Disability Caucus Open Thread 5/29/2016: Employment as a Human Right

I'm sure most of you already figured this out about me, but I'm more or less a vehement anti-capitalist. Capitalism is a system that relies heavily on the worst aspects of economies: high unemployment, extreme poverty, wealth consolidation, authoritarian society and regimes, etc. As far as unemployment is concerned, folks with disabilities have a fairly high unemployment rate. As the Bureau of Labor Statistics points out (Emphasis mine):

In 2014, 17.1 percent of persons with a disability were employed, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. In contrast, the employment-population ratio for those without a disability was 64.6 percent. The ratio for persons with a disability declined by 0.5 percentage point from 2013 to 2014, while the ratio for those with no disability increased by 0.6 percentage point. The unemployment rate of persons with a disability edged down to 12.5 percent from 2013 to 2014, while the rate for those without a disability declined to 5.9 percent.

Or to make a long story short, the unemployment rate for those with disabilities is double the national rate. I'm actually willing to bet it's much worse than that if you count in the fact that many folks with disabilities are also underemployed. Many are also self-employed at about twice the national rate also. This is why anytime anyone talked about how 'Oh looky, Obama's doing great when it comes to creating jobs', I point them to things like this.

So what do we do about it? Well, if you ask me, one's livelihood ought to be a human right. How we actually achieve this is a whole other matter because I suspect most Americans would be resistant to the idea. What do you think?

See ya around,

Aspie

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detroitmechworks's picture

That corporate slime can no longer offer starvation wages in order to attract the desperate.

I am of the opinion that good work and well paid work are not the same thing.

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

snoopydawg's picture

works. Anyone care to explain it to me?

And I think when people say that Obama rescued the work force and especially the auto industry, what kinds of concessions did those workers have to make?
And the people who are finding employment aren't being paid as much as they used to
Then they HAVE to pay for crappy insurance and watch their premiums keep going up and still not being able to use the insurance because of the high deductibles.
What percentage of people were actually helped by the ACA?

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Dhyerwolf's picture

The state distributes a yearly (I believe) amount to each adult living there paid for from revenue from oil. If we were looking at instituting a nationwide version, the funding mechanism would likely be some form of tax. Basic income has the extra benefit of that it can help consolidate other parts of the security net, which can help keep the costs of administration down significantly, meaning that the tax might not need to be as high as you would otherwise expect.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

Fund dividend check, the amount was not nearly sufficient as a basic income. (1980's and 1990's)

Heck, when we first arrived there, we left a western state where a watermelon at a fruit stand cost no more than $2. I remember the same year, in July, paying $10 for a watermelon at a large supermarket (chain). Later, we had our own gardens, and grew our own. The cost of living there is (was) very high, especially in Interior Alaska.

I'm a retired federal employee, and received a 25% untaxed COLA the entire time that we lived there. Mr M's federal pay through NAF was also indexed, IIRC.

Not to say, now, that it wasn't nice to get a Dividend check!

Wink

For a while, we missed that check; we received our last one, stateside, since we had met the very exact date parameters for eligibility prior to relocating.

For the heck of it, here's the Wikipedia entry, with the chart for payout.

Here's the payout for the past 10 years:

Alaska Permanent Fund

2015 $2,072.00
2014 $1,884.00
2013 $900.00
2012 $878.00
2011 $1,174.00
2010 $1,281.00
2009 $1,305.00
2008 $2,069.00 + $1,200 Alaska Resource Rebate
2007 $1,654.00
2006 $1,106.96
2005 $845.76

BTW, not familiar with the 'Alaska Resource Rebate.' Pretty cool. We were among the earliest Dividend recipients, since it began shortly after we moved to Alaska.

Hey, have a good one!

Mollie


In Tribute To 'Barabas'
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Barabas The Brave, Dearly Missed, SOSD

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

social insurance (federal) transfer payments--including Social Security, etc.

