The condescending style of the Clinton people and this fall
So a good guy, Teacherken, writes the latest in a sequence of diaries essentially saying the Sanders people should all give up. The tenor is all the same: we told you he would lose.
Now most of these people never thought Sanders would break 30, so the idea the know something we don't is absurd. We long since outperformed their wildest expectations.
So I wrote this:
No it really is. Profoundly condescending.
You know, and maybe this will come as a shock to you, but we Sanders supporters can do math.
All of us have always known this was a long shot. Why people think they are telling us something we don’t know is a mystery to me.
I have been running delegate projections here, which includes an online model of every CD in the Democratic Primary since November.
And I don’t know why people who supported Clinton, who almost to a person completely underestimated him, now think their political acumen is better than those of us who worked for Sanders when not one of them would have dreamt he would win anything.
Even the electability argument is missing since Sanders runs better that Clinton against Trump and Cruz in most of the polling over the last month.
Those of us who worked for Sanders knew that we were building something far beyond this election. Something not reliant on big money from rich donations. A different type of politics.
IF we fail, we still will have accomplished a lot.
But that is OUR accomplishment, not yours. It is based on a read of modern politics very different from your own. Rather than trying to give a well meaning but counter-productive lecture here is a suggestion:
Try listening.
Try understanding that an entire generation is rejecting politics as usual. Try listening to us explain why so many in that generation find Clinton so unappealing. She is going to need those votes in the fall: I see nothing that you have written here that tries to figure out how she reaches those people.
I know these lectures mean well — but you can’t begin to understand how they appear to Sanders supporters. Honestly, if you did people here wouldn’t be writing things like this.
You would start by listening: but that would mean you would really think this is over.
And I don’t think you do.
Comments
Teacherken was a real shock
I never thought he would be a DNC sellout - until he did sell out.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Everybody's got their price.
Don't know what his was, but I'm under the assumption it was fairly high.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
I think there is a reflex
among some people with Clinton. They became so used to defending them from absurd shit from the right, that they forget the policy differences they have with them.
But there is another dimension here: for liberals over 50 there is a common belief that a liberal can't win. They are forever talking about McGovern - if that election has any relevance to today. But to them it is defining: there are forever justifying things moderate Democrats do under the belief that liberals can't win.
They also forget that COINTELPRO
was in full force at that time, dedicated to rooting out and destroying Liberals.
So, in a sense, yes, they're correct in that Liberals can't win a rigged and unfair election.
Which of course shows great awareness of our current elections...
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
McGovern kept switching positions
I supported him, and I couldn't keep track or follow the logic.
Bernie is nothing like McGovern.
Teacherken's turn is sharper than most think.
He has often touted his confluence with Quaker values yet chooses the hawk to represent his goals?
This election is revealing a lot in the very starkest light. Historians will have a field day with 2016, for the brief period that we all survive.
All I can think when you say that..
about him being a Quaker is yeah, well, so was Nixon. I am awful. LOL
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
A friend in Ohio goes to Quaker Services
There was apparently much discussion amongst the people she knows of strategically voting for HRC and Kasich to stop Trump. It makes no sense to me, but I believe her.
This election
has psychohistorians scratching their heads. Deviation Blue is off the charts.
We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act, but a habit.--Aristotle
If there is no struggle there is no progress.--Frederick Douglass
I called him out on that in a
I called him out on that in a comment, I think it was his second ImWithHer post. Forgot what his Defies Logic reply was, shoulda 'saved' it. Its just amazing to me the lengths people will go in betraying their so called principles.
lol I have to laugh at myself
lol I have to laugh at myself sometimes. a) I found it and b) I am soooo conflict-averse & non confrontational in general but really so in this here! "called him out" HA HA HA no I did not but anyway... just for the record...
a one issue voter?
Is he saying he's an Education Issue voter above all else, and if so why isn't Bernie's free college something he can get behind? And exactly what is it that 'Clinton seems to get in a way that few other major politicians have." Over the years I found his diaries informative and thoughtful but stopped reading them when he got the Hillary bee in his bonnet. It would seem from his earlier pieces that he was connected to folks in education on a national level, and has been officially recognized for his work in that area by the establishment. In a sense he is part of that club and perhaps proclaiming his support for the establishment candidate is a way of repaying them for bestowing their honors upon him and hoping for more to come? QPQ. Just some thoughts connected with trying to understand why my very best friend is a Hillary supporter, who is of the age / financial status / educational focus / ethnic & political background as Ken. Frustrating to say the least.
