Uh oh. Hillary just got slammed by State
Submitted by PastorAgnostic on Wed, 05/25/2016 - 10:28am
Top page - Hillary did not have permisso, did not seek permisso, and would not have ever received permisso to use a private mail server.
I do believe the end is neigh for her campaign.
She just doesn't know it.
On edit. I have jury service today. The wee fee is spotty, and did not see the errors of my ways or means (or spelling) until now.
Comments
PS while there's a lot of "sideshows" going on
in order to distract, this ain't one of them.
Carry on!
Why the personal attacks?
Did I attack you? No.
Are you trying to make dissenting opinions as unwelcome here as they are at TOP? If people don't toe your version of the party line, they're not welcome, apparently. And they're insulted on top of that.
And, yes, I was very good at IT tech support. And, yes, I understand security issues, likely far more than the vast majority of posters here, including you. What is your tech background, for instance?
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
If you understand security in IT
then you can't possibly write this off as a nothingburger. In fact, simple logic demands that you do not. Yet you continue to insist, vehemently even, that it's a nothingburger. You seem very, very invested in planting this doubt (and Spidey always tingles at that sort of thing, and Spidey is almost always right---if Spidey is wrong, it will out in due time)
OTOH, if you don't understand security in IT, then it's not a "personal attack" to point out that you must be talking out of turn. I find it interesting that you are so defensive to this end.
Nobody gets banned here for having an opinion. Keep that in mind, please.
You said I must have been bad at it. That's an insult.
I'm not being "defensive." I'm rightfully asking why you've made this personal.
Though I don't have to ask, really, after reading a few of your posts. It's because you don't have the intellectual chops to argue the topic itself, to stay on that level, only, so you have to resort to personal slams and absurd insinuations about my supposed ulterior motives.
Grow up. Seriously. Grow the fuck up.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Because
you kept insisting something was necessary that wasn't possible to get, and when called on it, you have steadfastly tried to hide behind GOS and their "banning" of you to give your position more credibility.
Because you swear you know IT, but you insist that this shit that has gone on in Hillary Clinton's name is No Big Deal. By simple black-and-white logic, these two concepts cannot exist in tandem.
If what I am doing is "attacking" you, fine, I'll own that. In fact, I will "attack" any and all attempts to obfuscate her obvious goddamn wrongdoing with such specious reasoning. I've been in tech support on some level for over 20 years, I'm not some piker with this shit. Your "request for more proof" is unreasonable because it is impossible to attain, by your own admission, and yet you have continued to push it.
I'll "grow up" when you stop insulting my intelligence.
Stop with the gross exaggerations. They're absurd.
You write as if I'm "repeatedly" doing something horrible and sinister in this thread, even though ANY objective reader can see I'm not. You keep "insisting" that I've "repeatedly done" X, Y or Z, even though I mentioned this or that in passing, once, just once, and it only came up again because you decided to take unwarranted and ridiculous personal shots.
I haven't "steadfastly tried to hide behind GOS," for instance, mentioning it just once, and, again, any objective reader of this thread can easily see you've overreacted to that single mention. You just made it that much worse with your latest hysterical reply.
Same goes for me mentioning the impossibility of a perfectly objective inquiry into the email server. That's just factual. And I followed up with that to say, in lieu of that impossibly objective inquiry, we need at least a non-partisan approach. Why this led to you "insisting" that I keep bringing this up, when it happened once, just once, is beyond bizarre. Look in the mirror. It's you who keep repeating nonsense.
As for your tech background. How would I know this unless I asked? That's why I asked -- after you rudely insulted my work background, which is a pretty stupid thing to do online with people you know NOTHING about.
Regardless, believe what you want. I really couldn't care less. And at this point, given your hysterical overreaction and baseless accusations, it's pretty obvious that you're a paranoid idiot, in need of psychiatric help.
