I see the adults in the room are gearing up to blame someone
Yes, they will blame us if their candidate flops, we will even get the blame that if once elected she turns hard right if only we had heeded their calls for unity earlier.
They were too busy hailing Robert Reich calling for unity where at the end of his article he mentioned the dreaded "third party" platform, something that will get you banned from ToP.
That means, if Hillary Clinton is elected, I urge you to turn Bernie’s campaign into a movement – even a third party – to influence elections at the state level in 2018 and the presidency in 2020. No movement to change the allocation of power succeeds easily or quickly. We are in this for the long haul.
This election like 2008 has only demonstrated to me how little I have in common with Democratic Party supporters where all that matters is winning, whilst firmly ignoring who actually wins. Any progressive candidate is subjected to ridicule, no matter how far they progress in the primaries.
Reich has argued quite often that the two party system is on the verge of collapse, good riddance I say, the sooner the better. Where we disagree is that supporting a candidate of the status quo at least one more time is just a means to an end, to me it just consolidates the hold of the elite upon the Party. I believe the time to act is now since they have remained deaf for so many decades it's time not only to shake the tree but to cut it down. The road they have taken has led to almost catastrophic failures at State level and loss of both the Senate and House at the federal level. Keeping this strategy going will just slightly prolong the disintegration. Hillary would also be a down ballot disaster as I believe Democratic Party turnout will be low, independents may vote for her to avoid Trump but down ballot is another matter entirely. I keep asking what swing States will Hillary actually win?
The reason I think now is the time is that exactly the same arguments for unity will be used in 2020 and 2024 for the same types of candidates again, the putrid nature of Party politics and the media will ensure it happens all over again. It's a vicious circle that needs to be broken once and for all.
Comments
Funny, isn't it,
that we get blamed because their candidate can't win.
They don't need us. Just our votes.
"The real power is in the hands of small groups of people and I don't think they have titles. -- Bob Dylan"
Reich gets no pass from me
because he did not have to make that damnable announcement before California voted, but here we are. What a douchebag...
Yes he did "have to"
It's desperation time - the Queen cannot afford to lose ANY more primaries, and especially not California.
There is no justice. There can be no peace.
Exactly my point
Either he's been faking all this time about his "seeing the light" or someone strong-armed him into it.
Knowing how the Clintons operate
I will vote for the latter. Strong arming is something the Clintons do very well. They are the Mafiosi of politicians.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Lousy candidate. Blame the voters. Makes sense /sn
Don't believe everything you think.
The Party/candidate NEVER fails-it is only failed by the voters
This Is How Business Operates
The idea that any failure of any company is due to the workers and not the management is straight out of the Chicago School. Wall St believes this like no other, and we already know that Hillary is in thrall to them. Therefore, she can do no wrong, and any losses are because we failed her.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
The real bottom line is that Clinton is a war criminal
mass murderer. Of course Reich doesn't see things that way, he's just another establishment fuddy duddy. Her husband is a war criminal murdering rapist. Anyone who votes for Clinton will not have my respect, the evidence is overwhelming, there is no excuse.
And all this talk about the two parties being in trouble and third parties ready to make their move, I say hogwash. The system is rotten to the core and trying to work within it via a third party is fool's gold. The mere fact that someone like Reich would suggest it shows it's a futile path. We need a true revolution to overturn the power, not voting for more politicians we hope will save our asses.
There's nothing wrong with inventing
a political wing to a revolution. Lots of revolutions have political parties/organizations attached.
However, there has to be something more to it than that, or it isn't a revolution.
The other ways to create revolution (that I know of) are economic, military, and what I'd call perceptual or cultural. We need the third of these more than most people think (the Reagan counter-revolution relied heavily, very heavily on perceptual control). There's some reasonably good work being done on this; we need a great deal more.
Economically not nearly enough work has been done, though Gerrit's posts show some interesting experiments by people (worker-owned businesses/coops, etc.) There's a lot of other work that could be done on this, but most people give up on the experiments before they start (witness people's general response to things like alternative currencies, MMT, etc.) I actually think that if we're going to do anything about anything, we must involve both sustainable/intentional community people and security state whistleblowers as, at least, advisers to the movement (I'll get to why involve the whistleblowers in a second).
