Wednesday Open Thread - May 27, 2015
Prior to my recent hiatus, I had been posting a series of diaries on the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq as part of the Wednesday Open Thread. I had intended to post at least one more diary in that series, and will do so as a stand alone diary later this week. Instead I am going to keep this week's Open Thread relatively light as you will read below.
The light I am referring to is black light. Yeah, that kind of black light. The black light of disco night clubs and parties and the black light of the hippie era. I bet you did not know is that on this day in 1961, the first black light was sold. I can remember from my college days going to a party or a club where there were black lights and seeing a white shirt or anything else white fluoresce under the black lights. It was almost like magic.
During the hippie era, fluorescent posters were popular. Artist Peter Max was famous for his psychedelic posters such as this beautiful one of Jimi Hendrix. The free spirited air of that time went well with psychedelic posters lit by black light which seemed to enhance the experiences of the era.
So what is black light? Black light is simply a very long wave ultra violet light that is mostly invisible to the human eye, hence it appears "black." One of the characteristics of black light is that when it hits a material that has phosphors in it, that material will glow. This article explains the phenomenon of phosphorescence from black light. It really is pretty interesting because it all has to do with wave length of the light that our eyes are able to perceive.
This glow is created by the special way phosphors use the energy from UV light. When a photon from UV light hits the phosphorous material, it causes the electrons to get excited and stray farther from the nucleus than they normally would. When the electron falls back to its normal state, some of the energy is lost in the form of heat. When the UV light wave is reflected back to your human eyes, it now has less energy, therefore a shorter wavelength. This wavelength is in the range that we can “see”. The end result being, you cannot see the majority of the light coming from the source, but you can see its reflection off of objects containing phosphors.
Here is a neat video about how black lights work to make certain objects fluoresce.
[video:https://youtu.be/HLH4CqzqFb8]
I could write more about the practical uses of black light, including the detection of counterfeit bills and in medicine, but this is an Open Thread so please share your thoughts about whatever is on your mind today.
Comments
Good Morning, Gulffal98
Just heard Assange interview on Democracy Now. I need help understanding what was said and hope Joe will cover something about it in the EB. Just by listening I have difficulties to put what was said "in context".
Thanks for your OT. I am still distracted by trying to find more about the Wikileaks release with regards to the EU's documents about how to fight the refugee boats and its handlers out of Lybia. So, I wasn't that concentrated on reading your OT. May be a little later I come back to it, it's a neat thing to know how that "black light" works. From the wording it sounds like an oxymoron.:-)
Have a good day, all.
Morning and welcome back.
I appreciate some fluff (no offense meant). We have quite a few good writers sharing very grave information and thoughts, and it is nice to lighten it up. Besides light is more up my alley when writing OTs, and I think it offers some variety and a good change of pace.
So I'm trying to renovate my landscaping, and I can't find a landscaper that doesn't want to plant a million plants for a million dollars. I am trying to minimize maintenance and its cost. They all want to add to it. I think hydrangea bushes, a Miss Kim Lilac tree, maybe a strategically placed rock garden. I don't have evergreens, and I am not a fan of them - unless I can count boxwoods. Do any of the gardeners here know how good the Miss Kim holds up? I also like the hydrangea tree and Kwanzi Cherry. For 50 years I've been trying to get lilacs - still don't have any. Got to have at least one lilac bush.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
landscape
Sorry I don't know about the plants you've mentioned, dk. I love the looks of hydrangeas. I'm not sure they do well here in Colorado.
I had a landscaper out to give me an estimate for tearing up the lawn, replacing it with rocks and just a few xeriscape plants to start. Something I could add to. Got back an estimate for around $2500, maybe it was $3000. It's been awhile. It included trees, huge boulders, full of plants, etc. It must be a tactic. I said it was way more than I asked for and she redid it and it was still ridiculous compared to what I had requested.
I was given a quote of 8K for just the front yard.
I already have a lawn and beds. This was just for bed renovation/redesign and plant material. My jaw is still on the ground.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Hydrangeas and Kwanza cherry trees
I love hydrangeas but did not know that they could be grown in Michigan. I love to cut the flowers and bring them indoors. They usually last a decent amount of time inside. We have Kwanza cherry trees here in the downtown. They are spectacular bloomers in the spring with the entire tree covered with masses of blooms, but be aware that they make a big mess on the ground when they drop their blooms. Good luck with your landscaping, dk. Maybe you can make it an Open Thread topic some time.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I had big lilacs
When I lived in western PA. I do not know what variety. You could smell them from 20 yards away. It was a good thing, because they were bee magnets.