Not to mention,
Hillary is all about charters and privatizing our public k-12 schools - just like Obama. I am surprised at how surprised people are by Ken. I've always found him to be pompous as hell. I never read his diaries.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
That is absurd!
Ha ha ha ha ha! He might as well have said my sense of Quaker values is not defined by issues. LOL.
I shave my legs with Occam's Razor~
his sense of Quaker values is not defined.
Especially the issue which has defined just who is, and is not, a Quaker as long as there have been Quakers: peace!
Sheesh, some people.....
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
that is a convoluted answer
Since when was Clinton better on education than Sanders? I am trying to understand this but I do not get it.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
You're not SUPPOSED to get it...
If you can't blind em with Brilliance, Baffle em with Bullshit.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cvt-3ecFj5g]
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
lol /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
TeacherKen
I knew when TeacherKen went all in for HRC a few months ago that
this #Bernie thing would be even more difficult. I still cannot comprehend
how a site that is ddicated to electing "more and better Dems" could
possibly support HRC, but there it is. This "Bernie thing," of course,
goes way beyond Nov., win or lose, so we truly are just getting started.
Let people in your cd know that we're just getting started and 2018 awaits.
And, to that end we really Do need to get better organized for the remainder
of this race and 2018.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
That changed. The site is now dedicated to electing
"Centrist Dems"
I have made a point of reading Teacherken for years,
and I was surprised and disappointed that he threw in with the Hillary crowd. After reading of his medical problems and his journey through teaching, one would think he would have realized that the Clinton's were just as much a part of our dreary medical system, the assault on public education and every other GD thing that they could turn a buck at as the rest of the corporate sell-outs.
I am not surprised, though.
I couldn't even click on it. In fact, I think I must have tried to pretend I didn't see it and succeeded, because I never did read it. I'm sure not going to, either, since what I'm reading describes exactly what I thought it was--the ultimate in sanctimonious flapdoodle from a pompous, self-aggrandizing, fishbowl-dwelling hack writer. If I never see his name again, it will be too soon. Perhaps MB will finally get the old heave-ho and they'll turn that jackass back onto the FP...UGH!
That condescending arrogance
That condescending arrogance amongst the pro-establishment, pro Hillary camp, that will turn younger voters off of bothering to vote, or send them to the independent voter block at best, but the Democrats who seem to not care also do not think enough of the younger voters to care apparently. The way things are going, the two parties we have known for the past 100 years may well have cut their own throats.
They will become the party of the old fogeys. Instead of trying to cram an unacceptable by many candidate down our throats as they have using all the tools and tricks they can to stop the candidate so many want, is a path towards eventual irrelevancy.
Embracing and encouraging the Millennials and younger Generation X-ers would be a step to making a more invigorated party, support for actual Progressives, that means both progressively on social as well as financial and foreign policies is what we need.
The present Neo-liberal socially progressive while fiscally conservative to make the people vote for them with the right wing shift this country has been forced into is turning our youth away from the parties they see as corrupt, failing, and not working for the people.
There have been pieces about the Republicans imploding and eating each other, but it is also happening to the democratic party as well.
It is like watching two ships that fought and both sinking with the one captain pointing at the other and saying "Ha we won!" while ignoring his own fate.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
I think they
are scared of the conversation, and hope that it all passes.
Because their politics doesn't fit. Really the Clinton campaign is the last gasp of 80's politics. They don't have much to say that is taken seriously among the young.
I know that Millennials are a big story of this election, but
please remember the older, discarded, and disaffected lefties who've come back to life--and to this fight--with energy and commitment to the next generations. Mid-60s woman here who's solidly with Sanders.
