Great discussion on money and congress

It’s not Jimmy as much as his guest.

Others here are much better at monetary discussions, but this sure looks spot on from what I understand about MMT and how our government uses it. Since the 60's there has been a push to privatize everything that moves.

Remember when Cheney outsourced the things that the military had done forever and costs went up while services declined. Our National Parks have been given over to a private service industry conglomeration that siphons off money meant for park services into rich corporations pockets. And with the news of the MASSIVE security breach why isn't anyone asking how SolarWinds123 allowed it to happen. During Bush's tenure we found out that there are 800 private companies allowed to spy on us. Remember that the Constitution is just a gawd damned piece of paper and I should have believed him. The actions government have taken kinda proves that don't it?

Our government is corrupt beyond measure and they do not work for us, but rather for their donors. We have known that for some time, but the recent bailouts for we the people have shown just HOW CORRUPT they are.

On MFA people ask how the hell we could implement it on a national level. Seems FDR figured that out when he created Medicare and Social Security out of the blue and gave it to the elderly back then. Lower the age by 10 every year or something.

Look forward to discussing this issue with folks that can add to it. They are laughing their asses off while thousands die every year because of herd immunity and while people lose their businesses, homes, lives while they bail out their donors who did not need it.

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snoopydawg's picture

“We want them infected:” Emails show White House sought to promote spread of COVID-19

From the beginning of the pandemic, the entire response by the US government and political establishment was aimed at preserving the profit interests of major corporations.

This disaster is not the outcome of mere negligence. It is the result of a deliberate policy of sacrificing lives to protect the profit interests of major corporations.

On Wednesday, Politico released a set of documents detailing discussions behind the scenes this summer as the White House, together with the state governors and Congress, oversaw the full reopening of schools and businesses throughout the country in defiance of the warnings of public health experts.

“Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle aged with no conditions etc. have zero to little risk... so we use them to develop herd... we want them infected,” Alexander wrote.

In a separate email, Alexander continued, “So the bottom line is if it is more infectiousness now, the issue is who cares? If it is causing more cases in young, my word is who cares… who cares if we test more and get more positive tests?”

On March 22, New York Times columnist Thomas Friedman declared that the “cure” can’t be “worse than the disease,” arguing that the government should “let many of us get the coronavirus, recover and get back to work.”

A decision was made early on to downplay the danger. In January and February, President Donald Trump, his cabinet and Congress received high-level briefings from the US intelligence agencies, which warned that the pandemic was “the biggest national security threat” of Trump’s presidency.

With the bailout secured, a decision was made to abandon any effort to contain the spread of the pandemic. This policy was agreed to and adopted at the highest levels of the state, involving both political parties and Congress.

The claim that it would be somehow feasible to protect the elderly from COVID-19 amid mass infection of the population has likewise been exposed as a lie. Nearly 40 percent of deaths from COVID-19 have been in nursing homes, which have been turned into death traps for the elderly.

On March 14, the World Socialist Web Site characterized the policies of the ruling classes in response to the COVID-19 pandemic as “malign neglect.”

In September, the World Socialist Web Site explained that “this policy has developed into something even more sinister, what might be termed ‘social euthanasia.’” The WSWS added:

The worker who is no longer able to work is, from the standpoint of the ruling class, less than useless. Not only is he or she not producing profit, but the resources devoted to health care for the elderly are a drain on what could otherwise be spent propping up the markets or financing the war machine.

The ruling elite will not willingly abandon its policy of sacrificing human lives for its own enrichment.

Comments:

This is an indictment of the entire ruling classes in America and elsewhere for knowingly exposing the working class people to Covid-19 infections. For those in power and that includes their sycophants in the media these horrible crimes are necessary sacrifices for keeping the Capitalist profits intact. Now more then ever the international working class must intervene to save their lives and their loved ones from these homicidal policies.

A severe penalty must be paid by the ruling class.

We are witnessing massive crimes against humanity by government and I want to know how the hell this doesn't make us like what Hitler did? Get rid of the undesirables and let gawd sort out the rest. Next up is some type of marker to let people know that you have been vaccinated and now can be a member of society. I recommend having people not vaccinated wearing a Yellow Star. Or those that are they can wear one so that no one forgets that this culling of the herd was deliberate by our own fucking government. And as we just heard they can give us any amount of money they want. That they are lying to us about how concerned they are about the deficit is clear. If they were that concerned then they would raise taxes on the wealthy, stop subsidizing successful corporations and rescind every one of the damned tax schemes where they keep their profits offshore so they are untaxed. This deficit spiel is just that. Bullshit. Right, Jimmy?

