Nuke war anyone?

This Allen Hall person, (IMO) appears to be pushing for a nuclear war because he feels it will be survivable by many if not most of us.

I beg to differ. (My counter arguments are in our conversation.)

Back at Jackpine Radicals, one of our founders was a nuclear engineer or physicist. I would normally have posted this link to him instead but sadly, the man has passed away.

That said, I hope there is someone(s) here who knows enough about the things this war-monger is spouting to shut down his arguments. The West is complacent enough as it is!

BTW, Check out what this character does for a living on his front page. Yep, it appears he makes or hopes to make $$ off of nuclear war technology.

If this Quara link doesn't work I will delete all of this but hopefully it works:

https://www.quora.com/If-a-nuclear-war-were-to-erupt-and-the-US-was-atta...

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all our finest minds are from CSUN.
I feel terrible pulling an elitist attitude,
I am afraid the rankings for that school are about what I would expect.
Lots of respected assholes from Stanford floating in the punch.
all evens out.
it's the ideas, not the background that matters.
Northridge..
this is what I get for praying for annihilation.
shoulda asked for lottery numbers.

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5 users have voted.

.
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i:m not saying we wouldn't get our hair mussed.

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6 users have voted.

I cried when I wrote this song. Sue me if I play too long.

usefewersyllables's picture

some folks who think nuclear war is winnable.

You won’t find too many of them around these parts, though.

I prefer to think of cretins like that with a great deal of pity, and say a lot of quiet little prayers of thanks that they aren’t close enough to the levers of power to actually immanantize the eschaton. Or perhaps they are now, in which case it’ll be over quickly.

Longtime readers here know that I keep the makings of a perfect Manhattan, and my tux, close at hand. All I want is enough warning to get changed and make a drink, so that I can go out onto my patio and become one with the early plasma. I’m within fireball radius of 5 major targets, so I’m all set for getting the hell out of here in the first wave.

It wasn’t survivable yesterday, isn’t today, and won’t be tomorrow. I wish they’d get that through their heads…

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Twice bitten, permanently shy.

earthling1's picture

that you will find just as many people that are convinced the earth is flat.
Maybe if we rope ourselves over the edge and hide underneath we will miss it all?

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9 users have voted.

After six years, still getting robo-calls from Marriot Hotels.
They're like herpes.

I am honestly blown away that ANYONE thinks escalating this war is a good idea. WTF is wrong with people? You really think putin won't use nukes? I'm not willing to bet my life (or anyone else's) on it. AND I have very little doubt usa would retaliate if he did. Where does it end? No place good.

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7 users have voted.

If it was easy, everyone would do it.

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@Crazytimes ...I'm hoping he's sane enough to just launch whatever their version of Seal Team 6 is at these psychopaths. If he really did ANY of the things they've accused him of doing to the US, they'd fold. I mean really, why THE HELL would nuclear war be acceptable but not THAT?

Annihilate everyone, nobody panics because it's all Part of the Plan. Kill a handful of people who everyone knows actually deserve it, and EVERYONE LOSES THEIR MINDS!!!

The closest thing to a nice thing about the NeoCons is that everything they say and do is basically just weakly-coded instructions for how they want their own Crazy-Pills administered.

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3 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the one-eyed man is declared insane when he speaks of colors.

To paraphrase Jodie Foster: Human is not something to aspire to, it's something to get away from.

@chknltl Glad to see you here. I so enjoyed the experience of being a member of that community, and miss it a great deal.

As for the instant topic you bring up, I know something about strike planning, not only from studying 20th century wars for several years, beginning as a teenager, getting a degree in modern world history, but also having some relevant training for several years after. I may be long out of date because I'm a grouchy old man now, but I contend cities will be primary targets in a nuclear war. There are several reasons for this.

Lines of communication are centralized in cities. As Eisenhower believed, throughput is everything in making and winning war. Therefore, port facilities, railheads, major airports, fuel depots, energy grids, major bridges, and communications centers have to go. These are invariably associated with or near major cities. Command centers also have to go (this is called decapitation). Is there anyone who thinks the Pentagon wouldn't be a target? New York, Los Angeles, Chicago, Dallas, Seattle, cities are the major centers of logistics and the economic support for war making. It is simply wishful thinking to believe they are not targets in a major nuclear war. I think one mistake made in the analysis that one cannot afford to "waste" nuclear weapons on cities, is probably based on analyses of WWII saturation bombing strategy pursued by the Allies in Europe, which was proven to be relatively ineffective, with Germany still having an industrial capacity largely intact after a massive saturation bombing campaign largely targeted on cities. This is in fact true. However, the destructive power of nuclear weapons resolves this "problem."

The precision of warheads is evolving so that one doesn't need to expend the lion's share of delivery systems on a remote fields of ICBM launchers. In fact, fixed land based ICBMs are regarded as obsolete by many strategic war planners for this very reason. It is true that many military facilities may be located in remote regions, but nuclear war planners who think these will be taken out surgically in a nuclear war that doesn't target urban infrastructure is simply making assumptions based on personal bias common to those who work in the business. Think of the major urban areas that have military industrial infrastructure associated with them. There are also major military bases and industries that have urban infrastructure grow up around them.

In fact, if one considers certain features of modern strategy, economic and financial centers, would be primary targets. What I call the restrained nuclear war, what Kissinger called limited nuclear war in a book he wrote a long time ago, focuses on military targets. It is an idea that the so called game theorists like to play around with, because the notion of an unrestricted nuclear war is just futile, stupid and impractical and does involve the destruction of major urban centers. The absurd theory goes like this, we can do a limited nuclear first strike, on a country, because they wouldn't dare to retaliate in kind, because our response would be so overwhelming. This is a theory based on psychology. LOL. Limited nuclear strike, and first strike and counterstrike war strategies revolve around these psychological game theories.