Here and at the reddit subthread, you'll see statements from voters in their 50s, 60s, and older that they will never vote for HRC. I'm among them. I lived through the '80s and have no wish to revisit them, or to visit them upon anyone else. The country needs to swing left to get back on a morally "right" path. That can't happen with Hillary Clinton in any position of power. Progressives must come together and join hands across the generations. It's my fervent hope that Sanders' campaign is laying the foundation for that to happen.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Another mid-60s woman Phoenix here
Heading out to my first Bernie volunteer training in Santa Cruz, CA tomorrow. I am ashamed to say it but all the Hubbub at the GOS got me out of the online support world and riled up enough to engage "across the generations" in this fight again - I will give Markos that.
Bernie Sanders is the candidate saying things I've been waiting to hear since Shirley Chisholm didn't win the Dem primary in 1972 (my first Presidential election). My loyalty to the Democratic Party over the years has gotten me Hippie Punched by the Best - Bill Clinton and Obama. Why is it exactly that I would want to stick around to get beat up again by someone who isn't really very good at this politicking stuff?
Same here
I am a female in her late 60's and there is no way I can vote for Clinton. A real defining time for me was being associated with our local Occupy group and talking with the millennials in it. They were a very impressive bunch and climate change was their number one issue. I realized that my decisions should be based upon the future for our younger generations, especially these incredibly intelligent and thoughtful millennials that I met.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Well said
Am another mid-60s woman who's a Bernie supporter and in absolute agreement with you on the need for Progressives of all generations to reach out to one another. I've also had plenty of other people my age rattle on about the need for a woman president and my response is always it's too bad that HRC isn't the right woman (though she does hawkishly lean too far right). Even the logo seen on some of her buttons and signs has an arrow that points to the right as you face them, like she's taunting us.
As far as Teacherken and others that I've seen mention "Quaker values" as a positive, it makes me cringe at the concept Quakers are Big Business people too: who do you think founded banks like Barclay's and Lloyd's and a host of other prominent companies, financial and otherwise. Many aspects of those Quaker values and their practices are what Bernie is against and so using the phrase as a one dimensional value is rather disingenuous and misleading. Maybe that's the point?
I'll take Bernie any day and am with him as far as he chooses to go.
"So it goes."
Kurt Vonnegut
Last gasp of the baby boomers
before they pass into political irrelevance.
I look forward to undoing all of the damage they have managed to do to the country.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
Whoa on the baby boomer thing, too much of a
generalization. Every generation has it's dupes, every generation has people that work toward justice and truth. Whatever generation you're from will have the same problems, too many ignorant people.
Wasn't us Boomers
that fucked it up, screwed the pooch. Blame the Birchers. The Birchers
(Koch Bros' clan) have been working on dismantling the FDR "safety net"
since the '30s. Said if it took a hundred years it would take a hundred
years. Only took them 70 years. Yes, while we boomers were busy
climbing the corporate ladder and raising you Millenials the Birchers
continued to chip away at that saftey net, virtually unnoticed. We kept
saying, ah, it's only one small chip, no big deal. It took the G. Dubya
regime for us to recognize that all those little tiny chips had damn near
chopped down the entire tree. It was a Bircher stealth operation from
the very beginning. We Boomers didn't see it coming becuz they ran
their operation very well. Totally under the radar. It took fuckups like
G. Dubya and Darth Cheney to expose it, and by then it was almost too
late. Almost. We boomers still fight to save the day, still #FeelTheBern.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Plenty of great boomers
Plenty of awful boomers too.
The real estate speculators, the rent takers, and the fuckers eating their own children and grandchildren.
The people who complain about everyone they left behind.
Thanks for not sucking like they do..
prog - weirdo | dog - woof
They had a long-term plan and started with school boards and
city councils, a top-funded bottom-up take-over. They were patient, persistent, and disciplined, something Democrats in the "not so big anymore tent" famously are not but need to be to organize and stay committed for the major changes so desperately needed.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Actually we Baby Boomers
Came of age with a lot of hope and enthusiasm. We were fighting for racial and gender equality, trying to stop the Vietnam war, and being beaten in the streets and killed on college campuses for fighting the establishment. Did we make mistakes? Sure! Among the largest was being demoralized and frightened by the murders of our people at Kent State. I myself was shocked on the campus of the University of Oklahoma when hundreds (thousands?) of us protesting were faced down by Oklahoma State Troopers in riot gear backed up by the National Guard. In the front of our ranks were the people in wheelchairs and women, who they promptly set about beating and knocking over. If you've never been in such a situation, please don't tell me how fucking lame you think we Boomers are.