Here is another excellent article. This group has been exposing the rotten corruption strewn through the latest stimulus bill. Stimulus. Funny.

https://t.co/jnKghSzhZG?amp=1
Just Calm Down!

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19 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@snoopydawg Rick Santelli, an editor at CNBC, was saying we all need to get it, get over it, go back to work so as not to damage the economy (meaning the stock market, of course).
I am not at all surprised mass infection was openly discussed in the hallowed halls of the government of, by, and for the people.

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12 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

QMS's picture

this is a travesty
against humanity
fight for what is right
in spite of our rulers'
notions

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14 users have voted.

question everything

RantingRooster's picture

kill humanity, at the individual level. While America champions "human rights" around the world, not so much here at home, allowing so many to die, because, well, Capitalism.

Save the "economy", but not society. Where is the "humanity" in that?

Where is the humanity in any of this?

In my own assessment of why we can't have a Medicare for all type system, realistically, we simply do not have enough "resources" to take care of such a large population of sick people.

"Money" and how we pay for it are a mute point. The CARES act proved we can spend money simply by passing the bill through both houses of congress and the president signing the bill into "law".

We simply do not have the resources as a result of the massive amount of hospital consolidations over the last decade has squeezed the "system" to what we are seeing today, underfunded, understaffed, overworked, badly coordinated, "system" that financially traumatizes all who interact with it, not to mention delivers the worst healthcare outcomes of all "developed" nations, as well as being the "unofficial" 3rd leading cause of death to Americans, COVID deaths excluded.

In China, they built a freaking hospital in ten 10 days. Money wasn't an issue, but public health was paramount.

Capitalism has killed the humanity within those in power and we suffer and die for it.

Crazy

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19 users have voted.

C99, my refuge from an insane world. #ForceTheVote

@RantingRooster
A failed economy will kill ten times as many as covid will, from starvation and cold.
Billionair3e governors like J.B. Pritzker can't understand blue collar fears. They have never lacked anything. They never faced even the possibility of starvation or homelessness.

Perhaps foolishly, I think J.B. means well, but just doesn't understand.

EDIT: typo/missing keys/grammer

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12 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

snoopydawg's picture

@RantingRooster

We simply do not have the resources as a result of the massive amount of hospital consolidations over the last decade has squeezed the "system" to what we are seeing today, underfunded, understaffed, overworked, badly coordinated, "system" that financially traumatizes all who interact with it, not to mention delivers the worst healthcare outcomes of all "developed" nations, as well as being the "unofficial" 3rd leading cause of death to Americans, COVID deaths excluded.

A hospital in Chicago just tried to close a hospital that serves the poor/minorities which would have been devastating, but it was deferred for now. But that has been happening everywhere as pointed out because of profits of course. Why are ICU so full as opposed to other countries? Read the article.

But if you are rich your ICU room is waiting so you can skip the ER lines or being coughed on at the Docs office. Just $5k a month gets you an on call physician. Also if you can afford it and people think you are important enough you can get the almost guaranteed cure. Too bad there is no warp speed for getting that out to everyone. My life is just as important as anyone else. They might not think so, but they're sociopaths and their views shouldn't ............never mind. Just tired of this dystopian movie existence.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

snoopydawg's picture

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14 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@snoopydawg
Congress is supposed to be your paid representative, like a lawyer. But "Vote Blue No Matter Who"

On a technical blog somebody referred to Biden as a liberal wanting to socialize everything. I would have corrected him, but what's the use? He wouldn't have believed me if i said that Biden was to the right of Nelson Rockefeller, perhaps even G.H.W. Bush. I don't recall the man with four names suggesting cutting SS or privatizing it.

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13 users have voted.

I've seen lots of changes. What doesn't change is people. Same old hairless apes.

@The Voice In the Wilderness a body of public servants, and money, at least in their pockets, is what they routinely pay themselves. I don't hire them, I occasionally vote one into office on the assumption that person might make a difference in getting people served.
And we all know the problem with assuming!