No lilacs down south. Few rhododendrons or dogwoods, they don't like the brutality of the sun.
I was always a bargain tree shopper and hole digger.
Crab apple is nice and hearty. I had a row of snowdrift crab apple that was really cool. There are dozens of varieties.
My favorite up north tree is a larch.
BTW, I advocate a more natural setting. More mulch beds and bigger plants. Sculpted (high maintenance) is more Ginger and I am a Mary Ann kind of guy.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
I have a Miss Kim
in my front yard. I planted it about 4 years ago and it holding up nicely. It's a small variety of lilac which is why I chose it as my yard is small. It's my only lilac. I like the foliage as it is a shiny dark green and doesn't get ratty like the old lilac that was planted in the back. The flowers are fragrant, purple and white. When we moved in here 20 years ago we had a huge old lilac that was planted in 1914. We took it out 10 years ago as it was on the property line and we were putting up a fence and landscaping the back yard.
Even though it was beautiful it was a pain as whoever planted it had planed ivy at it's base. My 95 year old neighbor who had been born in the house next door told me that in the early 1900's planting ivy at the base of trees and shrubs was all the rage. What were they thinking? The ivy roots, when I first started gardening the back had filled the small backyard. It was like a maze electrical cords under every square inch of the yard.
I think you will be happy with a Miss Kim as it's a tidy compact low maintenance lilac. Good luck with the low maintenance. We have renovated our whole yard over the years. We finally ended up hiring hired a landscaper to do the hardscaping like drywall rock retaining walls and a patio and french drains. I designed it and found a great landscaper who took my drawings and interpreted them with creativity. He submitted the lowest bid and yet was the most creative of all the other landscapers.
I did the planting and still am struggling with making it low maintenance. The fact that I'm a diehard organic old school type gardener makes even harder. I'm no spring chicken and digging heavy clay is getting to be a pain literally. Funny thing about the 4-6 inch perennials I planted 6 years ago they no longer fit. When the container they came in says 4-6 ft. at maturity I now know to take heed and not cram them in. Scale has always been one of my weak points in both art and gardening. I'm moving the small lovely Miss Kim to a backyard sunny boarder this fall where it will not be lost amongst the now 6 ft tall natives at the back of my front.
Good morning
everyone. Thank you for the thread, gulfgal.
Hmmm. Put a Lava Lamp with your black light and I guess we're good to go.
The video says stains will show up on freshly laundered clothes under a black light. I would buy all new clothes if I'm invited to a party where black lights would be. I don't think I will have to worry about that happening though.
No news here. Although it did not rain yesterday, so that is something. We may be seeing the beginning of the end.
Looks like it's ladies morning here at caucus99percent.
People wear clothes to black light parties?
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Looks like drama in the world of FIFA.
Multiple arrests and a raid of an office in Miami, Florida...as FIFA officials are implicated in a massive corruption scandal.
FIFA Officials Arrested on Corruption Charges; Sepp Blatter Isn’t Among Them
FIFA Faces Criminal Probe-Miami Herald
Sepp Blatter wasn't among the arrested, and he's probably still expected to be re-elected as FIFA's president (he's still got his capos in the association who will vote for him no matter what--$$$), but this is still huge.
Maybe they'll take it away from Qatar.
Haven't read what's happening but I've wondered about how Qatar got the deal.
I going with spread some cash around
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
I was so surprised that FIFA got busted for corruption
No, wait. What is the opposite of surprised?
Now I understand
just how bad FIFA is thanks to John Oliver.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I am curious
as to how Sepp Blatter was not arrested or involved. Either he was or he is totally incompetent to not know.
I knew very little about the FIFA scandals until reading your links, but it sounds like the entire organization was run like a criminal operation.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Morning. Ya, we had the black lights and posters.
When I was about 16 I moved into our garage and decorated it with all sorts of black light posters and other assorted
things like stolen road signs (today we'd have been road sign terrorists) and flashing lights from construction sites, etc.
It was a pretty rocking teenage kid cave. I've thought about going back and redecorating my house with all sorts of
hippie stuff, get rid of all the respectable Ethan Allen furniture and wall art and get back to my roots. I think it would go
with my current attitude a little better.
road signs
So it was you.
Denver Post January, 2014
Heh. they should have known better.
Especially in Colorado. Obviously no stoners in the Colorado Dept of Transportation.
My daughter lived in room 420
Of a college apartment complex. The landlord had the audacity to try to deduct the missing room number plate from their security deposit.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
What does 420 mean?
