is

Cedrus.

Both cedars and junipers are classified as conifers.

True cedars have small woody cones, junipers have small fleshy cones that ripen into fleshy berries-typically called juniper berries. This reproductive difference puts true cedars in the pine family with other cone-bearing trees. Junipers are in the cypress family (which includes redwoods)

Don't mind me....I'm just starting to learn this.

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 4:27pm
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@randtntx
a cedar. In the original meaning at least. Apparently, the 'discoverers' of different areas named trees 'cedars' if they have aromatic bark. The western red cedar is a thuja. Too cool! I didn't know redwoods were cypresses, either. Love those trees too. Thanks for helping me learn some new stuff!

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1 user has voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by QMS on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 8:26am
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Good morning. Searching for emigration data for the US is difficult. Some hits ..

I can't find the stats on US citizens emigrating, but I seem to remember news reports that emigration to Canada had reached a "record" number of something like 10,000.

Citizenship For Tax Purposes: It is possible to have relinquished US citizenship for nationality purposes but still be considered to be a US citizen for tax purposes (yes, it’s true depending on the date of the relinquishment.)

The number of US citizens searching for options permanently to leave their home country has risen significantly.

A treaty signed in 1956 by the Dutch and American government that is still valid today stipulates that US citizens can relocate to Curacao under more or less the same conditions as Dutch citizens. The procedure to relocate to Curacao is much less complicated than Americans would experience when applying for a permit in Canada.

The top-earning 1% of US taxpayers are Leaving the USA at the highest rate in history. (Source: INS/Census Bureau & Zogby International estimates)

Since most of those who leave, are seeking privacy, they avoid leaving many trails. Therefore, factual data about expatriation is very difficult to come by.

If you are older and living on a pension, then moving out of the country to Mexico offers a much better opportunity. As the current social security earnings for retirees averages just $1,300 USD a month, that amount buys you a lifestyle in Mexico well above that of most high earning Mexicans. Many retirees live in Mexico for as little as $350 USD a month, and end up with a surplus that allows them to travel, entertain and live quite well.

If you are flexible and have in-demand skills, you can pretty much leave it all behind and move to Mexico, where you can find work for a USA company. You will be paid in dollars, deposited directly into your Mexico bank account. You will be able to live at 1/2 to 1/5 of the cost of living in the USA, which means a vastly improved lifestyle.

One of the key learning I take from it is that many Americans are unprepared for retirement. Indeed, the average American worker has saved $25,000 for retirement but it is estimated she/he will need $350,000 if she/he wishes to retire at 65 (i.e. 14 times more money!).

net-international-migration-at-lowest-levels-in-decades-figure-1.jpeg

Hmm.
Thanks for the OT!

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question everything

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:37am
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@QMS
is difficult. I've been looking myself. I've found some places that sell info, for people who want to emigrate, but I dunno how reliable it is.

I don't think too many people actually leave the USA, in comparison to those who come here. On the other hand that could be changing.

Thanks for sharing this info that you've found. It's interesting how the USA is such a destination for so many, and yet, I often feel trapped.

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3 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by enhydra lutris on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 11:42am
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opposition to the JCPA, regarding which I just wrote an OT, this OT just made me focus for a moment on the idea of emigration from the US, specifically, that one really can't. I had friends who emigrated to Canada back in the sixties. Today it is questionable if that would get them out of uncle stupid's clutches. Citizen or not, resident or not, if the US wants you, for any reason and/or purpose, it will get you. Think of Assange.

If we have an extradition treaty with the nation where you hole up, they will extradite you. If we don't have such a treaty, or the foreign country decides to block the extracition. we will engage in rendition, a politician-speak synonym for kidnapping. We have 3 kinds of rendition, ordinary, extraordinary and Obama. Obama is simply extraordinary with sugar coating. He wished to pretend that we were ceasing the practice, and declared such to be the case by redefining the process and then pretending we wouldn't dot one "i". In ordinary rendition we kidnap people and bring them to the US. In extraordinary rendition, we kidnap people and dump them off in some other country, sometimes in a CIA black site and sometimes in some other arrangement. In Obamaland, extraordinary rendition had an additional feature that the victims would be tortured wherever they wound up. By adding this fictitious extra feature, he could declare that we were ending the process because we would demand assurances from the destination that they wouldn't torture the victim. Of course, whether such as assurance involved winks and nudges or not, everybody knows that they are, have been and will be meaningless and unenforceable after the fact, and not intended to be enforced in any manner in the first place. It all depends upon how badly we want the victim and how skilled our CIA and special ops criminals are during the kidnapping attempt.

Beyond that, I got nuthin' and everythin' on my mind. Thursday is on the downhill side of the week, the current necessary behaviors, chores, tasks and such don't change, but I take over cooking and shopping next week and need to begin to think of stuff to make. Ah well, such is life, as the man said.

be well and have a good one

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That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:42am
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@enhydra lutris
You can't leave the USA even if you leave the USA. I've thought about moving overseas again. But I don't know if I can, I am, as the saying goes, 'Land rich and very cash poor'. And I couldn't pay taxes to two countries! Good grief. At least the second country's taxes would pay for health care and so on, though.

Good luck with the cooking and the shopping. I have to admit, I don't mind either, but I hate the planning!

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4 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by humphrey on Thu, 07/14/2022 - 2:36pm

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:56am
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@humphrey
endeavor gets turned into trash as the 'funders' take it over? I dunno, so depressing.

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3 users have voted.
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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by lotlizard on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 1:38am
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This is a staff editorial from the Danish daily Politiken:

https://politiken.dk/debat/ledere/art8878796/Lad-v%E6re-Biden-Du-var-den...

Leave it be, Biden! You were the right man in 2020, you won't be in two years.
Joe Biden should not run in the 2024 election.

U.S. President Joe Biden has done a great job on many counts. First of all, he has normalized American politics after the chaotic years of Donald Trump. But also substantively and politically, Joe Biden has done quite well. With the least possible majority in the Senate and a Republican Party that denies virtually all cooperation, Biden has steered the United States through the pandemic, almost stopping the death spiral into which Trump's denial had led the superpower.

He has built and held together an international coalition that supports Ukraine and isolated Russia. He has appointed the first black female Supreme Court justice in the United States, passed the first major gun law in decades, and restored America's position as the anchor of the international world order.

 
How can an educated, privileged European elite be not just this misinformed, but also committed to preaching such drivel to its presumably equally educated and privileged audience?

For a truer picture of reality and more accurate forecasts of likely future developments, I now literally have to peruse the array of independent media sources everyone in power denounces as far right and/or neo-Nazi.

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Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 5:58am
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@lotlizard
who wrote this piece for Politiken? Someone from Biden's election team? Gah!

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so

Submitted by TheOtherMaven on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 8:12am
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@Sima

Muhahahahaha!

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There is no justice. There can be no peace.

Submitted by Sima on Fri, 07/15/2022 - 4:29pm
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@TheOtherMaven
And probably true! Smile Smile Smile

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If you're poor now, my friend, then you'll stay poor.
These days, only the rich get given more. -- Martial book 5:81, c. AD 100 or so
Nothing ever changes -- Sima, c. AD 2020 or so