Military revolution is an extremely bad idea, not just because it's terrifying and requires great sacrifice, but because it won't work and the PTB clearly want people to go for their guns. Just listen to any of their visible agents--Bill Clinton, for instance, can't shut up about the unwashed masses killing rich bankers. There was an article in the WSJ a few years ago about "The Coming Progressive Krystallnacht" in which a venture capitalist ranted for several paragraphs about how we're going to burn their houses down and drag their women and children into the night, etc. etc. Finally, and, I think, conclusively, if they were afraid of our guns they wouldn't let us have so many of them. Even with how incredibly armed the people are, the military outguns us by orders of magnitude. A military uprising practically hands the PTB the victory.
Of course, one can respond: they have the victory already--but if we're going to give up, I'll say again what I've stated elsewhere: I'd rather spend the time remaining till an inevitable apocalypse partying rather than engaging in any military engagement, especially one my enemies are obviously longing to have.
We can either strike a hard blow which will make them respond with lots of ugly measures, including jailing lots of us--a blow like refusing, en masse, to pay our taxes--or we can withdraw en masse from their systems in a less directly antagonizing way, so they have no clear target.
More than anything, we need to get people together to make these strategy choices, and security state whistleblowers must be part of that process, because it's their old bosses who are really preventing change by protecting the war/banking/oil machine.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
Pls. crosspost
on Reddit Kossaks for Sanders
https://www.reddit.com/r/Kossacks_for_Sanders/new/
OK. I've never posted to Reddit before
So I hope it's simple and self-explanatory b/c I'm not that digitally smart!
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
OK, I did it!
Hope it's helpful. Thanks for asking.
"More for Gore or the son of a drug lord--None of the above, fuck it, cut the cord."
--Zack de la Rocha
"I tell you I'll have nothing to do with the place...The roof of that hall is made of bones."
-- Fiver
You'll find folks over here that also comment over there
and lots of ex-DKers
Thet're talking about peaceful protests @ https://www.reddit.com/r/SandersForPresident/comments/4kjhth/discussion_...
In the words of Daenerys Stormborn Targaryen...
...Queen of the Andals and the First Men, Khaleesi, Breaker of Chains and Mother of Dragons:
We're not going to stop the wheel, we're going to break the wheel!
[video:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9Bo89m2f6g]
BERNIE IS COMING...
Orwell was an optimist
And if not him
His movement.
It is known.
The current working assumption appears to be that our Shroedinger's Cat system is still alive. But what if we all suspect it's not, and the real problem is we just can't bring ourselves to open the box?
And it is happening.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
My first sig line
This quote came from when Dr. West stopped to speak to Occupy Tallahassee in January 2012. It has been my sig line ever since. It is time to bring the empire down.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
It will always be Nader's fault
Try convincing a Hillarybot that Al Gore lost the election for any other reason than RALPH NADER!!!
The guilt trip elludes me. I just don't get it. Al Gore was almost as unlikeable as Hillary. Al Gore was a classic Dem policy wonk. Tipper Gore was the Dominatrix of the Heavy Metal Holocaust from Parental Advisory Warnings on record albums. Step back Phyllis Schafly!
Excuse me for a minute. I have to go hurl chunks to clear my mind.
"They'll say we're disturbing the peace, but there is no peace. What really bothers them is that we are disturbing the war." Howard Zinn
STOP.
I loved Al Gore. He was moving away from that Clinton third way crap as fast as he could, and that was a hard tide to swim against in 2000. Also he won. Also, there's nothing wrong with being a policy wonk. And he was not boring. I thought he was a great speaker. The media called him boring and a liar 24/7 until enough people believed it that the Rs were close enough to steal the election. Gore and Hillary were at odds throughout Clinton's presidency. That alone is enough to make him a hero in my mind. And as for losing his "home state"? Man, are you familiar with Tennessee? No liberal worth his salt could win that hellhole.
Twain Disciple
Why do you think he lost?
Why do you think Al Gore was so demonized?
You said it yourself:
Don't look now, but it's still a hard tide to swim against, SIXTEEN YEARS LATER.
Al Gore is the guy whose very heritage was "government service", being the scion of a popular pol. He KNEW they stole that election. And yet, he sat back and he took it. HE DID NOTHING. He rolled over and shut up and went back to Tennessee and piddled his way into his twilight years. Oh, they let him have Greening as his pet issue. Not that it wasn't important. Gore did some great things, educating us about climate and what-not. I always liked him, but it always seemed to me that he chose self-preservation over his country. Well, breathing is nice too, I guess...