Another thing we didn't know about was the insidious behind-the-scenes processes that were occurring in response to the deplorable Lewis Powell's memo. The gradual takeover of the MSM, the elimination of unions, the discarding of pensions for 401Ks, the secretive work to destabilize South American countries, and on and on and on, just a tiny piece at a time that we now all know about, but didn't know then. Sure a lot of Boomers went along to get along, but a lot of us didn't. In reality, it is mostly "The Greatest Generation," i.e., the one just before us, that put all this bullshit into play and didn't mind killing us to make certain we didn't change things.
Don't kid yourself that everyone in your generation won't play their game, because probably 30 or 40 percent will. A huge advantage that you have, that we didn't, is the internet. Combine it with Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit and use it all well, but please don't try to lay all our current problems on us Boomers as a group. Personally, I've tried to fight the progressive fight all my life, and I'm tired and beat up from it. Take the torch and run with it, please.
Baby Boomers
You voiced my thoughts perfectly, ChemBob! Many thanks!!
A shout out for LieparDestin's excellent BNR. Every fan of the Bernster needs to check it daily.
Inner and Outer Space: the Final Frontiers.
You remember it very differently than I do
I remember your entire generation shitting all over us before we even got out of high school. You could walk into any bookstore in America in the early-80's and see an entire cottage industry build around slamming us as "Slackers" as we were told "There is room to move up as a fry-cook". We are the first generation to have a lower standard of living than our parents and your generation assured themselves that it was all our fault.
It wasn't the birchers that came up with the two-tier wage scale, and from what I saw, your generation couldn't pull the economic ladder up behind them fast enough.
There is a reason that GenX is the most conservative generation - We rejected boomers for a reason - all we saw were your excesses, and most of your "achievements" were done by others. The boomers didn't stop the war in Vietnam (although it is an article of faith among you that you did) - it was the Silent Generation asking why their kids were coming back in boxes. No one in positions of power took any of your marches and such seriously. Perhaps if they hadn't dressed like refugees from a Grateful Dead concert, they might have had a little more success when dealing with people in power.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
Interesting, the lenses we bring to bear on our world
I worked briefly with a "kid" 20-25 yrs younger than I am, an educated conservative. We argued about Bush II's preemptive war on Iraq. The young R insisted WMDs would be found, insisted that Saddam had something to do with 9/11, derided me for mentioning the profitability of war and Bush's backers and how millions always disappear through the Pentagon's audit-less siphons. He was stunned; I apparently was unpatriotic. He had a lot of support in that office among his peers. It worried me, that attitude among young people his age, and I hoped it wasn't a majority view. (This was in the DC metro area.)
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Each generation
Each generation rejects the previous one for their own reasons. My daughter is a gen-x. I'm sure she would relate to much of what you say. Rather than argue, let me assure you there are many boomers who agree with you to some degree and are on your side. If you think you've been screwed, look at the millennials. Generation Z will be lucky if they have food or a planet. They'll probably blame you.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Respectfully disagree...
Wow, how totally different you view is from this one who lived there; sharing, throwing off material goods and fighting in the streets, closing down universities, shouting from the rooftops, "No More War."
Your statement perplexes me and I think you miss the real target of your anger, the right-wing conservative movement, that even the influential William F. Buckley could not stop; led in part by the conservative icon Richard Viguerie.
And I have an opinion; i saw the younger generation coming up behind me as having been raised in fear by parents propagandized into being afraid of the Civil Rights and anti-war movements. The same fear permeates the fabric of today's politics, grown worse, it seems during these 'triumphant' times where the third way exposes an echo of the moderate Republican philosophy of those times, at best.
He is painting with a broad brush, smiley, but...
The right-wing conservative movement was full of boomers too. Not all boomers are good, protested, or fought to end the war. Remember the yuppies? Even during the 60s, we had what I call polyester hippies. You know, Tom Brokaw in a Nehru jacket and long hair. You had hippies and then you had people making a fashion statement trying to be cool. They didn't buy the values, only the clothes. Yes, some genx were brought up by these people and others were brought up by people like you. They are all different too.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
oh no, ugly ... /nt
https://www.euronews.com/live
Wow!