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

QMS's picture

@on the cusp

of you and me
or some such

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9 users have voted.

question everything

@QMS times I have been betrayed by my pol peeps. The easy count is the ones that didn't. Zero, thus far.

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10 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

thanatokephaloides's picture

@on the cusp

Can't count how many times I have been betrayed by my pol peeps.

6.022E+23. Wink

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"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

thanatokephaloides's picture

@QMS

makes an asterisk
of you and me
or some such

That's "makes an ASS of U and ME".

What you're thinking about is Nathan Hale: "I only regret that I have but one asterisk for my country."

Wink

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6 users have voted.

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

Cant Stop the Macedonian Signal's picture

@The Voice In the Wilderness

They are not our servants. That ship has long sailed.

They are not even our leaders. Leaders, by definition, must lead their people somewhere. Neither can they lead their people to certain destruction, because a leader, being in front, would be the first one over the cliff. Wherever a leader leads his people, it can't be to certain death. The only exception is when a military leader sacrifices himself and his soldiers to preserve the people back home, sacrificing a smaller number of the people to save the rest.

No; these are not public servants or leaders. These are rulers. And rulers, unlike leaders, can be accurately compared to parents.

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"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha

"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver

snoopydawg's picture

@snoopydawg

Or double standards or 2 sets of rules. One for us and one for them. Like Newsom. Cuomo. Lots of other mayors etc.

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6 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

thanatokephaloides's picture

On MFA people ask how the hell we could implement it on a national level. Seems FDR figured that out when he created Medicare and Social Security out of the blue and gave it to the elderly back then. Lower the age by 10 every year or something.

FDR didn't implement Medicare; LBJ did, 30 years later.

And, if I recall correctly, the idea was exactly as you state it: lower the age by 10 years every few years until all were covered.

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12 users have voted.

"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar

"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides

snoopydawg's picture

@thanatokephaloides

And believe it or not I’ve been wrong on it before and someone here already told me that. Sheesh I remembered after reading the article.

Thanks.

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7 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

snoopydawg's picture

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@snoopydawg
on that article. Looks interesting.
I recall tv ads against Medicare in the 60s: god forbid, "socialized medicine:.
Now we have MAGAts bearing signs saying "Keep your govt hands off our Medicare".
Sigh.

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snoopydawg's picture

@pindar's revenge

I got through okay. I followed it from a tweet if it makes any difference. Yes there was a lot of people against it. Just like now.

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4 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@snoopydawg @snoopydawg

get rerun over and over: socialized medicine, trickle-down, etc. And people believe the demonstrably wrong over and over. I wonder what Robert Ardrey or Desmond Morris would offer as explanation? (bleedover from other comments)

I tried the link in a different browser and it didn't trigger the paywall. It helps illuminate why we have this nonsensical system of tying health care to employment. Good read, thanks.

Edit:typo

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a day or so ago. Can't recall ever hearing of Dore's guest before, but he did make money and MMT understandable.
I should have spent some time during my decade of higher education learning something more about economics, but it was only a topic tangentially studied as it related to history. Several of my history profs were so anti-communist that I actually spent some free time studying and getting a true picture of the socialist theory of, keeping it simple, spreading the wealth.

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9 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

particularly about how the AMA has played a roll in killing poor people. For a long time.

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7 users have voted.

"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

@on the cusp

and has turned into pure evil. Did you read the whole article above at the source? Societal eugenics.

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5 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@snoopydawg
I am never surprised when government does something murderous.
I was very surprised by the murderous attitude of the AMA, dedicated to doing no harm while getting fabulously wealthy.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

lotlizard's picture

@snoopydawg  
will, as everyone knows, be met with a wave of flying monkeys alleging antisemitism.

“Hasbara” and “sayanim” are terms and concepts that are hardly ever dealt with in mass media and are not “top of mind” for the average voter, though they need to be if one is to understand Washington D.C.’s continued prioritization of Israel over its own people.

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Not too off topic, really. It is a good example of why we just do not have helicopter money for us, but plenty for corporations and Israel.
We never come up short for those two.

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

@on the cusp

He’s busy tweeting about what congress needs to do after Johnson blocked the bill after the tax cut he got, but he didn’t bring this to our attention for some reason. Hmmm I wonder why not?