Al Gore Lost
Because of the Clintons.
Al Gore Lost
because he put Joe goddamned Lieberman on the ticket instead of getting down on his knees and begging Nader to be his VP. But he would rather throw the country to Bush than move one inch to the left. Fuck Al Gore and the dark horse he rode in on.
"The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function." -- Albert Bartlett
"A species that is hurtling toward extinction has no business promoting slow incremental change." -- Caitlin Johnstone
I will never believe Lieberman was Gore's choice
just like I'll never believe the Caribou Barbie was John McCain's choice.
There's been far more than vote-count fixing going on for the last twenty years. Bet on it.
Gore A Terrible Candidate
He ran a poor campaign and did nothing to counter the corporate media flooding the thoughts of Americans with the falsehood that George W Bush was they guy you wanted to have a beer with. No one questioned why that was a qualification to be President.
Gore couldn't carry his own home state of Tennessee. I've not seen anyone question how that happened, and it wasn't close. His loss of Arkansas might have been due to the rejection of support from the Clintons, but I've again not seen any explanation of Gore's loss there. Lastly, he lost West Virginia, which was still a Democratic asset on the national level. Again, I've not read anything about how Gore did that.
But had Gore carried two of these three, Florida wouldn't have mattered one bit. Scalia wouldn't have coronated Dubya, and the world would now be a very different place.
And playing games about the recount, when he should have demanded that the entire election be recounted, was the last straw. As a result, he convinced me that maybe his losing (not that Bush proved to be good in any way) meant that the nation wouldn't have been subjected to his incompetence as an elected official since he couldn't even run a campaign.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Gore a Terrible Candidate
Actually, Sandra Day O'Connor cast the deciding vote to ditch the Florida recount. Big Bush fan and ... Texas. Gore also was begged by the Congressional Black Caucus to fight for a recount (the House Caucus could have voted to proceed) but Gore was just another timid Dem, in a long line of timid Dems. So, Bush for eight years.
Scalia Wrote The Opinion
http://www.sfgate.com/nation/article/Antonin-Scalia-Supreme-Court-justic...
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
scalia
wrote but a concurrence, unjoined, to the stay order, temporarily halting the count. The actual opinion, released some days later, was per curiam, unsigned. Because all of them were too embarrassed to claim authorship.
yep
I'll never forgive Gore for rolling over like he did... I don't believe he was a good candidate or even mediocre but 8 years of bush, after the most corrupt act in my lifetime by the DoJ SCOTUS, was like a toe dipping into what it was like living in nazi germany in 1938. The fact those people have disappeared into the sunset laughing after what they've done has essentially ended my trust in the federal government as a just system of government. Kind of a big deal ...
just was looking at the Reuters/Ipsos poll
they didn't ask about Bernie vs Trump. They've got Hills up 41-36 over Trump but the sample has a lot of Democrats and, in my opinion, not enough indies.
http://www.ipsos-na.com/download/pr.aspx?id=15583
There are a couple of really important items in this poll. First, there's a question that a lot of pollsters ask, "is the country on the right track or going in the wrong direction?" Democrats say "wrong" by 44-43 so that's basically split. Republican say "wrong" 84-8 and (get this!) Indies say "wrong" 77-13.
and how would they vote? Well if they could vote now between Hillary and Bernie, Hillary would get the Dem only vote 52-43 (5% not sure). But Indies, if they had the opportunity, would vote for Bernie 44-22 (the rest not sure).
That anti-Hillary feeling among Indies shows an almost identical 41-22 in favor of Trump. Now that's a serious number. Dems like Hills 73-10, Repubs like Trump 72-6 so it's really the Indies that would decide it. This poll (from 2 days ago) is split about 49% Democrat (way too high), 37% Repub, 14% Indy (way too low).
If, instead, the numbers are 40% D, 35% R and 25% I then this 41-36 Hillary lead becomes 39-36 Trump. Hills would need a huge Democratic turnout and she "ain't gonna get it!" as Socrates once said (but only once!)
Other exciting info in this poll, Indies disapprove of Obama 59-36. Dems like him, 80-17.