I know it's about pot but I have no idea what it's significance or origin is. As an old stoner you would think I would no what it stands for. Could someone please enlighten me? Then again I can always just google it.
I think it was about some college students or maybe high
school students who decided to meet every day at 4:20 to get stoned. It caught on.
I grew up in a small town about 45 minutes outside
Pittsburgh. During our freshman year, other dorm residents did not believe there were several of us from the little town, nor that the town existed. My roommate and I went on an evening mission. The town had 3/4" marine plywood signs, painted blue with gold metal flake Welcome to XYZ". We took one of the signs, then stopped to pee and throw away beer cans. Then it was off to stash the sign in our dorm room.
We were rolling down a country road and could see a police car ahead of us. We followed for a few miles until he pulled into a tavern. Little did we know that the van behind us was also police. He pulled us over, said he smelled beer and searched the car. There was no beer evidence, but when he opened the trunk there was the sign. The sign was laying face down and looked like a piece of plywood.
I had to go to the police car, where I promptly started the broke college student and dad is going to kill me routine. The policeman said he didn't have his ticket book and I would get a summons in the mail. The summons never came.
It's been 38 years and the two empty 4"X4" posts still stand roadside.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
Hey Tim
Do you know where Indiana, Pa is? My parents grew up there and I used to have a lot of relatives who lived there.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
My dad had his English Literature Masters from
Indiana of PA. Lot's of Pittsburgh area kids went there, including a good high school buddy. It was a great place to be. The primary vocation training was elementary education. The ratio of the sexes was heavily biased female.
Shorter answer is yes, I have been there many times.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
My parents
both attended "training school" as youngsters. Most of the smaller Pennsylvania colleges were originally established as teachers' colleges.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
All of them
Slippery Rock, California of PA, Indiana of PA, Clarion, Shippensburg, Bloomsburg, West Chester, Edinboro, Kutztown, Lockhaven, Millersville, Cheyney and East Stroudsboro were established as the state teachers colleges. That was back when the government was for the people, by the people.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
are those schools good for vocational training
leading possibly to a four year degree in a technical, engineering or applied sciences?
None have an engineering school
The majors are oriented around reading, writing, arithmetic, the humanities, the arts, chemistry and physics. A four year chemistry, math or physics degree would get you about 80% of the way to an engineering degree @ Pitt or Penn State.
Mostly the state schools produce teachers, nurses, chemistry, math, physics and CS majors. Or bachelors of the arts. Most have masters programs, but few Ph. D. programs.
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
May I ask a serious question?
I just heard Bernie Sanders speech announcing his candidacy for presidency. I think he says in many ways things I would have wanted to be implemented under the Obama presidency and we know how that ended up. So, with all the feelings of being thoroughly disappointed, how to go from there?
I heard here many saying that Bernies' candidacy and attempt to build a movement for a political, social, environmental and economic revolution from within the system is basically not any more possible.
Does that mean it's this site's overall point of view that a support of Bernie's candidacy is a "loosing venue"?
There are lots of things I have questions about regarding his platform, but I wonder why he has not the same right to get a chance as anybody else trying?
As we have to vote somehow in some way and if there is no other candidate, who would convince me of making more sense or be more trustworthy, I think I would not want to boycott his efforts and probably support his efforts.
We have been betrayed a lot of times by lots of politicians and campaigns. That doesn't mean every man is a crook, right? He even used the word revolution in his speech, not only a rebellion. So, what more do you want?
I'm thinking about tackling this in a diary.
I'm trying to be honestly objective about it. I've said in the past that it doesn't matter who is President, the system won't
allow the changes we want, only the changes the ruling class wants. I've also said that we went through the same thing with Obama
in 2007/2008.
People were crying during Obama's speeches, raising their hands to the sky and screaming "Hallelujah, Praise the Lord!!" They weren't doing
that because he was saying the wrong things. They weren't doing that because he was saying things differently than Bernie Sanders is now.
We know how that worked out. Is Bernie different? Well that's a good question. I bet if I wanted to I could go back and find almost word for
word that Obama is saying the exact same shit that Bernie is saying. That's why people were crying, because Obama said he was for this and for
that and against this and against that and the people bought it.
But is Bernie different? How many times are we going to go through this? Is this time different? I would pose a question. What if Hillary Clinton was
saying all the right things about the economy and the one percent and wealth inequality and had a proven track record in those areas, but was still
the war hawk she is. How many more would be supporting her now? When does a candidates views on one issue or a couple issues override the
rest of their views?