Frankly, I'm very leery of the concept; but, there are different versions. So, I'm open to looking at them, I suppose. The concept has mostly been conceived by libertarian economists, and from what I've garnered thus far, it is really most harmful to those who need the help the most.

Again, most --there is some variation-of the plans will completely dissolve all the social welfare programs (SNAP, Title VIII Housing Vouchers, etc.), and the safety net social insurance programs (Social Security, Medicare, etc.). That's 'why' libertarians are increasingly buying into the concept.

You know the saying, 'if it sounds too good to be true, . . . ."

Wink

Hope you're having a nice weekend.

Mollie


In Tribute To 'Barabas'
Please Visit Save Our Street Dogs [SOSD]

Barabas The Brave, Dearly Missed, SOSD

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snoopydawg's picture

works. Anyone care to explain it to me?

And I think when people say that Obama rescued the work force and especially the auto industry, what kinds of concessions did those workers have to make?
And the people who are finding employment aren't being paid as much as they used to
Then they HAVE to pay for crappy insurance and watch their premiums keep going up and still not being able to use the insurance because of the high deductibles.
What percentage of people were actually helped by the ACA?
Especially when it could have been made so much better if the democrats hadn't let the republicans water it down?

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Which AIPAC/MIC/pharma/bank bought politician are you going to vote for? Don’t be surprised when nothing changes.

Pluto's Republic's picture

Enjoy.

This link to USBIG links to many other working groups, as well, and explains Universal Income in an overview format.

Universal Income or National Income (there are many names) is a movement that has strong proponents on both the left and the right. Just about all macroeconomists and most non-ivy-league economists acknowledge its soundness. (The Ivy League schooled economists are programmed predators.)

Here's my Two-Part Summary of the US-style Basic Income chewtoy:

1. The nation ends all forms of welfare funding, which permeates every department of the Federal government. This includes certain tax breaks and deductions, food stamps, school lunches, subsidies of every flavor, welfare and children's welfare, and Social Security. It may include some veteran benefits. But, it does NOT include any government spending related to health care, including Medicare.

2. The money not spent on all social safety-net programs, along with the the massive amounts spent to manage these hundreds of programs, is pooled together and becomes a large part of the funding of a National Income. It amounts to well over a third of all Federal spending. Every citizen (men, women, and children) in the US — whether they are wealthy or poor, whether they work or not — will receive a monthly check that is guaranteed to cover the cost of the basic necessities of sustainable living. Taxes will go up across the board, but Social Security taxes will go away. Plus, all citizens will have an extra $15 to $20 thousand in their pockets each year, for life. At current tax rates, the Treasury will end up with a surplus to spend or to curb the debt, or the budget could be reduced substantially. (If the US ever ends its war on the world, the US could actually build a comprehensive rail transportation system for the nation, cutting fossil fuel use off at the knees.

That's it.

In the same way that health care is a Human Right, globally (except in the US, of course), a basic income is also becoming a global Human Right. In any event, with robotics and technological productivity, jobs will become fewer and fewer. Not every one needs to work like a slave in the 21st century. People can work for a day or two and support a family. Or not work at all. Or innovate and work and buy an airplane and lots of groovy clothes and blow and fancy friends. Or work hard and actually improve the lives of the next generation even more. It's their choice.

Here's a view of the global movement:

Global Basic Income

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
elenacarlena's picture

Perhaps we should form a basic income coalition.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

But I rarely mention it. It is my experience that the topic pisses everyone off, across the US political spectrum.

("Someone might get something for nothing!!!")

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
elenacarlena's picture

I mention above, because I set the basic level so high, it became a big discussion over what the amount should be. It never occurred to anyone to dispute the desirability of a basic income itself! Which I thought was pretty fantastic.

I think I like it because I've helped people out at TOP who have been in dire financial straits and I've heard a lot of stories about how difficult it is to get government help and they make you jump through hoops and grovel for it. It's hideous.

I also learned about the Housing First initiatives and how much sense they make. A wealthy country like ours should have no homeless or starving.

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Unabashed Liberal's picture

will join back in the convo when we get back.