At the end they breakout party by "identity" rather than registration and this has D 44, R 31, I 14 and None/Don't know at 11. Again, way too low on Indies, way too high on Dems.
All in all, not good news for Her Ladyship. I wish they'd done Bernie vs Trump. Since Indies much prefer Bernie to Hillary I think Bernie would have a huge lead here.
As Mark Twain Once Noted
There are lies, Damn Lies, and Statistics.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
And today's manufactured nonsense is campaign debt.
TomP and I met somewhere in the comments over there, noting that today suddenly there's this consensus idea that Senator Sander's will end his campaign with significant debt that can only be dispatched with their largesse (and which will be spitefully withheld because he's not doing as he's told).
It's either an outright co-ordination of talking points or the silliest echo chamber nonsense. Bernie will not spend himself into a giant hole and if or when he decides to end this phase of the progressive effort he's made, he only has to extend a heartfelt thank you to the millions that support him via social media and ANY outstanding campaign obligations will be met. It's a point of honor for him and us... and more proof that given a genuine candidate, campaigns don't have to be financed by big money interests with lengthy shopping lists.
Listening to them cackle away, joyously inventing bullshit meme after bullshit meme is truly eye opening.
Yup
Yesterdays was 'scorched earth' seriously check how many of the usual media suspects used it.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize.” -Voltaire
For some reason when Jon Stewart used to show the montages of
the RW talking points from every single pol and newsroom THAT was a travesty. Now that the Ds mimic that same tactic? Crickets. Brock really has poisoned the well.
Brock acts with clients' approval
He's a bespoke-suited lackey. Any well-poisoning that has his noxious fingerprints exists because the Clinton machine OK'd it. The Clintons are toxic, and they hang out with toxic people (e.g., Kissinger and Jerry Epstein).
"It is no measure of health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society." --Jiddu Krishnamurti
Ahh, The Reality-Based Blog!
What a fucking joke.
I noted yesterday (5/20)
that my local Sanders for President office is shut down, space for rent. After primary, no need to keep shop open. Wise use of funds.
Hey! my dear friends or soon-to-be's, JtC could use the donations to keep this site functioning for those of us who can still see the life preserver or flotsam in the water.
At some point even the most ardent "Dems" have to realize
that by pushing the LOTE meme all we have is the realization that worse and worse Republicans step up to be the Candidate. Of course I cannot conceive a candidate worse than Trump, but all that relates to me is that the Democratic Party is chasing the Republican Party into oblivion. At some point the left will have to say "no mas".
I think that point is coming faster than anyone imagines
I welcome the blame...
And you should too.
We want to make it very clear to the conservative and fearful part of the Dem Party why they lost: because they are assholes and if they ever want to win again they better fucking listen next time and think and act like a liberal, like a progressive. I don't suffer conservatives nor fearful people who just want to be liked very well. I don't run with the pack or the herd. I've had people tell me that all the time. It's the greatest compliment I can receive.
/Not snark. I've had enough.
A don't blame me I voted
A don't blame me I voted Bernie bumper sticker would be interesting
And Useful
As was noted just upstream of this comment, Bernie might need to pay off some campaign debt. I'd pay for several of these bumper stickers to aid the effort.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
AS I WOULD TO!!
AS I WOULD TO!!
I am coming t the realization...
That the Democratic Party is never going to learn. Further more - they don't want to. Turning left means giving up that sweet sweet PAC moola - and the nice lobbiest/corporate/government revolving door.
Democrats, we tried to warn you. How is that guilt and shame working out?
they will want us to kneel in 2016, 2020, and forever after
someday never comes......the progressive candidate will never be 'electable' to the establishment Democrats...
to hell with the democrat party.
did 9 months in California prison, because Neoliberal Democrats and GOP maggots work together to profit off the drug war
Someday never comes
I remember a song with those lyrics, but I thought it was 'Sunday never comes'. Always wondered what they meant.
'Someday'
Now it makes sense!!!!
Bernie 2016!!!!!!!!!!
They can blame me all they want
I couldn't care less
Bernie2016
#seeyouinphilly
Orwell was an optimist
Nice piece...I guess my prob w/ Reich is....
...if he were serious, serious about his belief that America needs a change to the current, decaying political paradigm...he WOULDN'T be suggesting a 3rd Party AFTER November. Why delay, exactly ?