Bye bye.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
okay...
how about both of you guys leave this argument here.
i haven't run through this discussion to see how it got so far out of bounds, but it certainly doesn't seem to be going in a promising direction.
i'm only putting this here because it is the most recent comment in the thread, it should not be taken to mean that i've looked into this and found the person whose comment this reply is to is most at fault for this train wreck. several of the comments that i've seen by both folks have been beyond the bounds of polite community commentary and need to stop.
thanks.
Question for you, Joe.
Does your site software have an "ignore" feature? If not, have you and the other mods considered adding it? I'm new here, but have already found a good reason to use it.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
no, we don't have that...
our hope was that we would be able to have a community where people might have a pretty diverse set of opinions and yet be able to interact politely. so far, it has largely worked pretty well. we've had some spills on aisle 9, so to speak, but the mods have for the most part been able to contact people privately and encourage them to return to community standards.
i've sent this thread to the mods to look into.
"spidey sense"
is a fake power, of a fake character. It isn't real, it doesn't exist, and thus it is always wrong.
It's a sarcastic reference
surely you understand that?
IT does cover a lot of territory.
Before we decide that 'IT' must include ony this knowledge or 'ALWAYS' means this or that skill…
- because IT is such a narrow industry with only a few defined skills after all (/sarc)
...let's remember that the IT industry easily has hundreds of skill sets.
I'd suggest some relaxation breathing and green tea.
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVd03Pc0ebc width:420 height:350]
Yes, that is true as well
so if it's not my area of IT, I would feel kind of silly going around, trying to convince others of a position based on something I don't really "get".
Heh. I've got the Green, just no tea, so....duly considered! But you know how I get when something don't pass the Smell Test....sorry, I know I'm a real asshole that way, but intentionally muddying the waters and moving goalposts and such pisses me right off...
I did Internet and computer tech support.
That included email and email servers. That included security issues and several kinds of broadband support. DSL, Fiber Optic, Cable Modem -- going back further to dial-up and ISDN. That included DSLAMs, server configurations, virus and malware issues, spam controls, DNS servers. For starters. In the last year of my time there, we were also supporting POTS line issues.
And you?
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
and me?
…
I started the automation and inventory software project for my department when i worked in a reference lab. We streamlined the processes we were using, policies, procedures, new software, so that we could control our inventory and costs by no resources ran out completely, and by ensuring we were not wasting money over ordering for testing components which had a short shelf life.
I was part of a data improvement process in Pharma. We went from a manual system of entry, to a semi automatic entry of data which could be controlled by the scientists running the tests.
I've worked with NDA's and Combination Drug/Device development NDA's and pre NDA's for FDA submission.
I've run a couple of company web servers, and several small business websites as well.
I've built computers, and installed software for direct to client sales. I've done troubleshooting, maintenance, upgrades, and repair for systems for both internal and external clients.
I've built, run and installed multiple networks and server systems for small business owners and their employees.
I've developed policies and procedures for a small subcontracting electronics/static free facility subject to inspection by the client as well as government oversight for the work we were performing.
Ive worked on health care nutrition software development which served hundreds of national clients.
I've created automations and software improvements, as well as process improvements which cut down on wasted employee time, and/or saved hundred into thousands yearly in employee time, and in shipping costs.
I've worked remotely, and created a dialup remote gateway (when the internet was budding) in order to streamline financials reporting for client units so that financial data could be provided in far more timely fashion to meet client reporting goals.
I've worked as a liaison with programmers/developers, engineers (electronics primarily) so that the various audiences had the same understanding, but also in a way each group could understand.
I've worked on requests database systems beginning in old system support and carried through with GAP analysis, systems integration testing, UAT acceptance testing and training, as well as remote international company training for other company branches/segments.
And the list goes on.and on.and on.
...Feels like I just wrote a way too long cover letter listing various activities among the positions I have held.
Was actually asking lunachickie. But that's a nice CV.
Impressive and seriously diverse.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Excellent point, Diomedes77. Privatization of the
commons feeds into economic inequality.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
It does indeed.