I wish I could tell you what I thought about your degradation of an entire generation of people based on your blinder-based vision, but I don't want to get banned from here in addition to DKos. I probably remember it very differently than you do because I was there and you weren't.
We were the children of the "utterly silent" generation that were dying by the droves in Vietnam. We fought and so did our parents to put an end to the war and to the draft, so your generation wasn't forced to serve like we were. We lost 50,000 people in that war that you seem to dismiss so easily.
I never called anyone a slacker who wasn't a slacker and it's never occurred to me to paint a generation of people with such a broad brush. Regarding the "economic ladder," I never had one and still don't. I'm drawing a pittance of social security and teaching part-time at two different colleges to keep a roof over my head and my gf's (and our cats).
About that, "fry cook" job...Do you actually think you were too good to do that kind of work? If so, it's because my generation spoiled the asses off you kids and you expected to walk into the world as professionals without doing any work to get there. I worked slicing meat in a sandwich shop, I spent about three years straddling degreasing vats and welding wire racks together, I counted anesthetized fruit flies for a year, I spent a few years grinding coal into a fine powder with limited respiratory protection, all to try to make a living and raise my kids and try to go to college part time at the same time.
The protests were taken very seriously, btw, as were the marches to end minority discrimination, and there was a bunch of overlap at times. I don't know why I'm even trying to explain this to you, it's probably pointless.
You need to get over your ageist prejudice though, I'll tell you that much.
children of the silent generation
Often times, side-by-side. My first protest action was at my mother's side at age 7 in 1965, against the bombing of Cambodia. And my efforts to end the draft only bore fruit just in time to spare me from being compelled to serve in the military. So I thank you, my mother, and all of my other elders who joined with me in that struggle.
Eventually, my local recruiters informed me that I was "Physically Unsuited For Military Life", a designation which makes common sense. Even at 17, my ability to run petered out at roughly a click (1KM) at best. And you needed to be able to run a continuous mile, and that under 6 minutes.
I am totally familiar! As I pointed out in another comment, I'm just old enough to remember what an actually functional American economy was like, but too young to have participated in it as an adult.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
Every generation has its story.
Every person has their story. It is his opinion. As we age, we all see things from a differently. It is how it works. Lecturing and admonishing him and his generation is exactly what he said boomers did to genx. You prove him right. If you talked to me like that, I certainly would tune you out.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
We still have some big nos. and will be around, and voting
and maybe organizing, for a good few years yet. And we have some wisdom to share--e.g., about how not to be co-opted. That is the insidious route to irrelevance, used by the powerful to remain powerful with make-nice around the margins.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Whoa!
I am on the very front end of the baby boom. To blame all of us is to paint with a very broad brush. Stereotyping does no one any good. We all bring something to the table, even us old farts.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I agree, gulfgal
And ya gave me bit of a snicker. I'm a late-boomer. Too late for affordable college and decent wages, yet too early to sit on my ass playing vid games and watching 500 channels (hell, we only got two when I was a kid) while bitching that Daddy didn't buy me a new converrtable this month. They cancelled Nam in my last month of boot camp. When I got out GI Bill barely covered books, tuition, and a bit of gas (35 miles to nearest college). 40 hour job got rent food and utilities so I became a taxi service for the rest of my gas.
Yes some of the Boomers crapped on the system, but it was the majority that was just stuck in the dung heap trying to keep their heads above it from the previous generations. That's why I blame GenXers. While they were busy sponging off mom and pop and bitching it wasn't enough, they actually had time and means to effect a change. But, y'know, twitter and cat lol takes precedence!
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
Generational infighting just serves one group.
The 1%.
The young need to learn from those with experience, and sometimes the elder generation needs a reminder that things have changed.
As long as we keep fighting with each other over who has it worse, the 1% happily reward their dynasties with cush jobs and perks that the vast majority of us will never see, all the while pointing to us and saying "See, they're Lazy!" or "See, THEY'RE the reason you don't have a good job."
The truth is, it's the 1%. It's always been the 1%, and always WILL be them as long as they can keep us fighting with each other while they run off with all the fucking money.
I do not pretend I know what I do not know.