So, while I appreciate his general bravery in supporting Bernie up to now...he has been waffling some, recently. And that's too bad.
I agree with you....Politics as Horserace is where we, the people, have been directed to go...systematically. I am heartened that so many are not buying it any longer. Honestly...well more than Half the voting population realizes that dawg don't hunt no mo'.
I've always thought it funny that Reich admits the system needs to change, then claims hillary is the best choice for the system we have now. I mean, c'mon...you cannot help but trip over that Irony at every turn (whether intentional or not...and I'm not sure if it is...or not).
George
Right.
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
I saving that Meme!!!
Im saving that Meme!!!
The Beatles
George, John, Paul, Ringo...
Your screen name led me to this...
Now is the time for a new party
Two putrid corrupt parties, one taken over by an outsider, the other establishment holding on for Hillary.
Libertarians take from Republican establishment, President Bernie Sanders implements real change for the 99%.
I suspect a specific reason Reich chose to do this NOW, TODAY
before the Cali primary.
Either he's been faking his "rehabilitation" all this time, or someone threatened his ass.
Reich is a short man
As such, he's learned to not confront those larger than he is lest he be bullied. He isn't likely to be able to counter the behavioral aspects of that programming now, and we all believe that Hillary is quite capable of bullying.
Vowing To Oppose Everything Trump Attempts.
Oh and --
Shaun King:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/politics/king-leaving-democratic-party-a...
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
That is an excellent article by King.
I guess he now is banned for life from TOP.
Can we get him to post here?
It would really help with the membership thing.
“The loyal Left cannot act decisively. Their devotion to the system is a built-in kill switch limiting dissent.” - Richard Moser
WHY AFTER THE ELECTION, SHAUN?
It's a sad day when Shaun King proclaims.. 'after' the election... hmmmm
Thanks, LaFem.
That, in its essence, is fascism--ownership of government by an individual, by a group, or by any other controlling private power. -- Franklin D. Roosevelt --
There is
certainly a good deal of concern trolling going on with respect to Sanders.
But Sorry - I can't get on board this I'm not voting for Hillary train.
And you know who else won't get on it: Bernie Sanders
And the vast majority of Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton.
In my work for Sanders I met very few who wouldn't vote for Hillary. Certainly the rank and file sanders supporters will vote for her.
I don't like Clinton. She is a neo-liberal through and through.
But the lesser of two evils is always less evil. The Scalia seat alone means Citizens United will be overturned, which helps get money out of politics. I have gay people who are close to me: the Scalia seat means a 6th vote for Gay Marriage. And a 6th vote for Roe v. Wade.
These things matter. To dismiss them is a significant mistake. And not one Bernie Sanders will ever make.
I respect people's opinions who won't vote for her. But I have to say I think people are greatly misjudging both Bernie (who I met in 1980 and voted for in 1981) and the people who support him.
The real fight is the build on the list of people who want the support of Bernie in their down ballot fight. That list is good and it is the place to fight.
Because Bernie once was just a fringe candidate for mayor.
Campaign workers vote
they are engaged. Do you think the thousands of hopeful young voters who flooded Bernie's rallies will also make it to the polls for Hillary? even if it is raining? Now consider Trump-loving indies and obedient Republicans. Your anecdotes are surely convincing, but statistically meaningless.
I am not convinced that a Clinton
SC nominee will be any better than Obama's current pick or Trump's list. ALL are corpartists. Which means more Oligarchy.
O.k. When is the next meeting for the revolution?
-FuturePassed on Sunday, November 25, 2018 10:22 p.m.
Are you Kidding?
Not only am I .. NOT ... going to vote for $hillary.. I'm going to actively work to make sure other people DO NOT vote for her... Trump will open the door for a new administration in 2020.. If we put the 'two Clinton's' in power... they will work for 8 years to dismantle everything left of democracy in the nation and mass murder around the world.... They are FARRRRRRRRRR more dangerous than a Trump Administration... hands down..
Oh no... the Clinton's have to go!
Please return to your vomit at DKos
We left Dkos to get away from shills like you...
You keep saying this like it's true
And it's bullshit.
That's because you're in Florida, frankly. And I should know....