Capitalism is the root of the world's problems right now, IMO. And ramming it down everyone's throat just accelerates the destruction. Apparently, no one is allowed to even consider alternatives. If they are, America and other capitalist powers find overt and/or covert ways to torpedo all of that. We've been doing this for generations, and in a sane world, it would be loudly condemned and made illegal.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Excellent point, Diomedes77. Privatization of the
commons feeds into economic inequality.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
Cr@p! Sorry for the double post.
"The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now do you begin to understand me?" ~Orwell, "1984"
I'm not sure
what this has to do with Clinton's private email server?
Nope, this is important and speaks
directly to her judgment and overarching sense of entitlement.
Also, it was a criminal offense and she may also be charged with espionage age.
IT'S A BIG DEAL.
What kind of evidence do you think they should be looking for?
For example, to prove that:
How do you prove that we did this? One of the things you have to show in most criminal investigations is INTENT. Email trails have an annoyingly regular habit of being helpful to investigators for all kinds of stuff.
So really, that's a serious question. I can't figure out how you can make the leap from "I don't like her and want her to be investigated" to "this email thing is silly", for the simple logical deduction that "email" might, for example, demonstrate intent to break other nations' laws to privatize public goods and services. That really doesn't make any logical sense.
If the evidence exists via emails, great.
It needs to be vigorously investigated by non-partisan authorities.
But what I'm saying is that the GOP isn't interested in that. Because they're actually in favor of that kind of corruption and destruction of foreign commons. And the Dems have no desire to talk about capitalism being rammed down everyone's throat. They go out of their way, whenever they can, to talk about how wonderful capitalism supposedly is. They're pretty much as slavishly devoted to and dependent upon their capitalist masters as is the GOP.
To make a long story short: Yeah, damn straight, investigate the email trail. But the issue of her using a private server, to me, is overblown. She would have been doing the same immoral, unethical garbage on a government server, and it might have even been easier to hide. The problem isn't the private server. It's what the State Department -- and our government overall -- actually does. Public or private server, that doesn't change.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Can I get a specific here?
Please define
Should have said, to the degree possible.
And in our system, it's not possible.
So, I'll dial that back a good bit and say, an independent council, agreed upon by both Dems and Republicans. Which pisses me off to no end to think about it in those terms. Cuz, I don't consider either party as legitimate. I see them both as horrifically bad, horrifically destructive, both supporters of endless war and strife and empire; both supportive of the evil that is capitalism, and neither deserves to hold power. But, our choices are between horrific and horrific. So . . . . an IG of some kind. I don't know. But at the very least, not something led by the GOP.
There is in me an anarchy and frightful disorder. Creating makes me die a thousand deaths, because it means making order, and my entire being rebels against order. But without it I would die, scattered to the winds.
-- Albert Camus
Therefore, then, your standard is unattainable
Sorry.
So we have what we have. All available evidence, indicators and intent points to Hillary Clinton, circumventing actual, reasonable law and then trying to cover it up. This information is not some goddamned GOP witch hunt, it's very real and very serious.
Richard Nixon resigned his presidency for that sort of thing, that "covering up". He did a lot of "stonewalling" before that point. Yet it seems you would give her a pass until (insert high, high, HIGH bar here).
Interesting...I'm pretty sure there's some conflating of issues going on as well. Yeah, good to know...
Privilege pass for Hillary Clinton in 3…2...
She didn't mean to do it.
It was an accident.
Others were responsible and she depended on them to ensure she was doing her best. People failed Hillary. She can't be indicted for what other people did in failing her.
Hillary Clinton never fails or makes a mistake. Others make mistakes on her behalf and they fail Hillary Clinton.
Hillary Clinton didn't lie about Bosnia. Other's failed to honor and respect her enough to believe her lies and thus she was exposed for lying. The nerve! If those people had not failed her, her lies would never have been revealed.
She is giving us all more reassurance
that she cannot handle duties in a competent fashion. No way.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
There was an earthquake!
Her car broke down!
IT WASN'T HER FAULT!
The earth is a multibillion-year-old sphere.
The Nazis killed millions of Jews.
On 9/11/01 a Boeing 757 (AA77) flew into the Pentagon.
AGCC is happening.
If you cannot accept these facts, I cannot fake an interest in any of your opinions.