Hear, hear.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
I agree dm
I purposely painted with the stereotypical broad brush in validation of and defiance of previous posts alone this subthread. Knowing what I posted has a grain of truth doesn't mean it is wholesale, across the board truth. I know there're a few good young'uns out there, just not many.
And like I say, I'm the King of Hyperbole! ( see?)
There is no such thing as TMI. It can always be held in reserve for extortion.
You can say that again.
A bunch of boomers lecturing him and telling him how uninformed, wrong, and unappreciative he and his generation are only proves his point.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
late-boomers
That's me, too:
On April 29, 1975, the day Saigon fell, I was a junior in high school. I thought my miss of having to go fight in Viet Nam was close, but you've definitely got me trumped there!
We are just old enough to remember the last genuinely operational American economy, but not old enough to have tasted of it as adults ourselves.
"US govt/military = bad. Russian govt/military = bad. Any politician wanting power = bad. Anyone wielding power = bad." --Shahryar
"All power corrupts absolutely!" -- thanatokephaloides
You're right, that
"they are scared of the conversation, and hope that it all passes."
But that's for a reason--for decades, since the DLC infiltrated the Dem Party and took it over, they've managed to manipulate some segments of the Dem Party Base. They still do.
But some Boomers (like myself) haven't fallen for it.
Since the Dean campaign was intentionally derailed by the Dem Establishment, all of my family members changed their party affiliation to Independent.
My concern is that FSC will manage to garner 'just enough' votes to rob Bernie of the nomination (with the help of the Dem Party Establishment and the Clinton Machine).
Frankly, I'm in the camp that believes that Trump could possibly beat FSC.
OTOH, I'm tired of voting for the LOTE.
Mollie at C99P & Daily Kos
elinkarlsson@WordPress
"We must stop looking for our salvation in strong leaders. Strong people, as Ella Baker said, do not need strong leaders. Politicians, even good politicians, play the game of compromise and are too often seduced by the privileges of power.
. . . Integrity and courage are powerful weapons. We have to learn how to use them."--Chris Hedges, Journalist, Author & Activist
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
if bernie is denied the nomination, trump WILL beat shill.
& that's b/c few, if any, young voters will be motivated to vote for her--& a whole lot of not-so-young voters will remember the needlessly dirty campaign she waged against bernie, & be reluctant to do so as well--& she simply cannot win with just minority votes & diehard party loyalists b/c there's not enuf of them, even if they turnout in the #s they're boasting they will: nationally, minorities are only 25% of the electorate, & democrats are only 29%--& that's if 100% of them actually vote--which ain't gonna happen, especially with all the voter suppression laws that've been passed in a lot of states.
shill had a choice to make in how she ran her campaign...she chose the scorched earth one...& she'll have to pay for it at the convention.
And
the ridiculously dirty campaign against Obama in 08. Hard to believe but that was even dirtier.
It's true right now like it was back then. The old devils are at it again. When I say devil you know who I mean these animals in the dark malicious politicians with nefarious schemes charlatans and crooked cops. - 'Old Devils' William Elliot Whitmore
Thanks for the intellectual honesty
About the election math.
You capture the zeitgeist.
They are whistling past the graveyard.
That Old Dem Party
The under 30 crowd doesn't give a damn about party labels.
The Dem party we once knew and loved - the one now supporting
HRC - is dead. No longer exists as it once did. DWS running
the DNC is all we need to know about the "Democratic party."
As such, our Mission, should we choose to accept it, is to build
a new party. There's no sense bringing new people into the old
Dem party becuz, as it exists, is irrelevant. Bring them into the
new Dem party - the #Bernie wing of the Democratic party.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Have you noticed
the weird thread that runs through a lot of the football-spiking comments on the other place, (now that the rabble have been pruned back)?
"Well, Bernie's never really been one of us!" and "He's not a real Democrat, so the hell with him!".
It really does seem like a little club that they're so proud of that they imagine people are lined up wanting to join. Very off-putting attitude.
And I say that as someone who has never been registered as anything else for 40+ years.