I'm leery of it, not because of the 'undeservig' aspect (at all). It's because every proposal that I've seen will hurt the poorest of the poor. And, I haven't seen any plan that would pay more (or much more) than the FPL--which would mean that many folks who are on SSDI, etc., would probably come out worse (without SNAP, vouchers, etc.)

For instance, I've read that our (old age) Social Security benefits are approximately 60% LESS than the equivalent in France. Just as this is the case, I expect that whatever the US libertarians/neoliberals would come up with, would be equally skimpy. Again, probably lowering the benefits of the most needy Americans.

But, I could be wrong. But, so far, at places like NC, I've never seen a proposal that I could support.

Again, some could be made desirable--it's just a matter of 'priorities.'

So, I think we're on the same page (generally). As they say--'the devil's in the details.'

If you have a current proposal (or a link to one)--please share it. I haven't looked into this topic since I was heavily commenting at NC. Got tired of their moderation system--too slow!

Have a good one!

Mollie


In Tribute To 'Barabas'
Please Visit Save Our Street Dogs [SOSD]

Barabas The Brave, Dearly Missed, SOSD

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Pluto's Republic's picture

Folks in the US tend to see such things differently. I'm guessing that this is because US Americans DO NOT have an unconditional right to life, which really does skew people's basic worldview. The world, overall, makes a different assumption about the human imperative, perhaps because they DO have an unconditional right to life — apart from the extreme conditions that befall them due to internal uprisings and US attacks, which is the number one cause of internal displacement, globally. This Right to Life is monitored by the UN:

The right to life, the right to social security and the right to an adequate standard of living are acknowledged by the member states of the United Nations in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Articles 3, 22 and 25.1).

This will happen at the Global Level. The UN aspires to secure basic survival for all humans, on a day by day basis. The UN plans to send a small monthly check to every human on earth, even to Americans. In the US, it could be a modest help for millions, who reportedly survive on less. Even Hillary Clinton will get a check.

At the National Level, each nation will determine if it wants to provide a basic National Income to its citizens. It must meet a global standard, which is measured by the unconditional fulfillment of a every citizen's basic Human Rights:

A full basic income guarantees everyone the means to fulfil basic needs. These include, first of all, the fundamental survival needs: clean water, food, clothing, shelter and primary health care. Most people will agree that education is also a basic necessity. What other needs are basic depends, among other things, on climatic conditions and cultural values.

These are basic Human Rights that were declared by all nations and ratified at the United Nations in 1948. The actual income amounts will differ from nation to nation, but at minimum, the income must cover the costs of these Rights.

These Human Rights are not acknowledged in the US, so I can fully appreciate your protective instincts and concerns. I would share them. I merely report.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

mimi's picture

downer, but I don't think I will ever see what you describe.

This is a great comment with convincing arguments and numbers, but my guts tell me you forget the "human factor".

Not every one needs to work like a slave in the 21st century.

You see, I hear my son's voice, starting to laugh out loud, if I would quote him that sentence. Of course I won't do that.

Like your sig says, before this "new world" is born, there is the time of monsters. And they just will eat you alive if you don't work like a true slave. May be one has to have worked like a slave for that response to pop up?

Not that I doubt any of the numbers you are quoting at all, I just don't believe that people can handle all this equality and lack of "needing" to work to go "ahead". They need the feeling to "achieve" something through their "hard work" and those others need the satisfaction of being jerks to their slave workers to find themselves "happy". If you take that away from them, I think they will be completely confused and then fall in apathy and feel useless.

Arghh I am such a negative soul. Sorry for that.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

…is that the rest of the world provides for every citizen's most basic sense of personal security. I believe that most nations are politically predisposed to achieve this powerful form of national security.

From a foundation of real security and human dignity, all of humanity can evolve, adapt, and survive.

I am certain of it.

I am not convinced that USians, as a whole, truly wish to survive. Their voting patterns, past choices, and general surrender to authority and fear — and their firm denial of their own individual and generational sovereignty — seem to belie this.

