Open Thread-a-roonie - 4/14/16 - Dems are 29%
The point I'm hoping to make here is that both parties suck, hardly anybody likes them, and it's mind-boggling that somebody put up by organizations that are so disliked will be elected President and that we pretty much have no say in the matter.
Dems and Repubs are both minorities
In February 2015 the Gallup people found that 29% of all Americans of voting age identified themselves as Democrats, with 25% saying Republican and 43% saying they were "independent". When those indies were asked which way they leaned, and those people were added to the major parties, the Dems came out ahead 44-43.
http://www.gallup.com/poll/15370/party-affiliation.aspx
Which is interesting because back when Obama could have done something, when he was seen as a leader of the people (right after the 2008 election), the D/R split was, with leaners included, 55-37. So that's how much goodwill he wasted.
The most recent poll had Dems up somewhere in between those two points, ahead 32-26 in self-identification. The number of people who say they're Democrats has fluctuated between 26% and 32% for a couple of years now and Republicans have been as low as 20% (!) of the voting population (2013).
Will either go the way of the Whigs?
Over the last few decades we've heard either the Dems or Repubs were about to become extinct but they never do. That's because both parties are incompetent and corrupt and when one fails the other becomes the "in" group....until it, too, fails. And we're only allowed two parties. Forget the labels, Democratic and Republican. They are always "In" and "Out". We're entertained by stories of court intrigue in foreign places, where we know little about the people, the issues, the factions, just that knives get drawn, people get stabbed and power passes to the new king or dictator or group. We can see it, in those cases, for the naked power grab that it is but we sometimes miss that that is exactly what goes on here, because we know too much about the situation and we get drawn into thinking it matters and that Person X will fix things. Person X, it turns out, is just another guy with a knife.
What does this minority status mean for the general election?
Now back to this 29% business....it's been mentioned that if we have two candidates and they split closely, like Obama and Hills or Hills and Bernie, then the nomination will be decided by about 15%. Right? 'cause half of 29%, add a little for one candidate, that should come to about 15%.
Let's say Her Ladyship wins the Democratic nomination with 15% of the total voting population and Trump wins the Repub nod with half of the Republican votes, or 13% of everyone. That leaves 72% of the grand total to be divvied up. Shouldn't Hills appeal to a lot of those people? I mean, in order to win she'd have to be popular enough. How does she do with that 72%? It isn't a pretty picture. But then I'm sure the dopes at the DNC, knowing they can't make her a winner will try to make the Repub a loser.
Why don't we have a third major party?
You'd think if the number of people who are independents is larger than either party we wouldn't have to put up with this nonsense but "independent" doesn't have the money behind it that either D or R have. Should someone decide to invest a ton of cash into a third party it would probably work and one of the current major parties would fade away until we'd be left with the remaining party plus the new party...which would then become the new "In" and "Out".
Who are the low information voters?
I recently read an article in the market research publication, Quirk's, entitled "How political marketing influences voters: Part 1", that got me to thinking.
http://www.quirks.com/articles/2016/20160425-1.aspx
It asks the question "When does the public start researching candidates?" Now this is interesting because we like to think we're well informed, that we've been following the issues and the candidates since forever. We're not low information voters. Before we look at this article, what are our assumptions? Mine were that people in the 40-65 year old range know the most about politics and that Democrats, in general, being smarter than Republicans, are more aware. Now let's go to the videotape...or the text.
When asked how early respondents begin researching presidential candidates, KSM’s political marketing survey uncovered that Millennials are actually more likely than Baby Boomers to vet candidates very early in the campaigning process. The difference is a statistically significant 38 percent of Millennials who say they begin researching presidential candidates one year or more prior to an election, compared to 27 percent of Baby Boomers who do the same. In other words, Millennials are 1.4 times more likely than Baby Boomers to research candidates early on. Generation X nearly splits the difference at 31 percent. Thirty-five percent of Baby Boomers (this group’s most popular answer) and 31 percent of Gen X research just three to 11 months prior.