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

@snoopydawg He was coming up with an amendment for something?

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"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981

snoopydawg's picture

I love the double take the guy on the motorcycle does. lol.

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Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

travelerxxx's picture

@snoopydawg

Amazing it's taken so long for this to get figured out.

One thing, though... I'm betting the streamlining rider hasn't had a hernia repair or two. Personally, I'd be in a heap-o-trouble if I tried that.

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snoopydawg's picture

@travelerxxx

while maintaining his balance has to be incredible. And the motorcycle guy did it too just like that. If I breath heavier in one lung I fall over. No way I'd do that.

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5 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

mimi's picture

causes capitalism? Got confused about it and don't remember anymore what triggered this question. Some sentence in some book introduction.

Good Morning. In my part of the woods it is already Sunday.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

Question answered; I wish we could DELETE posts here.

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In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

mimi's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat
to delete your own posted comments, that was a long time ago. I don't know if JtC still asks us to adhere to that standard. I caused some here to shout at me "eh, eh I saw that you changed your comment". Bad girl that I am.

Just wanted to know if my question triggered a response by you that you wanted to delete. Or if this was directed at someone else's comment.

I did not mean to upset anyone with my question, just saw that question somewhere in a book.
Peace.

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@mimi I was halfway through the video and paused to post a question LITERALLY just before they were about to clarify it.

Your 'riddle' is a good one, actually!

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3 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

mimi's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat

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The Liberal Moonbat's picture

I just started watching a long video by Richard Wolff - and HE quoted the same statistic this guy did:

There is an economic crisis 4 to 7 years.

Anyone have any idea what would/should be special about 4-7 years???

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2 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!

snoopydawg's picture

@The Liberal Moonbat

Before 2007-8 the last economic crash was back in the 20's and then they did Glass Steagal to keep the banks from doing it again. Then it only took a decade for another crash after Clinton rescinded it. The 08 bailout was the greatest transfer of cash up till congress did it again.

The thing is that the economy was going to do what it is doing long before COVID was known, but hey let's not let a good crisis go to waste and so they have been bailing them out by propping them up with TRILLIONS. No one knows the current amount, but during 0's tenure they received $29 TRILLION while Zero watched as close to 10 million lost their homes.

But as I previous wrote, 0 gave Blackstone subsidies to buy up foreclosed homes for pennies on the dollar which drove up rents and the housing market because they kept them off it.

Biden has put Blackstone back in his cabinet and he is very excited cuz it's gonna happen again. This is an all out assault on people's money. Wiping out what people have in their homes every decade or 2 sure keeps people's lives absolutely f'cked up.

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6 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

travelerxxx's picture

@snoopydawg

... The thing is that the economy was going to do what it is doing long before COVID was known, but hey let's not let a good crisis go to waste and so they have been bailing them out by propping them up with TRILLIONS.

Wall Street On Parade has been all over this. There are enough articles that I can't link to just one or two. Bottom line is that the mega banks were getting bailed out many months before the pandemic. WSOP was covering it in real time. I'm not even talking about the Great Recession bailouts. The Covid "relief" bills have now provided cover for the whole mess. The amount of money involved is beyond comprehension.

Search for "Repo loan" articles prior to Feb., 2020, but after the first quarter of 2019.

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snoopydawg's picture

@travelerxxx

I’ve been reading this site since Joe introduced it to me. Great stuff there that shows how much it’s been rigged. This is where I got the $29 million during Zero's tenure.

Thanks

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4 users have voted.

Scientists are concerned that conspiracy theories may die out if they keep coming true at the current alarming rate.

Lookout's picture

@travelerxxx @snoopydawg

Fed creates currency for banks to loan to corporations at 0% in order to buy their own stock and drive the market. As Max is fond of saying, "You can't tapper a Ponzi", and this will not end well. Hang on....

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4 users have voted.

“Until justice rolls down like water and righteousness like a mighty stream.”

The Liberal Moonbat's picture

@snoopydawg He said there'd been 11 "economic downturns" since FDR and Keynes first tried to set up a system to prevent them.

I assume you're talking about different things.

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2 users have voted.

In the Land of the Blind, the One-Eyed Man is declared mentally ill for describing colors.

Yes Virginia, there is a Global Banking Conspiracy!