That's my impression, anyway. I'm open to surprise.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
mimi's picture

From a foundation of real security and human dignity, all of humanity can evolve, adapt, and survive. I am certain of it.

I am certain of that too, just because I can watch how the opposite feels to people, who experience all the insecurity, couldn't evolve and struggle despairingly to survive.

Yes, it's a strange behavior. I always try to understand why. and when I think I understand a glimpse of it, it usually makes me very sad. One not only has to live in many different parts of this country among Americans, but also has to really understand its social history, to get a compassionate understanding. I haven't done both of it. Always at one place within the US and no background or education in history. Now that I have more time, I realize I can barely focus anymore, am dependent on online reading, which is destructive, tend to be depressed and lose memory quite a bit.

Oh well... there is always another opportunity coming up, I hope. Smile

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Pluto's Republic's picture

And very strange geopolitical behaviors, as well. You shouldn't expect to understand the US. I've been reading some historic socioeconomic papers and articles, lately. They almost never hold up past twenty years or so. Esteemed academics have difficulty getting a grip on it, too, although they were very insightful observers.

The US is quite unpredictable and sometimes self destructive. Its laws are from the 18th century. Its Supreme Court has resorted to channeling the dead.

The people, however, have amazing potential. They are probably the hardest working people on the planet. There are many reasons why hard work doesn't work for them, anymore. They face a lot of unintended consequences.

I suggest just going with the flow, mimi. Over-analyzing the US from the inside can lead to inconvenient truths. Most Americans avoid that and inhabit a cognitive pretzel-world. I think you may be more vulnerable because you are bicultural, multi-lingual, and very analytical — a risky brew. Take it easy on yourself.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato

capitalism is that a larger and larger fraction of the population must be reduced to poverty to continue providing the required vigorish on the financial (i.e., bogus) interests of the plutocracy.

Eventually, America will lose the critical mass of people-with-something-to-lose required to sustain the status quo.

And then, we will see what happens. It won't be pretty.

Alternatively, of course, we might start electing governments that begin the inevitable unwinding of the Empire, while instituting redistributive taxation schemes that limit the wealth of the 0.01%. I'm not terribly sanguine with respect to that possibility, though.

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The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.

mimi's picture

in the past, how could I ever think to understand the US as one of it, especially if the genocidal tendencies are slow motion and not the same in "quality". There are so many different ways to be "genocidal". And when you watch (let's say in some African regions) how fast tribal tensions lead to catastrophic slaughter, one just want to put one's head in the sand and never wake up again.

Ok, I take your advice, return to my cognitive pretzel-world (I love this expression, though I can't imagine how it came into being and what it is supposed to mean. Just looked it up on Wiki and I am amazed how many pretzels there are Lol and go with the flow.

Thanks for your response, Pluto.

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elenacarlena's picture

regardless of employment. I like to propose $30K, pegged to inflation, for every man, woman, and child, with half the child's going into savings to be accessed by the child at age 21. Because interestingly, that usually leads into a conversation of how much the basic income should be, rather than people protesting "No, we don't want to pay people to not work!" I would, of course, have free healthcare and free education under this system, since it's not enough otherwise.

Then we could do away with minimum wages, but employers would have to entice people to work. Don't want to work for $2/hour? Don't want to work for an a$$hole? Don't want to hang around for 30 unpaid minutes to prove to Amazon that you haven't stolen from their warehouse at the end of every shift? You get to tell your employer to go eff himself, because you have enough to live on without working. Presumably not only would pay go up, so would respectful treatment.

This would eliminate having to prove that you deserve a living wage by virtue of age or disability. You get enough to live on all the time. No hoops to jump through. You also don't have to worry about jobs outsourced to China or automated out of existence. You have enough to live on.

Of course people want more. So people would still work jobs. But they would be more the jobs we want, because we would not need jobs. We would find things to do that are enjoyable and fulfilling.

The best part, to my mind, is no more groveling just to get basic needs met.