Bernie is not against U.S. imperialism, he is not against the MIC, and he is not against Israel Apartheid and the push for Greater Israel which is a thorn in
the side of the entire human race. It will be impossible for him to follow through with anything close to his rhetoric on domestic economic issues with those views on imperialism, the MIC, and Israel. Impossible.
So knowing that, is this just another dude saying some of the right things while disguising the really important things that will override all others? And if the system is such that it absolutely does not matter who is President anymore, then what's the use? Wouldn't efforts and money sent toward Bernie be better spent elsewhere trying to change the system?
I watched Pete Seeger sing "This land is my land, this land is your land" at Obama's inauguration. Ya, we were betrayed. I should have known. No more for me. I predict a whole lot of people saying when Bernie finally drops out of the race that they should have known.
I just tried to watch that entire We are Change video.
Couldn't do it. Unbelievable.
Hi Al
You and I agree on almost everything, but thus far not on Bernie's candidacy. That said, I have really appreciated how you have treated my view with respect. As I said in my reply to mimi, I really like to read all sides of an issue because it makes me think ore deeply about it. And I completely understand your reasons why you oppose his candidacy. I am still weighing those against my own reasons.
Edit to add: Bernie's stands on Israel in particular are troubling for sure. On the domestic side, I believe Bernie's voting record backs up his rhetoric. What he is saying is far different from Obama when we analyze Obama's speeches. Obama spoke in glowing generalities which left him a lot of room to equivocate. Bernie has been making specific policy proposals unlike any candidate that I can remember. For me, it is about getting these issues a public airing and forcing a debate on them.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Thanks gulfgal. I have to say what I think, you all know
that. We all have to be honest. That said, ya, we need to let others come to their own conclusions in their own way and their
own time. I've reminded myself of that.
We're always good
even when we disagree.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
I almost feel like saying,
"OK, we'll do this one more time with Bernie, but if this doesn't work out, forget it. That's it."
But I won't because I don't really believe it. But the fact that I feel like saying it or that it's in my mind
tells me something about what others are going through.
Old saying time: "Only time will tell"
yep, I believe Hope has been obliterated
sort of funny that Obama broke it by using the word.
and I don't want to even start up that video.
when I don't know anymore what to do or think
I always end up telling myself, I sit that one out. Somehow that will end and something will come up and tell. If I just had more patience and wouldn't get so angry while "sitting it out".
I know for sure who I don't support
and Hillary is at the top of the list. If Hillary gets the nomination, I will likely write in Bernie or Warren. I will NOT under any circumstances vote for Mrs NAFTA. In my list of worse Presidents ever, this is my order of worst ever:
I argue with myself over Barack beating out Bush.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
I am also adamant
about NOT voting for Hillary, the Hawk. The Clintons have always been about the Clintons. I am inclined to put Obama above W simply because he has betrayed his most loyal constituency in one of the most cynical ways ever. At least we knew what we were getting with W.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
ditto I will not be voting for Hilary
as long as the Democrats know that we vote for them no matter what they do to us, they have no reason to care about our needs
it's time to put a stop to them taking us for granted
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
I agree with your excellent list
but I would add 'Poppy' GHW Bush at the top. Even though he chronologically came after Raygun his dynasty and power has remained in place from Nixon to this day. From Poppies other son Clinton all the way back through his CIA days. His henchman including Cheney, Rumsfelcd, Rove and the puppet bad seed psycho son they put in charge Bush2, they all cut their teeth under Nixon. Putin of the KGB evil one can't hold a candle to the evil Bush the elder the CIA dude has spawned.
X2! ;-) N/A
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
what I have the hardest time to understand
I hear you, but it doesn't help me to really understand what you think a political candidate or a movement must DO in order to prove it is against imperialism or against the MIC. (I leave out Israel here for the sake of not into falling into the abyss of insanity). Let's say I would be the person, who would be your ideal candidate or person to represent what you are looking for. What would I have to DO (not say, as you say anything a candidate says is not going to mean anything at all). Because if you are not against imperialism, nothing has any meaning. How is one against imperialism in practical terms, in actions that is ?
Another thing I still am not clear about, how much Obama could have done to stick by his campaign promises. As you say Bernie even couldn't implement anything matching his rhetoric on domestic economic issues. I don't understand the details of why both can't or couldn't do it. Where is it exactly that the system is so dysfunctional that system changes are impossible to make? Is it the constitution? Can't it be rewritten? Couldn't part of it be rewritten? Are you saying without a "coup d'Congress" nothing can be changed? I still believe Obama could have done tons of things differently from what he did. And I would expect Sanders to stick and implement his platform. I guess Sanders is careful to not speak about war, MIC, and foreign policy issues. Basically I think there is no way to know what kind of war and foreign policy related situation he will face in Nov. 2016, if he were to win. I do believe he is silent on purpose. And I would think that is better than talking at this point in time.