They've said that all along
It's all about the brand, not at all about policies or personalities. If you don't wear your (D) openly and proudly, go away, don't bother them.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
it's tribalist pinheadery, and deflection to boot.
the same people -- or at least the same sort of people -- were adamant 16 years ago (and ever since) that Nader's essential crime was running as an independent instead of a Democrat. if only he'd run as a Democrat, they said, they'd have been totally cool with him. yeah -- because they assumed then, as they assume now, that having a left-wing voice in a Democratic primary would function as a low-key and ultimately ignorable safety valve for left-wing resentment. "Okay, fine, you had your say, you presented your philosophy, the voters rejected it, now act like adults and get behind the nominee."
the problem for them is that Sanders is getting too many votes -- not only is his campaign not ignorable, but it quite clearly will not be a safety valve.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I don't think it's up to us Boomers to make a new Party
It's up to our Millennial kids to make a political statement and assume power to take our country the way they desire. Then we follow.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
We agree.
I keep telling the young folk that the future belongs to them and that they need to stand up and take it!
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I also agree very much
It is their future, they are very smart, and they know what they want. I want them to lead the way and I will gladly follow and do what I can to help them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Yes, I will do what I can to help.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
Agree - almost 41 years away from being 30
and a proud Independent, since the Clintons & their DLC took over the Democratic party. Clinton's showed from their first day in WH it was gong to be about them, their power, their access to "real" money. They'd say anything, do anything, to advance their own political viability. First Dick Morris polling where they should go on vacation, seriously, they went horseback riding out West - the pics are priceless. Now to working with David Brock - no morality, and no shame.
Still think Bob Herbert nailed it years ago, we should've listened: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/02/26/opinion/in-america-cut-him-loose.html
Now it's "Cut THEM Loose." If Bernie doesn't get the nomination, we get President Trump, or worse, Cruz, Kasich. Blame falls squarely on DWS/DNC/DLC/Third Way/super pacs/super delegates. Clinton has been obsessed with her political agenda, first woman POTUS all her life, and acted accordingly, selling out on everything, to forward that agenda. This is literally her last chance, and her campaign shows it. Scorched earth, and more.
Only bright side I see, is a Trump victory destroys the Republican party establishment, and takes the Democratic party out of the clutches of the Clintons.
Short term consequence, to be able to create a real Democratic party. Remember, it was Obama who made Rahm COS, and Geithner Secy Treasury. Sold out ACA to Lieberman, Max Baucus, et al. We got scraps, and no gov negotiating drug prices for anyone on Medicare. Now he wants all to "kumbaya" & support Clintons. Nope. Not this time. This election is different. Aware of consequences, SCOTUS, weighed that, will not vote for Clintons.
Problem is, if HRC is the nominee and loses to Trump,
her supporters will learn nothing from it, anymore than they learned anything from the Nader 2000 outcome.
Just as they blame Nader for the Bush presidency, and they blame pouty pony-wanting purists for the 2010 debacle, they will blame pouty Sanders supporters for a 2016 HRC fail. They are not educable on this. They simply refuse to recognize the fundamental character of the American electorate in general and the Democratic electorate in particular. No substantial fraction of voters stays home in a purity snit. Legions of not-particularly-engaged voters stay home unless you can engage them -- and running the same old candidates on the same old BS will not engage them.
The best hope HRC has is that millions of unlikely-voter women, screened out by the pollsters, get up on the first Tuesday in November and decide, "What the hell, let's make history" and go down to the polls to vote for HRC's gonads. The problem with that hope is that HRC's campaign people have no fucking clue that this is her best hope.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
They are like the Boubon dynasty
They learn nothing and forget nothing.
I meant to say that stupid people are generally Conservative. I believe that is so obviously and universally admitted a principle that I hardly think any gentleman will deny it."
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)
That's one of the hopeful signs I see--young voters are
paying attention to principles, platform, and person, not party or other label. As they should. I see no value whatsoever in "more Dems" unless they're also "better Dems." More Dems are the Clintons and what the party has become under their direction since the early '90s. And I reject that.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Yep.
Exactly.
the little things you can do are more valuable than the giant things you can't! - @thanatokephaloides. On Twitter @wink1radio. (-2.1) All about building progressive media.
Well written...
I too have been very disappointed in TeacherKen.
Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.
First Nations News
Not all of us
disenchanted with the establishment are young anymore... I don't think they count on that either.
Please help the Resilience Resource Library grow by adding your links.