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Pluto's Republic's picture

Homelessness and hunger keeps people on their toes.

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The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
detroitmechworks's picture

to reduce humans to the state of nature they would have had without it...

No, wait, that's not quite right.

In a state of nature you're allowed to smack the asshole sitting in the good hunting grounds with a club.

/snark

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I do not pretend I know what I do not know.

Pluto's Republic's picture

…is because they expect to benefit from its existence.

Why bother, otherwise?

Government will be beneficial as long as every generation reviews the laws imposed on them by dead people with much shorter lifespans — and throw the stupid ones away. Sadly, Americans have never exercised generational sovereignty, so injustice is what they brought upon themselves.

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____________________

The political system is what it is because the People are who they are. — Plato
riverlover's picture

but it's not enough to live on. And she can't hold a job because reasons. She gets occasional pay being a Secret Shopper, perfect payoff for a narcissist. And is now having a meltdown because her 72 y/o husband wants to retire. She is looking at $10K she needs, some stupid stuff for her alone. No sympathy here, except for her husband.

I miss (kinda) the temporary disability tag on my car, when I could barely walk. But I improved. Some can't, I know. Some of those are my neighbors and friends. I gave up on employment when I was merely disabled by a dying spouse. After that, my trials began.

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Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.

Slightkc's picture

How did your sister-in-law get SSDI on the first application?! I've heard it takes at least two tries and usually a lot more than that -- unless you get a lawyer who might be able to cut some time.

I'd looked into it briefly while I was rehabbing from my hip replacement surgery. My back surgery had only been a few months prior to that, and I'd been told there would be absolutely no more surgery on my back... there was nothing else they could do for it. (shrug) And I discovered just what you did -- it's not enough to live on.

Do you think the people of this country could ever shut everything down and protest in the streets like they do in most every other country in the world? As in, look at France right now. Or are we too beat down to attempt anything as "radical" as that? Have we EVER done anything like that? the only one I know that comes close were the Hoovervilles on the National Park in front of the White House. Egads... can you imagine if we had an Occupy large enough to fill the entire National Park - just like the Hoovervilles of old - and refused to move if they told us to move?

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mimi's picture

compared to France it must have something to do with the fact that in the US, they shoot at you like they shoot rabbits if they think it's needed. And you have a death penalty and unbelievable harsh prison sentences for anyone, who dares to throw a stone. They are so scared of any violence breaking out that they pre-emptively threaten people and make clear they better behave and be docile and better not pick up the pitchforks and something to throw at someone. I doubt that demonstrators in France or Germany have that much fear of the police.

The US penalizes and kills harshly, cruelly and ignorantly. People have reasons to be scared. And the country is so large, so spread out, so thinly populated in vast parts of it. How difficult it is to build a national protest that has any impact?

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...it seems really obvious to me that the way to organize a society where everyone benefits is to organize it so that everyone has a functioning place in it. This requires flexibility, of which there is very little the way things work now. The same goes for education - it's quite rigid, and if you don't fit in the usual ways you are left out. I don't think of this as "disability" so much as just having a brain that's structured very differently than the normals.

As another example I have a friend in another city who functions much less well in the normal sense than I do, and though I know he has a lot of knowledge in a certain subject, can't use it because society does not provide a practical way to do it, much less a way for someone to profit off it. It's easy to imagine the flexibility needed, but not how we get there.

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lotlizard's picture

http://europe.newsweek.com/saudi-cleric-coughs-hairballs-over-cat-pictur...

http://newsweekme.com/casus-belli/

Praising the Saudi-backed war in Yemen as great practice for Saudi troops.

Can’t blame this on Trump or GOP; support for this atrocious regime is totally bipartisan. Even Bernie said he wanted Saudi Arabia to “do more” and “get its hands dirty.”

I think Saudi Arabia has done quite enough.

Who do I vote and volunteer for in order to have the U.S. support Arab secular republics, and not to have Saudi Arabia and other absolute theocratic monarchies as murderous allies in the Middle East?

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