I am not saying that supporting Bernie means sending money (as if I my pennies would make any difference at all). But when you say wouldn't my money be better spent when sending it somewhere else, where it would be used for changing the system? Can you be more precise about it? Where is that "somewhere" and what is that entity or thing that would "change the system"?
I read articles by Chris Hedges and he basically saw the "betrayal" and the need for "system change" way back in spring of 2009. So, how and where and with whom do I help to change the system from imperialism to something ... better.
I need something tangible to work with. And btw. I don't fall for rhetoric. But if you run, you have to talk. Bernie has to say something. How much that is worth is another question. But he can't stay silent on the bully pulpit. The problem I have with what you say is that it doesn't give an idea what one exactly could do ... to change the system.
I am really looking forward to many more of your writings and thoughts. I think it's great that we can talk freely and friendly with each other here. Unless I am not getting someone's sarcasm, irony or snark (which happens easily because of not "living in your language") or am really so frustrated that I can't handle simple jokes anymore (I hope that won't happen too often, since I am more aware about it now), I think I can take anything.
And btw. looking back at myself to the times of Obama's inauguration and campaign. I felt the "show business" and "campaign professionalism" behind it all, but I guess, coming from Pres GW Bush rhetoric and actions, I was all too willing in "believing" and "hoping" and fell for the "charm offensive". I don't remember anymore for how long. I don't remember having read for example of Chris Hedges back then. I couldn't and still can't understand the frigging rules of the US Congress and Senate. I don't remember anymore when I started to understand that your electoral system and campaign system is undemocratic to say the least. But that was much earlier, before Obama times. All I remember that on gos one got ridiculed when one tried to say something in that direction.
Good comments and questions.
I'll ponder and get back. Doing some yard work now before it gets too hot.
Here it's so hot, I don't get out even, well now
I will go out and dip into a swimming pool. Kool, cooling down.
But Obama was a liar....he never meant a damn word
that came out of his mouth. He was Elmer Gantry in a revival tent making people throw down their crutches and walk again. He always felt phony to me from the very beginning. When Howard Dean was jinning up the youth, he was openly reengaging youth in the democratic process. Obama's engagement of the youth vote was compartmentalized. He made it feel more like boko haram or a pedophile soliciting naive young people on the internet. There is no comparison between Bernie and Obama IMO.
"Religion is what keeps the poor from murdering the rich."--Napoleon
Amen to that
and I like a brain dead little follower went out and proselytized his gospel. To a lot of youngun's, women and minority poc. I agree that Bernie is not comparable but I still think he's being used to calm the righteously disillusioned and hostile public. His intent and sincerity is beyond me and I really don't care as like Big Tent used to say before he lost his mind 'a pol is a pol'. However I don't like him playing the Dem. partisan electoral game as it in it's own way is a con. He may not be an Elmer Gantry marketing creation of his handlers like Obama but surely is not so naive that he doesn't know exactly what the Democrat's are and that their is no left left to push them towards.
Pragmatically speaking how does his token leftie push change this fascistic totalitarian trajectory of the US, that both parties are implementing. Axelrod declared this reality invincible, inevitable it's the 'the world as we find it'. Seems to me he's lending credibility to a false illusion that we still have any say in the farce of real democratic elections. If he believes it can be moved from inside the two party broken system he's a fool. I doubt that however. The last thing we need is a joker wild card that is from the same rigged pack of the Koch Bros/Goldman Sachs deck of cards. My only hope these days is that I'm wrong and Bernie actually manages to win! Yeah right. As it standss it only furthers the damage done and leaves the intolerable status quo intact with the illusion that a 'national debate' occurred and that Hillary and Co. the psycho killer from Wal Mart and Monsanto the one who cackles when people die validated as the peoples choice.
Speaking for myself
While there are several here who have been outspoken against Bernie's candidacy, I do not think this site speaks for or against Bernie nor any other issue. I personally still believe that Bernie's candidacy serves a positive purpose in getting a national airing of issues that nearly every other politician is afraid to touch. But I also understand why some here oppose his running.