The report completely upends her adamant and repeated
proclamation "It was allowed". How many times did she say that? It's also interesting that she and her aides did not co-operate- if it was all so above board and all, why the hesitation?
I guess we know why she won't be looking forward to debates any time soon. She'll have to recant basically every statement she's ever made. Plus, now there's record of a hacking attempt.
" “Human kindness has never weakened the stamina or softened the fiber of a free people. A nation does not have to be cruel to be tough.” FDR "
A link below for an Atlantic article today
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/tracking-the-clinton...
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
How sad is it that we need a 'primer' for her antics? n/t
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
The written encyclopedia britanica had a written section
Called Micronepedia. It was an amazing index that really helped flush out an issue or topic, and find connections you would have never made before.
Given the width and breath of her transgressions, EB would dedicate an entire volume to Hillary.
"State" said this? I thought State was full to the brim
of her rotten friends.
Hmm. Maybe Kerry is finding a way to stick a metaphorical knife right in her professional throat. That would be lovely.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Not the IG office.
They are independent and apolitical.
So that independence is real?
Always interesting when the system works as it is purported to.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Take a look at the report, especially pg 42-44
Pretty straight and believable. It has that "written by pros" feeling, unlike the "written by prose" crap that spin doctors spew out routinely.
Take a look at the report, especially pg 42-44
Pretty straight and believable. It has that "written by pros" feeling, unlike the "written by prose" crap that spin doctors spew out routinely.
OIG is legit
I've worked with OIG and staff council once upon a time in another agency. These men and women are professionals, nonpartisan and appropriately skeptical. If it's in one of these published reports, it has been thoroughly investigated, vetted and documented as fact. The reaction from Clinton Inc will be an indication of the severity of the findings.
I think not really
Am under the impression that the folks at State actually like the rules set up to keep private stuff safe and all.
'What we are left with is an agency mandated to ensure transparency and disclosure that is actually working to keep the public in the dark' - Ann M. Ravel, former FEC member
Speaking as a career service
government employee retired from local government, I can tell you that regardless of our personal beliefs, we all preferred solid rules by which we operated. It made doing your job much more predictable and easy. When someone above was trying to bend or break the rules, we would worry if we were going to get hit by the shrapnel. Knowing where everyone stands and that all abide by the rules of operation contributes to greater efficiency and keeps staff from having to waste time putting out unnecessary fires.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
server
Glenn doesn't have a link in this, but I think it is NYT. He links in a previous tweet.
IMO this goes to intent! (n/t)
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I've only read excerpts from the report so far...
but to me that paragraph is the smoking gun. The "we know it's a problem and don't ever discuss it again!" About the same as reporting a UFO sighting when the men in black show up.
“Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we.”
George W. Bush
I think the email server thing
and the Clinton Foundation thing is all wrapped up in a not-so-legal mess. Did Bill have access to the emails, the server? What did the Clinton Foundation gain by having HRC the SoS? If I had my "druthers" I would want a forensic accounting of the Clinton Foundation by DOJ; I know that's not gonna happen. As an aside, I really dislike these "foundations" that are supposed to take the place as charity over government programs; I think the Clinton Foundation is Example #1 as the few top people get obscenely rich and very little goes to the people who need the help.
Privatization by The Elite is never good
when 99% depend on that foundation's trickle down...nope, it's bullshit/frontier capitalism at its worst.
They are going to nail the Clintons
for pay to play. The foundation was used for laundering money and quid pro quo.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
From your keyboard
to the FSM's orecchiette.
Okay, I had to look up orecchiette.
Well, I'm a card-carrying member of the great unwashed. What can I say?:-)
Life is strong. I'm weak, but Life is strong.
I only had to double-check
to make sure that it meant what I thought it meant.
Advantages to having Italian heritage/being an opera buff....
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
one of my favorite pastas
because they hold the sauce beautifully. It means little ears, I believe, but I call them little bowls.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Fingers crossed, dk
Fingers crossed. Pay to play may be the last gambit in to nail the two of them. A wonderful two-fer. Live by the play, die by the play (metaphorically).