First Nations News
Well I am sure not young
that ship sailed, along with increasing amounts of cartilage in my knee some time ago.
True
I am 52, and I feel that of the torch is to be passed to a new generation, we need them to be engaged and enthusiastic about it, not leave us holding a flickering out torch. But who knows? maybe it is time for new parties and for the no longer working ones to drop by the wayside, more parties, more choices. Only time will tell. with my health, I may or may not make it to 60, would love to see more Progressives seated in office, I sadly think I shall not in what time I have left.
So long, and thanks for all the fish
You must have missed CommonMass's take down of TeacherKen's
Diary about how he (tk) got invited to one or more inaugural balls in 2012.
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/12/27/1174055/-I-Will-Go-To-No-Ball-A...
I got invited too
You know it wasn't hard, and it was a far cry from what they used to be....
God, I can't believe that is all it took.
He didn't disappoint me.
He wants to "teach us". And get on the rec list.
Before I became a lawyer, I, too, was a teacher.
And for Bernie, I do it as often as possible.
GO BERNIE!!!!
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
I have to admit
I was never a fan of teacherken's diaries. Something about his style never sat well with me.
I stopped reading his diaries after the one linked
above. Never read another one of his diaries, ever again.
Ditto.
Used to be a follower. But I got tired of being lectured to and judged by a supporter of a politician who is dishonest and unethical to the very core.
I used to click on his diaries
They were a really convenient way to read Paul Krugman. Then I realized I was recommending diaries by a teacher who thought it was his job to "offer up without comment" a link to the New York Times. I always hated that sort of teacher.
prog - weirdo | dog - woof
Same here
I think I always felt he was lecturing us, speaking down to his readers. I wonder if his high school students felt the same way?
do you think he can read his students?
I am not so sure if he drips condescension like on DK. I have been irritated for some time by his superior attitude.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
same here
I think it was always a "look at me" attitude that I got from them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
He's a good writer but it's
He's a good writer but it's all about waxing poetic and very little substance in his writings.
I missed the commonmass take down
and the Inaugural Ball post from tk.
Full disclosure: I had contact with commonmass thru kosmail several times, and even tried to get him unbanned. He was a good man.
I posted numerous diaries that not only made the rec list, but stayed on them for days. All were personal. Nothing controversial or political. And tk didn't rec any of them, even when I had commented and had chats with him many times about HIS personal trials and tribulations. Retirement, job hunting, sick wife, job concerns....I could be counted on to tip and rec and comment, and when I wrote from my heart, from the depths of despair, no appearance of tk. And I started seeing a pattern. He didn't give love and sympathy and encouragement to others. And I started noticing every open thread was him and his opinion on some Charles Pierce or Krugman article...
I think it was my tribute to my Dad, about stealing a cow we later named "Boney", that he didn't rec, out of kindness. That story was one we told at my Dad's funeral. Dad was an FDR Democrat, by GAWD!
After that, tk became persona non grata.
"We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false." ---- William Casey, CIA Director, 1981
Ironically, I had a low-level not-quite-run-in with
TK, long ago, when he directly asked a commenter in one of his diary threads, "How come you never rec my diaries"? All I could think was, WtF?
Nonetheless a bit surprised that he went full Hillarite on us all. I thought he had more historical perspective than that.
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
This may sound odd,
but I remember tk asking a commenter why he hadn't recommended his diary. He might have done it more than once, but IIRC, he asked webranding why he hadn't recommended. The commenter's response was incredulity. Like you, I was WTF? The only conclusion that I could reach was that tk's posts were less about building a progressive community and more about his own ego. His unbending HRC stance sealed it for me. How can anybody who claims to be a progressive support her?
"Just call me Hillbilly Dem(exit)."
-H/T to Wavey Davey
i found it!
turns out, I don't use the word, "recommended" all that often:
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1259038/52002419#comment_52002419
if you wanna see something hilarious given TK's hillarist absolutism, contemplate this:
http://www.dailykos.com/stories/2011/4/9/965138/-
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
I've always thought that Ken's only core belief
was spelled K-E-N. A lot like T-R-U-M-P in that regard, if the truth be told.
Hillary Clinton 2016: I'm a proud progmoderate!
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