In general, I respect every person's view points here even when I may not always agree with them. And I would hope that they do the same for me. No one of us is going to right or wrong 100% of the time. I personally like respectful, dynamic differences of opinions because they make me consider all points of view.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
oh, I agree with you, I hope I said something similar
in my response to Al.
I don't oppose his running
I oppose his running under the Democratic banner which is so out there at this point that it seems to me he will do nothing but offer a little hope to those who have the good sense to know that this is not what democracy looks like. Neither is Bernie's candidacy because it really offers nothing but the illusion of air in a room that seeks to shut all doors and windows and kill any effective dissent or stifle any populist reform here in Der Homeland or globally. He caucuses with the Dems while he preaches some decency and then seems to fold like a cheap tent when push comes to shove. Like all good progressive so called liberal's of this era do. Hope in the Tibetan language means both despair and our version of hope. The only thing these so called liberal progressive could do once elected is to confront and say no way to the rotten Third Way poser's. There are no positive victories in compromise or democratic rule when there is no loyal opposition to the powers that be either Democratic or Republican. I will vote for him in the primary but it's such a waste and such a kabuki show and it pisses me off. I still have no choice regardless of the 'hope' Bernie and Warren offer as breath of fresh air. It's all filtered through the fog of our current fucked up so called inevitable reality.
Good question.
I honestly have no answer. Caught this on The Real News Network's YouTube channel last night (during my many bouts with insomnia). A pretty good debate on whether Sanders should have run as a Dem or Independent.
thx for this cybrestrike
I come down on the side of Independent.
Perhaps I'll change my mind after I watch the video.
But I am supporting him as a Democrat, for now.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
interesting ... but as soon as supposed mass movement
turns in an alternative party, it can't be elected and win in the current electoral system. Usually that means the 99 percent must have such a miserable life that you get that "pitchfork" coup-style of revolution that isn't "peaceful" or "non-violent". I guess no-one will say out loud that they support that. And if it happens, who knows what horrible thing will come out of it. And then people will "give it another try" with a Sanders guy, I guess.
So confusing and frustrating, isn't it?
Not really confusing
any more to me. Frustrating, depressing and incomprehensible yes. What's confusing about a totally fucked up broken system that is owned lock stock and oil barrel by the global oligarchical collectivist's. Just wrap your mind around the fact that any semblance of democracy or the rule of law is nowhere to be found in the USA. It's not that hard to grasp. all you need to do is look at the reality we live under, rather then the long gone principles, structure and laws of a functioning democratic republic. The tragedy is that it is bi-partisan. There is only the one party state of global oligarchical collectivists. All the rest is nothing but kabuki to appease/deceive the masses into thinking that what's going on here and globally is somehow legitimate, inevitable or democratic. America is no longer a nation state where just part of the NWO that Clinton talked about. It is all everywhere part and parcel of Axelrod's 'World As find It' Inc.com. So strap on your Google glasses and embrace the suck. It's just too big to fail. snark is not that hard to grasp if you look at the so called reality we all live in with out the veneer the masters of the universe call the inevitable 'world as we find it'. It's their nightmare world and it's reality is death and destruction of humans and the planet we all share.
well, I wanted to end my comment in a mellow
and polite way. It was not confusing to me for some time, but I hesitated to talk about it, because I can't handle well the responses I knew I would get.
I don't remember anymore when I started to understand the "betrayal" parts of the Obama administration, but I think of a doing a little prokect for myself to go back in time and find out again.
Ashley Smith knocks it out of the park--wow! Thanks, CS! ;-)
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Excellent video
Thank you for linking this. It has given me a better understanding of Al's position. Ashley Smith made a terrific argument.
Do I hear the sound of guillotines being constructed?
“Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable." ~ President John F. Kennedy
Rand Paul gets it right
I really dislike Rand Paul, but on foreign policy he is spot on.
It's amazing that I find myself having more in common with a GOP candidate than a leading Democratic candidate about anything, much less two things....and then he says this.
I agree completely.
But, of course, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Never be deceived that the rich will allow you to vote away their wealth.-Lucy Parsons
Is it?
broken from the bi-partisan pols of mass deceptions viewpoint? No they have us where they want us both so called left and right. If it comes down to Hillary vs. Rand Paul i just might vote for him. How strange to have to measure psycho's that vary slightly on certain faked up partisan divides or issues. That will not happen however as the inevitable candidates both sides are going to end up being a Clinton vs. a Bush even if the Repug isn't named Jeb Bush. None of the clocks work as the Vandal's stole the handles and the internal mechanisms of all clocks have long ago frozen from accumulated gunk or digitized themselves into meaningless binary interpretations of time itself.