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
what baffles me is why this took so long
i mean, it was clear from the get go ... but then, it doesn't bode well for human kind. that people in power are so fucking deluded that the Democrats would let her get this far out of the gate. it betrays the way they think about climate change, war, all of it.
keyrist.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
The element of "Buying Time" is at work here
and it needs to stop. The shit has to hit the fan before the California primary, or it's pointless.
hey Pastor, I think your "n" key might be stuck!
how are you? always liked getting called for jury duty. really felt "american" . . . never been seated on a normal jury, but did have to serve on a county grand jury. it was nice, one a week with coffee and dunkin donuts.
“There are moments which are not calculable, and cannot be assessed in words; they live on in the solution of memory… ”
― Lawrence Durrell, "Justine"
Cook County has a One Day, one case system.
You show up at 9:30 with 400 of your best friends, and sit and wait. If your group of 40 is called, you take an elevator to the courtroom, and sit to be sworn in, questioned, and in my case, booted (30 yrs of practicing law and knowing many of the judges here makes me somewhat suspect as a juror from their perspective). We just switched to a 6 person jury in civil cases. That speeds things up even more.
They seem to have settled or continued a bunch of cases, so they may let the last 120 of us go early.
It is a very good system. If you are called and selected, you stay for the whole case, be it a day or 6 months. If you are called and not selected, you are done for 2 more years.
I would love to sit on a jury. The closest I got was in a civil case, where two women sued each other and the tavern when they began a bloody fight. Broken glass, cue sticks, ad worse. The judge told us potential jurors that the evidence would show that they were fighting over who would take a man at the bar to bed. Turns out (again, from the judge) the guy was there with his wife and was totally oblivious to their intentions over his body. He learned it only after the fight was broken up.
There was one seat left, the attorneys were out of challanges, and there were two potential jurors. The other person was called. I would have loved to hear the testimony in that case.
Re: Jury duty
In 1984, my husband and I had taken a two week vacation. When we got home there was a jury summons for me for a special jury. I was in a pool of 100 jurors and my number was 99. Many of the pool had already been excused and so when they got to me, they had only filled ten seats. Me and the next juror were seated in rapid succession along with four alternates. Our jury was to be sequestered 24/7 and we were warned that the trial may take as long as five months.
It was a sensational murder and drug running case involving fifteen defendants originally, all of whom were from Chicago and many of whom were either police officers or former police officers. One councilman was peripherally involved in that he supported one of the defendants and his family. By the time they got to trial, it was just four main defendants. They could not seat a jury in the original venue so it was moved to my county because we had a courtroom available for the scheduled dates.
The trial involved fifteen charges and four defendants. We ended up being sequestered for two full months and that was more than enough for me. Other than being sequestered, it was a positive experience for me, particularly during deliberations. We all took our charge seriously and went through the evidence methodically. In view of the evidence, I felt we reached the right verdicts. Our jury was equally men and women and ranged in age from 28 to 65 or so. We were 1/3 black and 2/3 white. Our remaining defendants were three white males and one hispanic male.
We were not supposed to be called again for two years, but four months after the trial, I was called again and got excused without having to appear.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
After 20 years, not called (except as witness in a trial)
I got selected for a Grand Jury. No biggie, 2 weeks of leisure, mostly DUIs. But my cop suspicion grew from there.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
Daily Mail head and subhead are blistering (and use that word)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3608941/State-Dept-audit-faults-...
State Department audit that Hillary and her aides stonewalled says she 'should have surrendered' all her emails before she left office – and found she failed to report HACKER attacks on private server
"Despite guidelines to the contrary and never seeking approval, Clinton used mobile devices to conduct official business on her personal email account and on that private server, a 78-page analysis from the department's inspector general concluded.
She never sought approval from senior information officers, who would have refused the request because of security risks, the audit said.
And her most senior aides refused to meet with investigators who were looking into why."
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
I'm right on the verge of hustling off to chop up some really
colorful confetti.