In short, the older one gets, the more likely he/she is to get into the details later. Since older people are still more likely to vote it means that less informed voters are going to the polls in primaries and voting for people they know little about...but they've heard that one candidate or another is inspiring. Now dig this:
When it comes to research timing comparisons among party affiliations, the numbers also vary substantially. For instance, about one-fifth of Republicans claim they begin the research process for midterm candidates between six to 11 months prior to that region’s respective Election Day....Compare this with midterm numbers for Democrats and independents, and some stark differences arise. The latter two groups claim they either don’t start their research process until a couple of months prior to Election Day (17 percent for both Democrats and independents) or go as far as stating that they don’t research midterm candidates at all (25 percent of Democrats and 26 percent of independents).
That's about midterms but the article points out the Presidential election numbers are similar. 24% of Democrats say they do NO candidate research.
So the least informed voters are the Democrats who pushed Hillary into the big pledged delegate lead. Swell.
What about the general election in November?
Now for some more numbers. I'll try to make this easy to understand. I don't want anyone glazing over! I started talking about this with shaharazade and realized I'd have to get to the point quickly!
Let's say Bernie has about 45% of the Dem vote (which we've seen is only a smallish portion of the overall voting population). It works out to about 17 million voters that we can identify as Berners. Obama won the last election, with his great "Better than the Mormon!" slogan, by 5 million. If 1/3 of the Bernie people don't vote for Hillary then the Republicans win.
I want to make the point again that Obama lost about 4 million votes in 2012 off his 2008 total. Were those the same people who now support Bernie? Who decided, in 2012, not to vote for President or who voted for Jill Stein? It's an interesting question.
http://ropercenter.cornell.edu/polls/us-elections/popular-vote/
But it could also be argued that Obama's total in 2008 was a fluke, since the total number of voters was so high compared to 2004. 2012 showed a decline in total vote from 2008 but was still higher than 2004. I think if we take the 2012 numbers we're fairly safe in using that as a base, thus reinforcing the conclusion that Hillary is in trouble in the general election.
And yet, going back to the two party system and whether or not one of the parties will fade away, and that they're both corrupt and incompetent, the Republicans look about ready to out-incompetent the Democrats. That's Her Ladyship's best chance for a win, that the Repubs nominate either Trump or Cruz. Against any real human being she'd lose badly.
Ok, enough chat. Now for some music!
Some songs I like. The titles amuse me in the context of this diary. Some Beatles
And another...the original by the Valentinos
Perhaps Hillary will sing this song to voters on election night. This is Skeeter Davis
enough of that...here's a rockin' number to cleanse the mind, clear out the political nonsense...Ritchie Valens!

Comments
What does the modern Democratic Party offer?
Some inconvenient truth from Steve Almond on Salon:
Bernie Sanders is challenging the Dem establishment because "has staked out authentically progressive positions," unlike any presidential candidate in recent memory.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
yep, the Dem Party's purpose is taking in money
anything resembling a stand on an issue is actually a con man style of what's called a "touch". A homeless person on the street with a sign asking for money is more honest than the Democratic Party.
From upstate NY
It looks like they have been Feeling the Bern for some time now...posted February 2016
[video:https://youtu.be/xF-kABLL3CQ]
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
Go Finger Lakes folks!
I may call some of ya on Sunday! Save Seneca Lake! Feel the Bern! Signed, an Ithacan, Town of Dryden resident.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Ya no I live so far downstate that I forget sometimes. Just how
Kewl Upstaters are !!!!
I need a road trip upstate!
Orwell was an optimist
So much for the revisionist history about TBTF banks
Look out Paul Krugman: Elizabeth Warren slams “revisionist history” after report finds Wall Street still too-big-to-fail
Senator Elizabeth Warren posted on Facebook:
The whole thing is worth reading. Without naming names, Warren said Bernie is right and Krugman (and Hillary) are wrong - and peddling "revisionist history" on behalf of Wall Street billionaires.
"We've done the impossible, and that makes us mighty."