Sorry too much Dr. Who on my part. Time and clocks are an illusion a dangerous one at that. Humans seem able to revise time via their own peculiar egocentric reading of known history. Stopped clocks are not right two times a day if you consider what the fuck they have done to time past, now and future. Just my take on stopped 2 times a day clocks. They are a human invention that operates on our own perception of the importance of watch works. A skewed perspective of what time really is.
The fact that time is measured by the birth of Christ or Mohammed or even the revolutions of the planet in hours just has no bearing on what pols of mass deception say in 2015 AD. none of them including Rand Paul or Hillary or any freaking opportunist with power a stopped watch. They are timeless as far as human history goes. They will always be with us as we help construct them and giver them power and consider them in in the illusion of our time. There not they are the same old plague people have always had to deal with. They all are in reverse which is not stopped time but definitely not moving in a forward position. If only we could stop their clock.
If that's all that he'd do to Social Security, it's
much less than the Democratic appointed Bowles-Simpson Fiscal Commission's proposals. Both Ron and Rand Paul have said that they would shield "near-seniors," ages 55 and older. Democrats don't even make this concession.
Unless Democrats stop pushing the privatization of our public school system, I can't say that it really matters that much. Charter Schools are private schools funded with public monies, and administered the same as a private/church school. In the final analysis, I don't see, nor do my educator relatives, much difference between them, and issuing school vouchers. (To make it clear, I'm in favor of neither.) All but one have retired--partly due to this Administration's destructive education policies under Arne Duncan.
The state of TN won the first contest known as the "Race To The Top." More than 1/2 Billion Dollars ($501 million) has gone to destroy the public school system. One the largest churches in the state adjoins a property of ours--from the time the ink dried on that award, the new school has gone from what appeared to be about 15-20 students, to at least several hundred (3-4 years). (It is supposedly mainstream Baptist, but I once listened to a podcast of a sermon, and it scared me--and I'm affiliated with the left-leaning Unitarian-Universalist faith, so I'm not a total secularist.)
Even so, I want to see a bright red line between Church and State. But that ended with President Clinton's signing of John Ashscroft's "Charitable Choice" Amendment--the forerunner of Bush's Faith Based Initiative, which PBO has greatly expanded.
[I posted a WaPo piece on this at DKos about two years ago--it even had a picture of PBO behind a Church podium.]
What we have today, is "the Democrats out-Republicaning the Republicans," on so many issues. They are just more discreet about it.
IMO, the only way to salvage our Social Safety Net, or our educational systems, is to form a real (radical) left third Party. Not sure how to go about it, but I see no other viable solution to facing the daunting challenges that we face as a Nation.
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
My wife has some clutter based decorating sensibilities
Whenever she pitches and idea and I respond, "Sure, I am going to put up the Hendrix black light poster". it is understood to mean "No".
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
MB diary, look at the oddfellow reccing.
But the primary reason I wouldn't rec a diary like that is because of the asinine assumption that we live in a democracy.
I've been told by others when I rant about the fact that we don't live in a democracy that everybody knows that. It's like that
Geico commercial. "Everybody knows that". Well, then why does "everybody" keep saying it's so?
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2015/05/27/1388205/-Big-media-s-sneering-d...
It's a well known
illogical talking point of denial that is used to rationalize and dismiss the shape we're in democratically speaking. We've always been at war with Eurasia, the founders we're racist male pigs and FDR was a righty, like it makes our present full on fascistic reality somehow okay. What I don't understand is how they can get so riled up about our partisan bogus elections and yet claim that this was never a representational democratic republic. They seem unable to separate the partisan politics of persona and party from flawed but useable structure, system and rule of law.
Another diary subject. Chicken or the egg?
"If you don't eat your meat, you can't have any pudding. How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?"
If the system prevents any ideals from being implemented, does that mean we can never talk about or aspire toward those ideals?
It's the "this is the cards we're dealt" thing. Fuck the cards, throw them back and get new ones.
Cards are useless
We are not even in the game. We need general strikes and mass protests. If the 1% is going to impoverish us anyway, why do their bidding. Call the complicit what they are, scabs. And the police what they are, the 1% enforcement core. For what? Crumbs?