******************************
Muerte al fascismo. Muerte a la tiranía. colapso total de los que promueven tampoco. A la pared con el unico porciento%
Where the heck is this IG report, BTW,
that so many journalists have apparently just received?
NOT as of now on the State Department IG website, so far as I can see.
https://oig.state.gov/reports
So who is sending them out wholesale? State itself, giving the media a leg up? Someone else who received an advance copy, like a Congress member or DOJ? The White House? How does this comport with the announcement at the start of April, that the IG investigation was being suspended out of deference to DOJ?
Euterpe2
It's here - linked to by NYTimes
https://assets.documentcloud.org/documents/2842429/ESP-16-03-Final.pdf
Thanks
Another link below.
Euterpe2
Found the IG report here
http://www.motherjones.com/documents/2842486-ESP-16-03-Final#testa
Thanks, Mother Jones.
(BTW was nothing on this subject at TOP except one defensive diary reprinted from HillaryHQ.com, but it did provide the link.)
Euterpe2
The reddit megathread on this audit report is worth a glance
https://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/4l052h/megathread_state_depar...
If you watch the State Dept's briefing on C-SPAN (link at top of megathread), it's hard to see this as anything but a serious somethingburger. And it is leagues beyond the "poor judgment" she demonstrates nearly every time she's given the opportunity to be the "decider." She and Bill are scofflaws of jaw-dropping arrogance. But hey, they keep getting away with it. Maybe not this time.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Lord help me - Schadenfreude
The push back regarding email vs server is delicious. Most people have an understanding of emails and not of servers so are inclined to make that distinction. As in I have an email, but oooh servers are something else.
It is such weak spin. And easily dealt with.
They really do
this might have flown ten years ago, but thanks to the Smartphone, people are a lot more tech-savvy in general.
It's kind of insulting to the intelligence now. The pushback IS delicious because it's FACT BASED.
Well, unless you live and die by the Orange Shithole. Then it's just a damned GOP witch hunt...
From its inception the private server has been about obfuscation
This was set up for one purpose and one purpose only, to hide from the public and probably Obama in some instances what she was doing. Buried in the server could have been all of the background on her various deals with foreign governments to fund the Clinton Foundation and that is likely just the beginning.
For me this has never been about classified documents (which are important to handle properly) but rather about all the dirty little deals she makes.
OMG, please, please, please let this be the end of this walking disaster known as HRC
Some of the report is pretty damning, despite the govt speak
For instance:
I wish for more: the end of the power of the corrupt Clinton
Machine in the unDemocratic Party and in national politics: Bill, Hillary, and Chelsea. I include the next generation because of her involvement in the Clinton Foundation and willingness to mislead and lie on the campaign trail for mom. She has stated her interest in running for City Council; let's nip that ambition right now.
#DownWithDynasty
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
I think her candidacy is over
as of this report. It essentially says 1) Hillary never sought SOS approval for her private server, 2) she did not receive approval from SOS's IT department to maintain her private server, 3) the Department would never have approved the use of her server because it posed a security risk.
To prove the mishandling of classified information, you need to show that the individual 1) had classified material in their possession and 2) acted in gross negligence so that 3) classified material was either stolen or removed from its proper place of custody. See 18 U.S. Code Section 793(f).
We know that number 1 is true because Hillary not only had thousands of classified e-mail on her server, she had e-mails that should have been classified as code name Top Secret, such that their release would result in exceptionally grave damage to the United States.
We all suspect that number 3 took place as well. First, there's hacker that claims to have accessed Hillary's server. He is now in federal custody and is being questioned by the FBI. Second, just the mere establishment of the server could constitute removing confidential material from "its proper place of custody", which in this case would be e-mail servers at State specifically designed to handle classified material.
This report provides very strong evidence that Hillary was grossly negligent. Being grossly negligent involves consciously or voluntarily failing to exercise reasonable care. If Hillary had received State's sign-off on her server, you could say that even though it exposed classified e-mail in a less protected network, she took reasonable care by reviewing the system with State. But now, it looks like she set this system up without any legal or technical guidance from the State Department, and that is the very definition of failing to exercise reasonable care in my opinion.