A centrist trying to pass for liberal
Krugman is an odd case. To his credit he came out vigorously against the Iraq war before it was launched in contrast to the many public figures who waited until it was almost impossible to deny the failure before turning against the war. And yet Krugman has twice zealously supported Clinton's bid for the Democratic nomination despite Clinton's wholehearted support for the invasion. Clinton's support continued until she decided that she couldn't have that around her neck in the current race. So either Krugman doesn't consider the Iraq war a big deal or he's drank the centrist koolaid and accepts this sort of duplicitous behavior as simply being realistic or pragmatic. Or maybe Krugman is less clear-eyed than he seems to be in his own mind.
but then has twice zealously supported a candidate who
I peeked at TOP
Full-on Sanders Derangement happening. The Pope is fleeing Rome to avoid that Jew and 11,000 people came to hear him speak last night. Hard to tell the gullible or committed from the socks and zombies. Does Socks&Zombies sound like a band name?
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Then there is misinformation
which filters all information, historical, political, cultural, through the lens of us vs. them. The numbers don't lie but the tea leaf readers sure as hell back their misinformation using data that tells the tale they want us to believe is reality. Just the facts doesn't cut it if you ignore all of the how's and why's. The information overload is useless if it does not offer any meaningful choice.
The binary measurements and counting tells their story not the peoples. Look at how they measure the economy or unemployment it's not based on the common good of people or nation states they live in or even the planet's survival. It's all about the global growth and profits of the obscene 'wealth creators'. Political data is the worst as it is all based on partisan binary bs. like do you 'self identify' as a Democrat or a Republican. Neither Fool! Which is why Indies are the fastest rising number.
My point being that even if you do research your choice 6-months to a year in advance of a selection your not informed your bamboozled. The lesser evil or George Bush great president or greatest. Then you get to read about how your candidate had no choice but to blow up hospitals or kill millions because 'terrist's are gonna kill yer family' and super predators need to be brought to heel and be incarcerated or shot down in the streets. Law and Order. So instead of information you get fear and loathing back up the numbers of mass deception. Obstructionist's made me do it. We didn't have the votes because 60+ is now a majority. Victories for compromise, Let's do the numbers.
One of my clients when I was working as a free lance graphic designer said that market research with it's stat's, charts and tables was the voodoo they used to back up the money and the effectiveness of their lying pitch. Think of how much money both parties generate and suck up in order to get us to ratify the candidates the political machines and the powerful interest's wants us to consent to.
This is why Bernie is so popular and why Obama was able to get people to turn out in mass. Obama was a ringer, a talented orator who was nothing but a PR marketing suit. I'm proud that after being bait and switched to this degree people have rallied once again behind not just a pol but a movement that isn't about their dicey math or fear of other but about universal inalienable self evident truths and democracy. Low information voters are a myth if the only information available is written in double speak, sliced and diced and spewed out as the only reality your allowed to chose.
'I chose pizza' said a young man in a household of skateboarders who were eager to register to vote in 2007. They wanted to vote for Obama and get some hope and change. The skateboarder who held out and refused to register Dem. probably was more informed than the rest of his housemates.
I was going to turn off
my computer and get to work on cleaning my pit of a house when I decided to see what the Guardian had to say about the NYC Bernie rally. The guardian has gone to hell in a corporate handbasket these days. I sorted through a bunch of stories about how rude texting in a movie theater is and other lifestyle issues of the yuppie hipster urban set. The US election coverage was wall to wall coverage of the inevitable one and the hairball. I finally found an article that kind of snidely diminishes all Bernie supporters as DFH's and OWS millennials at least they covered the rally. Here my favorite part of the article. I really like Spike Lee he's smart, good and funny. His movies aren't half bad either.
http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/apr/14/bernie-sanders-rally-in-n...
This just irritated me.
Serious people beware as these liberal populist rabble rouser's like Corbyn or Sander's are just frivolous and dangerous . The Guardian is really in the Clinton/Blairite neoliberal bag. They scorn Bernie as much as they do Corbyn. Putin's gonna get you if the west doesn't get him first mentality abounds.
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