The individual has always had to struggle to keep from being overwhelmed by the tribe. If you try it, you will be lonely often, and sometimes frightened. But no price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself. - Friedrich Nietzsche -
what good is a public debate
in a primary campaign when the so called liberal candidate 'the owners of the place' are allowing to enter the official race is simply a sop to the democratic wing and the growing national populist dissent and resentment. Does Bernie think really Hillary is going to 'move to the left' because he get up and talks about real issues? I go around and around on this. If he was a serious candidate why didn't he run as an indie? Because it would siphon votes away from the Dems. and the evil would win? lol. I think he's just a bread and click bait to get people to think that the electoral system is not rigged. So we have this big national debate instigated by Bernie and it brings back enthusiasm for voting Democratic.
Then what we crown the inevitable one who will make populist noises during the election and then turn the screws up another notch. Kind of pisses me off that he would lend himself to such a faked up wreslin match. It's sad to see decent ordinary people get caught up in this political farce which has nothing to do with democratic representation. If he was really a threat to the new Democratic Third Way they would take him out as fast as Howard Deans scream lasted. At this point anybody that caucuses with the outrageously corrupt and anti-democratic Democrat's is nobody I trust or believe has any intention of fighting for the common good or the rule of law.
Jill Stein was hauled off for even trying to attend the debates in the 2012 election. At this point keeping the Democratic party alive and the only alternative seems a a cruel deception on Bernie's part. Why would he do this if he believes what he says? It's kind of insulting given that he's running under the banner of a party full of psychotic war criminals and viscous savvy businessmen that mean us all harm. My two cents about Bernie taking it to the streets bs. Perhaps we will have to get to the point of Greece or Spain before people stop thinking that we have no choice but to keep the Republicans at bay. This is to me just more outrageous kabuki and I am done consenting to it. Bernie doesn't want to split the party he want's to get voters to rally and vote for the lesser evil he enables.
to the point of Greece or Spain?
I would think Greece and Spain are better off - system wise - than the US is. At least their third parties can win or push their agenda in coalitions they force others to get into with them. Here in the US they can't. Different political systems. And the US electoral systems seems to me much worse.
Good point mimi
but still in our constitution there is no mention of political parties. So all this insane bs is not really built into our system. Too bad the rule of law or our sacred documents like the bill of rights have been over ridden and reinterpreted by kangaroo courts and the duly elected representatives we're told are our only choice.They mean the opposite of what was laid down by the flawed humans with power who declared independence and devised a system with check balances and a bill of rights. Instead of building on the limited enlightenment of so long ago they have managed to destroy any semblance to democratic governance and those pesky old universal human and civil rights. It took centuries of people fighting to implement them and they have managed to unravel them in a decade.
Where's my or yours habeas corpus? Posse Comitatus?
Where are our all basic universal rights both human and civil? They are gone daddy gone. They took them away because they we're tools that the CIA and assorted spooks and bloody global fascists needed to make life on earth a nightmare for both people and the planet itself. This is not progress it is what humans from the beginning of time have had to fight against in order not to live in hell on earth. So sick that the US claims it's a dangerous world and we need to protect our mad inevitable 'world as we find it'.
You've nailed it, Shaz. And he said as much to George
Stephanopoulous earlier this month on This Week:
He couldn't have been more plain--he does not want to be a spoiler, preventing any Democratic nominee from winning the General Election. [On occasion, he gives the Nader example.]
Mollie
"Every time I lose a dog, he takes a piece of my heart. Every new dog gifts me with a piece of his. Someday, my heart will be total dog, and maybe then I will be just as generous, loving, and forgiving." --Author Unknown
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.
Agree with GG, and also speaking for myself,
please, when I present transcript, video, or post that points out deficiencies of Senator Sanders, do not conflate that with me indicating that I don't think that he has a right to run, or to air his views, etc. Nor does it that mean that I think that he is less than honest, because I may have a difference of opinion with him, on some issues.
It is my perception that I am considerably to his left (ideologically). I cannot be happy with any neoliberal solutions, some of which are endorsed by both the Dem Party Establishment and by the Senator. Regardless, my differences with him are not in any way personal.
Mr M and I don't even look at politicians in a personal light--with the exception of a handful of personal failings which could make a politician vulnerable to blackmail. Otherwise, we could care less what they do.
We care about "one" thing--do you agree with us on policy. Pure and simple.
The rest, I'll leave to others to hash out.
Mollie
Postscript: Once Family has departed, I have some excellent pieces to post about the potential effects of the Senator's run--both good and ill. I'm occasionally back at my old stomping ground (ZMag/ZComm), and honestly, I'm really finding it constructive/informative. Of course, there are the usual Dem Party suspects, but there are many writers who are academics, and truly are mostly interested in policy--not political parties. I look forward to sharing a few of those posts, here.
Everyone thinks they have the best dog, and none of them are wrong.