The beauty of modern man is not in the persons but in the
Disastrous rhythm, the heavy and mobile masses, the dance of the
Dream-led masses down the dark mountain.
- Robinson Jeffers, Rearmament
I don't give a damn about hrc's emails!
Or some such thing, said, Bernie Sanders at the first Democratic debate. He also said, let's let the process run it's course. Let's see what the report says when it comes out. Well, Bernie - you need to care, now. You need to talk about what the report says. The time is now!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
Well, to be fair, he wanted to talk POLICY at that time
I don't know that he actually doesn't care about national security compromises by Clinton, more that he didn't want to waste the debate in endless wrangling over her emails when there were real policy differences that should be focused on.
And he was right, at the time.
I agree, he was right at the time.
However, now is the time to start talking about it. A report is out and he needs to help inform the electorate.
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
I have an idea, given the timing
of all these nasty calls for him to "get out of the race", his weighing in right now, today, would not be a great idea. For starters, it would take the focus off Her. Where it should be.
I think if I'm Bernie, I sit back and wait a few days, and absorb the totality of the noise machine spin, before I say a word. Besides, better to let her gab away and fill the void. Maybe she'll even say something completely stupid in a moment of panic (like "why is he being so quiet? I should say something to reinforce that...") and then he can nail her.
I didn't think of it that way, luna.
I like it. You are right. Let her spin her wheels on it and see where she comes out. I was reacting when I should be watching and listening. Thank you!
"The “jumpers” reminded us that one day we will all face only one choice and that is how we will die, not how we will live." Chris Hedges on 9/11
It's so hard not to
do that! It's why I suck at poker, lol! I don't always know when to hold it and wait for someone else to screw up. Bernie's playing a yuuuuuge game of poker with "media", who is just itching for him to fuck up somehow. But he knows (and we know it too) that she's really a loose cannon--and all those renewed calls for him to get out of the race still haven't driven him out. That has to be making her insufferable to be around, if not completely unhinged. He may not have to say a word
I agree the timing is a big deal
It's going to take the MSM some time to catch up to events. Importantly, we no longer have to wait for a decision from the FBI. When I read that the hacker who was extradited will testify, that put the icing on the cake. In a sense, the longer it takes the story to unfold the better. Trump even said today that he wanted to run against "Crooked Hillary" but was ready to run against "Crazy Bernie".
That depends
I think it would be lovely if, between the CA primary and the convention, the blood in the water gets so thick that the media won't be able to help themselves and they'll turn it into a Sharknado on her corrupt ass.
OK, maybe that's a little too good to be true. But admit it, it warms the cockles of your patriotic heart just a bit at the very idea, don't it? Besides, "after the convention" doesn't matter, really. Whatever comes of this, it needs to happen SOON.
She's done
Things have to be managed very carefully so that Bernie does in fact get the nomination rather than a stand-in like Biden.
Yeah, but who's in charge of managing?
at minimum, it has to happen before the convention.
In a just world, free of "stalling" mechanisms in media and what-not, it should have happened already--but it would be helpful if it happened before California votes.
Must respectfully disagree, my friend RA
Sanders is right to hold himself distant from the process and to let it play out--even now. He's right to stay on message, because many still haven't heard it. He's right to leave it to Trump (and the rest of us bullying BernieBros who "aren't real Ds" anyway) to challenge her for this.
The instant he addresses it, he removes the negative spotlight from her and shifts it to himself for being mean, doing the RW's work for them, and all that nonsense that detracts from his message and allows their side to criticize him. She is the ONLY subject of criticism for her decisions and actions re: the home server and will stay that way if he stays out of it. Above the fray.
He made the correct call, imo. And Jeff Weaver made the correct response:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iVtEFDozc7I
Hillary Clinton: #UnfitForOffice
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
The comments on the NYT article (>1000)
are delicious. Except for the Clintonistas still saying "everyone does it!" Calls to Go Away.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
The most troubling thing about this report to me
The most troubling thing about this report to me isn't what she did, but the fact that she declined to be interviewed by the IG staff in its investigation, as did Huma Abedin. And yet the previous three Secretaries of State WERE willing to be interviewed as part of the investigation.