I would dispute the contention that a nuclear power such as Russia doesn't still have large thermonuclear warheads, just one of which could vaporize Manhattan or Washington DC inside the beltway.

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studentofearth's picture

Each of us live in different parts of the world with varying risks for direct hits, fall out patterns and long term disruptions of climate and economy. Survival happens. It most likely wont be pleasant. Unique plans are necessary based on personal situation, community preparedness and potential for outside aid efforts.

A lot of effort has been done by individuals and organizations, but our current political and military leaders have been dismantling past safety roadblocks to prevent nuclear war.

A reference from lookout a few months ago.

Not sure if I have shared this article with maps before
US Nuclear Target Map Modern Survival Blog orig 03/18/2015 Last Updated 02/25/2022

‘After 900 nuclear tests on our land, US wants to ethnically cleanse us’: meet the most bombed nation in the world Russia Times Jan 8, 2022

'The most nuclear bombed nation on the planet’ is the unwanted accolade claimed by the Shoshone Native American tribe. This has had devastating effects for the community, and RT spoke with one campaigner fighting for justice.

“They are occupying our country, they are stealing our opportunities and we are expected to die because of that. We are still trying to grapple with and understand what happened to us, and find ways to stop it, correct it and prevent it happening in the future.”

Ian Zabarte’s voice is angry but does not falter as he describes the stark fate of his people, Native Americans who for decades have been - by any measure - subjected to the most unimaginable horrors, all perpetrated by their government in Washington.

The Unmentioned Nuclear War on American Citizens C99 Oct 27, 2018

The video of Setsuko Thurlow included in the diary has been removed by Youtube. Here are two others.

Canadian survivor of Hiroshima bombing to accept Nobel Peace Prize (2.09 min)
But our countries will keep their bombs.

Setsuko Thurlow - Remarks at 2016 Arms Control Association Annual Meeting (51 min)

Edit typo & fix link error

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Still yourself, deep water can absorb many disturbances with minimal reaction.
--When the opening appears release yourself.

QMS's picture

radiation sickness prevention pills in Poland to school children.
Kinda creepy. Maybe tape them under their desks?

Polish teachers have been asked to hand out iodine anti-radiation pills to students in case of emergency. Local officials say they are preparing for a potential nuclear incident

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6 users have voted.

@QMS I am highly allergic to iodine.
I live near the port of Houston, near the world headquarters of Exxon Mobile, NASA, and I tend to think I am well and truly f'cked.
Maybe beer helps? I can dream...

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Pluto's Republic's picture

@on the cusp

....to have on hand. I also coincidently have a converted van parked three stories underground. I live near a nuclear power plant. But I hardly consider this a survival strategy for a nuclear attack.

The only potential survival strategy is to locate oneself outside the US and Canada, as well as Australia and the White indigenous nations of Europe. It's no slam-dunk, however.

Strange how this end has come about. Billions of people had to be made stupid in a relatively short amount of time. Couldn't have been done without advanced electronics.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

@Pluto's Republic the air moves. Fall out will find us all.
For all the good that computers and internet have provided, computers were built by the military. The internet is now a weapon.
Critical thinking is not taught in public schools, and, I would say, is actually discouraged.
When Obama pushed for tactical nuke production, Ds followed suit, and the policy was supported. After all, he won the Nobel Peace Prize.

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travelerxxx's picture

@on the cusp

I live near the port of Houston, near the world headquarters of Exxon Mobile, NASA, and I tend to think I am well and truly f'cked.

There are now even more corporate thieves clustered around Exxon/Mobile. It's a small city of them now. Yes, NASA - big red X on them. Port of Houston - same. A big red X on every state capital in the nation; on every military base; on every refinery; every port; food production and processing centers. I'd say "manufacturing centers," but we no longer really have those.

I wonder about other Western nations... London? Gone for sure. Various places in Germany and France. Israel? Probably gone entirely.

I'm just blocks away from Exxon/Mobile HQ ...maybe a two minute drive if I hit the lights green. The good news is that I doubt we'll even be cognizant of the flash.

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@travelerxxx to starvation and radiation poisoning.
Man, the refineries in Huffman, Highlands, Baytown, Bush Intercontinental Airport...I (and you) are close to all of them.
Hey, pal, let's just have a little toast to instant incineration!
Hope you and your wife are having some good health and good fun!

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travelerxxx's picture

@on the cusp

Yeah, as I mentioned, we'll likely never know what hit us. It's almost funny that I consider that good.

Wife has been going through some major issues for the last several years now. Slowly, things are looking up for her. She's not quite out of the woods...

Within just the last few weeks, I've learned of a condition known to the doctors as Patella alta. Believe me, you don't want this. I'm finally walking without a cane or knee brace, but let me just say that I have a whole new appreciation for folks with knee issues. My case is considered minor (!), but the pain has been enough to nearly cause one to pass out. Finally was able to drive two days ago ...just can't go far - a couple of miles is all I can stand.

Hope you and yours are doing better than us'uns here.

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@travelerxxx That you are mobile at all is remarkable!
Glad your wife's health is improving, slowly, but surely.
I am working at full tilt boogie, Husband is helping me at the office quite a lot. We are very healthy, run and play a lot, all in second-childhood syndrome mode.
To the end, we will make the utmost out of life, every day, an that is all we can do. We, the people, are without any influence. Helpless, hopeless, but if any day gives the chance to make a friend, or learn something new, at least we do not die unloved or ignorant. That, friend, is all we have.
If you need anything, always call.

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travelerxxx's picture

@on the cusp

We are very healthy, run and play a lot, all in second-childhood syndrome mode.

Wow! That's the way to do it.

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mimi's picture

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mimi