Yeah-might be a good idea to separate out the
"Team Blue Democrats" who are soi disant Bernie supporters from the greater majority of the people who vote and support him who are independents (and remember-most independents were shut out of voting in the Dem primaries)
"Overall throughout the primaries and caucuses, I estimate, Clinton is beating Sanders by 27 percentage points among self-identified Democrats but losing to Sanders by 31 points among voters who call themselves independents but voted in the Democratic primaries.2"
http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-hidden-importance-of-the-bernie-...
Yea, Was a a precinct captain
Yea, Was a a precinct captain in Iowa, worked in New Hampshire and New York.
And the vast majority of Sanders supporters will vote for Clinton....Certainly the rank and file sanders supporters will vote for her.
And it's bullshit.
That is what the polling says. Got different numbers: cite them. Otherwise it is nothing more than your guess.
In the NYT poll Clinton wins Democrats 88-5. She wins liberals 88-10.
Got any numbers to back your own claims?
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/cbsnyt-national-poll-hillary-clintons-lead-o...
All in the same year?
Got any analysis of your "polling"?
Repeating that over and over is not going to make it any more true, sorry.
Remind me to ask, the next time you repeat this stuff, what a "rank-and-file Sanders supporter" is. If you mean the small number of actual Democrats that would vote for him if they could, remember that is in no way representative of the majority of his voters.
Because, really, how many times does it have to be pointed out that there are more indies in this country than members of either of these "parties"? You're barking up the wrong tree with that prognostication, I'm truly not sure who you think you're going to convince.
Telling the truth about HRC gets you banned
So that place has become vacuous. And in time will dry up. Or become "dear leader" odes 24/7.
I agree...Sanders voters that show up, will by and large
vote Clinton. I promise you, Clinton will win Vermont, where I live, in a landslide. I don't think HRC wins the general easily because everyone hates her guts. But Bernie voters won't be voting Trump in any large numbers.
This is my gut feeling that coincidentally is backed up by polls. It's the same old shit stew, and most people won't even show up for a bowl of it.
Bernie was systematically eliminated from the Dem nomination by the machine. People will pen diaries and books, about how the establishment Democrats coalesced around Hillary and made Bernie's nomination all but impossible. There are sooo many examples to cite, but the fact that everyone was shocked that Bernie said Hilary was a progressive "sometimes" was beyond ridiculous.
This is perhaps the most depressing election in my life time. It was the first time someone challenged the system forcefully and effectively.
[video:https://www.facebook.com/tenrte/posts/1014108731971161]
I beg to differ.
I am a Sanders voter. I showed up to vote. I am old and female. I have voted Democratic for forty some years. I will never vote for her, and I have seen the polls of Sanders voters who will not vote for her. 10%, 20%, more? You think that is a win for her?
I live in a red state; my state is a Trump state. Watch when Trump, the FBI and the Lolita News Roundup gets in gear. She's toast.
Sanders Voter here too
I voter for Obama twice for President and Bill Clinton once, his first term. If Sanders is the nominee or goes third party, I will vote for him. If not, I will vote for Trump, enthusiastically!!! I'm a white male, 62 years old, former software engineer, now driving for Uber. Try going from a six figure income, to no job, to accepting anything you can get.
Not fun...
I can't understand the point of repeating such an obvious zombie
meme, particularly here:
Endlessly running with it alongside polling faith doesn't make it any more believable anymore. It doesn't. For every poll saying This you can find five polls saying That Which Counters This. It is never-ending, mind-numbing manipulation and it's time to get over it as a "proof" of ANYTHING.
The key phrase: 'THAT SHOW UP'
this means registered dems, and chronic voters. This means that all the new voters and so-called millennials stirred to engagement by a rare voice of truth, all the passionate independents who have been shaken out of deep cynicism by the convergence of the occupy movement, the most blatantly corrupt candidates in a lifetime, and a single honest underdog, in short, Bernie's movement will not be voting at all, and the groundswell of support that would have washed down the dem ballot will be poured on the sand, perhaps lost to the party and process forever.
I stated that
it was my opinion alone, and it was coincidentally backed by polls. Polls, this year above all others, have been proven relatively useless. Sorry for not being more clear.
You're welcome to suggest I suffer from obvious zombie meme syndrome, whatever that is. But in my lifetime, I have never seen the voting public do anything in its own self interest - with this years highly notable exception. People get scared, and ultimately get cowed by the drumbeat of propaganda that is the two party system.