I thought Hillary was all about cooperating with the investigations. But she refused to cooperate in an investigation instituted by John Kerry and conducted by an IG appointed by President Obama, while both Colin Powell and Condoleeza Rice (as well as Madeleine Albright and John Kerry) were willing to cooperate with the investigation. I can't imagine a reasonable explanation for her refusal to be interviewed that isn't very damning.
No, she's never been "all about cooperating"--just about
saying she is. Trying to convince people like you and me. Fail. Because she fails that walk the talk thing.
Kinda like backing out of a commitment to a CA debate as part of the deal when she asked Sanders for a NH debate he wasn't obligated to have. She has said she thinks debates are swell--she's a big fan:
“Honestly, I just believe this is the most important job in the world. It’s the toughest job in the world. You should be willing to campaign for every vote. You should be willing to debate anytime, anywhere,” Clinton said on May 23, 2008. http://townhall.com/tipsheet/justinholcomb/2016/05/24/hillary-caught-lyi... [P.S. Beware anything she says that follows "honestly." It's one of her tells that she's about to lie.]
But now, when it might hurt her more than help, when she's ready to do that ol' pivot to the GE with Trump, a debate anytime, anywhere just isn't... convenient. Even though she said she would as part of a deal with the Sanders campaign. Rulebreaker. Dealbreaker. Untrustworthy.
Just another reason why Hillary Clinton, more than most, should be judged by her deeds, not her words.
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Hmm. Could it be that Obama and Kerry
have found a way to cleverly stick it to Clinton, whom I know Obama dislikes, and I'm betting Kerry does too? The key would be to get her without offending her masters/bosses, who are also Obama's and Kerry's masters/bosses (unfortunately)
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
What are the odds
that Pagliano's missing emails relate to either Hillary knowing that Hillary's server setup was illegal, and/or that she was informed by him that the server was hacked?
Not a new story per se, and it's from RT, but RT (and Judge Napolitano of Fox news) claim that Guccifer hacked Hillary's server, and that the Russians hacked Guccifer (and copied his hard drive) because Guccifer was (unsuccessfully) trying to hack RT's own web site? The story is that Russian intel has 20,000 Hillary emails.
With Guccifer doing a guilty plea deal, Hillary could be finished. Obama cannot and will not cover this up.
"It is only with the heart that one can see rightly; what is essential is invisible to the eye." de Saint-Exupery
She needs to be finished before the California primary
otherwise, it doesn't matter for democracy, it'll be too late.
So my question is what we're they covering up?
My guess is dirty deals between the State Department and the Clinton's money laundering pay to play Foundation. Hummm... Haiti? Lybia/Syria? Honduras? Arm's dealing ? Influence peddling? Conflict of Interest? Bribery? Extortion? I remember several news stories during and after her tenure as SoS that involved The Clinton Foundation. Here's the first one that comes to mind
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/07/hillary-helps-a-bank...
Hillary Helps a Bank—and Then It Funnels Millions to the Clintons
The politico's and investigators get all tweaked about the impression of improprieties, the undermining the public's confidence in the governments integrity, and politics. They never talk about the real crimes committed or international laws that are being broken. Her private server and Bengazi! are RW which hunts, there DC theater and carefully do not ever get to the crimes actually committed. DoJ is a farce. The alphabet agencies like the FBI, NSA, Homeland Security and the spooks of all stripes aren't going to get Hillary. They love her she's a bad ass global warrior.
It's like the pols will never use the word lie or liar. They can't cause they are all in cahoots. There is no rule of law they reinterpret old law into new and write new laws to legalize their crimes. She will get a pass as none of these bent pols or public officials want to open any can of worms they all wriggle around in. Lawyers with guns and money will put on a show and tell us that no crime was committed and the Mad bomber is too big to fail. Hey the Clinton's are just savvy business people doing god's work.
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