Oh great... another Shill..
The reality is... the vast majority .. JUST WON'T VOTE... at all... and I will be encouraging that outcome.. reinforcing the idea that even Bernie Sanders has become a traitor... to the American people.. if indeed he decides to support Hillary... so... let's watch and see what happens.. hmmmm?
It's about a POLITICAL REVOLUTION... after 4 years of a Trump disaster.. this nation will be ready for change.. With Hillary at the helm.. she'll reinforce this f-ed up system and make it harder to change.... working hard to keep Status Quo Democrats in power.. With Trump in power.. Progressive Dems will work hard to get into power... Oh no... F-ing Hillary has to GO!
It's hard for me to tell if this is a reply to my post or not
But if you think I am a Shill, that's misguided. I have voted for Bernie since 1992. I have also said we should wait and see what he does, as you have. Personally, I believe he will do what he says he will do, support Hillary...although she has been doing her damnedest to steer him away.
It's interesting to me that I post my own theory on what will happen and two folks here take me to task for a zombie meme and actually being a Hillary supporter. I mean you can say whatever you want, but it doesn't make you any more correct than me.
For example, I could easily say that your prediction of a Trump disaster Presidency ending in progressive victory is ridiculous. This is the country that re-elected W, and there was a very loud progressive voice against that piece of shit too. When he was finally replaced, we got a Prez that eased out of the wars only to go back in, while suggesting SS "reform" at home etc, etc.
So what are reasons to vote FOR Clinton?
Supreme court? - that's a reason to vote against Republicans, not FOR Clinton.
Why should I believe what she says? How do I, or others even begin to trust someone so willing to lie and to lie about having lied? And on that count of honesty and integrity and the lack thereof many perceive (thus her unfavorables), how is one supposed to reconcile her responses in saying she believes she's never lies and always always tries to tell the truth yet in following statements makes a comment about 'trying to level' with the American people?
How are people supposed to accept her positions when she consistently shifts positions? Please provide a response that doesn't excuse her shift in positions as growth - what some call 'growth', others call 'convenience'.
She also exhibits signs of potential corruption with her foundation as well as with her combined speaking fees with her husband. We used to abhor money in politics but now, as I have been told, we're supposed to clap and congratulate her and 'celebrate' the extreme profits that have been made by the Clintons.
I haven't trusted her for a couple of decades. That isn;t going to change. What I find odd is how willingly others do trust her, unless that's just more hype and subterfuge for the kabuki theater of modern politics.
I can't think of any n/t
Well Yes!
My theory is based on the fact that those who voted for Obama.. voted for what they thought was a progressive.. and instead he turned out to be a lying piece of sh-t.. had Obama not been a fake .. we would have gotten an amazing president.. but... here we are.. with Sanders supporters actually saying they are going to vote for Hillary.. another full blown piece of sh-t. This tells me who these people really are.. at heart.. cowards. And there you have it.
Ultimate Fear Tactic: Supremes
If you think that Clinton, Inc. will reign victorious and get to choose Supreme Court nominees of a better ilk than Trump will, you've just bought the Brooklyn Bridge. Now that the Dem party has come out of the shadows and fully embraced corporate Republicanism, there's no reason for them to nominate progressive Supremes. So the "lesser evil argument because ... Supreme Court" doesn't compute.
I certainly wouldn't expect her to nominate anyone
better than Obama has.
"I’m a human being, first and foremost, and as such I’m for whoever and whatever benefits humanity as a whole.” —Malcolm X
its going to get very ugly
Hillary supporters at TOP have already had to lie to themselves so much to support the pro-Iraq2.0, pro-fracking, anti-pro gay marriage, Kissinger BFF, they won't have any problem deluding themselves about Hillary's weaknesses as a candidate.
As a matter of fact, blaming Bernie supporters (and everyone else) for Hillary's GE loss will be how they avoid admitting how much of their supposed "progressive" ideals they bailed out on to support Hillary. They chose fear and went with Hillary. They won't admit it was their cowardice rather than her principles that led them to back Hillary.
A third party is the only
A third party is the only answer. The Dems can't stand long if they lose so many. The Repugs will clean up. It will be the end of the Dem Party. Which will then drive even more to the third party where we can start again.
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